Danika's DUNE 2 Review (SPOILERS ON)
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- ► About: DUNE Pt 2 is finally here and as the internet's resident Revered Mother....I've got A LOT to say about it. CAUTION:This video is SPOILER FULL!
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🎵 Produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Akira The Don
In Don Studios Playa Del Carmen Mk II, 2023
🎙️ Vocals by Danika XIX AKA @comicbookgirl19 & Akira The Don
✍️ Lyrics adapted from the novels by Frank Herbert
🎵 Mixed and mastered by James Millar & Akira The Don
🎸 Guitars on 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 11, 13, 15 & 16 By Francesco
🎸 Guitars on 05, 07, 08, 14 By Luis G
🎷 Sax on 05 & 14 by Donna Grecco
🖼 Illustration by Danika XIX
📺 Design and video by Akira The Don
TRACKLISTING:
BENE GESSERIT BENEDICTION
THE SLEEPER MUST AWAKEN
MANY DEGREES OF SIGHT
THE WISE MAN AND THE FOOL
A PAST WHICH NEVER EXISTED
SEEK DISCIPLINE
MENTAT GENERALIST (THINGS I KNOW)
MY GOLDEN PATH
RESERVOIR OF HATE
THE VIOLENCE OF OUR ANCESTORS
WHO WILL PLAY GOD
TRUST NO GOVERNMENT
BALANCED JUDGEMENT
THE MYSTERY OF LIFE
TRUE BELIEF
LITANY AGAINST FEAR
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► Production Credits:
Directed and Edited by Danika XIX
► Footage and Music Credits:
Stock Music by www.Audioblocks.com
Stock Footage by Videoblocks.com
Footage from the DUNE Part 2 Trailers
and Footage from the DUNE (1984)
![MISSING: SLIM SHADY [Expanded Mourner’s Edition Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xh8qgHrOO1g/mqdefault.jpg)
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 *🎶 Review introduction and overall impression*
- Overall enjoyment of "Dune Part 2."
- Highlighting the stunning visuals, performances, and immersive experience of watching the film.
- Emphasizing the recommendation to see the movie in theaters for the best experience.
02:00 *🎬 Comparing Part 1 and Part 2, adaptation changes, and pacing*
- Part 2's shift from exposition to action compared to Part 1.
- Acknowledgment of necessary changes for adaptation, both intelligent and questionable.
- Preference for a high-budget series adaptation due to the depth and complexity of the source material.
06:00 *🌟 Favorite scenes and character highlights*
- Praising the depiction of Paul riding the sandworm and exploration of Giedi Prime.
- Appreciation for performances by actors like Austin Butler and Leia Saduwo.
- Highlighting specific scenes and character interactions that stood out positively.
10:56 *📚 Changes from the book to the movie*
- Acceptance and approval of certain changes, such as Gurney Halleck's character arc.
- Discussion of character deviations like Sar's role as comedic relief.
- Mixed feelings about alterations regarding the timeline and characters like Alia.
19:26 *🚫 Critiques and missed opportunities*
- Expressing disappointment over the absence of certain characters like Count Fenring.
- Criticism of casting choices, particularly Christopher Walken's portrayal of the Emperor.
- Wishing for alternative casting options and lamenting missed opportunities in the adaptation.
20:21 *🎭 Character Development and Missed Scenes*
- Discussion on missing scenes and character development in "Dune Part 2",
- Absence of important characters like Harah and Stilgar's limited screen time,
- Desire for more exploration of Sietch life and Guild Navigators' absence impacting the understanding of the importance of spice.
22:05 *🌌 Importance of Spice and Missed Opportunities*
- Critique on the portrayal of spice and its significance,
- Lack of explanation regarding the spice's role beyond extending life,
- Disappointment over the absence of the spice orgy scene and limited exploration of the mystical aspects of the Water of Life.
26:29 *🔄 Rushed Third Act and Character Portrayals*
- Criticism of the rushed pacing in the third act and Paul's character development,
- Rebecca Ferguson's portrayal of Lady Jessica and dissatisfaction with her character's representation,
- Disappointment with Zendaya's portrayal of Chani and dissatisfaction with her character arc.
38:25 *💭 Interpretation of reality and prophecies*
- Reality is considered plastic, shaped by beliefs, influencing events.
- "Be careful what you wish for" and "fake it till you make it" highlight the power of belief in shaping outcomes.
- The Beni Jeserit's Missionaria Protectiva and the Fremen's desires potentially influence the fulfillment of prophecies, like the coming of Lisan al-Gaib.
40:59 *💔 Unintended consequences of wishes and prophecies*
- Chani's wishes for freedom result in unexpected outcomes.
- Despite achieving freedom from tyranny, the Fremen's newfound power leads to unforeseen challenges.
- Chani's frustration stems from the discrepancy between expectations and reality, highlighting the complexity of desires and their consequences.
42:54 *🤯 Reflective frustration and time constraints*
- The frustration of conveying complex ideas under time pressure.
- Reflects on the limitations of expressing nuanced thoughts in fast-paced RUclips culture.
- Expresses a desire for more time to refine ideas, emphasizing the value of thorough analysis and reflection.
Made with HARPA AI
I find it this AI comment so ironic under a Dune video, of all things 😅😅😅
@@anamakesthingsThe butlerian Jihad ain't happened yet IRL, we cool.
22:50 common misconception. Navigators don't use Spice to fold Time and Space. The Holtzman Engines do that. The Spice is used to help Navigators use their prescience to plan the safe routes between the stars.
Sidenote: The Spice extends life, but there is another way too. BG can extend their life, their youthfulness even, with their bodily mastery. Alia does it and she stays young in the next books. BG calls her Abomination for that reason too. It is forbidden by BG to do this because they reason that if people notice BG have a way to extend life, the men would start abducting BG and torturing them to find out the secret of life/youth. So they consider the practice abomination.
Guess who *does* know how to contextualize Dune?
This guy...
_Paul betrayed Chani in many ways. But the big thing for Chani is that it’s not about love. It’s about the fact that he becomes the figure that will keep the Fremen in their mental jail. A leader that is not there to free the Fremen, but to control them. That’s the tragedy of all tragedies. Like the Michael Corleone of sci-fi, he becomes what he wanted to avoid. And he will try to find a way to save his soul in the third part._
It's not just that Denis can and must 'change' the book, but that he *understood* it in the 1st place which so many absolutely do not.
They don't remember that Chani's last line of dialogue was one of protest - not acceptance.
[and precisely because this was so *weakly* presented, that the book reader ignored it]
And the book reader ignores a lot, in order to turn a complex narrative into the kind of vapid stories we see all the time [Star Wars/New Hope, Avatar] and which they approve of and heartily gulp down.
This, from the book:
_What of the Freman?_ - Jessica
_They are _*_mine_* - Paul 🤯
Of course thats fauxed up. It was always fauxed up. [God/Emperor of Dune written 15 years later! is still trying to clean up the mess that Paul made - I mean the won in the heads of the reader as well as the ones within narrative]
If you really understood Dune you'd realize that Herbert *changed* Dune too. He just did it by writing more books, some taking place after and some before the original text.
The difference between Denis and the *fake* book-purists is that he knows it, and they don't.
@@summertyme5748 total nonsense...
She has been talking about Dune for like 10 years now. I know that this has made her really happy to finally share. I really enjoy content that come from a genuine place.
Lol I’ve been waiting 25 years for the book to be adapted
I’ve been waiting weeks for this review!
Indeed, it’s been a while since I’ve watched any of her videos but I know she’s a massive Dune fan and wanted to hear her thoughts as soon as I saw the movie
exactly!
I agree 1000% with her review. Like I would have said all of this myself.
The scene with Stilgar saying Paul was too humble to say he was the messiah totally reminded me of Monty Python and the Life of Brian.
Yeah I feel like that was done mindfully. Not intentionally exactly. But I think that Denis knew that link was there and just let it be instead of trying to "fix" it by making it less obvious.
It's funny and I did like it but that's NOT dune at all, it ruins the story and characters for a cheap laugh
@@PodreyJenkin138 Disagree. It's a short scene, it doesn't ruin anything, it's a good laugh and it fits with the vision of Denis Villeneuve, who states that he really wanted to focus on the impact of (religious) dogmatism/fanatism and a critique of charismatic leaders and for that it actually supports the point of the movie. Like yeah it's funny, but it's also exactly how people who are obsessed with a leader figure think. Like look at all the Elon Musk fanboys for example, that guy could accidentally cut off his hand and his fans would argue that it was somehow some super genius 4D chess move.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei trying to compare Elon musk to dune is about as unhinged as it gets
Here you are defending Denis V and this movie blindly because you don't want to NOT enjoy it so you rationalize everything as okay, I wanted to see my favorite book adapted as faithfully as possible not some quirky marvel tier writing because of "le message" for "le modern audiences"
Also everyone can shut up about how "he changed this so we could understand that Paul and the fremen are bad people" yeah you know what else does that...a little novel called DUNE
You don't need to change anything because the Jihad is bad enough, it's the gut punch other shoe that drops and shows you what the cost of atreides revenge truly is
He needs to depict that in Paul's visions of it yet he doesn't touch it (even tries to retcon it by saying it's from starvation as a side effect rather than direct Jihading) but we need stilgar life of Brian jokes to understand?
