This old tech could cost automakers BILLIONS
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- The Center for Automotive Research says it would cost the industry $3.8 billion dollars to solve interference problems in EVs to put AM radio in new cars.
It's a wonder any EVs on the road today have AM radio tuners, then! But they don't seem to happy with new legislation, the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act. We dive into this spat between the radio industry, automotive manufacturers, and the US government.
Resources referenced in this video:
- CAR estimated $3.8 Billion cost: www.radioworld.com/news-and-b...
- AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act: www.congress.gov/bill/118th-c...
- Ars Technica coverage: arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/...
- CTA EAS Test Survey results: cdn.cta.tech/cta/media/media/...
- CTA's page against the AM radio mandate: www.cta.tech/Advocacy/Issues/...
- How the EAS Alert was Broadcast: • How the EAS alert was ...
The AM radio we're using in the video is the Sony ICF-506, in case you were wondering. If you want one, you can use our affiliate link to pick one up! amzn.to/3UPWGdz
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Contents:
00:00 - 3.8 billion dollars
01:30 - Asking a radio engineer
07:56 - AM interference (spurious emissions)
10:19 - What must be done? 
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EVs shouldn’t be allowed to freely generate massive interference. This is already law.
YES
They aren't allowed to, they have to meet the same emissions standards as everyone else. If they didn’t pass, they would not be allowed to be sold anywhere, USA, EU or UK, anywhere.
It just so happens that to be able to receive decent AM signal, you have to be quite a bit below those emissions standards.
So they are compliant with emissions standards but not receive standards for AM radio. So they just remove the AM radio function, it's way cheaper this way. No one wants an EV to be even more expensive.
Also worth noting this is really a USA problem - AM is nearly dead in the EU. Here, everyone uses FM or DAB. Or just streams it.
Poor snowfake
@@FluxLabsProjects even emergency use? AM has much longer range than FM, making it extremely useful for reaching people after natural disasters.
The FCC is useless.
10 to 15 years ago I bought a cigarette lighter cell phone charger at a local battery store. When I used it in my car, I found it created interference, a high-pitched whine, in my AM radio. When I went back to the store and complained, the owner's comment was, "Who even listens to AM radio anymore?" Well, obviously I do.
So, AM should've been possible from the outset of EVs but regulators didn't crack down on them? Why should the customer have to pay a cent to fix an issue that's been known for years and is only now being enforced?
That could be the case, though as we don't own any EVs currently, we can't confirm whether it's an existing issue. It seems like some carmakers have just dropped AM radio from models in the past, maybe because it was too hard to get interference to acceptable levels?
@@GeerlingEngineeringOK, fair.
@@GeerlingEngineering I tend to think it's more just that AM is considered obsolete and not worth supporting by the manufacturers, particularly if it needs to be a really selective high quality implementation to hear past the EMI soup.
@@treelineresearch3387Maybe but the soup still needs to fall within acceptable levels so as not to interfere with other people's devices. I don't have an EV to test either but I have been hearing complaints about the interference from Tesla's. I'm not suggesting they're the only EV causing issues but being the most popular brand they're the ones you hear about.
@@jmr Yeah I was just thinking about the near field/noise coupling problems of a radio installed in the car. Even assuming a far field EMI/RFI emission compliant vehicle AM might be be fairly difficult to integrate.
Back in the 1970s I used to monitor an IBM mainframe computer by listening to it's "broadcast" from the floor above it with an AM radio. When it went quiet the program I was running had finished (convenient remote monitoring)
That's engineer thinkin, right there.
I have done the "same thing" using cheap arse analogue cordless phone handset / base on servers handset in office - noisy computer is working - quite no compute happening anymore and the server needs checking in on
A lot of very early home computer hobbyists would make programs where the radio interference generated by the computer running the program was the intended output, it was an early form of digital synthesizer.
@@AlRoderick IBM 1401 for one.
ruclips.net/video/EPk8MVEmiTI/видео.html
I really wish I had kept the tape recordings i made of these in the 90s. You could almost imagine hearing what the computer was doing.
As a HAM radio operator myself, I believe we should absolutely protect and use the AM bands. I agree it’s critical for emergency communications. However, we should not be spending public money on this. It should be on the manufacturers to be compliant with existing regulations that stipulate they cannot interfere with licensed frequencies. Like anything else, if it’s not compliant with the laws then it shouldn’t be permitted for sale.
Not to mention the emergency back up communications radio amateurs (HAM's) perform in services such as the ARES - Amateur Radio Emergency Service. RACES (part of your county EOC maned by amateur volunteers). Army and Air Force Military Auxiliary Radio Service, also all radio amateur volunteers, all use radio spectrum the can be polluted by these EV's and make communications difficult to impossible.
Note that "ham radio" as a nickname for "amateur radio" is not an acronym, so the letters are not capitalized. I have no idea when people started doing this, but it's not correct, so as a licensed radio amateur myself, I try to set things straight whenever I see it. That all said, it's nice to see rekindled interest in the hobby.
@@GunnarMiller You are correct. I may be wrong but I believe the term ham is a shortened version of an old English word hamateur.
@@druliefw It's because it rhymes with "amateur", and in the early 20th century a "ham" was also an old-timey term for an untrained actor en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overacting .
"We shouldn't" is a moral imperative based on a personal opinion. AM radio is not emergency communication. It is broadcast monolog, Like all broadcast media, at best it can provide alerts and information, and at worst it provides opinion, misinformation and propaganda . The more infomation it provides, the larger the "audience" less trustworthy it is. Personally the only emergency communication that has ever directly benefited me was not while I was listening to radio. It was warning sirens that I heard while driving, sleeping or camping.
My EV, (Hyundai Ionic 2019) has an AM radio (in addition to FM / DAB+), and it has the best AM reception I have heard in a long time, both stationary and when driving.
Absolutely no interference issues at all.
It's entirely possible that conventional cars powered by combustion engines generate electrical noise that's harder to control or less regulated.
If the EV equipment is actually FCC compliant, AM and FM radio should work fine. And if there's a problem, all it should take is a little extra shielding to make up for the extra noise.
@@jnharton back in the day, it turned out that spark plug wires were causing interference. Replacing copper with fiberglass / carbon conductors fixed it.
I was literally going to post the exact same thing. My EV has AM and like you said its the best I probably have ever heard honestly.
@@russellstyles5381they still cause some interference !
I have two EVs, a Chevy bolt and a Tesla Model X. The Bolt has a great AM radio, the Tesla doesn't even have an option to listen to it. It seems more like a software development resource allocation decision by Tesla than an EMF issue.
I haven't attempted to listen to AM radio in my house, but when I tried to setup antennas in my attic, VHF kept driving me nuts climbing in and out of the attic readjusting, until I was just about fed up with working on it, and shutoff the 100W equivalent LEDs in my garage then miraculously it started working, the amount of electrical interference switch mode supplies are allowed to emit now is absolutely ridiculous how widespread this problem is and the FCC does nothing about it.
Chinese LED drivers are the worst.
@@volkhen0 yeah, the noise is insane.
@@volvo09 can it be limited by some metal mesh etc?
@@volkhen0 this is your problem, not SMPS circuits.
I had that issue, but it turned out that the wiring going to the Lightbulb socket was 50+ years old and was bare wire in the walls. Also, ground wasn't attached to ground.
