When you look at the big picture regarding Trail access and government control it seems to be a big joke of hypocrisy every time I examine it! The reality is the government is totally Hippocratic because they enjoy getting all the money they can when they allow for housing developments to obscure all environmental concerns, but once the dust settles there's always very little habitat left for animals and people to enjoy. I don't believe that plants and animals are affected by hiking and biking trails nearly the same way they are by housing developments. It's a moot point once the housing is put in and all the area of land is slaughtered. Trails by definition are lines and by mathematical definition a line is a continuous connection of points ( a point is an infinitesimal location) so a line, therefore, takes up a small amount of area. Plants and animals require AREA which is consumed by housing developments not by trails. Certainly plants are not scared of bicycles and hikers, but there are not that many animals that even have the intelligence to understand what a human is other than perhaps a few mammals. These mammals adapt to their remaining environment because of their intelligence and hide while man is around. My argument is that trails do not diminish the habitat for plants and animals, but housing developments do! The government is full of Hypocrites because they want the tax money from housing developments so they can buy more employees and give them nice benefits that the public doesn't get (i.e. they are just a gang or cartel that supports themselves by taking our money and producing nothing) and really could care less about having Park land that maintains sanity for humans as well as plants and other animals. the government generates laws so they can create victimless crimes and take money from enforcement to support themselves! The whole development cycle needs to be reviewed and changed to allow for Open Spaces and more of them instead of continuously allowing housing developments to overrun the land that they posed to care about!
Thank you so much for your comment. I agree with you 100%, it's unfortunate how much land has been destroyed in order for new homes to be built in So Cal, especially here in Orange County. I would completely understand why OC Parks doesn't allow new trails to be carved but all these "unsanctioned trails" have been here for many years, way before I started mountain biking, infact they have been here before OC Parks even started governing Aliso Woods Wilderness Park. Mountain Bikers and hikers love and respect the outdoors so to limit access to exhisting trails to preserve the local habitat while the government continues to plow acres of land in order to build new housing in OC is ridiculous.
Ranger discussion at 6:50 about enforcement activities and potential solution: open/ legalize existing trails that were closed so that more trails can spread out the trail user load (Tommy's request)
Ive never seen anyone boost so high and far on the upper sections of 5 oaks. Im moving back to my condo off canyon vista and im going to get a new bike. You guys just inspired me to launch of some of the upper section.
I came across two old dudes pushing their bikes UP 5-oaks near the bottom twisties. They heard my cowbell the whole way but didn't bother moving to the side until there was visual confirmation, i.e. 10 feet away. It wasn't a close call or anything, just annoying. I'm still surprised there aren't any directional trails here in any of the OC Parks. That would solve so many problems.
It would be pretty awesome if they were to even open up like two trails like bong drop and telonics or something like that just for a change. 2 weeks ago I rode the same loop that you did and like the trails are good, but they just aren’t challenging enough for anyone above an intermediate rider, and Aliso just has so much potential for more.
Yeah I completely agree, Telonics should definitely be legal since we need another trail besides Stair Steps to drop to Laguna, I would love to see the 2nd trail be something like Birthdays, Kindergarten or Smoothies open since there's nothing gnarly open on that side of the park.
Hey Tommy, props for staying cool during all of this. It would have been so easy for somebody to try to turn it around on the ranger and try to villianize them for all the internet to see, which seems is like what usually happens, but they are just doing their job. Where I am from nature reserves are completely off limit for bikes, and I never have even thought of it, but it looks a lot more complicated for you guys, so I guess I am not as exposed to this type of issue as much. Still, a little bit of education goes a long way, and through these videos of showing your experience you have educated a lot of people on how to avoid your predicament while still keeping people's reputation and feelings in tact.
Thank you very much, obviously I wasn't mad a few weeks ago getting a ticket and I absolutely don't agree on the reasons why these trails are deemed "illegal" but being a prick or rude to the Rangers isn't the answer. At the end of the day they are just doing their job. I think both sides have solid points and I just hope we can find a solution some where in the middle because at the end of the day both sides love the outdoors and we want to preserve the park and trails.
Glad you were able to talk to them, I think it would be pretty easy to come up with a fair compromise to get more trails opened up. Like get rid of Mentally Sensitive or make it hiking only and open up Telonics or Kindergarten as a bikes only trail. If you have a chance can you talk about how you started your businesses in one of your vids? I love hearing those types of stories.
