Emergency Landing: Beach or Breakers?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Beaches and airplanes go together like a salad and a toss, especially for emergency landings. But there have been fatalities when pilots land without seeing people walking or wading. In this AVweb video, Paul Bertorelli examines the risks and offers tips on landing on a beach or ditching offshore, if that's the better option.
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Not a pilot but I could listen to Paul talk for hours about aviation
Same here. 👍🍻
Oh,,, so sublime. Sooo fabulous... Sooo.. Oh My Goooddd!! Sooo Gay.... LOL. Who cares what you like. This is about Piloting Details, not about What you like..
@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC lol, you're dumber than you think you are
Same.
5feetgoaround fullflapsC150 you’re very good at homoeroticism, I’m flattered and slightly turned on.
I started flying hang-gliders when I was 18. When you fly a glider, you always make sure you have a landing spot within reach. Today, I'm flying for a regional airline. We have more redundancy than you can imagine. But I am still looking out for a landing spot and the wind direction every time I can see the ground. It's in my blood.
Do you still find yourself moving in the seat as you try and weight shift?
I also flew hang gliders and paragliders and find that I am also much more aware of landing spots and micro weather after decades of flying jets too. Hang gliders (any glider really) are a good addition to the aviation experience bag.
Powered Paraglider pilots also keep an LZ in view
I retired from hang gliding 16 years ago after doing it nearly 30 years. But when driving I'm still evaluating landing areas.
I enjoy your presentation so much. Just enough sarcasm and humor to make me smile but always with a good message and something I take away with me every time. Thank you for doing these.
Well put
Before I opened up the replies to this comment, my reply was going to be “well put”! 😂 Couldn’t agree more.
Very grateful for you taking the time to put the stats together and present them so clearly. Thanks!
A disagreement on the RV with the midair: flaps up is a logical choice after a midair. Better to land a bit fast than do a configuration change with unknown damage to the wing. If the wing was still together with flaps up that doesn’t guarantee it will stay attached with the geometry/lift/drag change of the flap deployment.
Forgive my naivety but I'm curious about this question, does that mean there's a concern that the movement of the flap linkage will cause damage to the wing or that the additional lift created by the flaps might somehow over stress a damaged wing? Or perhaps that asymmetrical flap extension might make landing more difficult?
@@laprepper I like how you asked very nicely but he didn’t bother to answer.... or even expand on what tf he was even trying to say lol
@@kayhoww Hey, let me explain for you: The original comment is over a year old. The response question is just 3 weeks old. RUclips stops telling users about replies after a few days. Why would the OP come back to this comment after a year...? Do you go checking all your comments ever made, every few days?
@@laprepper Flaps create more lift by causing more drag. This interaction increases pressure on your wing structure. After a midair collision, the wing structure might not be strong enough to hold this extra force, resulting in the entire wing snapping off as a result. Or uneven lift. Or deploying the flaps accidentally severs what was left of one wing's aileron connection.
The original statement is akin to saying if you have a boat that's sinking and an engine that's making weird noise, you'd be better off scooting closer to shore risking the engine, rather than stopping and sinking to try and salvage the engine.
@@EtherFox I get notifications on replies to comments I made several months ago.
Paul puts out very good information that can help you avoid an accident and death. I am a former US Navy pilot, flight instructor and bush pilot. I have survived 3 accidents, one a military jet and 2 small single engine private A/C's. Good preparation and safety knowledge is essential.
This has got to be the best Microsoft Flight let's play channel I've ever seen.
Great breakdown of what you “should” do if faced with the same circumstances...
Great video Paul. I have always had personal a policy that if I was going down, people on the ground had a higher priority than me. I choose to put a 50 year old hunk of aluminum in the sky, so it's my responsibility to make sure the ditching location is people free even if it is a less desirable location.
My mantra is: stack everything you can in your favor. Clean fuel,legal in paperwork, legal airplane, experience with soft field landings and the "what ifs" always going on in your mind. Great video, Paul. I always look forward to your vlogs.
well: that's not much of a vlog....
My beach landing story.
Had an engine quit while at 800' just offshore in FL. A1A that ran up the barrier island was flanked by trees and seemed out of reach with the decent, lucky it was a deserted section of the shoreline. Lined up this the beach, full flaps, it was between high and low tide, a narrow swath of damp packed sand was available, so this was the first choice, touched down at about 55 mph and began the roll out, it was like landing on the smoothest asphalt ever laid.
