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Horus is such a sad character cuz in the end no one wants to remember him. all chaos marines hate him, all loyalists hate him he will never be forgotten but never remembered
As Horus once said "Warmaster. The title is heavy around my neck. Horus, Lupercal, father, son, friend, enemy all are lost beneath the weight of that word."
Horus was told by the chaos gods that the emperor stole their power and lied to his sons about it. He stole the power to keep his hair luxurious, silky, long, and beautiful. Horus wanted this power, for he had gone bald, so he convinced 5/6 of his bald brothers that if he wins and takes the throne, he will give them all hair as beautiful and as silky as their father. He further convinced his 3 brothers that had hair that they would go bald the emperor would never share his secret to his hair. But Horus, upon facing the emperor, saw the folly of his ways and saw that the chaos gods lied to him. There was no cure to male pattern baldness, and they were using him. Upon realizing this, he gave up and chose to die a bald man rather live as man who will be known for his fake hair that he received via transplant from the chaos gods.
He convinced Curze by telling him that one day, his glorious grisly locks would fall off too one day and Curze saw a vision of it happening, so he agreed to help Horus steal the Emepror's secret formula for his long lucious locks
Horus at one point mentioned that the only other Primarch that knew war as well as he did was Ferrus Manus. Horus thought that, with Ferrus, Terra would have been broken in a week at most. This is why I think Ferrus was also a serious contender for warmaster.
I thought he said that about both Manus and Guilliman? For Warfare yes. As for the matter of Bobby G being a warmaster, no because Horus said G-man wants to forget waging war all the same.
Imo he said Ferrus because he was unrelenting in his resolve and would what was necessary to win. But imo Ferrus isn’t as well rounded as Horus/Girlman/Lion
@@braxtongrundy4625 Girlman and Lion aren't well rounded. Girlyman isn't a fighter, and not the best commander, nor did he hold much respect among his brothers. Lion sucked as a leader, half his legion fought against him, and he was a worse diplomat.
You have to love the way some 40k fans hate subtext and will quote Alpharius as a reputable source of information in a book that he also literally opens by stating that he is lying to you. The audience. Or treat deeply corrupted Horus a reliable narrator when he has already been shown to be deceiving himself or being unreliable. Love that you can see past the literal and I really enjoyed the Primarch series.
How did Alpharius learn his spy-craft, if not from the Emperor and Malcador, the literal “spymaster”? I haven’t gotten around to the Primarch novels yet, but everything Alpha Legion says, is meant to confuse. You only know something about them, since they want you to think that. Think about it outside of their words, how did Alpharius learn his trade to such a massive extent and had secret information from the Emperor? Alpharius and Omegon knew about Chaos long before many did. Like most of Alpha Legion shenanigans, it doesn’t add up and likely a mix of truth and lies. Discounting that Alpharius was not near or on Terra just because he said he was lying is excusing the facts of his training and knowledge.
@ sure but there’s a problem with your line of reasoning, you’re assuming that there is only one source in the universe, capable of providing information and knowledge when we know for a fact, there’s not. It’s not how knowledge or the spread of information work in general and in specific in this universe, you have the cabal and the other perpetuals who could’ve provided at least some if not the majority of the information. Never mind the fact that I’m sure a few years good old James will find a reason to rewrite a different slightly more disappointing reason as to where they got the information from.
@@Ruggedtoaster of course not. But Alpharius himself says that a lie clad in truths is most effective. But with the Alpha Legion the lie can be the ends itself, not only the means.
I like the concept that Horus is simultaneously an empty shell of a character and someone so charismatic everyone loves them. The fact that they do this willingly simply to manipulate people into liking them in order to get what they want is brilliant. It's Machiavellian to the core. An absolute pure version of it. And it wreaks of Horus.
It is telling that the thing Chaos showed Horus to put him over the edge was a future Imperium where the Emperor was worshipped as a god, while he was absent. I never see people comparing Horus and Perturabo, but both seem highly aggrieved by the recognition they don't think they are getting.
I often wonder what Horus was feeling when it clicked in his head that on two different occasions, Leman came home to hand a soggy, gift-wrapped box, large enough to contain a Primarch head, to Uncle Malcador, and received head-pats from Daddy Emps.
“ or if you’re a major kill because he was bald” I wish he wasn’t part of my introduction into Warhammer. I have so much stuff to unlearn because of him.
Gotta get those books, also the Dawn of War video games somehow captured the spirit of the universe in my opinion! Can't go wrong with the new Space Marine 2 either.
As a Son of Horus player in Heresy, I relate to being that social chameleon, to having expectations placed on you that you can’t ever live up to, and the constant thought of “I wanna die, but let’s play the long game out.” Mental illness is a bitch. But even after all of that, I have a one up on Horus Borus: I am happy. Because that’s the other thing: HORUS IS A BUMMER!!
Idk, I always prefered the original vision of who and what Horus was like with Horus Rising. The dude who is being asked by his creator to be ruthless, but has the kindness and charisma to try for a more peaceful route, even if he is sabotaged or fails in that process. His fall is more tragic that way. I'd like to compare it to the original Tau, that of "good intentions being grimdark by the tragedy of a universe that doesn't give a chance to do what's right".