Yeah they definitely need to have Telonics legal, and Birthdays or Smoothies would be another great trail that needs to open. As far as talking about my businesses l feel weird talking in front of the camera especially about myself. I used to speak in front of Jr High kids at my church for their graduation about my life and all the paths that I have taken (right and wrong). That was always terrifying but all the positive feedback was why I kept coming back.
Keep up the good work man. I would feel weird talking about myself on camera too so I completely understand. If I can get out of work early enough I'll try to make it to that meeting next week.
I personally wouldn't want any trails closed but the rangers suggested a trade-off. All I am saying if that was the only option than I would like to see them open some gnarly trails and close 1-2 beginner/ Intermittent trails so there are more of a mix trails
Hey Tommy I will be in so cal later this month and bringing my bike. I’m no where near your groups level but prefer to ride with a group for safety etc.. anyway to hook up with you guys for Aliso woods if you don’t mind a slow rider tagging along.
I only ride Aliso once a month, and my schedule is pretty tight, hit me up as it gets closer, if I can't make it I will do my best to find someone to guide you around.
Great vid Tommy! 😊 I just want to ask if you are using a Renthal carbon handlebar and stem? Thanks! Ride safe and God bless you and your Family always =)
Yeah I have the rental carbon bars and stem. They are fine but my next bike I will use different bar and stem. I really like the chromag I have it on my DH bike and the rise and upsweep is perfect for me.
@@TommyHuynh okay. I just asked because I have not had a carbon bar and stem and I amcurious about the difference it makes when riding. You are planning on getting a new bike? Wonder what would it be. 😀
@@mtbheaven6620 yeah for sure, they were actually the same 2 rangers that ticketed me a few weeks back. They are super cool and at the end of the day they are just doing their job. I completely disagree about all the trails being illegal but I do see some of their points. I just really hope we can all come to a good resolution and hopefully get some trails open
The climbs are pretty steep but the DH is pretty worth it. There's 2 options: most take "Cholla" which is short, steep and very technical. The other option is to climb "Mathis" it's much longer, not as steep but puts you up closer to top of the world. On this day I climbed up 5 Oaks once. Up Cholla twice and up Mathis once (to get to Car Wreck). The ride was 13.6 miles and 2,266 ft of climbing.
No it's not the government, it's an organization called OC Parks that protects Aliso Woods. The trails in question are not "illegal" they are just "not sanctioned". There are a few "sanctioned" mountain biking trails in Aliso Woods but there are also "unsanctioned" trails which are steeper and more technical. OC Parks argument is by riding the trails we are hurting the natural habitat. My argument is the trails are already cut in, some for 15+ years, mountain bikers love and respect the outdoors and we wouldn't want to destroy any natural habitat. I completely agree that we shouldn't be going out and carving new trails but I definitely think that they need to open up some of the exhisting "unsanctioned" trails so it will spread out all the riders and hikers and make it safer for everyone.
"You're not making the rules you're just enforcing them" is kinda bullshit. The laws wouldn't exist (practically) if they didn't enforce them. They do have a choice whether or not to enforce those laws
I get what you're saying, we actually talked about that because I have met so many rangers before heading down telonics and other "non sanctioned" trails and the Rangers never ticketed me.
I'm a mountain biker Have been for many years love the sport till death but Nature is first. and no sir Nature is not Disneyland bro lol that is a disrespectful comparison we need to lose that mentality to truly respect what she Gives us nature is not, a theme park she is a Living Organism that includes all life I do get what your saying but we need to respect her more. thees days there are so many mountain bikers far more compared to back in the day.. for anything more than XC or AM we Have Bike Parks to go to Be thankful for that... but Ultimately yes every community that Has More than a Hand full of mountain bikers should have a Few Legal Lines but built by Mindful trail builders that have Knowledge of the Local habitat.. no disrespect intended bro..