No way dude I'm not that dumb and you shouldn't be either
@@PodreyJenkin138Well said
Yeah Lady Jessica throwing up was for the benefit the people not familiar with the book, and was not in line with the character. The BG besides being formidable fighters and would not be disgusted by corpses, but also they can literally control their body enough to tell it when to ovulate and select the gender of their child. Morning sickness would be like failing a test on your ABCs.
I think it was deliberate. Like she was not showing her full bag of tricks by appearing weak. She tends to get a lot of friction with people when she shows the full scale of her abilities which messes with her plans.
Dennis certainly made his Dune more accessible. I agree with Danika, Dune has to be a TV series.
It was. It wasn't bad, but no, I don't agree. Why you would want to see Dune's spectacular visuals reduced to a TV screen.. ???
@summertyme5748 why would Dune lose its visuals on a TV screen? GOT and shows like it, looks amazing, and they're a TV shows.
I didn’t think it was morning sickness. I think she was nauseous from how the Fremen were taking water from corpses
Onlooker: Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!
Brian: What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me?! All right, I am the Messiah!
Crowd: He is the Messiah!
Monty Python’s Life of Brian (1979) - as luck would have it, it’s being rereleased for a theatrical run to celebrate its 45-year anniversary. So we get two epic films warning us about charismatic prophets.
I think the interpretation of course is really meant to suggest that only someone who does not seek power is worthy of it.
Granted that is not literally what you wrote. Lol.
The 'golden armor' dream in the first movie does happen in the second movie, but it's an example of how Paul's dreams, at least in the first movie, shouldn't be taken literally.
The sequence appears during the Fremen assault, and it's actually Chiani fighting with the fedaykin.
Presumably Paul had a dream about the assault, and the character we see as him in the dream is the POV character of the dream. So in the dream it's himself, because it's his dream, but in the actual sequence of events, it's Chiani. I thought that the armor in that sequence was very Sardaukar-like, and it could also be seen as Paul's mind interpreting it at the time based on what he was familiar with. With the fedaykin being to him what the Sardaukar are to the Emperor.
That's the first explanation that actually makes sense, I was super confused why they had the power rangers armor in that sequence and then the costumes were PERFECT in part 2, I assumed it was a change in response to feedback that the armor was lame but I realize from your comment that you're right there's no way a mistake like that would be made it has to mean something
I noticed this too, Chani does the same fighting pose as Timmy did in the golden armor in the first movie. It showed that his dreams do come true but they change a bit
I recall that in the book Jessica was horrified to discover which legends the Bene Gesserit's Missionaria Protectiva had sown among the Fremen. It made her realize what an unforgiving place Arrakis truly was.
I don't recall Jessica being horrified that the Missionaria Protectiva was spread to Arrakis. It was quite evident to her due to Fremen reactions to her and Paul upon arrival on Arrakis. In the movie, Jessica was actively pushing the Lisan al Gaib legend. She was the Mahdi's campaign manager and Bene Gesserit hype-man.
In the book, Jessica would passively allow the Fremen to embrace the prophesy. Even though Jessica took a stand-off approach, the wild Reverand Mother recognized that Jessica was tight walking a precarious line using prophesy.
Yes that's straight from the book
@@AhBeeDoi I just read that passage in the book, it's just after she first meets Shadout Mapes. When she gleams from their conversation *which* of the myths and legends the BG have spread, she is horrified at how harsh Arrakis must be. So it's not that the Missionaria have done there work that bothers her, it's that they need to sow very fierce / dark / hard legends.
I think Walken was cast because he "walked without rhythm, it won't attract the worm" in that Fatboy Slim song, "weapon of choice".
omg somebody needs to make a meme about that! or a little gif of him dancing on Arrakis.
@@cleverlydevisedmyth - literally everyone has been making that joke since it was announced, even before the role was cast. I love Walken, I love that song, but miscasting a pivotal role in the movie based on a joke is exactly the reason the internet is where legit film criticism and film literacy goes to die - everything is trivia and easter eggs and in-jokes and bits. Not a jab at you, Danika, don't get it twisted - but yeah, Walken as the Emperor: not as funny or as good as it should have been, and if that's the angle you're shooting for it has to at least be one or the other.
@@radicaladzmiscasting the role based in a joke is the reason that the internet is where film criticism goes to die?
@@atreidesN - I said what I said.
@@radicaladz I disagree. Walken as The Emperor is wonderful. it is a minor role and casting Christopher (Walk without rhythm It won't attract the worm) Walken as a in joke is excellent and in no way diminishes the film.
7:29 the Ghedi Prime scenes are not just black and white, they were filmed in Infra-Red, which is why the shades are off. it was a really great effect.
So cool
Because the sun is black !!!!! Very very cool
@@willzang3000the black sun I don't think is from the novels and seems like a ham fisted way to allude to the ideological enemies of Hollywood
I could be wrong, if I'm wrong please tell me so I can know if it's canon or not, if it's in the book then I'm okay with it
Well said @@PodreyJenkin138 it's a bit on the nose.
You perfectly captured my issues with Chani. I loved her in the books, as Paul’s inseparable partner. Also, Paul was sincerely reluctant about taking the mantle of the messiah, up until he drank the water that allowed him to peer into the future. Maybe she should have cut him some slack be cause he clearly knows something she doesn’t, like a path that will allow them to survive and emerge victorious. Also, you don’t really realize it until til Children of Dune, but when Paul awoke, he was no longer looking at things as an Arteides but for all humanity.
I liked the change of Chani. To me at the end Chani realized her people are going to be used as pawns for someone else's war. And I think Denis needed that Fremen who sees how a messianic figure might be bringing about freedom but also destruction to those who sought freedom from colonialists. And a rational person is not going to believe Paul is doing this for humanity.
Adding to this Paul was not always transparent about his thoughts and visions with her to expect her to fully grasp his intentions and motives. Being his closest person she also sees who he is and what people believe him to be. I thought her condition for loving him as long as he remains himself was believable and leading up to their conflict.
Honestly, Chani in the books was way too one-dimensional imo. Even though i get your criticism and complicates some things going forward, movie Chani was more interesting and above all - more believable. I think she was miscast, due to her sounding like a normal American teenager as opposed to a native warrior on a distant planet thousands of years in the future. However, she gave a way better performance than i expected going in.
When the hans zimmer score kicks in with that close up of him finally standing up on top of the sandworm --- wow.
“The problem of leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?" Muad'Dib”
― Frank Herbert, God Emperor of Dune.
we 👏 miss 👏 danika
Yes 👏 we 👏 do 👏
Yeah
Honestly I was so bummed about Alia not killing the Baron because I do feel it comes full circle when he haunts/possesses her in Children of Dune
This is true
Denis isn’t directing Children of Dune though so this payoff won’t exist
Yeah it is a critical concept
I agree. The Baron gets his revenge for Alia killing him. I really wanted that to happen in this movie.
@@hypatia137 In fact you cannot asssess this until you’ve seen the next film.
You keep trying to project the book you know onto a narrative that has its own life….. that’s an inevitable mistake.
Denis is not trying to copy and paste from Herbert’s books. It is really the inspiration for fresh thinking and creativity - being preemptively rejected herein specifically because it forces you to think and does not let you experience easy pleasure of the comfort food that you already know and love.
I suspect that Denis thinks he can do more with Alia’s story - and do her true justice.
And so he needs to *not* rush thru it. I think he changed the timeline specifically to prevent Alia from being born in this film.
Christopher Walken did look like what id imagine a galactic emperor to look like - i honestly cant explain why lol
You're spot on with the spice. They needed to explain or emphasize more why its important- i took it for granted until some friends asked me about it (after seeing the film)
I really hoped for Jessica and Chani to share that moment at the end:
"..we who carry the name of concubine - history will call us wives.".
It was a beautiful way to end the book. If they put in the movie I feel that reassurance would've kept Chani there, but they made it look like Chani was about to ride a worm into the sunset to start her own spin-off adventure lmaoo🥲 I wonder how Denis will bring her and Paul back together in Messiah.
Ohh chani is supposed to be a concubine. I thought it was weird how Paul tells her as long as he breathes he’ll love her then five seconds later tells the emperor he’ll take his daughters hand in marriage and rule with her. Chani is left standing there like, what you mean rule with her?
This disappointed me as well.
I get what they were trying to do but I think using Chani's character to accomplish it was a mistake.
As I said in a different post here, even if Chani didn't believe in the prophecy, she should have believed in Paul. That would have been a more interesting take, in that her faith was not in prophecy and superstition but the man she grew to love and trust.
The waffling back and forth between on one hand supporting him becoming a Fremen, rooting for him and loving him but not supporting him as the chosen one even after he changes the water and leads the Fremen to victory just didn't feel right. The time spent on more extraneous scenes could have been used to explore the complexity of Paul and Chani's growing relationship and her reservations about thier roles in fulfilling the prophecy, but ultimately coming to terms with it by deciding to put her trust in the person not the legend, and thereby also trusting that he had no intention of betraying her love and trust even tho the situation called for him to marry the princess.
@@JohnnyOmnia79This change would be weird for book Chani, but makes sense for film Chani. In the film, they are together just few months, haven't gone through the lost of the firstborn child and there isn't Jamie's wife at all.
Book Chani has enough time to build trust about Paul, film Chani absolutely did not. Film Chani has IMO right to feel just like temporary distraction for Paul, before he can get back to "his" people.
