How to Find the Property Lines of Any Home (Version 3)
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- In this video, I will show users how to find their property lines.
I will compare 3 applications (LandGlide, OnX App, ReGRID) known for helping users/homeowners find their property lines. Then, I will compare my measurements to the measurements of a licensed land surveyor.
Then we can determine which application is the most accurate to the exact measurements of a real land surveyor and know once and for all if these applications can be used to reliably locate property lines.
Disclaimer: If you are buying/selling land/property ALWAYS hire and pay a land surveyor to get them exact. This video is meant to aid neighbors with minor disputes, who don't want to spend much money to solve. Smiles from here.😊
What I used to locate the exact property lines of this home:
1. LandGlide: landglide.com/
2.OnX: www.onxmaps.com/hunt/blog/how...
3. ReGRID: regrid.com/
For other videos in this series:
How To Find Property Lines (Version 2)
• How To Find The Proper...
How To Find Property Lines (Version 4)
• How to Find the Proper...
I am licensed land surveyor with 37 years experience. This guy is going to create a lot of work for surveyors. Lol
Hi Guider. In every video I either pay for a survey or reference getting one. There is a common theme on this Channel that Surveyors are perfect, and every year I read at least 10 Survey's with multiple errors on them. No one is perfect. So I think it's good for consumers to have many options.
And headaches and unnecessary expenses for landowners… Owners, you are dealing with what may be your largest investment. Do no trust an app to identify the boundaries. Hire a professional land surveyor.
My thought exactly. If the linework on these apps comes from a county GIS (and where else would it come from?), then it is unreliable and prone to errors. Speaking from 35 yrs of experience. That said, the app may get you close enough to start looking with a metal detector and shovel. Even that does not prove the location of a found marker in relation to the adjoiners or subdivision it is part of.
I have personally surveyed , start to finish, over 11,000 properties (tracts of land).
There are simply too many variables to make the survey process something the non surveyor can do.
This is why a four year degree and four years of experience are required to be eligible to take the two 8 hours exams you must pass in order to be licensed.
....but....if people want to do it themselves, have at it.
Used Landglide in North Georgia. It was off by 75 feet in east-west direction based upon a survey. The survey found original pipe markers within inches of where they were supposed to be.
Sorry to hear that Nate. Sounds like the County where you live may or may not have a GIS mapping Department. Landglide and other Apps like it, get their parcel data from the 3,000+ Counties. And sadly when the County data is bad, so are the Apps.
@@MarkTheRealtor yes. The county data was pretty far off as well. The lot is still usable but will cost me a second perc test.
@@natehendricksen3338 Sorry to hear that Nate. Thank you for participating in this content.
@@MarkTheRealtor You sound good, the Videography as in Photographic Editing is Certainly a pleasure to watch.
But as much as possible a producer has to be Accurate, and Not loose w/ their words.
The last that I heard is that there are 192 Nations on the earth.
@@Crayfish- Thank you for the feedback Crayfish.
Great video and love the enthusiasm. As the new owner of an older acreage with no residential neighbours but one large commercial one, this is great information.
Awesome, thanks snazzy for the high five
Fun video to watch. Thanks for all the effort and having it surveyed also.
Glad you enjoyed it!
For individuals/consumers. The key here is living in a county that has the surveys or Platts on record. The satellite images can be off and giving a false boundary line. Best option is an old fashioned survey made by a reputable company.
Correct Lisa. When consumers decide it's worth over $1,000 and 3 weeks of their time, getting a Survey is usually the best way to go.
@MarkTheRealtor Better than a lawsuit. Hopefully, folks don't follow your advice.
@@claytond6898 You mean, this advice? "Disclaimer: If you are buying/selling land/property ALWAYS hire and pay a land surveyor to get them exact."
True that. My lot isn't your standard rectangular shape and I've always questioned the plot diagrams that are available online since it shows I own my neighbors whole front driveway. I suspect for most homeowners, they wouldn't have the same issue i have because of my odd lot shape. I finally went down to city hall after watching this and pulled the property lines they had on record and did the overlay as described here. They were way different than the online crud. They said the GIS maps available online may be a little off and were they. Off by over 20 feet. I was lucky enough that my neighbor on the backside had his lot surveyed when i moved in 15 years ago. Hence I was able to locate my 2 back corners accurately and then overlay the city plot map over this. As it turns out I do own a bit of my neighbors front driveway, but only about 1ft and not 10 lol. All this being said, one concern I noticed after getting the original hand drawn lots from the city is that their plot drawings are off too...... I had to recreate all the plots of my house and my neighbors in CAD because something wasn't adding up right on one of the lengths of my property line. Sure enough, one of my property edges dimensions was noted what I have to say is wrong and off by 4ft. Not really sure if I hired a surveyor how they would figure out my boundaries if my plot map has the wrong dimensions on it....
Nice to know to solve a homeowners curiosity but no good for any dispute or planned work near a property line.
Yes, good point and well received.
So glad to find this. I am on an acre with a bare two acres of woods next to me which is now for sale. I want to use an app to see if I can find already marked survey pins or stakes and if not, mark my corners myself. Not concerned with exact accuracy but I have a feeling (since this area is part of a development), that corners will be marked. Thanks 👍
Thank you greatly for your time and information! This helps for many the GENERAL ideas of where their proper line is located.
