Wow, I just watched your previous interview with Chuck about nuclear weapons for the first time last night. I'm glad to see you were able to set up such a timely interview. Keep up the good work Nate, your channel is going to get big for sure with such quality content. Thanks for what you do!!
Thanks Nate and Chuck, I thought this was an exceptional discussion, particularly so on the nuanced analysis of both Gaza-Israel War and how it relates to Russo-Ukraine War. As a former naval officer, I've been very frustrated by the lack of nuance - indeed the lack of basic military common sense - in such discussions in the, West these last 2 years. If you think its bad in the US, its even worse here in Europe. There is, though, an answer to Nate's question of what should be done about both conflicts, and to manage down the risk of nuclear conflict. I agree with Chuck that it looks very difficult to see how both can be managed by the US and the West. But the way to come at this is through the perspective of our collective national interests. Of the two regions, the Middle East - with its oil reserves - is far more important to Western security than Ukraine. I don't buy the line that Putin wants to re-establish the Soviet Union - as Professor John Mearsheimer says, there's no evidence to support this. Furthermore, its clear to me and many other alternative military analysts that Ukraine will loose the conflict without NATO intervention, for which there is no political appetite in the West - indeed, I'd go further and say that were NATO to intervene, we'd loose too, but that's another story. This observation then leads to a simplification strategy. First, accept the inevitable in Ukraine, throw no more good strategic money after bad, and open negotiations with Russia for a managed peace, based around the borders as they currently are. Better for Ukraine, because the longer we wait, the more likely it is that Russia will march west to the Dnieper River, which is a more natural defensive line for them than the western edge of the Donbass. Second, invite Putin - who through his OPEC+ dealings, has strong relationships with fellow OPEC+ countries in the Middle East - to work with the West, and probably China, for a managed stabilisation of the Gaza-Israel. Its incredibly difficult to see what a practical political solution could look like, but for now stability is needed, and the opportunity to allow the intense heat to dissipate. The West doesn't want to the war, but I very much doubt too that the OPEC+ nations do, either. After all, with the Abraham Accords, Israel and KSA were edging closer together. If there is unwelcome compromise in this approach for the West well, yes, but better this than the World's 3rd Oil Shock or an appalling nuclear exchange or both.
You mentioned Mearsheimer. I know it's wise to listen to opposing views but seeing the title of one of his speeches, something like "How NATO expansion to the West is the cause of Ukraine's war", I just couldn't click on it. As someone from post-Soviet Baltic state - Lithuania - I am 99% sure that we would have been occupied by Russia by now if we haven't joined NATO. Also, who in their right mind would believe that NATO is preparing to attack a country with the most nuclear weapons in the world ? After researching war in Ukraine, I think the most plausible reason is that Putin could not let Ukraine "go West". Ukraine is close to Russia in terms of culture and language. If they adopted the western practices of bussiness and politics and improved their living conditions, Russian society would start having serious questions about Putin's government, and Putin could not let that happen. On top of that, Putin thinks that giving statehood to Ukraine is basically a mistake of history. Can you have negotiations with someone who denies the very existence of you ? On the topic of Israel - Palestine, I think that Israel, as the more powerful side, is in the wrong. If I were USA leader, I would stop any support for Israel until they abandon god-damn settlements in the West Bank. Then I would build a university in Palestine, because education is the way to fight terrorism. Terrorism is not people, it's an idea, and you cannot destroy ideas with bombs. USA had 20 years to learn that lesson, and it didn't ! Finally, I want to address the concept of "collective national interests". USA operated with this policy for the last 30 years, and what's the consequence of that ? Half the world hates USA. Worse, they have good reasons to feel that way. We need wisdom and integrity, not pragmatism, in times like these.
@@Hexanitrobenzene Very good comments and a good discussion. To take your "99% sure" comment first, the key issue is not what you or I think but what Russia thinks. Russia has, since 2003, been unequivocal that Ukraine and Georgia's membership of NATO would be a red line for them. From their perspective, Ukraine as a NATO member could be a base for intermediate nuclear weapons that, because of their location, would place Moscow and critical Russian military facilities within just minutes. This would, in turn, compromise the Russian nuclear forces and their whole deterrence policy. Remember, it was the US who withdrew from all the US-Russian nuclear treaties. In Russia's position, I would take exactly the same view. And when the US was in a mirror image position, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, they too took exactly the same view. Turning to the related "go West" point, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the most plausible reason was national security, as I've stated above. My strong sense is that the reason the Special Military Operation was triggered was because the Russian General Staff were watching the US and Britain help Ukraine build a large army, and that even though the US began saying to the Russians that Urkaine would probably not join NATO, the Russian's didn't trust the US - and that if they were to prevent this strengthening security threat on their borders, the longer they left it, the greater would be the Russian casualties when they did intervene. On Putin's and a mistake of history, it is worth listening to John Mearshiemer and/or reading Putin's speeches, rather than guessing. As John says, Putin did think that the establishment by Kruschev of Ukraine including Crimea and the Donbass was a mistake. But there is no evidence before 2014 that he wanted to turn back the clock of history. There is evidence that he wishes to preserve the rights of ethnic Russians who live outside the borders of Russia, which is natural. On Israel-Palestine, we're on a very similar page, so nothing more to say here. Finally on "collective national interests", I disagree with you that the US operated such a policy for the last 30 years. Rather I would say that the US has operated a policy focused largely on US national interest, and at the expense of Europe. We have been slow to recognise this. The US has, for example, vociferously argued against Germany's bilateral relationship with Russia on gas, to the extent that, according to Sy Hersch, they went as far as destroying the Nord-Stream II pipeline - one of the results being that Germany is now falling into recession. Difficult to see how that action equates with "collective national interests"? Finally, and much more fundamentally, we are now having to confront the reality - not the possibility - that we live not in a uni-polar world dominated by a US hegemon, but a multi-polar world, where the US and the West are no longer dominant. Where the BRICS nations are of equal, if not greater, power. And where the 3rd World no longer fears the US. In such a world, wisdom and integrity matters, of course it does. But sometimes, when dealing with other nation-states that do not share our values - nor take kindly to attempts for us to impose these values upon them - it is wise to be pragmatic.
@@stevenjermy1098 I don't think you can draw parallels with Cuban Missile Crisis. In that case, Russian rockets were already deployed in Cuba, and USA imposed a blockade on Cuba. Ukraine was not even invited to join NATO, and Russia launched a full scale invasion as a preventative measure ? In the last few years I have become very cynical of international relations. USA behaves like a calculating psychopath, betraying their proclaimed values where it's convenient. Russia behaves like a paranoid schizophreniac, seeing enemies everywhere around. Israel, in a very sad twist of irony, is on the way to become 21st century Nazies. Seems like China is the real winner here, with its Belt and Road intiative. I'm not a fan of China, knowing their domestic policies, but their international policy seems positive on average.
"Virtually a full time job trying to create a world view that I have some confidence in." Amen. And as Chuck says, the knowledge level of many of our elected representatives seems to be just abysmal.
I'm a bit backlogged on your program Nate, but this one I'll be listening right away. Chuck Watson knows what he's talking about for sure. I think this is the kind of knowledge we cannot act much upon but still have to learn about, as the risks are so great.
For a primer in American International relations i would suggest General Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket". Written in the 1930's by the most decorated Marine in American History, it is an expose of the "unholy marriage" between government, military and corporate forces. It is an eye-opening jaw-dropper which has given me a better grasp of world events for over 30 years.
For understanding the Zionist movement I suggest “ Against Our Better Judgment “ by Alison Weir. Tons of footnotes, links to actual audio recordings of the founders talking about Nabka. Extremely informative and sad at the same time.
The only channel I enjoy who stay to its roots since its beginning and not trying to follow trends. Thanks for the work, Nate!! PS: My only will it be have more often guests from Europe and talks about Europe also.
I love your show, Nate, but a little suggestion about your audio: notch down the music intro by about 6 dB. It always jumps out as very loud in comparison to voice levels.