It also serves as a sign of change in behaviour after Paul drink water of life, he KNOW Chani will understand, so he doesn't even try to talk with her about it before, to prepare her for this.
Not a fan of Zendaya in this, but I DO appreciate her "bestie" from the North, because in real life, well, you DID have portions of the population more susceptible to "superstition and propaganda" (whatever you want to call it) and populations near (coastal?) cities whom due to access to outside information/imports, considered themselves more edgy. C'mon, its always been that way.
@@juniorjames7076 I thought she was massively miscast and was expecting her to be terrible, however she did WAY better than what i thought. I still think she was miscast due to her sounding like an American teenager, that's not her fault - you can't help how you sound, (hence why i think someone else shoulda be cast as Chani), and yet that being said -i thought she delivered a great performance regardless.
AND ANOTHER THING…I miss not seeing water rings in anybody’s hair 😢 it’s a small detail that would have given me so much LIFE
Unfortunately there weren't water rings in anyone's hair but they did have water rings represented in the movie. Which surprised me.
The reason Paul decided so quickly to drink the water of life was because he didn't have any vision of the attack against Sietch Tabr. On top of seeing people die, this attack was right after he woke up from a nightmare where Chani dies. So he thought he needed to see everything to protect himself and everyone.
Plus he might have thought there would be a chance he would not bring the terrible purpose into existence because his vision of the attack was flawed. So maybe if he fully unlocked his mind he could prevent the holy war.
They removed Water Rings from Jamis' hair before the rendering. It was wrong, because Jamis' woman Harah kept his water rings, as do any woman wed to a male of the tribe. For Jamis to be carrying his own water rings, he would have to have been unwed, so maybe it is correct for this adaptation, since there is also no mention of Harah in the movie.
saw it in imax it was great
Wow, somebody actually did a proper review. I'm already sick of people making 'review videos' that basically just describe beat by beat what happened in the film??? Thanks CBG19, i really enjoyed that review. Having not read the book many of the things you mentioned were things i instinctively felt watching the film for the first time like the last act feeling slightly rushed. But i was over the moon with the film for the most part. I'll definitely being going to watch it again this weekend, it really is a masterful piece of cinema. Thanks again for a great genuine review.
U welcome bb 😘
First place I came to after watching the film 😂. You've got to go to the omega level Dune fan for the good spice.
Another thing I missed about the movie is Paul shading a tear for Jamis (in front of the whole sietch). It was such a sincere moment for him, interpreted by the Fremen as an act of kindness to his fallen adversary. I think they kinda did that with Lady Jessica crying over the pool, but it wasn't the same.
Agree. And then he cries in front of Chani later and she wasn’t phased
I was waiting for that! I feel it would’ve been worth including Paul playing Jamis’ baliset to remind the viewer of his close relationship with Gurney, (and to instinctively woo Chani).
I missed the whole side story of Jamis's family becoming Paul's.
@@h4tch3tt74 Chani's best friend, Shlishlahskishishash whatever the fuck her name is, that's exactly who I thought Jamis' wife was gonna be when I saw the poster/trailer 🤣 was hoping to see her try seduce Paul once or twice.
I have a total different read on Chani. She’s not being petty, she’s being principled. She doesn’t want this for Paul (and book 2 makes it clear that Paul doesn’t like this for himself either) or for her people (which Paul doesn’t like either). I’m holding out hope that the ending is just the nadir in the arc and that there will be reconciliation in part 3. And I am holding out hope that part of that reconciliation comes because Paul rejects Irulan in anything but political position. I think there’s still room for that to happen. But I’m ok with that being a process and that there’s some tension in the short term. I won’t be ok if she becomes an all out antagonist to Paul in the long term. I’m less ok with Paul being corrupted and sending the Freemen on their war. I get it in that it gives him an arc as well, but I don’t see it as necessary to go that far. I always felt like the fact that it became out of control in spite of what he wants was central to the conflict. But if that’s how it’s going to go then it makes sense that Chani represent his conscience and oppose his slide into despotism and help him regain himself so that he can bring down the myth of his godhood as he does in the books. That’s my hope at least.
Zendaya not having chemistry with the lead male? You don't say... 😅
Zendaya in Dune is like 😒😕😠😡😤
I don’t disagree she doesn’t fit Chani. But I do believe she has chemistry
The only review that matters to me!!
🙏
Ok just to show im nota complete troll here is 3 mature criticisms 1st the sandworms were nothing special could barely see them A huge "LOTR Army of the dead " rescue opportunity was missed I woulda had the reg worms attack with moderate success but begin to be repelled by sum sorta heavy weapon then have Paul summon the grandfather worm and it wreaks havoc with its immense size 2nd The costumes in battle were too similar Pauls army looked like a buncha out of work sewage treatment plant workers in a union dispute Once you introduce the black shock troopers that's ur Stormtrooper Roll with it. Iconic easily identifiable bad guys 3rd Villeneuve doesnt understand the difference between cultural influence and lifting the entire Lawrence of Arabia genre. Space and time travel is your theme I get they are trying to wring this mop into multiple sequels but at least keep Space trade and travel as the catalyst that is always in the background
To think Lynch with budget and studio issues accomplished three key points Great costumes and Alien cultures and a comprehensive story with characters of magic and fantasy.@@comicbookgirl19
It would have been great if y'all did a video together discussing the movie.
High praise
Gurney killing the Rabban was funny to me because it was Thanos killing Drax. In the comics, Drax is the one that kills Thanos during Annihilation.
Was Rabban as incompetent in the books? I thought it was funny casting Bautista into a role where the guy just gets his ass kicked over and over again.
In the book Rabban screws up management of Arrakis and Fade takes over. So yeah I’d say he’s a screwup
@@BBNBRM-mt4gs Yes and yes. It’s funny but if there is one character who I would have liked to see ‘improved’ in terms of how they were originally written - it was Rabban. He was a lumbering goon of a man in the book and film. I think Batista deserved better, but then some viewers only want the comfort food of seeing book-traced-ver-batim - even though that is almost NEVER the case with the best film adaptations.
Rabban was intentionally set to fail either way.
Baron Harkonnen is playing favorite and he always wanted Feyd to be his successor.
I discovered your channel years ago when you covered Comic Books. Then, when you entered your Dune era, you helped me discover my favorite book of all time. Thank you.
Thank you for your review ! You have been one of the first RUclips channels talking about Dune so we know how passionate you are about this series. Also thanks for articulating the things better that have been bugging me ever since I saw the movie yesterday. I think one major aspect that I don't appreciate about the changes they did to Chani's character and her dynamics with Paul is that by making her the audience's proxy who is very sceptical of faith and prophecy and messianic figures, Villeneuve's movies essentially take away the chance for non-book readers to fully buy into the Chosen One story and be fooled by its false promises and horrible consequences. Through Chani's eyes in this movie, we are already informed that Paul is not really a good guy. But I think it was much more effective how Frank Herbert pulled it off in the books, where he showed that after the glorious victory in Dune, everything went completely to shit in Dune Messiah. I strongly feel like people deserve the experience to root for Paul only to see him fail afterwards, to understand what Herbert really had to say about charismatic leaders. Also, it's kind of complicated because Chani wasn't really that fleshed out in the books so she definitely deserved a more prominent role, but by drastically changing her like this, they kind of take away from the tragedy of Paul's internal struggle. Paul didn't choose this and he wanted to stop many times along the way, but he couldn't, and involving Chani in his machinations have always been some of his greatest regrets. Ironically, by changing Chani and Paul's very loving dynamic in the books, they take some of their most human traits as well. I get it though, Dune operates in very introspective narratives, so it's hard to translate onto screen. Had to get this off my chest, agree with all your other points too, Dune definitely has to be weirder !
The Spice is explained exactly once near the start of Part One with a melodic voice that plays over music while the house Atreides is still on Caladan. It's so easy to let wash over you without taking on the meaning of the words. I agree Part Two could have really done with reiterating it. I like the decision not to give us the guild navigators though. He deliberately only showed us the trees we needed in Part One, then pulled back and only showed us what we needed for Part Two. We 100% will get Guild Navigators in Messiah and the view of the "whole forest" so to speak
Denis Villeneuve said there won't be a director's cut of Part One because he doesn't believe in them. In opposition to and as an alternative to that point, I say he needs to pressure Legendary to give those of us who bought "Dune: Part One"'s physical media, the deleted/extended scenes that weren't in those packages. There's about 32 minutes, including Duncan Idaho's covert landing on Arrakis, the reveal of a horrific housewarming gift left by the Baron for Leto in the Arrakeen keep, Gurney Halleck, drunk and playing his baliset after the (scripted, but unfilmed) banquet sequence, a conversation between Lady Jessica and Doctor Yue and the Mentats' conversations with their respective House leaders that were cut in the final edit.
Man... If there's one thing that I missed in both films is more Mentat scenes. We barely saw Piter on part I. C'mon! Give us plans within plans within plans!!!
There was a scene shot for part 1 showing Paul receiving Bene Gesserit training from Jessica. That is such an integral part of the plot I don't know why they cut it out.
I hate to say he's wrong about directors cuts but... no, wait, I don't hate to say it, he's just wrong. If you're going to make a two film torture fest out of what clearly needed to be 3 films in the cinema, and gut so much from it but film it... just give me a home version where I can see everything that worked. Such a waste of effort not to let me watch it properly. I await a faithful adaptation. Still.
