i used the vaxee testing kit and out of all their mice the np01s was the best for my palm grip, like a rly small palm grip mouse where my entire hand covers and the pinkey extended also fits perfectly (18x11cm). Maybe the best palm grip mouse i used and i mained stuff like mx518 ec2 shapes but always liked the fk2 too and i palm the op18k the same as everything else somehow. Hated the air58 front flare shape and viper v2 (and the superlight i could never hold the same untill 3 years later, now i love it even got the gpx2)
Why does no one make mice for very large hands apart from Zowie? Deathadder V3 is what a lot of people recommend but if you have 20 cm hands or more it's too small.
I mean I have like same hands and I don't find it small per say, depends how you hold it. I don't like ergo shapes. Used Zowie S1-C which is a larger version, can't see anyone wanting larger, for it's mainly wanting a decent grip width for my claw grip. Using Vaxee XE now it's awesome.
Bc they probably have the data showing them that the market is way too small for it to be worth it. Most people with 20-21cm hands have no problem finding a mouse that works for them whereas if they made a mouse specifically for that hand size it would only be usable for like 5-10% of the market at most.
How do you know if a mouse is good for claw grip? Like how do you create that table where you show different mice and what the suitable grips are and hand dimensions range?
Why the hell can no one do a intellimouse shape but lighter with top sensor and cable/wireless. Recently got op1 8k and I am probably going back to my intellimouse pro. I aim so much better with my fingertip grip
Hey zy, would you say np01s is my best option if I want something that gives the most space for my pinky and ring finger (especially pinky) to grip on the mouse for 18x9cm hands? I don't like ergonomic mice because they're tilted, and I'm not sure if symmetrical mice combat this issue, potentially ones with a wide back flare could help, I don't know such as the U2 or xm2. Please let me know. I space my ring and pinky finger out, and I like to grip the mouse a further up on the mouse in terms of my pinky and ring finger. I also like when the pinky sits out further than my ring finger, instead of being squished next to my ring finger if that makes sense, just feels more natural. If not the np01s, please give me other options. Also if you're ever selling the np01s I'm happy to buy it off you if you're willing to sell it (I'm a fellow Aussie). I loved the m64 pro, but personally it felt too hand filling for me, although the curvature on the right hand side was something to die for. The only game I play these games are VALORANT, and thank you in advance.
does this mouse work with macos ? am i forced to plug in a 3000 feet cable to use this mouse ? no little 1k usb-a receiver like with the logitech superlight ?
I need a mouse that has the same latency and performance as the g pro superlight and viper v3 pro but smaller to hold, and lighter? What would you recommend.
Glass pad users want direct control. I would not recommend a heavier mouse to compensate for lack of mouse control, no matter what. People can learn and glass pad users are generally more eager to
@ im not a prime example of a mouse control and aim nerd type of player but ive been learning glass pads for over 2 years now and still see growth potential. Other players like Optimum Tech and a few of my aim duel friends got comfortable within a month and saw improvements over the next half year. I think glass padders are a different type of person with enthusiasm for persuing perfection over having something that "just works". It takes a long time to learn and get improvements out of, compared to cloth pads. I said this in a previous comment a year or so ago but i think the way you like to hold and control your mouse doesnt really match up with the strengths a glass surface can provide. Your grip style afai can tell focuses on stability and reproducability of movements, which is something i kind of had to unlearn before getting benefits from a glass pad. For reference id recommend one of Optimum Techs lates videos on his mouse where you can see the other end of that spectrum. He preferred and was comfortable moving mice this way before trying a glass pad and had almost no trouble adjusting to and getting benefits from it.