Corvus Corax sworn off working with him when he used the RG as infantry instead of what they were made for. I can't remember 100% but I think it got so hostile that Leman had to calm Corvus down.
Q: "WTF happened to get us to where we ended up?" A: Erebus. Sigh. I know, I know. I hate it too. But Erebus is the one who stole the Anathane blade, ending any possibility of working with the Interex. (It probably would have broken down anyway, but Erebus took even the possibility away) Erebus gave the blade to the Governor on Davan (and I believe was the source of the corruption on the planet). Then Erebus was the one who publicly goaded Horus into personally leading the attack against all of the advice of his Mourneval. Then it was Erebus who convinced Abbadon and Aximand to bring Horus down to the planet to be healed. Then Erebus was the one who went into Horus' mind while he was being "healed" in the Temple. Every G/D step of the way in the actual fall of Horus was Erebus pushing him. There's no way around it except to say maybe it was Lorgar manipulating Erebus. But even if it wasn't Erebus' idea, it was the actions taken by Erebus that caused it all. It's probably the one thing I would absolutely change in the 40k lore because I would VASTLY prefer that Horus was to rebel FIRST and reach out to Chaos when he failed because I think your characterization of him is excellent and would very easily lead him to fall on his own. Like imagine that the High Lords of Terra decided to try to Censure Angron or Kurze - but bypassed Horus entirely. Imagine if Horus was denied the resources he required because he hadn't set up a proper imperial tax system on several planets, and the High Lords decided to fight him with Bureaucracy. Imagine if Horus himself was censured because the High Lords disagreed with how he was prosecuting the Crusade. Imagine if Malcador decided to support the High Lords - because the Emperor did want the Imperium to be controlled by human hands, according to Malcador. Imagine Horus realizing that the Emperor was going to do to the Lunar Wolves what he did to the Thunder Warriors because the Lunar Wolves have no place in peace time - even Perturabo's legion has a place in peace time, but his legion, and Angrons, and Mortarions, and Russ's, and so many others have nothing to offer the Imperium but war. So he starts to plan ways to take over the Imperium in order to protect his Sons... but when he launches his rebellion, he fails. And instead of admitting he's in the wrong, when he's at his lowest, when he's on the run, he listens to Lorgar when Lorgar says "Where do you think Father acquired the power to make us, Brother...? Imagine if you had that power..."... what would the Horus as you've described do in a situation like that?
I think it is fair to say that Erebus would have done that with or without Lorgar giving the order, Erebus was an asshole who wanted to torture and destroy things, and since the Emperor favored this one guy and he really seemed to have a desire to torture that particular scorpion (his words)it would make sense to use whatever methods he could to cause some chaos, after all he was the one who manipulated Lorgar into turning towards Chaos too, with the help of Cor Pharon.
I just finished reading False Gods, the book in which the battle on Davin's plague moon takes place. I got the impression that Temba's ship had actually crashed into the moon and was acting as a daemonic beacon for the plaguebearers and poxwalkers.
In the End of Death it is pretty much 100% confirmed that Horus WAS the first Primarch found so surprise surprise, Alpharius was full of shit in his Primarch book.
Not according to the alpharius focused book where the emperor found alpharius on tera after the scattering. Though he wasnt officially"found" like any other primarch.
Horus was the most tragic primarch. Not because his life was horrible, but because he was one the most humble, likeable and charismatic primarchs. And his fall was probably the most hurtful one of all the traitor primarchs.
Horus is just a more human emeperor: Corrupt by warp powers, manipulative, and very separated from the human condition and anybody else that could be by his side. Thats why i like him as a foil to big E.
Horus to me, is someone who at the end of it all just wanted to have comradery and love. He was the first primarch found by the emperor and that was all he knew for most of his life. When he found out he had brothers, not just a few but 19 other brothers he became excited like anyone would be when they find out they have siblings, someone he could possibly relate to and build a bond with. Horus wanted to be accepted by his brothers because he valued them in a way that isnt just another tool of war. Unfortunately you cannot make everyone like you and he had brothers that saw right through him once the cracks started to show
This was a fascinating character study. I never saw Horus from this point of view, but once you laid it out it was so obvious and for me at least very relatable. I’m loving the whole series so keep them coming!
I think If we got a show on the heresy, I think it would at least have ten or twelve seasons, and It would be animated And of course, Narrated by Trazyn
Месяц назад+3
I hope it is animated, I'd easy watch 25 seasons based on the books
Tbh, I think the ideal adaptation would either be a Vanillaware game in the style of something like Odin Sphere, or a live performed opera that takes literal days to perform and has a budget larger than the gdp of some small nations.
