I presented this idea to my Edmonton City councillor. He loved it. He forwarded it to our transit planning department. If many other viewers writes to their city councillor asking for this suggestion, we (citizens) can make a difference. Thank you Uytae.
This is a good way to get more people on buses. Most people who don't take buses have no idea where they're going and therefore assume that it wouldn't be useful to them. But now a casual glance could be like oh, I actually could use that.
Just having the "next stop" displays/announcements was a huge improvement. These signs are great. Buses could go a long way to bridging the gap to streetcars.
It was super helpful having the next stop announcement in Vancouver, and it's a memorable experience from living in Vancouver. I hope Vancouver knows how lucky they are to have the skytrain system, my city here in New Zealand is thinking about light rail and have recently tried to propose an express bus lane instead of building rail, while more and more bus drivers quit because the city doesn't want to pay them what they're worth. In the first 4 months of this year more than 15,000 buses have been canceled and just from my small circle I've already heard it cause plenty of problems, like my recent ex missing a doctors appointment because of their bus being canceled
I rode the bus in ontario (Miway) and they had the Vancouver style signs, but they seemed to show the time, and bus driver ID and other info. They would only show the stop once someone pulled the cord. Made me realize how lucky we are to have that here in vancouver.
Go to New York, most buses have the next stop system but some of them, they either don’t work or there isn’t one. These companies should get some from Vianova or Clever for them
A decent public transit map makes a huge difference in how likely I am to ride it. Your signs are very inviting and make you want to take the bus. The normal signs make it feel more like an exclusive thing that only locals or people in the know can really use.
You are right, when I moved to the city for school, at first I only went out to places I could get on foot. I'd never had access to public transportation before and didn't know how to navigate it. Signs like these would have been so helpful and built my confidence that I could figure it out on my own. As is, I had a friend teach me when she had time.
Uytae, I'm glad CBC Vancouver is posting all your About Here videos again. Simple, clear, detailed bus maps mounted at eye-level will help people get on the right buses faster. Not everyone can ask "Does this bus go to ....?" Not everyone's phone is handy when they're in a hurry or stressed. Hey bus lines! Why don't you ask the public--not just "customers"-- how they feel about Uytae's idea for bus maps?
It's fair that doing each of the signs initially would take a bunch of time. But if you had a built up a number of assets for each of the routes that you could apply like layers on top of the map. You could just select what busses are at a stop, zoom into the relevant area of the lower mainland, and you're good to go. With a bit of programming you can make it so the colours are picked automatically, and the legend above is done automatically too.. hell, could even program it so that when you text the number you get the image of the map sent to you along with the times until the next bus.... Yah.. would take a bit of time, but wouldn't be hard, and then would only need maintenance when routes change.
I'm a programmer myself - someone could program a piece of software to automatically generate these maps and export them at print resolution, providing an interface just for defining which routes are which and which stops to show along the way. Could source the data from the GTFS (basically transit-agency-published route data) and do all kinds of magic to make it easily legible and reduce manual labour needed!
This is great! When I first moved to Canada, i did not have a phone plan with data for the first week and I had to rely on the bus stop signs to get around. I lived in Peterborough where the bus stop signs did not even display a bus number. I printed out routes to walk with which were not displayed on a map. It was frustrating especially in the first few weeks, where I made mistakes using the service, like coming off the wrong stop or waiting at the wrong bus stop. Those mistakes cost me hours. I think the signs you proposed are very helpful for first time users of the bus service, new comers to Canada, tourist etc. I would have saved a lot of time if those signs you proposed were available. I think it should be mandatory across the country that every bus stop sign has a bus number referencing a route, at least. The map added is the icing on the cake. The people that plan these routes should have an outsider come into their city and test the ease of using their transit system. This would give them the feedback they would require to determine whether the signage and maps available for navigating the routes are helpful.
seriously, knowing where you're going is a major influencer for anyone getting in someone else's vehicle. I"m also talking about getting more people to even USE the bus. Intimidating was a well placed word. Imagine the alternative, whipping out your phone in public, asking strangers on the street. nothing wrong with those things, but simply not for everyone. Thank you again for explaining whats obvious or simple.
My assumption on why bus signs are less defined is that a city may not be ready to commit to a route. If you use the "flexibility" of the bus to change routes after a few years then you have many signs to update. On a train, tracks can't be laid without much greater effort so there are no spontaneous changes to account for. Even so I love the idea and design of your signage.
That's true, but I think there's definitely the opportunity to put these signs at bus exchanges and terminals where popular routes are already well-defined and have been in service for many years. At 22nd station in New Westminster, they have physical signs with the timetables of specific bus routes. If they already committed to timetable signs for a specific route, it probably won't be difficult to add a smaller map sign
That’s also true for reroutes. In a city like Vancouver, where there are crashes every day, buses get re rerouted all the time. And those reroutes don’t get posted into signs.
This is super convenient. Even by using apps, I sometimes miss the bus and it would be helpful to see the routes of the buses and take similar ones. Thanks for your great efforts to make cities better.
Something that isn't mentioned but a good reason about improving accessibility is that this would vastly help minority communities who don't speak English as a first language. Vancouver is a highly multicultural city with many migrant and diaspora communities within its regional borders. Maps like that would help people where they don't speak English or very little. Giving people a frame of reference as to where they want to go and where to get off.
I thought this same thing. I have helped lots of Mandarin-only speaking aunties in multiple cities (Seattle, Toronto, etc) get on the right bus and you can tell they are totally lost. These signs would make a big difference.
@@AlCatSplat i deal with senior citizens at work, I can tell you theres alot of people who just dont know how and would have a veyr hard time learning how to use any maps app
Those signs really are great. They need to be everywhere. Some buses have a route map on the inside wall, but it’s not so useful cause you’re already on the bus. The route map needs to be before you get on the bus, not after.
OH! I've been complaining about this for DECADES! Back in the late 90's Halifax had the best signs, number you could call and a transponder on the bus would tell you how long in real time the bus would be, not some schedule, but real data.