I listened to the whole podcast and found it balanced and to-the-point. The subject may be out of your comfort zone, but you tackled it head on with the right expert, and I even found it enlightening. Homo sapiens in a complex species that has gotten itself into a whole lot of scrapes; global warming and planetary limits is just one of them. War - and long-lasting animosity - is another one, and this latest flare-up in Israel has overshadowed everything else. I love your programme: the subject, the experts you invite, and your thoughtful, well-informed approach to your interviews. You take the time to think things through, to make sure you understand, so that we, your listeners, can fully understand. It was important to make this segway into a highly volatile subject that will have ramifications around the world, including the United States. Thanks for being there.
Good evening Nate and Chuck Thankyou for this shared difficult discussion. Needing to open our eyes to the lack of healthy governance. It's systems seem old and not really fit for purpose. Appearing deliberate, too complex to unravel! Just a wee worry, concern. Needs to begin with the PEOPLE for sure, people working new politics, striving to unravel the old transforming to something new. HUMAN Resources and it's associated policies, procedures, protocols do not serve the HUMAN either it has become all too clear.. Parliament and its Bills and associated powers again different but indeed the same. Do not serve well enough, not in any fair way, shape or form. Putting it simply and politely. Needing macro and micro actions from innovation and people to maybe wake up a wee bit more to do so effectively. Super grateful for your work. Sanity brain gym. 💜
One of the last things Nate does in this conversation is to remind us that the world has been saved on two or three occasions since 1960 by people who didn’t follow orders. All of the occasions that I can think of involved extraordinarily brave Russians. But I don’t think we should count on this being built into the fabric of the universe. At some point the world will almost certainly run out of extraordinarily brave Russians, and that will be it.
I fear that people in the west have developed an overwhelming character flaw of moral cowardice. They will not want to be "cancelled" by peers on social media by disobeying orders and will do so up to and including nuclear war. We have media which will cheer lead war and cheer lead the persecution of whistle blowers and refusniks.
Fantastic interview and particularly so because you both were able to breakdown a complex topic into important ideas that were communicated effectively and cogently.
I wish you wouldn't make teasers. I wish no one would. They are so not needed and remind my only of the days when I was still watching the horrible commercial television channels.
A most excellent interview. Touching on subjects that both interest and concern me. Thanks Nate for giving me a measure to put my thoughts alongside to.
Somone needs to tell Nate and his guests to stop saying, "well put your viewers to sleep." This is not network news, folks. We are here because we want to know more. Stop using this phrase as an excuse to avoid certain topics. Just be honest about not knowing enough or not wanting to talk about it.
No, it failed to come to the rescue of the U.S. when George W. Bush and his thugs stole the presidential election in 2000, and it's been downhill ever since.
Great discussion with Chuck Watson, Nate. Peter Zeihan of Zeihan on Geopolitics posted this: (available via RUclips) “Gaza and Israel: The Start of WWIII or an Isolated Conflict?” His opinion on the Israeli/Hamas conflict was that it would not result in WWIII. Having viewed/listened to your conversation with Chuck Watson leads me to think Peter Zeihan is being too optimistic, but I still hope Zeihan’s right🤔
You'll tell me that with ifs, we can bottle Paris... Nevertheless, the Egyptian authorities claimed to have warned the week before the abominable massacre committed by armed Hamas militants that a large-scale operation was being prepared in the Gaza Strip, without the far-right government of Netanyahu giving it the slightest follow-up... Because such an attack was a great opportunity to make people forget its maneuvers to enslave the Israeli judicial system, as well as its embezzlement, but above all to satisfy the most unspeakable desire of this government: to finish off the population of Gaza by taking the pretext to carry out either a deportation or forced exodus of them to Egypt, or its outright elimination. After all, didn't his defense minister recently refer to the Palestinians as subhuman? Cynicism in politics and reasons of state never cut corners. Remember the weapons of mass destruction that Iraq supposedly possesses and the million deaths that this US-led war has caused.
Agree a lot with what he says. But how he thinks American influence on geo politics was generally viewed as essentially benign seems a bit of a stretch. Also thinking that 20 to 1 kill rate of Palestinians is somehow justified from an Israeli point of view. An ongoing land grab and illegal occupation always seems to be played down in a lot of debate about Palestine.
Indeed. But I guess that's merely a matter of military necessity. Something us silly civilians just can't appreciate. Then that was followed up by the halfway serious consideration that Hamas somehow destroyed their own hospital, presumably because the all-out nakedly pro-Israel mainstream media said so. AND NOT OBVIOUSLY ISRAEL DESTROYING THE HOSPITAL..... So that wasn't too impressive to hear.
Excellent nuance here on the psychostrategics after taking account of the various inventories of the major and 2nd echelon nuke countries today.. Yes, Nate, a round table on this topic alone should be a high and imminent priority for The Great Simplification.
Israel does not hesitate to subject the Palestinian population of the West Bank to a regime of apartheid with its streets reserved for them, Israelis to Jews and foreigners, but forbidden to Palestinian residents in cities like Hebron or Bethlehem. The Israeli state has supported the illegal establishment of Jewish settlements in the middle of the West Bank, fragmenting it like a Swiss cheese or checkpoint that more regiments the lives of Palestinians than it was in South Africa during the time of white domination. So, you see, it should come as no surprise that such Machiavellian scenarios are possible right now. Collectively punishing a people for acts committed by a part of its population is a crime against humanity and prohibited by international conventions. But here it's the law of retaliation.
Thank you for this, found it sensible and a sane conversation so much so that I’ve subscribed. Also grateful that there were no hideous adverts crashing in, thank you for not having them.
This was very informative as well as frightening. One topic not discussed but needs to be is how diplomacy can cope with somewhat deranged leaders. Putin is one; some of the members of the Israeli government are another; some of the leadership of Hamas is still another; the president of the US who preceded the present one is perhaps the most obvious case. The unfortunate fact is that power attracts sociopaths and sometimes they make it to the top.
I’d be interested if Nate did one about sand. It is a resource which is being gobbled up and the method extraction is causing damage to the environment
Thanks for the confirmation. I have felt Its shtf right now yet no one i know seems to see it. Great interview with chuck and his life time of experience
100% agree. That is the only explanation that matches their behavior. I have only worked with state and county level politicians and self interest and interests of their funders is what they are always interested in.
I have always believed that ambition gets you out of bed, although it can be detrimental to your beliefs. The system we have created is all about trying to get some of the economical surplus regardless of the cost. We all justify our actions. The financial system has captured how we organise as a society.
A timely discussion Nate. This has been ongoing before the birth of Mohammed and Christ. The Romans at the time with an overwhelming local military force, allowing local religions alone , could not resolve the mideast hatred. I doubt a solution is found given the hatred for 3,000 years. In so many areas (US congress right now) we are seeing humans becoming rigid in their dogma leading to dysfunction. Complex human systems need cooperation, collaboration and coordination which seem to be increasingly scarce as the poly crisis progresses. Humans have been around for 0.000001 per cent on the planet's past and in this short time have managed to bugger things up royally. Need wisdom, a global governance system and be done with nation states.
What would global governance do? Redistribute wealth? Allocate resources? Constrain some people and help others? I have lived all over the world. Idealisms seldom succeed in the face of reality. Humans are greedy, self destructive and self preserving. A global governance system will eventually become self serving, as all governance systems do.
"There have been more civilian casualties in 10 days of the war between Hamas and Israel than there have been in 2 years of high intensity conventional warfare between Ukraine and Russia". There have been *close* to as many in the former as in the latter. That's surprising enough, and makes the point without undermining Chuck's credibility.
Many would say that from the American perspective things gotten worse.The subtle ablation of American hegemony around the world is disquieting. Many others around the world view a multi-polar world as a positive, mutually beneficial thing where one power does not hold sway over everything. A basic tenet of Capitalism is that monopolies are intrinsically bad. Is America an exception to that fundamental tenet?