Yes you make good points, but I don't think you truly understand what's happening at our local park. The issue is that some of these "unsanctioned" trails have been here BEFORE the OC Parks (the organization) that takes care of the park. And although these trails have been "unsanctioned" since OC Parks took over the Rangers always looked the other way but recently there was a fire and since then there have been new Rangers assigned to Aliso Woods. It is fair to say that the new Rangers are enforcing the "unsanctioned trails". I would completely understand if the fire was started by mountain bikers but it wasn't. It was started by some kid who was arrested. I would also understand if the closed trails were in the fire area but they are not. Now that so many trails are closed there is so much traffic between hikers and bikers and the few trails that are open it is making it more dangerous for everyone.
oh sounds like the new rangers are a bit power hungry yeah that's no good people can get hurt. and if the trails are already there should not be much of a problem to allow bikes to use them making both Mountain bikers and Hikers happy and safer.. sorry about that man
@@mountaingoat8788 yeah it kind of sucks. I love and respect the outdoors and I can honestly say that 99.9% mountain bikers are the same way. I would never want to harm the environment just to have a good time in the bike. I don't endorse carving new illegal trails. These trails have been here way before I started mountain biking and I just hope that OC Parks, mountain bikers and hikers can all can come to a happy medium on everything.
When you look at the big picture regarding Trail access and government control it seems to be a big joke of hypocrisy every time I examine it! The reality is the government is totally Hippocratic because they enjoy getting all the money they can when they allow for housing developments to obscure all environmental concerns, but once the dust settles there's always very little habitat left for animals and people to enjoy. I don't believe that plants and animals are affected by hiking and biking trails nearly the same way they are by housing developments. It's a moot point once the housing is put in and all the area of land is slaughtered. Trails by definition are lines and by mathematical definition a line is a continuous connection of points ( a point is an infinitesimal location) so a line, therefore, takes up a small amount of area. Plants and animals require AREA which is consumed by housing developments not by trails. Certainly plants are not scared of bicycles and hikers, but there are not that many animals that even have the intelligence to understand what a human is other than perhaps a few mammals. These mammals adapt to their remaining environment because of their intelligence and hide while man is around. My argument is that trails do not diminish the habitat for plants and animals, but housing developments do! The government is full of Hypocrites because they want the tax money from housing developments so they can buy more employees and give them nice benefits that the public doesn't get (i.e. they are just a gang or cartel that supports themselves by taking our money and producing nothing) and really could care less about having Park land that maintains sanity for humans as well as plants and other animals. the government generates laws so they can create victimless crimes and take money from enforcement to support themselves! The whole development cycle needs to be reviewed and changed to allow for Open Spaces and more of them instead of continuously allowing housing developments to overrun the land that they posed to care about!
Thank you so much for your comment. I agree with you 100%, it's unfortunate how much land has been destroyed in order for new homes to be built in So Cal, especially here in Orange County. I would completely understand why OC Parks doesn't allow new trails to be carved but all these "unsanctioned trails" have been here for many years, way before I started mountain biking, infact they have been here before OC Parks even started governing Aliso Woods Wilderness Park. Mountain Bikers and hikers love and respect the outdoors so to limit access to exhisting trails to preserve the local habitat while the government continues to plow acres of land in order to build new housing in OC is ridiculous.
Ranger discussion at 6:50 about enforcement activities and potential solution: open/ legalize existing trails that were closed so that more trails can spread out the trail user load (Tommy's request)
Tommy Huynh You're welcome Tommy... I've been continuing to enjoy a variety of your riding videos :-)
Ive never seen anyone boost so high and far on the upper sections of 5 oaks. Im moving back to my condo off canyon vista and im going to get a new bike. You guys just inspired me to launch of some of the upper section.
Hahahahaha yeah 5 Oaks is super fun 🤘
Nice to see everyone getting along! But even more stoked to here you got to shred twice in a week!! Yewwww!!!!
Hahahaha yes it was awesome! Too bad you are still up North, hit me up when you get back so we can do another session
I came across two old dudes pushing their bikes UP 5-oaks near the bottom twisties. They heard my cowbell the whole way but didn't bother moving to the side until there was visual confirmation, i.e. 10 feet away. It wasn't a close call or anything, just annoying. I'm still surprised there aren't any directional trails here in any of the OC Parks. That would solve so many problems.
Yeah I completely agree 💯
It would be pretty awesome if they were to even open up like two trails like bong drop and telonics or something like that just for a change. 2 weeks ago I rode the same loop that you did and like the trails are good, but they just aren’t challenging enough for anyone above an intermediate rider, and Aliso just has so much potential for more.