Thank you for watching @sunoh.
appreciate your efforts , Thanks Mark : )
Two things: On fairly small lots like this a small margin of error does not change the size of the lot by a whole lot but that same margin of error on a larger lot can make a huge difference when it comes to taxes or building new structures, fences, etc. Second: when I bought my home I had one lot line in the center of a brook--easy. Two others were streets front and back with road center line set backs-once again easy. The north side lot line however was not a straight line but involved two 90 degree turns abutting two other properties. I wanted a two section stockade fence and a perennial garden that abutted both neighbors' properties. Luckily the surveyor that had last done the survey came by at no cost to me and showed me where the pins should have been as he had been the son of the former homeowner. The neighbor at the back of my property had built their garage and six inches of one corner (corner only) were on my land but we got along great so no big deal but it could have been a contentious issue.
Thank you Abbie for the comment. Well said.
@AbbieHoffmansGhost I can't believe that your neighbor was able to build a garage right up to the edge (and beyond on that one corner) of his boundary lines! I guess there were no setback restrictions in his county, or setback reqt's with his building code people??
@@kebo57 Thanks Abbie for participating.
Not sure when the garage was built but I bought the adjoining house and property in 1981 and it was in central N.H. and our town had some very sketchy town government which is probably why the town manager, a native of that town, went to the state prison for, what they called, misappropriation of funds. @@kebo57
Water over the damn now. My wife and I divorced and sold the house and the neighbor died. @@dchall8
Just bought 21 acres, I’m gonna try these apps- thank you
Yes, excellent. If it is a very rural area, hopefully your County's GIS Mapping Dept has done a good job with the parcel maps too.
our county has plats available on line. i took the gps coordinates and put them in my hand held gps and walked the approximate line and got a good idea where my corners were. i have 3 acres, mostly wooded in southern maryland. thanks for the video.
That is awesome TRCass. Good work.
good fences make good neighbors. I have a friend who has a nosy neighbor who, also, doesn't know where the property line is. He is now getting a fence to deal with the neighbor "problem"
Thanks Meaty for sharing.
I am amazed at the inaccuracies of the apps. PERIOD !!!
Hi Victory. Before the Apps people would wonder and argue because they would not know with 20'-30'. With the Apps if they know within 3' then to most, that is much better. The two choices before was either 1. Not Knowing or 2. Hiring a surveyor for over $1,000. Now there is a 3rd choice.
@@MarkTheRealtorActually sounds like a different version of not knowing.
@@TexasVernon Okay Vernon. Sounds like 3' of accuracy is "not knowing". So you would be a perfect person to order a survey and pay nearly $2,000 for that last 3' of "knowing". For those who want "absolute" a Survey is usually, not always, your best option.
3' is actually pretty good for a "free" app. Keep in mind that gps is mostly used by cities to know which side of the street their water line is or to find closest fire hydrant in case of a fire. Our expensive surveying equipment get us within half an inch. People have literally been killed for flying on restricted areas before the US government decided to give our gps signals for free in the 90's. We (U.S. taxpayers) pay about 2 millions dollars per day for GPS which is available for free to the entire world.
@@MarkTheRealtorthat’s ridiculous. A survey is always the best option, aside from just having an unreliable idea of where your corners are. Surveyors are the only one licensed to tell you where you property is. Realtors are not
Thank you for posting this info. My neighbor started hinting that the fence was almost 4' onto his property, based on where the water shut off valves were. I asked the water dept. but they said that they placed them as such for their benefit/convinience and it had nothing to do with the property line. I asked my neighbor how long fence had been up. I only lived there for 20yrs. He answered that fence had been there for 30yrs. When I asked who put up fence he answered "We did". He hasn't said anything for the last few yrs, but it will be good to use these apps before we have to spend the big money to find out.
Great comment Ralphae. Hope it works out smoothly.
@@MarkTheRealtor thank you, so do I.
Hey Mark, Thank You!!!
This was fantastic!!!!!
Thanks 123. This video took some effort.
I don't know about other states, however I'd start at the local Probate Court. In my state every property plot plan aka lot map has to be recorded when it is created. If the lot changes hands it needs to recorded with the town or city. A word to the wise. There are three common markers used as corner markers or when a property line changes direction. The most common is either a steel rod or pipe driven in the ground. Normally they stick up six or more inches.Second is a Granit post about four inches square and has a hole drilled in the top. Third is a hole in a rock. Note that bounds markers can be lost or covered. I was working for a surveyor and we couldn't find a bound marker. Finally I used a metal detector and found it buried down 18" down. Drill holes in a rock in a stone wall can be fun.
Good points Canopus. Well received and thank your for sharing.
I've seen heavy steel angles used as corner markers.
Hire a pro! Period
@@Sevendeucegroup For everyone reading this, SevenDeuceGroup wants everyone to go spend $1,000 on a survey. Even if you want to know where to rake your leaves. Is that a smart decision?
@@Sevendeucegroup Professionals can cost thousands and take many months to get to your site. Depends on how many surveyors are available in your area and how busy they are... The size and makeup of your property, such as how easy it is to walk the lines and how many men they need to do the work... A very large expense... Even if you find out, then you might need to sue your neighbors if they have encroached or built on your property. Even then, if they have been using your property for a number of years, even if you didn't know about it, your SOL ... No matter what the deed says... Fighting any of this adds many thousands to the cost... That's why people generally go by existing fence lines...
Before we got our fence replaced, we called around for a survey. It was going to be close to 5k for the survey (San Francisco Bay Area + poor historical records and no corner pins) and all the companies advised against it unless we had a true property dispute or were building an ADU.
It’s kind of interesting to see the differing perspectives from surveyors. Surveyors in our area can’t be bothered to do such a trivial task.
Hi Cody. I order, pay, and review 60 survey's a year. 6-10 of those survey's are wrong. I mean, dead wrong. It's been difficult to get any type of post-survey communication, with Surveyor's. And when I do, the survey problems are always someone else's fault. And in every video I discuss how survey's are the most accurate resource. Thanks for opening up to us.
