What are some of the other instances? I couldn't find anything other than what you pointed out when I looked at the subreddit or anyplace else on the internet. Thanks.
I agree. i went to my first PTQ last satrueday and i was super tense, and for the first time in my magic career i never made a mistake, you paly at your best at that level and i wasnt even IN the pro tour just a PTQ.
yup. 13 lands at the start of the turn, 16 at the end... the top right land is hard to see under the hallowed fountain but it is clearly there! Good catch!
I think some people forget that DeTora is also a judge herself, I don't know her specific levelling as a judge but she would have a greater knowledge of some specific rules. As xXKILLAXyourXgodXx said she did point out a mistake in her OPPONENT'S life total being one less than it should've been and she picked up on that. There has been a rule change that says that card triggers don't have to be announced and they will take place, this rule change DID affect an earlier match because triggers
That's a really good point however in my oppinion it's the fact that she played those two land drops so close to one another that makes it quite believable that she meant it. I mean it must have been all of 3 seconds inbetween playing the two cards. However I concede that I've never played 15 rounds of magic so I don't know exactly how exhausting it can be.
Yeah I agree I was just at the Grand Prix in Pittsburgh and played about 7 side events and ill tell you what by the end of the day I could barely remember the name of half of the cards let alone put together a winning game when you have a bunch of judges hounding you about how much time you have left
Here is another idea, She is so used to the idea of laying a second land while searching for a one with farseek, that it was just instinct to do that. It looked very smooth and like something she would have practiced. She didn't announce that the land had entered the battlefield or let her opponent know. Just an idea.
it wouldn't matter. really she isn't trying to fix her mana base that late in the game if you notice she farseeked the exact same land she just played. i feel she played the land first so she could say go right away. so dave could start his turn while she's grabbing a land real quick. It was more of just a short time saver
When something like this happens in a big tournament, I believe the error is most likely the result of stress. If the opponent and the judge missed that, we can assume that Melissa also lost count of the lands she played. It can happen in turns that many things happen
They were talking about the double searing spear targeting her Angel. Which would have ended the game in a draw. Albeit the swinging of the angel alludes to some chance at him winning.
weren't announced some decisions were made that resulted in a game loss because not all triggers were announced and this caused in some choices to be made that costed someone a game. DeTora wrote about this rule change and her dislike for it in a TCG Player wanting the older system where all triggers should be announced otherwise they either didn't happen or they did with some type of penalty. I don't think DeTora would knowingly or willingly jeopardise her standing as a Pro Player and a judge
As a redditor and someone who is subscribed to the MTG subreddit, I found only one instance of Melissa DeTora's "cheating" being mentioned and it's the example that is featured in this video. Unless you have a 100% proof that she was aware of the mistake she made she can't say that she is cheating.
He got a game loss not a match loss (he just happened to draw the extra card in game 3 so it ended the match) and he got that penalty because it is the proper penalty according to the IPG for GPE drawing extra cards. The penalty for this mistake would have just been a warning.
The "punishment" for an extra land drop is probably a game loss or maybe even just a warning, and that's only if the judge sees it at the time. Clearly the judge did not, so the window to do anything about it has closed And I'm not arguing that it wasn't illegal, because it clearly WAS illegal. It's just that accusing someone of intentional cheating without enough reason to believe that they have done so is disrespectful and dishonorable.
in the grand scheme of things, whether that extra land did anything is not the worst thing in the world, unless the scenario that followed afterwards led to her seemingly having enough lands to change the game tide, it didnt matter either way, the result was the same. You can claim that she was nervous, so she didnt have the concentration, but given that there are actually more claimed instances of her cheating, this may make for a fairly interesting look back of what to look for.
I understand she was under pressure but I'm fairly certain she knew what she did. The series in which she plays the set of cards and how quickly she plays the turn implies that she was aware of her "mistake."