Yeah I completely agree, Telonics should definitely be legal since we need another trail besides Stair Steps to drop to Laguna, I would love to see the 2nd trail be something like Birthdays, Kindergarten or Smoothies open since there's nothing gnarly open on that side of the park.
Hey Tommy, props for staying cool during all of this. It would have been so easy for somebody to try to turn it around on the ranger and try to villianize them for all the internet to see, which seems is like what usually happens, but they are just doing their job. Where I am from nature reserves are completely off limit for bikes, and I never have even thought of it, but it looks a lot more complicated for you guys, so I guess I am not as exposed to this type of issue as much. Still, a little bit of education goes a long way, and through these videos of showing your experience you have educated a lot of people on how to avoid your predicament while still keeping people's reputation and feelings in tact.
Thank you very much, obviously I wasn't mad a few weeks ago getting a ticket and I absolutely don't agree on the reasons why these trails are deemed "illegal" but being a prick or rude to the Rangers isn't the answer. At the end of the day they are just doing their job. I think both sides have solid points and I just hope we can find a solution some where in the middle because at the end of the day both sides love the outdoors and we want to preserve the park and trails.
Glad you were able to talk to them, I think it would be pretty easy to come up with a fair compromise to get more trails opened up. Like get rid of Mentally Sensitive or make it hiking only and open up Telonics or Kindergarten as a bikes only trail. If you have a chance can you talk about how you started your businesses in one of your vids? I love hearing those types of stories.
Yeah they definitely need to have Telonics legal, and Birthdays or Smoothies would be another great trail that needs to open. As far as talking about my businesses l feel weird talking in front of the camera especially about myself. I used to speak in front of Jr High kids at my church for their graduation about my life and all the paths that I have taken (right and wrong). That was always terrifying but all the positive feedback was why I kept coming back.
Keep up the good work man. I would feel weird talking about myself on camera too so I completely understand. If I can get out of work early enough I'll try to make it to that meeting next week.
talk to them about the trails in mount ashland and how creating legit mountain bike trails will decrease illegal building
@@jd0614 yeah I completely agree
What begginer trails would you want to be closed? I like all the trails, and I don't want them closed.
I personally wouldn't want any trails closed but the rangers suggested a trade-off. All I am saying if that was the only option than I would like to see them open some gnarly trails and close 1-2 beginner/ Intermittent trails so there are more of a mix trails
Hey Tommy I will be in so cal later this month and bringing my bike. I’m no where near your groups level but prefer to ride with a group for safety etc.. anyway to hook up with you guys for Aliso woods if you don’t mind a slow rider tagging along.
I only ride Aliso once a month, and my schedule is pretty tight, hit me up as it gets closer, if I can't make it I will do my best to find someone to guide you around.
Great vid Tommy! 😊 I just want to ask if you are using a Renthal carbon handlebar and stem? Thanks! Ride safe and God bless you and your Family always =)
Yeah I have the rental carbon bars and stem. They are fine but my next bike I will use different bar and stem. I really like the chromag I have it on my DH bike and the rise and upsweep is perfect for me.
@@TommyHuynh okay. I just asked because I have not had a carbon bar and stem and I amcurious about the difference it makes when riding. You are planning on getting a new bike? Wonder what would it be. 😀
@@BengLang84 the bars are carbon but not the stem. I'm not building a new bike any time soon. Maybe next year
@@TommyHuynh okay. I did not knownthat tou can use an alloy stem on a carbon bar. I am excited to see what your new bike build would be. 😀
Tommy, we ride Levos and don’t go there anymore. ☹️
Yeah that's really unfortunate. I don't ride e bikes but I honestly have no idea why it's illegal or why so many people are against it.
I rode my ebike there and those exact rangers on this vid told me I can't anymore after that, so now I only take my regular mountain bike.
@@jta00r1 that really sucks.
Dang, hikers all over! Weekdays alot better to ride?
Yeah weekdays are way less crowded.
@@TommyHuynh glad the rangers are having a open dialogue with you. It shows they are willing to listen...
@@mtbheaven6620 yeah for sure, they were actually the same 2 rangers that ticketed me a few weeks back. They are super cool and at the end of the day they are just doing their job. I completely disagree about all the trails being illegal but I do see some of their points. I just really hope we can all come to a good resolution and hopefully get some trails open
Nice riding! What's the climb like back up to the top of those trails?
