Ribbon Mics: The Good & The Bad (Cascade Fathead)
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
- FATHEAD MIC: www.joelikes.com/fathead
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I wouldn't gesticulate that much with a ribbon in my hands...
Também, não.
Here's this ribbon mic that has a ribbon made of 2.5 micron aluminum foil and is very lightly corrugated and very easy to stretch and tear so let me hand it to the Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man....
@@10100rsn Yeah
Thumbs up for using "gesticulate"! lol
I had to Google what that word meant lmao
Hi Joe, great video! It's Ribbon Mic week on our channels!! I hope you're well! I've used the Cascade and love it! Worked great as a mono room mic for drums and was good on guitars when pulled back and didn't get too much SPL. Keep up the amazing work my friend!
Sorry to be so off topic but does someone know a method to get back into an Instagram account..?
I stupidly lost the password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me!
@Dax Omari Instablaster :)
@Kannon Braylon i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out now.
Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Kannon Braylon DAMN IT ACTUALLY WORKED! Literally got access to my IG login within roughly 40 mins by using the site.
Had to pay 15 $ but definitely worth the price :)
Thanks so much you saved my ass!
@Dax Omari You are welcome xD
I love them on acoustic guitar! Especially when it’s just guitar and vocals! The Rode NTR active ribbon sounds excellent on vocals too!
One interesting thing that is known on *some* ribbons that are not perfectly centered front to back (offset) the backside of the mic can often times be a tad brighter than the front side. A good example is the r-series royer ribbon mics. So try flipping the fathead around on those darker sources. That acoustic might just work in that case!
Great video Joe!
Great video as always....the face you put on when playing the tambourine..hahahahah
I found out that using an SM57 pointing at the center of the cone and putting the Fathead pointing sideways just behind the SM57's XLR input gives a very nice M-S combination that sounds very accurate on record. Or if your cab has two or more speakers, place the SM57 centered on one cone, and the Fathead on another cone, sideways centered.
Interesting, when you say mid-side, do you mean duplicating the side track and flipping the phase? I know you normally do that in MS, but wasn’t sure if you do that with this technique
Lots of knowledge displayed in this video. Great information and great job on the vid
Got my fathead like 8 years ago, still one of my favorite amp mics ever, and solid for rooms and drums!
Such good advice on getting this as a second or third mic. Appreciate the video, thank you.
you're awesome! I did a test with the same mic and i freaking flipped out! That's the sound I've been looking for! You are RAD! Thank you!
Excellent video-straight to the point,no fluff & droning on,no irritating guitar store music and no trying to be clown with unfunny shtick! Nice one Joe,respect.
Awesome! Thank you!
I love the vocal sound with this mic. I understand it maybe need boost high frequencies to fit in a modern mix, but sounds really good.
Thanks Joe!
Awesome review thanks
damn joe, you sold me on this! hope cascade took care of you!
On point!
Proximity effect can be a big deal with ribbon mics
I love my Fat Heads in Blumlein as overheads - don't have to do anything to them to make them it in the mix :-)
Im recordingmy ludwig classic maple with akg 414 spaced pair and cascade fathead 2 in blumlein as well, 421's on toms,and audix i5 and d6 snare and kick. into two warm wa412's
Very helpful, thanks
Just bought one randomly and then watched the reviews. Your review is very accurate.
Great video! Just subscribed. Very informative and useful, although I must say I disagree on the acoustic guitar point: to my ears that sounds exactly like how I’d want an acoustic to sound on a solo vocals/guitar song. Just the right amount of warmth and smoothness!
This is the best review of seen of microphones.
I have the II model with the upgraded transformer. One can switch between "active" and "passive" mode, the latter better exhibiting the character of a paired preamp. Mine is in storage at the moment but despite your perspective, I hold out hope it will sound good on vocals. A lot will depend on the pre, but I really hate having to de-ess vocal tracks. My voice seems particularly prone to that so a silkier, smoother top end is welcomed. I look forward to determining whether it works for my purposes. :)
I agree completely on micing guitar cabs.
If you want to fix this microphone for vocals, add a 600/600 ohm transformer. You can also add more ohms (up to 2k or so, for secondaries)
That will help your proximity problem. Also it will brighten up your microphone. I own the same mic. Found this to be a solution.
Would you slide in hand claps into the same category of percussion, with the shakers?
I had to a mix a few weeks back with claps and you'd think something so simple would be easy, but the track in question sounded like it had been recorded with a very sensitive condenser mic --- it was undesirably clear.
