Babylon 5 | S4E22 - The Deconstruction of Falling Stars | Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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I am sorry that people were spoiling things for you. I always look forward to your reactions to this and Stargate Sg-1. My only complaint is that you don't upload more frequently. The guy at the end was human. By the time our sun went super nova, we reach the same level of evolution as the Vorlons.
you really need to react to sense 8. it's another series wrote and directed by jms and is very good at a scifi level.
Very sensible. I think I've not seen the next episodes so no-spoilers would be appreciated by me too.
So NICE to see a young person watching my top show😀
"you came just as far, to say even less." That quote always stuck with me.
Her stare down of all of them though.....
@@christopherlawyer4214 Delenn _herself_ shows up and... Busted! Everybody looking like they just got caught. 😉 A withering stare if there ever was one. Even the host of the show (who kind of seemed sheepishly sympathetic to Sheridan and Delenn, maybe?) had "that look". 😜 Yep. Powerful episode. 😊
Likewise. Academics can't handle the idea of heroes. They always feel a need to deconstruct them like they're trying to make themselves feel better about their own inadequacies.
@@MasterAnubis7 Yep, deconstruct their stars and try to make them fall, thus the title ...
"As academics we have an obligation to uphold certain standards..." As an academic I have always found that line to be particularly hilarious. The irony was captured perfectly.
There are two kinds of B5 fans. Those who wish this episode wasn't made (or shown at this time), and those who love it. I love it. It shows the great scope of vision of the show, and also helps give clues as to what the show is about as a whole.
Hear hear!
Might be my favoriate but remember at the time other fans who were left flat or confused. I'm thinking, it shows that after a million years what they built endured. Something built on moral aspects lasted. Marcus was made into legend. But also showed how important it is to face up to challenges, be committed/persistent and patient - even though sometimes it may take hundreds of years (or who knows, even longer). This is when the historian in JMS really shined.
I think the episode ties in perfectly with what Jeffrey Sinclair said to the reporter about "Why Babylon 5?" "Why should we stay in space?"
JMS is a god-tier writer! 😎🤘
This episode does feel very rushed on top of a very rushed season, and it's too densely packed, but it's packed with very good stuff for the most part.
The ending of this episode is one of the most heartwarming, hopeful, and gorgeous endings of any episode of television ever made.
I’ve been watching Deconstruction as the final episode of a complete rewatch.
FAITH MANAGES
@@martintoggweiler2343 Me too. It's always reassuring to know that your own species ends up as the new all-powerful force of order to the younger races. Based on the million-year-future man's kind face, I assume we learn from the Vorlons' mistakes and don't use planet-killers.
Remember that back in season 1, when Jason Ironheart ascended, what he said - I will see you in a million years. Yeah, there are no coincidences in this show.
JMS stated that both the humans and mimbari evolved into vorlon-like energy beings, but the narn and centauri, while still around, hadn't.
But what about the Drazi?!?
Do you think the Narn and Centari lack the biological ability to assesnd into energy beings or do you think they stifled their evolution to better understand and guide the younger races? To in a sense not make of hubris the Vorlons and Shadows made by playing Gods.
@@fakecubed They didn't either. They were at war with themselves with the Purple/Green business.
@@fakecubed They ascended to a color beyond purple and green, gurple.
I think Jay Michael Straczynski said that the only races that did not evolve to Vorlon level were the Narn and Centari.
My favourite moment in all this is Delenn entering the studio where the talking heads "discuss" the events of B5. "You do not wish to learn - you wish only to speak".
Of course, Garibaldi's trick 500 years later is a close second, starting "the great burn". 1984 on overdrive.
Then there is the "order of the rangers" 😉
While this episode could have served as the finale of the series, the real finale is much more fitting to me.
Oh yes, your reaction to the final scene is great!
Garibaldi being a smug smart ass in every era is absolutely epic
Delenn's verbal beatdown of the talking heads was _glorious._ JMS has said that he has a deep dislike of this type of ivory-tower intellectual who like only to hear themselves talk, rather than engage in true intellectual discourse:
"That which you know, you ignore, because it is _inconvenient._ That which you do not know, you _invent."_
whenever i get a little too cocky, "you wish only to speak" rings in my head. keeps me humble.
Remember Iron heart when he moved to another form of existance see you in a milion years.