Horus: Say, Brother Sanguinius, would like to hear a joke? Sanguinius: Pray tell, Brother Horus. Horus: Knock knock. Sanguinius: Who's there? Horus: Heresy. Sanguinius: Heresy...........who? Horus: Bet you didn't HereSEE this one coming!!!! *(bonk)*
Happy late birthday bones, the start of your channel coincided with my own entrance into learning about 40k so I really appreciate you sticking it out! Thankful for your work! Glad to be rotating on this planet listening to this and using it to get other people into the fandom.
I think you nailed it with Horus being a social chameleon - almost like a sociopath driven by upholding his image among his peers and his dad. I also think Abnett sets this up well in the first book with what Horus ruminates upon in his private moments, and he brings that manipulative social chameleon nature home in the hardest way by the end of the siege.
Am I enjoying the longer form videos? damn right I am. I love the pacing far more than the short form, everything feels perfectly explained to enough of a degree that it's easy to follow and makes sense.
I was having a bad day. Your vids tend to cheer me up a bit. One thing that skewered my brain was the splash of American Psycho. Perfect fit...and the delivery was smooth as fuck. I tip my hat to you, sir. Keep up the good work.
30:20 I think Sanguinius would have been one of the best choices for chaos. Mostly because how he was loved by basicly everyone including almost all his brothers (I think only Angron and Kurze didn't like him) and how powerful his legion was. Like imagine Sanguinius who is already a monster in combat being blessed by all four chaos gods
Thats why the theory of sanguinus falling to the black rage during his fight with horus, killing him and becoming the vessel for chaos undivided and then being killed by the emperor would have been so good if it was true.
Bro, you just got information wrong at 23:33. Temba's ship isn't orbiting the moon of Davin. It crashed on the moon of Davin. Horus and his legion meet with Erebus on Davin, Erebus basically baits Horus to go to the moon of Davin. He does and leads his forces despite warnings from Loken. When they arrive to the actual remains of the ship, he splits his forces and on the way to the bridge of the ship, gets separated from his men and later arrives to the command bridge and sees the chaos tainted Eugan Temba, duels him and is stabbed with the anathame. Summarizing yes but this is what actually happens.
I don't want to spoil it for you, but there's some *extremely* underdiscussed stuff in The End and The Death that straightens out Horus's characterization inconsistencies. It's one of the coolest things in the series and I've literally never heard anyone talk about it. Abnett lands that plane.
Horus: What happened to Primarchs 2 and 11 and their legions? Malcador: * *Force Chokes Horus* * There is no such thing as 2 and 11. The Emperor has decreed that such numbers don’t even exist. Telltale Games: Horus will remember that.
With my unwieldly levels of procrastination, I am so glad I found your Channel as it helped me continue the stream of 40K vids to continue playing in the background so I can keep myself in the painting mood. Good Work!
Horus was at least brave enough to have the courage of his convictions. For good or ill, he at least did more walk than talk. More than he can say for his brothers. Supposedly he even knew what the emperor had in store for the astartes after the union was complete. He knew what had happened to the Thunder Warriors, and chaos told him what the emperor had stolen in order to even get off the ground. So at least Horus was consistent.
Idea: There’s no Erebus, and Horus creates a peaceful unification with the Interex and the Imperium, aliens included. The Emperor hears this, and commands Horus “kill all them aliens”. Horus says but one thing: “No.” A wholly new take on the Horus Heresy, without chaos as the motivation or catalyst for it.
Recently I find myself thinking about how Horus was the only primarch who was ever HUMAN, due to his unique awakening of his primarch stature on Cthonia.
Happy belated birthday, my dude! I think it’s appropriate that you cover the bald man himself on this unlucky day. I’ve always loved the idea of Horus and the many theories around how Horus would be if he were to be a good guy and one of the other primarch’s would’ve become the Arch-traitor, so thanks for the vid
Happy Birthday Bones! I want to say you are killing it and I hope you keep the content flowing. Congrats on the RAID sponsorship, I am curious if you have played, contacted the Tacticus WH40K game at all? Or I mean any of the other WH games in general. Maybe I am just a fan boy but I think you would be an awesome spokes person for the WH games out there...
His interactions with Malcador also tell us a lot about his character. That fear of being replaced, not being enough. Just a tool, it truly cut him deep.
23:24 Temba's ship wasn't actually orbiting the moon of davin it was crushed into it and horus led his astartes on the moon not on the ship in orbit. The final confrontation with Temba ocured in the destroyed ship. Also sons of horus or horus himself didnt beam on to the moon, they were deployed by aircraft and droppods.
6:52 Horus was founded very early he didn’t influence Cthonia but he was there long enough to appreciate the culture! He was literally the only Primarch raised by the Emperor! You have some lore inaccuracies!
I think Horus needs a little more elbow grease on his reasoning for the heresy but I like the idea of him doing in spite of his father because he found out about the thunder warriors and feared him and his brothers would meet the same fate.
I always pictured him as Justice League Lex Luthor but with a penchant for trying to be a social chameleon and having that stress build internally and add to the pressure he feels being War Master.
Chaos had plans for the greatest son to fall. Tzeentch had schemes to turn the most gifted son to turn against the father that wanted him to stop. Just as Tzeentch foresaw.
