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Babylon 5 | S3E19 - Grey 17 Is Missing | Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2022
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Hi, channel mod! Thanks! :)
Yeah! Thanks channel mod! You're doing unsung work!
makes perfect sense :)
*J. Michael Straczynski:* _"I think it's about 3/4ths of a good episode. Where it falls down, for me, is the Zarg... I just have this constant desire to go to everyone's house and personally apologize..."_
He also said that he can't actually remember writing those parts of the episode. He was quite sick at the time and apparently in a kind of fever delirium 🤒😅
tbh, If this is what he comes up with in delirium, I'll take it!
Genius writing.
While I don't like this episode much it does seem JMS can write better handicapped than most people can in full possession of their falcalties.
@@decam5329 seriously I don’t think it’s a bad episode just strange. The fever writing explains it perfectly
I founx the critter oddly fitting.
Because the aliens in b5 are either humanoid or the weirdest creepers imaginable.
I love Garibaldi's philosophical questions:
-Why is it always thin air? Why not chubby air, why not "mostly-fit-could-stand-to-lose-a-few-pounds-air"?
fasten zip or zip fasten?
Crazy that the saying in german is "dicke Luft" wich translates to "thick/fat air" 😁
Neroon is a good antagonist; he's biased but reasonable by the standards of his logic, and he makes a very good point despite his chauvinism -- he's wrong about Delenn, we know he's misjudged her character, but the wider point is a reasonable one. Great character.
Neroon ended up being one of my favorite characters.
There's a story that the actor playing Marcus never actually knew if he would still have a job after this episode until just before filming his scene. He was initially not told if he survived the fight or not. The script he was given left him as a body covered with blood.
The thing about Neroon is that he starts as an echo chamber: he thinks Delenn's motivations are the same as his own: personal glory and gain. But, he learns, at least for now, that Delenn and Marcus work differently from him. It's so sad that the Zarg plot falls flat as the other half is absolutely fascinating.
I love the complexity of Neroon's character and that we've now seen him twice in just three episodes. "You talk like a Minbari" indeed.
I like the poetic way you said that. We have now seen him twice in just three episodes. Indeed. In Legacies and here we see the real Neroon, idealistic, proud, heroic, honorable warrior -- stuck in a long cultural crisis, at odds with the conflicting information he and his whole caste have been denied until recently regarding the major war they fought ten years earlier and its very difficult reasoning for Minbari resignation at its end. In season two's All Alone in the Night, he appeared merely to reiterate the rage of his whole caste. He basically was a nightmare figure to Delenn during an episode essentially about nightmares for both herself and Sheridan, as they both faced the trials of their transition to the great leaders of the "side of light". Now, he's back as a complex figure again, able to both be an aggressor and listen and observe, the show's example for the best of the Warrior Caste. And we know this will lead from watching this to more intriguing times to come. Two appearances of the real Neroon indeed, in just three episodes.
The password of "Harriet" to access Dr. Franklin's underground railroad files hearkens back to Harriet Tubman, a 'conductor' of the Underground Railroad leading escaped slaves to the safety of Canada.
RE: Marcus being more like a Mimbari than Neroon expects. He has a VERY similar reaction to Sinclair when they first meet. "You talk like a Mimbari" I always suspected that Jeff's style of speech and taste in art had a major influence upon Mimbari culture, so THEY sound like HIM.
Yep. You have to love that about the situation. Not to mention whenever you hear a Minbari say "In Valen's Name" we're talking about him.
"I'm not sufficiently transcendent yet" is the best line of this episode.
While it is a good one, I am thinking better of Marcus' request to Neroon about revelations. Each to his own taste 😉
Loved your review. This is the last "weak" episode for a very long time, although I think the Ranger B story redeems the weak main plot. I can't wait to see your next few reactions.
If they swapped the A and B stories this would be MUCH better regarded.
It feels like the title was thought up first, and the episode had to be formed around it.
I just think with everything that’s been going on we needed a break, so this was supposed to be a nice fun little breath out for a moment break
I've always seen this episode as an exercise in pacing - after a pretty intense episodes, the series takes a step back, takes a deep breath, and does something slightly silly.
I was so looking forward to this reaction vid. There was no doubt in my mind that Delenn being asked to serve as Ranger One would bring you a smile.
The Marcus/Neroon interactions are the best part of the episode. I've always liked Neroon though, he's the traditional Warrior who believes in the value of those traditions. But he's not completely inflexible or without humor.
The missing level plot was kinda.......yeah.