One of the overlooked great things about your signs is that it puts the information at the human level. Having the transit sign nice and high is good for locating it down the road, but the route information needs to be at eye level for the people getting on the bus, not drivers that aren't taking the bus (or driving the bus, who should in theory know where the bus needs to stop).
omg those are SO MUCH BETTER. immediately understandable info, easily readable at a distance. can we sign a petition to make these official?? also anyone who's tried to use their phones in downtown knows the high rises can really mess with signal haha. plus vancouver is a touristy city, it would be great to have these so people who are new to town can find their way around.
Where I live, most medium-sized bus stops are equipped with a detailed map of the regional network so you can easily see what lines go where and study the network a bit while waiting for the bus.
There's nothing new under the Sun, & I remember seeing signs like these for busses when I spent time living in London, England. They're wonderful & were extremely helpful for navigating the transit system. I'd really love to see them added to bus stops here in British Columbia, Canada.
A little over a decade ago, I decided to explore a city I had just moved into and I ended up getting lost. Back then I only had a "dumb" phone so using a navigation app was out of the question. Fortunately, the city had put maps on their sheltered bus stops and I was able to use them to find my way back home. Even though I have since seen them in a couple of other cities as well, they always seem to be limited to the sheltered stops. I don't understand why not even the city that had them a decade ago, has bothered adding mapped signs to pole stops. Clearly it can be done, as Uytae proved here.
A visual guide will always be helpful, so a clear map showing the direction and main stops of each bus route is a no brainer. If there's a reason people think the bus is second class, it's probably because the bus gets stuck in the same traffic cars do unless they have their own lanes. If buses had priority and weren't just traffic, then they'd be a fast and efficient choice for those who don't want a car or can't afford one. Of course, then traffic would be reduced since there are less cars, so everyone wins.
Adding to that, a lot of bus stops are now also being equipped with realtime infoscreens that display exactly when the next few busses will arrive, so you can be assured you aren't waiting for nothing and know exactly how much time you have before your bus arrives. It also gives you a good idea of how frequent each line usually is.
There is GTFS-RT for that, a standard supported by many or most transit systems. Such phone applications as the opensource OneBusAway and the closed-source Transit app and Google Maps all use GTFS-RT feeds to provide real-time arrival information. Agree that per-stop screens are a lot friendlier, but they are expensive and will never be pervasive.
I like these, but I wonder how much they cost. They probably make sense at very busy stops, but it would be very expensive to put them everywhere (and transit is already expensive to run). Also, with subways it is very easy to predict when a train will get to the station. It is much more difficult for busses due to irregularities in boarding time, traffic, and stop lights.
Your a national treasure Uytae. Buses are the backbone of any public transit system. At the minimum you need them to be able to feed significant amount of people to subways and trains to make those systems viable and at best they can completely substitute LRT's and higher cost transit by having express service and dedicated lanes. I understand we have phones nowadays but it always bothers me how useless bus signs are in telling people were the routes are taking them and this is coming from someone who lives in Toronto and thinks that the Vancouver bus signs are much better and visible than the TTC ones. Also sure it costs money to do these things but compared to how much it costs to operate bus services, do all the bureaucracy and buying and maintaining a good fleet of vehicles, a bunch of graphic designers cost nothing. I live in Toronto, two major intersections away from Line 1 subway and without the TTC buses I would have never had access to the subway and my TTC use would literally go from 100% to 0.
This is absolutely relevant. I remember as a kid in high school being terrified not knowing where I was ending up and feeling like the only one. There’s almost an arrogance of ppl who know how to take the bus vs ppl who don’t. Replace some of those ads on stops with site maps , such a simple concept. Sure we have phones and apps but those aren’t always clear. Plus a sign at a stop doesn’t need service or time to load lol
Love the idea. In Chinese cities, large, medium or small, the bus stops have the names of every single stop of every single route that passes through that stop. Many places I've been to also have little LED lights that show you where the buses of that route are in real time.
Those were great looking signs, very readable and immensely helpful. It makes you wonder why they haven't been done before and the only thing I can think of is maintenance costs for things like updating route changes, vandalism and wear and tear. I sure wish they could find a way to make it work though.
Provides a lot more clarity. And also makes the entire city accessible (which it already is but it has is not being visualized as such). And I agree. Media picks on busses far too much. The only issue with busses is driving through traffic, but tbh it is reasonably well managed in most Canadian cities with exclusive bus lanes etc.
Maybe there is a comment addressing this further down, but I haven't seen it, so... I think the other reason we need better signs like the ones Uytae designed, is that often websites are still quite poorly designed. Someone could spend many minutes trying to find the simple info that Uytae's sign show. It's just very practical.
Thank you 👏👏👏 Yes, taking the bus is intimidating! In the U.S., 15% to 20% of people (depending on which agencys' records you view) *don't* own a smartphone. This tends to be low income people -- the same people who rely on the bus for transportation. Mapped signs would be very helpful.
I think it would make sense to take inspiration from places where buses are more popular and less stigmatized (like Europe, or Asia). Bus stops there generally feature large signs, raised curbs and shelters with maps. Many popular stops also have digital next bus arrival screens. Something like what Vancouver has with the Rapidbus, but just at every normal stop.
Bus services in my country (Singapore) can be up to 38km long with almost 100 bus stops & taking 2.5-3.5h one-way, so those might be hard to fit in a map like the one shown in 2:34. If bus services are diverted e.g. due to marathons, F1 (where 50-80 or almost 30% of the country's bus services are diverted), a map of the diverted stretch would be important though. Many time the bus operators here don't bother to do that & instead give you a giant table of bus stops skipped by all affected bus services listed in alphabetical order, but the buses you use don't necessarily serve the stops in alphabetical order, so it takes a while to use that table to locate which stretch of bus stops along your bus' route will be skipped due to diversions.
Those are great designs. And yes your point of saying that bus is a low priority shows when we had two knives incidents within the span of short time and that there are no presence of transit police on buses. Thanks for this segment!
Definitely makes sense to have a printed map! Phones sometimes run out of battery. Or you're from out of town and don't have a data connection that works in Canada, which is exactly the kind of person who would need a bus map anyway, because they aren't a local who already knows where the bus goes. Even with a phone, it's not always easy to find out where a bus route actually goes.