I see a parallel message here between what Bill Rees always says is our only hope for substantial change: political engagement. We cannot hope to change our government in the way Chuck is describing without becoming heavily involved in politics ourselves. Sorry but this whole "I'm a-political" stance from most scientists is not going to cut it anymore.
It's not so much that we are "energy/geopolitics blind". The root issue is we are "Risk Blind". The human brain is not evolved to view risks in a global systems context. There is also far too much "momentum" in this system for a "soft landing". Great discussion.
More risk ignorant, by design, but do you know how many kwh you use per day, do you know how many kw's are in a litre or gallon of diesel? I would expect the 1zt one to be common if people were energy aware but at 10.6 or 40.12 as per litre or gallon, not many people are aware. I disagree the human brain is not evolved etc, but that the human is a product of their surroundings, if people are sitting around like there's nothing wrong and we see people go for driving holidays, then ignorance is bliss. The root issue isn't something different imo
Talking about the US position on things beginning at about 17:45 minutes, and how in the 80s there were at least some politicians who were in favor of a peace alternative. Chuck should be clear that this is the US POLITICIANS who are clearly in favor of US hegemony and military responses, not the US POPULATION. And that is because the US political process has been completely captured by the money of corporations since the 90s with a step-wise assault on laws governing election financing and media concentration. US politicians today respond only to their ‘clients’, which are in control of the political and media processes in the US. I have strong doubts that the majority of America citizens support the US domination of the world. That would offend our basic values of fairness and cooperation. But that voice is completely drowned out by the money. Four more comments: Chuck mentioned briefly the long-range missiles ATACMS that have slipped into Ukraine under the radar somewhat. I would have liked to hear more about those. What are their potential targets? Are they only Crimea and the bridge, or are they capable of reaching Moscow, if Ukraine gets desperate. That sounds disastrous. Speaking of, Chuck then said that Ukraine might opt for a radiological event? Meaning blow up one of their own nuclear reactors, in order to draw attention back to their struggle? How would that work? Maybe a false flag operation? That could backfire, and would kill Ukrainians and destroy ecosystems, as with Chernobyl. And speaking of false flags, Chuck apparently feels that the missile that hit the hospital was indeed Israeli, based on its explosion characteristics. That is exactly the type of analysis that is needed. You two both then discussed the problem with distrust of government and media sources (agree). But this podcast, and the expertise of people like Chuck give his evaluation much more credence, which can be the kernel of knowledge from a trusted sources that can spread. Last, an important topic of this podcast was the possibility of nuclear strikes, mostly the so-tactical strikes. I wish you would have discussed possible targets for Israeli strikes. What could they possibly hit with a nuke? The middle of Gaza? The middle of the West Bank? The border of Lebanon? I doubt there are any deep and rich ‘targets’ in the near Middle East that would accomplish anything. But for me, of most importance, which was not really discussed is the psychological impact of the use of a nuke anywhere in the world. The military men can plot - we hit your ‘target’ with a tactical nuke, then you hit our ‘target’ with another. It is my belief, maybe it’s a hope, that as soon as citizens around the world see an image of a mushroom cloud rising above anything, a harbor, and underground bunker, a column of troops, anything, that people would be so revolted by the image that they would rise up on protest. That image, or that video, would be the single, utterly unacceptable artefact of this insane war, or equally the Ukraine-Russia war. I hope that the world would simply not stand for it. You might say I’m naïve. I don’t think so.
And a last thought, you go back to the topic of good governance and how to achieve that, and I think you are planning a podcast on that topic. I think you should look, in a very Marvin Harris infrastructural determinist way, as I said in my first comment, at the money and the laws that now permit the application of money to dominate the political system. It is not ‘governance’ that is general problem, but it is ‘these current particular politicians in both parties’ that have gained access to their positions of governance through the infrastructure of the current legal-corporate-financial control of the political system in the US. It was not always this way. Can the current situation be reversed? That is the fight that needs to happen first, in order to get politicians who are not beholden to corporate-military clients. - Tom Abel
Hm, this expert gave a pretty balanced assessment of that infamous hospital tragedy. His conclusion is that this was not caused by Israel's bomb: ruclips.net/video/mKKWRkf5iz8/видео.html
Best thing to teach young people now is a much simpler life is coming and to help each other out and practice kindness. Go find that old person in the neighborhood and mow there lawned sort of thing ..teach old school to these kids that calms anxiety and aggression and worry.
Listening to Biden's Oval Office address the other evening and then listening to Chuck Watson, you can't help but feel that Biden couldn't have things more wrong, which should scare the shit out of all of us (the whole world)--no better example of the leadership and governance crisis. And then the shit-show in the United States House of Representatives.
A suggestion to all who wish to understand reporting, take a journalism law course, then a PR course, and then a editing and writing course. Couple that with a few basic public speaking courses. Do it PNC. It may help to decipher news.
Depressing but a good summary of the American dilemma with practical analysis. Does Washington simply not understand that it is the actual architect of the US empire decline?
A question you could have asked Chuck, Nate: Where and against whom could the Israeli regime use a nuclear bomb without causing unacceptable risk to itself?
A comment about the 'dearth of knowledge' of elected leadership, and the spectrum of knowledge needed including history, science, engineering; from an engineering perspective the collapse of the twin towers was an engineering impossibility. Attributing this 'miracle' to 'Afghanistan' is a good example of how easily profound errors can be integrated into perspectives despite the integrity and competence of the speaker.
Despite what's going on in Gaza is inhumane and innocent people are killed in thousands - for real - the struggle is actually a side show. It is primarily choreographed to better and tighter-control the severely depleting oil fields in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, Syria, Russia and beyond. But, couldn't a tighter-control over oil fields be done without culling people? It looks like the answer is - no - confirming an earlier 2017 made claim that all humans are in fact oil-diggers - on oil, after oil, for oil - like an ant colony - all its members are marching together for energy supplies - and a tighter control over oil - automatically means - a smaller population - even if that takes a manual culling - tooth and nail. At the end of fossil fuels age - Reality itself became an outcome of - the-peak-oil-musical-chairs™-calculator - a people-recycling process. This far, Israel's PM called what happened - Pearl Harbour and 9/11 - combined - which made many think that - what's really going on - is a smoke and mirrors - the real thing is - fossil fuels, indeed. "In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most. No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores. No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. This universal truth applies to all systems. Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).
I've heard things in the past few days where it sounds like it's being claimed that Russia armed Hamas and that Iran knew nothing about it. Any likelihood that OBS or Ali Khamenei might take issue with Russia if that's the case?
Israel / Palestine is insoluble, mainly because the sustainable population of the whole region is what it was when the State of Israel was created in 1947-1948, and there is no way of going back to this. The total population of the area was 1.8 million of which 1.2 million was Arab and 600,000 was Israeli. Israelis were about one third of the population by then (due to recent mass re-migration from Europe), but still only owned about 7% of the land. But whichever way the population and land were divided in the late 1940s, the fact remains that the economy was sustainable at under 2 million and a self-sufficient lifestyle on both the kibbutzim and the Palestinian equivalent. The same goes for the whole world. Its sustainable population is under 2 billion WITH A SIMPLE LIFESTYLE. A handful of super-rich living luxuriously would be of no consequence, it is the numbers of us absolutely rolling in consumer luxury (relative to previous centuries) that are the problem. How can we ever get back to national and personal sustainability and self-sufficiency? It seems impossible, especially now that the billions in the Developing World are joining the party or rather the "rave", having noticed that they are sitting on some of the most valuable and vital natural resources on the planet and having no compunction about putting these up for sale to the highest bidder. Just as many small Palestinian farmers did in the 1930s and 1940s - they sold their land to incoming settlers who had more fiat money than a poor farmer could normally ever dream of. Yet what, after all, is fiat money compared to your own home, your own farm, and your own community? Wiki tells me that "A mess of pottage is something immediately attractive but of little value taken foolishly and carelessly in exchange for something more distant and perhaps less tangible but immensely more valuable. The phrase alludes to Esau's sale of his birthright for a meal ("mess") of lentil stew ("pottage") in Genesis 25:29-34 and connotes shortsightedness and misplaced priorities." How old is Genesis? - anyway, clearly this urge to sell your birthright is an intrinsic part of human nature and has "lighted fools the way to dusty death" innumerable times in the somewhat painful history of our species. Nations should fix their own propensity to trash their Patrimony inside their own borders before meddling in the affairs of other Nations either through diplomacy or through less peaceful channels. "Physician, heal thyself" is a very ancient Greek and Hebrew proverb appearing most famously (at a later date) in Luke 4:23. There, Jesus is quoted as saying, "Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, 'Physician, heal thyself': whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country." Jesus goes on to point out to the Pharisees that He cannot heal His own land, because He is an outcast there - a common enough situation for dissidents. But He does not deny the truth of the saying in general, at this or any other point in the New Testament. It is Israel that the whole Bible admonishes, not other Nations. And it our OWN Nation now, that we should try to fix, wherever we are in the world (i.e. the advice applies to expats, who to be fair are often working quite hard to fix their OWN Nation and not just luxuriating in the opportunities provided by their host Nation). Of course we should discuss and take an interest in the affairs of other Nations, because no Nation is an island entire of itself - but we should ACT locally, not globally, where possible, including in Trade (and Aid too), I am afraid.
