For easy runs, I used heart rate monitor to ensure I remain in my aerobic zone. For workouts, I used pace to dictate my runs. Thanks for the video Andy!
I ditched the heart rate monitor completely last year, and I’m glad I did. It can suck the joy out of running being a slave to heart rate. I listen to my breathing now and use pace for racing and some harder sessions.
i am very glad, to be old enough to run by happiness and joy. While i run i love to listen to my breathing, my footsteps and the sounds of nature. I also love to feel my heart beat and the joy of connecing to mother earth.......in my racing days there was nothing but an ordenary stopwatch without any additional information....i am also happy for that experience
Love that Thomas! And yes I agree with the racing watch, having turned my laps off on my watch I only start and stop it, I dont get beeps every km or mile, which is great because it takes away from being in tune with yourself!
Ive been doing MAF for the last 4 years and have really found it suits me, i find that im less injury prone and that im also able to do more mileage without feeling too fatigued, it might not be for everyone but it suits me
Thank you Andy. I see so many people pushing Mafs. I thought I would try going by pace. But I was doubting if I was going down the right path. It is good to know that this will work as well.
Will be doing a moderate longrun in the heat (will go from 24 to 29C during the run) tomorrowmorning and will be doing it by heartrate. If I would do it by pace (which I normally do) I would be running in the wrong zone and I will pay for it the next session. My heartrate is at least 5 higher with this weather and at the end of the run maybe even 10 higher.
I like to gauge intensity with a system that Stephen Seiler describes very well: a triangulation of an input metric (HR), an output metric (pace or power) and feel (RPE). Depending on the goal of a training the emphasis shifts. In aerobic base building for example, input is the most important metric (always nuanced by RPE). Close to a race you want to be able to sustain race pace, so output becomes leading (again nuanced by RPE). The ratio between input and output tells something about your efficiency (and therefore fitness): same pace/power at the lower HR = fitter, higher pace/power at same HR = fitter. Important thing about power: it’s a measure for your output, not input. So it never replaces HR, but it can replace pace. On trails, all this goes into the bin and being able to gauge your effort just by feel becomes crucial 😂
Easy runs I go by HR. Speed sessions by pace. Long runs by effort. I don’t do MAF training. However I do Karvonen HR training. It is more accurate and takes into account your avg. resting HR and max heartrate and spits out your zones.
Hi Andy! For quality workouts (intervals, tempo etc) I use pace adjusted by weather conditions. Easy runs and long runs where I am just trying to log miles -- I pretty much run by feel and validated by heart rate. I think you and I share similar perspectives on effort level. I used to get hung up on heart rate, but given I use the wrist based one, I don't get too hung up on it. One of the key takeaways I've been doing this year (and late in 2022) is keeping my easy runs ridiculously easy and save the energy for races and harder efforts. Love your content -- I get so much value out of it and as I am hammering away at my races I think about all the things I've learned from your channel.
This is very similar to the system I've worked out for myself over time. Finally, someone else in YT land who does the same and explains it. There seems to be too much one or the other extreme being talked about. Many thanks for sharing this.
Great video. Really appreciate how you explained the different approaches and gave examples. Two questions: How do you adjust pace goal for heat/humidity, particularly over a longer training block where weather can change a lot from month to month? And how do you manage to keep hitting your target pace so exactly from run to run, especially on hilly terrain where paces can vary more throughout?
Thanks! So when the first wave of heat hit, I didnt adjust and I really suffered.... so now I just dial it back... I often have a little talk with myself to make sure im running at a good easy conversational pace... then when i'm there I just sit and hold that. With regards to the hills, I probably do what I shouldnt and I dont often slow down that much... I do back off but not as much as I should... but what that leads too is more consistent pacing week in week out and then I can get a good comparison as the block goes on as to how my HR is coming down for that given pace
We train by TRIMP. We always do track session to time goals, to the precise second. We don't do so much longruns, but some trailruns at controled effort. We do some strength work and weights (lifting) We do a lot of running form and speed drills.
