GREAT video Presentation !! I am a retired toolmaker of 53 years I Never saw or heard of a taper Micrometer ! I dont believe they ever taught us in industrial machine shop theory class about using one . lol We always used Sine bar for measuring angles . Learning something NEW every day is what LIFE is all about ! Many thanks for sharing !!
Thanks for posting this.I made a sine bar when I was in high school as a shop project and still have it. It paid off when I was looking for a part time job after school. I approached the owner of a local machine shop (a master machinist from Yugoslavia) and he inquired about my experience. While telling him it was limited, I put the sine bar on his desk and he looked it over. He took my phone number and said he would call if he could use me. The next day, which was a Friday, I received a call asking if I could start the following Monday. I found out later, he had called my high school and verified with my shop teacher that I had actually made it. The owner of the shop had a taper micrometer exactly like the one you demonstrated. He showed it to me, but I never saw it used. He kept it locked up in his safe with the cash box, his citizenship papers and passport.
Very interesting Keith,I’m a retired machinist and was a mold maker back in the 90s. I was very familiar with sine bars and gauge blocks ,but I never saw a micrometer like that. Thanks for sharing
I NEVER saw one Either . Retired toolmaker machinist of 53 Years in the industry . I do not think these mikes were ever taught or used much in the past 50 years in toolmaking . but nice to learn about them no matter . ! Cheers
Hi Mr. Rucker; I just wanted to thank you for another informative topic that I'm not that familiar with. I learned of yet another tool that I have to add to my never ending wish list :). Thanks a bunch :). I just realized that I have been watching you for over ten years now. Oh, one last question could you please, please, please make your Excel sheet / taper calculator available by a link. I really would appreciate it; I'm sure others would find it useful as well. One of my many hobbies is computer programming, and Excel falls in there as well. Especially when I can combine this with machining. Thank you in advance. Kevin M.
@@garybrenner6236 Gary, he'll get to it when he does get to it. All the wishing in the world won't make it happen any faster than it will. Let time take its course, even if you are short of time in this life. In other words, it is what it is, don't worry, be happy. I know you like to dig at KEITH and I hope you take this as was intended, don't bust a gut about it. But I too would like to hear "something" about the current state of that project.
Thanks for another great video Keith. A fine example of high school math (trigonometry) = money is quite valuable for young men and women who want to pursue a career in the honorable trades. Cheers!
Very interesting Keith. I'm not a machinist but I really enjoyed watching what you do and the passion you have for the old iron. Congratulations on your retirement.
That building in Worcester now has a lot of health care companies on the first floor and condo's above and a nice trendy bar in the back. The building has a carved/cast company name of "Washburn and Moen Manuf'g Co." in the front facade. Lacking a taper micrometer, I have setup a v-block on a sine bar and adjusted the gage blocks to get parallel, as you showed.
Fabulous stuff! Never into engineering/shop work though I feel if I'd had a Keith Rucker as a teacher I would of been. Just learn so much. Big fan watching from here in the UK
4:35 You have no idea how many people I have freaked out by showing them that flip move on the phone. I use it all the time. *** EDIT** That and the conversion calculator ( the little ruler icon on yours...) Thanks for the very good explanation on both the sine bar, and the use of the micrometer.
@@ellieprice363 working with this metrology instrument will explain the method very well. I wish there were interactive aids to teach this concept as well as other conceptualizations which would benefit the methods needed.
You have to be kidding! The only reason a machinist watches this guy is for laughs! BTW, if you want to watch a real "machinist" try Mattys Workshop, or Cutting Edge Engineering, or even Keith Fenner.
@@garybrenner6236 Anything I said to this comment in support of Keith and about how Keith is not a laughing matter would be considered dammning with faint praise to Keith to these superior types so I shall not....
@@garybrenner6236 GB you’ve made it evident “that guy” has at least 3 times your intelligence level. He was an agricultural scientist and understands precision even better than you display your ignorance. Now, go back to sleep.
Coincidentally.. I'm only 20 minutes from where those were made. One of many many Worcester companies that made tooling and machines that are now gone. A real shame, honestly.