Warhammer is all about creation weapons and being attacked by those living weapons you made. Necrons and C'tann, Old ones and Kroks/Eldar, humans and men of iron and the emperor and the space marines.
Horus was never going to win the war. He wasn't supposed to. If chaos actually wanted to win they would have chosen Sanguinius as their champion. Because while everyone liked Horus, everyone LOVED Sanguinius
I mean they didn't call themselves after their primarch but just the part Ferus liked least. Had they called themselves Gorgons instead they'd be much better off. Horus really has the only legion named after a primarch.
Eyyyyupppp. Those inconsistencies. One of my biggest gripes with the Horus Heresy is the Siege of Terra books. They SIDELINED the NAMESAKE of the whole Heresy to glaze up the two bricks of Perturabo and Dorn.
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But you didn't answer the real question. Did Horus start the Heresy by ucking up the blunt rotation?
So what you are saying is... horus is the Kamala Harris of politicians
Raid? That's really disappointing.
Nice American Psycho reference
After big *E* soul blasted Horus out of the the materium and inmaterium his new tittle became
*"Horus the POROUS"*
"I don't think anyone had a bad opinion of Horus."
That sound you hear in the background is Corax's "I told you so".
If you listen even closer you can hear Lion El'Johnson scoffing and Vulkan raising his eyebrow in suspicion.
That is one of the reasons the RG are my favorite in 30k. Corvus knew he was a POS.
Lion El' Jonson is basically the Perturabo to Horus' Rogal Dorn.
@@andrewfornes5320 Corvus knew he had no sense of self.
Horus was just a real chill cool guy. So cool
"...if you're majorkill: because he was bald"
I welcome the Majorkill slander, as a long time watcher of his.
You do realize Mr. Bones is follicly challenged as well? There may be a small bit of bias in his opinion.
@@jeffreydrake5851 I don't care? Lol, anyone talking trash about Majorshill is funny to me.
Why is majorkill disliked?
@@Whydoesthishappen i don’t dislike him. I think he’s a shill, and I like a lot of his content.
I am also just a purveyor of trash talk.
@@Dallows65 Oohhh ok. Yeah I’m new to the community as of late. So I was confused.
Personally I just wouldn't have named my son "Horus Heresy". Kind of a bad move
Helly hansen was trademarked still
Well he was the son of John Warhammer
His name is actually "The" Horus Heresy
Still a better name than Angron. He called his shot on that one
@@whysogrim697He can't be THE Horuse Heresy! Ohio State University has the "The" part trademarked!
Horus is such a sad character cuz in the end
no one wants to remember him. all chaos marines hate him, all loyalists hate him
he will never be forgotten but never remembered
Yeah 😢
As Horus once said "Warmaster. The title is heavy around my neck. Horus, Lupercal, father, son, friend, enemy all are lost beneath the weight of that word."
Horus was told by the chaos gods that the emperor stole their power and lied to his sons about it. He stole the power to keep his hair luxurious, silky, long, and beautiful. Horus wanted this power, for he had gone bald, so he convinced 5/6 of his bald brothers that if he wins and takes the throne, he will give them all hair as beautiful and as silky as their father. He further convinced his 3 brothers that had hair that they would go bald the emperor would never share his secret to his hair.
But Horus, upon facing the emperor, saw the folly of his ways and saw that the chaos gods lied to him. There was no cure to male pattern baldness, and they were using him. Upon realizing this, he gave up and chose to die a bald man rather live as man who will be known for his fake hair that he received via transplant from the chaos gods.
10 out of 10 beautiful story.😢
Everything is canon
He convinced Curze by telling him that one day, his glorious grisly locks would fall off too one day and Curze saw a vision of it happening, so he agreed to help Horus steal the Emepror's secret formula for his long lucious locks
He saw the follicle of his ways, I'll see myself out :)
Horus hair-essy
Horus "Bateman" lupercal
What the sigmar
He had some videos to return.
He's pissed because Sanguinius had nicer business cards then he did.
Lol
I read that as Batman
"You've done it! You've defeated me Horus Lupercal! You really are the Warhammer 40,000"
4:14 past RAID shadow lagend
Thank you
🫡
You’re doing the Emperor’s work.
Thanks bro
🫡🫡🫡
Horus at one point mentioned that the only other Primarch that knew war as well as he did was Ferrus Manus. Horus thought that, with Ferrus, Terra would have been broken in a week at most. This is why I think Ferrus was also a serious contender for warmaster.
Sanguinius as well, who commanded the respect of every other Primarch and was capable of mediating disputes
I thought he said that about both Manus and Guilliman? For Warfare yes. As for the matter of Bobby G being a warmaster, no because Horus said G-man wants to forget waging war all the same.
Imo he said Ferrus because he was unrelenting in his resolve and would what was necessary to win. But imo Ferrus isn’t as well rounded as Horus/Girlman/Lion
@@braxtongrundy4625 Girlman and Lion aren't well rounded. Girlyman isn't a fighter, and not the best commander, nor did he hold much respect among his brothers. Lion sucked as a leader, half his legion fought against him, and he was a worse diplomat.
nah man he totally betrayed the imperium because the emperor wouldn’t give him hair treatments
" I never wanted this. I never wanted to lose my hair. To unleashed my follicles. But you stole hair from the gods and lied to your sons!"