BUT, I noticed I had to make a choice, I did not know if the tide was coming in and being on a remote section I was thinking of how to recover the aircraft after myself. Waves were breaking in my path, and it was a fairly steep slope, the sand to the left of my track was dry an obviously soft. The wave action and the possible incoming tide made me choose the dry sand up the bank because I could have stayed straight, hit the wave rushing in, flip and have difficulty getting out of the cockpit with the bubbly canopy overhead and or possibly loose the aircraft to sinking into the wet sand by the wave action over the many possible hours to come before recovery, or choose the dry sand and also most likely flip as the nose wheel dug in, but I and the plane would be high and dry at least and not drown! So I steered slightly left to avoid the wave rushing up the shore in front of me avoided it and then the nose wheel sunk in.
The AC promptly nosed over to a high degree throwing me against the shoulder straps, then a pause, then plunking back down on the mains. The best outcome of all the scenarios possible, thankful, no damage to the airplane, no damage to me or anyone else. I did happen to end up next to the back yard of a house under construction, called my friends at the airport, they came with a trailer, a couple hours later we were on our way back. All because the Rotax manual never said you couldn't run max EGT and max CHT at the same time! lol I learned this later from 2 stroke Rotax pilots, you can be at one or the other, but not both!!!
Thanks for sharing your story. I enjoyed reading it. I'm glad you and plane survived.
Thanks for sharing. What kind of airplane?
Had my first cross country today for my PPL training. Realized I have been watching your channel for a great many years. How refreshing it is to be absorbing your content and actually being able to apply it in real life. Thank you Paul. You truly are a treasure to aviation.
Very good, Paul. Ditching is a constant concern here in SoCal especially flying to Catalina. Good stuff!
Not even an aviator, yet I watch these and enjoy them all the same. I feel that A lot of these lessons so eloquently shared apply to much more than being a pilot.
Thank you so very much for doing this, Paul. You are making us all safer pilots. Please keep them coming. 👍
Your presentations are always guarded, well-paced, wise and cover all the elements. A pleasure to watch.
As a non-pilot and frequent beach-goer with my kids, I whole heartedly support this video.
Another quality video. Thank you Paul. One thing that should be mentioned is while the ditching stats look better than one may think, a BRS on your plane could increase the odds of the pilot, and its occupants.
I grew up in Venice and spent alot of time on that beach. Later after I got my pilot's license, flew a couple times out to the airport there. Thanks for the memories and thanks for your videos.
Here in Southern California over the years there are many incidence of lifeguard vehicles running over people on the beach. If it can happen to them...
Very informative video! These education videos (especially the ones going over crashes and how they happen) are some of the best videos on AVweb. Keep up the good work.
I work in the oil industry and I've been though the helicopter ditching training classes. Got dunked and flipped upside down then had to get out. It was very good training and I cant recommend it highly enough.
To the same point AVweb was making:
1) Leave your seat belt on!
2) Take a deep breath before the cabin floods completely
3) Open the door, put your hand outside the cabin
4) Take your seat belt off with your free hand and pull yourself out
Absolutely outstanding video! After almost 30 years of GA flying I am, of course, still learning but it is somewhat unusual for me to come across information that I haven’t already heard at one point or another. This video made a number of points that I have not been exposed to before that I plan to add to my “bag of tricks”. Thanks!
Paul, take care of yourself buddy. I want to be the best pilot I can be, and the wisdom I gain from your videos is part of how I do that. Take your vitamins, and keep making these gems...-Josh
Paul you have put together another great, informative and educational episode that provides not only pilots but beachgoers information that may just save everyone’s lives who operate or live and vacation on or near beaches. The thought of seeing an aircraft operating near a beach will always draw attention and have people on the ground move in closer to get a more advantageous location to observe the aircraft. But they may never realizing how the aircraft is operating or experiencing any mechanical difficulties. Like moths to a flame people will find the need to get on a beach to watch as the aircraft makes it’s final approach to land and only then feel the need to get out of its way. At that point they may find that running in sand is a very slow process and as you mentioned pilots may not always see these obstructions because the pilots are fixated on landing the aircraft and by then it maybe to late. Also anyone’s who’s had the opportunity to attend ocean survival training in the military will tell you the same thing. Cold water entry can cause that fatal gasp of water ingestion into the lungs if not prepared but it can still come even if prepared too. It’s just a natural reflex that sometimes happens and it’s usually fatal. I think your best advise is the operators attitude towards flying. Not what I can get away with but what I do that makes me the safest pilot I can be? Have I done all that I can to and prepare for everything I can to ensure the safety of all people in or around my aircraft. It comes down to a pilots & mechanics thought process. How can I do it the best and safest way possible to ensure that I have taken everything in my control to ensure a safe operation of this aircraft. Can I do more is a question each person involved in aviation needs to ask themselves every time they make a decision in aviation. Maybe ask themselves this question when they wake up or go to bed everyday! Can I do more?
