Friends, our world is in crisis. This is a multidisciplinary podcast, where I'm learning along with the viewers on how the various pieces fit together. Our living systems are all connected, influencing each other, co-evolving…energy, biosphere, human enterprise, war, egos, primal urges, in-groups, identity, psychology, ecology etc. - we cannot successfully address any of this in piecemeal. These issues will ALL be impacted - and in dramatic fashion, in the non-trivial event of the Russia/NATO situation in Ukraine expanding beyond a regional conflict. None of the pathways forward are good, but more people need to have a clear eyed, rational understanding of the risks and context to make better decisions. In short, talking about international military conflicts is not an asterisk or a side note - it is a part of the whole. The Ukraine situation is incredibly complex and difficult and (imo) extremely dangerous. The comments on this thread are not completely surprising, but...surprising. I'll have a Frankly next week with some thoughts and integration. Here, I am pinning this comment as -for those unaware - there is (always) a link for show notes and references in the RUclips description and on our website: www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/114-chuck-watson (scroll below the video for links and time stamps). Additionally, Chuck Watson sent me a contextual note on the issue of 'casualties': linked here: static1.squarespace.com/static/61d5bc2bb737636144dc55d0/t/65f5e4579307603d324696b2/1710613591694/Chuck+Watson+Clarification+on+Casualties.pdf I love my job despite its socially Sisyphean nature. I feel like I am playing a role in facilitating societal dialogue not only on a plethora of key, underrecognized societal issues, but also on their interrelationships. I have a staff of 3 and we are doing the best we can to scale functionality given tight timelines, nuance and high standards. The truth is, that truth is not a democracy. War in these times is only a choice between degrees of losing. ~Peace, Nate
Oh, Nate, you should have added a warning that by watching this episode one will be exposed to mis- and disinformation. I've lived as a neighbor to Soviet Union/Russia for more than 50 years, had some Russian-origin friends even, and my views of Russia and their "modus operandi" differs slightly from this dude's... He obviously talks BS on several occasions, in my opinion. What he is most right about is that the Ukraine war is a resources war. 2/3 of the EU's "critical minerals" can be found in Ukraine. Putin knows the value of natural resources. Including those millions of hectares of fertile agricultural land in Ukraine.
I appreciate all you do, Nate, and I really value the variety of guests you invite on this podcast. Thank you for your hard work, grounded interview style, integrity, wisdom, and for the fact that you care about ALL beings, not just the humans. You are doing such important work!
These sort of topics need 10 plus hours to be done right. I think your show should stick with what it's good at. A 1 hour show with a whole lot of unsourced claims, mixed with multiple future predictions doesn't do anybody any good. I do not trust that guy.
Im one of the people who was furious listening to this. I understand Ukraine are losing and it appears Nato cannot match Russias firepower, and the Ukrainian casualties are much worse than reported. Because Chuck gets this right does not mean he is providing a balanced view. He so obviously is not. With his talks the not so subtle message is the West are unbalanced and irrational and Russia is measured. Of course, the opposite is true (who is threatening who with nukes). There are only terrible options for the West, none of which are our fault, despite what Chuck would have us believe. The best way to address this is to have someone on who does tell it like it is without this weird anti-western pro-russian bias so prevalent in the collapse-aware communities.
It is easy to resolve geopolitical issues when both sides negotiate in good faith. The UK and the US never negotiate in good faith, never have, never will.
True, but I think both Kiev and Moscow have long since decided that the pre-2014 border is simply not tenable as a long-term border (with continued tense relations). Kiev wants it changed too, they wanted to use this war both to leapfrog their way into the EU & NATO, and to push the border a decent bit east to grab some more Russian land - with the tacit approval of Uncle Sam, of course. But they can't afford to say this quite openly, because the war is dressed up as being (for them) "only a self-defence war". Now this strategy has seriously backfired and Ukra-NATO gets to pay the price.
It seems the the EU are Vassals of the USA, yet the leaders seem blind to this reality. In the meantime, the US is taking the EU down. Can no one observe what's happening? Look at Germany if you need evidence. The US wants NO COMPETITION.
@@Daniel_Martin777 As someone who grew up at the end of the Cold War, I find it alarming how easily the talk goes to “nukes” nowadays. We used to understand that such thoughts were extreme. Now they are thrown about far too casually. For example, you do realise that whether “ Portugal and Greece will not be nuked” is irrelevant, if the unthinkable actually happens? And why? Yes?
@@AIainMConnachie I’ll explain: when, 80 years later, there are German tanks with Nazi crosses in the Donbass again, any normal person will decide that crazy psychopaths live in the West.
He encouraged the torture in Abu Graib..Making light of it saying he stood at his desk for many hours at a time amongst other stories of encouragement.
U said it all but don't forget his chums Cheney and the Bush criminal family. U see pictures way back to Nixon and before with Rumsfelds ugly mug in the background as he climbed the slimy pole to reach his level of incompetence.
It is: 500,000 killed in action. 1.500.000 injured. 70.000 amputees. This does not include Ukrainian colateral damage. It is a shame to the whole of humanity, and specifically to the Western Cabal that provoced it.
@@vasilispatsalidis5683 Prove 500,000 Ukrainians KIA. I call BS. That is a fabricated number by Russian propaganda. And " the Western Cabal" did not surprise attack, invade and annex Ukraine. Putin and Russia did. The blood is on *your* hands.
Seeing that there are reasonable people like you in the West gives me hope for the future of humanity. Warm greetings from Saint Petersburg/Russian Federation!
I have vital interest in this conflict and from a very beginning i watch it carefully trying to cut thru propaganda and missinformation coming from the both sides of the conflict. I am watching Chuck’s podcast for the very first time, but on a basis what i have learned so far, i would consider his view and commentary as credible and accurate.
I’m gonna enjoy updating you guys. Someone on the ground in Kharkov said that early this morning, people were still exiting Kharkov, using all lanes. No lanes were open for incoming!!
Set up Europeans, and European nations against each other. The "playbook" of the "rimlands" (geopolitics) Great Britain and the USA for more than 100 years. Read Mackinder (Pivot of History/1904) and Brzinzki's analysis of 1997. Even Churchill was honest enough to admit that those who wish to understand the present, should analyze the past.
@@achenarmyst2156 Snyder is an intelligent historian, but during this war (like so many others) he has totally sided with the US neo-cons. And it's true that both Washington and London love to have their wars fought thousands of miles away from their own shores, preferably by some proxies.
Problem for ordinary citizens now, is that responsible politicians and their mainstream media platforms no longer says what's really going on. Yes, they saying what they want us all to believe 😢
No Poland does not nor ANY of the neighbouring countries. The people who live in these areas should decide and also where the Borders should be for security of all. No free for all. Poland has much of old German lands too and should remember that. Anyway Poland is looking for past glories and believes the West will yet again beat up the jungle. At the end of the day, it's about resources and the West obtains them by devilish means. I can tell you that the West will not 🚫 NOT succeed.
Ukraine's much-hyped up attacks on Russian ships are two-thirds British jobs but presented as "only Ukrainian" for propaganda reasons. Britain has been assisting with mission planning, recon, missiles, logistical support - and in some cases (like the troop transport ship Moskva a month into the war) it was most likely really a British sub doing the job, but presented as a Ukro strike. Britain itself didn't get around to sinking a single Russian or Soviet navy vessel for a hundred years between 1920 and 2021, despite seeing the Russians as a primary enemy for nearly all that time - the vicarious glee from many Britons over "Ukraine taking out Russian ships" is very telling. Of course Russia knows the depth of the UK's involvement, but Moscow and London are playing diplomatic hide-and-seek over this for political reasons. Objectively speaking, Britain is at war with Russia and has been so for most of these two years.
First of all, war is bad. So is unjustified and vindictive aggression. That being said, situations which lead up to war and acts of aggression are often not as simple as they are often made to seem. For instance, when Russia first attacked Ukraine, a common media meme immediately started flying around and could be heard on everyone's lips: "Russia bad, NATO/West/Ukraine good." When recognizing the same meme on everyone's lips, it's always a good idea to dig a bit deeper to see if there's more to the story than is suggested by the meme that's being broadcast. In this case, one did not have to dig very deeply to be able to listen to university and other reputable lecturers who addressed the history of the complex eastern Ukraine - western Russia border dispute: which dates back at least to 1991, and is intricately tied to the fall of the USSR, the Soviet's "peace" agreement with the Western powers, and NATO's existential threat to the newly developing Russian government. What became crystal clear after this brief, historical study was made, is that Russia was no more the bad guy insisted on by the media meme, than the USA was the bad guy in the 1960s when we didn't want Soviet missiles aimed at Florida from the Soviet base in Cuba. And in the same way that the USA threatened the Soviets with war if the Soviets set up a cuban missile base so close to our home, at least since 2014 Russia has been threatening the West that they would reclaim the Eastern lands of Ukraine if the West continued to set up NATO bases close to the Russian border. But, in spite of this Russian threat, the West did continue to increase its NATO bases along Russia's western border, with the result that Russia finally acted good on its threat by invading eastern Ukraine. This, apparently, surprised only the uninformed. Regarding the meme, the West/NATO/Ukraine were no more the good guys claimed by the meme, than any other treaty-breaking group of people: and treaty-breaking is what moving NATO bases along the Eastern European/Ukrainian-Russian border did to the 1991 treaty that the West had signed with Russia, promising not to set up NATO bases too close to Russia's border. Learning this little bit about the - even more complex than what's been noted here - history of this Russian - Ukrainian war tempered my rush to condemnation of only one of the several parties involved. But, like this episode's guest, trying to share the details of the back story to Russia's invasion of Ukraine with my very liberal and very progressive friends, caused them to loudly and aggressively silence any conversation that countered their uninformed belief in the truth of the meme's simplistic theme. Thus began my two year period of muteness on this issue: along with the realization of - among many other things - how easily group think can be hoisted upon an otherwise educated and thoughtful group of people.
I stopped reading at your "complex border issue". I remember the situation at Maidan, Ukraine 2014. It was a CIA and and the US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland orchestrated scenario which led to the situation today! It was planned and the intent was to bring Russia to it's knees, exchange Putin for a US-friendly guy, and break up Russia, the world's largest country with eleven time zones, into smaller pieces, just like US did with the former country of Yugoslavia in Europe! And what is the US doing now to Europe! Forcing it to become a US proxy in war against Russia, hoping many EU leaders will send their armies to Ukraine to become a cannon fodder, and then when enough Europeans have been slaughtered the ppl will be mad at the EU leadership in Brussels and one country after the other will do a Brexit, just like Britain did, and b/f you know it, the US has succeeded to break up the whole European Union, 530 million ppl, into small countries! Problem solved, no more big military or economic powers to threaten the US! Do you get it now???
All that and you fail to mention some basics. USA literally installed Nazis in the Kiev government in 2014. USA literally helped set up the Odessa Massacre on May 2nd 2014, to get the civil war going. Burning dozens of ethnic Russians alive. Keep your watered down liberal whitewash to yourself.
Nate can you bring in economist/historian michael hudson, he has vast knowledge of history and economics, he has talked with steve keen a few times, he will make things realy clear. I hope to see michael someday on youre show!
@@Hexanitrobenzene yeah people need to listen to Michael Hudson and the depth of what he is talking about, I thought daniel schmachtenberger was one of the only few that understood what we are doing at this moment, but Michael Hudson not only tells what we are doing but he explains the spells behind propaganda and double speak very well, and is fascinating. I honestly would recommend everyone to listen to him and invite him on podcasts, I almost don't see a more important speaker/historian than him. People recommend all kinds of people but Hudson has to get to main stream. Unbelievable that people like him and Daniel and a few others exist but are underappreciated or not known at all.
@@beingnonbeingincludesexistence It's been a while since I myself have listened to Hudson... He was talking about the history of debt sometime in 2016, I guess.
I would really, really like to hear Chuck's estimate on the actual death toll in Palestine. The numbers seem incredibly low based on the scale of devastation. I'd love to hear an actual expert's estimate on this who isn't tied to big media.
30ish thousand d ad are the only ones who have been officially documented. There's likely many more unmarked graves, people buried under rubble, secret mass graves like one recently found in a hospital yard....
Nate, the best objective discussion of this war in terms of what’s happening on the ground and what we don’t know is from “Perun” on RUclips. 1 hour PowerPoint from an Australian military economist who started his channel to play video games.
A good speaker is not one who says the things we want to hear. Chuck treads the path of analysis with caution and speaks from an informed standpoint. Those demanding his qualifications are mistaken. The only qualification needed is to be a human b3ing with an interest in human-interest issues. Thanks Nate. You are a very fair discussant.
Truly remarkable analysis from Chuck Watson, an ethical and knowledgeable man of truth, integrity, courage and pragmatism. Sobering update indeed. « Seeing what the underlying motives are. » His perspective is correct. Merci. Paris 🙏🏼🕯🕯🙏🏼
I look at whatever Chuck says with a big question mark. I have listend to Chuck 4-5hrs through this podcast. How do I know to have my doubts? Bc I am from Iran and everything he says about Iran is either wrong or heavily distorted view. So let's not draw any conclusions here just based on his remarks.
Check out The Duran and Glenn Diesen, if you haven't seen them before. But yes, there is a severe media blockage against voices that are able to think outside of the simple quasi-moralizing box scheme presented by G-NATO7 and their supporters.
Hi, if you are American, you should also sent the duck message to your government. Strongly tell them to talk more about ducks and less about F16's and tanks.... we get was we vote for.
@Corrie-fd9ww My parents have a fruit garden close to a lake / large pond. When ripe apples fall from trees, ducks come to eat them. They can't start on a whole apple, but once wasps have broken the skin, it's easy for a duck s bill b to take m apart. They love it, fly straight into the garden when mum treows cut damaged apples on the lawn
I think the German government is internally rifted over this war. Miss Beerbock (FM) is a gung-ho neo-con, sort of, she's quite out and open about how "Russia must be beaten at all costs" and happy to serve the US. Scholz and Pistorius are more cautious and they have actually been blocking or slow-walking the delivery of support, weapons etc to Ukraine several times - even support from other EU coutries. I think they have realized, more or less, that Kiev has lost this in military terms, and that it's important for Germany not to get pulled in too deep - but they can't afford to be out and proud about this, about their efforts to slow down and pour cold water on the fire, because of German and EU loyalty to the US.
I respectfully disagree. 1) This is NOT a "civil war", it is an international conflict. Ukraine had been acknowleged by the whole world, wtihin the borders of 1991 If you put under questions existing borders, you will create chaos everywhere in the world! 2) As a Nation, Ukraine is far older than the US itself. 3) Russia is not the victim here! It is an aggressive empire, bullying ist neighbours, spreading oligarchy everywhere. 4) Dear Nate, I listen your podcast quite regularly, and I believe in your honesty. But this time you get it wrong. 5) As native German, I deeply disagree with Chuck when he says that Germans still want revenge for WW2. No we don't. And no one is more pro-Russian than neo-fascist and pro-Trump minded parties like the AfD.
I agree. I think that the guest is not truly sincere and clearly shows bias towards Russia. The topic today should be the possible threat of Nuclear war with all of its implications for society and the ecology of the entire planet. One siding this vs the other just increases tribalism.
Germany ran to the ICJ to dispute the horrors in Gaza. This can only be explained also by some attempt to deal with the WW2 after effects. You haven't had enough already?
You can tell a lot about a man by his friends. Tuckers interview was telling. Tucker desparately wanted to cast Putin as a kindred spirit, insead the interview showed how far apart evangelical christians, and other freedom loving MAGAS actually are from the zero freedom Russian federation. Yet because Putin "appeals" to their traditionalist values of family, religion, etc they ignore he is the exact opposite. The "family" is about providing meat for the Russian emipire. The russian religion is run by the state, for the state!
My simplist explanation: While Germany suffers from the absence of a genuine home-grown Jewish community, there is still is a very strong Israel-Lobby, which made common cause with (Western) German establishment since the 1950s. -- Just imagine the US with AIPAC twice as strong, but no traditional liberal Jewish community. --
Just run into this channel...very fine, neutral analysis. It's reassuring to see the catalog of channels that dedicate to unbiased discussions and analysis, growing bigger and bigger. I'll recommend this to friends and family. Please keep up the good work, man!
31:33 Ok Nate, I've been a long time listener and love your work, but you absolutely *need* to fact check this yourself. Your guest just said that Poles are saying that once Polish soldiers are in Ukraine they will never leave, because "it's our land, our people". I beg you, please search for any source of this and reconsider if you still trust this person. I am a Pole and *nobody* says that here. Nobody here in Poland thinks of western Ukraine as "our land". This kind of logic is a logic that drives Putin, but nobody in Poland thinks this way.
The right side of the political scene may been thinking about that some time ago... There is even OKO.Press article "Zagrywki z rozbiorami" about that...
I completely agree with you. I've listened to all the Great Simplification podcasts, and this is the first one I can remember, where I think he has either a bad guest or a vast majority of other sources are wrong. But even common sense can catch this guy. His comment that Russia is only using North Korean shells is because they're saving all their good stuff for NATO! I'm calling BS on that. And ofc their saving lots of things, take nukes for example, but they used up the storage they were willing to part with, that's why they started using Iranian drones and NK shells.
I strongly doubt that Poland as a member of the EU would just go and take the north west of Ukraine. Really would like to hear/see sources for that statement.
Hi, Nate I like your podcast. Usually you have people here who seem to well informed and can show some research to support their claims. I always assume that I can be under informed, or misinformed. @30:54 This guy makes some outrageous claims about Polish forces planning to move our forces into Ukraine and apparently having some forces already there and not planning to leave.... Where is any evidence for that except for Putin's propaganda ?
Chuck's claims that Poland is preparing to take over Western Ukraine and may already have troops on the ground here, are pretty wild. I am Polish, follow the conflict from Polish perspective pretty closely, and there isn't a hint in the media of anything like it - apart from one article from TASS last year, but they of course have a vested interest in saying so. Furthermore, I would be shocked by anyone in Polish political class being capable of such boldness. Our politicians are your typical democratically elected representatives - lacking vision and initiative, focusing on putting out immediate fires while preserving their base of votes for the next election. Huge and extremely risky moves are simply not in their blood. Nowhere in the interview does Chuck cite his sources on this matter. It's a shame Nate didn't press on this, because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - or at least some evidence, whereas in this case, Chuck provided none.