I have a lot of issues with Chuck Watson's analysis. I dont think he is correct about this which gives me a bit of skepticism on the opinion of your other guest on other topics.
The idea of Waring nations using their plight as a means to gain funding... that is a scary consideration. You don't want this to turn into a case of using grief for marketing.
Fighting two wars simultaneously and with on-going seething political wars at home may just prove too much for the country. Something has got to break and it may not be pretty for the nation.
The Russia Ukraine "thing" did not start our road to isolation. The U.S. used to maintain the global order but has been backing away from that job since the fall of the Soviet Union 30+ years ago.
You can't be backing away when USA has dropped bombs on 38 countries since then. The USA never maintained global order, they just found themselves at the top of the tree after world war 2, and have been at war since.
I hold reservations regarding the validity of specific claims, particularly those concerning the depletion of American arms reserves (with the exception of certain ammunition, which should not be overlooked). However, I must acknowledge my limited expertise in this matter. On the other hand, I can unequivocally affirm that the notion of sabotage at a nuclear power station resulting in significant casualties is entirely implausible for a multitude of compelling reasons. Consequently, my skepticism extends to the remainder of the assertions.
On the subject of being informed. Whether society or a legislative body is informed alone isn’t enough. Because how that information is acted upon will determine the outcome and we humans act on self serving instinct. A positive outcome based on information alone presumes everyone holds the same altruistic perspective. We don’t and we never will because it’s simply not in our nature.
horrible topic but great talk, thank you Nate and Chuck for your objectivity while putting this complex issue into perspective, hard task but you guys nailed it. I would only add, that it seems like we are standing in the middle of a global Mexican stand off, and that, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, that is is a good thing and our only hope at the moment, hopefully, nobody is going to pull the trigger, guns will be holstered and this shitstorm will pass. Remains to be seen in the next episode of the continues soap opera "Homo Sapiens on the third rock away from the Sun"
America cannot afford this. We are energy, tech , and food independent. This can destroy everything for America 🇺🇸. WASHINGTON, Oct 20 (Reuters) - The White House on Friday asked Congress for nearly $106 billion to fund ambitious plans for Ukraine, Israel and U.S. border security, but offered no strategy for securing the money from a broken Congress.
All govt wages are based on debt, all society is, as long as people still accept US dollars around the world then they will print more to afford it. If all debt was paid back there would be no money in the world, you live in a debt based society, maybe we should talk about the trillions spent and the recurring interest, who are these people who own such a large part of our lives.
Anyone with enough money can rise to a leadership position regardless of their level of knowledge of the area they are expected to lead. Maybe we should subject anyone running for public office to an exam that could detect cognitive biases or ignorance of the concept of overshoot and planetary boundaries.
At this point humanity is over-complicating conflict -- is this on purpose? You have land, sub-surface mineral rights, air space -- all these can have owners, assigned to them, by title in a registry. If you do that, what's the point of war? Why is this solution discussed exactly NOWHERE? In a world where land is owned, and a missile hits a parking lot or a building -- whomever fired it owes the owner some damages. In our world it's an "oopsy". This is embarrassing in its juvenile attitude. Where should the borders of nations fall? EXACTLY WHERE LANDOWNERS IN THE BORDER AREA WANT IT. Of course the state will NEVER suggest people really owning land. Because the state is a creature of the so-called commons. The commons -- so owned by everyone it respected by no-one.
@@antonyjh1234 wide open. A few ideas: Ground of Being, Great Love, Spirit, Light, God in every one and every thing .. whatever greater power one prays to / falls on knees to when overwhelmed by grief, beauty, truth, love, pain, gratitude, sorrow etc … If you want to add ears to your god, why you just feel free to go for it.
Well, it's not that, there are plenty of people who don't believe anything about any gods, let alone their ears. Sometimes while I appreciate people have the freedom of religion I really wish we could have freedom from it as it adds nothing to the conversation.@@jennysteves
The guest suggesting Ukraine are likely to blow up their own reactor to regain international attention was outrageous. Who is that justified? Its really strange but in this space - systems thinking, peak oil, collapse - an enormous amount of people have this weird affection for Putin and Russia. Chuck Watson can be added to the list.
i propose that the task of governance should not be left to professional politicians. i believe that a few grandmothers, religious leaders, professors, and psychologists from both sides could find solutions which professional politicians ignore. politicians are by nature aggressive and one-sidedly nationalistic. i say trust the grandmothers and their expert allies in several pertinent fields. the politicians have created nasty violent conditions in many places. we should seek solutions elsewhere.
Wow, I just watched your previous interview with Chuck about nuclear weapons for the first time last night. I'm glad to see you were able to set up such a timely interview. Keep up the good work Nate, your channel is going to get big for sure with such quality content. Thanks for what you do!!
That 1st interview was awesome and a real eye opener.
Thanks Nate and Chuck, I thought this was an exceptional discussion, particularly so on the nuanced analysis of both Gaza-Israel War and how it relates to Russo-Ukraine War. As a former naval officer, I've been very frustrated by the lack of nuance - indeed the lack of basic military common sense - in such discussions in the, West these last 2 years. If you think its bad in the US, its even worse here in Europe. There is, though, an answer to Nate's question of what should be done about both conflicts, and to manage down the risk of nuclear conflict. I agree with Chuck that it looks very difficult to see how both can be managed by the US and the West. But the way to come at this is through the perspective of our collective national interests. Of the two regions, the Middle East - with its oil reserves - is far more important to Western security than Ukraine. I don't buy the line that Putin wants to re-establish the Soviet Union - as Professor John Mearsheimer says, there's no evidence to support this. Furthermore, its clear to me and many other alternative military analysts that Ukraine will loose the conflict without NATO intervention, for which there is no political appetite in the West - indeed, I'd go further and say that were NATO to intervene, we'd loose too, but that's another story. This observation then leads to a simplification strategy. First, accept the inevitable in Ukraine, throw no more good strategic money after bad, and open negotiations with Russia for a managed peace, based around the borders as they currently are. Better for Ukraine, because the longer we wait, the more likely it is that Russia will march west to the Dnieper River, which is a more natural defensive line for them than the western edge of the Donbass. Second, invite Putin - who through his OPEC+ dealings, has strong relationships with fellow OPEC+ countries in the Middle East - to work with the West, and probably China, for a managed stabilisation of the Gaza-Israel. Its incredibly difficult to see what a practical political solution could look like, but for now stability is needed, and the opportunity to allow the intense heat to dissipate. The West doesn't want to the war, but I very much doubt too that the OPEC+ nations do, either. After all, with the Abraham Accords, Israel and KSA were edging closer together. If there is unwelcome compromise in this approach for the West well, yes, but better this than the World's 3rd Oil Shock or an appalling nuclear exchange or both.