@@MarkTheRealtoryou should turn in those surveyors to the state board. Submit a formal complaint.
@@caasinauj I would never submit a formal complaint against a surveyor. They are very important. AND, I think home owners have the rights to know where their approximate boundaries are located. BOTH.
Hi Mark, thank you very much for sharing the information. I found it quite interesting as Even with professional surveyors quite often, you come up with different corners.
I review 60 surveys a year and 10% are often wrong in someway. And, being transparent, Surveyors are usually quite accurate.
My conclusion: the accuracy of the app is dependent on random facotrs that affect the GPS accuracy of the phone, and that will vary with time. The surveyor equipment uses RTK to improve GNSS accuracy. Location correction data can also be applied via post-processing with data from various sources.
Hi Bill. The accuracy of these Apps is also highly dependent upon the GIS Mapping Dept for your County. The Apps also tend to be more accurate in flat areas rather than hilly ones.
I'll bet that if these tests were repeated the flags for each app would vary depending on time of day,
satellite position, the particular gps chip in the phone and a whole host of other factors. So bottom
line is there's really no difference between these apps apart from the user interface.
@@robertmontgomery3892 Oh, good idea for a future video. Thanks Robert.
You also need to understand that GPS accuracy on phones is only good for +/- 5 meters at best and even survey grade GPS units need to "bake" in a spot for hours to get a true GPS reading. I think the takeaway with your video is to show that the apps get you in a good "ballpark" of the area.
Much appreciated Mark! Looking forward to the next episode on property lines! ⭐
Thank you Sidha. More to come!
Amazed at the apps accuracy, all what you need from her is a good metal detector. thank you
Good idea. Yes. Use the Apps to often get very close. Then use a metal detector under $50 to locate the pins underground.
You have no idea how helpful this is for us, thanks a bunch.
Thank you Wooley. This video did take some time to produce.
I would start by finding the GIS data for the specific county and call the GIS dept to tell you what accuracy they worked on. In the county where I lived they focused on within 2 feet in the platted areas and much less accuracy in rural areas. In some locations legal descriptions are drawn, don't fit together due to various reasons, therefore forced to fit on the GIS map. GIS doesn't replace a survey. Each surveyor has their own opinion depending the equipment they are using, data provided, official documented information and etc. GIS is great to give you and idea of the overall layout.
Hi BR. Thanks for the comment. The County GIS data can either be accurate or sadly very inaccurate. Then once you get the County Data on paper or screen shot, how do people know where they are out in the field? These Apps have a colored dot which represents their GPS location. Which I think is the key. GIS without GPS usually is hard to decipher out in the field.
“Within 2 feet”? That’s a pretty lenient tolerance. The surveyors I’ve worked with typically pin property corners to within about a tenth of a foot and building corners to a couple hundredths.
@@racker7855 He clearly stated in the video that a professional survey was required for action on structures, landscaping changes, fences, etc. These apps are reviewed as useful tools to help landowners have a reasonably good idea about their property boundaries with the use of county GIS data. Depending on there needs each can decide to seek professional surveys. This is your second denigrating comment that hasn't added to the conversation. What's up?
@@lindahathaway3519
He is a pro surveyor that's going to lose money due to videos like this, that's what I suspect. I know that I will not pay a surveyor thousands of dollars and wait weeks/months unless absolutely necessary.
When I bought my home I received a surveyed plat map, which not only showed the corner locations, it located my home and detached garage relative to the property lines, making possible to take a steel tape and locate the boundaries between my home and my neighbors. Our community requires that fences be located no closer than 12" from the property line.
Thanks for sharing
That's ridiculous. By that reasoning, if you want to put up a fence and your neighbor wants to put up a fence there must be TWO FEET between the fences??? It makes more sense to share the fence.
WHY WOULD THEY BOTH PUT UP A FENCE ILLOGICAL ?@@kennethhalleck4279
What happens to that 12" of land?
@@CelticYeil IT's a measurement error. Nothing happens and property lines will not be adjusted because of it.
Thank You Sir.... Very informative Video 😊
Thanks David for watching that. It was a little longer than I wanted.
It’s fine for approximately identifying where your property corners are but certainly wouldn’t rely on it to build fences or something like that. I have seen that same data you are using off over 200’ in some areas. The data the apps used are all sourced from the same place so the differences you are seeing is just the phones accuracy.
Good points Donald. Well received.
"but certainly wouldn’t rely on it to build fences or something like that."
Well,like in my case using GPS and the county assessor's map which has a measuring tool, and google maps I found my corners and lines pretty accurately, even if it was off 3 feet, I'd put a fence like 2 feet further back on my property to be sure
I get along with my neighbors just fine. But at the end of the day it all boils down to this. You stay on your side and I will stay on my side. Do this and we will continue to get along just fine.
I like that Ozzie. Thank you for the positive comment.
Great job. I will follow you for sure.
Thank you David. More coming soon.
my neighbors shed is built on the other neighbors property!!! ReGRID is awesome!
Thank you Hundred. I too use it everyday and in my area is very accurate.
If it becomes a legal issue, best to have an official survey. If really critical, maybe two different survey companies. Or have them repeat. Always ask for latest calibration date.
Good points Tim. Well received.
This may not apply in all cases, but, if you have access to a metal detector, you can easily locate existing metal stakes at perceived property corners. Of course this applies to older established properties where visual boundaries are apparent.
Yes, Bobby. Correct. This video is Version 3. If you have time look up Version 2 of this video and I did demonstrate how to do that. Hope it helps.
Finding a metal stake does not mean it's your corner. It takes much more than that to determine if it is your property corner.