Why is this giving me Deja Vu
You have to love the way some 40k fans hate subtext and will quote Alpharius as a reputable source of information in a book that he also literally opens by stating that he is lying to you. The audience. Or treat deeply corrupted Horus a reliable narrator when he has already been shown to be deceiving himself or being unreliable. Love that you can see past the literal and I really enjoyed the Primarch series.
How did Alpharius learn his spy-craft, if not from the Emperor and Malcador, the literal “spymaster”? I haven’t gotten around to the Primarch novels yet, but everything Alpha Legion says, is meant to confuse. You only know something about them, since they want you to think that.
Think about it outside of their words, how did Alpharius learn his trade to such a massive extent and had secret information from the Emperor? Alpharius and Omegon knew about Chaos long before many did.
Like most of Alpha Legion shenanigans, it doesn’t add up and likely a mix of truth and lies. Discounting that Alpharius was not near or on Terra just because he said he was lying is excusing the facts of his training and knowledge.
@ sure but there’s a problem with your line of reasoning, you’re assuming that there is only one source in the universe, capable of providing information and knowledge when we know for a fact, there’s not. It’s not how knowledge or the spread of information work in general and in specific in this universe, you have the cabal and the other perpetuals who could’ve provided at least some if not the majority of the information. Never mind the fact that I’m sure a few years good old James will find a reason to rewrite a different slightly more disappointing reason as to where they got the information from.
The lie in the beginning refers to the speaker. Omegon is talking, so that's the lie.
@ cool beans, does that make him a reliable narrator?
@@Ruggedtoaster of course not. But Alpharius himself says that a lie clad in truths is most effective.
But with the Alpha Legion the lie can be the ends itself, not only the means.
15 minutes ago?!
Last time I was this early there were still 20 Primarc- *gets psy-body-slammed by Malcador*
I like the concept that Horus is simultaneously an empty shell of a character and someone so charismatic everyone loves them. The fact that they do this willingly simply to manipulate people into liking them in order to get what they want is brilliant.
It's Machiavellian to the core. An absolute pure version of it. And it wreaks of Horus.
It is telling that the thing Chaos showed Horus to put him over the edge was a future Imperium where the Emperor was worshipped as a god, while he was absent. I never see people comparing Horus and Perturabo, but both seem highly aggrieved by the recognition they don't think they are getting.
I often wonder what Horus was feeling when it clicked in his head that on two different occasions, Leman came home to hand a soggy, gift-wrapped box, large enough to contain a Primarch head, to Uncle Malcador, and received head-pats from Daddy Emps.
Leman deffo didnt kill 2 or 11 from what all sources indicate
I thought the sponsor was a joke
He has fallen....
Ne antaa niin vitusti rahaa että en yhtään ihmettele.
Shit you right
@@TheBoneZone40kcan’t blame a player for making dough get your bread pimp
let my man get that bread
My man’s gots bills to pay. Let him cook.
“ or if you’re a major kill because he was bald” I wish he wasn’t part of my introduction into Warhammer. I have so much stuff to unlearn because of him.
Gotta get those books, also the Dawn of War video games somehow captured the spirit of the universe in my opinion! Can't go wrong with the new Space Marine 2 either.
Honestly kind of happy i started with Arch when comparing with major
Same here! But at I balanced him with Baldemort.
I like the imperial iterator and people who read audio books for me and rufusjuice amazing voice overs
@fosphor8920 it's actually wild how many brilliant channels there are. There's literally hours of content daily.
As a Son of Horus player in Heresy, I relate to being that social chameleon, to having expectations placed on you that you can’t ever live up to, and the constant thought of “I wanna die, but let’s play the long game out.”
Mental illness is a bitch.
But even after all of that, I have a one up on Horus Borus: I am happy.
Because that’s the other thing: HORUS IS A BUMMER!!
I thought you would say "because I have a head full of luscious hair"
I feel the same.
Can’t respect that at all
Idk, I always prefered the original vision of who and what Horus was like with Horus Rising. The dude who is being asked by his creator to be ruthless, but has the kindness and charisma to try for a more peaceful route, even if he is sabotaged or fails in that process. His fall is more tragic that way. I'd like to compare it to the original Tau, that of "good intentions being grimdark by the tragedy of a universe that doesn't give a chance to do what's right".
Corvus Corax sworn off working with him when he used the RG as infantry instead of what they were made for. I can't remember 100% but I think it got so hostile that Leman had to calm Corvus down.
Such a great character destroyed by memes. Pre corrupted Horus is the best primarch imo.
Nah. Vulkan is best boi.
@ Pre heresy even Vulkan would say he was the best 😂
@@sanguinius_yt
Of course he wouldn't. Vulkan would not claim to be better than anyone else.