So there's this thing I've noticed where most games don't really rely on raw aim like Clan Arena does in Quake Live, especially 1v1. The only time I truly know when a mouse is good is in that 1v1, high pressure game against an opponent that is really good and will punish every mistake/miss. So while it's interesting to hear other people's opinions and what they've found, like you mentioning my grip may be part of why I can't get used to glass pads, I also don't think people are playing a game or mode that really pushes them to aim their best. And it's not something they can understand until they play a game like Clan Arena 1v1. Even aim trainers aren't going to simulate that. I'm not saying they're bad players incapable of knowing what's good, there are plenty of people who can out aim me, but what I am saying is I don't think even they know what they're going to aim best with yet, because they're not putting themselves in a game that relies on aim that much. It's something that has to be experienced to really understand, just like I can't comment on what it's like to flick click heads in Counter Strike, that's an aim type that's so foreign to me. It's something I will have to learn first, then I'll understand. 1v1 Quake Live Clan Arena is the ultimate aim test so far, and that can't be understood until it's played properly. I've been playing on glass pad again lately in Apex and thought I was doing pretty well. I even played Quake Live against some friends and they thought I was playing well. But as soon as I got into that Clan Arena situation, I knew I wasn't aiming well. It's like weight lifting... you can get to the 90% possible gains pretty easily, but that final 10% is the hardest. So yeah, I can play pretty well on glass, but despite all these hours using it, I'm still only at 90% of what I can actually do if given a mouse shape and size that suits me on a nice control cloth pad. I'd love to challenge all the other reviewers/tech guys to learn Quake Live Clan Arena 1v1 to see if their opinions start to change. You could argue that if they can aim well in their chosen games, then that should be enough, but is it? If the games aren't pushing them to aim their best, how will they ever actually know they're aiming their best in that game? That's why I figured my reviews were helpful too, testing in Quake, I was able to say which mouse was good or not, so players could know that they've got the right mouse in their chosen games. I just lack recoil control and clicking heads, the rest I can comment on pretty well, even though everyone is different, the foundation should be pretty much the same.
@@RocketJumpNinja "I also don't think people are playing a game or mode that really pushes them to aim their best." - Yes I 100% agree with that impression. Most poeple talk about peripherals and aim but really only take their own comfort with something as a metric and dont put themselves in stressful situations. Ive been playing Quake 4 duels against former tournament players and other people with competetive backround on glass for about 800 hours, i play LG duels in Quake Live every now and then and enjoy playing Soldier in Overwatch, especially in 1v1 as well. I get bored and loose focus when not under constant threat of getting my shit kicked in :D In overwhelming situations i often loose the ettiquette/ practices that i developed to offset glass downsides, which i take as a skill issue on my side that has to do with my reading ability going to shit when someone better than me really outplays me. I start flicking to adjust onto target and then need 100 or so ms to loose the tension again, but can't because im not 100% focused on reading the player and they wont slow down for me just because i got overwhelmed :) I agree that how you play Quake pushes you to maximize uptime. In most games you have a bunch of variables that you can optimize to 80%, and then wont have to use aim as much to convert into a kill. Example see Donk barely moving his crosshair himself while being incredibly hard to hit, or any Quake Duel player who can keep up with someone like Tox and Serious in damage output, but not in aim. At the moment i enjoy the aspect of optimizing aim and active damage uptime over optimizing everything else, which is why i play mostly aim duels. Talking about Aim trainers, i think they have their place but only to force extreme practice in reactivity and maybe for smoothness, but dont think they can do much more for you if the goal is to aim well in games as being able to read and keep up with players baits is like 90% of what matters. Preparation does the most for improving uptime on target imo and if you dont have a thinking person on the other end who actively bullshits you with flukes and baits you are not really forced to use aim enough to differentiate between "my mouse keeps me back" and "i dont understand this guy". 2 case inserts if you care for it after my wall of text :D : 1. Player whos name Im probably not supposed to say; not known for mouse aim, maximizes uptime through his exceptional pattern recognition and his methods of reacting to it for keyboard aim: ruclips.net/video/4682BolQDck/видео.html 2. MadBadMan on RUclips who i take as one of the absolute strongest reactive aimers; speed and simultanious control and accuracy. If we are talking about raw aim, MadBadMan gets the absolute victory every time, however in direct competition they have similar results iirc. Final comment: In 2019 i bought the FK2 glossy white as my first mouse because of your reviews and work in educating on purpose and function of mice for usability in games. Served me well for a long time until the hyper optimized light weight wireless mice came out :) Thank your for that!