The climbs are pretty steep but the DH is pretty worth it. There's 2 options: most take "Cholla" which is short, steep and very technical. The other option is to climb "Mathis" it's much longer, not as steep but puts you up closer to top of the world. On this day I climbed up 5 Oaks once. Up Cholla twice and up Mathis once (to get to Car Wreck). The ride was 13.6 miles and 2,266 ft of climbing.
🤘🏻SoCal!!
For sure 🤘
How about having dedicated mtb trails?
Yes that would be ideal! I would love for them to make certain trails hikers only and certain trails bikers only, keep everyone happy and safe.
I’m not up to speed on the issue, is the government saying MTB trails affect wildlife? That’s nuts!
No it's not the government, it's an organization called OC Parks that protects Aliso Woods. The trails in question are not "illegal" they are just "not sanctioned". There are a few "sanctioned" mountain biking trails in Aliso Woods but there are also "unsanctioned" trails which are steeper and more technical. OC Parks argument is by riding the trails we are hurting the natural habitat. My argument is the trails are already cut in, some for 15+ years, mountain bikers love and respect the outdoors and we wouldn't want to destroy any natural habitat. I completely agree that we shouldn't be going out and carving new trails but I definitely think that they need to open up some of the exhisting "unsanctioned" trails so it will spread out all the riders and hikers and make it safer for everyone.
Tommy Huynh - Thanks for the clarification.
and who would decide which trails are for hikers and which are for bikers? How about we learn to share before someone else decides for us.
Right now we are just trying to get some trails open for bikers and hikers to share
"You're not making the rules you're just enforcing them" is kinda bullshit. The laws wouldn't exist (practically) if they didn't enforce them. They do have a choice whether or not to enforce those laws
I get what you're saying, we actually talked about that because I have met so many rangers before heading down telonics and other "non sanctioned" trails and the Rangers never ticketed me.
@13:19, waddaFuk..move to the right! You don't have to be a MTBer to understand that..it's comma courtesy traffic law
Lizards to Pac-Man should be legal.
Yes, actually no trails should be illegal
I'm a mountain biker Have been for many years love the sport till death but Nature is first. and no sir Nature is not Disneyland bro lol that is a disrespectful comparison we need to lose that mentality to truly respect what she Gives us nature is not, a theme park she is a Living Organism that includes all life I do get what your saying but we need to respect her more. thees days there are so many mountain bikers far more compared to back in the day.. for anything more than XC or AM we Have Bike Parks to go to Be thankful for that... but Ultimately yes every community that Has More than a Hand full of mountain bikers should have a Few Legal Lines but built by Mindful trail builders that have Knowledge of the Local habitat.. no disrespect intended bro..
Yes you make good points, but I don't think you truly understand what's happening at our local park. The issue is that some of these "unsanctioned" trails have been here BEFORE the OC Parks (the organization) that takes care of the park. And although these trails have been "unsanctioned" since OC Parks took over the Rangers always looked the other way but recently there was a fire and since then there have been new Rangers assigned to Aliso Woods. It is fair to say that the new Rangers are enforcing the "unsanctioned trails". I would completely understand if the fire was started by mountain bikers but it wasn't. It was started by some kid who was arrested. I would also understand if the closed trails were in the fire area but they are not. Now that so many trails are closed there is so much traffic between hikers and bikers and the few trails that are open it is making it more dangerous for everyone.
oh sounds like the new rangers are a bit power hungry yeah that's no good people can get hurt. and if the trails are already there should not be much of a problem to allow bikes to use them making both Mountain bikers and Hikers happy and safer.. sorry about that man
@@mountaingoat8788 no problem at all, it's a little complicated. The new rangers are actually cool but I don't agree with them at all.
yeah I'm starting to Notice other MTB youtubers from Laguna Talk about this. I Hope it gets better for you guys..
@@mountaingoat8788 yeah it kind of sucks. I love and respect the outdoors and I can honestly say that 99.9% mountain bikers are the same way. I would never want to harm the environment just to have a good time in the bike. I don't endorse carving new illegal trails. These trails have been here way before I started mountain biking and I just hope that OC Parks, mountain bikers and hikers can all can come to a happy medium on everything.