Polish gov't is playing clever game fooling Ukraine and the rest of the world. Ukraine, the current gov't, gave polish citizens enormous rights and privileges (Google it)
Poland called for an escalation of the conflict with Russia Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said that the West should not be afraid to take extreme steps, not excluding the introduction of NATO forces into Ukraine. “The presence of NATO troops in Ukraine is not unthinkable, “because the point is that Putin is afraid, not we are afraid of Putin,” said the head of the diplomatic department.
I would very much like to hear Mr Watson respond to what Martti J. Kari (former intelligence colonel in the Finnish Defence Forces) has to say about Russia. Remember, the Finns have been very clear about their neutrality for many years. It is only the Ukraine conflict that changed this.
"The Polish hate the Ukrainians only slightly less than they hate the Russians" - what an absolutely bizarre statement. The Polish have taken millions of refugees, far more than any other country have. As a regular visitor to Krakow, i see the support him first hand. Chuck Wilson has this weird pro-putin stance that's so common in the systems dynamics community. Its always made me squirm.
On the other hand thousands of Polish people stand on the border scaring incoming Ukrainian refugees with fake air raid sirens and physically blocking Ukrainian exports.
@@triplikeido75 Someone actually recommended this podcast and within five minutes he calls the conflict (invasion) in Ukraine a "Civil war" and states that "Leaving aside the issue as to whether the invasion is right or wrong doesn't matter". Rubbish, avoiding the fundemental reason why we're in this proxy war in the first place is because Russia are invading an independent country. Had this not had happened, we wouldn't be in the proxy war. Ergo, his whole argument is based on avoiding one point which is critical to the debate. Won't be spending any longer here.
First guest I’ve been unimpressed with. I’m no war monger and hope for deescalation but I all I heard here was a lot of sympathy towards Russias point of view. Putin is an ex KGB tyrant who wants to constantly expand russias boarders . As simple as that. I’m from the UK and last year had a young brother and sister from the Ukraine working for me for a few months. They were pretty unimpressed with Putin sympathisers. Not to mention abandoning NATO and Ukraine seem to be the one thing that unite the hard left and the hard right . Like trump and his clan. Of course all countries have their own interest but the idea that European nations were looking for a conflict on their doorstep is nonsense . Governments have been shrinking armies while desperately trying to shore up welfare states, pensions etc. We weren’t and arnt ready for conflict. Showing weakness and division to Putin is exactly what he wants . He’d love trump back in power and there seemed to my mind a lot of sympathy for Putins wishes within this discussion. I also dislike the notion that if you want to stand up to a tyrant you’re somehow bellicose & desperate for a nuclear exchange. Respect as always to Nate for what he does. Just can’t get on board fully with these ideas here.
No, it's never "as simple as that". Chuck is not a "Putin sympathiser" by any stretch of the imagination; he's simply trying to explore the under-discussed intricacies of what is definitely a very complex scenario. Don't oversimplify it by trying to portray it as an 'us vs them' thing. [Check out Robert Sapolsky talking about oxytocin.] One of the biggest problems in the world today is our inability to set aside our own biases to truly understand a different perspective. Doing that doesn't mean you agree with the other perspective. Check out Daniel Schmachtenberger's work on sensemaking. Have you listened to Chuck's other conversations with Nate? I believe they give a totally different impression of where he really stands with regards to warmongering, global conflict, nuclear weapons, etc.
Russia has no right to invade Ukraine, only you forget to mention a few things, like the violent overthrow of the democratically elected president of Ukraine Victor yanakovic by the CIA and western intelligence, more then 13000 Russia speaking Ukrainians were killed burned to death. Russia is not against a neutral Ukraine, Russia wanted a neutral Ukraine and Ukraine can do business with everybody. Russia was quite clear on that, but you can't put nato artillery and hypersonic missiles on the border of Ukraine/russia which can hit Moscow within 10 minutes, also Victoria Nuland admitted that the west had put biological facilities funded by the military industrial complex on the borders of Russia/Ukraine, which is a direct threat to Russia national security, Putin is more of a realist then ideological and saw this as a direct threat, which also means that Ukraine is not neutral. the minsk agreement should not be forgotten, it was an agreement that nato should not expand military in Ukraine, business yes military noo. Angela Merkel (was prime minister of Germany) said in her own words: the minsk agreement was only there to stall time and fool Russia so that America/Ukrainian (ultra nationalists) could built weapons and armaments in Ukraine on the borders of Russia. I know what would happen if Belgium did this to Germany, Netherlands, France. or mexico to the USA , we would destroy Belgium and mexico if they put Chinese weapons or Russian armenents on our borders. Don't forget we in the west have done worse things to other countries for far less.... Putin's knows that very well and feels justifiably that we want to take over Russia, because our financial sector needs constant war and land grabs to keep the money flow going, Russia is sitting on the largest land mass oil/gas and other rare earth minerals, we should not forget Napoleon and Hitler bot western and both wanted to grab Russias land, this should not be forgotten. Russia has the right to worry about that and when needed defend themselves, it doesn't justify the invasion, but there are other games being played that we in the west do not see, Putin is not stupid and has vast resources he might know things you don't know, we know for a fact check out the Oakland institute who owns Ukraine land and grains, our multinational corporations prey on Ukraine's land and Russia's land, we changed Russia into an oligarchy after the Soviet union, using shock therapy on Russia's economy and destabilize it so that an oligarchy could arise in Russia. Many of the worlds problem have been created by us by the west, and we should look really into history etc etc, if we want to get out of this mess.
@spos6893 Look at reality, not the headlines. Which country has murdered the most civilians in, say, the past 20 years? 500,000 Iraqis alone and that doesn't include another 500,000 who died due to sanctions. And that's just one war of several. This country also was involved with the death of 250,000 Yemeni. The list goes on. And do western European countries support that country? Indeed they do, no questions asked.
Nate, I would doubt many of your guest's affirmations if I were you. His estimates of casualties on the Ukrainian side is higher than even the Russian army's own estimates, which most people suspect are propaganda. Satellite imagery of cemetaries is far from a scientific assessment, and social media is quite unreliable. Of course a larger proportion of Ukrainians have lost someone in the war: Ukraine's population is less than a third of Russia's. Cemetaries also would be more scattered in Russia's immense territory.
Ich bin aus Ost-Deutschland und beschäftige mich mit der Thematik seit dem Ausbruch des Krieges. Die hier dargestellten Zusammenhänge sind verkürzt, weisen große Lücken auf und beinhalten nicht belegte Behauptungen. Ich empfehle jedem zu dem Thema weiter zu recherchieren, denn nur eine genaue Analyse (Geschichte, Hintergründe, aktuelles Framing,...) führt zu Ergebnissen, die es erlauben Schlüsse zu ziehen, die einen realistischen Lösungsansatz ermöglichen. Beste Grüße
I ALSO RESEARCH DEEPLY THE CONFLICT IN UKRAINE... So far, I have no issue with what Chuck offers, its correct. Ukraine has already lost this war and this is wholly unsurprising... the idea that Ukraine could ever have won was ridiculous. War is about logistics once the battle fronts are established. Ukraine never had the logistical superiority nor did NATO. Russia always had the industrial base and raw materials to ramp up its production and a willing population from which to create its army. Russia has achieved complete readiness... capable of taking on NATO if required. A conflict Putin DOES NOT WANT but has had to accept may well be necessary.
"Ukraine has already lost?" Sorry, comrade, but last I checked, in a war that was supposed to last days, the blue and gold is still flying over Kiev, Zelensky is still president, and the Ukrainian army still fights in the field. Russia has failed to overthrow the Ukrainian government, has failed to "de-nazify" Ukraine (a stupid assertion to begin with), has failed to defeat the Ukrainian army, has failed to even take the territory it claimed to have annexed. Putin's folly has already been a huge win for the US and NATO, even if Ukraine were to surrender tomorrow. Putin's war on Ukraine has decimated the Russian military, exposed the myth of Russian military greatness, united what was a fractured NATO alliance, expanded NATO's presence hundreds of miles along the Russian border with the addition of Sweden and Finland after decades of their neutrality (even freaking Switzerland is sending support for Ukraine), and isolated Russia politically and financially except for a few like minded fascist states like North Korea and Iran. These are all things Russia has worked for decades to avoid. All so effectively accomplished in just a year by Putin's blunder. Not sure how anyone can reasonably call that Ukraine losing.
What about strategic outlook for russia? Demography, sanctions, lack of investments, inability to replenish the equipent they are now utilizing at full capacity, frozen reserves, leak of brains, closed western markets, stopped scientific cooperation, growing muslim population, etc? For me it is evident Russia will choke on Ukraine...
Last I checked, in a war that was supposed to last days, the blue and gold is still flying over Kiev, Zelensky is still president, and the Ukrainian army still fights in the field. Russia has failed to overthrow the Ukrainian government, has failed to "de-nazify" Ukraine (a stupid assertion to begin with), has failed to defeat the Ukrainian army, has failed to even take the territory it claimed to have annexed. Putin's folly has also been a huge win for the US and NATO, even if Ukraine were to surrender tomorrow. Putin's war on Ukraine has decimated the Russian military, exposed the myth of Russian military greatness, united what was a fractured NATO alliance, expanded NATO's presence hundreds of miles along the Russian border with the addition of Sweden and Finland after decades of their neutrality (even freaking Switzerland is sending support for Ukraine), and isolated Russia politically and financially except for a few like minded fascist states like North Korea and Iran. These are all things Russia has worked for decades to avoid. All so effectively accomplished in just a year by Putin's blunder. Not sure how anyone can reasonably call that Ukraine losing.
Watson is literally spewing Russian propaganda. Line Poland wanting to get Western Ukraine. There are multiple polish people calling him out on it. And he said many more lies like that.
The underlying salient reality here is that it is only a select few INDIVIDUALS in these conflicts that are making the decisions. IF the issue was presented to a genuine plebiscite, a collective unambgious majority would cry a resounding STOP! That is the truly scary part. Are most of us merely passengers on a runaway bus driven by lunatics!?
That's exactly the case and it was the case during the most of humanity's history. It's very tragic and depressing - we can't have any influence on the way things going to turn out. Non at all.
This is a type of comment that can be condensed to „peace is better than war“ which is true but banal. Sorry, but you need some political analysis: Russia is the aggressor who clearly acts against international law out of purely nationalistic-imperialistic motifs combined with ressource grabbing. The genuine plebiscite was the 1991 poll where over 90% of Ukranians voted for national independence, with majorities even in the Donbas and Crimea. This war ends as soon as Russia respects internationally acclaimed borders.
He says that Russia doesn't want "all of Ukraine" because this has been made very clear from their statements. Didn't the russian government shortly before invading Ukraine say that their troops at the border are just there for exercise and no invasion will take place? As a German I get strong "No one has the intention of building a wall" vibes here. This interview leaves me quite puzzled. I would've probably learned more if it was more of a debate between him and say someone like Vlad Vexler
"troops at the border are just there for exercise and no invasion will take place". It is what Russia had been heard for many years about NATO expansion before invitation of Ukraine and Georgia in 2008 . "Don't worry, missile bases in Romania and Poland are against Iran, it's not against you, we are defensive alliance, we are for world peace, our NATO instructors in Ukraine are just for fun."
@@German-hv9nv that's exactly what I said? They claimed it's just exercise, then invaded. The guest in this interview claims that Russia doesn't want all of Ukraine because their statements made it clear. As you say and as I pointed out, statements are one thing, actions another.
@@davehendricks4824 and so i have, nate's gateway to inversion table therapy and a nice apocalyptic anime, not at the same time of course and the notification of your comment a mere blip.
Of course it needs to be fact checked. However, might I suggest a comprehensive review of the history of NATO and the Cold War, starting with George F. Kennan? His autobiography (2 volumes) is readily available and quite readable. As far as my own research and fact checking goes, Chuck is spot on with all his assertions. As just one example, The Guardian had multple articles on Boris Johnson going to Kyiv on April 9, 2022 and telling Volodymyr Zelenskyy that if he accepted the Istanbul proposal, the US and UK would stop funding him and sending weapons.
@@wvhaugen oh man here come the experts. Everything totally checks out. Thanks guys! Ukraine's not even its own country anyway right? It should just accept the loving embrace of mother russia.
@@rohitparikh8132 okay when did the Luhansk region design the Iskander missile system and the means to produce them? They've been using them a lot in this "civil war".
@@rohitparikh8132 "the West of Ukraine prefer to belong to Russia", "Polish people hate Ukrainians only slightly less than Russians", "the West are irrational, crazed, bonkers, Russia is reasonable, measured, despite threatening to nuke Europe every week". I paraphrased that last one. Chuck came across as unhinged.
Russia is using the same tactics in Ukraine that worked in Georgia and Armenia. They invaded the Donbass and Crimea in 2014 under thinly veiled excuses, and the West let it happen, just like in Georgia. The simple fact is, Russia is the one that crossed the border into Ukraine. Ukraine didn’t invite them, and Ukraine has been fighting them tooth and nail ever since. Ukraine has a right to be independent. As to motives in the West, few people claim our intentions are pure, but that doesn’t mean Russia has a right to invade Ukraine.
Russia defended themselves and their neighbors against a NATO takeover. Russia have known since 2007 that this was a coordinated Nato attack against Russia. As you can see, Russia prepared themselves well, and are not very pressured in any way so far. Unfortunately the western population is fed liberal propaganda about Russia to gain support for an escalation, and people unfortunately still buying the 'unprovoked invasion' story. People need to watch the truth themselves: ruclips.net/p/PL6-hcqTF_eSc6PIdk3QIwtoxtTK1wr30y
imagine this. Yugoslavia=Ukraine=Georgia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo=Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia, NATO/Europe/USA=Russia. Now Yugoslavia - evil state, Ukraine and Georgia - fighters for freedom and democracy for the sake of the whole world, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo - fighters for freedom, independence and democracy, Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia - separatists and terrorists backed by evil power. NATO/Europe/USA - good powers, Russia - evil power. UN didn't give permission NATO/Europe/USA to back Kosovo in 1999 and for Russia to back Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia. No sanctions at all for Europe/USA. Unprecedented sanctions for Russia. UN wouldn't have given permission to back Croatia, Bosnia earlier if it wasn't for Russia's weak position at the time. People killed in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo are the victims of evil power. People killed in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia can be ignored. What tactics have been using NATO/Europe/USA in Yugoslavia and Ukraine for many years and what for? Why Ukraine is better than Yugoslavia? Why defending people in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia is an aggression but defending people in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo is a noble honorable deed?
imagine this. Yugoslavia=Ukraine=Georgia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo=Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia, NATO/Europe/USA=Russia. Now Yugoslavia - evil state, Ukraine and Georgia - fighters for freedom and democracy for the sake of the whole world, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo - fighters for freedom, independence and democracy, Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia - separatists and terrorists backed by evil power. NATO/Europe/USA - good powers, Russia - evil power. UN didn't give permission NATO/Europe/USA to back Kosovo in 1999 and for Russia to back Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia. No sanctions at all for Europe/USA. Unprecedented sanctions for Russia. UN wouldn't have given permission to back Croatia, Bosnia earlier if it wasn't for Russia's weak position at the time. People killed in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo are the victims of evil power. People killed in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia can be ignored. What tactics have been using NATO/Europe/USA in Yugoslavia and Ukraine for many years and what for? Why Ukraine is better than Yugoslavia? Why defending people in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia is an aggression but defending people in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo is a noble honorable deed?
Valuing your input, I have concerns regarding this episode. I would argue that you could be running some reputational risk (outside of USA) with your continued engagement with Watsons' views on geopolitics. You have interviewed many different specialists on specific climate change themes but continue (obsessively??) to run with one person's interpretation of an american-centric geopolitical 'truth'. A brief review of the comments to this podcast suggests that there is a general consensus that many of Watson's comments could be incorrect. The idea that Wagner forces in Africa have been "assisting, providing security assistance and training" is laughable. "400/ 500.000" Ukr civilians dead - Only "Tens of thousands" Russian casualties?? That we should be "fair" that Putin is not a dictator?? "Revenge" as a motive (German WWII )?? This sentence makes no logical sense - "Russia has every right already under international law, leaving aside the issue of whether the invasion is right or wrong, none of that matters" - In terms of justice, how can it not matter? If the occupied 'eastern' Ukrainians are largely the ones fighting against 'western' Ukrainians, why bother with conscription in Russia? That "Russia doesn't want all of Ukraine" is a myth - Putin has publicly stated otherwise. Throwing eastern Europe back under a repressive Russian regime is not a humane solution. You appear to be subscribing to a Longtermist philosophy which is concerning? You maintain that you are just two people who care about the future and complex life. To ensure that nuclear exchange does not take place, and complex life continues, ditch Ukr. What quality of life of others/ Ukrainians/ Eastern Europeans, are you willing to sacrifice to maintain this (your) complexity? Given the horrors of the Putin invasion inflicted on Ukr, do you not think that appeasing this brutality would have an influence on future complex life. If Hitler had won WWII, we would still have complex life, but only for a privileged minority white - LGBTQI plus, black, gypsy, Jew or other be damned. Would it be too much to ask for another, non-American (European) perspective on this topic to make sure that you are not being geopolitically one-sided (blind)? Also, truth has always been a key component of this podcast that offers great value. Please can you fact check the above assertions made by Watson. If you find them to be incorrect, why would Watson be pushing them? Why would you be pushing Watsons view?
Excellent comment. I hope Nate reads this. He pretty much gave an open mic to a pro-Putin apologist for an hour. I'm not sure that I'm interested in listening to anything Nate has to say at this point..
Chuck Watson states that for Russia, the war is existential and that they cannot "lose." I've heard this before, but I would have liked for your guest to have expanded on this or been questioned, because at least on the surface, while Putin and many in Russia may believe it is existential, I do not see that. Why couldn't Ukraine stay whole, decide who they want to ally with economically and politically (ironically, I suspect that if Russia were not ruled by an autocrat, many Ukrainians would prefer to be allied with Russia rather than the west), and Russia also survive intact? There could be an agreement that Ukraine would not join Nato. I don't see the existential threat, well maybe because of this war there is, but I'm sure were Russia to "lose" - retreat to Russian borders and cease hostilities - Russia would eventually lose the pariah status and be better positioned to sell its oil and mineral wealth to a needy world.