It could be the lights, but it could also be the landlord special wiring in the house.
That seems like a great father-son relationship by the way. I also like that Dad Geerling still keeps multiple pens in his pocket.
His son doesn't seem to be into pocket tees.
Heh, he's a true engineer! I think he even has a pocket protector somewhere, not sure if he uses that often. But he is always good for a sharpie or pencil when you need it.
Perfect!
Well you gotta have a blue and a black at all times. Honestly if you're looking at prints in the shop without a red and a green then why did you get up this morning?
My “Analog and Digital Communication” professor said the difference between a analog and digital engineer. Is that the analog will build a transmitter on purpose.
Ah, that's it! I was trying to think of what exactly the joke was.
I have another one on the same idea. "What's the difference between an RF electronics engineer and a normal electronics engineer? The RF engineer knows they're building an antenna.". Came across this one when studying and learning how to improve my PCB EMI/EMC design approaches.
What I miss the most from AM radio is when I'm driving along a highway in WA and come across a sign which says "when the lights are flashing tune to AM 1610 for important information about conditions ahead.
Yes and many radios used to max out at 1510 wave frequency and not be able to tune...
FCC & CE regulation require compliance. What happened to the EV designers when they had that course?
Nothing . Emissions and interference have metrics and methodology. They are tested outside manufactured products, not inside them, and at specified distances.
@@psdaengr911 That suggests the vehicle is going to have a catastrophic failure and lose control - maybe leading to death and serious injury. Just imagine if the circuit radiates that level of interference, what happens when the open barn door lets in a signal from a mobile (or static) transmitter, or an e.m. pulse from a lightning strike?
compliance with what? The fact that they won't interfere with the functioning of other electronics? Or that interference won't cause their product to fail/malfunction in a harmful way i.e. their product has to tolerate interference from external sources?
@@killer2600 If non-compliant (EMC / FCC) emissions come from a "sophisticated" piece of electrical equipment - that can kill and maim (an automobile does that on a regular basis with just a faulty nut behind the wheel), then while it happily radiates all kinds of RF garbage, splattered over the radio spectrum, it suggests all kinds of RF garbage can return by the same route - leading the said "sophisticated" piece of electrical equipment, having a reprogramming by its back door that it deserves.
@@killer2600 Great question. Automotive standards CISPR 25, SAE J551-4 & SAE J1113-41 are there to ensure that EMI is low enough that onboard radio works.
People calling AM "pointless" definitely don't realize how vital it is in rural areas. I live deep in the Appalachian mountains and AM is the only reliable broadcast option due to its range. Forget getting TV reception via antenna here, nearly impossible.
how are you on youtube, if you don't have access to youtube?
No doubt that the AM hate radio and other religious broadcast programs come in loud and clear!
@@morthim I said broadcast, not internet smarty pants. My area only recently got fiber roll out.
Starlink exists @@morthim
good luck with trying to have a funny electric car there. this seem like insanity that they're pushing a single technology instead of having lots of different tools. why everything must be only electric now ? why can't we have both ICE and electric and use what makes more sense for where you are ?
We need to protect AM radio from interference of all kinds. This includes technology - electromagnetic interference - and monopolistic business practices - over consolidation and lack of local broadcasting.
My Ioniq 5 has AM and works fine.
Ditto. My 2nd gen Nissan Leaf has an AM radio. I don't really use it...but it's there.
As a Aussie AM has such important role with providing updates during bush fires , floods and cyclones . We are a big country and a small population and AM is the only reliable method to get emergency messages out which our ABC does a great job of.
It may work in Europe to shut down AM but it certainly doesn’t work here or in the US. Hopefully the US mandates AM which will trickle down for the Aussies.
I am firm believer or keeping AM radio in cars. With that said, there is another problem - syndicated radio stations that have no local announcers. Is the early 2000's I was driving from Boston to Northern NJ while a snow storm with predicted amounts of 9"~12" was bearing down on the area. NOT A SINGLE LOCAL AM OR FM STATION was broadcasting weather reports. Only Boston, and NYC stations were sending alerts however they were not providing information about the direction the storm was taking. I had about a half dozen routes to chose from, but no up-tp-date information that suggested the safest route to take. These syndicated radion stations (I'm not mentioning names) are useless for import5ant local news.
True! My Dad mentioned that when he was saying to the KMOX owners-if you don't have relevant local news and information, especially in breaking events like weather or local issues, what's the value of even owning the local station!?
You have a mistaken belief that radio stations exist to provide a public service . That's wrong. They exist to provide revenue to their owners. Advertising is the only source of revenue for radio stations. Most advertising is a national brands. A radio network can have local advertising without needing local on-air talent, but needs neither. Technically, every radio transmitter has a licensed power output which determines its radius of coverage. A cellular (network) transmission system uses less power to cover a larger area and has less audience degradation due to local service interruptions. Greater audience > more advertising revenue.
@@psdaengr911 No debate with what you said. I grew up on AM radio and lived in several small communities where there were local announcers and they provided local news and weather. It is a shame that the economics do not lend themselves to this type of service any longer, and it is also a shame that as many people no longer listen to the radio any longer.
@@psdaengr911The problem with that argument is that radio frequencies are a public good. We allow stations to transmit on those frequencies, but ultimately they are using a collective resource and the collective has its own unique rights to that resource. Roads are another collective good like that. Lots of companies use them to make money, some make money building the roads, but certain rights are reserved both for the collective and for the system itself.
As far as I know, every state does have a AM broadcast station for traffic information which also broadcasts weather related events. Boston is WBZ 1030, Monmouth is AM 1310, Ocean is 1160. Jersey .gov even has a list of all radio stations that have agreed to broadcast special announcements in the event that inclement weather causes other than normal operation.
Hi guys! Ham radio operator here! When it comes to emergency communications, low tech rules! AM covers more area than FM could dream of. Cell phones, as y'all point out are the first to go down... something we FINALLY got our law enforcement partners to understand. That was painful! We were doing drills where we were to shadow officers for comms and they didn't want us because they had their cell phone, not understanding that in a real emergency it's not likely to work at all. After a few real events where the system got saturated they finally got it.
I also liked your points about interference! You were right on point that manufacturers have been infringing. As hams, we're not allowed to interfere with anyone else, but everyone else can interfere with us. Solar is also a big interference origin point, as well as plasma TV's. Finding that stuff and fixing it is kind of an art form! Love your show!
I can tell you if there's an emergency going on and I want to hear active reports of the current situation, part of my procedure is to tune to the AM news station that covers practically all of Chicagoland, that being WBBM
SSB is king but it's relatively uncommon still. Although, it doesn't need to be. With ICs it doesn't need a fancy matched crystal filter anymore
@@user-vy1kz1co9p SSB is actually a form of AM using only one sideband and no carrier. As such it is subject to interference in the same manner.
In the Australian bushfires in 2019, several cell phone towers were destroyed along with power and telephone lines, leaving some towns totally isolated except for AM radio. FM has a limited and somewhat line of sight range compared to AM. At this time, there is nothing better than AM radio for reliably getting a message across to may people across 100's of km.
Also, no device (including EVs) should be generating interference. Those laws have been in place for a very long time.