I think the guy at the end was meant to suggest that not only had humans embraced the principles that Sheridan and the others tried to install, but they also had transcended to a state of being similar to the Vorlons,
As I recall from when JMS was active on UseNet that's exactly what it represents. IIRC both humans and Minbari made it to first One / Elder Race status - while the Narn and Centauri have not. They didn't disappear they just didn't make the next 'big step'.
@@moriquendi32 This paid off a joke in the season 1 ep "Signs and Portents". G'kar comes around a bend to an elevator and Londo is pushing the button while a human stands there. Londo and G'kar bicker on either side of the human, until the elevator comes and the human leaves. Londo and G'kar blame each other and leave back the way they came.
And it was a callback to Sinclair's "Marilyn Monroe" speech.
@@steveaustin2686
"They are alone. They are a dying people. We should let them pass."
"Who? The Narn or the Centauri?"
"Yes."
Others may have noted this, or perhaps you noticed it yourself, but if not in either case… This episode was dircted by _Stephen Furst_ (aka Vir).
I did not know this. Thank you for sharing. Sadly due to my poor vision I don’t pay attention to the end credits.
@@lexielyons5739 jms pulled a prank on Stephen Furst about how to film the section with the monks. Here is jms comments on the social media of the time.
"'About the 2362 sequence'
Stephen filmed that sequence by having all of the cast on the set at the same time, running multiple film cameras to get each version "live."
(From a discussion of a 1997 convention featuring Stephen Furst)
BTW, if you want to flip Stephen out, and you get this before leaving the con, give him the following message from me (I don't have the hotel info at hand). Tell him Joe says this:
"Don't worry anymore about using mainly securecam style coverage in act 3, I've just come up with another approach where I can cover it in dialogue to let you do whatever you want with the camera, so you'll have all the flexibility there you want."
Here's a use of a convention you haven't seen much before....
@@lexielyons5739 Director is in the beginning along with author credits. Actors and production staff are at the end.
My favorite aspect of this episode is that it proves Kosh right. When Emperor Turhan asked "how does this end?" Kosh replied "In fire." Earth's story ends in fire, but not in darkness. Kosh foresaw this.
No because he was talking about Centauri Prime. Why would the centauri Emperor be asking how Earth ends?
While the quote is obviously open to interpretation I've always felt the "end" was B5's ending in fire something that the Centauri telepath foresaw as well. That would seem to make the most sense since that is the true end of the story, won't explain further for obvious reasons.
I believe Kosh was foreshadowing all three.
All stars will burn out eventually. Even I could make that prophecy....
MC: "It's going to be a lot of jumping about..."
Everyone else: "Haha, you have no idea! Also, Spoilers!" I recently watched the series again & the hologram scene was very sad to watch as 3 of the 4 are now dead (but they will be remembered).
As for the man at the end, 1 million years in the future, he was just a human of the time doing a last little bit of housekeeping before the sun blows up... nice little glimpse of humanity's future as something akin to the Vorlons, makes you wonder what they're up to in the galaxy.
And he was a Ranger if you look at the side of his ship
Also a nice tribute to the original "why getting into space is important." Because eventually the Earth will be no more. Although it won't naturally be because the sun went nova.
it was a million years in the future they was finally aloud inside the Vorlons old space...come to think of it didn't that psychic that ascended in season one say he'd see humans in a million years to
The Rangers/Canticle for Leibowitz section was my favourite when I first saw it. Though can now appreciate that even as a hologramatical ghost Garibaldi is still a bad ass!
Canticle for Leibowitz - what a superb story that was.
I must read it again.
Have you ever thought about the role of telepaths on Earth after The Great Burn? Do you think The Rangers bread that gene out of the Earth gene pool or do you think they train telepaths as spires and influencers? Or would they be a rogue element that no one could control?
Fantastic story.
@@lexielyons5739 I would hope that without the Psi Corps influence, telepaths would have been integrated into human society as they were in the Centauri and Minbari ones. The idea of intentionally breeding out the genes is as bad as Edgars' plan.
love what Garibaldi does here. this was such a unique episode. JMS had a great vision throughout the whole series. this is how it makes it easy to keep rewatching the series.
The joy of a nearly canceled season 5... not sure if they knew it was going to happen when they filmed this... Enjoy Season 5! 🙂
JMS got word of the reversal to end with only 4 seasons late in the game.