You know, so many people crap on this episode, but it's honestly one of my favorites. Garibaldi gets some story love, you get a "cameo" by Robert Englund, and it's a fun relief from a lot of the serious story building up. Also, I enjoy any time the show highlights background or tertiary characters.
Ahhh, here we are!- the infamous 'Grey 17 is missing'!
Considered by many the worst episode of B5, JMS himself disliked it & as I'm sure many have said: went on record that he wanted to apologize to everyone - particularly for the creature effects!
Personally, while I agree with the creature part, I enjoyed a greater look into the Minbari and Marcus & Neroon's fight was awesome!
It's a bit of a filler, but it's (to me!) a pretty good episode, & let's face it: 'the worst B5 episode', still beats the best of some shows!!
This is by far not the worst episode of B5, Season 5 has plenty. BUT, you know, not everything is going to be a spectacular or big thing, sometimes, small mystery leads to fanatic nutjobs and shit just goes weird. I think, if anything this episode in the grand scheme lends credence to the lived in reality of B5, they got it all from the strange, to the Eldritch horror, to the mundane and misunderstood. Top to bottom and all points, including Grey17, inbetween. Sometimes the banal really lets other things stand out. JMS doesn't like the A plot, I give you that, but all writers, myself included, have areas of their work where they just shake their heads and wonder what they were thinking. This is one of those, but the b plot more than made up for it to me.
I maintain that TKO is way worse. Grey 17's main issue IMO is the pacing issue of putting a filler episode in the middle of the shadow war. It's the same reason I HATED the Walkabout plot point. If Franklin went walkabout before or after the shadow war I'd be fine, but every time you cut away from the climax of the entire show to watch a guy whine at himself... It's death by pacing issue.
Yeah, I tend to think this is "one of" the Worst episodes of the Series. Not "God awful" per se, but "bad". Like, "I don't care if I never re-watch it" bad.
Basically, IF the whole "Grey 17 is missing" part of the story (the Primary? part) was ejected, or replaced with something else, maybe it COULD have been a good episode.
It DID have enjoyable parts & universe building OUTSIDE of that plotline. And yet, even though Garabaldi is my FAVORITE character, for a Garabaldi centric sub-plot, it kind of sucked.
Which, sort of ruined the entire "stew" (episode) for me. It's nice that SHE seemed to enjoy it. And I don't criticize others who do either. But I am glad we have moved past it.
Actualy a key background moment and moment for the story line.
But it does help explain why Grey Sector was considered the Bermuda Triangle of Babylon 5.
Apparently, JMS was heavily medicated for a cold while writing this (and doing all his showrunner duties), and it kind of shows
The a storyline of Grey 17 is just pure camp and if you take it on those terms is actually quite enjoyable. When Garibaldi at the end of the episode is attempting to explain the weird things that happened to him and then pauses and says "am I going to fast for you?" I just burst out laughing like you did MC!
If it hadn't been for the creature from the black lagoon, if it had instead just been a secret reclusive society with strict rules, this storyline could have worked very well. Or course the Marcus parts are brilliant.
With Michael Myers running Skull & Bones
I think your run-through of the classic Dr Who series has probably prepared you well for not being quite so derailed by the Zarg as some of us were the first time we saw it!
the zarg was boilerplate big bad schlock cheese but it didn't derail me from the ep when it aired... b5 has lots of aliens some that make Morn from ds9 look handsome by comparison. Stands to reason some are gonna look schlocky here and there.
mm.. bbc would be proud of this
An episode all about honoring Delenn. You'll probably love this.
Also, the best pike fight in the series, a creepy mystery, and Robert Englund vs a creature with Freddy Kreuger claws. All told, a good episode.
Yea, this is the episode we all fell in love with Marcus.
I always think of this episode as a character development episode for Neroon. He starts to gain respect for Delenn and the Rangers. I do agree about Robert England's costume. The Elm Street movies were still pretty fresh in all our minds in the mid 90's. it was nice to see him acting in a dramatic role.
I enjoyed Jeremiah's performance aka: Robert Englund (Freddy Kreuger). Especially when he gives his speech. "Contemplate the hand..." I always saw that as a Nightmare On Elm Street reference as he holds out his extended hand, like Freddy Kreuger.
Funny thing. Straczynski went on to write the series Jeremiah. Where he goes to The End of the World.
according to JMS, he wanted to go door to door and personally apologize for the Zarg 🤣
Science fiction needs to stay away from the letter Z in order to be taken seriously. Babylon 5 already fell prey to the alien apostrophe.