You mentioned Mearsheimer. I know it's wise to listen to opposing views but seeing the title of one of his speeches, something like "How NATO expansion to the West is the cause of Ukraine's war", I just couldn't click on it. As someone from post-Soviet Baltic state - Lithuania - I am 99% sure that we would have been occupied by Russia by now if we haven't joined NATO. Also, who in their right mind would believe that NATO is preparing to attack a country with the most nuclear weapons in the world ?
After researching war in Ukraine, I think the most plausible reason is that Putin could not let Ukraine "go West". Ukraine is close to Russia in terms of culture and language. If they adopted the western practices of bussiness and politics and improved their living conditions, Russian society would start having serious questions about Putin's government, and Putin could not let that happen.
On top of that, Putin thinks that giving statehood to Ukraine is basically a mistake of history. Can you have negotiations with someone who denies the very existence of you ?
On the topic of Israel - Palestine, I think that Israel, as the more powerful side, is in the wrong. If I were USA leader, I would stop any support for Israel until they abandon god-damn settlements in the West Bank. Then I would build a university in Palestine, because education is the way to fight terrorism. Terrorism is not people, it's an idea, and you cannot destroy ideas with bombs. USA had 20 years to learn that lesson, and it didn't !
Finally, I want to address the concept of "collective national interests". USA operated with this policy for the last 30 years, and what's the consequence of that ? Half the world hates USA. Worse, they have good reasons to feel that way.
We need wisdom and integrity, not pragmatism, in times like these.
@@Hexanitrobenzene Very good comments and a good discussion. To take your "99% sure" comment first, the key issue is not what you or I think but what Russia thinks. Russia has, since 2003, been unequivocal that Ukraine and Georgia's membership of NATO would be a red line for them. From their perspective, Ukraine as a NATO member could be a base for intermediate nuclear weapons that, because of their location, would place Moscow and critical Russian military facilities within just minutes. This would, in turn, compromise the Russian nuclear forces and their whole deterrence policy. Remember, it was the US who withdrew from all the US-Russian nuclear treaties. In Russia's position, I would take exactly the same view. And when the US was in a mirror image position, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, they too took exactly the same view.
Turning to the related "go West" point, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the most plausible reason was national security, as I've stated above. My strong sense is that the reason the Special Military Operation was triggered was because the Russian General Staff were watching the US and Britain help Ukraine build a large army, and that even though the US began saying to the Russians that Urkaine would probably not join NATO, the Russian's didn't trust the US - and that if they were to prevent this strengthening security threat on their borders, the longer they left it, the greater would be the Russian casualties when they did intervene.
On Putin's and a mistake of history, it is worth listening to John Mearshiemer and/or reading Putin's speeches, rather than guessing. As John says, Putin did think that the establishment by Kruschev of Ukraine including Crimea and the Donbass was a mistake. But there is no evidence before 2014 that he wanted to turn back the clock of history. There is evidence that he wishes to preserve the rights of ethnic Russians who live outside the borders of Russia, which is natural.
On Israel-Palestine, we're on a very similar page, so nothing more to say here.
Finally on "collective national interests", I disagree with you that the US operated such a policy for the last 30 years. Rather I would say that the US has operated a policy focused largely on US national interest, and at the expense of Europe. We have been slow to recognise this. The US has, for example, vociferously argued against Germany's bilateral relationship with Russia on gas, to the extent that, according to Sy Hersch, they went as far as destroying the Nord-Stream II pipeline - one of the results being that Germany is now falling into recession. Difficult to see how that action equates with "collective national interests"?
Finally, and much more fundamentally, we are now having to confront the reality - not the possibility - that we live not in a uni-polar world dominated by a US hegemon, but a multi-polar world, where the US and the West are no longer dominant. Where the BRICS nations are of equal, if not greater, power. And where the 3rd World no longer fears the US. In such a world, wisdom and integrity matters, of course it does. But sometimes, when dealing with other nation-states that do not share our values - nor take kindly to attempts for us to impose these values upon them - it is wise to be pragmatic.
@@stevenjermy1098
I don't think you can draw parallels with Cuban Missile Crisis. In that case, Russian rockets were already deployed in Cuba, and USA imposed a blockade on Cuba. Ukraine was not even invited to join NATO, and Russia launched a full scale invasion as a preventative measure ?
In the last few years I have become very cynical of international relations.
USA behaves like a calculating psychopath, betraying their proclaimed values where it's convenient.
Russia behaves like a paranoid schizophreniac, seeing enemies everywhere around.
Israel, in a very sad twist of irony, is on the way to become 21st century Nazies.
Seems like China is the real winner here, with its Belt and Road intiative. I'm not a fan of China, knowing their domestic policies, but their international policy seems positive on average.
"Virtually a full time job trying to create a world view that I have some confidence in." Amen. And as Chuck says, the knowledge level of many of our elected representatives seems to be just abysmal.
Chuck is an exceedingly wise man. Great episode. If only the world would listen.
Not an uplifting conversation as you warned, but a valuable one. One that we all need to hear. Thank you so much for your incredible work.
I'm a bit backlogged on your program Nate, but this one I'll be listening right away. Chuck Watson knows what he's talking about for sure. I think this is the kind of knowledge we cannot act much upon but still have to learn about, as the risks are so great.
For a primer in American International relations i would suggest General Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket". Written in the 1930's by the most decorated Marine in American History, it is an expose of the "unholy marriage" between government, military and corporate forces. It is an eye-opening jaw-dropper which has given me a better grasp of world events for over 30 years.
For understanding the Zionist movement I suggest “ Against Our Better Judgment “ by Alison Weir. Tons of footnotes, links to actual audio recordings of the founders talking about Nabka. Extremely informative and sad at the same time.
The only channel I enjoy who stay to its roots since its beginning and not trying to follow trends. Thanks for the work, Nate!!
PS: My only will it be have more often guests from Europe and talks about Europe also.
I love your show, Nate, but a little suggestion about your audio: notch down the music intro by about 6 dB. It always jumps out as very loud in comparison to voice levels.
TRUE
I listened to the whole podcast and found it balanced and to-the-point. The subject may be out of your comfort zone, but you tackled it head on with the right expert, and I even found it enlightening. Homo sapiens in a complex species that has gotten itself into a whole lot of scrapes; global warming and planetary limits is just one of them. War - and long-lasting animosity - is another one, and this latest flare-up in Israel has overshadowed everything else. I love your programme: the subject, the experts you invite, and your thoughtful, well-informed approach to your interviews. You take the time to think things through, to make sure you understand, so that we, your listeners, can fully understand. It was important to make this segway into a highly volatile subject that will have ramifications around the world, including the United States. Thanks for being there.
Good evening Nate and Chuck
Thankyou for this shared difficult discussion.
Needing to open our eyes to the lack of healthy governance. It's systems seem old and not really fit for purpose. Appearing deliberate, too complex to unravel! Just a wee worry, concern.
Needs to begin with the PEOPLE for sure, people working new politics, striving to unravel the old transforming to something new.
HUMAN Resources and it's associated policies, procedures, protocols do not serve the HUMAN either it has become all too clear.. Parliament and its Bills and associated powers again different but indeed the same.
Do not serve well enough, not in any fair way, shape or form. Putting it simply and politely.
Needing macro and micro actions from innovation and people to maybe wake up a wee bit more to do so effectively.
Super grateful for your work.
Sanity brain gym.
💜
What a truthful realistic unbiased discussion Thank you
One of the last things Nate does in this conversation is to remind us that the world has been saved on two or three occasions since 1960 by people who didn’t follow orders. All of the occasions that I can think of involved extraordinarily brave Russians. But I don’t think we should count on this being built into the fabric of the universe. At some point the world will almost certainly run out of extraordinarily brave Russians, and that will be it.
I fear that people in the west have developed an overwhelming character flaw of moral cowardice. They will not want to be "cancelled" by peers on social media by disobeying orders and will do so up to and including nuclear war. We have media which will cheer lead war and cheer lead the persecution of whistle blowers and refusniks.