Wait, so this guy has Russian TV on in the background, a Russian orthodox pendant on his table, says the Ukraine war is civil war, and muses about Russia attacking France in French territory? This is so weird I CANNOT believe it's not a setup.
Yet his analysis is very similar to Mearsheimer's and Mearsheimer is 100% committed to the maintenance of US dominance. What would you call the years from 2014 to 2021 when Ukraine bombed the Donbass killing 14,000 of its own citizens?
You should get Vlad Vexler, Jonathan Fink (from Silicon Veil podcast where he talks daily in-depth with academics and journalists about the war), or Mark Galeotti on to provide a counterpoint to this narrative. Someone here keeps posting the same reply about watching John Mearsheimer for support of Chuck’s arguments, but there are some major problems with Mearsheimer ’realist’ view - mainly ignoring that foreign policy in especially dictatorships often has more to do with domestic power politics. Putin likes to use the narrative of Nato enlargement to justify his expansionist policy - that doesn’t mean it should be taken at face value. The fact that the Mearsheimer video blew up like it did on youtube after the invasion began is not an organic coincidence - it supports the Russian narrative. Threatening nuclear war is also a conscious strategy - but giving in to that kind of blatant blackmail will only encourage more of it going forward.
Watching Russian propaganda TV can be very informative, if you want to see the kind of narratives that the Russian regime is pushing domestically. Russian Media Monitor is a good channel that subtitles clips from Russian state TV. Of course there is propaganda on all sides, but there are some real qualitative and quantitative differences between what we are served in the west, and what the average Russian viewer is marinating in on a daily basis
You nailed it Nate. I studied Russian language in the mid 80' for the sole purpose of becoming an orthopaedic surgeon and find my Russian language teachers great people and friendly though I didn't make it but memories lingers
NATO is a war monger group out to rob and steal resources using the democratic narrative. Keep your civilisation to yourselves, as we all know where Christianity originates from Read our Bible and you will be surprised the Europeans are liars. God didn't create white people. Facts are there in the Bible no wonder the whites don't like to hear the truth and hate everyone else
Nate: I am sorry, you fumbled what ball with this interview. Your guest arrogantly, in my view, fails to recognize the Ukrainian people as having any agency within their own story. While he may have had expertise on Russia, his knowledge of Ukraine is lacking. His analysis is dangerously oversimplified, which surprised me given your efforts generally to expose us to the complex interconnectedness of the material world. Ukrainians are a people with a deeper place in history than Russia itself; it is a sovereign nation with a democratically elected government (as verified by international observers and recognized by countries of the world). The sovereign people of Ukraine collectively chose a path of liberalism over illiberalism even in the face of the authoritarian imperialist state next door. This is the true threat to the Putin regime, having a model state of Slavic cousins with such potential right on its border. Russia invaded to shore up the Putin regime and its leader's egoic vision of his destiny. Ukrainian people have only one choice---to continue fighting or face genocide.
Nate doesn't need to provide any answers to his viewers. You're can go elsewhere for a different point of view, including all the propaganda.@@HoboGoblinCat
Agency? When the US has been directing this war up to now and Boris Johnson made Zelensky reject the first peace plan? Putin miscalculated badly by invading, under a flimsy pretext, and it has, as always, lasted far longer than the generals thought it would. But it did not start in 2022 just as the Gaza catastrophe did not start on Oct 7th. These are narratives the West constructs to justify its war machine. Western values vs the rest does not hold up to any scrutiny. Did you read the recent developments about the Maidan Massacre?
Where Watson errs is that Luhansk and Donetsk militias are either conscripted and/or are soldiers because there is no other work available, whereas on the Ukraine side you have a lot of people volunteering to serve either in frontline positions or in support roles, like combat medic. There is a difference. In this regard it is not a civil war in the sense of people fighting for their own destiny and determination; however, it might be considered a civil war in the sense that oligarchs that arose upon the fall of the USSR and who now control the heavy industry in Ukraine have aligned themselves with either Ukrainian or Russian interests. Watson also doesn't seem to fully understand how Russia is a mafia state as elucidated so plainly by Masha Gessen. To understand the mafia state, one needs to look outside the wealthy Moscow and St Petersburg cities and see how corrupt the system is at siphoning extractive wealth back to the Moscow elites. It is simply imperialism in the traditional mold of what European countries were doing in Africa at the turn of the century.
Very well said. Also, Watson and Hagens never truly go into the political and society disruption in 2013 with Yanukovych and his cronies. The people of Ukraine had enough of the lies and theft by his government and deceitful policies.
@@franklebowski9728... they also forgot to mention that the US spent something like 3 billion dollars on a destabilization campaign within Ukraine leading up to that coup - a lot of it went to far-right opposition political parties and the manipulation of public opinion.
None of that has bearing on the conflict today except to say Ukraine has the same type of politics. What you describe is actually another reason the war has been bad for the west as the oligarchs money is now staying in Russia more and not being laundered to the west.
This is so disappointing (and I am a big fan of the podcast) that from now on I will truly question all of you next guests. You need to fact check, I live in Bulgaria and am very familiar with Russian propaganda talking points. This guy is so boating, he did not come up with any new conspiracy. Very disappointing that you would bring up such a person…
To understand Ukraine you need to understand US foreign policy. The Americans don't care about Ukrainians. They are just Nato triggermen. Start by googling "Wolfowitz doctrine" and "full spectrum dominance."
I'm always happy to hear the different perspectives of the guests that Nate has on, even if I disagree with them. And I found myself disagreeing with Chuck a lot (based on a position of relative ignorance, to be sure).
I love Nate podcast when it's about energy, ecological overshoot, or the climate crisis. But this kind of episode makes me wonder of the quality of the whole channel...
Everything is interconnected. You cannot be concerned about energy supply or the environment (global warming?) without also being concerned about potential forever wars chewing vast holes in our human capabilities to manage those other things. How much oil was used to create those 10 destroyed ships? Or the 2000 destroyed tanks? Or those 10,000 150 lb bombs? Or the million artillery shells? Or to rebuild an entire country? And what about the people. It all matters a lot. Foreign policy is very important.
It's important to hear and consider counter-narratives, and I do hold some views about Ukraine that are not part of the popular discourse in the USA. However, there's a lot about this guy's perspective that, in my opinion, doesn't add up and runs contrary to what I hear from serious military analysts. While I appreciate the need for outside perspectives, I also appreciate the need for accuracy.
Fact checking is needed. I have no idea who this Watson character is, and searching the web there is not much out there. He is patently incorrect on a number of his comments and his historical recognition of Ukrainian/Russian history is very sloppy. An example of his comments regarding the Crimean war (1850's) and the British still being focused on the war is ridiculous. War atrocities committed against Poland in WW2 were perpetrated by the Nazi's and the Soviet Union. Ukraine has longed for it's own liberty for hundreds of years and has seemly ended up on the receiving end of destruction, famine, occupation and oppression from different powers of the day dating hundreds of years. I also question his casualty numbers for both Ukraine (especially) and Russia. Both governments are trying to keep the actual numbers down, but looking at many other sources, Russia has a large number of dead and rotting in the fields of the Donbas. Oryx also gives an excellent account of military equipment destroyed and verifies the numbers. Closing, I feel there is too much to fact check with this guy, and he certainly sounds like a fan boy of Russia himself. Until we see his "facts", I will look towards other sources being more affable.
You might want to watch Afghanistan: The Great Game (2012) with Rory Stewart. It is on RUclips. That is what Chuck referenced in one of his comments on "the great game." I could go on with many of Chuck's comments, but I am sure you get the picture. It is not a case of alternative facts at all. It is a case of making some analyses with imperfect information. Poker players do this kind of reasoning all the time.
“…British being focused on the war.” Question: didn’t Boris Johnson fly to Kiev to stop Zelensky agreeing to a peace deal? Haven’t the British been sending arms ro Ukraine?
The guest is super interesting and thank you for bringing him on, I just think that you as a host keep jumping in and talk about other topics and your own take and you don't let the guest talk as extensive as he could and the result is that we as the subscribers of your channel only get fragments of his answers.
Hello Nate, Sorry but this was a disgrace. It is beyond comprehension that you could hurt your show’s credibility to that extent. Why on earth have Russia Today’s mouthpiece on ? As all your European fans I am constantly reminded that Americans have very little grasp of our continent’s history, geography, ideas and beliefs, but it’s ok because we understand that you are looking at things from a US standpoint, even though that makes you miss out on lots of interesting initiatives relevant to climate and energy that are happening in Europe. But this episode was just unbearable, facts wrongs, analyses misleading if not delusional, and altogether frankly scary. One wonders whether your guest even bothered to look up what he was commenting on. Let’s put it this way : I do hope that you will take it to heart to concentrate on hosting the brilliant scientists that have made your show such an interesting one so far, and relevant to all on this planet.
Hi veroniquebazille9268. Chuck's perspective is pretty solid, and in line with respected scholars (e.g. check out talks by John Mearsheimer). Mainstream media are about as reliable on geopolitical reality as they are on energy blindness.
@@TimothyMusson “Scholar”, a guy who has evidently not bothered to actually read the French president’s declaration but comments on it spewing nonsense ? “Scholar” a person who does not seem to even have a sense of Europe’s geography or past history ? No, he is just an unabashed Putin propagandist.
@@TimothyMusson Hi Timothy, I live in Italy, and daily access info and research on 4 languages. Either geopoliticists on our side of the pond are total dummies or a fair share of Americans are sadly mistaken, blinded by their own internal political prejudice. Of course America has every right to wash its hands of Russia's rampage, but I would really prefer it to be based on real facts, and not fantasies.
"Disgrace" is an excellent description of this episode. I hope Nate is sufficiently embarrased and ashamed to issue an apology to his listeners, for subjecting us to an hour of open-mic Soviet-stye Realpolitik.
Great show. Finally facts instead of the narrative. Thanks for sharing this insights. God bless both of you and Happy Easter Christ is risen! Truly he has risen! That is most common Orthodox Eastern greeting. ✝️🤝☦️🤝🇷🇺🤝🇺🇸
Article 51 Sentence 1 of the U.N. Charter: "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security"
And when the armed attack is a response to a coup followed by attacks on the peaceful civilian population opposed to that coup? The West created this conflict, not Putin. That is pure fact. People need to verify the facts before defending what is only mindless and absurdly childish propaganda.
@@noelburke6224 Ukraine, the EU member states, the USA and other countries are UN contractiong states. Thus the EU member states, the USA, and any other UN contracting state is entitled under the UN Charter to come to the aid of Ukraine. That is what Art. 51 of the UN Charter says.
The West can't afford to lose this and the cost of deteriorating Russians military is a bargain even at 250billion; that's nothing in our national wealth of 150 trillion. We have much much more to lose, so instead make it cost russia this year!
34:20 Ukraine has the largest untapped gas reserves on the planet plus range of other critical minerals. As Olivia Lazard expressed in her conversation on this channel, Ukraine had signed a memorandum of understanding the the European Union and sought tenders of interest to develop this massive wealth of resources within the year before Russia invaded. Coincidence? Olivia's perspective has helped to reason why countries are willing to continue support for Ukraine in light of their massive windfall
The US destroyed the Nordstream pipeline after a non-public agreement between US and Germany. The US promised Nigerian oil through a pipeline across Niger. Shipped from there to Germany. More colonialist exploitation. While in the meantime the US sells that petroleum to Germany. Moreover, remember that Lord Ismay, first head of NATO, said: "The goal is to keep Russia out, keep Germany down, and the United States on top."
Mr Watson tells a story about the future of Ukraine that not many people would want to hear. I usually have a good radar for narratives that are not the full story or inaccurate and that is the feeling I get listening to his thesis. Time will tell I suppose. Greetings Nate and take care, mate.
ah the joy of living on your knees and licking the boot that kicks, what could be better than this peace? idk maybe the entire human race could learn something about dying with dignity and stop killing the planet instead.
Ukraine in its post-2014 state is a trophy for the US and a millstone around the neck for mainland Europe. Of course Washington is fully aware that the sweeping dictates to support Ukraine through thick and thin (and to block off Russia) are weakening Europe, a competitor to the US on several levels.
@@keithomelvena2354 nah, they are already slave to Benderites N*z*, except the eastern Russophile/Russophones, who have asked Putin to intervene and are happy to going back to be Russian.
At 18:30 "the ones in the West would prefer to be part of Russia.... The ones in the East. This wasn't the case 15 years ago". There so much sloppiness going on here its hard to know where to start. You can't let a statement like that go without clarifying what he's saying. Look at the polls of Ukrainian support foe fighting back, its in the 90s. Disappointed in Nate for letting all this stuff go. Its hard to believe a word Chuck says after some of the statements here.
and he's wrong this was a replacement invasion since 2013 not a civil war as he claims. pfffft foreign influence was russian from the start or should i say fall of the corrupt yeltsin regime to be replaced by the hyper-corrupt putin regime.
Note too how Chuck subtlety draws a false moral equivalence between Poland and Russia as he describes how Poland will partake im the partitioning of Ukraine by taking part of the West(they won't), as if there is no difference between the regime in Russia and that in Poland. Oh and he says Romania and Hungary will take the south (they wont). Chuck is saying the actions of Russia are on the same moral plane as actual democratic, free countries, so who are to judge. Despicable.
On top of that, they completely overlook Russia's long imperial history. Russia being at odds with the Baltic states, Finland, Poland etc. is not just countries not getting along. Russia invaded these places and controlled them, often to the detriment of people there. Eastern Europe is only as Russian as the people there would like it to be, and war does not change that.
His partitioning bla bla is outrageous. The reasoning behind this stems from an imperialistic era that saw acts like the Hitler-Stalin pact. No European country other than Russia would take an inch of Ukranian territory even if completely undefended.
none of this rings true with the feedback i get from ukranian friends i made in 2018 that i still talk to once in while. I think the interveiwer and the interviewee are caught in some weird alternative information bubble.
Unfortunately it's true. Your friends in Ukraine are also caught in the liberal information bubble created by the US elite. Most of the sudden Ukrainian hatred against Russia was created by heavy investment by US over several decades. It's called 'cognitive conditioning' (heard from a US security woman). This is big. Here's more if you decide to go down the rabbit hole: ruclips.net/p/PL6-hcqTF_eSc6PIdk3QIwtoxtTK1wr30y
Someone keeps referring to Mearsheimer as some kind of authority on this, and how the war is all the fault of the west for pushing NATO to Russia’s borders. There are many good rebuttals of this very simplistic (and plain wrong) take. Here’s one that came out just yesterday that comprehensively debunks Mearsheimer’s ideas, and exposes his motivations for advocating a Ukrainian surrender: ruclips.net/video/wE-t2ePFEDc/видео.htmlsi=3Xc0BVsBLIlTZqDB And agreeing with others here Nate. Very disappointed in you for platforming these narratives without serious pushback when there’s so much OSINT data and serious analysis out there really undermines your trustworthiness on other issues, and makes me less inclined to share your podcast with others to inform them about the energy and climate issues
@henriklarson. I have watched dozens of hours of Mearsheiner, read and studied his and Steve Walt’s book “the Israel Lobby”. I watched the video you suggested from “the Lonerbox”, and read Mearsheimer’s 1993 18-page essay from the video: “the case for nuclear deterrence for Ukraine”. My verdict is that the video is “a limited hangout” for the CIA, the neocons, and American interests. Of course I would not want to live in Russia or Ukraine, nor do I have faith in any global leaders - politicians are all slime balls in some way. Re: the economic plans for Ukraine, from the EU and from Russia, it is not odd that Mearsheimer was not familiar with it. Read Yanis Varoufakis’ book “Adults in the Room” about his shocking experience as Greek finance minister with the EU Central bank, IMF, and Germany. They wanted austerity and eternal debt slavery for Greece. That’s how those bastards make money. He wanted to refuse their horrible loan, consolidate his debt, and find a less extortionary lender (possibly China). The “troika” threatened and cajoled, and schemed against him - like a mafia. They didn’t want to lose their potential profits. Vultures. I also highly recommend David Talbot’s “the Devil’s Chessboard”, and John Stockwell’s “In Search of Enemies”.
@@kassfischer5146thanks for a thoughtful reply. I’ve meant to read Varoufakis book some time, so might get on to that now. I agree to a large extent about politicians. Positions of power attract people with dark tetrad traits. I’ve read a lot of Chomsky in my life too, so am well acquainted with US imperial policies since ww2. As a Swede, I still see Russia as a greater threat to my part of the world though. A world with Russian hegemony (highly unlikely, but as a thought experiment) would be a much less pleasant place for all than the world dominated by the US, which for all its faults has been a relatively benign empire by historic standards. The US and other western democracies could not get away in this day and age with sending waves of badly trained and equipped soldiers with the casualty figures taken by the Russians to capture villages; or racking up the neverending list of well documented war crimes (terror bombings of civilian targets, widespread torture and rape, kidnapping of thousands of children etc. etc.) that Russia is doing in Ukraine, while brazenly denying it. There is at least some measure of accountability of leaders, and the messianic ideals of spreading liberal democracy and free markets - for all the greed and self-interest it comes with, are still genuinely held by many and serves to prevent the worst abuses of power. Russia’s neighboring states who’ve been under their yoke before are well aware of this difference of culture too. I’m not really sure what you mean with the comment about the video being a CIA hangout? Anyway, thanks again for expressing disagreement in a respectful way and pointing me to some reading resources
Normally I like the content on this channel. But I was aghast at the quality of this discussion. I’m a Russian-speaking person - and I have no idea what this man is talking about. According to him, no “Russian speaker” believes what BBC English is saying and buys into what BBC Russia says. I’m sorry - that’s not the case. If Russia was so great and everyone loves Putin, then why did a million people leave Russia since the war started? (and I’m not talking about those who left before). But let’s get to the facts. First, the man focuses on all the bad things the West is doing and is glossing over everything terrible that has been done by Putin’s government. First, he says that the fighting mainly happens between West Ukrainians and East Ukrainians, but he conveniently doesn’t mention that people in the Donbass are *forcefully* conscripted, put into prisons and then are forced to participate in “meat assaults” under the barrel of a gun - that of Russian officers. Second, he says that Russian casualties are “only” tens of thousands. So, you just blindly believe the Russian statistics? For example, Russia passed a law according to which anyone can be pardoned of their criminal record if they get conscripted. The number of prisoners in Russian prisons has dropped by at least 150,000. And do you know how many of them die during assaults without weapons and with poor equipment? The “good” thing is that no one will look for them, so their casualties can be swept under the rug. There are pictures of cemeteries where you literally see new graves as far as the eye can see. This is not to mention that Russia is now in the middle of a new mobilization campaign, which would make no sense if they didn’t need new men. They are trying to mobilize 300,000 new conscripts, so where are the hundreds of thousands of men already mobilized? Why are you not asking basic logical questions? Third, which actually made me chuckle: Russia is apparently a conservative country! One of the highest rates of divorce and abortion in Europe, religiosity at around 8% according to polls. I mean, check these elementary facts before saying such nonsense! You are basically buying into Ru propaganda when you say Russia is some conservative bastion. Fourth, just an absurd notion that the fact that “Ukraine” means borderlands, it is somehow supposed to be part of Russia? Have you heard of Kievan Rus - if anything, Ukraine should have all of Russia then. Yeah, someone’s relative lives in Russia and the two countries are now at war. Is this the first time this happened? I mean go back to Yugoslavia. I’m sorry, this is not serious scholarship but just cherry-picked factoids that are so easy to expose as bearing little relation to reality. Oh, and no mention of all the genocidal rhetoric in Russia. People like Dugin calling for “murder, murder, murder,” hatred spewing from TV, the Kremlin-supported singer dressing like a literal Nazi (check Shaman). Basically ignoring FACTS. None of this is to say that I agree with whatever the Western governments are doing or Western media are saying. But come on, stop whitewashing Russian imperialism and militarism. You just sound like a tankie from the times of the Cold War, when some Western people were unhappy with their governments and saw some good alternative in the USSR, whitewashing all their horrific crimes. Interview a real historian like Antony Beevor.