@@racker7855 I was referring to Version 2 of this video. I found 4 pins and they were confirmed to be Lot corners.
@@tumadre50 I was referring to Version 2 of this video. I found 4 metal pins and they were all Survey confirmed to be the actual lot corners.
Well, if it's right within a couple or three feet near the EXPECTED corner and there's nothing else around it, it's fair to say thats the CORNER pin. @@tumadre50
The music is perfect!
Thanks for the note JD.
Great report!
We need more bees in our community too.
I think the results would have been a lot better if you would have taken a minute at each corner for the dot to stop wandering before placing your flags. Every one of them were still drifting around, so letting it settle and even making adjustments would have drastically improved the results. Also with as big as the dot is, you had the outside edge of the dot (if at all) come near the crossing and placed a flag... should be center dot.
Very observant Liew and thanks for noticing. On the video I walked in, paused for only 2 seconds and walked out. In reality, off camera, I spent 10-mins at each corner with a tripod. YOU are right, slowing down really helped the results. Especially in the back corners next to that 20' tall concrete wall.
Advise for new owners: usually in new neighborhoods the lots will be plain clear to let anyone plant whatever trees and bushes they want. First mistake: NEVER mark or divide properties with hedges only. No matter if "my neighbor was ok with it", that may not be your same neighbor some years later. Properties should always be marked either by a GOOD fence or at least make permanent concrete markers that you can place down like tiles or bricks and can be easily identified. That's in case that you and your neighbor are the kind of people who like to see properties open as a big shared yard with no markings. They look nice that way, but can cause a ton of legal problems later. Then place YOUR hedge in YOUR property if you want one, so that you can prune it, take care of it, without any neighbor complaints.
Thank you for the note.
Over time those concrete markers will move. Especially in areas where the ground freezes and thaws annually.
@@cmerton Good points. IN our area we don't see many concrete markers.
we had markers in the concrete sidewalk & our new neighbors, who had a landscaping business (should have known better) decided that they would cut down a tree on my property & install a wall. His girlfriend was visiting & called the cops on ME weeding a garden 4 ' from the property line. Resulted in a lawyer, surveyor, etc. My husband & I got divorced within a year bc he blamed ME. NO one would listen to me that the markers were there-not even the cop.
@@lovly2cu725 Sorry to hear about those problems. Ugh. It is sad to me how many neighbors have issues with property lines. They are a source of big problems.
My property (in KCMO) is marked with round concrete markers, locations B & C mentioned in your video. A few years ago survey team came out to our neighborhood courtesy of the County, only to our side of the street.
Hi Lynn. Thanks for the note. That sound sounds great when the County gets involved with field accuracy for the benefit of all.
Very informative, thank you
Glad it was helpful! IN the next few days I am uploading a video on finding your property corners using GPS. Please look for it too.
I didn't have this property surveyed and later did have it surveyed. I found out that part of my driveway/parking lot was one foot over onto my neighbor's property. This was probably because the neighbor's house was built after mine and these were wooded lots. The contractor probably didn't pay much attention. I later had my driveway replaced and located the edge at my property line. I miss that extra foot, but ill gotten gain does not profit. A neighbor moved in behind me and had a fence built, but he didn't check the property line correctly and built on the neighbor's land. He had to have the fence moved.
Good points Q. Thanks for sharing.
Perhaps theses apps are good for “General” location of your property lines, in case you have no idea where your boundaries are. However, I wouldn’t recommend them for building, fence location or anything else.
Good points Steve. Not usually good for building a fence. Unless you want to keep the fence well within the property lines.
thanks, that was very helpful
Glad it helped
Thank you for the info mark
Thanks DanO
I use Hunt Stand when hunting (as opposed to OnX) and it also offers lot lines (along with property owner names). It's also very accurate.
Very interesting to see this in a real world application. One thing I noticed is that the averages are all roughly within 1 meter of accuracy, which is essentially what the GPS receiver in your phone is capable of. I'd be curious if you re-ran each test 2 or 3 times if you'd get the same results as the first time for each product or if they would also vary +/- 1 meter.
Hi Chad. Oh, I love OnX too. I have produced a video being released in 2 days on GPS and techniques to leverage its strengths. Hopefully RUclips will send it do you once there is a link.
yes this is good for a rough idea. Please do NOT down play the work and research that goes into a property survey. The deed and county maps have to be investigated. This is no DIY project...
Hi John. Good points for those interested in easements and encroachments. If someone purely wants an approximation of their property lines, then often they choose the Apps.
Thanks for the information😊
Thank you Paula J. Hope it helps.
Wow . I saw Kennelly road ‘ St Louis , Missouri’ ❤ thank you’
Thanks Gerge.
Cell phones normally have a GPS accuracy in the 1 meter range.
you should do a Triple Blind repeatability test.
Use the same app and After each walking and Marking of the property corners.
do the recalibration ( which normally is to wave the phone around in a figure 8 pattern )
then Walk the property line again, and remark the corners.
do this a third time to see how well the app / phone repeats to the same location.
Good idea wyldanimal2. Appreciate the thought.
well this map data is never THAT accurate anyway
@@sebastianusami Hello Sebastian. The plat map data for your County comes from its own GIS Mapping Dept. Some Counties are very accurate while others, not so much. Sometimes the Apps are only as good as your Counties GIS Dept. Especially in some hilly regions, the maps can be less accurate.
Commercial cellphones do not have guaranteed 1 meter GPS accuracy. It varies with latitude. Accuracy is further reduced without announcement during times of heightened national security alerts, done by having the members of a satellite constellation offset their signal by differing amounts from the fixed time base. It's also possible to bias a location by rebroadcasting some signals at a stronger level.