@@jonevansauthor The TV mini series is worth a watch, even though it's a bit low budget and the costumes are very strange. It's the most faithful adaptation yet.
I wish we could have seen Count Fenring.
I genuinely liked the Walken Emperor lol not for any specific reason, just felt right, and to me, Pugh looks somewhat like him, like I could definitely see her being a child or grandchild of his irl.
Didn't see the point in his casting, but happy to see him earn a paycheck.
Saw it for a 2nd time today. The Giedi Prime scenes might be my favorite parts. They come in at the perfect time during the movies runtime to give it a great boost and they add a perfect amount of creativity to it.
You definitely nailed the Chani criticism. I fully agree with those points.
Jessica vomiting was my single biggest complaint about the movie. The BG can control their bodies down to their chemical composition. They exercise every single muscle in their body, even insignificant ones. Having her vomit was just stupid writing.
that doesn't have anything to do with writing, it wasn't established in the film
@@saidmekki1293 I'm like 99% sure it's established in the film. Paul says something like "she's trained for this. She can turn poison in her body." And she knew as soon as she was pregnant. I don't really understand you saying it wasn't written into the film.
"Turn her body into poison" does not imply "control their bodies down to their chemical composition"
And again, it has nothing to do with writing, in any case it's an adaptation difference
@@saidmekki1293 I guess we are agreeing to disagree. Being able to turn poison into not-poison does imply absolute control of one's bodily processes. In my opinion, the writers were using Jessica as a tool to show the importance of not wasting moisture in the desert and they did it at the expense of her bene gesserit abilities.
There’s something moved my feelings about stilgar being loveble leader & chill to the point of naïveté. But screaming: i don’t care if you believe, I BELIEVE.
It felt so defensive and personal to him
I think Count Fenring was supposed to be in the movie, but like Thufir, ended up on the cutting room floor. I remember a couple months back, it was announced that Tim Blake Nelson was going to be in the movie, but he ultimately got cut. I have a feeling he was going to be Fenring.
😭
I am a count of constant sorrows….
Denis Villeneuve and the entire cast and crew fucking killed it. Dune 2 is such a good fucking movie. Definitely going to go back and see it again. Loved your review and love your content, thank you!!
Harah is one of my favorite characters and wish she could’ve made an appearance.
Also, what about Chani and Paul’s son? It raises the stakes for Messiah. She lost a child and then couldn’t get pregnant.
Them losing their son in the Harkonnen raid, was imho one of the big motivations for Paul taking the WormJuice and embracing being Messiah. Since Alia *still* hadn't been born the whole timeline is a clusterfk.
@@niallrussell7184my thought halfway through was that when Paul embraced his role and began descending into being the terror of the universe, Chani tells him that they were with child, but it miscarried (which is what i remember maybe incorrectly happened in the book) and this would make Paul spiral down harder. But the timing of it would make no sense as all the events happen within months (cramming as Danika put it)
I don't mind Zendaya playing Chani. I think she did a fine job playing the role. But I really don't like how they changed the character Chani.
Here is my take on the whole Chani-thing: I think they shifted her character the way they did, so the unfamiliar audience has a character they root for opposing Pauls messiah-shit. Cause the message of the movie could have easily slipped into "Oh hooray Mahdi hero whiteboysaviour" - but they attached the message, that we should question this messiah to a character. I think that's smart and helps a lot in securing the core message of Dune. (that said: not the biggest fan of this Chani too. But I get it :D )
Most likely, Villeneuve even mentioned that he wants to make the original message clearer because, while reading the first book, many people missed the fact that it critiques the "messiah".
Chani wanted her people to be free, but they ended up becoming "slaves" to the religious cult...so, as an atheist, I found her to be a good audience surrogate I could easily empathize with, especially at the end.
I thought about it. And I think if Messiah has Paul trying to win Chani back, then it would make the ending even more tragic. It’s still meh.
Also when the First part came out I dreamt Anya Taylor Joy would be Alia for the future installments like Children of Dune…
“And sometime my dreams occur exactly as I dreamt them.”
Exactly that ☝️ it’s explaining a lot better the messianism problem, and for sure that will bleed through dune Messiah
This is one of the ones that have to be digested, yes. Nice review!
@@Roonagu Then why did Villeneuve make Stilgar into a fawning sycophant right away? From the ending of the novel, "In that instant, Paul saw how Stilgar had been transformed from the Fremen naib to a creature of the Lisan al-Gaib, a receptacle for awe and obedience. It was a lessening of the man, and Paul felt the ghost-wind of the jihad in it." Chani's character was changed to bring in ticket sales. Simple as that. The book makes it extremely clear that this is the overwhelming theme of the story. Maybe Villeneuve isn't talented enough a filmmaker to do the job though.
You're right. Lady Jessica would be able to control her body. That's like, the whole deal with the Bene Gesserit
But her daughter wouldn't be
@@beezusHrist
In terms of not being able to exert influence over new muscles, but she has the knowledge
@@pseudonymousbeing987 a fetus isnt a muscle
@@beezusHrist
That's not what I said. Throughout the books people who have unlocked their genetic memory have access to all the training their ancestors went through so theoretically can accomplish all the same things. Alia has this from the womb. Characters like Leto II aren't able to do everything instantly, partially because he has a child's body, and partially because knowledge doesn't immediately translate to ability when in a new body. Alia has the knowledge to control herself, but perhaps not the mind body connection yet needed.
Saw it last night in Dolby Digital. The worm riding scene felt so realistic. It felt like there were real stakes in the scene. My only really issues with the film revolved around Chani. They did a complete 180 with her that I couldn't get behind.
Hit the nail on the head at the end there! People are now into Dune! I started the series when I was 15 years old. My dad gave me his copies of the first three books and I spent my allowance on the next three. I'm 41 now, and until this adaptation, my dad is the only other person in my life that I've been able to talk about books with. Now, my friends, family, and especially my wife, come to me as the source of all the deep lore, the differences, and the philosophies that underpin the whole tale because they're into it too finally.
Yeah Bene gesseret have full body control. They would not throw up if they don't want to. I really feel like they nerf the sisterhood in the movies.
The thing about Chani in this movie is, I really felt her desperation in having to face a new reality she doesn't want but has no way of changing. She hates the fact that she can't just fight for her people, with her people, but instead has to watch a literal religious prophecy becoming manifest. Moreover, she didn't just lose Paul, she lost everybody. Everyone she knew are now converted into religious fanatics and she wants no part of it, even after witnessing firsthand a legend of her people become a reality.
My favorite part of the book is when Paul realizes Gurney Halleck turned from his friend to a believer and how alone he felt, losing his last alive friend to fanaticism.
I think it’s Stilgar that Paul mourns losing to religious fanaticism? He only wonders and worries if he’s about to lose Gurney during the confrontation with the Emperor.
@@Chris.4345 That's correct. His mom ends up banging Gurney all day on Caladan, so he doesn't lose him in any traditional sense, ha ha.
To me it's as clear as - she is given agency in this story - so far - which she did not ever really have in the book.
Her book duty is to love and adore the hero until she has children, and then die.
I'm sorry to sound cold - but that is the reality of the male centered hero narrative - the woman services the mans ego.
The male in the audience revels in the fantasy - and the woman in the audience sees the story thru the male gaze.
Not a Dune thing - it's a Western Narrative thing.
Herbert recognized it more and more and subverted it with his Bene Gesserit vs Honored Matres conflict where women became the prime agents in the story.
I don't know where Denis is going but I hope he keeps going and doesn't turn back.
Pocahontas - Lawrence of Arabia, Dances with Wolves, Avatar in many ways are the same limited story.
Dune - is better than all of that. Herbert made sure of it - build on the best of what he did and take it further.
@@summertyme5748 it's a feudal society set thousands of years in the future. Don't transplant your sense of 2024 ethics onto it. There are actual slaves everywhere in this story. Villeneuve butchered chani and aliah's characters. simple as that. The relationship that Herbert wrote for Chani and Paul is so essential to the story that it's literally the subject of the very last sentence of the book.
@@summertyme5748 Oh _please._ Women were _always_ powerful in Dune. I'd argue that _Jessica,_ not Paul, is the _actual_ protagonist of the first novel. And the _all-female_ Bene Gesserit basically control everything from behind the scenes, at least until Paul's ascendancy. Sometimes it's okay for a woman in a story to just love a man. Chani's love was so great that she dies giving birth to his children, after a difficult pregnancy thanks to Irulan's machinations. And through her son Leto II, Chani played a part in ensuring humanity's survival i.e. "The Golden Path". Way more important than firing a few rockets (even though firing rockets looks cooler).
While I liked the movie a lot, and it can be safely assumed to be the best adaptation so far, I believe that Vileneuve's wariness and possible fear of the weirder and out-there elements of Dune have hindered the movie and will outright destroy future adaptation if he keeps this attitude.
Just Alia alone is going to cause a massive ripple-effect that will take considerable effort to repair, come Children of Dune.
I get that Zendaya’s Chani not being okay with Paul becoming the Lisan al Gaib is a complete 180 from the books but, people don’t read. And sometimes you have to spell it out least a certain audience thinking it’s a good thing.
Sofia B. deserves to be put into a good movie.