Thanks Andy, I’m training by power with Stryd. Absolutely fabulous if you have a good critical power estimate. You’ll have a very good race prediction where you can input course, temperature and humidity for more accurate prediction.
Recent convert to Stryd and really useful. Hills and weather no longer an issue with pacing 🙌 ran a mountain race last weekend with it and felt really strong in the last mile.
Great video thanks Andy! I train by heart rate with a chest strap hrm, get my zones figured out at Bath uni. But may train by a given pace as you do here next time see how that feels
I definitely do easy runs using HR or effort. Sounds risky to go by pace for easy runs as some days that will be harder to achieve than other days and then danger of building extra fatigue which could adversely impact the quality sessions? I always read that Easy pace will vary day to day so best to go on feel so easy runs are truly easy? I definitely go by pace but with a target range for intervals/Tempo so can still adjust within that depending on how I feel on the day.
Generally train by a mixture of pace and effort with an allowance that they're not always perfectly correlated. I do use the HR only screen on easy runs though, to make sure I keep it low and don't get pace anxiety.
Cheers Andy. Currently training by heart rate for my marathon block. Taking your advice, I’m planning to do a 10k block after and probably try pace and effort for that - great video 😊👍
A good night sleep so much essential for running with heart rate. On race day heart rate is of no use because less sleep and anxiety the night before already keeps heart rate quite high on race day morning. The biggest reason for my heart rate to go down during runs was when I lost 6kgs of body weight.
Great content as always Andy and congrats on your top result last weekend in the 10k. If i'm understanding correctly if you stick with HR as your measure, but take a look at your power output as you go through the block, assuming you improve your power will increase for the same session (as you are getting faster). Contrast this to using the power metric assuming you keep your target power figure the same over the block (would that be the plan?) you will be running at the same speed for the same session but doing so with less effort (or lower HR), assuming I have understood correctly. Hope that doesn't sound too pedantic! Keep up the good work and all the best with the rest of your block.
Thanks! Yes thats correct, not pedantic at all! A good example is this morning, did a 40 minute steady run but didnt have too much energy so managed 6:46 per mile, but ave HR was 138bpm... which at the start of the block was my easy run pace... so you can see for the effort I put in, the pace is now quicker.
I'm a hybrid HR/Power (Stryd) training guy. I use a 3 HR zone model defined by LT1 (155bpm) and LT2(182bpm) which was defined during a VO2Max test on a metabolic cart to get a HR profile to see the demarcation at LT1 and LT2. I spend most of my time sub LT1 (easy runs, pure long runs), moderate runs I try and sit right at LT1 before I get into my strides and finish the run where I have lost LT1 and I don't stress about it and just try to stay as close as I can to LT1 till finish. In my power based sessions, HR is really only analyzed after the fact, power drives the intensity. I might look at the HR between intervals during the recoveries to see how ready I am to really start the next interval, but again, it's anecdotal after the fact considerations. In longer marathon/half sessions while power still drives the targets the goal is to not cross LT2, if I do, I TRY to force myself to slow down a tad.
So Andy, do you pencil in goal training paces for all your runs throughout the block? Or do you just do the first few weeks and then go off effort level?
Any tips on the 5k as I’m able to get equivalent times as to where my fitness is in other Events like 10k half and full but I just can’t seem to transfer any type of form or pace into my 5k ❤ love ur vids
I suffer the same issues when it comes to extending my speed to the half and full! All I can recommend is doing a block of specific 5k training and really dedicate some time to focusing on that distance
Pace is better. Actually cadance is better. Energy even better.. Power Ratio on Stryd is excellent for keeping injury free. HR can make your cadance low leading to injury.
My easy runs are usual 72% or under of my max HR and my moderate runs are around 75%/78%....My max is roughly 188, but never properly been tested.... highest ive ever seen is 186 and i reckon it can go 1/2bpm higher
I just did a park run this morning and my heart rate shot up to maximum 180+, I ran all the 30mins with a max heart rate at one point I was touching 200bpm not sure if that is safe? I am 48, I did 2k easy run as a warm up.