@@MarkTheRealtor right, so you cant count on them.
How to find property lines? Hire a surveyor. Simple solution.This is the legal way to resolve disputes. Try using your app in court..dah😮😊
Correct Jer for anything Legal, hire a Surveyor. For EVERYTHING not legal, use the Apps.
great video, very helpful.
Thank you VVT for watching and understanding. Many watch 2 mins of it, get offended, and fire back.
Thank you Mark!
Thanks Ron for watching. Cheers.
To recommend to anyone on ways to “find your property corners” other than calling a Land Surveyor is reckless.
Hi Matthew. So I wanted to know where my side property line was so I could put my trash cans out by the street in my yard. Would you suggest I call a surveyor so I know where to put my trash cans? Matthew, I want to know approximately where my property line is so I know where to cut my grass. Would you suggest I call a surveyor? Sure, surveyors are accurate but at $1,280 and waiting 3 weeks for results is not always the best solution.
@@MarkTheRealtor I have been called out to do surveys over the very scenarios you have mentioned, after the fact. And I can tell you that when its all said and done, survey fees, attorney's letters back and forth, etc. it's way more than $1,280.. Not to mention when you and that neighbor meet at the mail box or happen to be picking up the morning newspaper in the driveway at the same time you don't even speak because your pissed off at each other.
Thank you so much for taking your time to explain and give very useful information.
Thank you Luis for watching this content.
There is no substitute for a survey, especially before closing on a property. I would never buy ANY property without property points decisively defined and defendable by law.
Yes, Abiseid. As said in nearly every video and description I produce. These tools are not for a land purchase, they are for pre-purchase evaluation. They are also helpful to current property owners who are not transacting a parcel of real estate.
Love your vest.
and your music.
Thanks Mark
Helpful video, but only for limited situations. I'd hesitate to use them for placing a fence.
It would be interesting to see the results if you were to repeat the walk around with each app, maybe from different directions, at different times, and collect data on the "repeatability" of the results for each app.
In my case, I live on a corner lot. The back of my property line, is the side of my neighbor's property (absentee owner's who rent the house out).
That side of their house is only approximately 4' from the property line, and the back of my house is approximately 20' from the property line.
We'd love to DIY install a 6' high vinyl privacy fence. Have asked for the property owner's permission and sharing the cost. Their reply was that they would not share the cost, and they were okay with the fence as long as a survey was performed.
With the tight space we are dealing with, we need to place the fence exactly on the property line, or we will be sacrificing precious real estate.
Local Surveyors want about $2,600 to stake the line, which is almost equal to the cost of the fencing materials! I have crawled using a metal detector and poking the ground with a spade trying to find a marker pin. At best I've found a heap of bottle caps.
Great note John. Very well said.
The survey costs what it does since there's time and effort into it. We can't just find two monuments and automatically stake a line between them. We have to research, to make sure the subject lot and adjoiners' fit together without conflict - or in the case of conflict, try to resolve it. Take field measurements to see how the field locations fit with the plan/deed calls. Along with that is the liability - so we need to be sure that we're right
So, as we say, it's not necessarily staking the line that costs so much, but figuring out where to stake it.
Sometimes it is the staking, though, on large acreage lots, and can get into the 10's of thousands of dollars
I do find it funny that you and others look to compare survey costs with fence or other costs. When land was cheap, I guess - but now, if you have a $300k-500k property, it sounds a bit foolish to not know what you own, and that $2600 is too expensive to find out what you actually bought for that kind of money
Bravo! Well-made and good intentioned. And useful too!
Thank you Trent. In a sea of judgement and anger, your comment is well received.
I don't think it's accurate to say that an app which marks a corner '3 feet off' on a 300 foot property is *99% accurate.* Three feet is HUGE when it comes to real estate. It might be more appropriate to say that an app *has a variance of plus/minus 3 feet* ( or "an accuracy of +/- 3 feet"). The *total* property width/length has nothing to do with accuracy, so *percentage* would not apply. Otherwise that would be like saying _"the app marked the rear west corner of the building only 3 feet off - whereas it could've marked that same corner as the front west corner which is 300 feet away."_
Another reasoning as to why percentage would not apply: The pinpointing accuracy of the app is based on the accuracy of the technology - i.e., the GPS system. As such, if the app was trying to locate a corner of a 50 foot long property, it might be off by 3 feet - which is *6%.* Likewise, if the app was trying to locate a corner of a 300 foot long property, it might be off by the same 3 feet (since it's the same technology), but that same 3 feet would be *1%* off on that 300 foot property. Obviously, that's not a good way to tabulate the results. Yep, I'd use "plus or minus 3 feet", or whatever distance your tests demonstrated.
That is a good point Gatsby. Well received.
Thanks for thar well reasoned reality check
Correct!
"The total property width/length has nothing to do with accuracy." Exactly. We're trying to locate a specific point whose location is not based on its relationship to any other point.
great info thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Great job thanks god bless
Thank you John R. I hope this helps.
Please start your video with the warnings that these methods you suggest are VERY approximate. Using GIS maps to locate property corners is not reliable. Let alone relying on the GPS on your phone. If someone needs their boundaries marked, use a licensed land surveyor to find and/or set the corner monuments. People can be very passionate about boundarry lines. Don't rely on faulty information.
In every video I say that. And it's in the description. In this video I even hired a Professional survey team as an accuracy datum. Hey "User" did you even watch this whole video?
😂 he is trying to save homeowners money because city and states ripping people off.