In Taiwan, we use a cellphone app to show where the bus sign is, where the bus is, how many minutes and seconds before the next bus arrives, the route map, and the expected arrival time for each and every stop.
The R5 is an amazing route. It takes you from downtown to SFU in a fraction of the time the old trolleys took. I have a friend who lives near Hastings and Boundary and in the past it would take probably at least twice as long to get to Kootenay Loop. I also really appreciate the longer articulated buses on that route. Much faster service and more of the chance to find a seat.
Not knowing where buses are going to or how they intertwine with other buses is definitely one of the reasons why I avoid taking them. Your diagrams make a lot of sense, I wish more decision makers took the time to make the bus systems easier to understand!
I'm staring at this while my city's last transit sign upgrade was to metal signs with a bus symbol and the municipal transit logo.. from what was quite literally a white plastic sheet with a bus symbol wrapped around a power pole. I'd love to have that basic sign. Now honestly, I'm just wondering how he made that map, because I'd love to make one for my city's stops. But was honestly not expecting him to visit Halifax and do this. I know About Here is almost exclusively a Vancouver thing, which is about as far as you can get from Halifax without heading into Yukon.. so much appreciation to him (and assumedly the team helping him) for trying it out in the Maritimes!
I use transit almost exclusively for going anywhere. I have for years used google maps to plan my route on buses around the lower mainland. It just works and lets me choose a variety of options based on different criteria. I think its great that you want to improve the signs but making people more aware of how to use transit is important too. If you just look at a route map and how long each transfer takes you will not be able to optimize your route for anything but time. There are lots of other ways to calculate routes. Some people can't or don't want to do much walking. Google maps can minimize the walking. That is just one example. There are many others.
One idea I think would be awesome in some instances is "route bus stops." Imagine a bus stop that said "All buses here stop at stops, x, y, z, a, b & c" This information would essentially supersede the bus number on the bus itself in terms of information hierarchy if you wanted to get to one of those stops. Which could possibly allow for routes with sub 5 minute wait times for the next bus, which is basically gold standard in transit. Clever consolidation of bus routes plus use of information hierarchy could allow for buses that start and end their routes in a variety of places to come together to form these high frequency corridors.
Super smart idea. Fingers crossed Translink adopts this type of signage. They don't even need to do all the stops at the same time. Start with prioritizing the downtown cores and then move to the bigger hubs. The lowest priority would be residential lines with only one bus route.
Maps on bus stop signs have been around in my CA city for decades. I found it quite helpful over the years. You can also pickup a large map of the bus route that includes expected arrival times. Now we have digital signage with the bus routes and eta in the downtown area.
This was fascinating, and very well done! I am the organizer of the annual Transit Mapping Symposium, and I'd love to have you speak at our next edition!
I actually made such a sign and posted it at a busy terminal stop where the authority took refused to post a Guide-A-Ride. It took hours and cost me $25 in materials. It was gone in a couple of weeks. The best in North America is Houston Texas. It is a metal sign, posted at eye level and includes fare, operating span and frequency and line map. I have a Houston transit video on my channel.
In Bratislava (Slovakia's capital) we do have stop signs where it only states the bus number and the final destination, but! Either attached to the stop sign pole (smaller bus stops) there is a schedule with the bus's stops, time and the time it takes to travel or at the larger more frequent stops where we have benches covered by some roof, we once again have the bus schedule, but we also have a map of the whole transit system and sometimes we have even a map of the area around the stop to help with transitioning between routes. Then on the bus, the display where it states the destination of the bus, it also includes the city area it goes to, the exact name of the stop, and the major stops it will stop at. Inside of the bus, we have monitors that display the next stops and also show routes at that stop with their departure time.
I saw those signs the other day and was wondering about them. Now I know. I've lived in the Lower Mainland since 1971 and have seen a gigantic improvement in the transit service. I recall there was a time when the buses didn't run at all after 2 am I think it was, and Sunday night it ended even earlier, I think midnight. Some neighbourhoods barely got bus service at all with people having to walk long ways to get to the nearest stop. I used to love the Brill Trolley buses, my favourite seat was the second from the back because you got a built in footrest from the wheel-well of the back tires. Once, I was on the bus with a friend, but in the middle of the very back seat. We were bombing up Nanaimo Street when we went over a big bump and the poles came off the wires, because of the speed of the bus and the size of the bump, one of the poles came crashing back down and broke throught the rear window, right between us. Somehow, I found myself at the very front of the bus without even realizing I was moving. I jokingly say that I tele-ported to the front of the bus. I was covered in broken glass and my friends coat got a big rip from a shard of glass. Ahhh, the good old days.
well, like Malls have signs to tell where to find a store, they could make an information sign the same way, point and click on a digital information sign, and hope it won't be vandalized. They post signs on bus stops anyways. thank you for making those signs.
Nice line of thinking, thanks. In Ottawa, a lot of bus stops have the route maps for the buses on the sign - unfortunately, the map holders they use are limited to three route maps plus one panel for the schedule. The transit stations have all the route maps needed. There are also maps of the whole system in some places.
Once tried to take a bus in Ottawa. It was a north south bus, but it had a small west east detour down Rideau St. The bus signs at the time only had numbers on them, no destination, and it was impossible to determine which side of the road to stand on to catch the right bus just from the sign.
Maybe part of the reason this type of signage is common in subway and train systems, but not bus systems, is that there is already a large upfront cost in building the train stations themselves. When you are building or maintaining a subway stop, creating custom signage is a relatively small cost. But the work that would go into making custom, well laid out signs for each bus stop is more significant compared to the cost of the average bus stop, which is literally just a mass manufactured sign with some stickers and maybe a post to bolt it to. Still a great idea though
You are my hero!! I've been wanting to do exactly this in Los Angeles and would love for you to do a video on how you produced these!! In Los Angeles, part of the issue is that the bus stops are not run by the bus system but rather a French company that isn't even based in the city.