The laws have been ignored even longer.😢
I'm not about to pick a fight with the statisticians at the CTA (notoriously tough eggs that they are), but I'm having a hard time believing that you can extrapolate data representative of 258 million US adults, from a survey of 800 of them.
first statistics professor I had explained sample sizes and said "you kinda just have to accept that its your best guess"
Never showed up again. Best decision ever.
An online survey, no less.
@@EarnestWilliamsGeofferic And when ~ 70% of online traffic is from the bottom ~30% of life function at that.
The sample has to be scientifically selected, which a haphazard method cannot do, but it's possible under that constraint.
A random sample of 1000 people is enough to accurately model the entire population. Having said that, an online survey is not random by any definition of the word.
The short sighted thinking that threatens AM is the same kind of thinking that eliminated the Office of Pandemic Response in 2019
There is a good video on the Autoline Daily channel where they interviewed an Electrical Engineer and she said that if they would just add some cheap shielding in the motors the AM radio would work no problem but it's because Mechanical Engineers and Electrical Engineers today aren't learning about shielding. Check it out on that channel.
Here in Northern California where wildfires and falling tree branches cause AC power failures, those in turn cause cell sites to fail. So, don't count on a cell phone to work in an emergency.
It does not take an EMP. 99.999% of cell sites have no backup power, so an AC grid failure takes them out. The sites that do have back up power may only work for 2 or 3 days. How do you charge a cell phone when your local AC grid is down?
@@Brooke95482how do you charge a cell phone without AC grid? solar or generators. also every cell tower around here has multiple days of backup power
Charging my phone during a power outage is easy. I have a battery based charger that can last me days of use. Keeping cell towers and internet infrastructure running without grid based power is the bigger issue.
@@Brooke95482 how bad is tha AC power in the US? Dont all americans have a car they can charge the phone in?
@@gtvgranberg There is a LOT of legacy systems place from the early days of electrifying homes and business, as well as a lot of area to cover. Additionally, the mishmash of jurisdictions across (and sometimes within) state borders makes it harder for things to catch on. For instance, the house I live in was built in 1992, and doesn't have neutral wire in light switch boxes. As I understand it, this is only recently required. (That said, the Technology Connections channel has a great video about common misconceptions of the North American power grid that explains some things much better than I could). As for charging a phone, that's a non-issue in emergencies, as cell towers are often inoperable or overloaded for as much as weeks, as with Hurricane Katrina.
EMC testing for EVs is a huge, huge topic. AM radio is only a tiny piece of the puzzle there, more important is coexistence of all the hundreds of different systems inside a car and between cars. Things like coupling between cables in a cable channel, for example.
There's still many open questions and standards that don't exist yet.
I think this problem is mostly solved in the aerospace industry, EMC is taken very seriously there. In the demo with the radio, it seemed to me like the radio had most interference when it was near a device with a switching converter, which would likely have a fundamental frequency or at the least harmonics in the AM band. The problem is likely worse for EVs which effectively need three phase switching converters for the drive train that operate in that same band. I think the FCC will need to take some notes from standards like mil-std 461 and do-160 to start enforcing some more stringent radiated emissions requirements on the auto industry. Controlling loop areas and return currents will become a lot more important with EVs to cut down on interference like this.
not quite the same but I am a heavy truck mechanic for a construction company and we had a NEW mack tractor everytime the driver would key the 2 way VHF radio the truck would shutdown and set about 500 error codes in almost every computer
turned out to be a ground issue on the cab to the frame where the batteries are installed and the VHF aerial was on the roof of the cab
It's a beautiful properly designed EVs, Korean and Chinese, have no problems with EMC, EMI at all.
@@collin5353 It's solved in automotive as well. FCC regulations apply to automotive.
The issue isn't external radiated emissions; you have to pass the FCC tests. The issue is internal to the vehicle, for both conducted and radiated. And yes, it's the switching converters of the drivetrain that make it difficult. These are very high power devices (way above the power of any AM station's transmitter in the U.S.), and most converters' harmonics stomp all over the AM band. When it's conducted that's giving you trouble, shielding does nothing. Inside the vehicle and connected to vehicle power sources, shielding generally isn't the answer.
A very long time ago, I worked on the on-board charger for the first generation Chevy Volt. GM didn't like that we passed the FCC requirements when the charger was active, but didn't pass GM's more stringent requirements (even when using spread-spectrum for the switching). For the on-board charger, they only came into play when the vehicle was parked and charging (the only time the on-board charger was active). The solution a few of us came up with (and filed a patent request for) was to have the radio send us the frequency it was tuned to (via CAN) and we'd adjust our switching frequency (in software) so that all of our harmonics were a reasonable distance away from the tuned AM frequency's sidebands. It can be tricky, since a typical design will lose efficiency outside of a fairly narrow switching frequency. Myself and a coworker implemented our idea in software. It worked, but AFAIK it was never used on the first generation Volt, probably in part because I warned the radio team at GM that it would complicate seek/scan on their side and they had to decide on a tradeoff: put a bunch of work into seek/scan to communicate with the charger, or just live with the fact that if the car was parked and charging, some AM stations would be problematic. To my knowledge they accepted the latter. Probably worth noting that the first generation Volt's schedule was compressed (it was during the bankruptcy, and government pressure was applied).
I don't doubt it would be costly to address in many vehicles now if they decided to not address it up front (during design and validation). Modern mass-manufactured vehicles are engineered by specialized teams spread across a slew of suppliers and the OEM, and the suppliers frequently don't talk to each other at all if they're in disparate disciplines (say the traction inverter supplier versus the infotainment supplier).
I've been an AM radio listener all my life. When weather warnings occur, I hear them first on AM radio (WBBM or WGN in my area), a few minutes later on my weather radio and much later, I get the alert on my cellphone.
Not to mention the Chicago stations have enough watts behind them that you can pull them in across the country for most of the area east of the Mississippi River. Road trips you could get those from up on the border with Canada or in the panhandle of Florida. Conversely, I could pull in WTAM from Cleveland in the Chicago area, and there is some station out of Philly that would come in on some nights too. Can't really get anything on FM over that kind of distance, it's definitely local on that band.
@@pauljs75 Right. There are a number of "clear channel" AM stations licensed to transmit at high power each therefore reliably reaching half or more of the lower 48 states. Emergency broadcast information technology is designed to use them.
I don't know anything about AM radio. However remember during hurricane Katrina and for about a week after the only way we could get any information was AM radio. We had no power and all the cell towers were deployed. A couple weeks after they used little blimps as cell towers, which I thought was pretty cool
AM radio has several advantages two important ones are:
1) It goes a long distance you can receive it for 100s of miles.
2) You can receive it on a home made crystal radio
@@kensmith5694 I mean, even if you can't make one yourself, AM radios are plainly dirt cheap.
@@chumanho If you have the radio and the means to power it reason #1 still matters a lot.
This is what a lot of the "ljust stream it" people dont realize. There are places which do not have cell coverage and in cases like a disaster cell towers go down or are overloaded
Good info and presentation.
As someone who has managed EMC test facilities, run hundreds of tests and spent many days dealing with FCC and other regulatory national authorities, I suspect that EVs do pass all of the relevant FCC requirements (FCC equivalents of IEC, ISO, CISPR, etc. standards). The interference you are discussing may be covered by regulations but is not fully addressed by the testing required by the Code Of Federal Regulations (CFRs). Note that there are applicable radiated and conducted emission standards, but that are not currently included in the regulations for automotive products. What is proposed is to add these requirements to the requirements to the sections of the CFRs.