The inclusion of a certain name shows that this at least had a re-write after learning that they were going back to the original plan of having 5 seasons.
@@pauld6967 The Deconstruction of Falling Stars was shot along the first episodes of season 5, not as part of season 4.
@@pauld6967 I was at the Wolf359 4-day sci-fi conference in July 97, held at Norbreck Castle where the full cast and many senior production staff were present. It was there they revealed that they would get a season 5. Truly memorable.
The Guy at the end was a Ranger (looks like humans levelled up in a million years), he says ' so this is how the world ends in fire, but not in darkness" a partial callback to Kosh's words to the old Centauri emperor when the Emperor asks Kosh "how will this end?" Kosh responds "In Fire" apparently he wasn't just referring to the Centauri.
He's also Vorlon-level, maybe both G'Kar's and Lita's attempts to discover the telepath gene, and Doctor Franklin's researches into cross-species disease and genetic bore some fruit, eh?
yup
Non-spoiler but New Earth is canonically confirmed by J Michael as the former Vorlon Homeworld.
That was my guess, thanks for the confirmation, I do not do conventions these days.
The way the academics went on the news and tore down everything decent people did while lying/misrepresenting everything is *SO SO SO* relatable to today. Holy moly. Show is decades old and that part still hits me so hard.
Self-regard is a powerful and destructive tendency. When their textbooks are accepted, it lasts beyond their lives, too.
the person going into the encounter suit was a human, who had by that time evolved into something like the Vorlon.
1:20:" There's going to be a lot of jumping about"
....well, strictly speaking you're not *wrong*.
LoL
This is probably being done by others already, but by the sounds of it, you missed several key points of this episode.
The guy at the end that seemed to be Vorlon like was a human a million years into the future, to show that in the far future we turn more into Vorlons then Shadows.
The great burn was caused by the Garibaldi hologram 500 years in the future, not a civil war. The civil war spoken of was during the Clark Presidency on Earth. Just trying to clarify, not meant to spoil anything.
Actually the great burn was the start of the second earth civil war as Garibaldi gave the information of what was planned to the other side so in fact he started the second civil war also just for clarity
@@edwardhuggins84 oh, sorry. You are right of course
"in the far future we turn more into Vorlons then Shadows."
Nothing in the episode indicates we turn into Vorlons and then Shadows.
@@tulinfirenze1990 From the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 guide page for this episode. It was from the social media of the day when the ep first aired. jms' answer to the first sentence he was asked back then.
"'Did the future humans leave the galaxy as the Vorlons did?'
No point in leaving the galaxy; stars go nova, it only affects the immediate vicinity (big as that is). By this point, they were in the position of the Vorlons, and now have to take their (our) place guiding the younger races, the next wave, while not getting in the way and remembering the lesson of the shadow/vorlon conflict."
I wonder if MC remembers ages ago that access to the Vorlon home world would only be possible a million years in the future. It appears humans migrate to Vorlon now humans are advanced enough.
That was stated in the Babylon 5 movie Third Space, not in the actual series.
Yep, I assumed that was where it was going, I have heard from others that was the case but not confirmed it.
7:04 That line hits home real hard, considering Mira Furlan passed away two years ago.
I was anxiously waiting for you to get to this part. JMS is a genius. Not only delivering on great Sci-fi, but also pushing the perfect emotional buttons.
When I first saw this episode, I was away from home. We were on vacation out in the country. Bad signal, messy picture, and we wondered if we'd be able to see the whole thing.
When the picture started glitching in the first five minutes, I was ready to smash something, until I realized it was part of the show.
Wow! That must have been a blast!
This is my favourite episode. I adore the epic scope as we see what the future brings from the seeds sowed today.
This episode was filmed as the first of season 5 (you will understand why at a later point in time). They had to essentially make an episode that would have little plot impact but would still he a good season finale... so they went to the future. And it works brilliantly.
That message in the end was JMS coming back at the people who thought there wouldn't be a fifth season. He got it.
By the way, you might have noticed this, but the pin of the "good facts" guy very intentionally evokes the SS symbol. Subtle yet clear way of showing who these guys are. Also, apparently Bruce Boxleitner had a lot of fun getting to play a villain for once. He does an amazing job, it almost makes me uncomfortable.