Everyone has a different MAX HR so its hard to say if its unsafe or not... i coach atheltes with really low HR's and really high, everyone is different
I'm using a Garmin coach ATM for half marathon, not sure what metric they're using, think it's more likely to be pace. How does it accommodate wind and gradients into the data, wherever I go on my runs the first 5k starts with 150-200meters of climbing and my little bleeper is telling me I'm too slow (with 30mph wind in the face thrown in for good measure) this is obviously a much harder workout than a flat road with the wind behind you but the pace should be the same?
I think thats where running by effort comes into play... because if you shoot off up a hill with a small climb and you've got wind in your face, you cant realistically run at the same effort level as if it was flat or downhill with a tailwind.... so you've just got to adjust accordindly. I think using the garmin coach is great, but I would ignore the beeper in those situations and just run to the right effort level!
@TheFODRunner thank you, I'll take that on board and adjust. I think the Garmin coach thing is aiming me at low zone 3 for my long runs (if it were flat and not windy) so I should probs just aim for that zone regardless of the conditions, to compensate for the bleeper ignoring the conditions, makes sense.
True.... I run to time/duration in my plans, I dont run to distance usually... its quite rare I have a workout in miles/km these days, usually just "50 minutes easy" or "90 minute long run" etc
For easy runs, I used heart rate monitor to ensure I remain in my aerobic zone. For workouts, I used pace to dictate my runs. Thanks for the video Andy!
I ditched the heart rate monitor completely last year, and I’m glad I did. It can suck the joy out of running being a slave to heart rate. I listen to my breathing now and use pace for racing and some harder sessions.
i am very glad, to be old enough to run by happiness and joy. While i run i love to listen to my breathing, my footsteps and the sounds of nature. I also love to feel my heart beat and the joy of connecing to mother earth.......in my racing days there was nothing but an ordenary stopwatch without any additional information....i am also happy for that experience
Love that Thomas! And yes I agree with the racing watch, having turned my laps off on my watch I only start and stop it, I dont get beeps every km or mile, which is great because it takes away from being in tune with yourself!
Ive been doing MAF for the last 4 years and have really found it suits me, i find that im less injury prone and that im also able to do more mileage without feeling too fatigued, it might not be for everyone but it suits me
Thank you Andy. I see so many people pushing Mafs. I thought I would try going by pace. But I was doubting if I was going down the right path. It is good to know that this will work as well.
Will be doing a moderate longrun in the heat (will go from 24 to 29C during the run) tomorrowmorning and will be doing it by heartrate.
If I would do it by pace (which I normally do) I would be running in the wrong zone and I will pay for it the next session.
My heartrate is at least 5 higher with this weather and at the end of the run maybe even 10 higher.
I like to gauge intensity with a system that Stephen Seiler describes very well: a triangulation of an input metric (HR), an output metric (pace or power) and feel (RPE). Depending on the goal of a training the emphasis shifts. In aerobic base building for example, input is the most important metric (always nuanced by RPE). Close to a race you want to be able to sustain race pace, so output becomes leading (again nuanced by RPE). The ratio between input and output tells something about your efficiency (and therefore fitness): same pace/power at the lower HR = fitter, higher pace/power at same HR = fitter.
Important thing about power: it’s a measure for your output, not input. So it never replaces HR, but it can replace pace.
On trails, all this goes into the bin and being able to gauge your effort just by feel becomes crucial 😂
Fantastic to hear, thats very insightful!
Easy runs I go by HR. Speed sessions by pace. Long runs by effort. I don’t do MAF training. However I do Karvonen HR training. It is more accurate and takes into account your avg. resting HR and max heartrate and spits out your zones.