@@filipnassen9076 I’m saying Vulkan would even say Horus is the best of them.
@@sanguinius_yt
And that's one of the reasons Vulkan is da best boi.
Q: "WTF happened to get us to where we ended up?"
A: Erebus.
Sigh.
I know, I know. I hate it too. But Erebus is the one who stole the Anathane blade, ending any possibility of working with the Interex. (It probably would have broken down anyway, but Erebus took even the possibility away) Erebus gave the blade to the Governor on Davan (and I believe was the source of the corruption on the planet). Then Erebus was the one who publicly goaded Horus into personally leading the attack against all of the advice of his Mourneval. Then it was Erebus who convinced Abbadon and Aximand to bring Horus down to the planet to be healed. Then Erebus was the one who went into Horus' mind while he was being "healed" in the Temple.
Every G/D step of the way in the actual fall of Horus was Erebus pushing him. There's no way around it except to say maybe it was Lorgar manipulating Erebus. But even if it wasn't Erebus' idea, it was the actions taken by Erebus that caused it all. It's probably the one thing I would absolutely change in the 40k lore because I would VASTLY prefer that Horus was to rebel FIRST and reach out to Chaos when he failed because I think your characterization of him is excellent and would very easily lead him to fall on his own.
Like imagine that the High Lords of Terra decided to try to Censure Angron or Kurze - but bypassed Horus entirely. Imagine if Horus was denied the resources he required because he hadn't set up a proper imperial tax system on several planets, and the High Lords decided to fight him with Bureaucracy. Imagine if Horus himself was censured because the High Lords disagreed with how he was prosecuting the Crusade. Imagine if Malcador decided to support the High Lords - because the Emperor did want the Imperium to be controlled by human hands, according to Malcador. Imagine Horus realizing that the Emperor was going to do to the Lunar Wolves what he did to the Thunder Warriors because the Lunar Wolves have no place in peace time - even Perturabo's legion has a place in peace time, but his legion, and Angrons, and Mortarions, and Russ's, and so many others have nothing to offer the Imperium but war. So he starts to plan ways to take over the Imperium in order to protect his Sons... but when he launches his rebellion, he fails.
And instead of admitting he's in the wrong, when he's at his lowest, when he's on the run, he listens to Lorgar when Lorgar says "Where do you think Father acquired the power to make us, Brother...? Imagine if you had that power..."... what would the Horus as you've described do in a situation like that?
I think it is fair to say that Erebus would have done that with or without Lorgar giving the order, Erebus was an asshole who wanted to torture and destroy things, and since the Emperor favored this one guy and he really seemed to have a desire to torture that particular scorpion (his words)it would make sense to use whatever methods he could to cause some chaos, after all he was the one who manipulated Lorgar into turning towards Chaos too, with the help of Cor Pharon.
I just finished reading False Gods, the book in which the battle on Davin's plague moon takes place. I got the impression that Temba's ship had actually crashed into the moon and was acting as a daemonic beacon for the plaguebearers and poxwalkers.
I think Alpharius was definitely found first, it just makes sense. The blood games really sealing it for me
Or was it Omegon? The world will never know
@@gerald216My money is Omegon was found first
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
-Omegon
In the End of Death it is pretty much 100% confirmed that Horus WAS the first Primarch found so surprise surprise, Alpharius was full of shit in his Primarch book.
I mean he does say "I am Alpharius, this is a lie" as sort of an opening line, so kind of makes sense that he lied.
Not according to the alpharius focused book where the emperor found alpharius on tera after the scattering. Though he wasnt officially"found" like any other primarch.
@@Doribi117that's because Omegon is speaking in the beginning. It's not that complicated.
I mean if alpha was still on terra he wouldn't really need to be found that's like finding your child in your back garden
@@azeria1 yes he was Lucky. Though he was kept hidden and such was his legion. Often disguised as other Chapters until they revealed themselves.
Horus was the most tragic primarch.
Not because his life was horrible, but because he was one the most humble, likeable and charismatic primarchs.
And his fall was probably the most hurtful one of all the traitor primarchs.
Horus is just a more human emeperor: Corrupt by warp powers, manipulative, and very separated from the human condition and anybody else that could be by his side.
Thats why i like him as a foil to big E.
Horus to me, is someone who at the end of it all just wanted to have comradery and love. He was the first primarch found by the emperor and that was all he knew for most of his life. When he found out he had brothers, not just a few but 19 other brothers he became excited like anyone would be when they find out they have siblings, someone he could possibly relate to and build a bond with. Horus wanted to be accepted by his brothers because he valued them in a way that isnt just another tool of war. Unfortunately you cannot make everyone like you and he had brothers that saw right through him once the cracks started to show
Going through the early 30k books right now and I’m loving Horus
This was a fascinating character study. I never saw Horus from this point of view, but once you laid it out it was so obvious and for me at least very relatable. I’m loving the whole series so keep them coming!