I remember trying to figure this out back in high school machine shop....I remember it as being harder than you just explained it. Maybe you might want to teach machine shop class, you have a knack of explaining things. Just a thought.😊
@@kensherwin4544 Sometimes they have to be. Adam Booth and Josh Topper often measure the width of keyways with gage blocks. They probably class B blocks for use in the shop.
Frankly, you only need the faces to be clean and free of dust, but that surface rust jerked my chain as well. These hands of mine exude chlorine ions as sweat, this means anything I touch will corrode and show a rust surface. I always carried an aerosol bottle with WD-40 in it, sometimes with a bit of molybdenum disulfide as well if the parts would be moving later. Still have a watchmaker oiler bottle with extensible snout filled with light oil and mollyD nano particles.
Tapers are usually measured now on a lathe. A dial indicator measures the taper on a test bar between centers using the lathe compound or a taper attachment. Search for “ how to measure tapers on a lathe”
Surely someone makes a device that performs this same task. There are electronic angle gauges. If you made a fixture that replaced the sine bar with an electronic level gauge you should be able to calculate the taper. The fixture would have to be stable & you’d have to zero against the contact bar. Perhaps there are other position sensing devices that would be more practicality adaptable for the purpose.
Sweet. Thanks for showing us that formula Keith. But if I tapped in the way you did with 5 x sin 4=. I get 20. So I reversed my sin with the 4 ( 5 x 4sin = 0.34878) and it comes out right. Dam Apple phones!!!
@@FountainCityVol and for ghods sake don't setup as RPN unless you know what reverse polish notation is and how to use it with formulas... this is an option on most Apple pads and phones, it is there for the convenience of people used to HP calculators.
I timed it right and picked up a used set for ~$400/each, and got both of those sizes. You didn't explain (and perhaps it'll be more clear once I see the spreadsheet), but I can't figure out why the mike-reading doesn't match the actual angle. For example, the chart in my taper mic package says .200 inc taper per inch measures .19801, but it isn't clear why. It DOES say the procedure for converting an included taper-per-inch to micrometer reading is: 1- Take Included Taper per Inch 2- Divide by 2 3- Look up in trig table, get tangent of result in #2 (arc tan I Think they mean?) 4- Multiply by 2 5- Look up sin of that value in the table to get the actual value. It still doesn't make sense to me the /2 then *2, and the arc-tan to sine.
The ebay seller looks to have raised the prices. $1995 for a 4D-606, but 'a special price' for $1775.55. yea....thank goodness I don't need one. LOL Reminds me of Jayz2cents and when he gets/finds a good computer item that is reasonably priced. They sell out fast, and then they raise their prices, usually within 8 to 10 hours of his video airing.
So you basically can't buy taper micrometers anymore, but machinists presumably still have to make tapered work for lathe centers and other things. What do they use now, instead of a taper micrometer, to measure such work?
Perhaps modern distribution (EBay, Amazon, large online tool sellers, etc) would make it possible to profitably market these again. It seems that the micrometer part requires the most work, and yet that is readily available. It would be impressive if you manage to inspire production of NEW taper micrometers!
No, not out of fashion. Tapers are still the most accurate way to center moving parts. Tapered pins are also used to position and lock stationary parts. Most tapered machine parts are now made on CNC machines. They can still be machined and measured on manual lathe’s using dial indicators.
'Yeah, for people (like me) that don't naturally work in inches, I'm momentarily confused when an Imperial machinist says "tenths". It doesn't mean "tenths of an inch" it means "tenths of one thousandth of an inch". Don't ask me why all the divisions of an inch are binary up to 1/64" then decimal on down to tenths, while the multiples go 12, 36, 198, 792, 7920, 63360. (ft, yd, pole, chain, furlong, mile).
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
GREAT video Presentation !! I am a retired toolmaker of 53 years I Never saw or heard of a taper Micrometer ! I dont believe they
ever taught us in industrial machine shop theory class about using one . lol We always used Sine bar for measuring angles .
Learning something NEW every day is what LIFE is all about ! Many thanks for sharing !!