Hi Andy! For quality workouts (intervals, tempo etc) I use pace adjusted by weather conditions. Easy runs and long runs where I am just trying to log miles -- I pretty much run by feel and validated by heart rate. I think you and I share similar perspectives on effort level. I used to get hung up on heart rate, but given I use the wrist based one, I don't get too hung up on it. One of the key takeaways I've been doing this year (and late in 2022) is keeping my easy runs ridiculously easy and save the energy for races and harder efforts. Love your content -- I get so much value out of it and as I am hammering away at my races I think about all the things I've learned from your channel.
Thanks Eddie, and well done on your recent race!
This is very similar to the system I've worked out for myself over time. Finally, someone else in YT land who does the same and explains it. There seems to be too much one or the other extreme being talked about. Many thanks for sharing this.
I think with so much technology coming out and so many "training methods" you can get a lot of people who "box themselves" into one system
Well said Andy it's all about what works for you and no harm in trying different approaches to your training to try and make progress 👍
Great video. Really appreciate how you explained the different approaches and gave examples. Two questions:
How do you adjust pace goal for heat/humidity, particularly over a longer training block where weather can change a lot from month to month?
And how do you manage to keep hitting your target pace so exactly from run to run, especially on hilly terrain where paces can vary more throughout?
Thanks! So when the first wave of heat hit, I didnt adjust and I really suffered.... so now I just dial it back... I often have a little talk with myself to make sure im running at a good easy conversational pace... then when i'm there I just sit and hold that. With regards to the hills, I probably do what I shouldnt and I dont often slow down that much... I do back off but not as much as I should... but what that leads too is more consistent pacing week in week out and then I can get a good comparison as the block goes on as to how my HR is coming down for that given pace
We train by TRIMP. We always do track session to time goals, to the precise second.
We don't do so much longruns, but some trailruns at controled effort.
We do some strength work and weights (lifting)
We do a lot of running form and speed drills.
Thanks Andy, I’m training by power with Stryd. Absolutely fabulous if you have a good critical power estimate. You’ll have a very good race prediction where you can input course, temperature and humidity for more accurate prediction.
Recent convert to Stryd and really useful. Hills and weather no longer an issue with pacing 🙌 ran a mountain race last weekend with it and felt really strong in the last mile.
@@philcatchy4408 👍
Great video thanks Andy! I train by heart rate with a chest strap hrm, get my zones figured out at Bath uni. But may train by a given pace as you do here next time see how that feels
I go by the HR and as someone who constantly puts earphones on, I'd find songs that match the HR BPM
I definitely do easy runs using HR or effort. Sounds risky to go by pace for easy runs as some days that will be harder to achieve than other days and then danger of building extra fatigue which could adversely impact the quality sessions? I always read that Easy pace will vary day to day so best to go on feel so easy runs are truly easy?
I definitely go by pace but with a target range for intervals/Tempo so can still adjust within that depending on how I feel on the day.
Generally train by a mixture of pace and effort with an allowance that they're not always perfectly correlated. I do use the HR only screen on easy runs though, to make sure I keep it low and don't get pace anxiety.
Cheers Andy. Currently training by heart rate for my marathon block. Taking your advice, I’m planning to do a 10k block after and probably try pace and effort for that - great video 😊👍
“If heart rate mattered you would be able to scare yourself in shape”- The Cardio Code by Kenneth Jay.
Haha I like this!
A good night sleep so much essential for running with heart rate. On race day heart rate is of no use because less sleep and anxiety the night before already keeps heart rate quite high on race day morning. The biggest reason for my heart rate to go down during runs was when I lost 6kgs of body weight.
I run by feel and from time to time check the HR and pace. This works for me most of the time. I look more at pace during workouts.
Great content as always Andy and congrats on your top result last weekend in the 10k. If i'm understanding correctly if you stick with HR as your measure, but take a look at your power output as you go through the block, assuming you improve your power will increase for the same session (as you are getting faster). Contrast this to using the power metric assuming you keep your target power figure the same over the block (would that be the plan?) you will be running at the same speed for the same session but doing so with less effort (or lower HR), assuming I have understood correctly. Hope that doesn't sound too pedantic! Keep up the good work and all the best with the rest of your block.