Agreed. You are the only one making any sense in this entire thread. The guy's credibility went in the toilet as soon as he claimed Ukranian casualties at 500,000 and Russian at 10 to 15,000. Nonsense.
So true... it's Nato, not Ukraine at war with the Russian Federation. We know, We Are Ukrainians, and would never want to fight against our own Russian families.
I don't know why this idiotic introduction about the history of Ukraine. Watson could have said outright that there is no such thing as Ukraine and there is no such nation as Ukrainians. He could have added that there are no Lithuanians, Latvians or Estonians in the area yet. He would have it over with.
this feels like listening to a climate denier. However, from a technical point of view it is interesting to see how these Russian apologists operate and what techniques they use to spread Kremlin propaganda to an English speaking audience. Its heartbreaking hearing Nate get so easily sucked in though. I'm normally a big fan of this podcast, but I have now lost a lot of respect.
Hehe, what I can see. It's scary how much naive people it is, swallowing gov controlled western mainstream news straight down without thinking 🤔 If people don't wake up after two years with propaganda and lie's from western mainstream, they never would. Maybe when it's starting raining nuclear missiles and sun disappear 😂 Maybe little late to wake up....
Coincidentally you come out as a narrow-minded brainwashed Anglo mainstream propaganda believer. You've even learned tto confess your climate guilt and to include it in every topic. If you can't see that both sides have their propaganda consisting of a varying ratio of truths, half truths and lies you're not thinking for yourself. The AGM and CO2 story has multiple gaping holes in it and just like official Western narrative of this conflict it lacks all nuance, introspection and alternate considerations. He's talking facts in a historical context. You should be grateful because that's something the Western MSM will never give you.
If his information was as useless and incorrect as many here are claiming, then why would they need to flood the site with troll-like comments attacking him? Or are they fearful that he might have made a few telling points?
I haven't heard of anyone denying climate yet. I've heard many scientists expressing their scepticism over the role of CO2 in regulating global temperatures, though. Dr. William Happer, for example. There seems to be a correlation between those who believe in anthropogenic global warming and those who abide to the mainstream narrative of the conflict in Ukraine. The same people usually believe in covid vaccine efficiency and safety, too. The fact that no neutral and non-partisan discussion over these topics is allowed should make it clear to any observant person that they are first and foremost political tools. This is a very neutral and well-informed interview. The Western media coverage hasn't been neutral, well-informed or truthful. Of course the Kremlin has it's own views and interests but so far their their version has been relatively balanced and truthful compared to the absurd propaganda coming from the White House.
@@antispindr8613 much of it is indeed incorrect, but it isn't useless. It is actually part of a wider disinformation strategy by the Kremlin which has successfully created a narrative that has been counterproductive to actually winning the war so far. The pushback against helping Ukraine contributed to Biden's failed "escalation management" policy, which meant that Ukraine did not receive the right quantity and type of weapons before the Russians could build the Surovikin line. After that, possible actual traitors bought by Moscow in the US congress actively delayed the aid package. That got through eventually, it probably wont be enough to do more than hold the status quo, so it ends up costing more over the long run to either win slowly or lose. Nate could have had (and still could have) an interesting discussion with someone who actually knows their stuff relating the war to other great simplification themes like fossil fuel reserves in the black sea, kinetic sanctions on russian oil refining capacity, ecocide by the invaders and the potential of damage to nuclear power plants the longer they are allowed to stay there. but he chose to platform this shill and lost a lot of respect from his audience.
Were this podcast around during the Persian invasions, Nate might have advised the Hellenes to surrender. While you travel the world and run into nice russians, perhaps visiting Ukraine could shift the perspective from a high-level, detached, and one that lacks historical context to a perspective that offers profound insights. The Bykivnia graves, the Museum of Holodomor, and Askold's Grave stand as solemn reminders of why tens of thousands have given their lives while resisting Russian invasion in the recent years.
You right, Putin regime needs to be removed. They started it. Because they don't want division of Power inside their system, so all their political murders would come to daylight - and punishment, and all theft and kleptocracy behavior they want to never see challenged by real courts and independent courts and media. Putin and his regime would end up in a camp in Siberia CORRECTLY... If Ukraine or Belarus undergo that process, Putin regime know, they are next, which affects their stolen wealth, their self and their relatives existence and life style... Also there is a false sense of grandiosity in ''Russian'' society and even a false sense of peoplehood/nation (If they say Ukraine isn't a real Country, that can be true, but then Russia isn't neither... It's a collective of ''Russianized'' Baltics, Finn, Ugrics, Slaves, Germans, Swedes and Jews and Armenians and Georgians and all the regional colonized minorities (local majorities...) )'' ...Not a real nation neither ... More a temporary Nation/Imperia of formerly mostly unusable Lands... There is 3/4 outcomes... Russia Putin starts to win in UA and march like Hitler just vice versa direction and het gets his pleasure from going rout ''Zar of Eurasia''' instead of fear being himself toppled after UA or Belarus went Poland or Czecho/Slovakias or Slovenias way.... Next scenario is there is a cease fire agreement to stop it here with changed borders of UA (Won't happen, because no one really wants to stop it now... Maybe Fico or Orban want that) Next scenario is that somehow Putin regime can be toppled... Another scenario is that Ukraine support stops. then within 3-6 months Russian troops are in Moldova and maybe on border to Poland, Romania and Hungary with Run and Gun Civil war partly from Underground, mostly with just Hand Gun/Riffle weapons and Car bombs.. In this scenario there will be 4 - 20 million more Ukrainian refugees... Other scenario is that some Nato Nations start to move In. Which I would support, I would place them 30-50 km around Kharkiv and on the Dnepro river. Here UK and France and US would need to be involved as they have Nuclear weapons and this will deter Putin regime. I would not send in Polish and German troops without nuclear Umbrella... The most rational thing would be regime hand over (with amnesty for Putin regime...) or change with help from outside in Russia (without amnesty for Putin regime)... We will have war in 3 months to 4-5 years if Putin regime don't loose in Ukraine. Because he will ''go for it'' / He takes pleasure out of it, it's small man grandiosity syndrome / Napoleon syndrome...
@@Equalzer do you understand nuclear war? explain the geostrategy of going right up next to every border of Russia makes sense? I'm ashamed of what NATO has become
Hi Nate, like many others have commented, this was a sad episode. It is Moscow's false narrative to call the invasion of a democratic independent country a civil war, etc. But now that you have started, please bring in a guest with both a neutral view on this, and the yearning for peace, and please do not continue to talk down to the Ukrainians. I wish the best for your podcast.
I disagree with your opinion about this episode. First of all Ukraine was not a Democracy since 2014 when the CIA orchestrated a takeover of the government. Then after that a NATO military buildup occurred in the Ukraine with the intent to aggravate Russia. The US mainstream media is NOT my information source. haha. We can, with a bit of effort, review more accurate information such as the analysis of Jeffry Sacks.
@@bobd251 nothing at all is neutral about his argument except pointing out Ukrainians are dying fast and all without pointing his finger at the TRUE culprit.
Nonsense. This war started in 2014 with the US overthrow of the democratically elected Ukraine government. A recent NY Times article goes into great detail outlining how the CIA has been working with the Ukrainians since that time to organize acts of terrorism in Russia and the Donbass.
Long fan of your podcast Nate! But this Chuck Watson intervju was disapointing if you plan to have only him on. He i clearly on one side and he presented some strange angels to many topics that should not be taken as «facts». I am Norwegian and have noticed that US «experts» seem to be claim things about european matters that sounds strange for a european. I guess my claims about US would be very different from many who lives in US…
I completely agree. Here is my response to this interview, which I hope more people will see because the guy just says absolute nonsense not based on facts and omits important information: I’m a Russian-speaking person - and I have no idea what this man is talking about. According to him, no “Russian speaker” believes what BBC English is saying and buys into what BBC Russia says. I’m sorry - that’s not the case. If Russia was so great and everyone loves Putin, then why did a million people leave Russia since the war started? (and I’m not talking about those who left before). But let’s get to the facts. First, the man focuses on all the bad things the West is doing and is glossing over everything terrible that has been done by Putin’s government. First, he says that the fighting mainly happens between West Ukrainians and East Ukrainians, but he conveniently doesn’t mention that people in the Donbass are forcefully conscripted, put into prisons and then are forced to participate in “meat assaults” under the barrel of a gun - that of Russian officers. Second, he says that Russian casualties are “only” tens of thousands. So, you just blindly believe the Russian statistics? For example, Russia passed a law according to which anyone can be pardoned of their criminal record if they get conscripted. The number of prisoners in Russian prisons has dropped by at least 150,000. And do you know how many of them die during assaults without weapons and with poor equipment? The “good” thing is that no one will look for them, so their casualties can be swept under the rug. There are pictures of cemeteries where you literally see new graves as far as the eye can see. This is not to mention that Russia is now in the middle of a new mobilization campaign, which would make no sense if they didn’t need new men. They are trying to mobilize 300,000 new conscripts, so where are the hundreds of thousands of men already mobilized? Why are you not asking basic logical questions? Third, which actually made me chuckle: Russia is apparently a conservative country! One of the highest rates of divorce and abortion in Europe, religiosity at around 8% according to polls. I mean, check these elementary facts before saying such nonsense! You are basically buying into Ru propaganda when you say Russia is some conservative bastion. Fourth, just an absurd notion that the fact that “Ukraine” means borderlands, it is somehow supposed to be part of Russia? Have you heard of Kievan Rus - if anything, Ukraine should have all of Russia then. Yeah, someone’s relative lives in Russia and the two countries are now at war. Is this the first time this happened? I mean go back to Yugoslavia. I’m sorry, this is not serious scholarship but just cherry-picked factoids that are so easy to expose as bearing little relation to reality. Oh, and no mention of all the genocidal rhetoric in Russia. People like Dugin calling for “murder, murder, murder,” hatred spewing from TV, the Kremlin-supported singer dressing like a literal Nazi (check Shaman). Basically ignoring FACTS. None of this is to say that I agree with whatever the Western governments are doing or Western media are saying. But come on, stop whitewashing Russian imperialism and militarism. You just sound like a tankie from the times of the Cold War, when some Western people were unhappy with their governments and saw some good alternative in the USSR, whitewashing all their horrific crimes. Interview a real historian like Antony Beevor.
Based on majority clueless comments here I have concluded that I need to vote for Trump. When Russia defeats NATO, they are defeating collective west's communist liberal ideology.
Friends, our world is in crisis. This is a multidisciplinary podcast, where I'm learning along with the viewers on how the various pieces fit together. Our living systems are all connected, influencing each other, co-evolving…energy, biosphere, human enterprise, war, egos, primal urges, in-groups, identity, psychology, ecology etc. - we cannot successfully address any of this in piecemeal. These issues will ALL be impacted - and in dramatic fashion, in the non-trivial event of the Russia/NATO situation in Ukraine expanding beyond a regional conflict. None of the pathways forward are good, but more people need to have a clear eyed, rational understanding of the risks and context to make better decisions. In short, talking about international military conflicts is not an asterisk or a side note - it is a part of the whole.
The Ukraine situation is incredibly complex and difficult and (imo) extremely dangerous. The comments on this thread are not completely surprising, but...surprising. I'll have a Frankly next week with some thoughts and integration. Here, I am pinning this comment as -for those unaware - there is (always) a link for show notes and references in the RUclips description and on our website: www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/114-chuck-watson (scroll below the video for links and time stamps). Additionally, Chuck Watson sent me a contextual note on the issue of 'casualties': linked here: static1.squarespace.com/static/61d5bc2bb737636144dc55d0/t/65f5e4579307603d324696b2/1710613591694/Chuck+Watson+Clarification+on+Casualties.pdf
I love my job despite its socially Sisyphean nature. I feel like I am playing a role in facilitating societal dialogue not only on a plethora of key, underrecognized societal issues, but also on their interrelationships. I have a staff of 3 and we are doing the best we can to scale functionality given tight timelines, nuance and high standards. The truth is, that truth is not a democracy. War in these times is only a choice between degrees of losing. ~Peace, Nate
Oh, Nate, you should have added a warning that by watching this episode one will be exposed to mis- and disinformation. I've lived as a neighbor to Soviet Union/Russia for more than 50 years, had some Russian-origin friends even, and my views of Russia and their "modus operandi" differs slightly from this dude's... He obviously talks BS on several occasions, in my opinion.
What he is most right about is that the Ukraine war is a resources war. 2/3 of the EU's "critical minerals" can be found in Ukraine. Putin knows the value of natural resources. Including those millions of hectares of fertile agricultural land in Ukraine.
I appreciate all you do, Nate, and I really value the variety of guests you invite on this podcast. Thank you for your hard work, grounded interview style, integrity, wisdom, and for the fact that you care about ALL beings, not just the humans. You are doing such important work!
You should’ve stopped the interview when it became evident that he’s just a Russia propagandist spreading misinformation.
These sort of topics need 10 plus hours to be done right. I think your show should stick with what it's good at. A 1 hour show with a whole lot of unsourced claims, mixed with multiple future predictions doesn't do anybody any good. I do not trust that guy.
Im one of the people who was furious listening to this. I understand Ukraine are losing and it appears Nato cannot match Russias firepower, and the Ukrainian casualties are much worse than reported. Because Chuck gets this right does not mean he is providing a balanced view. He so obviously is not. With his talks the not so subtle message is the West are unbalanced and irrational and Russia is measured. Of course, the opposite is true (who is threatening who with nukes). There are only terrible options for the West, none of which are our fault, despite what Chuck would have us believe. The best way to address this is to have someone on who does tell it like it is without this weird anti-western pro-russian bias so prevalent in the collapse-aware communities.
It is easy to resolve geopolitical issues when both sides negotiate in good faith. The UK and the US never negotiate in good faith, never have, never will.
True, but I think both Kiev and Moscow have long since decided that the pre-2014 border is simply not tenable as a long-term border (with continued tense relations). Kiev wants it changed too, they wanted to use this war both to leapfrog their way into the EU & NATO, and to push the border a decent bit east to grab some more Russian land - with the tacit approval of Uncle Sam, of course. But they can't afford to say this quite openly, because the war is dressed up as being (for them) "only a self-defence war". Now this strategy has seriously backfired and Ukra-NATO gets to pay the price.
I agree entirely and I'm English!
THE SO CALLED UK IS A SATRAP OF USA AND FOLLOWS ORDERS
100% right
@@Fleur-fg4nr You predicted the Kursk incursion!
Ending the war quickly is existential for Europe. But our politicians don't seem to have gotten the memo 😢
It seems the the EU are Vassals of the USA, yet the leaders seem blind to this reality. In the meantime, the US is taking the EU down. Can no one observe what's happening? Look at Germany if you need evidence. The US wants NO COMPETITION.
Not existential unless we are really watering down what that means. But yes, very important. For many reasons
@@Daniel_Martin777 As someone who grew up at the end of the Cold War, I find it alarming how easily the talk goes to “nukes” nowadays. We used to understand that such thoughts were extreme. Now they are thrown about far too casually. For example, you do realise that whether “ Portugal and Greece will not be nuked” is irrelevant, if the unthinkable actually happens? And why? Yes?
Ukraine can just surrender
@@AIainMConnachie I’ll explain: when, 80 years later, there are German tanks with Nazi crosses in the Donbass again, any normal person will decide that crazy psychopaths live in the West.
Why would anyone with a memory of the horrific Rumsfeld want his legacy valorized? He was a vicious criminal inal in foreign affairs.
He encouraged the torture in Abu Graib..Making light of it saying he stood at his desk for many hours at a time amongst other stories of encouragement.
U said it all but don't forget his chums Cheney and the Bush criminal family. U see pictures way back to Nixon and before with Rumsfelds ugly mug in the background as he climbed the slimy pole to reach his level of incompetence.
Now that's a known-known.
Rumsfeld was also a zionist jew
Chucks figure on Ukrainian losses look credible to me. In-line with trusted commentators like colonel a Douglas MacGregor!
Macgregor is a Russia tool who makes stuff up, including his claims on Ukrainian deaths. Let me know if you want the proof.
It is:
500,000 killed in action.
1.500.000 injured.
70.000 amputees.
This does not include Ukrainian colateral damage.
It is a shame to the whole of humanity, and specifically to the Western Cabal that provoced it.