Thanks for the tips. I have a pair of the Fatheads (Lundahl transformer version) and was going to sell them. Not now. Percussion sounded great. Amp sounded fat.
Ribbon mics on acoustic are awesome. just roll off the low end. Not a lot to do.
@@garyhynes use EQ
@@garyhynes basically utilizing a high pass or low cut filter in your eq to remove a bit of the low frequencies.
@@garyhynes for sure, best of luck
Also, just make sure not to have it too close to the guitar.
This was exactly what I found with this mic. Remarkably terrible on most of the stuff you want it to be good at, but really excellent on electric guitar and percussion. The low price justifies having it live in front of my amp.
Ribbons are not dark, condensers are hyped
JD Simo talked about this mic on his rig rundown. He uses it on his 100 watt Marshall stack pretty damn close. Got me one, compared it many expensive "classic " guitar mics. Including 57s and 121. Never looked back.Best purchase ever. I use it live and in studio on my 50 watt vintage Hiwatt CRANKED THE FUCK UP.
Albini did great things on drums with ribbon mics
Looks like I'm about 4 years late to this video but does anyone know the difference between the Fathead BE, the Fathead (I'm assuming the one in this video), and the Fathead II? Not much info online but I found something that said that the BE was identical except it came with fewer accessories and simple packaging.
Great video, just curious, which “fathead” is this, the original, the BE, or the II?
I wonder if it would sound good behind an open back guitar amp to capture the lows? Awesome video!
Great vid... subbed
One thing to mention about ribbon mics, unless you have a very quiet mic pre you will need to purchase something like the "Cloudlifter" to boost the signal before the mic pre.
When you demonstrate how it sounds with the electric guitar it sounds too dark. Paired with a 57 it must sound awesome though.
Thank you for the video, great intention, but these were used into a mixing board or pre-amp with significant EQ high shelf back in the day
In video speak it's like shooting video in Log Raw and color grading after because it retains the image quality better
Hope this helps in your exploration of ribbon microphone, keep it up
Hello,
Thanks for your perspective. How do you think it would sound with something like a banjo ? An acoustic instrument but really on the bright side ?
Might work well? Can't know without trying it.
thank you
Nice video, but I have to say, this microphone can be amazing on an acoustic guitar, if you have the right preamp and with a bit of EQ - We have a song titled "Closer," and we recorded an acoustic version using this exact microphone, going through a Solo 610 tube preamp - Pointing the mic at the 12 fret of the guitar and slightly tilted towards the headstock - I really love how it turned out and all we had to do in post was ramp up some brightness with a high shelf at 10k and remove some 250-300 herz - Ribbon mics can sound darker when back to back with a condenser, but I feel they really take post production well and it's easy to make them bright without them sounding too spitty. We use this on vocals a lot for the same reason, but even in this case, pre-amp choice is vital - if you want to go the ribbon route, it's worth to invest in a really nice pre with ample headroom
So would you say that that Ribbon mic would be good on Hip-Hop vocals?
Found a new ribbon mic, active and with a case and suspension mount it's only $179 Canadian! Worth a look and it's getting great reviews. And that's for an active ribbon with a 20Hz to 18Khz. Ribbons are great with things like sax too. And for drums, vertically mounted over the kick to catch the impact head and cymbals too, then compress the shit out of it, add tons of EQ, and don't add it in the mix until all the other channels are done, then slowly fade that channel in and man, it's amazing how big your kit will sound! Like taking cotton out of your ears.
One thing to consider using a ribbon on acoustic is placement. Where you had it further up the neck tends to be the warmer spot for micing an acoustic in the first place. If I were micing an acoustic with a ribbon, I would probably place the mic by the bridge which typically gives a much brighter response.
Good point. I wanted to show how it sounded in the spot where I normally record acoustic.
I personally thought that amp recording sounded too dark with the fathead. A Fender deluxe *should* sparkle.
I've had my Cascade Fathead II (w/Lundahl transformer) for about ten years now and absolutely love it on acoustic! But, I guess it all depends on what kind of music you're recording, how dense the mix is, and the vibe you're going for. I play Gypsy Swing where the acoustic is the featured lead instrument and I appreciate the warmth and treble roll-off. Also the OMNI pattern of a ribbon reduces the boomy proximity effect (especially from an acoustic archtop soloing with 13's). Another mic that I've really been digging is the Warm Audio WA47Jr... it's fairly inexpensive and has a little more silky/buttery tone than many other condenser mics. It also has three different polar patterns and sounds best and most natural (to me) in OMNI. I'm looking forward to blending both mics (in mono) on my next recording and seeing what I can come up with. Oh... I'm also running both mics through a Soyuz Launcher Deluxe which adds a little more sweetness with real transformers (in boost mode for the FHII and in line saturation mode for the WA47Jr). I've heard about the great sound people are getting from blending a FHII with an SM57 on guitar cabs as well, but I have yet to try that. Thanks for your videos, I have found them helpful!