Yeah, very 1984-ish with 'alternative facts'.
I think Bruce does a way better job as an angry villain than an angry Sheridan. As an adult I notice him chewing the scenery and his acting seems less heroically stoic 😞 Where as Delen and Evonava are still badass as I remember them!!
To all the people who kept this show running during its original outing, THANK YOU!!❤❤🙏🙏 I started watching this when they began airing this on TNT in the states. This show formed the basis for my moral character. Having strong women like Delenn and Ivanova gave me encouragement growing up. I especially like how this show encouraged me to believe in the conversation and not follow my family off a cliff with blind loyalty to the President.
One of my favourite episodes. Of anything, ever. JMS teaches something new about storytelling with every story he writes. This was his own version of some classics of sci-fi, but done in his own way, and in a way that fits with his unique story elements so well. Babylon 5 was the last, best science fiction show of the 20th century. It made people look up to the horizon, and beyond, to the heavens.
I am inclined to agree. While Star Trek DS9 had better production values I struggled to maintain interest in it and to this day have never watched the series through and don't intend to. Stargate SG-1 was technically a 90s franchise but its duration and character make it seem more like a series that belongs in the early 2000s cache of sci-fi shows.
i watched this show on tv every week as a kid, I still watch the whole stack once every couple years. some of the best sci-fi ever made.
Who was that at the end?
He was the last human to leave Earth, having evolved into a higher form of life. Humanity's future according to B5.
Remember, Jeff said we would have to go to the stars one day. That day arrived.
yep
I've read the conversations with JMS about this episode, and I think his biggest problem with it is the thing I *love* about it. The time jumps cover all of sci-fi's greatest hits.
1984/Dystopias: The Orwellian rewriting of 'RealFact' with 'GoodFact'
Foundation/Canticle For Liebowitz: The Post Apocalyptic rebuilding from time of Barbarism via religion.
Childhood's End/Stargate SG1: Ascension beyond physical form to energy beings.
Lorien, the Triad, the Walkers, and the Mindriders were all incorporal. The Shadows, Torvalus, and Kirishiac all had physical forms with the Vorlons kind of in between the two sets of First Ones.
Didn’t The Walkers communicate via hologram to Susan? I thought the hologram was a projection they chose to seem “normal” or that was their encounter suit.
@@lexielyons5739 It was a hologram, but apparently they were also incorporal.
I've been waiting for you to get to this episode. This is one of my favorite of the entire series. Seeing this take on the evolution of humans (evolving into an orb of energy/light). Garibaldi's holographic hacking, so good. As you said, the Rangers on Earth quietly guiding and rebuilding. And humans leaving the Earth for the last time because the sun has burned out. So good.
It will take longer but 1 million was a convenient number for both evolution and the sun.
The being who had been watching the vids and turned into energy and entered a Vorlon like encounter suit was a future human, a human from a million years in the future.
I don't know if this has ever been confirmed, but one theory is that the "New Earth" to which this evolved human is headed to is the original home world of the Vorlons. This theory was based on Lyta's statement that it would take at least 1 million years for humans to be advanced enough to be able to approach the Vorlon homeworld
Ironheart also said that he would wait 1 million years for the humans to catch up.
The Humans end up as the new Vorlons. ""I have looked upon the face of a Human... And nothing is the same anymore."
The Vorlon had apprentices and the apprentices had apprentices 1 million years later the the apprentices have become the masters like the Vorlon.
If you remember waaaay back in the episode Mindquake, with the one telekinetic telepath who became an energy being at the end of the episode. He basically said in that episode that he had leapfrogged through human evolution too early. Before we were ready for it. The dude in this episode is just a normal human, for his era. Humans stuck around long enough to become the new Vorlons and were preparing to say goodbye to Earth, presumably before going beyond the rim to join the other elder races.
Nah, during the episode the AI is saying that there are atypical solar emissions going on. The Sun was destroyed by someone else and the First One-ish Humans moved to a new Earth. They used encounter suits for the same reason that Vorlons did, so they could move among the younger races without showing that they became incorporal beings.
I always felt like he was referring to the Vorlon’s home world as New Earth, since someone says you will only be allowed there in a million years, as characters talk about the planet briefly.
I love the implications in this episode that we go the way of the Centauri, but ultimately end up like the Vorlons.