I don't think the extra hollowed fountain was intentional. They were running up to time, I'm pretty sure they were both rushing towards the end. If anyone caught it, it woulda been a warning, but no one there actually caught the illegal game state. What's more, the extra hollowed fountain didn't affect the game in any way. Why would you intentionally play an extra land and take the risk when it wouldn't benefit you in the slightest? Why take the risk for something so stupid.
have not fully seen the game, but do you think she did it on purpose? And did it affect the course of the game? Of course cheating is cheating, just sayin.
If that's true, then she should be given a game loss. If LSV was given a game loss for accidentally drawing a card when he had the ability to draw his library at will, then i don't see why she shouldn't suffer the consequences. She probably did not do it on purpose, maybe she just got caught up in the stress since it's unlikely that players at their level would cheat.
mm, whether or not that was a mistake on her part, its still against the rules. And should have been rightfully punished. Whether or not it was intentional or not should not have any bearing on the her being punished for what she did.
Suring draft she killed an artifact (armoured transport i think) with a grisly spectacle and a few times she just kept misplaying keep an eye out if your watching more she fucks up almost once a game and never gets called on it
I'm quite surprised by how quick people are to brand Melissa a cheater. I admit that its possible that she really wanted that 16th land, but given that she had just played 15 rounds of competitive magic and was almost out of time in that match - its seems more likely that she made a mistake. Its easy to judge when you have never experienced that kind of pressure yourself.
I dont no whether to sit on the fence but what stands out to me is the way she does it. Why would u play farseek then play a land b4 lookin for ur land with farseek. It does look very suspicious
I doubt Melissa is a cheater, earlier in the tournament she points out to her opponent hat he has marked his life total 1 less than it should have been. This was after they had both confirmed his life total and he had no knowledge of this, this behaviour just doesn't seem to be that of a cheater.
Cheating in anything where there are officials and where players may challenge that goes unnoticed happens a lot in sports and other things. Maybe she cheated on purpose, maybe it was a complete mistake. She lost so it works out. Imagine the fall out if she won the tournament. I still really like her deck idea and wish her luck in the future.
If you want to see cheating look at Jon Finkel, the greatest Magic player of all time, playing a Drokskol Reaver deck in the Pro Tour. He forgots his life total, and his opponent doesn't remember either, in one of the most important games in his life. There's no way anyone's cheating with three judges at the tables. Everyone's nerves are shot.
Since the extra hallowed fountain didnt truley contribute to her win i guess its not horrible.. But the judge watching over that match should be fired Also gerry lost some weight
Don't throw words like "cheating" around when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Melissa isn't stupid enough to cheat out an irrelevant land. She had more than enough mana to do what she needed to do anyway, and the extra land never had any effect on gameplay. This is her forgetting that she had already had her land drop, pure and simple.
She didn't gain any advantage from it...she was obviously speeding up, most likely due to the clock..and she didn't even make a land drop the next turn. Looks like a mistake. There's no real strategic advantage to trying to cheat there, unlike the 3 land explore guy. We've all been in the "did i drop a land this turn?" zone when playing. That's what this looks like.
She didn't cheat after she plays farseek she looks at her hand puta down a hallowed fountain then picks up her deck and finds a hallowed fountain it's a legal plau she did nothing wrong
Look at the way she played both of the fountains at about the 57:30 mark, she plays the 2nd land drop (illegal) and then puts the farseeked land ON TOP OF IT to HIDE the fact that she played TWO lands from her hand that turn, she farseeked for a fountain because she had one in hand, and knew the only way to hide her cheating would be to farseek for the same land and play one on top of the other
Congrats to Martell! Awesome Guy and Deck! I am not sure if De Tora did it intentionally at 57:00 yet if you know you already played a land then casted a spell which you need to trigger first, I guess you need to let the spell trigger before you do anythingelse because putting another land after you casted a spell simultaniously will perfectly defeats the other player's eyes. That's why it's Pro Tour, because you can see people who do anything just to win yet I don't like cheating. Come On!