Thanks for posting this.I made a sine bar when I was in high school as a shop project and still have it. It paid off when I was looking for a part time job after school. I approached the owner of a local machine shop (a master machinist from Yugoslavia) and he inquired about my experience. While telling him it was limited, I put the sine bar on his desk and he looked it over. He took my phone number and said he would call if he could use me. The next day, which was a Friday, I received a call asking if I could start the following Monday. I found out later, he had called my high school and verified with my shop teacher that I had actually made it. The owner of the shop had a taper micrometer exactly like the one you demonstrated. He showed it to me, but I never saw it used. He kept it locked up in his safe with the cash box, his citizenship papers and passport.
Thanks, Keith! You do a good job of schooling on subjects.
Very interesting Keith,I’m a retired machinist and was a mold maker back in the 90s. I was very familiar with sine bars and gauge blocks ,but I never saw a micrometer like that. Thanks for sharing
I NEVER saw one Either . Retired toolmaker machinist of 53 Years in the industry . I do not think these mikes were ever taught or used much in the past 50 years in toolmaking . but nice to learn about them no matter . ! Cheers
Hi Mr. Rucker; I just wanted to thank you for another informative topic that I'm not that familiar with. I learned of yet another tool that I have to add to my never ending wish list :). Thanks a bunch :). I just realized that I have been watching you for over ten years now. Oh, one last question could you please, please, please make your Excel sheet / taper calculator available by a link. I really would appreciate it; I'm sure others would find it useful as well. One of my many hobbies is computer programming, and Excel falls in there as well. Especially when I can combine this with machining. Thank you in advance. Kevin M.
Grand daughter, beautiful…congratulations……SO GLAD TO HEAR YOU AND YOUR WIFE ARE OKAY!
This was a very informative video Professor!
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge with us!
I wonder when the "Professor" is going to "Sine in" on the Stoker Engine.
@@garybrenner6236 Gary, he'll get to it when he does get to it. All the wishing in the world won't make it happen any faster than it will. Let time take its course, even if you are short of time in this life. In other words, it is what it is, don't worry, be happy.
I know you like to dig at KEITH and I hope you take this as was intended, don't bust a gut about it. But I too would like to hear "something" about the current state of that project.
Thanks for another great video Keith. A fine example of high school math (trigonometry) = money is quite valuable for young men and women who want to pursue a career in the honorable trades. Cheers!
Stay safe Keith and family.
Very interesting Keith. I'm not a machinist but I really enjoyed watching what you do and the passion you have for the old iron. Congratulations on your retirement.
That building in Worcester now has a lot of health care companies on the first floor and condo's above and a nice trendy bar in the back. The building has a carved/cast company name of "Washburn and Moen Manuf'g Co." in the front facade.
Lacking a taper micrometer, I have setup a v-block on a sine bar and adjusted the gage blocks to get parallel, as you showed.
Absolutely LOVE this style of video, plenty of information, and examples, would love to see more informative videos like this! Thank you Keith!
Hi Keith, that was a wonderful lesson and well delivered please think about doing more like this.
Very informative and helpful video. Please share the table
Fascinating, such Useful information !
Thanks for sharing !
Stay measured !
Stu xx
Fabulous stuff! Never into engineering/shop work though I feel if I'd had a Keith Rucker as a teacher I would of been. Just learn so much. Big fan watching from here in the UK
Thanks for posting.
4:35 You have no idea how many people I have freaked out by showing them that flip move on the phone. I use it all the time.
*** EDIT** That and the conversion calculator ( the little ruler icon on yours...)
Thanks for the very good explanation on both the sine bar, and the use of the micrometer.
Loving the mid-week videos! I also love "how-to" videos so this one was great.
Excellent presentation. Thank you.
Good morning Keith! Thanks for the videos.
This is above my skill set. Great tools. You just blew my mind. Never seen anything like it.
Nice specialty tool Keith. I have never seen one. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for showing us how to zero it in.
Since the bottom shoe moved, I was at a loss.
Like a clean sweep for my mind.
That bothered me also. I think I would have to hold the micrometer in my hand and calibrate it to fully understand how it works.
@@ellieprice363 working with this metrology instrument will explain the method very well. I wish there were interactive aids to teach this concept as well as other conceptualizations which would benefit the methods needed.
Thanks Keith for the video. Very interesting it explains a lot on tapers.