The ending of this episode the last part with the encounter suit and the message of thanks from the creators was so perfectly done. This episode stunned me when it came out.
I have just binged all your B5 vids since the beginning of the week after hearing about you in a B5 Facebook Group…it as been a honour watching your reactions and watching you fall in love with the greatest to show ever made…these stories will be with you for the rest of your life and like us, your life will never be the same…enjoy season 5 😍😍😍
It's been briefly mentioned why this episode was written the way it was. But if you'll allow me I can expound on it a bit.
Babylon 5 was Syndicated from the beginning. That meant that no broadcast network had ownership of the production itself, only the broadcast rights. Granted they still took the Lions share of the ad revenue, but it still gave JMS the freedom to do things the way he wanted. And at the end of season 4 it gave him the opportunity to save his 5th season.
The major plot lines for this show were written out from the beginning. And while there were several adjustments along the way it was still written for 5 seasons. But at the end of season 4 there was a lot of shaking up happening in TV broadcast networks in the USA. If I remember correctly UPN was just being created by buying up several smaller networks across the country to form a new nationwide station. And B5 was on one of the major networks that got bought out. And the new owners wanted to make room for new programming so they canceled B5.
But since it was Syndicated JMS was able to shop around and eventually do a deal with Fox. But while he was still shopping they had the last cpl episodes of season 4 to film. Still not knowing if he was getting a season 5 he decided to write a send off episode just in case.
It's also why season 4 feels rushed. It was never intended for both the Shadow War and the War to Liberate Earth happen in the same season. But JMS was told early into season 4 that B5 was getting canceled so he started completing as many major plot lines as he could.
That "Vorlon" suit was indicating that the human species had become the new "Old ones".
The Back story to "New Earth"that the future Ranger mentions is that New Earth is the Vorlons Homeworld.
Those of us were there since the beginning; some who talked down friends from abandoning B5 at the end of the first season, chased our beloved show through ever shifting times and channel changes; discovered to our delight that several of the online chat rooms we occupied might bring honored and often anonymous visitors from the show itself. Yes, B5 was as invested in the fans as we were in them. Except for JMS; who was constantly dodging those with endless speculation about the 5 year arc. He didn't want someone to accidentally spoil it for the rest of the fans. Later at WorldCon 56, in Baltimore Maryland, 1998. he would say that only one fan guessed the entire arc; more or less from beginning to end. That con was interesting as it's main guest: JMS, couldn't come because he was recovering from walking pneumonia and his buddy, Harlan Ellison insisted he stay at home to fully mend. Still we got a conference feed from him for a Q&A session. Can't wait to see what you think about Season 5, Medusa; and remember that Faith Manages. 😎👍
🤣🤣 Your confusion / befuddlement is the exact mirror of every B5 viewers' reaction regards the beginning of this episode.
You will never fully understand ANY B5 episode until you have seen it all twice.
I love this episode. Its my favourite in the whole run. The epic scale was wonderful, culminating in the revelation that humanity were the new Vorlons.ĺ
Back in season 3 there was an episode named "Sic Transit Vir". The name of that episode was derived from Latin "Sic transit gloria mundi" meaning "Thus passes the glory of the world". I think JMS likes this phrase: In this episode the person standing next to Garibaldi carries a sign with this phrase (can't see it in this reaction, it is just a moment before the scene at 1:47). And at the end of this episode, the Vorlon-Human says "This is how the world ends".
I love this episode. And I loved your reaction to it.
It is so great seeing these characters being so awesome! "Old Delenn" absolutely "owning" the arrogant academics who were tearing down the legend of Sheridan, was GREAT.
Every time I see that, I think that they were lashing out because of their OWN inadequacies & insecurities. And it reminds me of something Brother Theo's friend Will said, "That is the problem, people today have been CONNED into thinking they can't change the world. But the world is changing all the time. The only question is who is doing it."
Those academics don't "believe", so they deconstruct anyone who did change the world!
Also? Making a perfect replica of Garabaldi's devious, investigative brain to exploit for propaganda? Was their FIRST mistake! lol
Oh, and kind of a tiny spoiler, that LAST guy? He was just a Human. That's all. Of course, he was a human from 1,000,000 years (& evolution) in the future! (When humanity has become rather Vorlon-esk.)
And his encounter suit sports a ranger badge.