Thanks Joe.
Are you running the Fathead directly into your SL desk or do you have another Preamp you're using?
I'm reluctant to buy a ribbon because I haven't found anywhere that says my Presonus preamp will have enough gain to power it properly.
Right into the StudioLive.
awesome! I might start adding ribbons to my collection. Thanks Joe
It does sound great - are you using overdrive or distortion
I use ribbon to record low vocal songs or really high ones. It gives even more warmth to the low vocals and takes away harshness from the screechy headvoice.
Hey Joe!
Please do something with mixing piano..
Great video. How do you like the new Royer R-10? For Guitar cabs & acoustic? Thanks.
Never used it.
I'm a big fan! Also used the Cascade in the past, also a very versatile mic!
Try ribbon for doubing vocals though.. OMG thats the best!! Sits real good in the mix!
Why don't use multiple microphones at one time - for brightness, for middles, for darker part - and the EQ it by adjusting volume of each track? Like Snare Top and Snare Bottom thing. I never tried recording guitar (only e835s by sennhiser for clean gtr and sounds great), really interested about it.
You run into a lot of potential phase issues when you add multiple microphones to one source the main reason you mic the bottom and the top of the snare is to capture the cables stretched under the bottom head. You could "potentially" do this with multiple mics and one source but you really don't get the same "massive" changes from mic to mic, it's more slight changes that when used properly results in a better sound. So all in all it would be a heck of a lot of work for not much result.
Jonathan Galle thanks I think I got your opinion. I do experiment sometimes with virtual cabs and microphones such as "Shred" plugin, kuassa amplifiers, mercurial plugins etc and I use the "triple(or sometimes more) method" to achieve a tone that I want, can't name it a perfect way to do it, but it works. Yeah, takes alot of tries to match each one with another, and that's quite enjoyable for me
Ribbon on a lot of instrument while not the most accurate, it sounds really, really natural and pleasant like on strings and often also on certain voices (like bright female ones.)
But you gotta distance it. Like your vocal example, in the studio I'd put it even further. But the issue with that is room treatment. It has to be near dead if you are going to compress it.
Is the fat head 1 model?? Or is especial edition, I mean your is gold... they sound the same?? Thanks
I've always heard exactly the opposite: that ribbon mics are great on acoustic guitars. I wonder what would happen if you blended it with a brighter mic.
yea I love ribbons on steel string acoustic
Joe G. Thanks! Lundahl X-former mod?
Wooooow wonder how many new ribbon mic owners watched this video heard you say ribbons are charged with phantom power without a disclaimer that phantom power can destroy the ribbon of most ribbons..and then hit their phantom power destroying their mix. I hope not many.
What strings do you put on your J45? Mine tends to be slightly brittle on the top end when recorded.
Gotta be careful not to have a high bronze content in your strings.
Ribbons generally sound great on horns. I've used a Shure & sE Electronics on sax & trumpet in the studio. Had the pleasure of using some AEA ribbons on sax, trumpet, & trombone with a (very loud) band live & they made it so the horns could be heard in the mix without hurting your ears which can happen with the SM57 in the same scenario
Hi Dylan, yes, I love the AEA! Wes makes amazing mics!
They truly are! Definitely on the list of mics I hope to one day own myself
so what about ribbon condensors?
But Joe why this one? What about the top end of this kind of mic? Or do you mean any ribbon?
Ribbons are generally darker, but like I said in the video nicer ribbons like Royers tend to be a little brighter.
Another thing to consider with ribbon's - is how well they "take" hf eq. Nice ribbons sound sweet with a touch of hf.
Also: how about a video recording bass, synth, piano, violin, mandolin, banjo with the Fathead (Yours and mine are the Fatheads with Lundahl transformer btw - there is a difference.)
it counts a lot the quality of th xformervand the input impedance of the pre, that shouldn't be less tha 18-22kOhm.
what mic you use for reqing this vid? just to compare.
Just the Rode camera mic on my camera.