What's the major difference between E1 and Zygen NP-01S v2? I've just bought the E1 a few days before the announcement of this new Zygen and I'm kinda curious :O
I'm using Vaxee XE and love it. They're making web based driver which is neat, 8k polling too. Now only eventually to see optical switches and lower weight always good with full shell. As for glass pad, I wouldn't want heavier mouse for at all. To me regardless of pad, lighter always.
I need someone to explain to me why weight is such a big thing for mice enthusiasts? I've NEVER found a mouse to be "too heavy" or tiring to use for tens of hours a day. To me it's all about shape.
It's not really about tiredness, lower weight helps you be more precise by requiring less force to move the mouse especially during a clutch when pixel-level micro-adjustments might be required. Lower weight gives you option to gently nudge the mouse to make those small movements happen. There's also the faster flick acceleration speed that comes with a lighter mouse. All that being said, some people can't handle lighter mice because their aim becomes too shaky, I was in that group but eventually adjusted.
Its actually 170 EUR if you add the shipping. Something is completely off with their prices... EGG 4K mice cost 120 EUR and you can even find them on local stores.
every other 160 euro mouse has quality issues. No brand other than Vaxee will guarnatee you the mouse will work after 2 months. I wasted 160 on Lamzu and it broke instantly
Zeromouse blade review when?
Super curious for Zy's take on another RUclipsr's mouse
Yes please!
Nice video mate, straight to the point love it!
Please do the op1 8k
i used the vaxee testing kit and out of all their mice the np01s was the best for my palm grip, like a rly small palm grip mouse where my entire hand covers and the pinkey extended also fits perfectly (18x11cm).
Maybe the best palm grip mouse i used and i mained stuff like mx518 ec2 shapes but always liked the fk2 too and i palm the op18k the same as everything else somehow.
Hated the air58 front flare shape and viper v2 (and the superlight i could never hold the same untill 3 years later, now i love it even got the gpx2)
Looks cool!
Why does no one make mice for very large hands apart from Zowie? Deathadder V3 is what a lot of people recommend but if you have 20 cm hands or more it's too small.
I mean I have like same hands and I don't find it small per say, depends how you hold it. I don't like ergo shapes. Used Zowie S1-C which is a larger version, can't see anyone wanting larger, for it's mainly wanting a decent grip width for my claw grip. Using Vaxee XE now it's awesome.
Bc they probably have the data showing them that the market is way too small for it to be worth it. Most people with 20-21cm hands have no problem finding a mouse that works for them whereas if they made a mouse specifically for that hand size it would only be usable for like 5-10% of the market at most.
And I was thinking an hour ago if you were going to review that mouse
How do you know if a mouse is good for claw grip? Like how do you create that table where you show different mice and what the suitable grips are and hand dimensions range?
Why the hell can no one do a intellimouse shape but lighter with top sensor and cable/wireless.
Recently got op1 8k and I am probably going back to my intellimouse pro. I aim so much better with my fingertip grip
Time to mod one! Try to move over the shell to another mouse :D
are you gonna review hitscan hyperlight ?
Hey zy, would you say np01s is my best option if I want something that gives the most space for my pinky and ring finger (especially pinky) to grip on the mouse for 18x9cm hands? I don't like ergonomic mice because they're tilted, and I'm not sure if symmetrical mice combat this issue, potentially ones with a wide back flare could help, I don't know such as the U2 or xm2. Please let me know. I space my ring and pinky finger out, and I like to grip the mouse a further up on the mouse in terms of my pinky and ring finger. I also like when the pinky sits out further than my ring finger, instead of being squished next to my ring finger if that makes sense, just feels more natural. If not the np01s, please give me other options. Also if you're ever selling the np01s I'm happy to buy it off you if you're willing to sell it (I'm a fellow Aussie). I loved the m64 pro, but personally it felt too hand filling for me, although the curvature on the right hand side was something to die for. The only game I play these games are VALORANT, and thank you in advance.
does this mouse work with macos ? am i forced to plug in a 3000 feet cable to use this mouse ? no little 1k usb-a receiver like with the logitech superlight ?