@@vasilispatsalidis5683 Prove 500,000 Ukrainians KIA. I call BS. That is a fabricated number by Russian propaganda. And " the Western Cabal" did not surprise attack, invade and annex Ukraine. Putin and Russia did. The blood is on *your* hands.
@@vasilispatsalidis5683 Prove 500,000 Ukainian KIA. I call BS. That is a fabricated Russian propaganda number.
@@vasilispatsalidis5683 Prove 500,000 KIA.
I am sick of war.
It’s because you are of a sound mind. You are not insane like Lindsay Graham, Nuland and their ilk. Mthfkrs
The world is run on war, learn to live with it. I'm finally digesting reality, myself - the tragedy is beyond words.
Absolutely me too i wish those useless politicians would pick up their swag and go on a hike so to speak putting it politely
Sick of eu hypocrisy
I am sick and tired of greed. Do we have civilized people?
Only 70K views ? This brilliant conversation deserves 70 million views.
Seeing that there are reasonable people like you in the West gives me hope for the future of humanity.
Warm greetings from Saint Petersburg/Russian Federation!
Same from Serbia 😅👍
Best from Greece, Piraeus, stay strong!
Привет из Москвы!))👋
The Anglo-Fritzes that have renamed theselves to the "West", have no hope.
Their murderous world wide dictatorship is over.
Таких людей,мало, как эти два ,,sober men".
I have vital interest in this conflict and from a very beginning i watch it carefully trying to cut thru propaganda and missinformation coming from the both sides of the conflict. I am watching Chuck’s podcast for the very first time, but on a basis what i have learned so far, i would consider his view and commentary as credible and accurate.
Did you read and listen to Professor Mearsheimer ?
He predicted this conflict about 15 years ago.
So far, he is correct. 😢
Mr. Watson delivered an excellent neutral and academic analysis. Not just the geopolitical, but also the historical and slavonic.
GREAT DISCUSSION OVER AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN AGGRESSION ON RUSSIA 👌 👍👏👏💚
I’m gonna enjoy updating you guys. Someone on the ground in Kharkov said that early this morning, people were still exiting Kharkov, using all lanes. No lanes were open for incoming!!
Let Poland and France walk into this at their own cost and risk.
Thank you Nate. Thank you Chuck Watson. Neutrality Studies, The Duran, The New Atlas, and Dialogue Works are good sources.
If goods don't cross borders, eventually troops will cross borders.
Set up Europeans, and European nations against each other.
The "playbook" of the "rimlands" (geopolitics) Great Britain and the USA for more than 100 years. Read Mackinder (Pivot of History/1904) and Brzinzki's analysis of 1997.
Even Churchill was honest enough to admit that those who wish to understand the present, should analyze the past.
I recommend reading Timothy Snyder, professor of East European History at Yale University.
Mackinder's theory is what Russia is doing! 🤣 not "the West"
Russia is also on the way to destroy the dollar, using BRICS. Bye bye dollar & MAGA.
Evil UK imperialism
@@achenarmyst2156 Snyder is an intelligent historian, but during this war (like so many others) he has totally sided with the US neo-cons.
And it's true that both Washington and London love to have their wars fought thousands of miles away from their own shores, preferably by some proxies.
40:00 ' our leadership is bonkers' - abolutely.
I'm from Poland. Our society and politicians do not have any territorial claims towards Ukraine.
Problem for ordinary citizens now, is that responsible politicians and their mainstream media platforms no longer says what's really going on.
Yes, they saying what they want us all to believe 😢
They want a conflict with Russia to lure NATO into war, where Poland addresses issues of historical significance and revenge.
No Poland does not nor ANY of the neighbouring countries.
The people who live in these areas should decide and also where the Borders should be for security of all. No free for all.
Poland has much of old German lands too and should remember that.
Anyway Poland is looking for past glories and believes the West will yet again beat up the jungle.
At the end of the day, it's about resources and the West obtains them by devilish means.
I can tell you that the West will not 🚫 NOT succeed.
You might.not have but US does, you are cannon fodder for being US vassal eg NATO
Of course, they would not tell you!
Who listens to Lindsey Graham?
Tom Cotton
Lindsey Graham is a war criminal.
idiots?
Idiots, he doesn't know his home town is South Carolina is Ground Zero if the poo hits the fan.
Answer: judeo-zionist Putin ✡
With our drones in the Black sea coordinating attacks to Crimea... yes we are
Ukraine's much-hyped up attacks on Russian ships are two-thirds British jobs but presented as "only Ukrainian" for propaganda reasons. Britain has been assisting with mission planning, recon, missiles, logistical support - and in some cases (like the troop transport ship Moskva a month into the war) it was most likely really a British sub doing the job, but presented as a Ukro strike.
Britain itself didn't get around to sinking a single Russian or Soviet navy vessel for a hundred years between 1920 and 2021, despite seeing the Russians as a primary enemy for nearly all that time - the vicarious glee from many Britons over "Ukraine taking out Russian ships" is very telling.
Of course Russia knows the depth of the UK's involvement, but Moscow and London are playing diplomatic hide-and-seek over this for political reasons. Objectively speaking, Britain is at war with Russia and has been so for most of these two years.
Not for much longer according to Putin.
First of all, war is bad. So is unjustified and vindictive aggression. That being said, situations which lead up to war and acts of aggression are often not as simple as they are often made to seem. For instance, when Russia first attacked Ukraine, a common media meme immediately started flying around and could be heard on everyone's lips: "Russia bad, NATO/West/Ukraine good."
When recognizing the same meme on everyone's lips, it's always a good idea to dig a bit deeper to see if there's more to the story than is suggested by the meme that's being broadcast.
In this case, one did not have to dig very deeply to be able to listen to university and other reputable lecturers who addressed the history of the complex eastern Ukraine - western Russia border dispute: which dates back at least to 1991, and is intricately tied to the fall of the USSR, the Soviet's "peace" agreement with the Western powers, and NATO's existential threat to the newly developing Russian government.
What became crystal clear after this brief, historical study was made, is that Russia was no more the bad guy insisted on by the media meme, than the USA was the bad guy in the 1960s when we didn't want Soviet missiles aimed at Florida from the Soviet base in Cuba.
And in the same way that the USA threatened the Soviets with war if the Soviets set up a cuban missile base so close to our home, at least since 2014 Russia has been threatening the West that they would reclaim the Eastern lands of Ukraine if the West continued to set up NATO bases close to the Russian border.
But, in spite of this Russian threat, the West did continue to increase its NATO bases along Russia's western border, with the result that Russia finally acted good on its threat by invading eastern Ukraine. This, apparently, surprised only the uninformed.
Regarding the meme, the West/NATO/Ukraine were no more the good guys claimed by the meme, than any other treaty-breaking group of people: and treaty-breaking is what moving NATO bases along the Eastern European/Ukrainian-Russian border did to the 1991 treaty that the West had signed with Russia, promising not to set up NATO bases too close to Russia's border.
Learning this little bit about the - even more complex than what's been noted here - history of this Russian - Ukrainian war tempered my rush to condemnation of only one of the several parties involved.
But, like this episode's guest, trying to share the details of the back story to Russia's invasion of Ukraine with my very liberal and very progressive friends, caused them to loudly and aggressively silence any conversation that countered their uninformed belief in the truth of the meme's simplistic theme.
Thus began my two year period of muteness on this issue: along with the realization of - among many other things - how easily group think can be hoisted upon an otherwise educated and thoughtful group of people.
A good historic overview. Yes, keeping silent is toxic and distressing. I know this feeling too well
Consult a WW2 map of Ukraine.
The pro-banderite "intellectuals" are particularly disturbing.
I stopped reading at your "complex border issue". I remember the situation at Maidan, Ukraine 2014. It was a CIA and and the US Secretary of State Victoria Nuland orchestrated scenario which led to the situation today! It was planned and the intent was to bring Russia to it's knees, exchange Putin for a US-friendly guy, and break up Russia, the world's largest country with eleven time zones, into smaller pieces, just like US did with the former country of Yugoslavia in Europe! And what is the US doing now to Europe! Forcing it to become a US proxy in war against Russia, hoping many EU leaders will send their armies to Ukraine to become a cannon fodder, and then when enough Europeans have been slaughtered the ppl will be mad at the EU leadership in Brussels and one country after the other will do a Brexit, just like Britain did, and b/f you know it, the US has succeeded to break up the whole European Union, 530 million ppl, into small countries! Problem solved, no more big military or economic powers to threaten the US! Do you get it now???
All that and you fail to mention some basics. USA literally installed Nazis in the Kiev government in 2014. USA literally helped set up the Odessa Massacre on May 2nd 2014, to get the civil war going. Burning dozens of ethnic Russians alive.
Keep your watered down liberal whitewash to yourself.
Nate can you bring in economist/historian michael hudson, he has vast knowledge of history and economics, he has talked with steve keen a few times, he will make things realy clear. I hope to see michael someday on youre show!
Hudson is great, yes.
@@Hexanitrobenzene yeah people need to listen to Michael Hudson and the depth of what he is talking about, I thought daniel schmachtenberger was one of the only few that understood what we are doing at this moment, but Michael Hudson not only tells what we are doing but he explains the spells behind propaganda and double speak very well, and is fascinating. I honestly would recommend everyone to listen to him and invite him on podcasts, I almost don't see a more important speaker/historian than him. People recommend all kinds of people but Hudson has to get to main stream. Unbelievable that people like him and Daniel and a few others exist but are underappreciated or not known at all.
@@beingnonbeingincludesexistence
It's been a while since I myself have listened to Hudson... He was talking about the history of debt sometime in 2016, I guess.
With all do respect his analysis as to what the ultimate goal of the US aim is with Russia is absolutely wrong and flawed.
I would really, really like to hear Chuck's estimate on the actual death toll in Palestine. The numbers seem incredibly low based on the scale of devastation. I'd love to hear an actual expert's estimate on this who isn't tied to big media.
30ish thousand d ad are the only ones who have been officially documented. There's likely many more unmarked graves, people buried under rubble, secret mass graves like one recently found in a hospital yard....
Nate, the best objective discussion of this war in terms of what’s happening on the ground and what we don’t know is from “Perun” on RUclips. 1 hour PowerPoint from an Australian military economist who started his channel to play video games.
kiwilandia Vs emutopia who will win
I was also recommended this channel. Time to check it out.
Perun is a spinner for Nato. He will never give a positive remark on Russia even if iproof is under his nose
Tried it on your recommendation. I found it biased and flawed.
@@Fredmayve
Biased and flawed ? Huh. In what way ?
I found him very detailed. If there is any bias, it's out of average person's depth.
A good speaker is not one who says the things we want to hear. Chuck treads the path of analysis with caution and speaks from an informed standpoint. Those demanding his qualifications are mistaken. The only qualification needed is to be a human b3ing with an interest in human-interest issues. Thanks Nate. You are a very fair discussant.
Great guest. No histrionics, no hegemonic narrative mongering, just calm & rational discussion
Truly remarkable analysis from Chuck Watson, an ethical and knowledgeable man of truth, integrity, courage and pragmatism.
Sobering update indeed.
« Seeing what the underlying motives are. »
His perspective is correct.
Merci.
Paris
🙏🏼🕯🕯🙏🏼
Ethics of genocide. Knowledge of Russian imperial desires.
This conversation perfectly agrees with my understanding. Thanks for sharing it.
I look at whatever Chuck says with a big question mark. I have listend to Chuck 4-5hrs through this podcast. How do I know to have my doubts?
Bc I am from Iran and everything he says about Iran is either wrong or heavily distorted view. So let's not draw any conclusions here just based on his remarks.
Can you explain which points exactly are wrong? (I don't know anything about Iran unfortunately)
@@alliecravulz which of his remarks you want to know more?
Fascinating debate by two cool-headed, unemotional, if highly seasoned geopolitical analysts!
Check out The Duran and Glenn Diesen, if you haven't seen them before. But yes, there is a severe media blockage against voices that are able to think outside of the simple quasi-moralizing box scheme presented by G-NATO7 and their supporters.
Of everything you talk about Nate, ducks are what I want to hear more about.
Well, it would be nice to walk with Nate, and his dogs, and sharing his views of the natural world...which I think are as precious to him, as mine.
A small story of ducks helps the medicine go down
Hi, if you are American, you should also sent the duck message to your government. Strongly tell them to talk more about ducks and less about F16's and tanks.... we get was we vote for.
@Corrie-fd9ww My parents have a fruit garden close to a lake / large pond. When ripe apples fall from trees, ducks come to eat them. They can't start on a whole apple, but once wasps have broken the skin, it's easy for a duck s bill b to take m apart. They love it, fly straight into the garden when mum treows cut damaged apples on the lawn
Has Germany's role in this war been more complicated than we know.
I think the German government is internally rifted over this war. Miss Beerbock (FM) is a gung-ho neo-con, sort of, she's quite out and open about how "Russia must be beaten at all costs" and happy to serve the US. Scholz and Pistorius are more cautious and they have actually been blocking or slow-walking the delivery of support, weapons etc to Ukraine several times - even support from other EU coutries. I think they have realized, more or less, that Kiev has lost this in military terms, and that it's important for Germany not to get pulled in too deep - but they can't afford to be out and proud about this, about their efforts to slow down and pour cold water on the fire, because of German and EU loyalty to the US.
I respectfully disagree. 1) This is NOT a "civil war", it is an international conflict. Ukraine had been acknowleged by the whole world, wtihin the borders of 1991 If you put under questions existing borders, you will create chaos everywhere in the world! 2) As a Nation, Ukraine is far older than the US itself. 3) Russia is not the victim here! It is an aggressive empire, bullying ist neighbours, spreading oligarchy everywhere. 4) Dear Nate, I listen your podcast quite regularly, and I believe in your honesty. But this time you get it wrong. 5) As native German, I deeply disagree with Chuck when he says that Germans still want revenge for WW2. No we don't. And no one is more pro-Russian than neo-fascist and pro-Trump minded parties like the AfD.
I agree. I think that the guest is not truly sincere and clearly shows bias towards Russia. The topic today should be the possible threat of Nuclear war with all of its implications for society and the ecology of the entire planet. One siding this vs the other just increases tribalism.
Germany ran to the ICJ to dispute the horrors in Gaza. This can only be explained also by some attempt to deal with the WW2 after effects. You haven't had enough already?
You can tell a lot about a man by his friends. Tuckers interview was telling. Tucker desparately wanted to cast Putin as a kindred spirit, insead the interview showed how far apart evangelical christians, and other freedom loving MAGAS actually are from the zero freedom Russian federation. Yet because Putin "appeals" to their traditionalist values of family, religion, etc they ignore he is the exact opposite. The "family" is about providing meat for the Russian emipire. The russian religion is run by the state, for the state!
I am deeply ashamed about Germany's government's position towards Israel /Palestine. @@GregoryMatous
My simplist explanation: While Germany suffers from the absence of a genuine home-grown Jewish community, there is still is a very strong Israel-Lobby, which made common cause with (Western) German establishment since the 1950s. -- Just imagine the US with AIPAC twice as strong, but no traditional liberal Jewish community. --
Just run into this channel...very fine, neutral analysis. It's reassuring to see the catalog of channels that dedicate to unbiased discussions and analysis, growing bigger and bigger. I'll recommend this to friends and family. Please keep up the good work, man!
31:33 Ok Nate, I've been a long time listener and love your work, but you absolutely *need* to fact check this yourself. Your guest just said that Poles are saying that once Polish soldiers are in Ukraine they will never leave, because "it's our land, our people". I beg you, please search for any source of this and reconsider if you still trust this person.
I am a Pole and *nobody* says that here. Nobody here in Poland thinks of western Ukraine as "our land". This kind of logic is a logic that drives Putin, but nobody in Poland thinks this way.
The right side of the political scene may been thinking about that some time ago... There is even OKO.Press article "Zagrywki z rozbiorami" about that...
@@Kolmir I read that article. It very clearly states that this is Putin's propaganda and "an offer" to Poland that nobody here really takes seriously.
I completely agree with you. I've listened to all the Great Simplification podcasts, and this is the first one I can remember, where I think he has either a bad guest or a vast majority of other sources are wrong. But even common sense can catch this guy. His comment that Russia is only using North Korean shells is because they're saving all their good stuff for NATO! I'm calling BS on that. And ofc their saving lots of things, take nukes for example, but they used up the storage they were willing to part with, that's why they started using Iranian drones and NK shells.
I strongly doubt that Poland as a member of the EU would just go and take the north west of Ukraine. Really would like to hear/see sources for that statement.
You're wrong. I've been to Poland in 2019 and I heard a number of people refer to Lvov as a "Polish city"
Hi, Nate I like your podcast. Usually you have people here who seem to well informed and can show some research to support their claims.
I always assume that I can be under informed, or misinformed.
@30:54 This guy makes some outrageous claims about Polish forces planning to move our forces into Ukraine and apparently having some forces already there and not planning to leave....
Where is any evidence for that except for Putin's propaganda ?
Chuck's claims that Poland is preparing to take over Western Ukraine and may already have troops on the ground here, are pretty wild. I am Polish, follow the conflict from Polish perspective pretty closely, and there isn't a hint in the media of anything like it - apart from one article from TASS last year, but they of course have a vested interest in saying so. Furthermore, I would be shocked by anyone in Polish political class being capable of such boldness. Our politicians are your typical democratically elected representatives - lacking vision and initiative, focusing on putting out immediate fires while preserving their base of votes for the next election. Huge and extremely risky moves are simply not in their blood.
Nowhere in the interview does Chuck cite his sources on this matter. It's a shame Nate didn't press on this, because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - or at least some evidence, whereas in this case, Chuck provided none.
almost everything he's claiming is nonsense made in his fantasy world.
Polish gov't is playing clever game fooling Ukraine and the rest of the world. Ukraine, the current gov't, gave polish citizens enormous rights and privileges (Google it)
It’s well known Polish troops re badged are in Ukraine at various levels
@@seanmoran2743Well known by who? Can you point us to any proofs?
Poland called for an escalation of the conflict with Russia
Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said that the West should not be afraid to take extreme steps, not excluding the introduction of NATO forces into Ukraine.
“The presence of NATO troops in Ukraine is not unthinkable, “because the point is that Putin is afraid, not we are afraid of Putin,” said the head of the diplomatic department.