In book Chani was 1 dimensional and pretty much a non character.
And yet it's the fremen fanatical nature and bloodlust desire for revenge that makes the Jihad not Paul, Paul unleashes them reluctantly and tries to stop it, Paul uses the Fremen for revenge and the Fremen use Paul for revenge it's symbiotic
@@1183newmanthey could habe developed her to be an emotionally grounded, earthy yet devoted altruistic lover... the only one who sees his humanity fully and trusta him as he goes full super-human, without fanaticism.
She should have been his lous lane. Instead she needs Paul like a fish needs a bicycle... Zero devotion, zero trust. More like a fling.
Very disappointed.
Hmmm didn’t think about that
Damnnn … That’s probably true
I feel like Stilgar being the detractor would’ve been better
But that’s just me … I personally just hate the Chani changes, but what you said makes sense
Desperately want an extended edition release with Thufir’s scenes. They really don’t touch on how the combination of Paul’s mentat and Bene Gesserit training is how his prescience is so strong. His ascension to messiah seemed a little too “magic blue juice” ex machina.
Paul's water of life vision with Alia on the beach, with the waves crashing felt like a tribute to Frank's moment of inspiration at the dunes. I thought it was beautiful and touching. Especially in regards to the overall beauty of humanity's ability to create. That moment got me teary.
There's no way Chani or Alia Who is no longer Alia of the Knife because of these changes are going to be getting the fates they have in the books.
Hmmmmm yes spoilers it seems difficult to believe they'll let Chani end as she does
@@pseudonymousbeing987 I'm extremely disappointed with how Villenueve hurt Chani and Aliah's characters, but we did at least get a brief shot of Paul foreseeing Chani's burned face.
I see easy solutions. They just need to say Alia went to the holy war to gain her nickname. It would also be interesting af is she's a veteran of her brother's war, and a way to mark their differences in controlling the mahdinate.
I kinda liked Jessica's 'scheming' because it reminded me of what she does to Leto II. And she really had EVERYone scared of her in Children of Dune.
I can’t lie .. I loved Jessica being somewhat of an antagonist
I also understand ppl wanting her to stay the same, because I feel the same way about Chani
She plays villains so well. Her portral of Rose The Hat in Doctor Sleep was also fantastic
I wasn't reading Chani as starting a resistance against Paul, just that she's going off into the desert to sulk. And I understand that, as how do you give her an arc in the next movie otherwise? Now, the obvious arc is simply for Paul to win her back, which... OK, not very empowering either, but at least it's something. And I completely understand the choice of not having her meekly accept the role of concubine.
She was always his true love and I don’t know how they can do dune messiah or children of dune without her
@@MaryRose86 Who said they would do it without her? Certainly not me. All I've theorized is that her role will have to be somewhat different.
Not every single female role has to be empowering. Just saying.
And I never saw Chani's acceptance of concubine as meek. It was necessary and she understood that and she was mature enough to be practical, trusting in her bond with Paul and putting aside any petty and selfish jealousies for the greater good.
Her going off to the desert to sulk seems to me more of an insult to her character and women in general than how the book portrayed her. Just as you could attribute her "giving in" to being a concubine as outdated or not empowering or whatever, could you not also make the case that her running off is playing into the tropes of the irrational and emotionally unstable female? She's unable to control her jealousy and anger so her answer is running away instead of dealing with reality and confronting her problems head on?
Guess it all depends on what someone considers "empowering". Is being mature, loyal & trusting and putting aside your own personal needs for others empowering?
Or is girl bossing off into the sunset to do your own thing regardless of the surrounding circumstances or consequences empowering?
Depends on who you ask I guess.
_wasn't reading Chani as starting a resistance against Paul, just that she's going off into the desert to sulk._
Why does she have to 'sulk'. Can you not accept that she simply doesn't want to be his concubine, but rather continue to be who she is, a freedom fighter for the fremen who are *still not free.*
"No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a hero." - Herbert
I know, right. - Chani from the film
You ruined the movie!!!! - fake Fanboy
This isn't Star Wars you complete simp! - Denis
I have to say in frankness that I think for many of you - your minds have been ruined by too much Avatar and Star Wars and dumbed down hero narratives.
Chani is the one who is behaving intelligently - and like a real human being would.
You can't understand why she isn't acting like a 'save me' girl in a comic book movie, because that's apparently all you know. (??)
@@JohnnyOmnia79 _And I never saw Chani's acceptance of concubine as meek_
It is by definition. A concubine is a woman who is a sexual servant of a man, and who has by definition inferior social status. You - *never saw it* because you see what you want to see as an ego and coping mechanism. It is what it is. Regardless of what you chose not to see... 🙈
I really liked how the film depicts Jessica pushing the prophecy and Chani’s opposition to the prophecy. It is a deviation from the books, true. I just really liked the two women in Paul’s life represented his internal struggle about accepting the mantle of Mahdi and leading the holy war.
I’ve been following you for a while and was super curious to get your take on the film. I loved it and thought it was one of the best films I’ve seen in as long as I can remember (if not of all time) but… I’m not a book reader. It was super cool to hear you brake it down from your perspective with the obvious reverence for the material and insight as someone who clearly understands films as an art form. You’re a rockstar Danika!
I had massive issues with the factionalization of the Fremen/Chani. Theoretically I like the idea of adding complexity to Fremen belief/culture, I just don't think this was done well, and DV maybe even made it worse. Herbert's inspiration of the Fremen directly came from Ibn Khaldun, and his idea of 'Asabiyyah (group feeling/solidarity) is key here, but DV's (shallow) factionalization cuts against a core theme/inspiration of the Fremen's longer arc ('asabiyyah/unity being forged in a harsh environment, which allows them to usurp, but which is then lost as they achieve power/cosmopolitanism). The very simplistic/binary split of North vs. South = Enlightened Atheists vs 'Fundamentalists' felt extremely shallow and surface level of how splits in belief and culture actually manifest in such a tightly-knit community/culture, and totally misses what's interesting in the middle (like Chani). The split's artificiality also divorces the Fremen culture from FH's themes of how ideology/'assabiyah is rooted in ecological-sociological reality. I really didn't like the cop-out of labelling all southerners as 'fundamentalists,' and the term just seems out of place in the way that term was used/applied to the Fremen. Making Stilgar/southern 'fundamentalists' out to be these gullible irrational fools completely negates the complexity of how deep culture/belief can capture your faculties and actions, influence eventualities, and misses the ways it can be wrestled with within the cultural context. It also trivializes the ecological/survival/autonomy impetus of Fremen belief collapsing it into purely ideological fundamentalism. In a way DV's approach is worse than just leaving all the Fremen as 'believers'.
I see what DV was trying to do, but adding the skeptic Northerners (an obvious modern/American insert) ends up reinforcing/flattening the stereotype of the gullible native religious fool rather than nuancing it. DV seems to have brought a very modern/christian sensibility to belief, as opposed to what I imagine the Fremen (muslim/bedouin/Ibn Khaldun-inspired) belief/culture to be like and how FH understood it. (I also say this as someone who has left Islam/is critical of religious culture, and would very much appreciate a more nuanced depiction of belief and the unknowable which I think FH was also aware of). Making Chani a perfectly enlightened skeptic, without seeing how that would impact her perception by/of the Fremen society and relationship to Paul, didn't seem to be thought through properly and misses what makes her interesting as a character and her senses of duty (to the planet, culture, people, paul etc.). Chani storming off at the end also seemed to gloss over this, and Chani/a whole faction knowing about the Bene Gesserit plan of religious manipulation seems like a massive change which I'm not confident was properly thought through.
Regarding the film as a whole, while very beautiful/successful most of the time, there were also a lot of times where the movie began to feel a bit hollow/stifled by DV's style/editing and his stated aversion to dialogue. I also felt the architecture could have been a lot more ornate in Kaitan/the throne, and scenes like the armies outside with the flags seemed overly minimalistic/stylized to me, and despite the length a lot of the bigger moments felt very rushed. I also wish there was more of Irulan/Shaddam/Kaitan/Guild/CHOAM.
Overall though I enjoyed it for what it was and I'm glad it exists, but the changes to the religious/political themes and simplifications of the political machinations (and lack of Guild/CHOAM) were disappointing. I'm mainly worried that DV is missing how that changes the themes/arcs, and if he has the ability/had the foresight of how to redo Messiah/P3. But I'll suspend my final judgment for when Part 3 comes out
Oh hell yeah Ibn Khaldun. Get reference.
Hard disagree. The north/south split isn't monolithic as we see many believers in the north. It also makes a lot of sense that the northerners would have an under current of non believers given that they are the ones fighting the harkonnen and other out worlders while the southerners are hidden by their deal with the guild. It makes so much sense that the northerners would develop a desire for self determination.
It also makes sense from a storytelling perspective where the goal is to portray Herbert's intention of Paul not being a hero. That message can be washed out if you don't have a counterpoint giving the audience a lense to see the manipulation. Herbert himself was worried that people wouldn't understand that and in today's media literacy landscape I have even less faith in people's ability to correctly interpret this. I have already seen multiple reviews calling this a "white savior" trope so I guess some people need even more hand holding.
As for Chani, Paul says explicitly that she will come to understand in time and the fact that she is pissed off now is a reflection of how she see's paul as human so his actions are a direct betrayal.