Great video, I had never thought about the way that the bus maps are terrible at bus stops. My city even already has colour coded bus maps but nothing on the bus stops at all. A lot of bus stops have spent money upgrading to electronic screens so they can show real time information, but I think that it would have been better money spent if every single bus stop has maps like the one that you designed. The only flaw I can think of is that if a bus route changed you would have to change all the signage, but come on, that rarely happens and I think is still worth the trade off for high quality route finding on the bus service.
We’ve had new bus stop signs being rolled out all across Sydney! You can see from quite far away the stop name, routes, and their destinations. They also show wether they’re a a rapid transit service too. Some also have maps as well to show where they go exactly. I quite like them around here and help me so much especially when I’m new to a particular route. Some of the busier stops have real time information screens a bit like a kindle on there. You could probably find some copies online, and then put them there please!
Busses tend to be taken by regular users. Trains and metros going to airports and public venues, have more visitors. So that's why you may have only the line number for a bus. Even so, these alternatives are much better.
Yes to the better signs! As a person who uses the bus maybe 3 times a year a big reason I avoid it is the obtuseness of the knowledge of how to use the bus to get from a to b.
There was a video I saw about Korean subway I though was pretty cool. They have a speaker system that allows people who are vision impaired to hear what area/platform they are at. The speaker is located in specific areas. The people who are vision impaired has these button or something that sends a signal to the speaker. The person with vision impairment just walks up to the speakers and the speaker will let them know where they are. The handles has braille at the top and bottom of the staircase. It would indicate which station you are at. I thought that was cool. Vancouver used to have a description of all the stops a bus would stop at. Some of the bigger bus stops with a seating area and some rain shelter used to have a map somewhere too. For whatever reason, they removed all that. It would be nice for the bus to have a map of all the stops of that bus and the skytrain lines somewhere so it will be helpful for travellers, new immigrants, or just people who don't really speak English.
Chicago CTA does something like what you did on our bus signs, some even have full maps on the bus shelters on "corridor" routes to make it easier to navigate.
Beautiful DIY design! I like the positive touch of activism, too. "Phones are a thing" sure, but when I use my phone in public suddenly it's an "unsafe distraction" and I shouldn't do it :P
I love that your taking on way finding on transit systems! As a transit user, after a long day, my phone is often out of power and I would love some redundancy in way finding that is not dependent on my pocket computer!
Nice, thanks. My guess for why this isn’t done (besides the cost of a sign for every bus stop) might be the cost of updating them if they change a route. ..
This was awesome, and a great idea! As a graphic designer, here's the best compliment I can give: I wish I thought of this! I may do a few for SEPTA here in Philly based on this. Thanks!
Even when you can't do graphics for every of the many station station, i would find these extra maps signs super helpful at hubs and stations with big ridership (see the map with the blue dots). so you can serve these stations better. it would also help to have these kind of bigger station give that signal boost to show to riders this is a extra level of dedication at these key stations
I live very closeby to the famous Halifax "21 routes stop". Since the video being recorded, 5 routes servicing that stop have been removed... and replaced by 5 new routes in it's place, with plans to add 1 or 2 more in the coming year... I could nit-pick the Halifax design, but it's a tall order to make sense of everything happening at that one stop, and overall anything's an improvement over what's here. Halifax Transit couldn't even be bothered to order the routes on the sign numerically, and there's almost no consistency!
This is the 2nd video I seen from this dude and i like them. Very well made, America or specificially the USA is far behind the other developed countries.
A change I'd like to make on bus stop signs is their placement. Instead of putting them before intersections they should be placed immediately after them. As for the info on the sign, I don't need it, I use the Transit app and it tells me what bus to get on.
Agreed, and wonderful tactical urbanist experiment. I personally believe that, aside the cost, the dynamic nature of bus routes is partly to blame. It seems every year in Ottawa since 2018 the bus routes have changed, so keeping the maps up-to-date is difficult. With that said, Ottawa does actually have maps on some of their bus stops, although they're not always the most geographically understandable.
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I presented this idea to my Edmonton City councillor. He loved it. He forwarded it to our transit planning department. If many other viewers writes to their city councillor asking for this suggestion, we (citizens) can make a difference. Thank you Uytae.
do you know if anything happened with that?
This is a good way to get more people on buses. Most people who don't take buses have no idea where they're going and therefore assume that it wouldn't be useful to them. But now a casual glance could be like oh, I actually could use that.
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Just having the "next stop" displays/announcements was a huge improvement. These signs are great. Buses could go a long way to bridging the gap to streetcars.
It was super helpful having the next stop announcement in Vancouver, and it's a memorable experience from living in Vancouver. I hope Vancouver knows how lucky they are to have the skytrain system, my city here in New Zealand is thinking about light rail and have recently tried to propose an express bus lane instead of building rail, while more and more bus drivers quit because the city doesn't want to pay them what they're worth. In the first 4 months of this year more than 15,000 buses have been canceled and just from my small circle I've already heard it cause plenty of problems, like my recent ex missing a doctors appointment because of their bus being canceled
I rode the bus in ontario (Miway) and they had the Vancouver style signs, but they seemed to show the time, and bus driver ID and other info. They would only show the stop once someone pulled the cord. Made me realize how lucky we are to have that here in vancouver.
Go to New York, most buses have the next stop system but some of them, they either don’t work or there isn’t one. These companies should get some from Vianova or Clever for them
A decent public transit map makes a huge difference in how likely I am to ride it. Your signs are very inviting and make you want to take the bus. The normal signs make it feel more like an exclusive thing that only locals or people in the know can really use.
You are right, when I moved to the city for school, at first I only went out to places I could get on foot. I'd never had access to public transportation before and didn't know how to navigate it. Signs like these would have been so helpful and built my confidence that I could figure it out on my own. As is, I had a friend teach me when she had time.
That's such a good point, thanks so much!
@@AboutHere Hopefully this message reaches transportation officials across the country.
That's why Google Maps exists.
@@AlCatSplat Google maps doesn’t give you any information on public transportation routes and their designated numbers…
Uytae Lee is a national treasure
@@steveatlas3492 yes
@@steveatlas3492 First of all, that’s racist. Second of all, he is not even Chinese. Touch grass.