I really do love Neroon! He's a really good character and Marcus earning his respect and his realization that the rest wouldn't follow him as they do Delenn in this episode is so huge. Plus, every time I look at my car tag I hear him drag out "En. Til. Zha".
The Zarg is pretty much a throw away story.
The main points are the caste differences in Minbari culture, the effects of the Minbari council being broken, Neroon and Marcus fight and outcome from said fight, and finally, John and Delen's growing love story.
Overall, a good Minbari background and development story.
Love your reactions ❤️
More fun and emotional episodes coming!
Personally I really love this episode for Marcus and Neroon. Even though the main story isn't so hot I can think of many worse episodes. So can't see why some fans consider it one of the worst.
I die every time I watch this episode, if Severed Dreams is the pinnacle of the season, this is definitely the other end of the spectrum.
I personally don't have a problem with this episode that some others have, JMS himself hates the episode, and swears it was the longest write of the whole season. The A story is pretty lame and the Zarg is pretty lame too. But I personally love the B plot and the C plot with Ivanova getting information about the underground railroad from Stephen shows us where he is in his walkabout and is furthering the Shadow war effort. You do get a quiet character conversation between Delenn and Sheridan where she shares more of her backstory and talking about her parents a little which we have not gotten much about. The real problem with the episode is that the B and C plots can't be expanded enough to fill the A story of the episode. I get the criticism, Michaels part is more like something out of the first season of the show in the episodes before the story finds its footing, but I don't think it deserves the hate it gets. It's not TKO.
Personally, I love this episode. It manages a little light relief, it manages to give Garibaldi a spot light and more than that it gives a moment of contrast. These events of galaxy wide importance are playing out with our main characters, the outcome of the war possibly pivoting on who becoems Ranger One - but the rest of life for most people is just going on as they try to make their way. Yes the A plot is not the strongest, for sure. The fact we get this glimpse of Garibaldi just being Garibaldi and doing his detective work so he doesn't have to focus on all the problems way out of his league, I love that. I also love the ending, Sheridan is frustrated and Garibaldi deflects and defuses with humour, which is normally his secret weapon before he punches someone. I hope he did not punch Sheridan.
Still goes to show the quality-bar this show sets if this is widely considered the worst episode of the series.
I'll take this episode a dozen times over the DS9 Elamaraine episode for example. :P
I generally think of this episode as a continuity bubble caused by a nonlinear production schedule. When they established the War Room, someone (Garibaldi, I think) remarked at how did they build a place like this and keep it completely secret? Now we find out about a whole level of Grey Sector that no one ever knew about before. I figured they took over Grey 17 after Garibaldi killed the Zarg and flushed out the crazy cultists, and built the War Room and related other spaces there. But then this episode aired later than that one. A lot later. So... continuity bubble.
Interesting side note: The dummy that shot tranqs out of its eyes, was Alfred E. Neuman, the masthead of Mad Magazine. "What, me worry?"
One thing was missing in the show's third season-Kane Hodder
'Grey 17' is regarded as the weakest B5 episode, and to be fair, the premise isn't particularly well developed. However, the Neroon sequences are gold. Especially his revelation when fighting Marcus.
Neroon isn't a 'bad' guy, as such, you might not agree with his point of view, but he IS honourable..
Eh, Grail and a few others are strong contenders for weakest too, @Tom Baxter . By contrast, Infection I found a fairly decent episode, with some awkward handling of ideas.
Grey 17 does have an excellent subplot, which makes up somewhat for the weak main one.
And Neroon is a - sore loser. As many Warrior Caste were, about the war, and some other concerns.
If you discount two or three first season eps, yeah this one is the weakest as the “A” story doesn’t satisfy but the Minbari “B” storyline is stellar. JMS seldom failed to connect strongly on all his narrative arcs, but Garibaldi’s survivor yarn at the end is sort of funny.
I like this episode as it had been awhile since we had a Garabaldi centered story.
Shows how tenacious he will be to solve a mystery. Yes, he will ride an elevator 18 floors counting the time it takes.
While I am not so fond og the Grey 17 stuff in this episode, I **adore** the Entil'Zha plot, especially the Marcus and Nerroon parts.
Marcus' request to Neroon "Next time you want a revelation ...." Is really one of the highlights of this episode, to me, especially Neroon's reaction.
Neroon seems to be a more interesting character than we thought, or what?
In some gigsaw puzzles there'll be a very odd shaped piece. It may or may not be important but it has it's place...