What your discussion alludes to but does not clearly address is the effective broadcast range of AM vs the other communication systems. I have friends who live in areas where zero FM broadcasts can be received, cell reception is spotty at best and so rely of AM and NWS (also spotty at times) broadcasts for emergency and hazard warnings. Almost all of these people have AM / NWS radios install and on in the homes, vehicles and tractors. Also many of the detractors of these regulations are also affiliated with those who would just like to see AM die.
Your testing with a an AM radio does demonstrate the problem, but the problem of growing EMC "clutter"and not just limited to AM bands. I have also observed interference with NWS frequency transmissions (162.4 - 162.55 MHz) and other bands caused by "conducted / power supply" noise when trying to install a transceiver in an EV. A problem seen by many Hams when installing radios in vehicles festooned with various computer modules often requiring additional filtering on the 12VDC and better "grounding or isolation" of the radio. Note: We are also dealing with similar problems with installations on boats, tractors, etc.
For chasing EMI I carry a tinySA®Ultra and various antennas in my tool bag. Not as sensitive, fast or flexible as the portable HP spectrum analyzer I use to run but still provides adequate functionality, better than an AM/FM/NWT radio and fits in ones pocket.
Great info. Thanks!
I just got a brand new Subaru Crosstrek and I am extremely impressed with it's AM tuner. It's super sensitive and has got to be doing some DSP magic to produce the clearest AM sound from faraway stations I've ever heard. Happily surprised to see they didn't skimp out on the radio tuner even in the fancy new giant touchscreen head unit Subaru now has in all their cars.
AM reception is essential to national security. There’s a reason it’s the only working broadcast technology in the Fallout franchise.
As a ham radio operator who has had to deal with electromagnetic interference from electric livestock fences, plasma TVs, a plethora of wall warts, LED lighting, corroded power line connections, personal computers, vehicle ignition systems, vehicle fuel pumps, garage door openers, and many other devices, it concerns me that the FCC seems ill-prepared and disinclined to address these many EMI sources. There are rules on the books about EMI, but the FCC isn't enforcing them.
I have no sympathy for the EV manufacturers. It's on them to follow the EMI rules and provide usable AM radios in their vehicles.
As for the viability of AM broadcasting, an AM signal can get the word out over hundreds of square miles. Doing the same would require dozens of FM stations and hundreds of cell towers.
In Europe AM is almost not accepted in cities due to huge interference especially from cheap Chinese chargers, LED lamps and other electronics and our FCC does not have enough funding to solve the problem so even HAM lovers suffer a lot.
In recent years, the FCC has been more concerned with selling blocks of frequencies, rather than the enforcement that they are responsible for.
yeah i feel yah fellow ham lover, My parents house is so badly affected by crappy electrics they cant watch digital tv, the old man refuses to get an antenna tech in to troubleshoot and fix the problem, he just keeps blaming the ham nearby. I figured it out, its soemthing that they use everynight around the time they eatch some program. lol but no, its the ham guy lol 😆
I remember when my past phones had FM radio. It was slowly phased out of most phones. The thing is, most manufactured phones still have them built in. Manufactures just decide not to enable the feature because the “antenna hole” is now gone.
HI , As a Radio Ham in UK,I have been concerned about the EV car interferance issues for sometime, the Car charger invertors work between 180-300khz ,while being charged the house wiring radiates this interferance ,the owner 300ft from my home is no longer able to listen to AM stns or BBC 198khz (1.5megawatts )( to be shutdown when the last tube expires ,this was a major part of Public Emergancy Broadcast set up in uk in 1990s..
The answer he got from the authorities was "dont charge your EV when listening to AM Radio" Guess that would be the same if driving , ie pullover in a safe place to use AM radio if installed !
Mostly he uses DAB and FM when driving no LW fitted
Beat up, AM works perfectly in the vast majority of EVs
Here in Europe, while AM hase been dead for decades, DAB+ is mandatory for new cars... FM is still alive with no imminent end in sight.
As a fellow amateur radio operator in Canada, with a interest in disaster response, I quite agree with your dad. He gave an excellent demonstration of various problems of interference. And yes, the EV cars need to be cleaned up and should’ve been designed in the first place. Idiots.
Around 8 years ago I started designing my nixie clock and I ended up spending countless hours figuring out the filter because I knew that my clock could end up sitting next to an AM radio.
FM is poor in rural areas.
Rural QLD down under here, we're AM only, there are some FM stations in the regional towns but their coverage is poor.
Is it as bad as broadband access? We (taxpayers) keep giving ISPs $gazillions to fix that, but they don't because they're all lying, thieving, greedy scumbags.
@@StubbyPhillipsI got tired of waiting for ISP and got SpaceX Starlink, just at the end of the beta phase. It's been fantastic!
@@gus473 $
@@gus473 Expen$ive.
Them saying they would need to pay billions to put AM radio in their cars just proves they werent making them properly to begin with!
If it wasnt an issue then they could just shove it in.
Mass-produced AM receiver chips cost about $1 each and have been part of every radio made for 50+ years. Their logic makes no sense.
@@forkliftofzen5318 $50-80 figure would be all the isolation from all the interference from the car. AM notoriously hates interference of any kind so it's not easy to keep it down, especially with a car that creates gobs of it.
@@JessicaFEREM It's illegal for them to produce a device that interferes anyway 😂
@@porcupinepunch6893 It's only illegal when they enforce the laws of which seems to not be a thing in the US anymore.
that seems like bullshit, they are projecting billions of sales of electric cars and they can't spend $10 extra to fix the darned problem
My work commute is 42 miles. FM stations don’t cover it. And there are several dead zones for cell phones. AM is the only consistent communication. Works fine in my Honda CRV hybrid.
I'm sorry to hear your phone has no storage 😔🙏
@@benkahn5063 I do not see what phone storage has to do with this. In an emergency you don't need to listen to a tune or book in storage. You need current accurate information.
I have a 2013 Ford Fusion plug in hybrid. The AM radio works just fine in EV mode.
Ditto on my 2012 Volt. Even had a 30GB hard drive to pause live radio. I miss that car.
The interference is localized that is how the EV's that do not support AM get around that they only need to shield outside the car from the interference.
Remember when VW said its diesel cars met pollution standards?
As someone who lives on the West coast of Canada, there are plenty of locations where cell coverage is non-existant and locals become dependent on radio transmissions (FM & AM). Not to mention that the coast guard provides an automated AM based weather & waves conditions service that is always available. I don't see AM going anywhere anytime soon and I think having redundancy, especially in emergencies, is critical.
We have the same radio interference problems in the UK. I think there are way too many badly made products and not enough if any checks in place. Offcom is our FCC and no longer has sufficient funds to do this job properly it seems. As a radio ham I find this annoying and a bit sad that this has been allowed to get so bad.
This is regulated already by the FCC, the problem is enforcement.
My Bolt EUV has an AM radio still and last I tried it was able to pick up some of the local stations here in Northeast GA. It's kind of my "if SHTF" and knocks out cell service and other internet features then I want to be able to run out to my car and tune into an AM station since you can be sure that they will be broadcasting vital information if they were able to stay up. Obviously my ICE car could do the same but my EV is still my fallback given I can charge it with solar if gas became unavailable.