I would very much like to hear Mr Watson respond to what Martti J. Kari (former intelligence colonel in the Finnish Defence Forces) has to say about Russia. Remember, the Finns have been very clear about their neutrality for many years. It is only the Ukraine conflict that changed this.
"The Polish hate the Ukrainians only slightly less than they hate the Russians" - what an absolutely bizarre statement. The Polish have taken millions of refugees, far more than any other country have. As a regular visitor to Krakow, i see the support him first hand. Chuck Wilson has this weird pro-putin stance that's so common in the systems dynamics community. Its always made me squirm.
On the other hand thousands of Polish people stand on the border scaring incoming Ukrainian refugees with fake air raid sirens and physically blocking Ukrainian exports.
Russia has taken more refugees than Poland.
You have a lot more squirming ahead of you!
Very dissappointed in Nate for allowing this pro-Putin apologist to have an open mic on his show for an hour. Ridiculous.
@@triplikeido75 Someone actually recommended this podcast and within five minutes he calls the conflict (invasion) in Ukraine a "Civil war" and states that "Leaving aside the issue as to whether the invasion is right or wrong doesn't matter". Rubbish, avoiding the fundemental reason why we're in this proxy war in the first place is because Russia are invading an independent country. Had this not had happened, we wouldn't be in the proxy war. Ergo, his whole argument is based on avoiding one point which is critical to the debate.
Won't be spending any longer here.
First guest I’ve been unimpressed with. I’m no war monger and hope for deescalation but I all I heard here was a lot of sympathy towards Russias point of view.
Putin is an ex KGB tyrant who wants to constantly expand russias boarders . As simple as that.
I’m from the UK and last year had a young brother and sister from the Ukraine working for me for a few months. They were pretty unimpressed with Putin sympathisers.
Not to mention abandoning NATO and Ukraine seem to be the one thing that unite the hard left and the hard right . Like trump and his clan.
Of course all countries have their own interest but the idea that European nations were looking for a conflict on their doorstep is nonsense . Governments have been shrinking armies while desperately trying to shore up welfare states, pensions etc.
We weren’t and arnt ready for conflict.
Showing weakness and division to Putin is exactly what he wants . He’d love trump back in power and there seemed to my mind a lot of sympathy for Putins wishes within this discussion.
I also dislike the notion that if you want to stand up to a tyrant you’re somehow bellicose & desperate for a nuclear exchange.
Respect as always to Nate for what he does. Just can’t get on board fully with these ideas here.
No, it's never "as simple as that". Chuck is not a "Putin sympathiser" by any stretch of the imagination; he's simply trying to explore the under-discussed intricacies of what is definitely a very complex scenario. Don't oversimplify it by trying to portray it as an 'us vs them' thing. [Check out Robert Sapolsky talking about oxytocin.]
One of the biggest problems in the world today is our inability to set aside our own biases to truly understand a different perspective. Doing that doesn't mean you agree with the other perspective. Check out Daniel Schmachtenberger's work on sensemaking.
Have you listened to Chuck's other conversations with Nate? I believe they give a totally different impression of where he really stands with regards to warmongering, global conflict, nuclear weapons, etc.
How about substantiating your fantasy speculations and contentions with verifiable evidence ?
Russia has no right to invade Ukraine, only you forget to mention a few things, like the violent overthrow of the democratically elected president of Ukraine Victor yanakovic by the CIA and western intelligence, more then 13000 Russia speaking Ukrainians were killed burned to death.
Russia is not against a neutral Ukraine, Russia wanted a neutral Ukraine and Ukraine can do business with everybody. Russia was quite clear on that, but you can't put nato artillery and hypersonic missiles on the border of Ukraine/russia which can hit Moscow within 10 minutes, also Victoria Nuland admitted that the west had put biological facilities funded by the military industrial complex on the borders of Russia/Ukraine, which is a direct threat to Russia national security, Putin is more of a realist then ideological and saw this as a direct threat, which also means that Ukraine is not neutral.
the minsk agreement should not be forgotten, it was an agreement that nato should not expand military in Ukraine, business yes military noo. Angela Merkel (was prime minister of Germany) said in her own words: the minsk agreement was only there to stall time and fool Russia so that America/Ukrainian (ultra nationalists) could built weapons and armaments in Ukraine on the borders of Russia.
I know what would happen if Belgium did this to Germany, Netherlands, France. or mexico to the USA , we would destroy Belgium and mexico if they put Chinese weapons or Russian armenents on our borders. Don't forget we in the west have done worse things to other countries for far less.... Putin's knows that very well and feels justifiably that we want to take over Russia, because our financial sector needs constant war and land grabs to keep the money flow going, Russia is sitting on the largest land mass oil/gas and other rare earth minerals, we should not forget Napoleon and Hitler bot western and both wanted to grab Russias land, this should not be forgotten. Russia has the right to worry about that and when needed defend themselves, it doesn't justify the invasion, but there are other games being played that we in the west do not see, Putin is not stupid and has vast resources he might know things you don't know, we know for a fact check out the Oakland institute who owns Ukraine land and grains, our multinational corporations prey on Ukraine's land and Russia's land, we changed Russia into an oligarchy after the Soviet union, using shock therapy on Russia's economy and destabilize it so that an oligarchy could arise in Russia.
Many of the worlds problem have been created by us by the west, and we should look really into history etc etc, if we want to get out of this mess.
Slava Rossiya.
@spos6893
Look at reality, not the headlines. Which country has murdered the most civilians in, say, the past 20 years? 500,000 Iraqis alone and that doesn't include another 500,000 who died due to sanctions. And that's just one war of several. This country also was involved with the death of 250,000 Yemeni. The list goes on.
And do western European countries support that country? Indeed they do, no questions asked.
Nate, I would doubt many of your guest's affirmations if I were you. His estimates of casualties on the Ukrainian side is higher than even the Russian army's own estimates, which most people suspect are propaganda. Satellite imagery of cemetaries is far from a scientific assessment, and social media is quite unreliable. Of course a larger proportion of Ukrainians have lost someone in the war: Ukraine's population is less than a third of Russia's. Cemetaries also would be more scattered in Russia's immense territory.
Ich bin aus Ost-Deutschland und beschäftige mich mit der Thematik seit dem Ausbruch des Krieges. Die hier dargestellten Zusammenhänge sind verkürzt, weisen große Lücken auf und beinhalten nicht belegte Behauptungen. Ich empfehle jedem zu dem Thema weiter zu recherchieren, denn nur eine genaue Analyse (Geschichte, Hintergründe, aktuelles Framing,...) führt zu Ergebnissen, die es erlauben Schlüsse zu ziehen, die einen realistischen Lösungsansatz ermöglichen. Beste Grüße
I am an 84 year old New Zealander now living in Australia. Thank you for talking so much sense.
I ALSO RESEARCH DEEPLY THE CONFLICT IN UKRAINE... So far, I have no issue with what Chuck offers, its correct. Ukraine has already lost this war and this is wholly unsurprising... the idea that Ukraine could ever have won was ridiculous. War is about logistics once the battle fronts are established. Ukraine never had the logistical superiority nor did NATO. Russia always had the industrial base and raw materials to ramp up its production and a willing population from which to create its army. Russia has achieved complete readiness... capable of taking on NATO if required. A conflict Putin DOES NOT WANT but has had to accept may well be necessary.
Straight out of the Russian propaganda playbook…
"Ukraine has already lost?" Sorry, comrade, but last I checked, in a war that was supposed to last days, the blue and gold is still flying over Kiev, Zelensky is still president, and the Ukrainian army still fights in the field. Russia has failed to overthrow the Ukrainian government, has failed to "de-nazify" Ukraine (a stupid assertion to begin with), has failed to defeat the Ukrainian army, has failed to even take the territory it claimed to have annexed.
Putin's folly has already been a huge win for the US and NATO, even if Ukraine were to surrender tomorrow. Putin's war on Ukraine has decimated the Russian military, exposed the myth of Russian military greatness, united what was a fractured NATO alliance, expanded NATO's presence hundreds of miles along the Russian border with the addition of Sweden and Finland after decades of their neutrality (even freaking Switzerland is sending support for Ukraine), and isolated Russia politically and financially except for a few like minded fascist states like North Korea and Iran.
These are all things Russia has worked for decades to avoid. All so effectively accomplished in just a year by Putin's blunder.
Not sure how anyone can reasonably call that Ukraine losing.
Nah, just from your prideful ignorance
What about strategic outlook for russia? Demography, sanctions, lack of investments, inability to replenish the equipent they are now utilizing at full capacity, frozen reserves, leak of brains, closed western markets, stopped scientific cooperation, growing muslim population, etc? For me it is evident Russia will choke on Ukraine...
Last I checked, in a war that was supposed to last days, the blue and gold is still flying over Kiev, Zelensky is still president, and the Ukrainian army still fights in the field. Russia has failed to overthrow the Ukrainian government, has failed to "de-nazify" Ukraine (a stupid assertion to begin with), has failed to defeat the Ukrainian army, has failed to even take the territory it claimed to have annexed.
Putin's folly has also been a huge win for the US and NATO, even if Ukraine were to surrender tomorrow. Putin's war on Ukraine has decimated the Russian military, exposed the myth of Russian military greatness, united what was a fractured NATO alliance, expanded NATO's presence hundreds of miles along the Russian border with the addition of Sweden and Finland after decades of their neutrality (even freaking Switzerland is sending support for Ukraine), and isolated Russia politically and financially except for a few like minded fascist states like North Korea and Iran.
These are all things Russia has worked for decades to avoid. All so effectively accomplished in just a year by Putin's blunder.
Not sure how anyone can reasonably call that Ukraine losing.
This was great. Thank you!
Thank you from a Russian, Nate. Very nice to hear minds out of propaganda
Yeah, bet you voted for Putin - congrats on that "election"
Watson is literally spewing Russian propaganda.
Line Poland wanting to get Western Ukraine. There are multiple polish people calling him out on it. And he said many more lies like that.
The underlying salient reality here is that it is only a select few INDIVIDUALS in these conflicts that are making the decisions. IF the issue was presented to a genuine plebiscite, a collective unambgious majority would cry a resounding STOP! That is the truly scary part. Are most of us merely passengers on a runaway bus driven by lunatics!?
True, some lunatics are extremely difficultto get rid of, unfortunitely.
That's exactly the case and it was the case during the most of humanity's history. It's very tragic and depressing - we can't have any influence on the way things going to turn out. Non at all.
This is a type of comment that can be condensed to „peace is better than war“ which is true but banal.
Sorry, but you need some political analysis: Russia is the aggressor who clearly acts against international law out of purely nationalistic-imperialistic motifs combined with ressource grabbing.
The genuine plebiscite was the 1991 poll where over 90% of Ukranians voted for national independence, with majorities even in the Donbas and Crimea. This war ends as soon as Russia respects internationally acclaimed borders.
He says that Russia doesn't want "all of Ukraine" because this has been made very clear from their statements. Didn't the russian government shortly before invading Ukraine say that their troops at the border are just there for exercise and no invasion will take place? As a German I get strong "No one has the intention of building a wall" vibes here. This interview leaves me quite puzzled. I would've probably learned more if it was more of a debate between him and say someone like Vlad Vexler
"troops at the border are just there for exercise and no invasion will take place". It is what Russia had been heard for many years about NATO expansion before invitation of Ukraine and Georgia in 2008 . "Don't worry, missile bases in Romania and Poland are against Iran, it's not against you, we are defensive alliance, we are for world peace, our NATO instructors in Ukraine are just for fun."
@@German-hv9nv what's your point?
@@LarsRichterMedia My point is that statements doesn't mean nothing. Real moves and actions should be taken into account.
@@German-hv9nv that's exactly what I said? They claimed it's just exercise, then invaded. The guest in this interview claims that Russia doesn't want all of Ukraine because their statements made it clear. As you say and as I pointed out, statements are one thing, actions another.
@@LarsRichterMedia
Russia tried to take Kyiv on the first days of invasion. Of course they would take all Ukraine, if they could.
No wonder they call this guy a Putin fanboy; everything he said was straight from the pages of Russia Today.
Truth hurts.
yes it's disgusting that he's being platformed by a scientist
@@jthadcast if it’s so disgusting, watch something that “tickles your fancy”.😂
@@davehendricks4824 and so i have, nate's gateway to inversion table therapy and a nice apocalyptic anime, not at the same time of course and the notification of your comment a mere blip.
@@jthadcast good.
Every European should listen to Mr.Watson.
This interview needs to be fact checked. There are a lot of serious assertions that seem shaky at best.
You do not give a single actual example. So I am afraid your credibility is rather low.
Of course it needs to be fact checked. However, might I suggest a comprehensive review of the history of NATO and the Cold War, starting with George F. Kennan? His autobiography (2 volumes) is readily available and quite readable. As far as my own research and fact checking goes, Chuck is spot on with all his assertions. As just one example, The Guardian had multple articles on Boris Johnson going to Kyiv on April 9, 2022 and telling Volodymyr Zelenskyy that if he accepted the Istanbul proposal, the US and UK would stop funding him and sending weapons.
@@wvhaugen oh man here come the experts. Everything totally checks out. Thanks guys! Ukraine's not even its own country anyway right? It should just accept the loving embrace of mother russia.
@@rohitparikh8132 okay when did the Luhansk region design the Iskander missile system and the means to produce them? They've been using them a lot in this "civil war".
@@rohitparikh8132 "the West of Ukraine prefer to belong to Russia", "Polish people hate Ukrainians only slightly less than Russians", "the West are irrational, crazed, bonkers, Russia is reasonable, measured, despite threatening to nuke Europe every week". I paraphrased that last one. Chuck came across as unhinged.
Poland supports Ukraine not out of revanchism but survival instinct. Putin wants to dial back the time, East Europeans are terrified by the prospect.
@KosmicKitchen
Where's the proof of that? Otherwise it's just a statement.
@@original_poster Proof of what?
@@original_poster Where's the proof of the insane statements made by Nate's guest?? Oh.. pro-Putin apologists don't need to provide evidence.. right.
If you can't figure out what I mean, forget it.
@@KosmicKitchen... 😂 u m
Great person is Chuck. He stated the obvious so clearly. It looks like everyone is blind today to reality.
Russia is using the same tactics in Ukraine that worked in Georgia and Armenia. They invaded the Donbass and Crimea in 2014 under thinly veiled excuses, and the West let it happen, just like in Georgia. The simple fact is, Russia is the one that crossed the border into Ukraine. Ukraine didn’t invite them, and Ukraine has been fighting them tooth and nail ever since. Ukraine has a right to be independent. As to motives in the West, few people claim our intentions are pure, but that doesn’t mean Russia has a right to invade Ukraine.
Russia defended themselves and their neighbors against a NATO takeover. Russia have known since 2007 that this was a coordinated Nato attack against Russia. As you can see, Russia prepared themselves well, and are not very pressured in any way so far.
Unfortunately the western population is fed liberal propaganda about Russia to gain support for an escalation, and people unfortunately still buying the 'unprovoked invasion' story.
People need to watch the truth themselves: ruclips.net/p/PL6-hcqTF_eSc6PIdk3QIwtoxtTK1wr30y
did Cuba have a right to align with the USSR and defend itself?
... Iraq
imagine this. Yugoslavia=Ukraine=Georgia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo=Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia, NATO/Europe/USA=Russia. Now Yugoslavia - evil state, Ukraine and Georgia - fighters for freedom and democracy for the sake of the whole world, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo - fighters for freedom, independence and democracy, Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia - separatists and terrorists backed by evil power. NATO/Europe/USA - good powers, Russia - evil power. UN didn't give permission NATO/Europe/USA to back Kosovo in 1999 and for Russia to back Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia. No sanctions at all for Europe/USA. Unprecedented sanctions for Russia. UN wouldn't have given permission to back Croatia, Bosnia earlier if it wasn't for Russia's weak position at the time. People killed in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo are the victims of evil power. People killed in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia can be ignored. What tactics have been using NATO/Europe/USA in Yugoslavia and Ukraine for many years and what for? Why Ukraine is better than Yugoslavia? Why defending people in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia is an aggression but defending people in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo is a noble honorable deed?
imagine this. Yugoslavia=Ukraine=Georgia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo=Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia, NATO/Europe/USA=Russia. Now Yugoslavia - evil state, Ukraine and Georgia - fighters for freedom and democracy for the sake of the whole world, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo - fighters for freedom, independence and democracy, Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia - separatists and terrorists backed by evil power. NATO/Europe/USA - good powers, Russia - evil power. UN didn't give permission NATO/Europe/USA to back Kosovo in 1999 and for Russia to back Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia. No sanctions at all for Europe/USA. Unprecedented sanctions for Russia. UN wouldn't have given permission to back Croatia, Bosnia earlier if it wasn't for Russia's weak position at the time. People killed in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo are the victims of evil power. People killed in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia can be ignored. What tactics have been using NATO/Europe/USA in Yugoslavia and Ukraine for many years and what for? Why Ukraine is better than Yugoslavia? Why defending people in Donbass, Ossetia, Abkhazia is an aggression but defending people in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo is a noble honorable deed?
Valuing your input, I have concerns regarding this episode. I would argue that you could be running some reputational risk (outside of USA) with your continued engagement with Watsons' views on geopolitics. You have interviewed many different specialists on specific climate change themes but continue (obsessively??) to run with one person's interpretation of an american-centric geopolitical 'truth'. A brief review of the comments to this podcast suggests that there is a general consensus that many of Watson's comments could be incorrect. The idea that Wagner forces in Africa have been "assisting, providing security assistance and training" is laughable. "400/ 500.000" Ukr civilians dead - Only "Tens of thousands" Russian casualties?? That we should be "fair" that Putin is not a dictator?? "Revenge" as a motive (German WWII )?? This sentence makes no logical sense - "Russia has every right already under international law, leaving aside the issue of whether the invasion is right or wrong, none of that matters" - In terms of justice, how can it not matter? If the occupied 'eastern' Ukrainians are largely the ones fighting against 'western' Ukrainians, why bother with conscription in Russia? That "Russia doesn't want all of Ukraine" is a myth - Putin has publicly stated otherwise.