It's amazing how easily you can think of these simple solutions with just a few seconds' thought. I figured line up on the beach and prepare to slip out over the water (or vice versa, just as good a plan) if you think it's not a good option. Chances are the plane's trash anyway. Best you can hope nowadays is that you might be saving your electronics which can be a fair chunk of change. But it's not worth even risking someone's life on a long landing or a freak accident.
Best options to prepare for these kinds of situations is random timing training - letting a passenger or a timer tell you when you have an unexpected emergency and to plan based on your current situation. That way you'll just KNOW when the time comes what you need to do.
It's all insured. The only thought should be safety.
Your iPhone will survive a swim anyway lol
@@rkan2 lol, I'm not referring to an iPhone. Those are peanuts compared to some flight instrument packages.
@@TheOwenMajor Exactly. Once I have a problem the plane is the insurance company's problem. The lives are mine.
One of our flight instructors lost an engine and had to ditch in a river with a Cherokee 140. He made a normal approach and flared at the normal approach speed with no flip over experienced.
I really enjoy these scenario videos. It forces us to think and be better prepared. Thank you, sir.
The last plane crash was in Newport Oregon and had the Mayor on board.
The very first time I ever stepped on a GA aircraft, was a 172 out of Newport Oregon. Some friend of my grandpa's, I think. That was 20 years ago, but part of you has to wonder if it's the same guy. How many Cessna 172s can there be, anyway? Lol
Where is the satire?
Wonderful video and some great take away points here. Thank you!
Great job Paul! I live on the coast in Florida and I feel like I can be a much safer pilot as a result of this video! Thanks!
These presentations Paul & team put together are amazing. i love the focus on practical application with just enough technical input so it all makes sense. I am a student pilot (or was, before the 'Mexican beer' outbreak) and have no doubt one of these great lessons will save my life one day. Keep cranking these out and stay safe!
Thanks Paul. It’s always to get your safety minded advice. One of the few commentators without an agenda but for safety.
Great analysis as always. I would love to sit with this guy, a case of beer and just talk about airplanes.
Personally, I prefer a bottle of rum and a cooler full of ice cubes.
Honestly, I love this channel for the fact it breaks it down into what my instructor called “real life flying” and “FAA flying.” Thanks for the video!
About 3 years ago my brother and another pilot were flying a 2-seat ultralight in a loose formation with two other ultralights, just off Pt Mugu (near Malibu California). The engine began to lose power due to incompetent maintenance (according to NTSB) and because the beach was crowded on a beautiful July day, they decided to ditch in the water. My brother was more experienced so he took over for the ditching, which was textbook. Both pilots got away from the ultralight uninjured and began to swim the two hundred feet to shore. The other pilot got there uninjured but somehow my brother drowned during the swim - the coroner said he wasn't injured and didn't have a heart attack. My brother once was a good swimmer but was 56 years old and probably hadn't had to swim for 20 years and was about 100 pounds heavier, but you know how it is - old age and lack of fitness creeps up on you and you overestimate your physical ability. He had the skills to ditch closer to shore but we assume that he was worried about hitting swimmers and thought he could easily swim the distance. Also, you know how ultralight pilots are - nobody brought flotation devices even though the plan was to fly up and down the coast to promote the flying club. Here's the news article if you want to read it: www.vcstar.com/story/news/2017/08/16/officials-release-cause-death-man-ultralight-crash-near-point-mugu-rock/573098001/
FYI, here's the NTSB report: app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20170709X03649&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA
@@garywatson better bring something to float with , floatwest or , l would guess say two two litre soda bottles mabye tied together and straps strings worn like a west, bottles on chest . only place that has room for it .
You're quite a journalist Paul. Thanks for the thoughts.
Excellent video. Very informative with real statistics to back it up done in a no bs/sugar coating narrative. I don't live near a beach but I live near a ton of lakes and rivers and it really gave me some food for thought on water landings. Thank you very much and please continue with these videos.
I really like that last point.
Safety isn't just about doing the safe thing when you "need" to; it's about training your brain to do the safe thing every time.
hey mr Paul you have a sense of humor, your funny, informative, and intelligent!