Who else busted out laughing when he said "on a mobile device, with 3 apps" 😂😂 not to mention that the parcel data is typically used for tax purposes only and does not include property gaps, gores, ect. Parcel data, does not replace deed research. Mark, if you ever worked under a surveyor, you would realize why this is bad advice. To any readers, if your looking to sell a house, talk to a realator. If you want to know where your property lines are, talk to a surveyor.
Hi Hayden. I have actually worked for a Surveying Company. And please consider how to spell the word "Realator" before offering your expertise to the community of home-owners.
@@MarkTheRealtorand while we’re at it, we could mention that it’s etc. …not ect….😉😆
@@cynthiadebeau4230 Well there we have it. Now I'm corrected.
@@MarkTheRealtor❤ 😊👍🏻 ... lol
@@MarkTheRealtorAnd your (you’re) is also misspelled! 😊
Never expected to sub to a channel like this but your logic is outstanding! Plus Im a homeowner!
Hi Mary. Thanks for the note. Yes, homeowners who care about their property, are good at learning about it. Smiles.
Great video. The only thing I would suggest is getting 3 measurements from each point from each app and record the averages. GPS is an awesome tool, but it's not perfect.
Great tip Joe. Thank you for the idea.
Use a surveyor. A licensed guy like me. Each state and county have different laws and practices. So get a local guy who knows the area. You may pay a bit more than an app. But you will have 1000 times more certainty of the correct position between you and your neighbor's adjoining line.
This guy is not informed. He may know real estate; not legal land status.
It's just the truth.
Great advice SLH. Yes, get a surveyor. Since you are informing consumers, then advise them on who is going to pay for it? Surveyors have written me back over 500 times in the last year "Get A Surveyor, this guys an idiot". Okay, who is going to pay $1,000 and wait 3 weeks for an official survey? If Survey's are so great they why will only 20% of all home buyers order and pay for a survey?
You are giving bad advice to propery owners. I'm glad you hired a professional surveyor as part of your report. A Surveyor is the only person who can legally locate property corners. You stated that the apps got you to 90 percent+/_. That's great. Expect some of the corners were over 3 feet. That is what causes disputes and problems with neighbors. If a person uses one of these apps
and builds a fence 3 feet off their property on to the neighbor's not only does it cause issues between the neighbor's it causes lawsuits, snd tension. If the fence is in the wrong location, the property owner will have to remove the fence at their own expense. The reason a survey costs what it does is because the surveyor must research the property records and history to make sure the corners are placed in the correct location. It will cost a property owner a lot more money to remove a fence, house, or garage after it is built in the wrong location. Am app is great for approximation, but don't use to build anything. Thank you.
Hi Jim. Some good points here. In nearly every video I recommend hiring a surveyor. And on every video viewers comment back saying "You're giving bad advice, get a Surveyor".
Some governments give pretty decent property maps. The King County Parcel viewer for King County WA does a pretty decent job of giving that top level view. It doesn't locate corners but you will have a good aerial view of your property laid out with property lines.
Hi Nick. I agree 100% with your comments, but there are a group of people commenting on this channel that believe you can even rake leaves in your yard with getting a survey first.
We had two surveyors - looked at the old boundaries agreed by the locals and previous owners and neighbours - and the land register company. We ended up with at least three different shapes and lengths and area M2.
Thank you for sharing Stephen. Yes, it can be a mess. Sorry to hear about all that.
Very, very good video. I hope that my Onx off-road app has the same capability. Last year I called a company to survey one property line in dispute. They said they only do the entire lot, and the cost to a residential property would be $1200. The accuracy that you obtained would be sufficient for me. Thanks.
Thank you H for the positive feedback.
I bought a house and wanted to put a fence between me and my neighbor. They had a vicious dog that was only restrained by an “electronic” fence. (A buried wire that activated the dog’s collar.) A friend was a surveyor and he found the corner pins for free. He used his transit equipment but a metal detector is very helpful. I put the fence in and also l learned that the buried wire was three feet inside my property.
Great points Tx. Metal detectors can be a big help. If the pins are already in the ground.
I like looking for corners in the woods. Three hash marks on a tree. Sometimes on the rocky hill side it says a pile of rocks or going way back to the warranty Deeds or the original land grants they say this tree or that creek. One in Luisiana it was a grant from the king to the family. They never subdivided it or ever got a loan for the property.
Oh no Brett. That does sound like a mess. Sorry to hear that.
Mark. what were the metal post shown in the video supposed to be marking?
Hi Patrick. Very observant. There were some tall metal post the owner put up to keep the neighbor off their property during construction. A few others were holding up trees that were leaning. The owner got them from the hardware store and hammered them into the ground.
I just "liked" for the HP-41C over the shoulder... still have my CV from '85!
Oh Cynthia. Yes, very observant. At the time the best device in the market.
@@MarkTheRealtor Indeed. I have several HP RPN calculators now, and I still use them! I just wish HP still catered to that market.
@@Cynthia_Cantrell Oh me too. Yes, Reverse Pol Notation. No "equals" sign. I miss those days too Cynthia.
Perfect solution to map out ATV trails on my 30 acre forested ranch without encroaching on my neighbors land. Even though they wouldn't care if I did clear a few feet of their underbrush for them.
Great points Trevor. So fun.
I'm all for hiring a licensed surveyor. In fact I did. It turned out one my neighbors had as well about a year before I had bought my property. The odd thing is the corners between us (that we should share) are apparently not in the same place. There is now a whole mess about which one is correct, even though both are certified (on one corner they overlap and the other end there is a gap) .