Here is what Herbert actually had to say…
HERBERT: _There is definitely an implicit warning, in a lot of my work…..against charismatic leaders. After all, such people-well-intentioned or not-are human beings who will make human mistakes. And what happens when someone is able to make mistakes for 200 million people? The errors get pretty damned BIG!_
^ Chani gives voice to Herbert’s view in THIS FILM. Later in the books Herbert would take it much further and have Leto II - the TYRANT make this more clear. The very reason he had to go further is because some readers didn’t get it. Even today many of you think that Paul is f’kin Luke Skywalker. Yet you think *Denis* doesn’t get it.???😂 Only on the internet…..
I’m so glad someone else agrees with the miscasting of Zendaya. I loved Dune 2, but I felt Zendaya is the only actor that did not immerse themself into a fully transformed character. It was almost a distraction.
She had like a brief second of being likeable.
I agree as well. She only has a couple of expressions. (Sarcastic and annoyed; sarcastic and condescending). I never believed her as Chani or as someone Paul was in love with or as someone who was in love with Paul. To be fair, Christopher Walken didn't immerse himself into a fully transformed character either. But he did exactly what you hire Christopher Walken to do. And it worked.
I imagine the gold armor is a result an overlay of childish expectations on Paul's youthful vision.
In general, I reaaaally loved the movie, the visuals, the soundtrack, the rhythm, etc. Scenes like Paul riding the sandworm or the final battle blew my mind. And I really want to repeat the movie as soon as I can in an IMAX. And I recommend everyone please go and watch it! I'm really thankful because the first movie motivated me to finally read the books, I'm in the fourth one right now and now I consider myself a huge Dune fan.
But it's a shame, as a book reader now, how the last like 5 minutes just let me really bewildered. The moment when Paul tells Gourney to tell the houses to stay their ground or he'll use the atomics to destroy the spice fields and their answer was to directly defy him, I was like "What? He just told them 5 minutes ago he can completely destroy the most valuable resource in the known universe at that very moment!". I know in the books not everyone was happy with Paul being emperor, but at that moment he had the whole galaxy grabbed by the balls. And then I felt that the movies haven't explain completely the true importance of the melange and all the stuff that thing can do, to the point that as far as I remember, the CHOAAM hasn't been mentionet not even once. And also Chani leaving like that... I'm really hyped for Dune part 3, but now I don't know how they are going to addapt the book now. But let's hope, because despite all that I just said, I really love these movies.
I feel exactly the same way. The end was a sucker punch. It was an amazing film but the logic of the books was completely abandoned. The stakes of Paul’s threat were not established well for the viewer but more importantly somehow the great houses didn’t seem to understand either. It makes no sense.
I 100% agree with all your takes on Dune Part II. Especially the gripes with all the changes and ending. I really wanted to see graphicly enhanced super trippy psychedelic visions that Mother Jessica and Paul have when drinking the water of life to explain better the transformation and God like powers they have within. The fact the film glosses over such a monumental moments in the book is a total slap in the face to Frank Herbert and all Dune readers. I was genuinely sad after watching the film, and that horrible ending was the icing on the cake for me LOL
I think that Vill wanted to make it abundantly clear that Paul, in order to get revenge on the harkonnens and the emperor, he had to sell his soul and compromise his values, even had to sacrifice the love of his life. And in doing so unleashed a terrible force on the rest of the galaxy.
I get that but I still wish he could have found a way to accomplish that without changing Chani so much. I guess I just always thought it was kind of beautiful how much trust they shared and how she was willing to "share him" with Irulian, if you will, but he never took any liberties with the princess, never betrayed that trust, staying loyal only to Chani. It was a special bond.
The Golden Path is not about revenge!
@@verepainelistens1459 This has nothing to do with the Golden Path. It the book Paul's threat to the Spice field WORKED and the Spacing Guild was the group that recognized Paul's claim. That's how he was able to launch his war to solidify his rule. The Golden Path didn't become apparent to Paul until Messiah and he said "Nope! I'm out. Son, have at it."
omg your Bene gesserit outfit is classic. you are a goddess of youtube Danika! I've loved all your work since early Game of Thrones reviews. what a gift to mankind you are! no exaggeration here! lovely and life-affirming stuff you have generated! I bow in thanks!
I really like Dune part two, I also agree that the role of Chani was a bit miscast. But they won’t stop me from loving the movies.
“Men make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living.”
One thing I felt was strange that you didn’t mention: when they first enter Seitch Tabr, I found it weird that it was portrayed Jamis’ death as a division between the inhabitants. Some supporting Paul while others thought him illegitimate. From the book I felt that the Fremen valued strength and skill above just loyalty to a past friend; that if Jamis died in a duel and lost, then the community was stronger as the weaker link had been removed leaving the community as a whole stronger.
Agree. Did not like that either :/
Which is inconsistent with them accepting Duncan and The other one. Kinds?
Agreed.
It kinda plays into the “divided” aspect that Danika found annoying but necessary. How do you portray a battle-hardened people as a monoculture on screen without making them seem like gullible zealots. I guess it also deviates from the book in that post-water Jessica says that the southern fundamentalists are more malleable, as if the Sisters didn’t get the job done the first time. Like a Bene Gesserit would half-ass anything lol.
@@jonathanwright5338I understand the filmmakers fear, but the Fremen ARE zealots. 😂 Single-minded zealots for strength, community and faith. How is it them being gullible when Paul and Jessica have to fight to prove themselves worthy of Fremen mercy of not being killed on the spot? How is it colonization when the Atreides have to acclimatize and learn from the Fremen and be absorbed into their Fremen culture in order to survive? It is the Fremen who allow them to live, the Fremen are in control of everything.
Yes, the Bene Gesserit seeded the savior prophecy, but anyone who believes that the arrival of the Atreides is ultimately a good thing, a savior/deliverance for the Fremen obviously didn’t read Messiah 💀
I didn’t like Chani potentially turning against Paul at the end of the movie either bc I don’t think it aligns with her character; she doesn’t care about the prophecy, she trusts Paul bc he’s Paul. They talked about this in this very movie, how other Fremen see Paul as an outsider but she accepts and trusts him already. She’s the one who understood why he was hesitating to go south to the fundamentalist Fremen. But now at the end she doesn’t get him? If he’s acting odd, why didn’t she just ask him to clarify later?? I don’t get it and I don’t buy it.
I'm a non book reader but like the 84 movie and I still hated the shit out of that final scene. I was 50/50 on it but that last scene made me dislike the movie. Thought the first one was more enjoyable.
It's the best scene in the film for the very reason that you hate it.
Also it's been specifically praised by critics in interviews with Denis and he suggests that he may build on it.
I say go get 'em Denis. Fug 'em up some more. ;)
@@summertyme5748 Danika said she hated that scene and thought it was bc she had read the books, I point out I didn't read the books and still didn't like it but you say it's the best scene bc I hated it, wtf does that even mean?
I've disagreed with Danika on a great many things but there is only one critic on earth I trust with a review on a Dune movie and that is her.
I 100% agree with you on Chani. Zendaya was a horrible choice to play her and the changes they made to her character destroyed the character from the book. The movie should have done a better job of portraying how influential the missionaria protectiva was in religious engineering.
Complete disagreement and can't imagine how annoyed you're are going to be when Zendaya is nominated for an Oscar for her outstanding performance. lol
(because she can act, whereas i'm sorry, Sean Young - never could)
Book Chani = passive concubine.
Lynch/Young Chani - is even *less* than that, and can't be any more since what little dialogue she had was cut. lol
Denis|Zendaya Chani = Freeman Warrior and Freedom fighter and is the closest thing there is to *Herbert's* perspective in the film, which he would need several other books and female characters (Murbella, Siona, Serena, Odrades) to effectively correct slights done to (Chani) and wrongs done to (Alia), and which moreover were rightly criticized *at the time* in original reviews of his works. Which you would know if, well...you knew, anything. ;)
Bet money now - he will continue to change Chani's story for the better:
*Or do you really want to LIE and claim that repeating the already ripped off story of Amidala gives birth to twins - and DIES - is somehow good writing?*
Really...with a straight face, you can say this????
These films aren't really a genuine attempt to adapt Herbert's book into cinema, but rather to do what they have said they meant to do, which is to make what in their minds is
"Star Wars for adults".
Zendaya's Chani = Leia
Chalamet's Paul = Luke
Momoa's Duncan = Han
Furthermore, the first book is split in only two movies, despite the novel itself having three parts, because together with Messiah that makes a trilogy, and Star Wars fell into the pattern of a trilogy per generation.
All that being said, these movies are perfectly fine for what they are, they're just not Herbert's Dune.
Nope. Not at all.
You seem completely confused about order of operations.
Star Wars itself is ripped off directly from Dune.
It's David Lynch's version of the film that tried to turn Dune into Star Wars.
Exactly the opposite of what Villeneuve is doing.
It's like you guys can't watch an actual film, but rather only see your own agenda, or pet peeves *regardless* of the film.
Some really bad film commentary on this forum, sad to say.
Here is the order and corresponding publishing dates: (note there are 7 YEARS between Messiah and Children )
Dune (1965)
Dune Messiah (1969)
Children of Dune (1976)
God Emperor of Dune (1981)
Heretics of Dune (1984)
Chapterhouse: Dune (1985)
4 years between Dune and Messiah, and 7 more between Messiah and Children. It was *never* conceived as a trilogy.