@@steveatlas3492 so? you appear european how does that not make him or you canadain?
@@steveatlas3492 so is he, he is from here too. He lives in bc.
@@steveatlas3492 2 founding nations that originally immigrated from somewhere else
Uytae, I'm glad CBC Vancouver is posting all your About Here videos again.
Simple, clear, detailed bus maps mounted at eye-level will help people get on the right buses faster.
Not everyone can ask "Does this bus go to ....?" Not everyone's phone is handy when they're in a hurry or stressed.
Hey bus lines! Why don't you ask the public--not just "customers"-- how they feel about Uytae's idea for bus maps?
Uytae got his start here in Halifax. He would get his hair cut at the Korean stylist across the street.
It's fair that doing each of the signs initially would take a bunch of time. But if you had a built up a number of assets for each of the routes that you could apply like layers on top of the map. You could just select what busses are at a stop, zoom into the relevant area of the lower mainland, and you're good to go. With a bit of programming you can make it so the colours are picked automatically, and the legend above is done automatically too.. hell, could even program it so that when you text the number you get the image of the map sent to you along with the times until the next bus.... Yah.. would take a bit of time, but wouldn't be hard, and then would only need maintenance when routes change.
I'm a programmer myself - someone could program a piece of software to automatically generate these maps and export them at print resolution, providing an interface just for defining which routes are which and which stops to show along the way. Could source the data from the GTFS (basically transit-agency-published route data) and do all kinds of magic to make it easily legible and reduce manual labour needed!
@@lynxcat4life Love that idea so much!!
That already exists, it's called Google Maps.
@@lynxcat4lifea long term solution would be lcd displays like some countries have at their bus stops
This is great! When I first moved to Canada, i did not have a phone plan with data for the first week and I had to rely on the bus stop signs to get around. I lived in Peterborough where the bus stop signs did not even display a bus number. I printed out routes to walk with which were not displayed on a map. It was frustrating especially in the first few weeks, where I made mistakes using the service, like coming off the wrong stop or waiting at the wrong bus stop. Those mistakes cost me hours. I think the signs you proposed are very helpful for first time users of the bus service, new comers to Canada, tourist etc. I would have saved a lot of time if those signs you proposed were available. I think it should be mandatory across the country that every bus stop sign has a bus number referencing a route, at least. The map added is the icing on the cake. The people that plan these routes should have an outsider come into their city and test the ease of using their transit system. This would give them the feedback they would require to determine whether the signage and maps available for navigating the routes are helpful.
seriously, knowing where you're going is a major influencer for anyone getting in someone else's vehicle. I"m also talking about getting more people to even USE the bus. Intimidating was a well placed word. Imagine the alternative, whipping out your phone in public, asking strangers on the street. nothing wrong with those things, but simply not for everyone. Thank you again for explaining whats obvious or simple.
THANK you for highlighting this. So many of these urban planning people are just obsessed with trains which is why they get more attention.
My assumption on why bus signs are less defined is that a city may not be ready to commit to a route. If you use the "flexibility" of the bus to change routes after a few years then you have many signs to update. On a train, tracks can't be laid without much greater effort so there are no spontaneous changes to account for. Even so I love the idea and design of your signage.
That's true, but I think there's definitely the opportunity to put these signs at bus exchanges and terminals where popular routes are already well-defined and have been in service for many years.
At 22nd station in New Westminster, they have physical signs with the timetables of specific bus routes. If they already committed to timetable signs for a specific route, it probably won't be difficult to add a smaller map sign
That’s also true for reroutes. In a city like Vancouver, where there are crashes every day, buses get re rerouted all the time. And those reroutes don’t get posted into signs.
This is super convenient. Even by using apps, I sometimes miss the bus and it would be helpful to see the routes of the buses and take similar ones. Thanks for your great efforts to make cities better.
You can already see the bus route in an app.
Something that isn't mentioned but a good reason about improving accessibility is that this would vastly help minority communities who don't speak English as a first language. Vancouver is a highly multicultural city with many migrant and diaspora communities within its regional borders. Maps like that would help people where they don't speak English or very little. Giving people a frame of reference as to where they want to go and where to get off.
I thought this same thing. I have helped lots of Mandarin-only speaking aunties in multiple cities (Seattle, Toronto, etc) get on the right bus and you can tell they are totally lost. These signs would make a big difference.
Using Google Maps in their native language would probably be more helpful.
@@AlCatSplat i deal with senior citizens at work, I can tell you theres alot of people who just dont know how and would have a veyr hard time learning how to use any maps app
Those signs really are great. They need to be everywhere. Some buses have a route map on the inside wall, but it’s not so useful cause you’re already on the bus. The route map needs to be before you get on the bus, not after.
OH! I've been complaining about this for DECADES! Back in the late 90's Halifax had the best signs, number you could call and a transponder on the bus would tell you how long in real time the bus would be, not some schedule, but real data.
More than the information on your signs it sends the message that we care, and that in itself is worth the effort.
More like it sends a message they think every second person today is a total dolt.
Your designs are massive improvements. Imagine trying to take public transit in Vancouver as someone who doesn't live there or is new.
I would simply use Google Maps.
One of the overlooked great things about your signs is that it puts the information at the human level. Having the transit sign nice and high is good for locating it down the road, but the route information needs to be at eye level for the people getting on the bus, not drivers that aren't taking the bus (or driving the bus, who should in theory know where the bus needs to stop).
omg those are SO MUCH BETTER. immediately understandable info, easily readable at a distance. can we sign a petition to make these official?? also anyone who's tried to use their phones in downtown knows the high rises can really mess with signal haha. plus vancouver is a touristy city, it would be great to have these so people who are new to town can find their way around.
Where I live, most medium-sized bus stops are equipped with a detailed map of the regional network so you can easily see what lines go where and study the network a bit while waiting for the bus.
What's the transit authority in your region?
There's nothing new under the Sun, & I remember seeing signs like these for busses when I spent time living in London, England. They're wonderful & were extremely helpful for navigating the transit system. I'd really love to see them added to bus stops here in British Columbia, Canada.