@@HomeStudioCorner thanks
Angle the ribbon mic at the same angle as the cone of the speaker (or at an angle to any other sound source). ;)
Don’t forget with anything not super loud, the ribbon mic is picking up a lot of the room (facing away from the source) which is probably boomy
Also this is one of the reason why people say that ribbons hear like our ears, because of the figure of 8 pattern (our ears hear from 2 sides)
Keep moving that ribbon mic in this way and you'll get a piece of metal with no sound...Ribbon mics are delicated!
I like it on acoustic
Dat slowly drooping mic doe... :)
Careful gesticulating like that with the Fathead, Duder. Those tiny tiny little screws inside of the middle metal surround of the Fathead do not take well to road wear. At all. Once those little internal neck screws strip out, that’s it. All you’re left with is a bobble fathead and some weird extra “tone” in the signal you don’t want.
I thought you had salt and pepper shakers on your desk
That is one of the cheapest ribbon mics you can buy, and there are mod kits to improve them now as well. A good ribbon will sound much more open than the Cascade Fathead will, but that mic is great for miking bass amps and guitar as well I would assume. A good ribbon will cost at least 3 times as much as the Fat Head, so it is a great buy for an amp mic, but if it's dented it's likely broken so I can't trust this audio file you used. With a 2.5 micron ribbon, even laying them sid ways for any length of time destroys the ribbon element.
In each example he is placing the mic in the worst possible place for a ribbon. I have these mics and they are terrific if used properly.
However not all ribbons are created equal!
Used table-top ribbons in court/conference setting 4 yrs. Base isolates rear from ambient sounds. Frontal range has hemispherical, near-field pattern (at least for the pro models $500-$1,200 range). Used ones much less on eBay. Place 8-12" from speak to get ALL frequencies (low, mids, highs). Phantoms ver only, use hiQ cables. Great for non-operatic voices.
Your take on ribbons seems to be a little one-dimensional... you're only considering frequency response. Personally, the smoothness of the transients is the entire point (which is why they're so good on drums, which have huge transients). No drums in the video, though.
I'm curious if that was the best mic position you could find, for acoustic guitar (you weren't even wearing headphones)? Not once in my life have I ever recorded acoustic guitar with the mic pointed towards the sound hole. It's always too boomy, and there's no way you don't know that... so what are we even doing her? Creating ribbon mic AGITPROP?
Okaayy,,,,who else jumped forward to catch the dynamic?
😂 good reflexes.
Dark can be desirable… It’s another color.
i think to get a good result with mic on folk guitare, you absolutely woudn't put in , in the "hole" way... like ever :D
It´s absolutely wrong to say, that a ribbon on acoustic guitar is not great. Maybe this mic with this guitar, but not in general. The SE Voodoo VR2 for example is great on acoustics
cool! The Fathead does not
I didn't like it on your amp but I like jangly guitars so maybe that's why. I have one and its alright on amps but I found that I use my sm57 way more. But sometime for whatever reason the 57 is way too ice picky like you said so I'll use the fathead. It all depends on they type of music.
No phantom power on ribbon mics.
Could you imagine if you had to understand the electronics to use the microphone -_-
You’ve got rattling shelves.
I think the electric sounded bad maybe cause it was a hollow body electric?And I thought the acoustic guitar sounded great! The vocals sounded nice and airy and warm which I like! I think people are thinking warm! Since digital is awful in that job! I think the ribbon is very useful for digital!
Ribbons aren't that good for steel string acoustics BUT................... nylons are magical with them.
you don't want detail for a guitar amp - ribbons hide detail
record barry white with it hahaha
now i understand why they use ribbons to record Adele
a ribbon is a dynamic mike
Yeah but it's also a ribbon mic, so decidedly different from a typical dynamic mic like an SM57.
gesturing with a ribbon mic isn't the best idea
I’m cringing every time he waves that mic around through the air
To all ribbon noobs, make sure...MAKE SURE you throw the phantom power as soon as you plug your new (or preferably vintage) ribbon mic in. This is incredibly important. If you don’t, you risk having a ribbon mic for a long time and no one needs that. It just spoils you for guitar cab recording...you’ll thank me later...
What he means is don’t use phantom power. In some cases it can destroy the ribbon, but it’s not that common.
Definitely check your mic some new ones have a pre amp that uses phantom. But be super careful unless you are anxious to stop using it, like he said 🤪
I was thinking about picking up blue’s ribbon for that exact reason. If it sounds good and there’s no chance of destroying it with phantom power, win/win