@@socratesrocks1513 Yep. So does the ship.
Lorien said, before he left, “it is up to you now, to shepherd and guide the younger races, until the time when you can join us, beyond the Rim.” Maybe the energy-humans are finally at that point, to travel beyond the Rim following the Techno-Mages and First Ones.
@@wisemoon40 From the episode page of the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5. This was jms comment on the social media of the time, answering a question.
"'Did the future humans leave the galaxy as the Vorlons did?'
No point in leaving the galaxy; stars go nova, it only affects the immediate vicinity (big as that is). By this point, they were in the position of the Vorlons, and now have to take their (our) place guiding the younger races, the next wave, while not getting in the way and remembering the lesson of the shadow/vorlon conflict."
Reminds me of the lectures on the Founding Fathers from ivy-leaguers
Sorry that you've had to deal with spoilers - STILL! Amazing, really amazing.
This is amongst my own personal favourite episodes of Babylon Five. Who can resist such a title as 'The Deconstruction Of Falling Stars'? My Surrealist self was hooked on that one!
Cool reaction! When you mentioned your expectations in the beginning of this episode, I was thinking to myself - "oh, will she be surprised". :)
I remember tuning in late the first time I watched this episode and thought I had missed Babylon5 or that some 'discussion programme' had replaced it.
One million years. Our sun is going nova, we have evolved. And are moving to new Earth (Vorlon home world). Humans are now like the Vorlon. Cool!
Do you remember when Ironheart evolved into an energy being, and he said I'll see you all in a million years? Now you know what humans look like a million years from now.
Basically that guy at the end was the evolution of mankind when after a million years abouts Humans evolved into forms of energy and now use encounter suits. He was downloading records because the Earth's sun was about to go super nova. Hence the reference to New Earth.
The device even specifically mentions 1 million years.
Completely brilliant. An amazing way to cap the (supposed) end of the show, showing the ripples of the events of Babylon 5 throughout future history. And it was so cool to see what humanity will become in a million years.
Ok one more thing. After a million years we humans have evolved and turned into what the Vorlons were.
"Good facts, facts the government...has endorsed."
Very 1984ish to have 'alternative facts'.
The amount of times you have said to the effect of "I never would have thought of" whilst watching this show : D!
This has always been one of my favourite episodes.
I always thought this was an underrated episode. I like the idea that human progress is cyclical. We pull ourselves up out of the muck, prosper for a while, and inevitably that prosperity fades into another time of darkness. Then humanity pulls itself up again and the cycle starts over, each time rising just a little higher than the last cycle until eventually humans become something like the Vorlons, who moved past the cycles of self-destruction.
JMS explained this concept much better than I did on some Usenet post from 30 years ago you might find if you google it.
So glad to finally see this one. Honestly one of, if not my favorite in the series. The power of right over might and the hope of permanency to things. The monks were just amazing, and to end it with humans in encounter suits and using organic ships. Just wow
Something that I love about 90s "genre" TV is that it was willing to take risks and do curve ball episodes like this one (or "Lower Decks" in TNG, "The Body" and "Once More, With Feeling" in Buffy).
There's a lot of subtle callbacks to earlier episodes in this one:
Presumably the memory symbiote aliens from "Exogenesis" are still around after The Great Burn to assist with the rebuilding of Earth.
Moving/fleeing to New Earth in 1 million years ties back to Jason Ironheart in season 1's "Mind War" when he said he would meet them again in a million years time.
9:00 to me, this is Garibaldi's chance to redeem himself for betraying Sheridan (even if he didn't have a choice). It also ties back to Sebastian/Jack from "Comes The Inquisitor" when he asked Delenn if she was willing to lay down her life for a friend, in the dark, where no one will know.
The guy's "noooo!" and run away is just delicious.
This is the episode of the entire series on which I think most often as time passes. The nods to "Canticle" and the final ascension of humanity are just sublime, and put the context of the previous story into the widest frame possible for any narrative. It was astonishing when it first aired, and remains special to this day. And that title, "the deconstruction of falling stars", is my second favourite to "passing through Gethsemene" and one yet to come in your viewing, which is my favourite for its simplicity and beauty. How many shows have titles like that? Thank you for sharing your reactions, it's been wonderful seeing the station again through your eyes.