Again this year I will review over 60 survey's and 6 of them will have errors or something incomplete about them. And to be fair, often it's not the Surveyors fault, it's a problem with the Title or how some easement was recorded incorrectly. Garbage in .....Garbage out.
another problem sometimes is that someone wrote a boxed number or the one who wrote the deed transcribed the numbers wrong. another problem is that it could be 2 separate subdivisions and they overlap where they come together. another problem I've come across is a shortage in the subdivision that the last lot may say 100 foot frontage but may be short. The laws in the state relative to land surveying shall govern how to deal with these problems.@@MarkTheRealtor
@@costafamily4941 Okay, makes sense. Thank you for sharing.
TYVM, Mark. We just purchased a home, and the neighbors are cutting down our trees. I'm definitely going to try this.
Yes, thank you. Sorry to hear that. I walked a lot yesterday where the neighbors widened their driveway by 15' because they thought their land went to the light pole. Oops.
@MarkTheRealtor I tried using Regrid but it wouldn't allow me to walk the property and show me the way. I did, however, obtain my lots measurements.
... and canceled my subscription
@@thesentimentalsoul3683 Glad it helped. Confirming I don't work for any of the App companies or get paid one penny by them.
really good video!!! I wonder if regrid "corner A" was actually 72". it was much closer on the other 3 corners
Thank Ukepa. There was an internet signal booster on the pole right over it. I think there was some interference sure. All of the reading were more accurate when I would stand there for 3-mins and let the GPS chip acclimate. But for the video I had to walk in frame, place the flag, and walk back out of frame in 15 seconds.
Hi Mark thank you for the valuable info I have one question I have a 5 acre parcel in st john arizona it is of grid I think my phone loses signal when I get real close to my property will I still be able to locate the corner boundaries wit regrid or any of the other apps and if not what do you think is available out there for people in my situation thank you and sorry that is 2 questions instead of 1
Good day Orlando. With Wifi at your house consider opening up LandGlide and getting all the maps connected in your device. Then when you go out into the field, the map should open, and the GPS satellites will take over the location of the blue dot. When you walk towards corners or boundaries, please take your time and let the location acclimate slowly off of GPS triangulation.
Almost every parcel has been surveyed at some point, with metal rods driven into the ground at corner points. Usually they do not stick up out of the ground. Rent or borrow a metal detector, then use one of these apps to decide where to look for the buried rods. This is usually very easy, since they are normally not any more than 6 inches underground. When you have a flat suburban lot, and can see each corner from the adjacent corners, all you need for determining the boundary line is some stakes and masonry twine. If it's hilly, then it gets a lot more complicated. You may need a surveyor to use other reference points and precise angles to set your line stakes.
Beware, though. I used a big survey company to do my parcel, and they sent somebody new who missed a corner by about 10 feet, on his first try. I had to get him back and point out the actual buried pin, so he could correct all the line stakes. If you can find your corner rods, that gives them known reference points.
Good points GuyG. Thank you for sharing. If you are interested my Property Lines video Version 2 demonstrates how to use a metal detector to locate those metal pins.
Was there a bell sound when you hit the corner as part of the programs?
Hi Herb. The sound effects come from a site called Pond5. They have 100's of sounds in there. Yay.
Thank you
Thank you Pete for watching.
For all the naysayers, this is a great starting point. You can flag approximate corners and go to a hardware store or check online for a metal detector and find a basic one for low cost. Now you have starting points to sweep and find your metal rods or badges (I work in a community that uses oversized metal coins/badges) in concrete at the marked corners. Owning a fencing company, it's been a very important process. And we never install fencing on the line unless there's a shared affidavit between neighbors. 4 inches inside the line if we do it or recommended 6 inches inside if you are a DIYer.
Good points Thomas. Well received.
Yep my grandpa moved his fence in 12 inches after neighbor refused to pitch in along there joining area took 60 years for papa to get revenge after they built a 3 car garage butted up to the fence he installed they were trying to divide and sale a portion of their property during that time city discovered the garage was on my papas property and they made them knock the garage down another friend did the job and said the home owner was just saying that fing my papas name shacking his head!! Papa got the last laugh didn’t get to see it but i sure love to tell the story and will always do as he did !!
@@caseG80 Hi Case. Sorry to hear about all this. It does sound like something a Full Boundary Survey would solve. It might be a bit expensive and likely worth it if they can solve the puzzle.
Looks like you can get within about 8 or 10 feet of the line or the corner point. Great help sure.
Thank you for doing it grayeagle. AND, the more I let the equipment acclimate, the more accurate it became.
Yay the most accurate one, Regrid, is from Detroit!
Correct, Detroit doing good work. Like LendingTree.
Really appreciate making this video. Helped me tremendously! Very informative!
Hi Steve. In a sea rude comments, yours stands out and I appreciate you.
I use OnX off road that I believe should have the same accuracy as OnX Hunt maps. My property does not have any cell phone coverage so I saved a square mile grid that included the property. I found that all 4 metal stakes on the 11 acre property were off approximately 15 feet the same direction. The property boundary stakes were installed in the late 1960's. Either OnX is off by 15 feet or the original stakes are off. My question is: When using OnX does saving a property ahead of time because no cell coverage affect accuracy?
Hi Jon. Not sure on the cell affect on accuracy. I do have a comment though on OnX. When the points are off by 15' it's not an OnX problem, it's the GIS Data being fed into OnX from the County where that parcel is. Does that make sense? I am releasing another video in the next month to explain this further.
Great video! thank you. My question is does land guide find the corners by locating the metal stakes in the ground? what if the metal markers have been moved illegally? or have been dug up? thanks john
Hi John. Good questions. LandGlide, and other Apps like it use County GIS data to approximate it. The unique thing about LandGlide is that is has an aerial overlay, and then the blue dot locates your location. If lots have been surveyed prior then there can be metal stakes at the corners.