![SCGINVI - Round 1 - Gerry Thompson vs Korey McDuffie [Modern]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dAOJzsBu1f8/mqdefault.jpg)
What are some of the other instances? I couldn't find anything other than what you pointed out when I looked at the subreddit or anyplace else on the internet. Thanks.
I didn't pay super attention and i saw what you pointed at but did it actually help her win?
The red deck sleeves, i wanna know where to buy them
why do they talk about double searing spear at ~ 1:03:20? she has the orb, the spear cant target her anyway
I agree. i went to my first PTQ last satrueday and i was super tense, and for the first time in my magic career i never made a mistake, you paly at your best at that level and i wasnt even IN the pro tour just a PTQ.
However, upon further thought, they may have been referring to double searing spear for the angel?
yup. 13 lands at the start of the turn, 16 at the end... the top right land is hard to see under the hallowed fountain but it is clearly there! Good catch!
I think some people forget that DeTora is also a judge herself, I don't know her specific levelling as a judge but she would have a greater knowledge of some specific rules. As xXKILLAXyourXgodXx said she did point out a mistake in her OPPONENT'S life total being one less than it should've been and she picked up on that. There has been a rule change that says that card triggers don't have to be announced and they will take place, this rule change DID affect an earlier match because triggers
Totally agree. There is so much stuff constantly happening in the modern game, misplays happen all the time...
I find it hard to believe that gianluca has been playing since fucking alpha.
That's a really good point however in my oppinion it's the fact that she played those two land drops so close to one another that makes it quite believable that she meant it. I mean it must have been all of 3 seconds inbetween playing the two cards. However I concede that I've never played 15 rounds of magic so I don't know exactly how exhausting it can be.
Gianluca Spanu vs Gerry Thompson
Round 1 0:40
Round 2 11:47
Round 3 24:42
Tom Martell vs Roberto Gonzales
Round 2 35:54
Dave Shiels vs Melissa DeTora
Round 3 42:37
Ah ok thanks, I was confused about another comment about 2 searing spears. Tx for clearing it out.
Really love the way Gerry T. deck plays!
Is Experiment One the new champion of the parish?
Everyone who play creatures under the land cards deserve to lose.
Yeah I agree I was just at the Grand Prix in Pittsburgh and played about 7 side events and ill tell you what by the end of the day I could barely remember the name of half of the cards let alone put together a winning game when you have a bunch of judges hounding you about how much time you have left
actually those are kmc matte red sleeve
Azorious charm is so much better than I thought it was.
Here is another idea, She is so used to the idea of laying a second land while searching for a one with farseek, that it was just instinct to do that. It looked very smooth and like something she would have practiced. She didn't announce that the land had entered the battlefield or let her opponent know. Just an idea.
It's crazy how small the time gap was, how did a judge not see that, my god
it wouldn't matter. really she isn't trying to fix her mana base that late in the game if you notice she farseeked the exact same land she just played. i feel she played the land first so she could say go right away. so dave could start his turn while she's grabbing a land real quick. It was more of just a short time saver
When something like this happens in a big tournament, I believe the error is most likely the result of stress. If the opponent and the judge missed that, we can assume that Melissa also lost count of the lands she played. It can happen in turns that many things happen
At 20:29 why did he block the Geist without undying trigger Geist comes back then Gerry verdicts next turn for lethal
is there any retroactive punishment available for this?
Limited Edition Mountain at 45:00. I don't know if it's Alpha or Beta but Revised Mountain picture + black border means limited. Oh boy oh boy.
ooooh, I see thanks :)
they were referring to double spear killing the angel
They were talking about the double searing spear targeting her Angel. Which would have ended the game in a draw. Albeit the swinging of the angel alludes to some chance at him winning.