You guys are trying to make up canon that doesn't even exist.
_It isn't Herbert's Dune._
^ No it isn't, nor should it be. Only the Books are Herbert's dune.
This is Ville's Dune and should be judged accordingly and not in accord to some fake retconned 'fan' head canon.
F---ing Zendaya is gonna bring down Muad'ib in dune 3
Please bring back Comic Book girl 19 and please please react to X-men 97 🙏
I thought the Chani ending was a bit like the ending of act two of a Rom Com. Like the trailer for Dune 3 is going to be him spelling out her name in the dunes with a sand worm or something to win her back
bish... out of the 20+ reviews and thought videos and articles...
you're the only one that's making ANY sense.
love you x
It just occurred to me that one of the differences betweeen movie and book Chani is that, movie Chani wants freedom; in the way that many young idealists want freedom. But she doesn't understand that in order for the Fremen to be free from anyone's rule, they must rule the Empire, through Paul. Kind of like how the American Empire behaved during the cold war.
_it just occurred to me that one of the differences betweeen movie and book Chani is that, movie Chani wants freedom; in the way that many young idealists want freedom. But she doesn't understand that in order for the Fremen to be free from anyone's rule, they must rule the Empire, through Paul_
OMG, you guys really do not understand Dune, at all.
it's almost tragic, you think you are explaining the book to the filmmaker, when you really don't understand the book or the film.
It is absolutely not the case in this story that in order for the Fremen to be free, Paul must 'rule' the empire.
That was never the intent of Herbert who specifically stated over and over - from the late 60's til his death in 1986 that he intended Dune as WARNING AGAINST messianic leaders (like Paul).
The character Chani actually comes the closest to representing Herbert's stated intent.
It is a deconstruction of hero narrative not an iteration of it, which is what you want to see.
On simplist possible terms:
Paul Atreides is not Jake Skully.
Chani is not Neytiri.
Paul is not a Mary Sue (Superman).
Chani is not a Lois Lane, Mary Jane (Save Me and i'll give you some... hottie. lol).
This film is not the droid you are looking for!
(Bless the maker for that) 😊
when are you reviewing X-Men '97?
NOPE, NOPE, I'm not with that taking source material and turning it towards how things are in the world. Screw that. I'm here to see a movie and not to be reminded about crap going on in the world. That being said....I, overall, didn't mind Zendaya in this, EXCEPT for how THIS version of Chani had some "modern attitude" crap going on, or something. She tells Paul he should go and lead everyone, where he keeps fearing he shouldn't go to. Then, when he does go to that place, she gets mad at him for taking steps, which could have killed him, to prove to everyone he is the leader. So she leaves mad in a huff. Then, when Paul is starting to prove that everyone should follow him, she come storming in pissed off about how he is being, and leaves mad again. THEN, when she finds out that she is going to be second to Paul, because Paul is going to marry a daughter of another power house to combine the power, she storms off again to go ride some sand worms. WHAT THE HELL? The books, original movie, and tv series all had the character Chani, portrayed the same way, with at the end, she's still being supportive and knowing what role she would be in because that's how royalty just works most the time. This version kept having her getting pissed off. This version also didn't have Paul's little sister actually being born and getting a little older to then kill Baron Harkonnen. Paul just walks in, up to him and stabs him. Well, that was easy.
“Taking source material and turning it towards how things are in the world”
^ You understand nothing. Herbert’s source material IS about HOW THINGS ARE IN THE WORLD.
All of Dune is that. Dune is not and never was a mindless escapist fantasy - when you attempt to reduce it to that the one who is PERVERTING the source material - is you.
@@summertyme5748 are you talking about Israelis and Palestinians? Vis a vis Harkonnen and Fremen?
YIPPIE! i was waiting for this, wanna know Danika´s opinion.
Loved your video Danika! I agree with you almost 100%! I liked part 1 slightly better than part 2 because of the pacing. I felt like part 2 was a little unbalanced and didn't really build to a climax the way it should have. But both films were great. I've been a huge Dune fan since I read the books as a teenager in the 90's. The ending of part 2 felt rushed. Heck, even the 1984 Dune film had a more impactful climatic ending with a bigger final battle. And you're right about the final scene. It was not in the book. You're 100% right about Chani in this film. In the book Chani understood what Paul was doing and stood by him. Chani was annoying in this movie, and that last scene pissed me off too.
I had the same reaction to Lady Jessica. She was crying way to much in part 1, but at least they toughened her up (and weirded her out) in part 2.
And where are the weirdning modules??? I know the 1984 film was kinda cheesy and more like a stage play in some parts, but at least it leaned into some of the mystical parts of the books. That stuff was totally missing here.
Danika, you're so beautiful and this video was really entertaining. Keep doing what you're doing. P.S. I have the same red board copy of Dune. Awesome to see another collector!
I have many copies of DUNE but had to show off the CHILTON 💅🏻
Awesome review. Thank you so much for putting this on RUclips. I love how excited and animated you get about Dune.
Oh, c'mon! The Fremen are human - OF COURSE there are different sects! How many different sects are there in Catholicism? Islam? Buddhism? Hinduism? Zen?
And none of those are even PLANETARY religions!
(Supergirl as Chani would be very Dances With Wolves convenient)
Zendaya’ Chani is a better character period. None of the conversation about Dune previously - book or TV series or Lynch movie ever discussed her at all. Because she was a romantic interest to Paul and NOTHING MORE. Now she is the center of discussion. Of course that makes her and the actress objects of resentment to fans. That’s par for the course. She’s a better character. She’s mature - rational, and strong, and her world does not revolve around Paul….which is what the ‘fan critics’ really don’t like, because they over identify with Paul, and feel slighted. 😂
@@summertyme5748 the point of the book/story was that the Kwisatz Haderach was such a powerful and charismatic personality, both mentally and physically that he warped the minds of those around him. They either grew to worship him or hate him (his enemies). If you have Chani just shrug off the effect of a veritable superhuman and not get lost in the whirlwind then it takes away from the tragedy (of the persons being diminished into grains of sand). It also makes the hero-worship effect less threatening, less powerful, less dangerous, if some mere human can be unaffected by it.
All in all, I think you're projecting too much in this story. You put your own feelings and ideas into it, but stories aren't meant to be fan-fiction. If an author writes stories about another time period or another world then you can't as a fan start demanding modern world sensibilities and norms being injected where they shouldn't be. You can still make your point without altering the world-building in such a way. Showing something doesn't mean you support it.
If the author describes rape, it doesn't mean he's trying to promote it. If he describes patriarchy it doesn't means he thinks it's for the best.
I totally agree. Chani wasn't casted well, and I hated her character change. Her getting pouty every five seconds seemed weird. I really hated that they made her character a naive child. Chani definitely understood that Paul needed to marry the princess to have legitimacy in his rule.
Zendaya was horribly miscast.
I'm just happy to see you're still making videos!
Stilgar is the friend everyone needs. he was my favorite part of this movie.
*I'd be really honored if you read my theory for the Dune films. Which explains why they differ from the novel. It might seem silly at first. But keep reading a little. I've been watching your Dune vids forever. And I 100% agree with your review. So I think you might dig it.*
What we're watching *isn't* the story of Paul from the books. It's an alternate timeline. Where Paul decides to drink the water of life two years earlier. And I think it might actually be real! The secret motivation behind the writing of this three part saga. And it explains everything.
The key to this theory is Jamis. In part one, Paul's exposure to spice begins to fuel visions that come in fragments. That's where we first meet Jamis. In a vision Paul has about his new best friend, teaching him the ways of the Freman. But as we know, these visions would not come to pass. As Paul kills Jamis upon meeting him in the ceremonial knife fight. But those visions are what guided Paul and Jessica safely to Stilgar and the others.
And it's safe to say that we can understand how Paul's prescience would allow him to glimpse possible futures that could yet still come to pass.
But in Dune part 2, Jamis is already long dead. Yet, just before deciding to travel south, Paul calls out to Jamis for guidance. Placing his bare hand upon the spice, which lay atop the sand. "Talk to me, Jamis". And Jamis answers him. "He needs to see... as far as he can see. You need to SEE."
So not only can this Paul see possible futures... he can also access splinters in time. Viewing moments, completely sealed off by his timeline. After his visions of Jamis fade, Paul sits quite heartbroken. He knows something. Chani approaches to comfort him. She can see that he's burdened by sadness. She tells him "the world has made choices for us." We find out why he's so saddened. "If I go south, I might lose you." She reassures him that he will never lose her, so long as he stays who he is. He is clearly not convinced. But tells Chani he will go south with her. She's relieved and kisses Paul. It's their last kiss. Perhaps forever. He doesn't look any happier for it. He finishes his thought... "and I will do what must be done." And looks absolutely defeated.
Clearly, we aren't seeing all his visions. Because the visions we've seen from Paul show Chani side-by-side WITH Paul as the Messiah. Both in matching black ceremonial garb. Commanding the holy war. And THAT'S Paul from the books.
He is AVOIDING the timeline in the Dune novels. The timeline where she becomes his faithful concubine. His ride-or-die queen. Because, as we know, it will cost Chani her life! But by taking the water of life two years earlier, before their love can fully develop, where they'd have a child together... she will turn against Paul for taking his place as their prophesied messianic leader. Thus, saving her life. And he is mourning the loss of her love, for the sake of her survival.