I think If we got a show on the heresy, I think it would at least have ten or twelve seasons, and It would be animated
And of course, Narrated by Trazyn
I hope it is animated, I'd easy watch 25 seasons based on the books
Tbh, I think the ideal adaptation would either be a Vanillaware game in the style of something like Odin Sphere, or a live performed opera that takes literal days to perform and has a budget larger than the gdp of some small nations.
Kinda like how Legend of the Galactic Heroes is narrated by a historian throughout the series.
@@wolfgangervin2582such a good show
Horus: Say, Brother Sanguinius, would like to hear a joke?
Sanguinius: Pray tell, Brother Horus.
Horus: Knock knock.
Sanguinius: Who's there?
Horus: Heresy.
Sanguinius: Heresy...........who?
Horus: Bet you didn't HereSEE this one coming!!!! *(bonk)*
Outstanding
Happy late birthday bones, the start of your channel coincided with my own entrance into learning about 40k so I really appreciate you sticking it out! Thankful for your work! Glad to be rotating on this planet listening to this and using it to get other people into the fandom.
I think you nailed it with Horus being a social chameleon - almost like a sociopath driven by upholding his image among his peers and his dad. I also think Abnett sets this up well in the first book with what Horus ruminates upon in his private moments, and he brings that manipulative social chameleon nature home in the hardest way by the end of the siege.
11:50 you are mostly correct but corvus corax despised him even at that point
Am I enjoying the longer form videos? damn right I am. I love the pacing far more than the short form, everything feels perfectly explained to enough of a degree that it's easy to follow and makes sense.
People ask "who is Horus", "what is Horus" but never "how is Horus"...probably would have avoided a lot of grief if they had
I was having a bad day. Your vids tend to cheer me up a bit. One thing that skewered my brain was the splash of American Psycho. Perfect fit...and the delivery was smooth as fuck. I tip my hat to you, sir. Keep up the good work.
THAT TRAGEDY OF THE WARMASTER IS COMPARABLE TO THAT OF SANGINOUS.😢
30:20 I think Sanguinius would have been one of the best choices for chaos. Mostly because how he was loved by basicly everyone including almost all his brothers (I think only Angron and Kurze didn't like him) and how powerful his legion was. Like imagine Sanguinius who is already a monster in combat being blessed by all four chaos gods
Thats why the theory of sanguinus falling to the black rage during his fight with horus, killing him and becoming the vessel for chaos undivided and then being killed by the emperor would have been so good if it was true.
I guess you could say that the false order Horus passed on to Russ to start the burning of Prospero was the start of the Horus Hearsay.
Bro, you just got information wrong at 23:33. Temba's ship isn't orbiting the moon of Davin. It crashed on the moon of Davin. Horus and his legion meet with Erebus on Davin, Erebus basically baits Horus to go to the moon of Davin. He does and leads his forces despite warnings from Loken. When they arrive to the actual remains of the ship, he splits his forces and on the way to the bridge of the ship, gets separated from his men and later arrives to the command bridge and sees the chaos tainted Eugan Temba, duels him and is stabbed with the anathame. Summarizing yes but this is what actually happens.
It's such a bummer we didn't get much of Horus before getting stabbed with the Athame. He seemed really compelling
I don't want to spoil it for you, but there's some *extremely* underdiscussed stuff in The End and The Death that straightens out Horus's characterization inconsistencies. It's one of the coolest things in the series and I've literally never heard anyone talk about it. Abnett lands that plane.
Horus: What happened to Primarchs 2 and 11 and their legions?
Malcador: * *Force Chokes Horus* * There is no such thing as 2 and 11. The Emperor has decreed that such numbers don’t even exist.
Telltale Games: Horus will remember that.
"I don't think any of the Primarchs had a bad opinion of Horus."
Corvus flat out disliked Horus on every level.
Angron and Konrad just hated everyone
"Remembrancers were half politician, half journalist, half historian"
Boy I hope someone got fired for that blunder
With my unwieldly levels of procrastination, I am so glad I found your Channel as it helped me continue the stream of 40K vids to continue playing in the background so I can keep myself in the painting mood. Good Work!
Horus was at least brave enough to have the courage of his convictions. For good or ill, he at least did more walk than talk. More than he can say for his brothers. Supposedly he even knew what the emperor had in store for the astartes after the union was complete. He knew what had happened to the Thunder Warriors, and chaos told him what the emperor had stolen in order to even get off the ground.
So at least Horus was consistent.
Random Majorkill catching a stray right there
Currently listening to Horus Rising right now and it really is sad to see how he was to know what he'll become
I feel like we need a Erebus video too, fun fact: Erebus never really was Erebus.
Idea:
There’s no Erebus, and Horus creates a peaceful unification with the Interex and the Imperium, aliens included. The Emperor hears this, and commands Horus “kill all them aliens”. Horus says but one thing:
“No.”
A wholly new take on the Horus Heresy, without chaos as the motivation or catalyst for it.
awfully generic
also out of character for horus to defy his lovely father
It's simple...he's the warhammer 40k
You know I never really thought of Horus that way. That's a really cool way of looking at it. Great video
Love these videos, this is definitely my favorite one of the Primarch series, thanks a lot for the great content
Woo! Happy Belated Birthday! 🥳
Recently I find myself thinking about how Horus was the only primarch who was ever HUMAN, due to his unique awakening of his primarch stature on Cthonia.