Uytae is by far the most talented journalist i've scene working for the CBC. They should be covering National stories and getting more budget
A little over a decade ago, I decided to explore a city I had just moved into and I ended up getting lost. Back then I only had a "dumb" phone so using a navigation app was out of the question. Fortunately, the city had put maps on their sheltered bus stops and I was able to use them to find my way back home. Even though I have since seen them in a couple of other cities as well, they always seem to be limited to the sheltered stops. I don't understand why not even the city that had them a decade ago, has bothered adding mapped signs to pole stops. Clearly it can be done, as Uytae proved here.
A visual guide will always be helpful, so a clear map showing the direction and main stops of each bus route is a no brainer. If there's a reason people think the bus is second class, it's probably because the bus gets stuck in the same traffic cars do unless they have their own lanes. If buses had priority and weren't just traffic, then they'd be a fast and efficient choice for those who don't want a car or can't afford one. Of course, then traffic would be reduced since there are less cars, so everyone wins.
4:08 was such a wholesome moment. I love to see it
Brilliant idea. The riders and even the bus drivers will really thank you for this.
Adding to that, a lot of bus stops are now also being equipped with realtime infoscreens that display exactly when the next few busses will arrive, so you can be assured you aren't waiting for nothing and know exactly how much time you have before your bus arrives. It also gives you a good idea of how frequent each line usually is.
There is GTFS-RT for that, a standard supported by many or most transit systems. Such phone applications as the opensource OneBusAway and the closed-source Transit app and Google Maps all use GTFS-RT feeds to provide real-time arrival information. Agree that per-stop screens are a lot friendlier, but they are expensive and will never be pervasive.
I like these, but I wonder how much they cost. They probably make sense at very busy stops, but it would be very expensive to put them everywhere (and transit is already expensive to run). Also, with subways it is very easy to predict when a train will get to the station. It is much more difficult for busses due to irregularities in boarding time, traffic, and stop lights.
Uytae always nails it. He should be consulting every city council and transit authority in the country.
Your a national treasure Uytae. Buses are the backbone of any public transit system. At the minimum you need them to be able to feed significant amount of people to subways and trains to make those systems viable and at best they can completely substitute LRT's and higher cost transit by having express service and dedicated lanes. I understand we have phones nowadays but it always bothers me how useless bus signs are in telling people were the routes are taking them and this is coming from someone who lives in Toronto and thinks that the Vancouver bus signs are much better and visible than the TTC ones.
Also sure it costs money to do these things but compared to how much it costs to operate bus services, do all the bureaucracy and buying and maintaining a good fleet of vehicles, a bunch of graphic designers cost nothing. I live in Toronto, two major intersections away from Line 1 subway and without the TTC buses I would have never had access to the subway and my TTC use would literally go from 100% to 0.
"Buses are the backbone of any public transit system" no, they are a band-aid solution to bad urban planning.
Bravo, nice professional job. Hopefully someone in Transit is watching.
I recall looking for this information years ago, wishing it was there.
This is absolutely relevant. I remember as a kid in high school being terrified not knowing where I was ending up and feeling like the only one. There’s almost an arrogance of ppl who know how to take the bus vs ppl who don’t. Replace some of those ads on stops with site maps , such a simple concept. Sure we have phones and apps but those aren’t always clear. Plus a sign at a stop doesn’t need service or time to load lol
"We have apps but those aren't always clear" yes they are.
After living in Vancouver for 20 years, I still took a bus to the wrong direction the other night. I think those signs are extremely useful.
Love the idea. In Chinese cities, large, medium or small, the bus stops have the names of every single stop of every single route that passes through that stop. Many places I've been to also have little LED lights that show you where the buses of that route are in real time.
Taiwan is a free and democratic country
@@Bull3tBikes ?
The bus stop should also say which road the stops served by the buses are at
Those were great looking signs, very readable and immensely helpful. It makes you wonder why they haven't been done before and the only thing I can think of is maintenance costs for things like updating route changes, vandalism and wear and tear. I sure wish they could find a way to make it work though.
AWESOME videos dude! About time CBC supported urbanism content... It's huge on RUclips. Hope there's way more to come
Provides a lot more clarity. And also makes the entire city accessible (which it already is but it has is not being visualized as such).
And I agree. Media picks on busses far too much. The only issue with busses is driving through traffic, but tbh it is reasonably well managed in most Canadian cities with exclusive bus lanes etc.
Man that would be such a wonderful idea! I love the redesigned map! Hopefully TransLink watches this video!
I never had problems taking public transportation in Vancouver BC. The public transportation in Vancouver BC is Awesome.
This is great, completely brilliant! This should be implemented
The new signs are much better than the old one.👏
Uytea Lee for Mayor 🎉
Maybe there is a comment addressing this further down, but I haven't seen it, so...
I think the other reason we need better signs like the ones Uytae designed, is that often websites are still quite poorly designed. Someone could spend many minutes trying to find the simple info that Uytae's sign show. It's just very practical.
Thank you 👏👏👏 Yes, taking the bus is intimidating! In the U.S., 15% to 20% of people (depending on which agencys' records you view) *don't* own a smartphone. This tends to be low income people -- the same people who rely on the bus for transportation. Mapped signs would be very helpful.
Brilliant, please add these everywhere!
I think it would make sense to take inspiration from places where buses are more popular and less stigmatized (like Europe, or Asia). Bus stops there generally feature large signs, raised curbs and shelters with maps. Many popular stops also have digital next bus arrival screens. Something like what Vancouver has with the Rapidbus, but just at every normal stop.
Bus services in my country (Singapore) can be up to 38km long with almost 100 bus stops & taking 2.5-3.5h one-way, so those might be hard to fit in a map like the one shown in 2:34. If bus services are diverted e.g. due to marathons, F1 (where 50-80 or almost 30% of the country's bus services are diverted), a map of the diverted stretch would be important though. Many time the bus operators here don't bother to do that & instead give you a giant table of bus stops skipped by all affected bus services listed in alphabetical order, but the buses you use don't necessarily serve the stops in alphabetical order, so it takes a while to use that table to locate which stretch of bus stops along your bus' route will be skipped due to diversions.