I would rather have an AM radio than an EV.
So there you have it EV designers, just buy a cheap AM Radio, and use it as a "Scan Tool' to determine where the interference is coming from in your EV... AND FIX IT!!!!🤣
I think it is harder to suppress standard ignition coil electrical noise from an ICE, than an EV switching / motor noise. Yet they've been putting AM radios in cars since early 1930s
Very good points brought up!
Today (Thu 5/9/2024) here in St. Louis, on KSDK-TV news, they had a story about some people in the area who did not get the severe weather and tornado warning alerts on their cellular phones. During the story they couldn't provide a specific cause, but interviewed one woman who had the issue. I myself can think of several potential reasons, but without a more detailed investigation I won't pick any one in particular.
Seeing that story tonight, I feel obligated to mention it here. The need for reliable alerts is important.
I totally agree with all three "Joes", the situation needs to be addressed to take in all factors, not just what's convenient for EV manufacturers.
This will only get worse if we as a species continue down the path of digitising everything, and even making everything reliant on copper wires, optic fibre, and mobile reception/cell service.
Who's to say that one day an F5 tornado or a Category 5 hurricane will hit and not a single soul will have received a single warning because all the warnings and alerts are supposed to be received via SMS or some app or something, but bugs in the system prevented the word from getting out?
And especially when we're talking about natural disasters which affect areas spreading hundreds of miles... Digital TV and digital radio, alongside the SMS and apps, are less of a guarantee to be useful than AM radio.
AM radio must be protected by law.
Interesting how the FCC cracked down on 80s computer manufacturers for this but EVs can be rolling radio jammers all willy-nilly. Two critical points to remember. AM radio is FREE for all to receive (long gone are the days where you need to purchase a "license" to use a receiver, at least in civilized countries.) Cellphones are a long chain of complex systems, all links that can be broken, and requiring monthly fees. Secondly a clever man could build an AM radio from scratch in a widespread emergency (think crystal radios!) Nobody will be building a cellphone and a cell tower from scratch. Crystal AM radios don't even need a battery.
This is a beat up, my EV has an excellent AM radio, no interference at all.
Even if i dont use AM that much, its a very important standard! I dont want people who rely on AM to go without.
100%. Unfortunately there are those that think, "It's not a problem of society if it doesn't affect me." . It's really easy for folks to remember or understand why something is important.
@@azmi3333 There are still people who rely on dial up. always important to have a data-reduced version of your website and keep it as quick as possible.
it's a win-win, people with fast internet get your website very quickly, and it doesn't take an hour to load your page on dial up.
It's not just about EMS, but the FCC/Feds have sold expensive AM licenses. All EMI is regulated, though not effectively enforced. However, interfering with sold frequencies must be limited.
Last hurricane that hit the Florida Keys wiped out all internet and cell service. The only source for information was our main Radio station and some landline phones. While it was FM the fact remains that it stayed up and and helped a community work together. People in need were able to get the message out to the people who could help. And when the power is out for weeks a car, ICE or EV, may be the only powered radio accessable.
When something happens while I'm out and about, I immediately turn the radio on and tune to a news/talk station. Oh, and by the way there is only one in this area and it's AM, nothing on FM!
We have a similar entity to the FCC here in Switzerland, BAKOM. They do and did stop the sale of products who negatively impact the EM-spectrum.
But you don't have AM radio in Switzerland anymore, do you?
@@Rob2 We basically don’t have AM anymore, has been like that for decades i guess. But besides shortwave-FM we do more and more DAB+.
That's typical Swiss law enforcement....
You speed over certain velocity and go to jail....
Want to use a radio equipment ? Ask BAKOM first, not later....
@@jplacido9999 Um, the allowed frequencies are in harmony with the whole of EU and don’t differ that much. Also the rules around usage are basically the same for Europe. So no, that’s not a „swiss“ thing, it’s pretty much universal here.
@@Galileocrafter
Not really.
In Europe you get all kind of pirates (HF, CB, pmr446, etc) using Baofengs and the likes, no rules, everyone chooses its own frequency, and nothing happens (except if you mess with Military, Police or Emergency).
Try that at Switzerland and see what happens....🙈.
If you want to use even a POC radio, you submit that question to BAKOM and wait months for the unswer (or you can even go to jail)
Here in the UK I remember that my Scalextric slot racing car system in the 1960's had to have a capacitor across each 12 volt motor to prevent radio interference. Something to do with licencing somehow. It's surprising also that in the UK the BBC is ceasing long wave broadcasting on 1500metres [Long Wave], the band originally used for Armageddon announcements. They will use text messages! that'll work especially when our main telephony provider wants to cease direct wire and effectively use VOIP.
The POWER company here decided to put digital information on the power lines to control substations. End result? A 50kw AM station is drowned in a droning noise any time you are near lines carrying the data. Duke Power is HAPPY to cause the radio stations problems....Throw in the noise caused by automotive sources. Listening to an AM station from Fayetteville NC here outside Benson, I hear the LEDs strobing for turn signals and brakes. ALL cars need to have that fixed. It was NOT a problem until recently...
Everyone should keep an emergency hot dog in their glove box.
Norway shut down am/fm in 2017. Sadly they chose the outdated back in the 80s DAB technology to replace it.
Most of the western Europe AM is shut off by now ...
Some lokal radios still transmitt in FM / UKW. Personal I think it was bad they shut down most FM, because for safety and GARMIN-FM recievers for traffic-messages ..... not all car have DAB+ ... my KIA Sportage 2015 did not ... but my 2019 KONA has ;) But AM ...... thats really old fashon - only tried with my DIODE-powerless radio in 1980's ;)
За съжаление повечето от AM предавателите в Европа бяха затворени в някои страни поради екологични причини, защото AM консумира повече излишна електроенергия, а в други страни това се дължи на липса на слушатели и разходите за поддръжка на AM бяха доста солени поради увеличения цените на електроенергията това доказа особено влиянието на малките страни с ниски стандарти и затова те бяха спрени, но в някои страни все още има по една или две AM станции. Живея в Южна Европа и тук все още има две AM станции, едната е държавата, другата е частен, но скоро частният ще затвори поради малък брой слушатели, ефирът също е много мръсен и слушането на AM в голям град е почти невъзможно, разпоредбите на Европейската FCC не се спазват поради навлизането на масови евтина китайска технология, особено зарядни за телефони и LED лампи, а нашата FCC няма бюджет да преследва нарушителите и в Европа никога не е имало аварийна AM система, така че това беше още един аргумент в полза на затварянето им, преди години ЕС обмисляше инвестиция в цифровизация на AM, тъй като някои европейски станции преминаха към DRM, но това се оказа доста лоша услуга за аналоговия AM и програмата беше затворена, така че за съжаление AM е в застой тук и няма добро бъдеще.
DAB+ is far more robust than it gets given credit for, especially with lots of multipath.
FM is terrible with multipath, while DAB+ is designed to handle it fine within some limits. Here in Croatia there's one beach town 70 km away in a valley and it has poor FM reception from the main transmitter (Učka) in the region, with some Italian stations from Abruzzo having better quality audio when tropo kicks in. But DAB+ works excellent with a telescopic antenna outside, even Slovenian DAB+ from Nanos that is 40x less powerful! That's with the cheapest and crappiest DAB+ radio on the market. If a better radio was used with a low noise amplifier it would've been even better.