Thank you mark@@MarkTheRealtor
If you are putting up a fence then the best remedy is to mark the corners and still put the fence less than the boundaries, like 1 foot inside if you use the original pins and notations from plot map. Then the only issue to come up is who mows that little you didn't the fence on. Very good video and helps show how each app can have subtle differences. Now how can we well the surveyors measurements are as accurate as they say. Could have same interference on their equipment as a phone app.
Thanks for the note John. Well received. The surveyors I was with had special equipment that they said costs over $30,000. He said it was accurate within 1 cm. Impressive.
The GPS equipment used in surveying is different, uses different signals, and is accurate to as little as 1/8". It's also obscenely expensive and requires a hefty subscription. And trained operator with tape and transit can get measurements that are accurate to 1/2 inch.
@@joelee2371 Thank you for the feedback JL. Agreed, very valuable equipment and experience is needed. There is a gap between what home owners want as far as corner locations and what it costs them to acquire the info. Within that gap all these other partial solutions are growing. I like Survey's. But we all realize many property owners will not spend the money to hire them.
Fences should never be installed on the property line even when there is no question about its accuracy. Fences installed on a property line become the shared legal responsibility of both properties. You could, for example, sell your house, and if the fence is dilapidated, the new owner could sue the neighbor for half the cost of repairing the fence.
@@tycox8704 And yet 9 out of every 10 fences in our area are installed right on the property line. Our Fence companies demand a pre-survey, snap a line, and start building.
It also depends on how these apps weigh the value of data. It doesn’t tend to vary as much in urban or suburban areas, but in rural areas it’s not uncommon to find discrepancies in overlay data.
In many recent cases there have been disputes over resources and it turned out that On X was favoring Tax maps as they were more “easily available”. However in some cases the tax records lacked updates from official county records. In other cases they had just “corrected” some lines that were not relevant to the purpose of taxation being within acceptable margins of error.
So one of the key issues with these applications is that their data is just an accumulation of many different sources with many different types of Providence. And there is much to much data for the companies to do analysis of which data sets are most accurate or relevant. Where as an official survey contractors job is to actually weed through those types of inconsistencies.
Well okay then. There you have it.
I wonder if those flags could’ve somehow influenced the surveyor. Perhaps setting the pins first, before conducting the app accuracy test, would have eliminated that possibility. Admittedly performing the app testing last could’ve introduced the same effect on the app tester but at least that aspect could’ve been acknowledged and minimized. I measured the distance between the pins set by my surveyor and everything was exactly as the data provided in the county records/paperwork. It’s been so long that I can’t remember exactly what I compared it to, perhaps the plat. Out of curiosity, did you measure the distances between the pins of what your surveyor set?
There were no App flags in when the Surveying team did their survey. I did measure some between the survey pins when they were done. In Version 4 of this video just uploaded I discuss some of those readings.
Hi Mark. I use REGRID.
It shows property lines but I also need to see Block & Lot numbers on the real time map.
Can you recommend Anroid apps that display maps with property lines along with Block & Lot numbers?
Thanks.
Good day Gus. I'm sorry I do not have any experience with Android devices yet.
Is there any reason you did not include using a drone to do a grid of the property. Using ground control points gets into the centimeter accuracy for those.
In rural Australia you can wait for 6 months to get a survey done and it’s depending on size of the land take my place it’s 55acres and just to get 2 surveys points done it’s $6000
Thanks for sharing Tanyia.
As I found out years ago there marked lot lines, there are surveyor lot lines, and there is whatever the township, city, county has recorded.
Good points Ferd.
Mark, will any of those APPS work for me in Birmingham, Alabama? Thanks for any help...
Hello ND. Not sure if the the County where you live is included. It will depend on your County GIS Mapping Dept. 3,300+ Counties in the USA now are included. There is a free trial, perhaps consider trying it.
I enjoyed the video. I feel sorry for the pathetic people who have to find fault and think they know so much better but won't spend the time or money to make content trying to help. Don't listen to the haters and content police or those who clearly didn't pay attention to what you actually said. It is a useful DIY tool, not a legal, binding, professional method !!
I remember a surveyor once showing me a little cross marked in the cement of curb, right next to the driveway.. He told me that they sight down that cross to determine the property line between our house and the neighbor's.
I walked up and down the street and saw thoses crosses on the curb edge of the driveways of every house on the street.
Interestingly enough, sighting down that cross, the property lines are not exactly what you would think.
Tricky.
Thank you Joe for the comment. Good points, those cross hairs can be a big help. Also please keep in mind that many States have something called Street Creep. Our streets in St. Louis are shifting and moving with thermal expansion and erosion downhill.
Appreciate the info. thanks for that. Unfortunately I find the prices for monthly subscriptions to be much higher than the video quoted.
Hi Ralph. Most of them will have a free trial period. And then they have either monthly or a yearly amount that can be divided by 12. Oh, often people will get the App for 1-month and then cancel it. In hopes that knowing your property lines is worth $3, $8, or $10.
Hi Mark, I want to locate approximate corners of a property but the area where the lot is has no cell reception, at least from my carrier, what is your sugestión as to how to procede., thx in advance
Hello Mauricio. Here is what I have done in the past. With Wifi/Cell I open the App I am going to use and pull up the map locations of where I am going to be. Then when without cell reception it is still 99% accurate. I also take my Garmin with me as it will triangulate my position using 10-18 satellites at the same time.
Do the apps give you the coordinates of each corner? Aren't the survey Coordinates the same as GPS coordinates?
Oh, good question. Yes, the surveys can also have GPS coordinates on them. In the next few days I will be releasing a long expected video on locating your Property corners using GPS.