Fantastic interview and particularly so because you both were able to breakdown a complex topic into important ideas that were communicated effectively and cogently.
I wish you wouldn't make teasers. I wish no one would. They are so not needed and remind my only of the days when I was still watching the horrible commercial television channels.
A most excellent interview. Touching on subjects that both interest and concern me. Thanks Nate for giving me a measure to put my thoughts alongside to.
Somone needs to tell Nate and his guests to stop saying, "well put your viewers to sleep." This is not network news, folks. We are here because we want to know more. Stop using this phrase as an excuse to avoid certain topics. Just be honest about not knowing enough or not wanting to talk about it.
Very much looking forward to more conversations about the changes in governance that will be needed!
“Fix your roof while the sun is shining not when the rain starts”
I am a follower of yours for many decades (I am 91 years old). Please consider the concept of "solving for the wrong variable".
ruclips.net/video/aVnJ7SBjL_4/видео.html
Is this what you mean?
The UN system has completely broken down? Was it working before?
No, it failed to come to the rescue of the U.S. when George W. Bush and his thugs stole the presidential election in 2000, and it's been downhill ever since.
humans are a flawed species, they are the weakest link in any system. 😃
The USA abandoned it in the 70's and Europe followed. Without First world leadership, the Third world will not advance.
Great discussion with Chuck Watson, Nate. Peter Zeihan of Zeihan on Geopolitics posted this: (available via RUclips) “Gaza and Israel: The Start of WWIII or an Isolated Conflict?” His opinion on the Israeli/Hamas conflict was that it would not result in WWIII. Having viewed/listened to your conversation with Chuck Watson leads me to think Peter Zeihan is being too optimistic, but I still hope Zeihan’s right🤔
You'll tell me that with ifs, we can bottle Paris... Nevertheless, the Egyptian authorities claimed to have warned the week before the abominable massacre committed by armed Hamas militants that a large-scale operation was being prepared in the Gaza Strip, without the far-right government of Netanyahu giving it the slightest follow-up... Because such an attack was a great opportunity to make people forget its maneuvers to enslave the Israeli judicial system, as well as its embezzlement, but above all to satisfy the most unspeakable desire of this government: to finish off the population of Gaza by taking the pretext to carry out either a deportation or forced exodus of them to Egypt, or its outright elimination. After all, didn't his defense minister recently refer to the Palestinians as subhuman? Cynicism in politics and reasons of state never cut corners. Remember the weapons of mass destruction that Iraq supposedly possesses and the million deaths that this US-led war has caused.
Agree a lot with what he says. But how he thinks American influence on geo politics was generally viewed as essentially benign seems a bit of a stretch. Also thinking that 20 to 1 kill rate of Palestinians is somehow justified from an Israeli point of view. An ongoing land grab and illegal occupation always seems to be played down in a lot of debate about Palestine.
Indeed. But I guess that's merely a matter of military necessity. Something us silly civilians just can't appreciate. Then that was followed up by the halfway serious consideration that Hamas somehow destroyed their own hospital, presumably because the all-out nakedly pro-Israel mainstream media said so. AND NOT OBVIOUSLY ISRAEL DESTROYING THE HOSPITAL.....
So that wasn't too impressive to hear.
Excellent nuance here on the psychostrategics after taking account of the various inventories of the major and 2nd echelon nuke countries today..
Yes, Nate, a round table on this topic alone should be a high and imminent priority for The Great Simplification.
A thousand "thumbs up" for a Roundtable on Governance.
Another excellent discussion. Thank you... and continue on.
Israel does not hesitate to subject the Palestinian population of the West Bank to a regime of apartheid with its streets reserved for them, Israelis to Jews and foreigners, but forbidden to Palestinian residents in cities like Hebron or Bethlehem. The Israeli state has supported the illegal establishment of Jewish settlements in the middle of the West Bank, fragmenting it like a Swiss cheese or checkpoint that more regiments the lives of Palestinians than it was in South Africa during the time of white domination.
So, you see, it should come as no surprise that such Machiavellian scenarios are possible right now. Collectively punishing a people for acts committed by a part of its population is a crime against humanity and prohibited by international conventions. But here it's the law of retaliation.
As a South Afican i am apalled that you have the temerity to tell us that Israel is in any way similar. You missed a plum in not calling Hitler !!!
@@markalexander5124So why did Mandela say, “We are not free until Palestine is free”?
I remember that podcast Nate. I listened to it twice. Chuck was right on target.
Thank you for this, found it sensible and a sane conversation so much so that I’ve subscribed. Also grateful that there were no hideous adverts crashing in, thank you for not having them.
This was very informative as well as frightening. One topic not discussed but needs to be is how diplomacy can cope with somewhat deranged leaders. Putin is one; some of the members of the Israeli government are another; some of the leadership of Hamas is still another; the president of the US who preceded the present one is perhaps the most obvious case. The unfortunate fact is that power attracts sociopaths and sometimes they make it to the top.
Great video. Chuck never gets old.
Absolutely need unbiased information in all areas for the population that will drive it to our leaders if they are to be elected.
Some of us do use a variety of investigative researchers. Bellingcat is a good place to start
I’d be interested if Nate did one about sand. It is a resource which is being gobbled up and the method extraction is causing damage to the environment
All extraction damages the environment.
@@AlanDavidDoane Yes you are right, poor writing from me
Yeah right on point. But at least Houston’s not in the World Series. The only positive I can come with.
“Ask who you are not allowed to criticize” There’s your answer. 💵
2:45 any attempt to accurately describe the reality of our situation is rarely if ever uplifting. But thanks for the heads up Nate! 🙂
Thanks for the confirmation. I have felt Its shtf right now yet no one i know seems to see it. Great interview with chuck and his life time of experience
the Great Simplification / Radiological Event........great chat, thanks guys....looks like it's time to let my whiskers grow!
Is it being informed or financially biased by lobbyists, which I believed is legalized bribery
100% agree. That is the only explanation that matches their behavior. I have only worked with state and county level politicians and self interest and interests of their funders is what they are always interested in.
I have always believed that ambition gets you out of bed, although it can be detrimental to your beliefs. The system we have created is all about trying to get some of the economical surplus regardless of the cost. We all justify our actions. The financial system has captured how we organise as a society.
A timely discussion Nate. This has been ongoing before the birth of Mohammed and Christ. The Romans at the time with an overwhelming local military force, allowing local religions alone , could not resolve the mideast hatred. I doubt a solution is found given the hatred for 3,000 years. In so many areas (US congress right now) we are seeing humans becoming rigid in their dogma leading to dysfunction. Complex human systems need cooperation, collaboration and coordination which seem to be increasingly scarce as the poly crisis progresses. Humans have been around for 0.000001 per cent on the planet's past and in this short time have managed to bugger things up royally. Need wisdom, a global governance system and be done with nation states.
Global governance...no thanks.
What would global governance do? Redistribute wealth? Allocate resources? Constrain some people and help others?
I have lived all over the world.
Idealisms seldom succeed in the face of reality. Humans are greedy, self destructive and self preserving.
A global governance system will eventually become self serving, as all governance systems do.
"There have been more civilian casualties in 10 days of the war between Hamas and Israel than there have been in 2 years of high intensity conventional warfare between Ukraine and Russia". There have been *close* to as many in the former as in the latter.
That's surprising enough, and makes the point without undermining Chuck's credibility.
Looking forward to the discussion on governance with Chuck
I love your work Nate. Thanks for sharing this.
Many would say that from the American perspective things gotten worse.The subtle ablation of American hegemony around the world is disquieting. Many others around the world view a multi-polar world as a positive, mutually beneficial thing where one power does not hold sway over everything. A basic tenet of Capitalism is that monopolies are intrinsically bad. Is America an exception to that fundamental tenet?
Riveting conservation which deserves to be shared widely.
Thanks for this podcast, Nate
I see a parallel message here between what Bill Rees always says is our only hope for substantial change: political engagement. We cannot hope to change our government in the way Chuck is describing without becoming heavily involved in politics ourselves.