Do you know if there are any mice with the sensors towards the front of the mouse?
I need a mouse that has the same latency and performance as the g pro superlight and viper v3 pro but smaller to hold, and lighter? What would you recommend.
Traject Maxime Mini (PA8K34GR2)
Glass pad users want direct control. I would not recommend a heavier mouse to compensate for lack of mouse control, no matter what. People can learn and glass pad users are generally more eager to
I tried glass for a month and couldn't get used to it, so I'm not so sure.
@ im not a prime example of a mouse control and aim nerd type of player but ive been learning glass pads for over 2 years now and still see growth potential. Other players like Optimum Tech and a few of my aim duel friends got comfortable within a month and saw improvements over the next half year.
I think glass padders are a different type of person with enthusiasm for persuing perfection over having something that "just works". It takes a long time to learn and get improvements out of, compared to cloth pads.
I said this in a previous comment a year or so ago but i think the way you like to hold and control your mouse doesnt really match up with the strengths a glass surface can provide. Your grip style afai can tell focuses on stability and reproducability of movements, which is something i kind of had to unlearn before getting benefits from a glass pad. For reference id recommend one of Optimum Techs lates videos on his mouse where you can see the other end of that spectrum. He preferred and was comfortable moving mice this way before trying a glass pad and had almost no trouble adjusting to and getting benefits from it.
So there's this thing I've noticed where most games don't really rely on raw aim like Clan Arena does in Quake Live, especially 1v1. The only time I truly know when a mouse is good is in that 1v1, high pressure game against an opponent that is really good and will punish every mistake/miss. So while it's interesting to hear other people's opinions and what they've found, like you mentioning my grip may be part of why I can't get used to glass pads, I also don't think people are playing a game or mode that really pushes them to aim their best. And it's not something they can understand until they play a game like Clan Arena 1v1. Even aim trainers aren't going to simulate that.
I'm not saying they're bad players incapable of knowing what's good, there are plenty of people who can out aim me, but what I am saying is I don't think even they know what they're going to aim best with yet, because they're not putting themselves in a game that relies on aim that much. It's something that has to be experienced to really understand, just like I can't comment on what it's like to flick click heads in Counter Strike, that's an aim type that's so foreign to me. It's something I will have to learn first, then I'll understand. 1v1 Quake Live Clan Arena is the ultimate aim test so far, and that can't be understood until it's played properly.
I've been playing on glass pad again lately in Apex and thought I was doing pretty well. I even played Quake Live against some friends and they thought I was playing well. But as soon as I got into that Clan Arena situation, I knew I wasn't aiming well. It's like weight lifting... you can get to the 90% possible gains pretty easily, but that final 10% is the hardest. So yeah, I can play pretty well on glass, but despite all these hours using it, I'm still only at 90% of what I can actually do if given a mouse shape and size that suits me on a nice control cloth pad.
I'd love to challenge all the other reviewers/tech guys to learn Quake Live Clan Arena 1v1 to see if their opinions start to change. You could argue that if they can aim well in their chosen games, then that should be enough, but is it? If the games aren't pushing them to aim their best, how will they ever actually know they're aiming their best in that game? That's why I figured my reviews were helpful too, testing in Quake, I was able to say which mouse was good or not, so players could know that they've got the right mouse in their chosen games. I just lack recoil control and clicking heads, the rest I can comment on pretty well, even though everyone is different, the foundation should be pretty much the same.
@@RocketJumpNinja "I also don't think people are playing a game or mode that really pushes them to aim their best." - Yes I 100% agree with that impression. Most poeple talk about peripherals and aim but really only take their own comfort with something as a metric and dont put themselves in stressful situations.