The thing is, that town is surrounded by hills that cause multipath reception, and DAB+ really helps out. If they used the same powers as FM, it would've been even better. DRM+ could also be very promising, as it is slightly more robust than DAB+ (can use QPSK instead of DQPSK and also use the superior xHE-AAC codec) modulation wise and can use the same antenna systems as plain old FM.
But won't digital just go out completely? At least analog gets fuzzy but still understandable; digital is either on or out isn't it? That seems like a bad idea for a foundation. I mean sure, the audio quality is awful etc on am and even fm compared to digital when you have a choice on what to listen to, but it seems like having and maintaining a national investment in a radio network that is "old school" makes a lot of sense - especially in a country like the US.
Interesting to watch this as a British person where stations are quickly turning off AM even breaking their licence agreements because the fines are cheaper than broadcasting on AM. Even in the middle of nowhere we now hear very little on AM (MW &LW) from either the UK or mainland Europe.
It is important to understand that there is a huge difference between something that complies at 10 meters (30 feet), and something that complies at 6 inches. The standards require 10 meters.
Toyota hybrids don't cause what I consider significant levels of AM interference. The 05 Prius we owned generated a slight amount of noise from the rectifier (or whatever they used to get the AC from the motor / generator to the battery) but my 17 Rav4 hybrid doesn't have this issue.
Probably a Tesla issue.
Recent models of Toyota Prius don’t support the use of ham radio due to AM interference.
Elon likely wants to introduce some proprietary infotainment system powered by starlink.
2019 Ioniq electric has AM and works just fine
I drive a 2007 Prius, and listen to AM everyday, and don't have any issues.
AM is also more than just the broadcast band. I'm a search and rescue volunteer that specializes in looking for missing aircraft, and the aircraft radios also use AM. I've seen many devices interfere with aircraft band handheld radios, such as wireless chargers.
The aviation AM mode is indeed AM but a very different band than AM broadcast.
Reminds me of being a kid in my Dads car with the footy on AM driving under tram tracks in Melbourne. The overhead wires cause havoc with AM still to this day!
We have AM in our '23 Bolt EUV. We needed to use it on the Mackinac Bridge for bridge conditions. No problems.
0:57 : Actually, everyone with a cell phone in this frame likely has an FM radio with them, but doesn't realize it. For over a decade now, all non-Apple smartphone chipsets have had an integrated FM radio tuner that outputs audio straight through the audio output lines, because this is considered a major feature in some countries (the antenna is provided by the wire in your headphones). However, in the US the manufacturers almost never talked about it, because they were trying to push their custom services to try to get people to burn through more minutes, thereby incurring overage fees.
I think there is an Android app that enables the built-in FM tuner on the chipset for those android phones that has no FM tuner app or has been disabled by default. But seems my Google pixel 3xl doesn't have any.
@@SlinkyStoneyNextRadio? I think that was abandoned a long time ago. I remember trying to use it on my s7 edge but its not compatible with my hardware.
... or so it says. I'm pretty sure it was compatible with my snapdragon chipset at the time, it was just disabled by default. You can't enable it too unless maybe by rooting it.
Many new smartphones only have support for wireless headphones. So you can't plug something in to receive radio signals. Or it must be done by a separate (usb) device.
@@SPeeSimon Even before they remove 3.5mm jack you still need to plug in headphone that acts as antenna to receive radio signal.
However, there are modern smartphone that has built in radio antenna on the phone. Xiaomi and a few other chinese manufacturers use them on budget, midrange and (probably) even flagship lineup. You can just open up the radio app and use the radio without any wire.
So, it's not exactly impossible (for FM, no idea about AM) to implement but I doubt companies would bring back these 'unnecessary' and 'ancient' technology.
Older apple phones will do this too
That's true that AM radio is being blocked and fcc rules state that you can not block any rf signals for any reason! So all these devices are failing and the FCC is losing control.
It is not illegal to block RF signals! it is illegal to interfere with RF signals that are of any communications!
FCC is a joke, they quit enforcing interference complaints years ago...
You are wrong because you are literally unreasonable. FCC rules have reasons and limits.
@@AdamDeal-KF0PRI You are mistaken. Not all RFcommunication devices are licensed. Licensed devices and services can interfere with unlicensed devices, eg Wi-Fi, Bluetooth , cordless phones, baby monitors, etc.
I have a clock in my living room that automatically adjusts and updates the time from the government's atomic clock in Fort Collins, CO, using a signal in the longwave band, just below the standard AM broadcast band. The updates almost never work unless I bring it upstairs and hang it near the ceiling. But once, when it was due a DST update and hadn't gotten it, the power went out and all of my and my neighbor's digital junk shut down, but the clock was still running on battery back up; it got the update in a few minutes.
I wish I could have such a casual and intellectual conversation with my parents. This was both extremely informative and heartwarming. Your dad is a cool dude.
4:00 another good point, out in the wilderness on hiking trails or out camping in one of the national parks. AM might be your only way to receive EAS.
ALSO the majority of traffic alert systems use AM, i used these all the time as a trucker.
Also when out in the wild, the only weather report you can get may be on AM.
But if you are in the wilderness, what would be an emergency that you want to know NOW? That would only be weather related. And even then you could see the same when looking at the sky.
@@SPeeSimon You can't forecast tomorrows weather looking at the sky. Nearly every year some fool dies from thinking they can.
@@SPeeSimon Looking at the sky doesnt give you a lot of warning and based on commenets I see on social media people cant read the sky anyway.
YOU and your Dad are a GR8 pair ...very knowledgeable and easy to understand. There's hope for AM radio and the new MA3 digital process. YUP fixing the noise from inverters and pulse width control of motors and a zillion computers with birdies everywhere
MA3! You are paying attention to AM! The small stations can’t imagine paying the cost to convert right now though. The multi tower arrays have to be tuned correctly and there is hardware and licensing. But it is an interesting option I would love to try at one of our AMs. Thanks for the comment!
There was a station in mass. 650 AM broadcasting AM-3. (Jazz format) but its been on and off the air recently. Sounded good for something like ( i think was) only 12kb/s. Some compression heard at times but pretty impressive audio for such a low data rate.
I agree with your Dad. It is the vehicle manufacturers’ responsibility to build products that don’t spew radio interference.
Hello Jeff. I haven't commented before but I just wanted to let you know I love your content. The way you present topics and your upbeat personality, not to mention the inclusion of your father in episodes like this. Well Bravo !
I hope you've been feeling well and it's great to see the shop coming together.
There is 3 EV's in my local area. I can tell when they are charging or on the move. My HF radio 75/80 meters is wiped out. 10 meters is affected also.
i believe radio (AM/FM) has a place, even for us addicted to our cell phones and internet connectivity. What happens during a local disaster that affects cell phone service or internet? If people thought ahead, they have an AM/FM radio in their house / work they can tune in to get information. Otherwise, they can just go to their car, which has always had an AM/FM radio. The car provides shelter and a quiet place to be able to listen to the information people need in a disaster scenario. This is especially important for people who arent near their home or place of work, but are with their car. Go another step into amateur radio and everything gets real exciting. I think we should keep AM/FM stations on the air and keep radios in cars. Also - buy a radio with weather (WX) functionality for your house.