Throwing eastern Europe back under a repressive Russian regime is not a humane solution. You appear to be subscribing to a Longtermist philosophy which is concerning? You maintain that you are just two people who care about the future and complex life. To ensure that nuclear exchange does not take place, and complex life continues, ditch Ukr. What quality of life of others/ Ukrainians/ Eastern Europeans, are you willing to sacrifice to maintain this (your) complexity? Given the horrors of the Putin invasion inflicted on Ukr, do you not think that appeasing this brutality would have an influence on future complex life. If Hitler had won WWII, we would still have complex life, but only for a privileged minority white - LGBTQI plus, black, gypsy, Jew or other be damned. Would it be too much to ask for another, non-American (European) perspective on this topic to make sure that you are not being geopolitically one-sided (blind)? Also, truth has always been a key component of this podcast that offers great value. Please can you fact check the above assertions made by Watson. If you find them to be incorrect, why would Watson be pushing them? Why would you be pushing Watsons view?
I fully agree. I'm so sorry that Nate trusted this man.
YES!!
Excellent comment. I hope Nate reads this. He pretty much gave an open mic to a pro-Putin apologist for an hour. I'm not sure that I'm interested in listening to anything Nate has to say at this point..
As a Ukrainian I want to say thank you for this comment.
WHEN DOCTORS OR POLICEMEN TAKE TO LONG TO FIND THE EPIDEMIC OR CRIMINAL IT WOULD ONLY AFFECT THE PATIENT OR THE COMPLAINTANT
Chuck Watson states that for Russia, the war is existential and that they cannot "lose." I've heard this before, but I would have liked for your guest to have expanded on this or been questioned, because at least on the surface, while Putin and many in Russia may believe it is existential, I do not see that. Why couldn't Ukraine stay whole, decide who they want to ally with economically and politically (ironically, I suspect that if Russia were not ruled by an autocrat, many Ukrainians would prefer to be allied with Russia rather than the west), and Russia also survive intact? There could be an agreement that Ukraine would not join Nato. I don't see the existential threat, well maybe because of this war there is, but I'm sure were Russia to "lose" - retreat to Russian borders and cease hostilities - Russia would eventually lose the pariah status and be better positioned to sell its oil and mineral wealth to a needy world.
The war is existential for Ukraine, because if it loses it loses its country and culture. The only Russian this is "existential" for is Putin.
Wow what a cool speaker. I am listening a lot on this topic. This is calmly presented, a profound analysis. Thumbs up!
Wait, so this guy has Russian TV on in the background, a Russian orthodox pendant on his table, says the Ukraine war is civil war, and muses about Russia attacking France in French territory? This is so weird I CANNOT believe it's not a setup.
Yeah, and a russian orthodox calender on the wall. Very suspect guy.
nate is gaslighting everyone here and losing credibility in cherry picking a liberal idiot.
How do you guys know if its Russian and not Ukrainian?...
LET THE IDIOT WALK...
Yet his analysis is very similar to Mearsheimer's and Mearsheimer is 100% committed to the maintenance of US dominance. What would you call the years from 2014 to 2021 when Ukraine bombed the Donbass killing 14,000 of its own citizens?
@@scottfortune1014 right the little green men of Ukraine not russian backed terrorists s/
A grown up debate? That's very refreshing, well done gentlemen, well done
Just found this channel and found it fascinating and honest which is very hard to find these days thanks
You should get Vlad Vexler, Jonathan Fink (from Silicon Veil podcast where he talks daily in-depth with academics and journalists about the war), or Mark Galeotti on to provide a counterpoint to this narrative. Someone here keeps posting the same reply about watching John Mearsheimer for support of Chuck’s arguments, but there are some major problems with Mearsheimer ’realist’ view - mainly ignoring that foreign policy in especially dictatorships often has more to do with domestic power politics. Putin likes to use the narrative of Nato enlargement to justify his expansionist policy - that doesn’t mean it should be taken at face value. The fact that the Mearsheimer video blew up like it did on youtube after the invasion began is not an organic coincidence - it supports the Russian narrative. Threatening nuclear war is also a conscious strategy - but giving in to that kind of blatant blackmail will only encourage more of it going forward.
Watching Russian propaganda TV can be very informative, if you want to see the kind of narratives that the Russian regime is pushing domestically. Russian Media Monitor is a good channel that subtitles clips from Russian state TV. Of course there is propaganda on all sides, but there are some real qualitative and quantitative differences between what we are served in the west, and what the average Russian viewer is marinating in on a daily basis
Well duh. Zelensky is a dictator.
@@hughjorgan7871 Russian trolls turning up I see. Congrats Nate, they see the propaganda window you opened.
@@hughjorgan7871 Welcome to the new audience Chuck Watson has brought you, Nate.
this discussion is liberal twaddle and disgusting framing.
WHEN DOCTORS OR POLICEMEN TAKE TO LONG TO FIND THE EPIDEMIC OR CRIMINAL IT WOULD ONLY AFFECT THE PATIENT OR THE PLANTIFF
You nailed it Nate. I studied Russian language in the mid 80' for the sole purpose of becoming an orthopaedic surgeon and find my Russian language teachers great people and friendly though I didn't make it but memories lingers
NATO is a war monger group out to rob and steal resources using the democratic narrative. Keep your civilisation to yourselves, as we all know where Christianity originates from Read our Bible and you will be surprised the Europeans are liars. God didn't create white people. Facts are there in the Bible no wonder the whites don't like to hear the truth and hate everyone else
Correction: Russia is not a tottarian state
Nate: I am sorry, you fumbled what ball with this interview. Your guest arrogantly, in my view, fails to recognize the Ukrainian people as having any agency within their own story. While he may have had expertise on Russia, his knowledge of Ukraine is lacking. His analysis is dangerously oversimplified, which surprised me given your efforts generally to expose us to the complex interconnectedness of the material world. Ukrainians are a people with a deeper place in history than Russia itself; it is a sovereign nation with a democratically elected government (as verified by international observers and recognized by countries of the world). The sovereign people of Ukraine collectively chose a path of liberalism over illiberalism even in the face of the authoritarian imperialist state next door. This is the true threat to the Putin regime, having a model state of Slavic cousins with such potential right on its border. Russia invaded to shore up the Putin regime and its leader's egoic vision of his destiny. Ukrainian people have only one choice---to continue fighting or face genocide.
That's why an estimated 650,000 Ukrainian men of fighting age fled the country when this conflict began.
@@johnbanach3875 Whose estimate is that? Margarita Simonyan?
Nate doesn't need to provide any answers to his viewers. You're can go elsewhere for a different point of view, including all the propaganda.@@HoboGoblinCat
@@johnbanach3875 and what about the estimated 900,000 Russians that have emigrated since the start of the war?
Agency? When the US has been directing this war up to now and Boris Johnson made Zelensky reject the first peace plan? Putin miscalculated badly by invading, under a flimsy pretext, and it has, as always, lasted far longer than the generals thought it would. But it did not start in 2022 just as the Gaza catastrophe did not start on Oct 7th. These are narratives the West constructs to justify its war machine. Western values vs the rest does not hold up to any scrutiny. Did you read the recent developments about the Maidan Massacre?
How old are you, Nate Hagens?
Where Watson errs is that Luhansk and Donetsk militias are either conscripted and/or are soldiers because there is no other work available, whereas on the Ukraine side you have a lot of people volunteering to serve either in frontline positions or in support roles, like combat medic. There is a difference. In this regard it is not a civil war in the sense of people fighting for their own destiny and determination; however, it might be considered a civil war in the sense that oligarchs that arose upon the fall of the USSR and who now control the heavy industry in Ukraine have aligned themselves with either Ukrainian or Russian interests. Watson also doesn't seem to fully understand how Russia is a mafia state as elucidated so plainly by Masha Gessen. To understand the mafia state, one needs to look outside the wealthy Moscow and St Petersburg cities and see how corrupt the system is at siphoning extractive wealth back to the Moscow elites. It is simply imperialism in the traditional mold of what European countries were doing in Africa at the turn of the century.
Very well said. Also, Watson and Hagens never truly go into the political and society disruption in 2013 with Yanukovych and his cronies. The people of Ukraine had enough of the lies and theft by his government and deceitful policies.
@@franklebowski9728... they also forgot to mention that the US spent something like 3 billion dollars on a destabilization campaign within Ukraine leading up to that coup - a lot of it went to far-right opposition political parties and the manipulation of public opinion.
good to see some one from the north west fronter sticking up for Ukraine - i worried strike+mike+rambot had turned every one i know into a NasBol
None of that has bearing on the conflict today except to say Ukraine has the same type of politics. What you describe is actually another reason the war has been bad for the west as the oligarchs money is now staying in Russia more and not being laundered to the west.
The staying power of propaganda is amazing.
This is so disappointing (and I am a big fan of the podcast) that from now on I will truly question all of you next guests. You need to fact check, I live in Bulgaria and am very familiar with Russian propaganda talking points. This guy is so boating, he did not come up with any new conspiracy. Very disappointing that you would bring up such a person…
To understand Ukraine you need to understand US foreign policy. The Americans don't care about Ukrainians. They are just Nato triggermen. Start by googling "Wolfowitz doctrine" and "full spectrum dominance."
@@MurrayLake I'm an American and I care Ukraine and it's people.
I'm always happy to hear the different perspectives of the guests that Nate has on, even if I disagree with them. And I found myself disagreeing with Chuck a lot (based on a position of relative ignorance, to be sure).
Hm, if don't have any arguments?
It's mean that you need to start researching?!
I love Nate podcast when it's about energy, ecological overshoot, or the climate crisis. But this kind of episode makes me wonder of the quality of the whole channel...
Everything is interconnected. You cannot be concerned about energy supply or the environment (global warming?) without also being concerned about potential forever wars chewing vast holes in our human capabilities to manage those other things. How much oil was used to create those 10 destroyed ships? Or the 2000 destroyed tanks? Or those 10,000 150 lb bombs? Or the million artillery shells? Or to rebuild an entire country? And what about the people. It all matters a lot. Foreign policy is very important.
It's important to hear and consider counter-narratives, and I do hold some views about Ukraine that are not part of the popular discourse in the USA. However, there's a lot about this guy's perspective that, in my opinion, doesn't add up and runs contrary to what I hear from serious military analysts. While I appreciate the need for outside perspectives, I also appreciate the need for accuracy.
Fact checking is needed. I have no idea who this Watson character is, and searching the web there is not much out there. He is patently incorrect on a number of his comments and his historical recognition of Ukrainian/Russian history is very sloppy. An example of his comments regarding the Crimean war (1850's) and the British still being focused on the war is ridiculous. War atrocities committed against Poland in WW2 were perpetrated by the Nazi's and the Soviet Union. Ukraine has longed for it's own liberty for hundreds of years and has seemly ended up on the receiving end of destruction, famine, occupation and oppression from different powers of the day dating hundreds of years.
I also question his casualty numbers for both Ukraine (especially) and Russia. Both governments are trying to keep the actual numbers down, but looking at many other sources, Russia has a large number of dead and rotting in the fields of the Donbas. Oryx also gives an excellent account of military equipment destroyed and verifies the numbers.
Closing, I feel there is too much to fact check with this guy, and he certainly sounds like a fan boy of Russia himself. Until we see his "facts", I will look towards other sources being more affable.
You might want to watch Afghanistan: The Great Game (2012) with Rory Stewart. It is on RUclips. That is what Chuck referenced in one of his comments on "the great game." I could go on with many of Chuck's comments, but I am sure you get the picture. It is not a case of alternative facts at all. It is a case of making some analyses with imperfect information. Poker players do this kind of reasoning all the time.
You need to check facts all right.
“…British being focused on the war.”
Question: didn’t Boris Johnson fly to Kiev to stop Zelensky agreeing to a peace deal? Haven’t the British been sending arms ro Ukraine?
Fact checking for your spin?
Could you please specify?
The guest is super interesting and thank you for bringing him on, I just think that you as a host keep jumping in and talk about other topics and your own take and you don't let the guest talk as extensive as he could and the result is that we as the subscribers of your channel only get fragments of his answers.
Hello Nate,
Sorry but this was a disgrace.
It is beyond comprehension that you could hurt your show’s credibility to that extent. Why on earth have Russia Today’s mouthpiece on ?
As all your European fans I am constantly reminded that Americans have very little grasp of our continent’s history, geography, ideas and beliefs, but it’s ok because we understand that you are looking at things from a US standpoint, even though that makes you miss out on lots of interesting initiatives relevant to climate and energy that are happening in Europe.
But this episode was just unbearable, facts wrongs, analyses misleading if not delusional, and altogether frankly scary. One wonders whether your guest even bothered to look up what he was commenting on.
Let’s put it this way : I do hope that you will take it to heart to concentrate on hosting the brilliant scientists that have made your show such an interesting one so far, and relevant to all on this planet.
Hi veroniquebazille9268. Chuck's perspective is pretty solid, and in line with respected scholars (e.g. check out talks by John Mearsheimer). Mainstream media are about as reliable on geopolitical reality as they are on energy blindness.
@@TimothyMusson “Scholar”, a guy who has evidently not bothered to actually read the French president’s declaration but comments on it spewing nonsense ? “Scholar” a person who does not seem to even have a sense of Europe’s geography or past history ? No, he is just an unabashed Putin propagandist.
@@TimothyMusson Hi Timothy, I live in Italy, and daily access info and research on 4 languages. Either geopoliticists on our side of the pond are total dummies or a fair share of Americans are sadly mistaken, blinded by their own internal political prejudice. Of course America has every right to wash its hands of Russia's rampage, but I would really prefer it to be based on real facts, and not fantasies.
peace at any cost, chamberlain has risen from his grave to cloud the minds of otherwise sane individuals.
"Disgrace" is an excellent description of this episode. I hope Nate is sufficiently embarrased and ashamed to issue an apology to his listeners, for subjecting us to an hour of open-mic Soviet-stye Realpolitik.
What a realistic analysis, respect from Serbia.
Great show.
Finally facts instead of the narrative.
Thanks for sharing this insights.
God bless both of you and
Happy Easter
Christ is risen!
Truly he has risen!
That is most common Orthodox Eastern greeting.
✝️🤝☦️🤝🇷🇺🤝🇺🇸
Article 51 Sentence 1 of the U.N. Charter: "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security"
And when the armed attack is a response to a coup followed by attacks on the peaceful civilian population opposed to that coup? The West created this conflict, not Putin. That is pure fact. People need to verify the facts before defending what is only mindless and absurdly childish propaganda.
Ukrain is not a member of NATO or the EU
@@noelburke6224 Ukraine, the EU member states, the USA and other countries are UN contractiong states. Thus the EU member states, the USA, and any other UN contracting state is entitled under the UN Charter to come to the aid of Ukraine. That is what Art. 51 of the UN Charter says.
Who attacked whom?
Who was attempting to bring NATO to Russia's border with a country run by Banderite Nazis?
War of NATO expansion
The West can't afford to lose this and the cost of deteriorating Russians military is a bargain even at 250billion; that's nothing in our national wealth of 150 trillion.
We have much much more to lose, so instead make it cost russia this year!
The Obama regime attacked Ukrainian democracy.
@@xXTheRealShadyXx Yet oddly it's russia attempting the expanding and killing everything in their path.
34:20 Ukraine has the largest untapped gas reserves on the planet plus range of other critical minerals. As Olivia Lazard expressed in her conversation on this channel, Ukraine had signed a memorandum of understanding the the European Union and sought tenders of interest to develop this massive wealth of resources within the year before Russia invaded. Coincidence? Olivia's perspective has helped to reason why countries are willing to continue support for Ukraine in light of their massive windfall
And Olivia didn't think it was necessarily a bad thing :D
The US destroyed the Nordstream pipeline after a non-public agreement between US and Germany. The US promised Nigerian oil through a pipeline across Niger. Shipped from there to Germany. More colonialist exploitation. While in the meantime the US sells that petroleum to Germany.
Moreover, remember that Lord Ismay, first head of NATO, said: "The goal is to keep Russia out, keep Germany down, and the United States on top."
It is cheaper to buy from the Russians than support UA.
@@Seraphimofwoodstock 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you’re a hack
@@Seraphimofwoodstock "non public"
Mr Watson tells a story about the future of Ukraine that not many people would want to hear. I usually have a good radar for narratives that are not the full story or inaccurate and that is the feeling I get listening to his thesis. Time will tell I suppose. Greetings Nate and take care, mate.
The borderlands will go back to being just that, the borderlands.
@@hughjorgan7871 Ukrainians thank you for your glib opinion. Although it appears they'd rather fight, than be slaves to Vlads mafioso.
ah the joy of living on your knees and licking the boot that kicks, what could be better than this peace? idk maybe the entire human race could learn something about dying with dignity and stop killing the planet instead.
Ukraine in its post-2014 state is a trophy for the US and a millstone around the neck for mainland Europe. Of course Washington is fully aware that the sweeping dictates to support Ukraine through thick and thin (and to block off Russia) are weakening Europe, a competitor to the US on several levels.
@@keithomelvena2354 nah, they are already slave to Benderites N*z*, except the eastern Russophile/Russophones, who have asked Putin to intervene and are happy to going back to be Russian.
At 18:30 "the ones in the West would prefer to be part of Russia.... The ones in the East. This wasn't the case 15 years ago". There so much sloppiness going on here its hard to know where to start. You can't let a statement like that go without clarifying what he's saying. Look at the polls of Ukrainian support foe fighting back, its in the 90s. Disappointed in Nate for letting all this stuff go. Its hard to believe a word Chuck says after some of the statements here.
and he's wrong this was a replacement invasion since 2013 not a civil war as he claims. pfffft foreign influence was russian from the start or should i say fall of the corrupt yeltsin regime to be replaced by the hyper-corrupt putin regime.
Note too how Chuck subtlety draws a false moral equivalence between Poland and Russia as he describes how Poland will partake im the partitioning of Ukraine by taking part of the West(they won't), as if there is no difference between the regime in Russia and that in Poland. Oh and he says Romania and Hungary will take the south (they wont). Chuck is saying the actions of Russia are on the same moral plane as actual democratic, free countries, so who are to judge. Despicable.
On top of that, they completely overlook Russia's long imperial history. Russia being at odds with the Baltic states, Finland, Poland etc. is not just countries not getting along. Russia invaded these places and controlled them, often to the detriment of people there. Eastern Europe is only as Russian as the people there would like it to be, and war does not change that.