Sorry but this whole "I'm a-political" stance from most scientists is not going to cut it anymore.
The fourth turning in full bloom!
MONEY and Love of money and the use of money is the problem.
Taking IT out of the equation is the only way to a positive Ballance.
It's not so much that we are "energy/geopolitics blind". The root issue is we are "Risk Blind". The human brain is not evolved to view risks in a global systems context. There is also far too much "momentum" in this system for a "soft landing". Great discussion.
More risk ignorant, by design, but do you know how many kwh you use per day, do you know how many kw's are in a litre or gallon of diesel?
I would expect the 1zt one to be common if people were energy aware but at 10.6 or 40.12 as per litre or gallon, not many people are aware.
I disagree the human brain is not evolved etc, but that the human is a product of their surroundings, if people are sitting around like there's nothing wrong and we see people go for driving holidays, then ignorance is bliss.
The root issue isn't something different imo
Fantastic show so much truth
Another fantastic interview! i've learned somethings about international politics.
Talking about the US position on things beginning at about 17:45 minutes, and how in the 80s there were at least some politicians who were in favor of a peace alternative. Chuck should be clear that this is the US POLITICIANS who are clearly in favor of US hegemony and military responses, not the US POPULATION. And that is because the US political process has been completely captured by the money of corporations since the 90s with a step-wise assault on laws governing election financing and media concentration. US politicians today respond only to their ‘clients’, which are in control of the political and media processes in the US. I have strong doubts that the majority of America citizens support the US domination of the world. That would offend our basic values of fairness and cooperation. But that voice is completely drowned out by the money.
Four more comments:
Chuck mentioned briefly the long-range missiles ATACMS that have slipped into Ukraine under the radar somewhat. I would have liked to hear more about those. What are their potential targets? Are they only Crimea and the bridge, or are they capable of reaching Moscow, if Ukraine gets desperate. That sounds disastrous.
Speaking of, Chuck then said that Ukraine might opt for a radiological event? Meaning blow up one of their own nuclear reactors, in order to draw attention back to their struggle? How would that work? Maybe a false flag operation? That could backfire, and would kill Ukrainians and destroy ecosystems, as with Chernobyl.
And speaking of false flags, Chuck apparently feels that the missile that hit the hospital was indeed Israeli, based on its explosion characteristics. That is exactly the type of analysis that is needed. You two both then discussed the problem with distrust of government and media sources (agree). But this podcast, and the expertise of people like Chuck give his evaluation much more credence, which can be the kernel of knowledge from a trusted sources that can spread.
Last, an important topic of this podcast was the possibility of nuclear strikes, mostly the so-tactical strikes. I wish you would have discussed possible targets for Israeli strikes. What could they possibly hit with a nuke? The middle of Gaza? The middle of the West Bank? The border of Lebanon? I doubt there are any deep and rich ‘targets’ in the near Middle East that would accomplish anything. But for me, of most importance, which was not really discussed is the psychological impact of the use of a nuke anywhere in the world. The military men can plot - we hit your ‘target’ with a tactical nuke, then you hit our ‘target’ with another. It is my belief, maybe it’s a hope, that as soon as citizens around the world see an image of a mushroom cloud rising above anything, a harbor, and underground bunker, a column of troops, anything, that people would be so revolted by the image that they would rise up on protest. That image, or that video, would be the single, utterly unacceptable artefact of this insane war, or equally the Ukraine-Russia war. I hope that the world would simply not stand for it. You might say I’m naïve. I don’t think so.
And a last thought, you go back to the topic of good governance and how to achieve that, and I think you are planning a podcast on that topic. I think you should look, in a very Marvin Harris infrastructural determinist way, as I said in my first comment, at the money and the laws that now permit the application of money to dominate the political system. It is not ‘governance’ that is general problem, but it is ‘these current particular politicians in both parties’ that have gained access to their positions of governance through the infrastructure of the current legal-corporate-financial control of the political system in the US. It was not always this way. Can the current situation be reversed? That is the fight that needs to happen first, in order to get politicians who are not beholden to corporate-military clients. - Tom Abel
Hm, this expert gave a pretty balanced assessment of that infamous hospital tragedy. His conclusion is that this was not caused by Israel's bomb:
ruclips.net/video/mKKWRkf5iz8/видео.html
Best thing to teach young people now is a much simpler life is coming and to help each other out and practice kindness. Go find that old person in the neighborhood and mow there lawned sort of thing ..teach old school to these kids that calms anxiety and aggression and worry.
Listening to Biden's Oval Office address the other evening and then listening to Chuck Watson, you can't help but feel that Biden couldn't have things more wrong, which should scare the shit out of all of us (the whole world)--no better example of the leadership and governance crisis. And then the shit-show in the United States House of Representatives.
The one thing that concerns me is how our planet is delicately balanced on Nate Hagen's mike apparatus.
Our fate is indeed precarious.
A suggestion to all who wish to understand reporting, take a journalism law course, then a PR course, and then a editing and writing course. Couple that with a few basic public speaking courses. Do it PNC.
It may help to decipher news.
Depressing but a good summary of the American dilemma with practical analysis. Does Washington simply not understand that it is the actual architect of the US empire decline?
A question you could have asked Chuck, Nate: Where and against whom could the Israeli regime use a nuclear bomb without causing unacceptable risk to itself?
Thanks Nate,
Love your work. I am binge-watch-listening.
Don't like to use the word "addict".
But I am a fan with a fix.
Yes I'm tuning out because I don't trust sources or my ability to sift them. I'm sure tuning out is in someone's interest.
Sharp glasses, Nate!
Looking forward to the next discussion but I am more concerned about we wrest the power away from the current so called Leaders
I'm antiwar. I don't choose sides.
A comment about the 'dearth of knowledge' of elected leadership, and the spectrum of knowledge needed including history, science, engineering; from an engineering perspective the collapse of the twin towers was an engineering impossibility. Attributing this 'miracle' to 'Afghanistan' is a good example of how easily profound errors can be integrated into perspectives despite the integrity and competence of the speaker.
Yes but i do think chuck is a preper. And i bet in private he knows 911 was not afgani . Just like i kmows the jab destroyed his immune system
It was an engineering impossiblity because an attack by airplane was simply not considered.
The common denominators in all the trouble in the world are the USA UK Israel,
Now, any other time before that they weren't, anybody else in their situation could have done the same, or worse.
Despite what's going on in Gaza is inhumane and innocent people are killed in thousands - for real - the struggle is actually a side show.
It is primarily choreographed to better and tighter-control the severely depleting oil fields in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, Syria, Russia and beyond.
But, couldn't a tighter-control over oil fields be done without culling people?
It looks like the answer is - no - confirming an earlier 2017 made claim that all humans are in fact oil-diggers - on oil, after oil, for oil - like an ant colony - all its members are marching together for energy supplies - and a tighter control over oil - automatically means - a smaller population - even if that takes a manual culling - tooth and nail.
At the end of fossil fuels age - Reality itself became an outcome of - the-peak-oil-musical-chairs™-calculator - a people-recycling process.
This far, Israel's PM called what happened - Pearl Harbour and 9/11 - combined - which made many think that - what's really going on - is a smoke and mirrors - the real thing is - fossil fuels, indeed.
"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).
The dearth of expertise of the governance class is most manifest in Western liberal democracies.
I've heard things in the past few days where it sounds like it's being claimed that Russia armed Hamas and that Iran knew nothing about it. Any likelihood that OBS or Ali Khamenei might take issue with Russia if that's the case?
Israel / Palestine is insoluble, mainly because the sustainable population of the whole region is what it was when the State of Israel was created in 1947-1948, and there is no way of going back to this. The total population of the area was 1.8 million of which 1.2 million was Arab and 600,000 was Israeli. Israelis were about one third of the population by then (due to recent mass re-migration from Europe), but still only owned about 7% of the land. But whichever way the population and land were divided in the late 1940s, the fact remains that the economy was sustainable at under 2 million and a self-sufficient lifestyle on both the kibbutzim and the Palestinian equivalent. The same goes for the whole world. Its sustainable population is under 2 billion WITH A SIMPLE LIFESTYLE. A handful of super-rich living luxuriously would be of no consequence, it is the numbers of us absolutely rolling in consumer luxury (relative to previous centuries) that are the problem.