I know it's crazy I saw it in the earlier episodes and she uses her extort better than anyone else i've seen.
weren't announced some decisions were made that resulted in a game loss because not all triggers were announced and this caused in some choices to be made that costed someone a game. DeTora wrote about this rule change and her dislike for it in a TCG Player wanting the older system where all triggers should be announced otherwise they either didn't happen or they did with some type of penalty. I don't think DeTora would knowingly or willingly jeopardise her standing as a Pro Player and a judge
Oh gosh! thanks so much!! :3
1:03:35 Did he scoop, or they were at their 5th turn? If he scooped, I'm missing something here. He had double searing spear to kill the Angel...
As a redditor and someone who is subscribed to the MTG subreddit, I found only one instance of Melissa DeTora's "cheating" being mentioned and it's the example that is featured in this video. Unless you have a 100% proof that she was aware of the mistake she made she can't say that she is cheating.
Finally the audio is synced!
Dat Azorius Charm. Doin' work.
He got a game loss not a match loss (he just happened to draw the extra card in game 3 so it ended the match) and he got that penalty because it is the proper penalty according to the IPG for GPE drawing extra cards.
The penalty for this mistake would have just been a warning.
The "punishment" for an extra land drop is probably a game loss or maybe even just a warning, and that's only if the judge sees it at the time. Clearly the judge did not, so the window to do anything about it has closed
And I'm not arguing that it wasn't illegal, because it clearly WAS illegal. It's just that accusing someone of intentional cheating without enough reason to believe that they have done so is disrespectful and dishonorable.
I love DeToras sleeves though!
ben youre talkin to the wrong camera lol
wow nice find..
in the grand scheme of things, whether that extra land did anything is not the worst thing in the world, unless the scenario that followed afterwards led to her seemingly having enough lands to change the game tide, it didnt matter either way, the result was the same. You can claim that she was nervous, so she didnt have the concentration, but given that there are actually more claimed instances of her cheating, this may make for a fairly interesting look back of what to look for.
Melisa pay attention when your Thragtusk goes to the graveyard, two times you missed having two 3/3 Beast tokens.
It's okay buddy. I still love you!
I understand she was under pressure but I'm fairly certain she knew what she did. The series in which she plays the set of cards and how quickly she plays the turn implies that she was aware of her "mistake."
I don't think the extra hollowed fountain was intentional. They were running up to time, I'm pretty sure they were both rushing towards the end. If anyone caught it, it woulda been a warning, but no one there actually caught the illegal game state. What's more, the extra hollowed fountain didn't affect the game in any way. Why would you intentionally play an extra land and take the risk when it wouldn't benefit you in the slightest? Why take the risk for something so stupid.
have not fully seen the game, but do you think she did it on purpose? And did it affect the course of the game? Of course cheating is cheating, just sayin.
he had spear and mizzium Mortars not double spear
1:03:21 Lol they were talking about maybe DeTora having to worry about 2x searing spears when she has hexproof... XD
To target the Angel when she end of turn plays it so he wont be killed by angel +kessig
If that's true, then she should be given a game loss. If LSV was given a game loss for accidentally drawing a card when he had the ability to draw his library at will, then i don't see why she shouldn't suffer the consequences. She probably did not do it on purpose, maybe she just got caught up in the stress since it's unlikely that players at their level would cheat.
Nvm I missed the harbor earlier on
mm, whether or not that was a mistake on her part, its still against the rules. And should have been rightfully punished. Whether or not it was intentional or not should not have any bearing on the her being punished for what she did.
I love skullcrack
"The Exsperiment one"
Suring draft she killed an artifact (armoured transport i think) with a grisly spectacle and a few times she just kept misplaying keep an eye out if your watching more she fucks up almost once a game and never gets called on it
they had 3 mins left on the clock, hence her speed.
If you look at it closely just the way she does it makes me think she was trying to hide the fact she was cheating.
God melissa's white black extort draft was beautiful
I'm quite surprised by how quick people are to brand Melissa a cheater. I admit that its possible that she really wanted that 16th land, but given that she had just played 15 rounds of competitive magic and was almost out of time in that match - its seems more likely that she made a mistake. Its easy to judge when you have never experienced that kind of pressure yourself.