Bla bla bla
His partitioning bla bla is outrageous. The reasoning behind this stems from an imperialistic era that saw acts like the Hitler-Stalin pact. No European country other than Russia would take an inch of Ukranian territory even if completely undefended.
Wow ... what insight!
none of this rings true with the feedback i get from ukranian friends i made in 2018 that i still talk to once in while. I think the interveiwer and the interviewee are caught in some weird alternative information bubble.
Unfortunately it's true. Your friends in Ukraine are also caught in the liberal information bubble created by the US elite. Most of the sudden Ukrainian hatred against Russia was created by heavy investment by US over several decades. It's called 'cognitive conditioning' (heard from a US security woman).
This is big.
Here's more if you decide to go down the rabbit hole: ruclips.net/p/PL6-hcqTF_eSc6PIdk3QIwtoxtTK1wr30y
Poland at one time invaded Russia and took Moscow and past Moscow.
Everyone invaded someone in Europe at one time or another.
Still having wet dreams?
Someone keeps referring to Mearsheimer as some kind of authority on this, and how the war is all the fault of the west for pushing NATO to Russia’s borders. There are many good rebuttals of this very simplistic (and plain wrong) take. Here’s one that came out just yesterday that comprehensively debunks Mearsheimer’s ideas, and exposes his motivations for advocating a Ukrainian surrender: ruclips.net/video/wE-t2ePFEDc/видео.htmlsi=3Xc0BVsBLIlTZqDB
And agreeing with others here Nate. Very disappointed in you for platforming these narratives without serious pushback when there’s so much OSINT data and serious analysis out there really undermines your trustworthiness on other issues, and makes me less inclined to share your podcast with others to inform them about the energy and climate issues
Well said.
@henriklarson. I have watched dozens of hours of Mearsheiner, read and studied his and Steve Walt’s book “the Israel Lobby”. I watched the video you suggested from “the Lonerbox”, and read Mearsheimer’s 1993 18-page essay from the video: “the case for nuclear deterrence for Ukraine”. My verdict is that the video is “a limited hangout” for the CIA, the neocons, and American interests. Of course I would not want to live in Russia or Ukraine, nor do I have faith in any global leaders - politicians are all slime balls in some way. Re: the economic plans for Ukraine, from the EU and from Russia, it is not odd that Mearsheimer was not familiar with it. Read Yanis Varoufakis’ book “Adults in the Room” about his shocking experience as Greek finance minister with the EU Central bank, IMF, and Germany. They wanted austerity and eternal debt slavery for Greece. That’s how those bastards make money. He wanted to refuse their horrible loan, consolidate his debt, and find a less extortionary lender (possibly China). The “troika” threatened and cajoled, and schemed against him - like a mafia. They didn’t want to lose their potential profits. Vultures. I also highly recommend David Talbot’s “the Devil’s Chessboard”, and John Stockwell’s “In Search of Enemies”.
@@kassfischer5146thanks for a thoughtful reply. I’ve meant to read Varoufakis book some time, so might get on to that now. I agree to a large extent about politicians. Positions of power attract people with dark tetrad traits. I’ve read a lot of Chomsky in my life too, so am well acquainted with US imperial policies since ww2. As a Swede, I still see Russia as a greater threat to my part of the world though. A world with Russian hegemony (highly unlikely, but as a thought experiment) would be a much less pleasant place for all than the world dominated by the US, which for all its faults has been a relatively benign empire by historic standards. The US and other western democracies could not get away in this day and age with sending waves of badly trained and equipped soldiers with the casualty figures taken by the Russians to capture villages; or racking up the neverending list of well documented war crimes (terror bombings of civilian targets, widespread torture and rape, kidnapping of thousands of children etc. etc.) that Russia is doing in Ukraine, while brazenly denying it. There is at least some measure of accountability of leaders, and the messianic ideals of spreading liberal democracy and free markets - for all the greed and self-interest it comes with, are still genuinely held by many and serves to prevent the worst abuses of power. Russia’s neighboring states who’ve been under their yoke before are well aware of this difference of culture too.
I’m not really sure what you mean with the comment about the video being a CIA hangout?
Anyway, thanks again for expressing disagreement in a respectful way and pointing me to some reading resources
@@henriklarsson5867 Excellent insights
Excellent interview! Great guest! I'm subscribing to see more of that!
Normally I like the content on this channel. But I was aghast at the quality of this discussion.
I’m a Russian-speaking person - and I have no idea what this man is talking about. According to him, no “Russian speaker” believes what BBC English is saying and buys into what BBC Russia says. I’m sorry - that’s not the case. If Russia was so great and everyone loves Putin, then why did a million people leave Russia since the war started? (and I’m not talking about those who left before).
But let’s get to the facts. First, the man focuses on all the bad things the West is doing and is glossing over everything terrible that has been done by Putin’s government. First, he says that the fighting mainly happens between West Ukrainians and East Ukrainians, but he conveniently doesn’t mention that people in the Donbass are *forcefully* conscripted, put into prisons and then are forced to participate in “meat assaults” under the barrel of a gun - that of Russian officers.
Second, he says that Russian casualties are “only” tens of thousands. So, you just blindly believe the Russian statistics? For example, Russia passed a law according to which anyone can be pardoned of their criminal record if they get conscripted. The number of prisoners in Russian prisons has dropped by at least 150,000. And do you know how many of them die during assaults without weapons and with poor equipment? The “good” thing is that no one will look for them, so their casualties can be swept under the rug. There are pictures of cemeteries where you literally see new graves as far as the eye can see. This is not to mention that Russia is now in the middle of a new mobilization campaign, which would make no sense if they didn’t need new men. They are trying to mobilize 300,000 new conscripts, so where are the hundreds of thousands of men already mobilized? Why are you not asking basic logical questions?
Third, which actually made me chuckle: Russia is apparently a conservative country! One of the highest rates of divorce and abortion in Europe, religiosity at around 8% according to polls. I mean, check these elementary facts before saying such nonsense! You are basically buying into Ru propaganda when you say Russia is some conservative bastion.
Fourth, just an absurd notion that the fact that “Ukraine” means borderlands, it is somehow supposed to be part of Russia? Have you heard of Kievan Rus - if anything, Ukraine should have all of Russia then. Yeah, someone’s relative lives in Russia and the two countries are now at war. Is this the first time this happened? I mean go back to Yugoslavia. I’m sorry, this is not serious scholarship but just cherry-picked factoids that are so easy to expose as bearing little relation to reality.
Oh, and no mention of all the genocidal rhetoric in Russia. People like Dugin calling for “murder, murder, murder,” hatred spewing from TV, the Kremlin-supported singer dressing like a literal Nazi (check Shaman). Basically ignoring FACTS.
None of this is to say that I agree with whatever the Western governments are doing or Western media are saying. But come on, stop whitewashing Russian imperialism and militarism. You just sound like a tankie from the times of the Cold War, when some Western people were unhappy with their governments and saw some good alternative in the USSR, whitewashing all their horrific crimes. Interview a real historian like Antony Beevor.
Agreed. You are the only one making any sense in this entire thread. The guy's credibility went in the toilet as soon as he claimed Ukranian casualties at 500,000 and Russian at 10 to 15,000. Nonsense.
Well said, thank you!!!
So true... it's Nato, not Ukraine at war with the Russian Federation.
We know, We Are Ukrainians, and would never want to fight against our own Russian families.
I don't know why this idiotic introduction about the history of Ukraine. Watson could have said outright that there is no such thing as Ukraine and there is no such nation as Ukrainians. He could have added that there are no Lithuanians, Latvians or Estonians in the area yet. He would have it over with.
Chuck should have chucked in, there are no Russians, only ethnic monorities scooped up by the Kremlin and forced to march to Herr Presidentes drum.
this feels like listening to a climate denier. However, from a technical point of view it is interesting to see how these Russian apologists operate and what techniques they use to spread Kremlin propaganda to an English speaking audience. Its heartbreaking hearing Nate get so easily sucked in though. I'm normally a big fan of this podcast, but I have now lost a lot of respect.
Hehe, what I can see.
It's scary how much naive people it is, swallowing gov controlled western mainstream news straight down without thinking 🤔
If people don't wake up after two years with propaganda and lie's from western mainstream,
they never would.
Maybe when it's starting raining nuclear missiles and sun disappear 😂
Maybe little late to wake up....
Coincidentally you come out as a narrow-minded brainwashed Anglo mainstream propaganda believer. You've even learned tto confess your climate guilt and to include it in every topic.
If you can't see that both sides have their propaganda consisting of a varying ratio of truths, half truths and lies you're not thinking for yourself.
The AGM and CO2 story has multiple gaping holes in it and just like official Western narrative of this conflict it lacks all nuance, introspection and alternate considerations.
He's talking facts in a historical context. You should be grateful because that's something the Western MSM will never give you.
If his information was as useless and incorrect as many here are claiming, then why would they need to flood the site with troll-like comments attacking him? Or are they fearful that he might have made a few telling points?
I haven't heard of anyone denying climate yet. I've heard many scientists expressing their scepticism over the role of CO2 in regulating global temperatures, though. Dr. William Happer, for example.
There seems to be a correlation between those who believe in anthropogenic global warming and those who abide to the mainstream narrative of the conflict in Ukraine. The same people usually believe in covid vaccine efficiency and safety, too.
The fact that no neutral and non-partisan discussion over these topics is allowed should make it clear to any observant person that they are first and foremost political tools.
This is a very neutral and well-informed interview. The Western media coverage hasn't been neutral, well-informed or truthful. Of course the Kremlin has it's own views and interests but so far their their version has been relatively balanced and truthful compared to the absurd propaganda coming from the White House.
@@antispindr8613 much of it is indeed incorrect, but it isn't useless. It is actually part of a wider disinformation strategy by the Kremlin which has successfully created a narrative that has been counterproductive to actually winning the war so far. The pushback against helping Ukraine contributed to Biden's failed "escalation management" policy, which meant that Ukraine did not receive the right quantity and type of weapons before the Russians could build the Surovikin line. After that, possible actual traitors bought by Moscow in the US congress actively delayed the aid package. That got through eventually, it probably wont be enough to do more than hold the status quo, so it ends up costing more over the long run to either win slowly or lose. Nate could have had (and still could have) an interesting discussion with someone who actually knows their stuff relating the war to other great simplification themes like fossil fuel reserves in the black sea, kinetic sanctions on russian oil refining capacity, ecocide by the invaders and the potential of damage to nuclear power plants the longer they are allowed to stay there. but he chose to platform this shill and lost a lot of respect from his audience.
Were this podcast around during the Persian invasions, Nate might have advised the Hellenes to surrender. While you travel the world and run into nice russians, perhaps visiting Ukraine could shift the perspective from a high-level, detached, and one that lacks historical context to a perspective that offers profound insights. The Bykivnia graves, the Museum of Holodomor, and Askold's Grave stand as solemn reminders of why tens of thousands have given their lives while resisting Russian invasion in the recent years.
This man is one of the wise one
Lets appease the dictator in hopes of stopping the war. Where have we seen this before?
You right, Putin regime needs to be removed. They started it. Because they don't want division of Power inside their system, so all their political murders would come to daylight - and punishment, and all theft and kleptocracy behavior they want to never see challenged by real courts and independent courts and media. Putin and his regime would end up in a camp in Siberia CORRECTLY... If Ukraine or Belarus undergo that process, Putin regime know, they are next, which affects their stolen wealth, their self and their relatives existence and life style... Also there is a false sense of grandiosity in ''Russian'' society and even a false sense of peoplehood/nation (If they say Ukraine isn't a real Country, that can be true, but then Russia isn't neither... It's a collective of ''Russianized'' Baltics, Finn, Ugrics, Slaves, Germans, Swedes and Jews and Armenians and Georgians and all the regional colonized minorities (local majorities...) )'' ...Not a real nation neither ... More a temporary Nation/Imperia of formerly mostly unusable Lands... There is 3/4 outcomes... Russia Putin starts to win in UA and march like Hitler just vice versa direction and het gets his pleasure from going rout ''Zar of Eurasia''' instead of fear being himself toppled after UA or Belarus went Poland or Czecho/Slovakias or Slovenias way.... Next scenario is there is a cease fire agreement to stop it here with changed borders of UA (Won't happen, because no one really wants to stop it now... Maybe Fico or Orban want that) Next scenario is that somehow Putin regime can be toppled... Another scenario is that Ukraine support stops. then within 3-6 months Russian troops are in Moldova and maybe on border to Poland, Romania and Hungary with Run and Gun Civil war partly from Underground, mostly with just Hand Gun/Riffle weapons and Car bombs.. In this scenario there will be 4 - 20 million more Ukrainian refugees... Other scenario is that some Nato Nations start to move In. Which I would support, I would place them 30-50 km around Kharkiv and on the Dnepro river. Here UK and France and US would need to be involved as they have Nuclear weapons and this will deter Putin regime. I would not send in Polish and German troops without nuclear Umbrella... The most rational thing would be regime hand over (with amnesty for Putin regime...) or change with help from outside in Russia (without amnesty for Putin regime)... We will have war in 3 months to 4-5 years if Putin regime don't loose in Ukraine. Because he will ''go for it'' / He takes pleasure out of it, it's small man grandiosity syndrome / Napoleon syndrome...
ruclips.net/p/PL6-hcqTF_eSc6PIdk3QIwtoxtTK1wr30y
@@sgramstrup I already understand the basics of how geostrategy works. Thank you for your concern though.
@@Equalzer do you understand nuclear war? explain the geostrategy of going right up next to every border of Russia makes sense? I'm ashamed of what NATO has become
@withallduerespect9733
Do you understand nuclear war which NATO will win and Russia will lose. Yes? Good.
WHEN DOCTORS OR POLICEMEN TAKE TO LONG TO FIND THE EPIDEMIC OR CRIMINAL IT WOULD ONLY AFFECT THE PATIENT OR THE PLAINTIFF
Hi Nate, like many others have commented, this was a sad episode. It is Moscow's false narrative to call the invasion of a democratic independent country a civil war, etc. But now that you have started, please bring in a guest with both a neutral view on this, and the yearning for peace, and please do not continue to talk down to the Ukrainians. I wish the best for your podcast.
I disagree with your opinion about this episode. First of all Ukraine was not a Democracy since 2014 when the CIA orchestrated a takeover of the government. Then after that a NATO military buildup occurred in the Ukraine with the intent to aggravate Russia. The US mainstream media is NOT my information source. haha. We can, with a bit of effort, review more accurate information such as the analysis of Jeffry Sacks.
@@bobd251 nothing at all is neutral about his argument except pointing out Ukrainians are dying fast and all without pointing his finger at the TRUE culprit.
Nonsense. This war started in 2014 with the US overthrow of the democratically elected Ukraine government. A recent NY Times article goes into great detail outlining how the CIA has been working with the Ukrainians since that time to organize acts of terrorism in Russia and the Donbass.
You live on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean? 😅
“Democratic independent “??
How much do you know about Ukraine and origins of this conflict?
Good talk. It's good to see some Americans are thinking.
Long fan of your podcast Nate! But this Chuck Watson intervju was disapointing if you plan to have only him on. He i clearly on one side and he presented some strange angels to many topics that should not be taken as «facts». I am Norwegian and have noticed that US «experts» seem to be claim things about european matters that sounds strange for a european. I guess my claims about US would be very different from many who lives in US…
I completely agree. Here is my response to this interview, which I hope more people will see because the guy just says absolute nonsense not based on facts and omits important information:
I’m a Russian-speaking person - and I have no idea what this man is talking about. According to him, no “Russian speaker” believes what BBC English is saying and buys into what BBC Russia says. I’m sorry - that’s not the case. If Russia was so great and everyone loves Putin, then why did a million people leave Russia since the war started? (and I’m not talking about those who left before).
But let’s get to the facts. First, the man focuses on all the bad things the West is doing and is glossing over everything terrible that has been done by Putin’s government. First, he says that the fighting mainly happens between West Ukrainians and East Ukrainians, but he conveniently doesn’t mention that people in the Donbass are forcefully conscripted, put into prisons and then are forced to participate in “meat assaults” under the barrel of a gun - that of Russian officers.
Second, he says that Russian casualties are “only” tens of thousands. So, you just blindly believe the Russian statistics? For example, Russia passed a law according to which anyone can be pardoned of their criminal record if they get conscripted. The number of prisoners in Russian prisons has dropped by at least 150,000. And do you know how many of them die during assaults without weapons and with poor equipment? The “good” thing is that no one will look for them, so their casualties can be swept under the rug. There are pictures of cemeteries where you literally see new graves as far as the eye can see. This is not to mention that Russia is now in the middle of a new mobilization campaign, which would make no sense if they didn’t need new men. They are trying to mobilize 300,000 new conscripts, so where are the hundreds of thousands of men already mobilized? Why are you not asking basic logical questions?
Third, which actually made me chuckle: Russia is apparently a conservative country! One of the highest rates of divorce and abortion in Europe, religiosity at around 8% according to polls. I mean, check these elementary facts before saying such nonsense! You are basically buying into Ru propaganda when you say Russia is some conservative bastion.
Fourth, just an absurd notion that the fact that “Ukraine” means borderlands, it is somehow supposed to be part of Russia? Have you heard of Kievan Rus - if anything, Ukraine should have all of Russia then. Yeah, someone’s relative lives in Russia and the two countries are now at war. Is this the first time this happened? I mean go back to Yugoslavia. I’m sorry, this is not serious scholarship but just cherry-picked factoids that are so easy to expose as bearing little relation to reality.
Oh, and no mention of all the genocidal rhetoric in Russia. People like Dugin calling for “murder, murder, murder,” hatred spewing from TV, the Kremlin-supported singer dressing like a literal Nazi (check Shaman). Basically ignoring FACTS.
None of this is to say that I agree with whatever the Western governments are doing or Western media are saying. But come on, stop whitewashing Russian imperialism and militarism. You just sound like a tankie from the times of the Cold War, when some Western people were unhappy with their governments and saw some good alternative in the USSR, whitewashing all their horrific crimes. Interview a real historian like Antony Beevor.
Based on majority clueless comments here I have concluded that I need to vote for Trump. When Russia defeats NATO, they are defeating collective west's communist liberal ideology.