How can we ever get back to national and personal sustainability and self-sufficiency? It seems impossible, especially now that the billions in the Developing World are joining the party or rather the "rave", having noticed that they are sitting on some of the most valuable and vital natural resources on the planet and having no compunction about putting these up for sale to the highest bidder. Just as many small Palestinian farmers did in the 1930s and 1940s - they sold their land to incoming settlers who had more fiat money than a poor farmer could normally ever dream of. Yet what, after all, is fiat money compared to your own home, your own farm, and your own community?
Wiki tells me that "A mess of pottage is something immediately attractive but of little value taken foolishly and carelessly in exchange for something more distant and perhaps less tangible but immensely more valuable. The phrase alludes to Esau's sale of his birthright for a meal ("mess") of lentil stew ("pottage") in Genesis 25:29-34 and connotes shortsightedness and misplaced priorities." How old is Genesis? - anyway, clearly this urge to sell your birthright is an intrinsic part of human nature and has "lighted fools the way to dusty death" innumerable times in the somewhat painful history of our species.
Nations should fix their own propensity to trash their Patrimony inside their own borders before meddling in the affairs of other Nations either through diplomacy or through less peaceful channels. "Physician, heal thyself" is a very ancient Greek and Hebrew proverb appearing most famously (at a later date) in Luke 4:23. There, Jesus is quoted as saying, "Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, 'Physician, heal thyself': whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country." Jesus goes on to point out to the Pharisees that He cannot heal His own land, because He is an outcast there - a common enough situation for dissidents. But He does not deny the truth of the saying in general, at this or any other point in the New Testament. It is Israel that the whole Bible admonishes, not other Nations. And it our OWN Nation now, that we should try to fix, wherever we are in the world (i.e. the advice applies to expats, who to be fair are often working quite hard to fix their OWN Nation and not just luxuriating in the opportunities provided by their host Nation).
Of course we should discuss and take an interest in the affairs of other Nations, because no Nation is an island entire of itself - but we should ACT locally, not globally, where possible, including in Trade (and Aid too), I am afraid.
I guess the strength of this podcast is getting input from varied sources, no matter how suspect.
? Do you have something you'd like to say about the guest or guests?
I have a lot of issues with Chuck Watson's analysis. I dont think he is correct about this which gives me a bit of skepticism on the opinion of your other guest on other topics.
The idea of Waring nations using their plight as a means to gain funding... that is a scary consideration. You don't want this to turn into a case of using grief for marketing.
rumors of governance
Fighting two wars simultaneously and with on-going seething political wars at home may just prove too much for the country. Something has got to break and it may not be pretty for the nation.
extremely knowledgeable, thanks
The Russia Ukraine "thing" did not start our road to isolation. The U.S. used to maintain the global order but has been backing away from that job since the fall of the Soviet Union 30+ years ago.
You can't be backing away when USA has dropped bombs on 38 countries since then.
The USA never maintained global order, they just found themselves at the top of the tree after world war 2, and have been at war since.
Global subjugation actually.
I hold reservations regarding the validity of specific claims, particularly those concerning the depletion of American arms reserves (with the exception of certain ammunition, which should not be overlooked). However, I must acknowledge my limited expertise in this matter. On the other hand, I can unequivocally affirm that the notion of sabotage at a nuclear power station resulting in significant casualties is entirely implausible for a multitude of compelling reasons. Consequently, my skepticism extends to the remainder of the assertions.
On the subject of being informed. Whether society or a legislative body is informed alone isn’t enough. Because how that information is acted upon will determine the outcome and we humans act on self serving instinct.
A positive outcome based on information alone presumes everyone holds the same altruistic perspective. We don’t and we never will because it’s simply not in our nature.
Look forward to watching. I know redundant, but Chuck looks a bit like Billy Corgan. Ain't no bad thing.
horrible topic but great talk, thank you Nate and Chuck for your objectivity while putting this complex issue into perspective, hard task but you guys nailed it. I would only add, that it seems like we are standing in the middle of a global Mexican stand off, and that, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, that is is a good thing and our only hope at the moment, hopefully, nobody is going to pull the trigger, guns will be holstered and this shitstorm will pass.
Remains to be seen in the next episode of the continues soap opera "Homo Sapiens on the third rock away from the Sun"
America cannot afford this. We are energy, tech , and food independent. This can destroy everything for America 🇺🇸. WASHINGTON, Oct 20 (Reuters) - The White House on Friday asked Congress for nearly $106 billion to fund ambitious plans for Ukraine, Israel and U.S. border security, but offered no strategy for securing the money from a broken Congress.
All govt wages are based on debt, all society is, as long as people still accept US dollars around the world then they will print more to afford it. If all debt was paid back there would be no money in the world, you live in a debt based society, maybe we should talk about the trillions spent and the recurring interest, who are these people who own such a large part of our lives.
Would you consider inviting Bernie Sanders? He recently gave a number of interviews in Germany.
people also have cats :-)
GROUND NEWS- They give you alot of leanings of where the info is coming from. Listed on every story!!!
Tunev out and tend to your potatoes
Doomsday clock comes to mind
I can watch two more then YT is going to shut me out.
Anyone with enough money can rise to a leadership position regardless of their level of knowledge of the area they are expected to lead. Maybe we should subject anyone running for public office to an exam that could detect cognitive biases or ignorance of the concept of overshoot and planetary boundaries.
At this point humanity is over-complicating conflict -- is this on purpose? You have land, sub-surface mineral rights, air space -- all these can have owners, assigned to them, by title in a registry. If you do that, what's the point of war? Why is this solution discussed exactly NOWHERE?
In a world where land is owned, and a missile hits a parking lot or a building -- whomever fired it owes the owner some damages.
In our world it's an "oopsy". This is embarrassing in its juvenile attitude.
Where should the borders of nations fall? EXACTLY WHERE LANDOWNERS IN THE BORDER AREA WANT IT.
Of course the state will NEVER suggest people really owning land. Because the state is a creature of the so-called commons. The commons -- so owned by everyone it respected by no-one.
Tac Nuke as used on Beruit ..apparently it was fertilizer.
Your sadness. I'm sorry it has to be displayed. We all share it.
Rothschild Incorporated
Isn't that where Laverne and Shirley worked...?
lord, hear our prayer … 🕊
Which lord?
They all have ears?
@@antonyjh1234 wide open. A few ideas: Ground of Being, Great Love, Spirit, Light, God in every one and every thing .. whatever greater power one prays to / falls on knees to when overwhelmed by grief, beauty, truth, love, pain, gratitude, sorrow etc …
If you want to add ears to your god, why you just feel free to go for it.
Well, it's not that, there are plenty of people who don't believe anything about any gods, let alone their ears.
Sometimes while I appreciate people have the freedom of religion I really wish we could have freedom from it as it adds nothing to the conversation.@@jennysteves
God is a comedian…
...without fuel no humanitarian aid is worth a dime
The guest suggesting Ukraine are likely to blow up their own reactor to regain international attention was outrageous. Who is that justified? Its really strange but in this space - systems thinking, peak oil, collapse - an enormous amount of people have this weird affection for Putin and Russia. Chuck Watson can be added to the list.
The latest possible outrageous outcome in a conflict with a long list of outrageous events. Nord stream, the dam etc, what's one more.
Nate, can I talk with you?
i propose that the task of governance should not be left to professional politicians.
i believe that a few grandmothers, religious leaders, professors, and psychologists from both sides could find solutions which professional politicians ignore.
politicians are by nature aggressive and one-sidedly nationalistic.
i say trust the grandmothers and their expert allies in several pertinent fields.
the politicians have created nasty violent conditions in many places.
we should seek solutions elsewhere.