As a machinist you’re a rocket scientist!
You have to be kidding!
The only reason a machinist watches this guy is for laughs!
BTW, if you want to watch a real "machinist" try Mattys Workshop, or Cutting Edge Engineering, or even Keith Fenner.
@@garybrenner6236 Anything I said to this comment in support of Keith and about how Keith is not a laughing matter would be considered dammning with faint praise to Keith to these superior types so I shall not....
@@garybrenner6236
GB you’ve made it evident “that guy” has at least 3 times your intelligence level. He was an agricultural scientist and understands precision even better than you display your ignorance.
Now, go back to sleep.
You need intense psychotherapy and perhaps English lessons. Maybe you should just go back to watching cartoons.
Very well explained. Thank you.
Thank you Keith. Great explanation.
Happy Wednesday Keith! 😊
I have not used one of these for many a year, so thanks for the refresher for this retired Old School engineer, Keith.
Thanks Keith! Outstanding information.
Coincidentally.. I'm only 20 minutes from where those were made. One of many many Worcester companies that made tooling and machines that are now gone. A real shame, honestly.
Always enjoyed. Always appreciated. Thank you.
Thanks Keith, really interesting.
Very interesting I have lernt somthing I dident know Thank you
Thank you Keith!
I remember trying to figure this out back in high school machine shop....I remember it as being harder than you just explained it. Maybe you might want to teach machine shop class, you have a knack of explaining things. Just a thought.😊
Good suggestion. Keith is teaching a machine shop class. Now on RUclips to thousands of students instead of high schools or trade schools.
I've been waiting for this!
Perhaps a jig that accepts a normal depth micrometer? minimizing the number of specialty parts.
Thank you for sharing.👍
Thanks Keith Good information
i hope there is no test after this class Thanks Keith for covering tapers
that is a delightful video. you have a wonderful ability. Thanks
Great segment! The taper mic must’ve been invented by a busy machinist who got tired of losing gage blocks among the machining chips.
He should have been fired then. Chips shouldn't be in the same room with gage blocks.
@@kensherwin4544 Sometimes they have to be. Adam Booth and Josh Topper often measure the width of keyways with gage blocks. They probably class B blocks for use in the shop.
Wish you had been my Trig teacher in High School and used these practical examples instead of pure theory.
Thank you for explaining
Guage block rust maintenance? Do you just clean them the ones you need as you use them
Frankly, you only need the faces to be clean and free of dust, but that surface rust jerked my chain as well. These hands of mine exude chlorine ions as sweat, this means anything I touch will corrode and show a rust surface. I always carried an aerosol bottle with WD-40 in it, sometimes with a bit of molybdenum disulfide as well if the parts would be moving later. Still have a watchmaker oiler bottle with extensible snout filled with light oil and mollyD nano particles.
Just watched the weather forecast for Hurricane Helene (1pm on 9/25). Tifton is in the hurricane warning zone. Hunker down and good luck.
Thanks Keith.
I'd heard of taper micrometers but I'd never seen one. Now I have some idea of what it does and how to use it.
Be safe in the storm!
Thank you Keith.
I really enjoy your channel. My question is what do machinists use today to measure tapers if you can’t buy taper micrometers?
For small angels, you can use this formula: Pi/180 * angle * length. That will be 0,3490. :) The precision will increase with smaller angles.
Good morning
Really interesting, thanks.
You just explained to me why I’m not a machinist. Being a helicopter pilot is much easier.
Very interesting
So, random question. How do you measure a taper without a taper micrometer? Like has a new device replaced the taper micrometer?
Tapers are usually measured now on a lathe. A dial indicator measures the taper on a test bar between centers using the lathe compound or a taper attachment. Search for “ how to measure tapers on a lathe”
I can go back to bed now. I have learned something new. Actually a couple of things.🙂
Getting weather out there ?
Thank you!!! I'm glad I don't need one!!!
Interesting tool
Surely someone makes a device that performs this same task. There are electronic angle gauges. If you made a fixture that replaced the sine bar with an electronic level gauge you should be able to calculate the taper. The fixture would have to be stable & you’d have to zero against the contact bar. Perhaps there are other position sensing devices that would be more practicality adaptable for the purpose.