Thanks! Yes thats correct, not pedantic at all! A good example is this morning, did a 40 minute steady run but didnt have too much energy so managed 6:46 per mile, but ave HR was 138bpm... which at the start of the block was my easy run pace... so you can see for the effort I put in, the pace is now quicker.
I'm a hybrid HR/Power (Stryd) training guy. I use a 3 HR zone model defined by LT1 (155bpm) and LT2(182bpm) which was defined during a VO2Max test on a metabolic cart to get a HR profile to see the demarcation at LT1 and LT2. I spend most of my time sub LT1 (easy runs, pure long runs), moderate runs I try and sit right at LT1 before I get into my strides and finish the run where I have lost LT1 and I don't stress about it and just try to stay as close as I can to LT1 till finish. In my power based sessions, HR is really only analyzed after the fact, power drives the intensity. I might look at the HR between intervals during the recoveries to see how ready I am to really start the next interval, but again, it's anecdotal after the fact considerations. In longer marathon/half sessions while power still drives the targets the goal is to not cross LT2, if I do, I TRY to force myself to slow down a tad.
Great to hear Tim! Quite a few people in the comments favouring power over anything else!
Good morning. Interesting comparison. I run by pace ( road) and by HR (trailrunning). Like to Andy, A nice weekend for everyone.
Great!
I'm currently fat and going by heart rate and time. When I'm fit again, it will be pace for hard/long workouts and HR for easy runs.
So Andy, do you pencil in goal training paces for all your runs throughout the block? Or do you just do the first few weeks and then go off effort level?
I train by Stryd, can't go back to pace/HR anymore
Any tips on the 5k as I’m able to get equivalent times as to where my fitness is in other Events like 10k half and full but I just can’t seem to transfer any type of form or pace into my 5k ❤ love ur vids
I suffer the same issues when it comes to extending my speed to the half and full! All I can recommend is doing a block of specific 5k training and really dedicate some time to focusing on that distance
I guess the heart rate is very important and if it’s perfect then you can pick up the pace
Pace is better. Actually cadance is better. Energy even better.. Power Ratio on Stryd is excellent for keeping injury free. HR can make your cadance low leading to injury.
What % of your Max HR are your steady and easy HR zones?
My easy runs are usual 72% or under of my max HR and my moderate runs are around 75%/78%....My max is roughly 188, but never properly been tested.... highest ive ever seen is 186 and i reckon it can go 1/2bpm higher
I just did a park run this morning and my heart rate shot up to maximum 180+, I ran all the 30mins with a max heart rate at one point I was touching 200bpm not sure if that is safe? I am 48, I did 2k easy run as a warm up.
Everyone has a different MAX HR so its hard to say if its unsafe or not... i coach atheltes with really low HR's and really high, everyone is different
Lactate i think its for professionals
I'm using a Garmin coach ATM for half marathon, not sure what metric they're using, think it's more likely to be pace.
How does it accommodate wind and gradients into the data, wherever I go on my runs the first 5k starts with 150-200meters of climbing and my little bleeper is telling me I'm too slow (with 30mph wind in the face thrown in for good measure) this is obviously a much harder workout than a flat road with the wind behind you but the pace should be the same?
I think thats where running by effort comes into play... because if you shoot off up a hill with a small climb and you've got wind in your face, you cant realistically run at the same effort level as if it was flat or downhill with a tailwind.... so you've just got to adjust accordindly. I think using the garmin coach is great, but I would ignore the beeper in those situations and just run to the right effort level!
@TheFODRunner thank you, I'll take that on board and adjust.
I think the Garmin coach thing is aiming me at low zone 3 for my long runs (if it were flat and not windy) so I should probs just aim for that zone regardless of the conditions, to compensate for the bleeper ignoring the conditions, makes sense.
I train for pure enjoyment. 😂
Or duration
True.... I run to time/duration in my plans, I dont run to distance usually... its quite rare I have a workout in miles/km these days, usually just "50 minutes easy" or "90 minute long run" etc