Those are great designs. And yes your point of saying that bus is a low priority shows when we had two knives incidents within the span of short time and that there are no presence of transit police on buses. Thanks for this segment!
Definitely makes sense to have a printed map! Phones sometimes run out of battery. Or you're from out of town and don't have a data connection that works in Canada, which is exactly the kind of person who would need a bus map anyway, because they aren't a local who already knows where the bus goes. Even with a phone, it's not always easy to find out where a bus route actually goes.
In Taiwan, we use a cellphone app to show where the bus sign is, where the bus is, how many minutes and seconds before the next bus arrives, the route map, and the expected arrival time for each and every stop.
The R5 is an amazing route. It takes you from downtown to SFU in a fraction of the time the old trolleys took. I have a friend who lives near Hastings and Boundary and in the past it would take probably at least twice as long to get to Kootenay Loop. I also really appreciate the longer articulated buses on that route. Much faster service and more of the chance to find a seat.
They need to implement this redesign IMMEDIATELY.
Not knowing where buses are going to or how they intertwine with other buses is definitely one of the reasons why I avoid taking them. Your diagrams make a lot of sense, I wish more decision makers took the time to make the bus systems easier to understand!
Google Maps?
I'm staring at this while my city's last transit sign upgrade was to metal signs with a bus symbol and the municipal transit logo.. from what was quite literally a white plastic sheet with a bus symbol wrapped around a power pole. I'd love to have that basic sign. Now honestly, I'm just wondering how he made that map, because I'd love to make one for my city's stops.
But was honestly not expecting him to visit Halifax and do this. I know About Here is almost exclusively a Vancouver thing, which is about as far as you can get from Halifax without heading into Yukon.. so much appreciation to him (and assumedly the team helping him) for trying it out in the Maritimes!
I use transit almost exclusively for going anywhere. I have for years used google maps to plan my route on buses around the lower mainland. It just works and lets me choose a variety of options based on different criteria. I think its great that you want to improve the signs but making people more aware of how to use transit is important too. If you just look at a route map and how long each transfer takes you will not be able to optimize your route for anything but time. There are lots of other ways to calculate routes. Some people can't or don't want to do much walking. Google maps can minimize the walking. That is just one example. There are many others.
One idea I think would be awesome in some instances is "route bus stops."
Imagine a bus stop that said "All buses here stop at stops, x, y, z, a, b & c" This information would essentially supersede the bus number on the bus itself in terms of information hierarchy if you wanted to get to one of those stops. Which could possibly allow for routes with sub 5 minute wait times for the next bus, which is basically gold standard in transit.
Clever consolidation of bus routes plus use of information hierarchy could allow for buses that start and end their routes in a variety of places to come together to form these high frequency corridors.
Super smart idea. Fingers crossed Translink adopts this type of signage. They don't even need to do all the stops at the same time. Start with prioritizing the downtown cores and then move to the bigger hubs. The lowest priority would be residential lines with only one bus route.
Maps on bus stop signs have been around in my CA city for decades. I found it quite helpful over the years. You can also pickup a large map of the bus route that includes expected arrival times. Now we have digital signage with the bus routes and eta in the downtown area.
Yes! This is so needed 🎉
This was fascinating, and very well done! I am the organizer of the annual Transit Mapping Symposium, and I'd love to have you speak at our next edition!
I actually made such a sign and posted it at a busy terminal stop where the authority took refused to post a Guide-A-Ride. It took hours and cost me $25 in materials. It was gone in a couple of weeks. The best in North America is Houston Texas. It is a metal sign, posted at eye level and includes fare, operating span and frequency and line map. I have a Houston transit video on my channel.
This guy is doing god's work, he's such a great speaker too.
In Bratislava (Slovakia's capital) we do have stop signs where it only states the bus number and the final destination, but! Either attached to the stop sign pole (smaller bus stops) there is a schedule with the bus's stops, time and the time it takes to travel or at the larger more frequent stops where we have benches covered by some roof, we once again have the bus schedule, but we also have a map of the whole transit system and sometimes we have even a map of the area around the stop to help with transitioning between routes. Then on the bus, the display where it states the destination of the bus, it also includes the city area it goes to, the exact name of the stop, and the major stops it will stop at. Inside of the bus, we have monitors that display the next stops and also show routes at that stop with their departure time.
Love this guy and his channel. Go team urban planning
Translink, would you please just hire this man already!
I saw those signs the other day and was wondering about them. Now I know. I've lived in the Lower Mainland since 1971 and have seen a gigantic improvement in the transit service. I recall there was a time when the buses didn't run at all after 2 am I think it was, and Sunday night it ended even earlier, I think midnight. Some neighbourhoods barely got bus service at all with people having to walk long ways to get to the nearest stop. I used to love the Brill Trolley buses, my favourite seat was the second from the back because you got a built in footrest from the wheel-well of the back tires. Once, I was on the bus with a friend, but in the middle of the very back seat. We were bombing up Nanaimo Street when we went over a big bump and the poles came off the wires, because of the speed of the bus and the size of the bump, one of the poles came crashing back down and broke throught the rear window, right between us. Somehow, I found myself at the very front of the bus without even realizing I was moving. I jokingly say that I tele-ported to the front of the bus. I was covered in broken glass and my friends coat got a big rip from a shard of glass. Ahhh, the good old days.
OMG! This is exactly what I always wished the bus stops had !!!
Melbourne's bus stops generally have maps and timetables for all routes that stop there. Only issue is most routes just don't run frequently enough
well, like Malls have signs to tell where to find a store, they could make an information sign the same way, point and click on a digital information sign, and hope it won't be vandalized. They post signs on bus stops anyways. thank you for making those signs.
Uytae is always an insta-click
Uytae is killing it with these videos! keep it up
OMG!!! My bro Uytae! He was here in Halifax and was part of Homes Not Hondas. Where I knew him!