Excellent educational vid! 15:30 this is where a micrometer holder would be really handy.
There is an image of an internal taper micrometer on the practical machinist's forums.
where do you go to get download can not find it
This has inclined my interest. ;)
Sweet. Thanks for showing us that formula Keith.
But if I tapped in the way you did with 5 x sin 4=. I get 20.
So I reversed my sin with the 4 ( 5 x 4sin = 0.34878) and it comes out right.
Dam Apple phones!!!
Also, when doing this make sure your calculator is in degree mode, not radian.
@@FountainCityVol and for ghods sake don't setup as RPN unless you know what reverse polish notation is and how to use it with formulas... this is an option on most Apple pads and phones, it is there for the convenience of people used to HP calculators.
I timed it right and picked up a used set for ~$400/each, and got both of those sizes. You didn't explain (and perhaps it'll be more clear once I see the spreadsheet), but I can't figure out why the mike-reading doesn't match the actual angle. For example, the chart in my taper mic package says .200 inc taper per inch measures .19801, but it isn't clear why.
It DOES say the procedure for converting an included taper-per-inch to micrometer reading is:
1- Take Included Taper per Inch
2- Divide by 2
3- Look up in trig table, get tangent of result in #2 (arc tan I Think they mean?)
4- Multiply by 2
5- Look up sin of that value in the table to get the actual value.
It still doesn't make sense to me the /2 then *2, and the arc-tan to sine.
The ebay seller looks to have raised the prices. $1995 for a 4D-606, but 'a special price' for $1775.55. yea....thank goodness I don't need one. LOL Reminds me of Jayz2cents and when he gets/finds a good computer item that is reasonably priced. They sell out fast, and then they raise their prices, usually within 8 to 10 hours of his video airing.
I just looked there is an inside taper micrometer on E-bay right now.
So a Taper Mic is nothing more than a teeny tiny Sine Bar attached to a Micrometer with different markings. Cool.
Gotta make sure your calculator is in DEG not RAD, RAD is radians.
👍
So you basically can't buy taper micrometers anymore, but machinists presumably still have to make tapered work for lathe centers and other things. What do they use now, instead of a taper micrometer, to measure such work?
Perhaps modern distribution (EBay, Amazon, large online tool sellers, etc) would make it possible to profitably market these again. It seems that the micrometer part requires the most work, and yet that is readily available. It would be impressive if you manage to inspire production of NEW taper micrometers!
Thanks Keith
cool
👍😎
Nice video. I don’t need one 😅
The one on eBay is currently asking $1,775, down from $1,995. That's just dumb
On eBay for over $1000, but nobody make 'em because there's no demand. Economics 101 :))
So what happened to taper micrometers? Did tapered parts go out of fashion?
No, not out of fashion. Tapers are still the most accurate way to center moving parts. Tapered pins are also used to position and lock stationary parts. Most tapered machine parts are now made on CNC machines. They can still be machined and measured on manual lathe’s using dial indicators.
If they are no longer made, how does one measure a taper nowadays?
There are some great youtube vids on how to use 1 2 3 blocks to measure the taper.
It’s probably fair to say that tapers are used a lot less now.
Cnc machines cut tapers accurately now.
Sine bar base, vblock and a height Gage on a surface plate would be one way
Search on RUclips for: “How to measure tapers on a lathe” Taper mikes are convenient but are not the the only way to measure tapers.
The calculation you made was too 1/10,000ths, but I could be wrong as I'm a metric engineer.
'Yeah, for people (like me) that don't naturally work in inches, I'm momentarily confused when an Imperial machinist says "tenths". It doesn't mean "tenths of an inch" it means "tenths of one thousandth of an inch". Don't ask me why all the divisions of an inch are binary up to 1/64" then decimal on down to tenths, while the multiples go 12, 36, 198, 792, 7920, 63360. (ft, yd, pole, chain, furlong, mile).
I tried to buy one of these when you did the first video< but the few that were on offer were, as you say, overpriced.
im sure theres a company in china that could make these and ship them out on ebay or temu for $9.95
Maff be raycipps
Can't sleep huh? 😂
Useful - not really. Interesting - you bet! Thanks.