Delenn breaking into the newsroom is the best
Nice finally this one, its different but still personally my favorite of season 4... Watching it at broadcast it was something special, since an episode like this hadnt been done before as far as i am aware.
It was a delightful way to put the events of the season in perspective. Seeing the future wrought by repercussions of those actions from Babylon 5.
By the time they finished up Season 4 they had not the green light for Season 5. They had to go on the assumption that this episode was the end of the show.
Originally the Shadow War was supposed to play out through all of Season 4, leaving the ousting of President Clark to Season 5.
Well - almost. This one was not supposed to be the final episode, though the season was. Something else was supposed to be aired in this place and this season finale was kind of filmed in replacement once season 5 was greenlit (I might not make sense, trying to be vague as to not spoil anything)
The Shadow War was going to last longer, but not the whole season. Season 4 was originally going to end on the cliffhanger of Sheridan being betrayed by Garibaldi and in Clark's hands.
@@codyw1 Nah, jms said that the season cliffhanger would have been with Sheridan being interrogated in "Intersections in Real Time". The following is jms comment from the social media of the time from the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 page for ep 418.
"I don't usually comment on this, but...if I had known *with absolute certainty* that there would be a season 5, then season 4 would have ended with 418, "Intersections in Real Time." So you only pull 4 episodes forward, really. You'll understand when you see it."
When a series does a clip show its usually with flashbacks and the reusing of footage. What I liked about this episode was it took that concept and went forward instead but not in so much detail that it prevented future twists and turns in the actual show.
And here’s something else that will get ya. Michael Ironheart back in season One told Sinclair that he will see him in 1 million years. This alluded to the humans transcending into Vorlon like life forms and alludes to sort of an afterlife I believe.
This is the episode that lays out JMS's philosophy of history in very explicit terms. The academics debating about Sheridan and the Alliance, those kinds of ideas are held by many academics today, that everything in history can be boiled down to inevitable social movements, rather than individual great people who make choices that move societies in new directions. JMS takes the more individual-focused approach. The heroes in the story are not generic social forces, they're real people, doing things that others in their positions would not have done.
There's a lot to be said about this episode and I think a lot of the comments here have covered most of it.
But I will say this. The one thing that still makes me tear up is seeing Garibaldi back on good terms with his friends. And saving them. It's so good to see that rift healed. They are all better together.
Ahh, here it is! 😂😂 mind blown time.
I always remember how Jason Ironheart said, "I will see you again...a million years from now."
jms once said, "after repeatedly pulling a rabbit out of your hat, you damn well better pull out an alligator." i think this episode qualifies.
Baby alligators are cute and sound like baby chicks.
One of my favourite episodes without a doubt. Beautiful ending.
Even as a hologram, never try and pull any crap when Garabaldi is around. He'll beat you with your own stick every time.
i loved this episode because it shows the rise and fall of earth and humankind but then the rebirth and with the guy at the end showing humans finally reaching the stage of humans now evolved to the level of the first one now beings of energy becoming like the vorlons and the other first races that had gone beyond the rim
I loved this episode. It was partially a love letter to some classic science fiction. You have notable nods to 1984 and Canticle For Lebowitz in it. It also connects to the repeated themes of myth making which happen throughout the show.
We live for the one. We die for the one
Well medusa in case your wondering the end of this episode has humans evolving into first ones like the vorlons in 1 million years.
Third space should be watched next. Good reaction!
She's already seen it.
@@tulinfirenze1990 Yeah, I think so, being the UK the orders are all mixed around. We all saw these decades ago. I guess I should watch Season 1 of Doctor Who??
Remember all the way back in the first season when Jason Ironheart said something along the lines of meeting again in a million years?
And the dedication at the end of the episode is a jab at the real-life critics of the show who didn't think a TV series with an overarching plot could succeed, or a sci-fi show that didn't follow the Star Trek formula could work.
Faith manages.
This episode is 😙👌 Humans surviving 1m+ yrs and evolving into energy and using a suit similar to the vorlons... The story/cycle never ends. I hope we did better with th younger races then the latter😅
Thanks for the vids spent the day watching, was great catching up on B5 and seeing someone else's view 👍
Zathras - "The story that leads to the next great story", er something similar
This was made at the end of the season because they were told that the network would not renew the show. They didn't know another network would pick it right up. So this was made in case it had to be the final word on B5 from the point of view of the humans who had evolved in the passing million years to become non material beings like the vorlons.