Great vid. I had to land on a beach a couple years ago in Pensacola when my internal combustion engine became an external combustion engine with oil all over the windscreen. Luckily it was a cold day and there was no one on the beach. After seeing the scene and measuring the tire ruts in the sand, the accident investigator said “you made a great landing”. My response “I’ve had worse”.
I’m becoming a fan of this man mentality. He just seems so wise I’m guessing it’s from all the years of making mistakes or learning from others. Keep it up sir!
As Always excellent analysis and informationPaul! Great things to consider if the this decision had to be made.
A very sobering and down to earth analysis of GA in the lower $ bracket . The complacency and penny pinching that accompanies low end GA is something the regulators need strict compliance records and hefty fines to back it . From an Aussie fan
Great video. I always enjoy your thoughtfulness and dry sense of humor Paul
I have flown a few single engines and a helo but not interested enough to get my license. For some reason RUclips decides I should become a pilot and sends me your videos. I actually love them. Thank you RUclips.
Awesome job Paul. Living in coastal country it’s always on our minds when flying...
Love Paul Berterelli
LOL..
Just not enough to be bothered to spell his name correctly.
Paul, I am a pilot SEL, these video's are the best! Thank you! The video footage you put in flying over the ocean was epic sir. Super HD. I have flown with many pilot's that say they would NEVER ditch. Many years ago I looked at the data and saw the same stat's that you just posted. Very survivable. I would ditch with the utmost confidence. I do realize that some people can't swim and I can understand that reluctance. Also, I am a very firm believer in seat belts, I have been a police officer for twenty years. They work! More precisely in aviation, it's the shoulder harness that pilots are reluctant to use. Over the years of flying with so many other pilot's and instructor's that do NOT use the shoulder harness/strap has surprised me. I always use it.. It keeps the cranium out of the instrument panel and keeps you alive. Please keep cranking these video's out sir!
Excellent. Just came across this one, good job Paul. Thoughtful as always and informative. Given how much time I had spent flying from Florida to the Bahamas I really wish I knew these things years ago. Better late than never I guess.
"Attitude and what I consciousness of safety." What a great saying! It's what I call doing the right thing because it is the right thing. If you respect doing things the proper way, you are more likely to do that in all things and have fewer problems in life than those who are always looking to skirt the rules.
The downside to all this is that back in the old days, people would rush to help you when you ditched, now they will film you (or take selfies) so they can post on social media ... it's a cruel world.
2 little details.
1- Try not to hit with the tail first. You put full elevator only after touching down.
2- On low wingers use only 10-15 of flaps only. Keep that wing as clean as possible, and the impact less hard due that..
3-Also touch down level, even on a crosswind, no wing low method on the water or soft sand.
above comment said feel ground with tail first
These videos are very well done. I'm not a pilot yet but I find them very valuable.
I like how he draws his conclusions on data, not hypothetical congecture
So thorough. Thanks for this common sense, no drama approach.
Thanks Paul. Very useful advice. Nice little J3. First aircraft I “flew” (at 6 years-old, in my dad’s lap). Fond memories of avgas, vending machine crackers, and engine parts soaking in kerosine during the rebuild.
Excellent video Paul!! Bringing awareness to ditching is so important. I think some pilots don't think about it as much, especially if you don't fly over water much. Really sad to hear some folks on the beach were fatally injured. Real eye opener. Great video!
Thanks for bringing up the "consciousness of safety" subject and relating it to the 100LL/automotive fuel subject. One things seems clear to me, those who skirt the rules often introduce unnecessary problems. Sometimes they pay the price. In some ways, it's similar to the statistical safety benefit of filing a flight plan. Clearly nothing about the act of filing a flight plan helps the flight itself. However, the planning is likely to be better, and therefore, the result.
Superb. Especially the statement at the end.
I certainly didn't miss the fossicking eye candy at 2.20! On a serious note, since the Scully landing I would have thought water landings would be considered more often by pilots these days.
Spotting objects from altitude can be surprisingly difficult. I was taking my Commercial flight test when at 2,500 feet AGL the examiner closed the throttle. You get one shot or it's an automatic failure. I did my FMMGT checks, trimmed for descent, selected the field, pointed out my 1,500 and 1,000 foot points and did an engine warm. At about 1,800 feet, sheep were seen in the selected field. The only thing that saved me from the automatic failure was the examiner also didn't see the sheep. I was now too low to change landing area so made the best of it and chose the side of the field with the least amount of lamb chops.
This was a surprise to me because I had done all my training in this area and an extensive amount of time was spent in the previous two weeks and I knew there were sheep there and they were looked for when choosing a field. I can only surmise that it was just after midday in the middle of summer and Mr Sheep wasn't casting a shadow so had a lower profile.