Ive been playing Quake 4 duels against former tournament players and other people with competetive backround on glass for about 800 hours, i play LG duels in Quake Live every now and then and enjoy playing Soldier in Overwatch, especially in 1v1 as well. I get bored and loose focus when not under constant threat of getting my shit kicked in :D
In overwhelming situations i often loose the ettiquette/ practices that i developed to offset glass downsides, which i take as a skill issue on my side that has to do with my reading ability going to shit when someone better than me really outplays me. I start flicking to adjust onto target and then need 100 or so ms to loose the tension again, but can't because im not 100% focused on reading the player and they wont slow down for me just because i got overwhelmed :)
I agree that how you play Quake pushes you to maximize uptime. In most games you have a bunch of variables that you can optimize to 80%, and then wont have to use aim as much to convert into a kill. Example see Donk barely moving his crosshair himself while being incredibly hard to hit, or any Quake Duel player who can keep up with someone like Tox and Serious in damage output, but not in aim.
At the moment i enjoy the aspect of optimizing aim and active damage uptime over optimizing everything else, which is why i play mostly aim duels. Talking about Aim trainers, i think they have their place but only to force extreme practice in reactivity and maybe for smoothness, but dont think they can do much more for you if the goal is to aim well in games as being able to read and keep up with players baits is like 90% of what matters. Preparation does the most for improving uptime on target imo and if you dont have a thinking person on the other end who actively bullshits you with flukes and baits you are not really forced to use aim enough to differentiate between "my mouse keeps me back" and "i dont understand this guy".
2 case inserts if you care for it after my wall of text :D :
1. Player whos name Im probably not supposed to say; not known for mouse aim, maximizes uptime through his exceptional pattern recognition and his methods of reacting to it for keyboard aim:
ruclips.net/video/4682BolQDck/видео.html
2. MadBadMan on RUclips who i take as one of the absolute strongest reactive aimers; speed and simultanious control and accuracy.
If we are talking about raw aim, MadBadMan gets the absolute victory every time, however in direct competition they have similar results iirc.
Final comment: In 2019 i bought the FK2 glossy white as my first mouse because of your reviews and work in educating on purpose and function of mice for usability in games. Served me well for a long time until the hyper optimized light weight wireless mice came out :) Thank your for that!
What quake server do you play I can never find a good small one I feel like they’re bots or there’s no one playing the smaller servers
Just Australian servers each night.
What's the major difference between E1 and Zygen NP-01S v2? I've just bought the E1 a few days before the announcement of this new Zygen and I'm kinda curious :O
Shape! Very different shapes.
@@RocketJumpNinja Damn. Guess I'm gonna have to buy this NP-01S v2 as well.
That blue colour looks AWESOME. but too bad its wayyyyy tooo exp
I'm using Vaxee XE and love it. They're making web based driver which is neat, 8k polling too. Now only eventually to see optical switches and lower weight always good with full shell.
As for glass pad, I wouldn't want heavier mouse for at all. To me regardless of pad, lighter always.
gOOD
They will probably update their old mice by popularity... NP-01 is last I believe
Good mouse, too bad its not available in SEA
Really wish it were shorter around 110-114mm in length
I kinda am digging this but I got you many mice lol
"no software" there's a web driver
every mouse looks like the zowie fk2 I swear
it looks hidious
I need someone to explain to me why weight is such a big thing for mice enthusiasts? I've NEVER found a mouse to be "too heavy" or tiring to use for tens of hours a day. To me it's all about shape.
It's not really about tiredness, lower weight helps you be more precise by requiring less force to move the mouse especially during a clutch when pixel-level micro-adjustments might be required. Lower weight gives you option to gently nudge the mouse to make those small movements happen. There's also the faster flick acceleration speed that comes with a lighter mouse.
All that being said, some people can't handle lighter mice because their aim becomes too shaky, I was in that group but eventually adjusted.
second
More control, feels more 1:1 with hand and sensor, constant fast swipes and flicks, go figure. Shape for sure.
160 euro for a mouse that's not any better than a would-be wireless viper mini. Yeah, no
Its actually 170 EUR if you add the shipping. Something is completely off with their prices... EGG 4K mice cost 120 EUR and you can even find them on local stores.
every other 160 euro mouse has quality issues. No brand other than Vaxee will guarnatee you the mouse will work after 2 months. I wasted 160 on Lamzu and it broke instantly