14:57 the word you're looking for is convent, a nunnery, although interesting because at least in Catholicism, married women don't usually become nuns as apparently Delenn's mother did.
The great Robert Englund on B5.
Freddie Krueger making his B5 appearance
You won't believe this, but, I saw a gloved hand walk with it's fingers quickly on the tartan plaid behind you. Ok! I made that up. I liked the some what confused expression with this Episode.
I hated the idea that there was a section "missing". Especially the idea that Garabaldi would never have heard of it till now.
The physics of Garibaldi's 'gun' do not work. I'm not a scientist but I can see that quite clearly. The only charge that would go off would be the back one, which would then try to push all the bullets in one go which mean if it worked at all they would be travelling much slower with less power.
Love Marcus' talking to Neroon in medlab!
Considering the size of the pipe to the bullet, it would have gone off, rattled around in the tube and probably just fell out the other size with little more effect than flicking a peanut at someone.
@@TheMsLourdes You are right about what would've happened if a bullet did go off in that loose fitting pipe. A small caliber round is pretty harmless without a properly fitting chamber and barrel helping generate enough pressure to propel it at a decent velocity. At best, Garibaldi's "gun", could've put out Zarg's eye. However, steam coming out of a utility pipe wouldn't be nearly hot enough to set off a cartridge. Both primers and casings are designed to handle very high temperatures, as firearm chambers get insanely hot during rapid fire. If you start dumping a bunch of mags in full-auto, there will come a point where it will get hot enough to set off rounds without primer strikes (from the high temperature alone), making the gun malfunction but at that point, the temperatures involved will be making your steel barrel glow red. So, this scene is completely unrealistic
Seems you've gone Down Under, I do hope you have a wonderful trip. *Have you a PO Box for sending you things?* I inadvertently ordered a duplicate of the *Babylon 5* novel _"To Dream in the City of Sorrows."_ It's about Jeff's time on Minbar, from an outline by JMS written by his wife Kathleen Drennan. So, it's not only a canonical story, but it's a quick/easy read. I think you'll enjoy it.
I saw on twitter a week or so ago she's got it already
I love Marcus. He is definitely the kind of guy you want in your corner.
Neroon is such a baller. Took down markus handily. The guy that brawls Bars worth of assclowns.
There's something that bothers me about this episode. Minibari do not kill Minbari, yet they have the concept of challenging one to a fight to the death.
I was just thinking the samething 🤔
This is addressed in the novel "To Dream in the City of Sorrows". According to Sinclair, by invoking or accepting the challenge of denn-shah, both combatants agree to take responsibility for their own death, absolving the other of any responsibility for killing them.
I always found Neroon interesting, in the few episodes we have had of him there has been something about how the actor portrayed him that I liked, even though he seems to be in antagonistic roles on the show. This episode in his dialog at the end you can see something has changed now, like a veil has been removed from his eyes and he's seeing things a little different cause of his altercation with Marcus.
Can I just say something. I think Geribaldi has a lot of Bruce Willis. The delivery, the voice, even the hair a little :D Next time you see Geribaldi in a scene close your eyes and think Bruce Willis honestly. To me he's just as cool.
This episode brings up an important rule to keep in mind when talking to B5 fans: We do not talk about Mr. Garibaldi's acid trip in Grey Sector.
I always remember the missing level shenanigans and forget the more important storyline around Delenn and Neroon :)
I love your reactions to the show, I watched it years ago for the first time and really find you helping with that amazement. I look forward to seeing your reactions to some specific ones in the future - no spoilers.
Could the pike master that both Neroon and Marcus say they trained under be the "very special friend" who gifted Marcus his pike?
these videos are a nice treasure for me to come home to, thank you :)
There is always one episode. And this is it. Of course considering every episode around it, and season 3 as a whole, it probably gets a worse reputation than it should.
This one is funny I forget that the Markus beat down is in this Ep. I always remember the Garibaldi side of it when I think of this Ep's name.
Mira Furlan, aka Delenn, was 38 when Babylon 5 started so she would be about 40 in season 3. I imagine Delenn is around that age as well.
They don’t necessarily age at the same rate as humans. I think there’s been indications they live to be a lot older. Plus, we know she was on the Gray Council at the start of the war with Earth, which was 12 years before the series starts (10 years after a 2 year war). 26 would be pretty young for that position.
According to the B5 wiki the average life expectancy for a Minbari is around 120-140. But also states that she was born in the earth year 2202, so would be 58 when this is set.