Happy belated birthday, my dude! I think it’s appropriate that you cover the bald man himself on this unlucky day. I’ve always loved the idea of Horus and the many theories around how Horus would be if he were to be a good guy and one of the other primarch’s would’ve become the Arch-traitor, so thanks for the vid
Happy Birthday Bones! I want to say you are killing it and I hope you keep the content flowing. Congrats on the RAID sponsorship, I am curious if you have played, contacted the Tacticus WH40K game at all? Or I mean any of the other WH games in general. Maybe I am just a fan boy but I think you would be an awesome spokes person for the WH games out there...
Happy birthday man! Always brightens my day to see you put another video up
I cannot wait for whenever you do. Characters from the necrons like this. Especially zahndrekh and obyron
Happy belated Birthday dude! Love your work hope it was fun!
His interactions with Malcador also tell us a lot about his character. That fear of being replaced, not being enough. Just a tool, it truly cut him deep.
23:24 Temba's ship wasn't actually orbiting the moon of davin it was crushed into it and horus led his astartes on the moon not on the ship in orbit. The final confrontation with Temba ocured in the destroyed ship. Also sons of horus or horus himself didnt beam on to the moon, they were deployed by aircraft and droppods.
The moment you said “Raid Shado-“ it got cut of with a Tacticus ad lol
6:52 Horus was founded very early he didn’t influence Cthonia but he was there long enough to appreciate the culture! He was literally the only Primarch raised by the Emperor!
You have some lore inaccuracies!
I thought RAID ended long time ago, like Horus Heresy, but be prepared here it comes again
I think Horus needs a little more elbow grease on his reasoning for the heresy but I like the idea of him doing in spite of his father because he found out about the thunder warriors and feared him and his brothers would meet the same fate.
The American Psycho quote caught me off guard
I always pictured him as Justice League Lex Luthor but with a penchant for trying to be a social chameleon and having that stress build internally and add to the pressure he feels being War Master.
Justice League cartoon, that is.
Caught that reference comparing Horus to Patrick Bateman about 5 minutes in and now can’t stop thinking about it.
Happy birthday 🥳 love the long form content :)
Its over Horus Heresy, I have the highground!
I’d like to see that theory about Be’lakor you mentioned once. Maybe he was once someone like Horus?
Horus is my favourite primarch. He's so human but so much above at the same time
Chaos had plans for the greatest son to fall. Tzeentch had schemes to turn the most gifted son to turn against the father that wanted him to stop. Just as Tzeentch foresaw.
7:44 Good thing reality doesn't care about your wrong opinions. Hydra Dominatus
The mid video break asking how I was doing was my favorite thing today.
Nice video. I love these long videos because as a cook I usually just turn on a video and get to work so this is great. Also happy birthday 🎂
Hey mister bones I haven't seen u in half a year forgive me can't wait to watch ur videos again
Emps on the Vengeful Spirit: "Ah yes, my most favored son-"
_checks smudged writing on palm of Lightning Claw_
"...Horse Leprosy."
People are going to shit their pants when he comes back
As a histrionic vulnerable narcissist, I get why Horus did it. You do whatever you must to get that sweet validation
Horus lupercal hershe hit emperor so hard
His prepetual friend are all gone
04:50 holy crap I didn't know Horus One Of the Worst People in the Galaxy-Spanning Imperium is literally me
Warhammer is all about creation weapons and being attacked by those living weapons you made.
Necrons and C'tann, Old ones and Kroks/Eldar, humans and men of iron and the emperor and the space marines.
Horus was never going to win the war. He wasn't supposed to. If chaos actually wanted to win they would have chosen Sanguinius as their champion. Because while everyone liked Horus, everyone LOVED Sanguinius
Chaos tried, but failed, to recruit Sanguinius.
Oh neet, I share a birthday with THE Mr. Bones. Happy Birthday, love the lore overviews!
Mr. Horse lubricant was a traitor who wanted the warhammer 40k
John "Emperor" Warhammer should've expected this to happened after he named his son Horus Heresy ...smh
Love the longer Videos, appriciate the effort.
Omg, Arthur gave me a b day present. Thank you Mr bones!🎉🎉
Edit: your b day is before mine? Awesome. Happy belated b day.
I mean they didn't call themselves after their primarch but just the part Ferus liked least. Had they called themselves Gorgons instead they'd be much better off.
Horus really has the only legion named after a primarch.
Eyyyyupppp. Those inconsistencies.
One of my biggest gripes with the Horus Heresy is the Siege of Terra books.
They SIDELINED the NAMESAKE of the whole Heresy to glaze up the two bricks of Perturabo and Dorn.
Happy birthday pookie ☺️ oil up, I’ll be there soon
Oh no. Raid got our boy, not even the Emporer can save him now…
Dang man your pumping out content Nice job