Definitely make sure you have a weather radio in the house, and test it to make sure it's working!
The day we recorded this video, we were woken up at 4:30 am for a tornado warning, because we had the weather radio. Luckily the tornado activity stayed out west, but we were aware and could've run to the basement when radar looked worse.
We should add fm radio back to smartphones since they are hardware capable but was disabled via software.
@@GeerlingEngineering and the day this video seems to have uploaded (notifications are not reliable, hahah), my hometown county declared a state of emergency due to storm damages even without any tornadoes (at least as far as noted in the news report I read). AM has always been my go-to in bad weather, and kept me out of trouble for certain at least once, likely more.
@@user-28qhfk65 They were disabled because at least some bands needed an external antenna that was made by the cable of your headphones. You might have noticed nobody's selling smartphones with headphone jacks any more. So saying they'er capable is a bit of a misnomer. Not to mention that outside of the US Radio is nowhere near as important.
@@user-28qhfk65 dead once the phone makers removed the headphone jack as that was the antenna
In Melbourne the trams cause all sorts of issues with AM radio too.
You can tell when they're coming by listening to a station like 3AW and hearing the noise get worse.
Save AM. Critical and proven technology that simply works !
Meanwhile in Norway they turned off the FM broadcast in 2017 and transitioned to DAB+
The radio experience has become completely different with much better sound quality and we have a huge amount of different channels to choose from.
DAB sucks due to its low bit rate. A strong analog FM signal sounds way better.
@@christianelzey9703 On paper yes, in reality no. I listen to DAB+ every day and the quality consistency is much better overall than FM.
@@christianelzey9703 On paper yes, in real life no. After using both FM and DAB+ for several years and comparing them DAB+ is much better. Same good quality everywhere as long as you have a signal. I get that there is pros and cons for both technologies but if I were to choose I would have chosen DAB+ At the same time you can ask the question why the frequency range are not used for a high coverage low frequency 5G band instead. So people can use internet radio and have basic cell service everywhere
@@christianelzey9703 On paper yes, in real life no. After using both FM and DAB+ for several years and comparing them DAB+ is much better. Same good quality everywhere as long as you have a signal.
@@christianelzey9703 On paper yes, in real life no. After using both FM and DAB+ for several years and comparing them DAB+ is much better.
Road trips and driving late at night listening to AM music.
Some distant baseball games thrown in.
You always knew if somebody somewhere was having a thunderstorm.
Later, Art Bell would keep me up to date on the latest alien abduction.
Content today?
Loved Art Bell. Miss him.
Driving at night through western Kansas/eastern Colorado AM is the way to detect thunderstorms that are over the horizon.
The fact that the auto industry has been making dirty electronics says something in itself. There are several cars out now saying you can't have 2 way radio installed in them.
Cars these days are getting more fragile.
The same people who are effected by having a electric car also have a cell phone and don't listen to the AM radio. The over lap between electric car drivers and AM radio listeners has got to be almost non-existent. Hell 90 percent of AM radio is conservative talk radio and those people are more likely to be coal rolling than driving an electric car.
"when your in your car, you can't be scrolling through RUclips" I have a feeling a lot of ppl do .... I'll listen to a RUclips thing like LTT WAN show or something like that. I won't watch vid while driving, but today's kids, I have a big feeling they do.
AT&T had that 'It Can Wait' campaign against texting while driving... nobody seems to have a 'stop doomscrolling while driving' campaign though!
@@GeerlingEngineering In some Spanish cities they have introduced AI-powered cameras to report people using the phone while driving. Here this is the major source of accidents in urban areas.
There aren't many now, but we expect they install them a lot more if they work well.
@@ClockDev That's a scary thought. I lived near a city that had traffic cameras of various types, and the false positive rate was absurdly high (not to mention scummy behavior by the company providing the service).
Tacking "AI" on top doesn't make things better. In fact, it could easily make things worse, as far as false positives go.
So if the manufacturing ignored rules on radio interference, what other items were missed? CB radio? NOAA weather stations, several states have am driver alerts on road conditions.
I don't think you understand what rules they ignored. You can't have an AM radio work in Tesla, you can have one work a few meters from one. Those cars will not actually stop you from receiving any radio transmission while your in your home, be they CB or anything else. Thing is, AM is dying or already dead outside the US. From a global perspective it makes very little sense to add an AM radio transmitter to any car not specifically made for the US, Australia and maybe a few countries were AM is still in heavy use. And if you aren't designing with AM in mind, why bother shielding to the extend a radio could work in a car? The fact that that isn't the case in the US and that cars with incorrect amounts of shielding for their electronic components have been released is a problem with your regulators. Those cars should have been tested before they were given the green light to be sold in the US.
Sad that in the UK that even FM is due to be taken down because everyone has been convinced that "modernizing" infrastructure means getting rid of everything analog or mechanical.
Please elaborate with citations. Thank you.
@@jimbryce6982 the BBC were going to turn off FM broadcasts a couple of years ago but cancelled their plans due to its popularity among the elderly now it has been pushed back to 2030, presumably because they are waiting for those people to die! The decline is self-perpetuating too.
But yes, modernization is given as a reason regularly. The BBC even cited it when they switched their digital streams to a much more closed down system that is difficult to access on most third party software and some hardware.
@@itsPenguinBoy So technology that can operate stand alone like individual radio transmitters and receivers is being phased out for technology that by design and necessity is totally dependent on complex interconnections with thousands of other equally complex devices. What could possibly go wrong? Oh, to name a few: massive solar CMEs destroying much of the infrastructure required, or the destruction of solid state electronics by EMP from human created weapons, or dramatic steep inflection in the speed of climate change such as we are already observing with floods, freezes, winds ripping out that infrastructure. Preserving stand alone communication equipment that is robust enough to survive such literal shocks is mandatory. This means shielding, grounding, and hollow state technology (valves, vacuum tubes) must be preserved and ready in the more likely than we want to admit event of such cataclysmic future. It also means training, educating, and employing people who understand such technologies and manufacturing and maintaining those "obsolete" technologies far into the future.
So cool to have your dad there to answer questions about these topics. ❤
There’s a reason your emergency shelter in your house is supposed to have a radio
and for many people they dont have an "emergency shelter" as they are not in a "disaster area" but most people OWN cars and are likely in it and evacuating during a disaster and having a RADIO to tune in one of the MOST RELIABLE sources for information is a LIFE SAVER
Amateur (ham) radio is considered by FEMA and other government agencies, including the military, to be the backbone of emergency communications. The motto in ham radio is, "when all else fails…" There are about 750,000 ham radio operators in the United States, yet we have led the fight against interference from many sources. We battled the power industry over them using data over power lines and won major restrictions against power companies.
You said that you didn't know of any major action taken by the FCC. Well, here is one. Home Depot faced million-dollar fines overselling cheap LED light fixtures which created broadband interference and they had to remove and recall large numbers of those lights.
Thanks for sharing the example. I hope they see this.
My local Lowe's has never complied with anything the FCC does
@@kenenglish124 What hasn't Lowe's complied with? I'm not aware of Lowe's being ordered to do anything by the FCC.