@@johnsmith8906 which seems about right :)
Each of the color sectors on the station is a sphere and each of the sphere has rings inside of it that make up the levels. So there is a place where Grey 17 (between 16 and 18) should be... but supposedly they never built a floor there. I guess they did build something, it's only half finished.
I don't think B5 is layed out the way you think it is. This is an oNeil cylinder, the levels are just thut, concentric cylinders below the main open area that has farmland, trees, hydroponics, all that good stuff. The forward bubble houses docking, ships, administration, cnc, etc, the rest is broken up into sections cylindrically from front to back. Down Below is in brown sector on the outermost hull section of the cylinder. There's maps, and you can see the internal representations on screens in many episodes that break it up thusly. Grey sector is toward the aft of the station, where alot of mechanicals are located btb. THus the zealots making grey 17 disappear was a pretty nice feat of electronic and mechanical and computer hacking (to make the area disapear quietly off the station radar, and even garibaldi's radar) which fits.
This comment is background story not spoiler in my opinion.
The actor for Marcus told a story about this episode during a con reunion panel.
Bill Mummy/Lenier and some of the other cast played a joke on him. Lenier came up to Marcus. Have you seen the script. I am sorry, said Lenier.
The cast/ except Mira Furlan joined in Marcus was worried so (Marcus) panicked and peeked to the writers room. Marcus peeked into the computer and saw and the script said Neroon struck the final blow.
I really love Neroon. His character arc was fairly great.
The freddy claw was intentional the actor who played the cultist is Robert England the original freddy kreuger actor
What happened with Grey 17 was interesting, yes, but Marcus willing to lay down his life for Delenn was really powerful. An interesting episode all round.
Grey 17 is Missing was inspired by the US architectural superstition around 13th floors leading to "phantom floors" on many of the first skyscrapers. The same idea has been explored in the X Files (dat more successful rival again) and more recently in Batman with the Court of Owls building their safehouses into the 13th floor of EVERY BUILDING IN GOTHAM!
A little bit of a wild ride, but at least Garibaldi explains it all clearly and succinctly at the end there... :)
when Neroon laughts you worry lol
Marcus challenges Naroon to single combat and manages to keep his perfect hair!
I liked the cameo of "Freddie Kruger" or at least the actor that plays him. As the cult leader.
Marcus is a great example of a Ranger. JMS is great at getting the right actor for the right role.
"I just want to cut John's hair." Actually, I think he's cuter like this.
Absolutely! He has fantastic hair!
This is the A Nightmare on Elm Street episode.
By my estimation, Robert Englund should've received a lot more acting roles than he had and never truly received his due praise - all because the horror film genre isn't taken as seriously by the academy as dramas or even comedies.
No, she'd give it all to his family, it would be the only thing she would think to do
this is the only thing i can never understand not just in B5 but in any movie, i worked constructions and in maintenance for over 20 years and i have never gone in to a building where pipes were leaking, steam was just coming out of places, wires hanging all over, so why is it in every move. and it is the one thing i do not like about B5, that so much of the station is unfinished, i know they rushed it to get on line but why did they just stop the work, yes the station is open but that does not mean they could not finish the job, there are all those people in down below, put them to work
Good Morning! An odd, off-beat one this... I like the seeming randomness of it all. Plus some good character moments. Let's see what you think. Here we go!
We live for the one, we die for the one, I don't think is simply a literalistic interpretation. The rangers go where Antil-Za points because they trust that the One has the clarity of mind and purpose to know where they are most needed. In this case Marcus bent to the literal interpretation yes, but he did so because both she and jeff had already shown him the path and where he was most needed. To ensure that purpose and clarity of mind going forward, Marcus invoke Den-sha. It was just as much to save the rangers from Warrior caste conflation and clouding of purpose as it was to save Delenn. The two were aligned perfectly. Would he have done it for Jeff, in a heartbeat. Would he have done it for Neroon had he become Entil-Za? I'm not so sure. Neroon's purpose and vision is not clear.
That was a fun episode. Good job
This was a rare B5 filler episode, it tossed some canon in tho with the Ranger side story. It was still enjoyable tho, they usually are, haha
Thanks
I would not call this the worst episode. The B-plot certainly pulls it out of the fire, and the 'haunted house' aspect of the A-plot was fun until the point where Garibaldi actually got inside.
I really want to know if you'll be adding the movies to the watch order, Thirdspace is so good.
Delenn also had a close relationship with Kosh.
Love this episode
What do you think of Marcus, he is my favourite character
I feel this one would have been much improved by simply swapping the A plot and B plot around, since the latter was more interesting.