And that's exactly what happens. He takes the water early. Turns her against him. Finds the "narrow way". Converts the Freman. Triggers the Emperor with an official challenge. And it's two years earlier. So he takes a few extra stabs in the fight because his powers and abilities haven't had as much time to develop. And Chani leaves. Avoiding the events of Dune: Messiah. Which he says, she will come to understand one day. He has seen that too.
And when he said that, we were all hoping he meant, she'll get over it and love him again. But that isn't it at all! She will understand one day, why he did what he did. To save her. But she'll never see him the same way again.
In their final conversation, she tells him angrily "this isn't over". Meaning she won't let him get away with this. She wants to expose him as a fraud to her people. And he's already seen it. The path he's sadly chosen. "I just want you to know... I will love you for as long as I breathe". He says it like it's goodbye. Nothing is a mystery to him anymore.
She still cares for him enough to look a bit worried when he's stabbed. But doesn't kneel with her people when he claims the title of Emperor. He looks back to her. This is it. She walks away. From him. The army. The believers. No more for her. And she's determined to do something about it.
I guess we'll find out what that is in part 3. But it won't be Dune: Messiah. She won't be the concubine. She won't die in childbirth. There won't be twins. Or children of Dune. No God Emperor. Or original Golden Path. This is the different Paul.
And he's read the books too. That's what the movie's about.
Interesting theory 👌
@@comicbookgirl19 Ayyyy! Thanks for being such a real one after all these years. I'm snowed in here... That made my day!
🤘🐐🤘
You're giving waaayyy too much credit to screen writers and studio executives to even think about these kind of theories. They just wanted to make Zendaya a badass. Else she wouldn't have done the movie. It's all about political agendas and profit these days in hollywood.
If this is true and you're right
That's a really stupid choice
They would dishonor and spit upon all of the duneverse if they did that
As others have said, you're overthinking it way too much. Most likely it's just political/social agendas/empowering women/strong independant woman etc woke bulshit, Hollywood reeks of it and D.V. couldnt get away completely from that cause of the studio. Same with Liet Kynes, no reason for the genderswap unless you have certain agenda/diversity hire quotas/pushed for by someone - the actress did very good, I even like her but that doesn't remove the fact why she was casted.
I suspect this was also the reason we got that female friend of Chani so much which was given so many lines & badass ending while being a completely invented character for the movie (not in the books) and literally does nothing and is of no matter of importance to the story/doesnt move the story forward in any way. IN THE SAME TIME we are removing Thufir Hawat and Count Fenring?
like wtf?
At this point this is clearly a pattern, not just coincidence.
Danika! Thank you for this video, the first thing I rushed to RUclips to watch after seeing Dune 2.
Hearing your thoughts on the movie brought such a massive smile to my face, bringing me back to when you posted reviews regularly. I've been subbed to your channel for almost a decade, and I made a habit of watching your videos immediately after seeing a movie, as your dissections are always considered and reasoned.
I know I’m not the only one who would come back to watch a deeper dive review, as this was a treat I treasured. So thank you, and congrats on your upcoming film! 🙏🏽
My only real complaint about both movies is Lady Jessica. 100% agree she was played too weak. Especially in the first one when she was crying or when the was shaking in fear while paul was being tested.
Had David Bowie not died, he would've played Jared Leto's part in Bladerunner 2049.
Imagine if he and Denis got along and then Denis cast him as the emperor in Dune 2. Too good.
I was okay w/ the complicating of the Fremen. It's at least plausible. It's an okay way of consolidating and expressing all of the challenges to Paul we get in the book.
Just watched Dune II tonight. I absolutely loved it! Now I want to read the books!
You have an AWESOME channel !
Please don't ever stop.
Thanks for the review as a non book reader I've always enjoyed hearing your knowledge of the source material.
I agree, a series of like, 8 episodes adapting Dune could be amazing. It could give all sorts of backstory, it could elaborate on each of the power factions, it could give us more about how the worms are connected with the spice. There could be a whole episode just for the dinner party. There would be time to see Alia born, time to see Stilgar's slow transformation from mentor to friend to worshiper, time for other subplots like Thufir suspecting Jessica. Maybe in a decade or two we'll get another big budget adaptation.
Apparently none of of you have seen the series that has already been made for Dune and Children of Dune.
They are both better than Lynches film - but don’t even come close to Denis vision.
The idea of just doing more of it, so that each event in the book can be repeated - is something a fan of a book would say, but sorry, that’s never the key to good Cinema.
Was also said about Kubrick’s the Shining by the way, but then Stephen King wrote the Screenplay for the mini series which *no one remembers.*
My point is there has already been a mini series and you ALREADY DON’T REMEMBER IT. So I rest my case. 😊
@@summertyme5748 Dune series had many issues. Low budget, bad acting, bad directing. It was almost unwatchable by non-fans.
Children of Dune was much better. In all respects. I would put the 1984 movie in between these two for enjoyment. But they were closer to the books. They're like theater plays.
I'd rather they do something new with the movies. After Messiah, do Children of Dune movie. Then do God Emperor and then Heretics and then Chapterhouse. Just go full Dune :P
7 movies sounds tight.
@@summertyme5748I'm aware of the miniseries. Thanks for the essay, though.
Hi. I want to say thank you for your content. It been something I have enjoyed over the years.
I think the issue with these changes is they force further changes down the line, so we are left wondering how they keep things on track, i am not sure its possible.
Denis keeps telling himself to disengage, his most fanatic followers grow weary of him now that years have passed since his first cinematic victory, they call him out for not adhering to Herbert doctrine, Denis loses his sight after staring at film reels too long, walks into the desert to let the sands have him as prescribed by Fremen/Herbert law. The end. Lol.
@@jonathanwright5338 yeah, that's how I see it playing out
Very happy to see you back(?) Comicbook Girl 19. Its been too long.💕. Totally agree that part 2 is the better of the two movies.
Well said! Thanks for Dune Club and all the great content over the years. It's been a fun ride. I'm thankful for you!
Mediaversity (basically anti incel film reviews )
_The most memorable character in the film, however, is Chani (Zendaya). Unlike in Part One, she finds substantial screen time that drives the narrative. Even when she solely acts as Paul’s love interest at the start, Chani undergoes a satisfying arc, serving as a counterpoint to the film’s examination of messianic worship. She regularly questions the idea of fate as well as Paul’s motives, all while proving herself to be a capable fighter and survivor._
I don't agree the whole review, but agree on this point. Chani - is one of the best things about this film.
I could see Zendaya nominated for an Oscar for this role. She and Shamalamabingbong (courtesy Florence Pugh).
Most of the reviews of the film are exactly 100% opposite of many on this site.
- Chani’s character receives MAJOR UPGRADE beyond love interest for Paul.
- Zendaya gives an excellent performance.
- If there is one criticism of the film - it’s that Dene didn’t go far enough towards fleshing out her role and perspective.
No one thinks - film is bad because Zendaya is antagonist to Paul instead of a concubine - which she was in the book.
That’s just you. (Film has now made $500 Mil at the box office, with A cinema score as well)’
Just saying - some of you you may want to rethink your views on Chani in the film, or maybe just ‘think’ period.
She never has a bad pause face. I've paused it multiple times to look at the memes and screenshots edited in. That's a super power.
Oh yesss! We are the same about Jessica. She was not my favorite in both movies but I watched another video that changed my mind. In the second movie she is acting just like she was in the books, but there everything she does is portrayed in a more heroic way, more sympathetic. And in this movie she is portrayed more like the antagonist, she is a villain almost. But even this is keeping with the books (my mother is my enemy), she does have a more regrettable view in the end when she told Paul to marry Chani, but she was still supporting his decisions. But every bad thing she was doing in this movie, she was doing in the books too, just interpreted differently.
Fascinating thoughts and reflections on all things Dune as always - thanks for the cool analysis 👏
One of my own thoughts on the portrayal of Chani in this film compared to the novel and her hostility towards Paul post his awakening as the Kwisatz Haderach. Herbert had several deeper themes buried into Dune, one of which is the message "beware of heroes". This can be missed in the book and even more so in the film given the nature of the Fremo-Atreides struggle against the Harkonnens and Emperor. I got the distinct impression her character was being played as someone whose eyes were open to consequences of Paul fulfilling his fate; her questioning of his presented greatness and triumph challenges the viewer to take a step back and question Muad'Dib's victory despite the tone at end of the movie.
So perhaps Chani's character in Dune (2023) can be regarded as Herbert's silent narrator on one of the novel's deeper themes?
Thanks again for the video, I'm very much looking forward to more CBG19 Dune content!
While I totally understand that you had to rush this, your voice was one I was actually looking forward to seeing when speaking about the movies. So many people are missing SO MUCH of the point of Dune. Thank goodness we have you!
I was finally able to read the manga titles behind you. Rose of Versailles, and I look forward to reading them!
I was smiling through the whole movie (except for that last scene because the book's last scene was exquisite). I especially loved Paul's awakening in the cave with his speech. That gave me actual chills. I was smiling until I was scared and ready to fight for him. Hurrah! Also, all the scenes with Feyd were creepy in the best ways possible; 10/10 for Feyd. A solid 7.5/10 for the whole. 9.5/10 for the directing; I will see anything Villeneuve directs from here on out.