These videos are excellent. Great narration and humor!
Paul, you are a wonderful presenter and analyst. I enjoy your shows, enormously. thank you so much.
What a great video! Thank you for putting this together and for your no-nonsense approach.
Great video. I always wondered about the best options for beach landing/ditching. Thanks for sharing factual data and pulling this all together.
What awesome videos to watch. Lots of great information presented very clear and concise.
You're saving lives, Paul!
That was good....very good! Using data and facts to get the message across.....priceless.
Another great video, Paul.
Thank you for the work you do in putting these videos together.
Excellent well researched and presented video. I think I will leave my “runway” beach towel at home.
Great video. I appreciate your clear separation between statistical fact, conclusions, and your best guess. Excellent presentation!!
FS2020 is as close to piloting as I get...
Paul your vids are helpful and interesting thanks. Learning a lot about safety and technique.
Great message. #1 responsibility up there is the safety of those below us. Cost of admission.
This was a GREAT AvWeb. Thank you so much for your sincerity and clarity of thought.
Thanks for you videos. Just had a CFI tell me I’d be fine in a C150 (I’m 6’ 240 pounds). I ran the W&B and showed him we’d be over max gross weight by a few pounds. He responded we could leave with minimal fuel (2.5 hours for 2 hour demo). Flying a 65 year old airplane at max gross with no fuel margin for error was not safety conscious for me and I’m looking for a new CFI.
I really enjoy case studies by Paul Bertorelli. Super informative and interesting.
I’ll go with your preference - gear up and not be afraid of the water. Consciousness of safety. I like that. Great public safety video.
Very nice and informative video. I have often thought about this flying around Catalina and up and down the LA/San Diego coast. This is very helpful to get us all thinking and have a plan for the scenario, shoud it happen.
Nice work here, Paul.
My choice will be the intracoastal waterway if possible. They’re usually just a few feet deep (except the channel), no waves, no swimmers, warm water, and they have boats.
Hi Paul.
Good stats. and data. Thx.
A pilot saved me in a similar situation. I was walking on the beach with my girlfriend and heard an unusual sound. I turned around to see a Cessna 152 about 100 yards away and 50 feet off the ground at most. The prop was windmilling, making the sound I heard. At the last second he veered seaward and landed in the surf. If the plane had a horn, we would have been able to get out of his way. We didn't notice the plane until it was almost on top of us.
🤔 you've just given me an idea! Horns for planes!! If you're flying somewhere, and stuck behind another plane that just won't go, plane horn! If you're flying around and there's a bird in your flightpath, plane horn! How about, finding out where someone you really hate lives, you repeatedly fly over their house at off times, plane horn!! Jammed taxiways, close calls on takeoffs and approaches, or just being friendly towards other pilots and the statue of liberty- plane horn!!
@@markk3652 A horn could be handy in the fuel pump queue.
I really like your videos! Please keep them coming. I think that you provide a service to non-pilots and pilots alike. Thank you!
Thanks Paul. Your Life’s work is magnificent, and much appreciated. Vini
Whoa, you actually went and got those different shots. A+ for effort!
Outstanding video as always, right to the point and very thoughtful! Thanks!
Definitely late to the comment party here but I have just a few words to share. First of all, wow! This is an excellent video really well put together. I love statistics and real life applications to help me be a better pilot and instructor to my students. I hadn't thought about sea/land breeze but as someone who always flies over the coast this is a handy little bit of information. I used to be scared about ditching in water but this makes a lot of sense and I'm glad my initial thoughts about slowing down as much as possible with flaps seems to be the best case scenario here. Thanks again for an excellent video!
This is information that ALL pilots need to hear. Great video!
Thank you for covering this topic. This question is one that keeps nagging me - especially about whether to fly it on (slow) or stall it and drop on.
Outstanding!
Thanks again for your awesome insight and very valuable lessons learned.
Great videos, I think they help build awareness of emergency conditions. I certainly value them as a pilot.
Lots of good information here, thank you for making this video and putting to rest my fear of flipping the 172 on a water landing
Thank you for another incredibly useful and well produced video! Great food for thought.
This channel kicks ass
Thanks Paul. Great video. Thank you for taking the time to put that together.
Paul, you run 100LL and now have the dreaded stuck valve. Small continentals can’t handle all the lead, run too cool. Get the STC and run 50/50 mixture of LOW LEAD AND AUTO. Great videos.
Excellent presentation. Thank you!
You always give excellent advice. Now if people would just implement that advice we would all be better for it.