J m strazinski has apologized publically for the monster. Apparently they had little time and they needed the money for the season finale
Famously thought of as one of the weakest episodes, but also has one of the best bits. Marcus and Neroon with the "Quite so uncomfortable" was amazing.
It´s not one of the good episodes over all, but when you remember how nasty the reactions to Delenn´s transformation were...it just makes me smile to hear this 'I want you to be Ranger 1 and nobody else would be accepted anyway"
JMS was criticized for having Garibaldi use a steam-powered gun, It's not impossible, though: ruclips.net/video/Mo5mFF-n5vw/видео.html
i Love Naroon..hes 2nd fav....its Ga'kar...Naroon then Zathras
Zathras or Zathras?
As boring as I find the Zarg story, the ranger one part of it is amazing. Indeed we don't know a lot of Minbar, and the conversation between John and Delenn is a very sweet moment. What is it like to grow up on her planet? You wouldn't understand if you're not from there...
Neroon is also interesting. He's such a great character, and he allows us that glimpse into how the Minbari think and what their rules are. Minbari do not kill Minbari, but who is a Minbari? In season 2 ep 14, a warrior told Delenn point blank that he answered to other Minbari, "not freaks". It seems like Neroon has accepted her by now though.
Who said Minbari don't kill Minbari?-Londo
An interesting idea. But the main story of the episode doesn't work. The Marcus subplot is great though.
Delenn's age is never given an exact number that I know of. I can't say how I worked this out without risking a spoiler but in season 3 she's roughly mid 30's.
If anyone replies to this comment, try to not explain how you worked out her rough age as the most likely way anyone figures this out risks a spoiler.
The year this season takes place is 2260. If you're referring to what I think you are, her age by the end of this season should be about 38-39.
Ive made this point several times to my ex sussex wife but the poms dont get yank culture and vice versa it is wonderful to watch medusa glide past obvious references. Not too many yanks would know blake7 either. Or the doctor.
Looking back now, I wouldn't be shocked if Marcus exclaimed MY GOD, B4 IS A TARDIS!!!!!
I'm one of those people who think Babylon 5 is Lord of the Rings in space . For me Neroon is Theoden. I won't even explain that for spoiler reasons, but for fans of both; think on that.
Neroon is an interesting character. He doesn't show up in all that many episodes, but still he has a major influence on the show.
This episode is definitely the weakest of season 3, and the Zarg is pretty dumb. Still, "worst episode of season 3 of Babylon 5" is whatever the opposite of damning with faint praise is. And now we're coming up on the last few episodes of season 3... hold on to your hat. It's gonna be a ride.
Robert Englund's part in this wasn't that different if you've watched V. The both original V mini-series is well worth watching if you're unfamiliar with it. The TV show... somewhat less worth watching.
Beautiful girl..this show , to me, is the apex of scifi, everything is so spot on
Well grey 17 was not missing it was just misplaced.
aaah this episode... the proof that JMS is human and even he can make a bad episode. I remember that after this aired JMS wrote that he wanted to personally visit every viewer of this episode and apologize in person :P
luckily there's a bit of main plot in the episode to hide the terrible filler story :P it didn't even seem that bad the way you cut it :)
Si the time has come for THIS episode. . . sigh.
I love the B plot with Marcus but oh my the A plot is full on cringe.
JMS has explained/apologised for this episode, he had one night to write the script. He had bad flu & took way too much medicine, he woke up next morning with a finished script & no memory of writing it. There was no time for a rewrite
Grey 17 is generally acknowledged as the worst episode of the series (even JMS noted at the time it was a slog to write) although I really like the 'B' story of Marcus vs Neroon.
I can completely understand Neroon's concerns about a possible religious fanatic taking over leadership of an elite corps of troops (I sometimes wonder if that's partly a nod by JMS to the Dune saga) but it speaks to his character that he steps aside when he realises that he had no authority to command them.
A lot of people consider this the worst B5 episode. That's really unfair, they're forgetting "TKO"
I agree completely. TKO was such a steaming pile of elephant poo.
Widely considered the worst episode in the entire series. At least it's certainly least fan favourite. But even thou I certainly agree Grey 17 plotline is weak, I don't agree with universal hate. First, Robert Englund is hilarious in this episode. And second, the secondary plotline about the fight between Neroon and Marcus is really great.
I think it's unfair to call it the worst episode of the show, it's just the worst episode of Season 3, which might possibly be the best season, so it seems worse.
Yeah, I keep going... I can't comment with out spoilers, so I've just decided till season 5 I'll not comment.