From Richmond to Halifax. Great work, Uytae! Beers on me next time you're back in the rain coast!
Yes please!
Fully agree! Bus stop signs in Toronto are practically cardboard signs on sticks.
Nice line of thinking, thanks. In Ottawa, a lot of bus stops have the route maps for the buses on the sign - unfortunately, the map holders they use are limited to three route maps plus one panel for the schedule. The transit stations have all the route maps needed. There are also maps of the whole system in some places.
Once tried to take a bus in Ottawa. It was a north south bus, but it had a small west east detour down Rideau St. The bus signs at the time only had numbers on them, no destination, and it was impossible to determine which side of the road to stand on to catch the right bus just from the sign.
They used to have bus route brochure on the bus and small diagrams of the route on the bus post. I don’t know if they still do.
I love this guy
Maybe part of the reason this type of signage is common in subway and train systems, but not bus systems, is that there is already a large upfront cost in building the train stations themselves. When you are building or maintaining a subway stop, creating custom signage is a relatively small cost. But the work that would go into making custom, well laid out signs for each bus stop is more significant compared to the cost of the average bus stop, which is literally just a mass manufactured sign with some stickers and maybe a post to bolt it to.
Still a great idea though
You are my hero!! I've been wanting to do exactly this in Los Angeles and would love for you to do a video on how you produced these!! In Los Angeles, part of the issue is that the bus stops are not run by the bus system but rather a French company that isn't even based in the city.
Sign improvement is a great idea.
I don’t carry a phone so this kind of improvement really assists my day to day life 👍
Great video, I had never thought about the way that the bus maps are terrible at bus stops. My city even already has colour coded bus maps but nothing on the bus stops at all. A lot of bus stops have spent money upgrading to electronic screens so they can show real time information, but I think that it would have been better money spent if every single bus stop has maps like the one that you designed.
The only flaw I can think of is that if a bus route changed you would have to change all the signage, but come on, that rarely happens and I think is still worth the trade off for high quality route finding on the bus service.
We’ve had new bus stop signs being rolled out all across Sydney! You can see from quite far away the stop name, routes, and their destinations. They also show wether they’re a a rapid transit service too. Some also have maps as well to show where they go exactly. I quite like them around here and help me so much especially when I’m new to a particular route. Some of the busier stops have real time information screens a bit like a kindle on there. You could probably find some copies online, and then put them there please!
Busses tend to be taken by regular users. Trains and metros going to airports and public venues, have more visitors. So that's why you may have only the line number for a bus. Even so, these alternatives are much better.
God damn I didn't think I'd ever care about CBC content you're amazing
Yes to the better signs! As a person who uses the bus maybe 3 times a year a big reason I avoid it is the obtuseness of the knowledge of how to use the bus to get from a to b.
You don't have Google Maps?
There was a video I saw about Korean subway I though was pretty cool. They have a speaker system that allows people who are vision impaired to hear what area/platform they are at. The speaker is located in specific areas. The people who are vision impaired has these button or something that sends a signal to the speaker. The person with vision impairment just walks up to the speakers and the speaker will let them know where they are.
The handles has braille at the top and bottom of the staircase. It would indicate which station you are at. I thought that was cool.
Vancouver used to have a description of all the stops a bus would stop at. Some of the bigger bus stops with a seating area and some rain shelter used to have a map somewhere too. For whatever reason, they removed all that. It would be nice for the bus to have a map of all the stops of that bus and the skytrain lines somewhere so it will be helpful for travellers, new immigrants, or just people who don't really speak English.
Chicago CTA does something like what you did on our bus signs, some even have full maps on the bus shelters on "corridor" routes to make it easier to navigate.
Uytae should be the next mayor!
That's a really really nice movie in so many aspects. And translink should make it happen 👊
Beautiful DIY design! I like the positive touch of activism, too. "Phones are a thing" sure, but when I use my phone in public suddenly it's an "unsafe distraction" and I shouldn't do it :P
Only if you're using it while crossing the road.
I love that your taking on way finding on transit systems!
As a transit user, after a long day, my phone is often out of power and I would love some redundancy in way finding that is not dependent on my pocket computer!
Might want to invest in a power bank.
Nice, thanks. My guess for why this isn’t done (besides the cost of a sign for every bus stop) might be the cost of updating them if they change a route. ..
Remember they used to have relevant maps printed and available in little pockets attached to the fare boxes on every bus
@@VancouverDave just use a digital sign? digital LED display are chep now, you can also just use a black and white screen which cost even less.
The bus driver's hand gesture at 4:11 🤣😂
This was awesome, and a great idea! As a graphic designer, here's the best compliment I can give: I wish I thought of this!
I may do a few for SEPTA here in Philly based on this. Thanks!
Even when you can't do graphics for every of the many station station, i would find these extra maps signs super helpful at hubs and stations with big ridership (see the map with the blue dots). so you can serve these stations better. it would also help to have these kind of bigger station give that signal boost to show to riders this is a extra level of dedication at these key stations
I live very closeby to the famous Halifax "21 routes stop". Since the video being recorded, 5 routes servicing that stop have been removed... and replaced by 5 new routes in it's place, with plans to add 1 or 2 more in the coming year...
I could nit-pick the Halifax design, but it's a tall order to make sense of everything happening at that one stop, and overall anything's an improvement over what's here. Halifax Transit couldn't even be bothered to order the routes on the sign numerically, and there's almost no consistency!
This is the 2nd video I seen from this dude and i like them. Very well made, America or specificially the USA is far behind the other developed countries.
Love those signs! Also the map of transit boardings is intriguing! Great content as always Uytae!
A change I'd like to make on bus stop signs is their placement. Instead of putting them before intersections they should be placed immediately after them. As for the info on the sign, I don't need it, I use the Transit app and it tells me what bus to get on.
Agreed, and wonderful tactical urbanist experiment. I personally believe that, aside the cost, the dynamic nature of bus routes is partly to blame. It seems every year in Ottawa since 2018 the bus routes have changed, so keeping the maps up-to-date is difficult. With that said, Ottawa does actually have maps on some of their bus stops, although they're not always the most geographically understandable.