This is something I didn't know. Nobody has ever mentioned it , not even at work.
My Chrysler Pacifica Plugin Hybrid has an AM radio and it works fine. The vehicle operates as an EV when the battery is charged (gas engine is off) and I don't have any hash interference from the inverter. I rarely use the radio for AM or FM, instead opting to stream content from my phone to the radio via Bluetooth and Android auto. I'm no spring chicken either, having grown up before FM radio was available in cars.
But you probably had to pay like $5 extra for the smarter engineers who could design the car's inverters to not output spurious emissions! :)
@@GeerlingEngineering Chrysler (I retired from there 16 years ago) has a fantastic EMC test facility at the Tech Center in Auburn Hills Mi. It's an RF anechoic chamber that can blast RF from DC to daylight at various electronic modules and systems as well as measure emissions from those devices. All those computers under the hood need to be protected from outside sources of RFI and EMI or undesired events can occur.
Back in the early 80s when some vehicle functions became computerized, it was discovered during road testing that the vehicle would shutdown when driving past the VOA antenna farm in Ohio. Picture 5 cars in a test caravan becoming disabled one by one as they drove past those antennas. That could be duplicated when police and amateur radio transmitters were operated in the vehicle as well. Since then, a lot of effort has gone into hardening the many electronic systems in today's vehicles.
In the case of AM radio in the vehicle, manufacturers would love to save the cost of the AM section of a radio and antenna because they believe it's not a feature most people use today. Not many vehicles have CD players and certainly not cassette tape decks because their "data" indicated that bluetooth or usb sticks with 100s of songs were preferred.
5:02 Since in most states you can't handle your cellphone in your car, at least legally, you really DO need an AM radio. Nothing can beat AM range at night and since AM favors voice, it's a go-to for up-to-the-minute news. Even with tornado warnings and the like, FM rarely breaks format. Most markets have at least one AM "breaking news" station and for night time, there's always the clear channel stations for major regional events. AM is currently the lowest common denominator and that's where we need to draw the line.
Here in Las Vegas, even at night there aren't any real clear channels from far away places. A bit of signal makes it in from Los Angeles. This is using a 1970's portable wide band AM radio.
In Europe AM is almost not accepted in cities due to huge interference especially from cheap Chinese chargers, LED lamps and other electronics and our FCC does not have enough funding to solve the problem so even HAM lovers suffer a lot.
AM is short for American Modulation. It's much better than Foreign Modulation (FM).
You stand corrected, it's actually Antique Modulation against Fine Modulation ...
It’s not Argh Modulation and Fudge Modulation? 🏴☠️🍫
In Military terms, AM = Advanced Magic, FM = Friggin' Magic.
I'll be cold in the ground before I give up on AM radio.
Back in the day of TRS-80 computer, tuning an AM radio to certain frequencies would play blips and bloops from the computer. This was used to add sound to computer games.
The big question I have then, is what is Toyota doing right? I have access to Prius/Aurix. And north american AM band is solid and perfectly clean in those cars. They have both an engine and two motors, inverters, chargers.
I feel like this problem was already solved
possible that unlike Tesla, Toyota actually knows how to build a car right the first time.
Only relevant for US then, there is no AM radio in Europe as far as I know. 😁
In the UK the BBC still use AM.
Yup, never used AM. We currently have one AM station operational but that is not official and I think that it only broadcasts specific programs like 20 days a year.
AFAIK the Netherlands indeed stopped public AM broadcasts (there are still a few non-public channels). Not sure about the other countries. But I hear very few channels between .5 and 2 MHz at night, so I guess a large part of NW Europe has gone 'dark' in that respect.
as an SW (and LW/MW) listener from germany, i can say that it is in fact not dead. while there are no stations in germany, many european countries like france, spain, the uk and many more (especially in eastern europe) still transmit AM radio (and the digital pendant, DRM) and with such a power that the band is overfilled at night. especially from the british, they often have multiple transmitters on the same frequency which is quite annoying, since they are just milliseconds apart. some even operate in german, even though we don't officially have true german AM radio stations anymore. both north and south korea have german radio, which you can quite clearly receive at night even though their transmitter are in their own country respectively.
You have shortwave AM to protect over there.
Once upon a time, the leading automotive companies were leaders in minimising electromagnetic interfernce, applying internal standards far stricter than mandated standards
With the rise of Telsa and the like that are more tech start up, that has shifted.
It is also possible that the cars meet all applicable FCC emissions standards but intenrally still interfer and prevent someone in the car using AM by the nature of a car and how close togrther everything is.
My area got hit by a category 5 hurricane a few years back. The entire regional power grid was destroyed (no power for 15 days), all of the in range FM stations were gone, and all of the cell towers were gone.
A battery powered AM radio and my HAM was the only communication we had to get updates around us when we were home.
I would drive out every other day to fill up gas cans 2 hours away to keep the generator running.
The auto manufacturers should have designed their systems to not interfere. Poor design on their part.
8 people out of 800 said they used AM radio? That actually seems too high. AM is a great technology but I think it would be cheaper to provide citizens a portable radio in a home/car than to make vehicles support relatively unused radio bands.
Maybe that could be the compliance tool-if you can't provide a good AM radio built into the car, you have to provide a portable battery-powered radio/flashlight tool... could be a feature, like the pop-out rechargeable flashlight on a Rivian!
Even with that solution - which by the way is not a bad idea. There is the very important issue of RFI from the car and lack of enforcement that remains. Unfortunately that's a problem that handing out radios alone won't fix.
No, 8 in 800 said they heard the emergency broadcast on their AM radio, in a survey done online.
So anyone who was only listening to AM and isn't glued to their cell phones probably never even heard of the survey, as well as people who live WAY out in the boonies and have crappy cell reception at best.
Not to mention that cell phones are only good when the cell towers are working. Widespread flooding, hurricanes, and other interesting disasters can make that a real issue.
This doesn't even touch the "someone takes down the cell-based emergency system on purpose" issue.
@@chadirby6216 add in once the cell service goes down during an emergency and now are looking for a radio and did NOT buy a battery one
These days it's just one software defined radio. If it's receiving AM it's one lot of software, FM is another program, DAB+ yet another program. The hardware is all the same.
Illuminating, as always. Thanks!
That's a lot of money to spend for me to just say "lol screw radio I'm not listening to more ads and DJs than music" and connect my phone via bluetooth to listen to my locally stored music collection
Also worth pointing out - even if there's one of those signs lit up on the interstate telling me to switch to AM radio for an announcement, I'm not going to do it because car manufacturers have made their "infotainment" systems so convoluted to do anything with that I'd likely end up in a collision if I tried. There also ought to be laws mandating physical controls for cars, so that doing something that should be as simple as changing the radio isn't a more severe example of distracted driving than using a cell phone would be.
Even in my current car that I've been driving probably 7 years, I could not tell you from the top of my head how to change it from bluetooth to AM radio. It's not a button, it's a bunch of BS touch screen menus.
EDIT: Come to think of it, why do I even have to change over to AM radio in the first place? With all the connectivity in modern cars, alerts should just play through the car without my intervention. If a Chevy Bolt can send data back to GM that GM sells to insurance companies and screws people over on their insurance rates, then a Chevy Bolt can receive and play a weather alert. Good grief. We're using technology for all the wrong reasons (or, corporations are)