It's worth noting that Season 5 was in jeopardy, so JMS made sure to have some kind of good end for the series if S4 was to be the last.
Facts and reality are usually blurred over the passage of time. The truth gets distorted or embellished, information is lost, people get overlooked, public perceptions change, and history gets rewritten constantly down the ages. All we can do is our best in the moment, and hope we're remembered well. There's a quote in Star Trek, supposedly said by Warp Drive creator Zephram Cochrane: "Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man, and let history make its own judgments." Ironically, when the Enterprise crew meet this highly revered scientist they've admired all their lives, they naturally expect him to be "great". Instead, he turns out to be an unspectacular, selfish, irresponsible drunk who just happened to make the universe better. Time and perception are funny that way, take from it what you will.
I loved the last scene. For me, it was showing that humanity had reached the level of the First Ones and they were about to join them beyond the rim.
The talk about New Earth seemed more about staying in the galaxy. The Vorlons used encounter suits to keep the younger races from recognizing them and this suit was likely the same. Hopefully they are better stewards than the Vorlons and Shadows.
Now that Medusa C has seen 'Sleeping in Light', notice how that episode comes right after this one?
They didn't know they would get a season 5 so the season 4 finale was also written so it could be a finale for all of B5 if they didn't get renewed. As for the guy he is Human and in the extended lore it mentions that the Humans and the Minbari both evolved into beings of energy like the Vorlans did and New -Earth is the old Vorlon homeworld
To explain some ofthe most ambiguous points in this episode: One millions into the future, the Alliance was still going strong, even when some races composing it (humans and Minbari, among others presumably. JMS stated that neither the centauri nor the Narn ever got there) achieving First Ones status. But the Sun was going Nova (much earlier than expected - suggesting that some enemies of the Alliance were responsible) and Earth had to be evacuated.
One ofthe last (maybe the last) to leave wa a Ranger, in charge of compiling the historical records of the Alliance and their impact on mankind. These records were what we saw in the episode.
In fact, acording to some interviews, the entire show was a historical recreation of the events leading to the early days of the Interstellar Alliance.
"But the Sun was going Nova (much earlier than expected - suggesting that some enemies of the Alliance were responsible)" - or that JMS really has no feel for cosmological time. He was always using "thousand" to mean a lot of years (it isn't), and his use of "million" here is just more evidence. JMS could have consulted actual astrophysicists, but his thing was always the interpersonal stories and not the big picture.
@@TheDanEdwards that was my first impression, too, but he mande a point of mentioning the shortened time frame in an old posting.
@@TheDanEdwards The AI in the episode mentions "atypical solar emissions" were happening. The Sun was made to explode early.
This episode was very clearly JMS going 'you know what? I've got my final season, I can write whatever the fuck I want'.
Found your reviews on this series a few months back, although I have seen every episode 'Several times actually', it's one of my favourite shows along with SG1. seeing your reaction to this episode, I was the same when I saw it, many years ago.
Glad to see others enjoying the show even now.
Humans as the proto-Vorlons. We've graduated, and may be fit to shepherd the newer races. Sure hope we don't have a proto-Shadow competitor.
From the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 page for this episode. This is jms comment on the social media of the time answering a question.
"Did the future humans leave the galaxy as the Vorlons did?'
No point in leaving the galaxy; stars go nova, it only affects the immediate vicinity (big as that is). By this point, they were in the position of the Vorlons, and now have to take their (our) place guiding the younger races, the next wave, while not getting in the way and remembering the lesson of the shadow/vorlon conflict."
We do, that is why the sun is unstable after only a puny million years, not billions.
This show knew how to do season finales!
The writing of this episode was fantastic: It mixed together sequences from a thousand or so years In a coherent compelling story.
Plus I LOVE their version of "Canticle For Lebinowitz".
And the holographic characters taking out the despotic society was priceless!
Episode 20: the final climactic battle to save earth from Clark.
Episode 21: the immediate political aftermath
Episode 22: was it all worth it?
The end
I wonder if “new earth” was originally the Vorlon home world.
It was.
At this point it wasn't certain that Babylon 5 would have a fifth season, so JMS intended that this episode would act as a finale if it wasn't renewed.