I dont no whether to sit on the fence but what stands out to me is the way she does it. Why would u play farseek then play a land b4 lookin for ur land with farseek. It does look very suspicious
maybe double searing spear the top decking resto.
I doubt Melissa is a cheater, earlier in the tournament she points out to her opponent hat he has marked his life total 1 less than it should have been. This was after they had both confirmed his life total and he had no knowledge of this, this behaviour just doesn't seem to be that of a cheater.
funny thing is she really didn't need that extra land XD
Cheating in anything where there are officials and where players may challenge that goes unnoticed happens a lot in sports and other things. Maybe she cheated on purpose, maybe it was a complete mistake. She lost so it works out. Imagine the fall out if she won the tournament. I still really like her deck idea and wish her luck in the future.
1:04:14....Tweety Books and Facey Pages.
It could have been an oversight.
it wasnt really a game breaking event, she didnt need it so i'm sure it wasnt on purpose.
If you want to see cheating look at Jon Finkel, the greatest Magic player of all time, playing a Drokskol Reaver deck in the Pro Tour. He forgots his life total, and his opponent doesn't remember either, in one of the most important games in his life. There's no way anyone's cheating with three judges at the tables. Everyone's nerves are shot.
she totally did, isnt that what judges are there for watching her?
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
i dont think her cheating was intentional.
no wonder she went undefeated day 1 then.
Would be a warning
SO you didn't watch the video...got it...
It actually frustrates me zac hill had to ruin this match. His commentary was horrible and you can see he really doesn't get the game.
57:10 Melissa DeTora play 3 lands nice cheat ;) 57:26
Since the extra hallowed fountain didnt truley contribute to her win i guess its not horrible.. But the judge watching over that match should be fired
Also gerry lost some weight
cause he needed to double spear the end step resto angel Melissa was going to flash in
guys Kessig gives creatures +x/+0... Mizzium mortars deals four damage points and that is also what resto's toughness is!!!
Don't throw words like "cheating" around when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Melissa isn't stupid enough to cheat out an irrelevant land. She had more than enough mana to do what she needed to do anyway, and the extra land never had any effect on gameplay. This is her forgetting that she had already had her land drop, pure and simple.
She didn't gain any advantage from it...she was obviously speeding up, most likely due to the clock..and she didn't even make a land drop the next turn. Looks like a mistake. There's no real strategic advantage to trying to cheat there, unlike the 3 land explore guy. We've all been in the "did i drop a land this turn?" zone when playing. That's what this looks like.
You really think someone with as much experience as her would risk cheating to put her 16th land in play when it gains her 0 advantage?
She didn't cheat after she plays farseek she looks at her hand puta down a hallowed fountain then picks up her deck and finds a hallowed fountain it's a legal plau she did nothing wrong
Melissa DeTora
On the Resto Angel, not at her face.
Watch closer, she got them both
Look at the way she played both of the fountains at about the 57:30 mark, she plays the 2nd land drop (illegal) and then puts the farseeked land ON TOP OF IT to HIDE the fact that she played TWO lands from her hand that turn, she farseeked for a fountain because she had one in hand, and knew the only way to hide her cheating would be to farseek for the same land and play one on top of the other
they are just pushing and throwing cards, i dont understand anything
whats the point of this game
Wizards cast Restoration Angel to flicker the players.....1:03:44
Wow nice triple land play...
Congrats to Martell! Awesome Guy and Deck! I am not sure if De Tora did it intentionally at 57:00 yet if you know you already played a land then casted a spell which you need to trigger first, I guess you need to let the spell trigger before you do anythingelse because putting another land after you casted a spell simultaniously will perfectly defeats the other player's eyes. That's why it's Pro Tour, because you can see people who do anything just to win yet I don't like cheating. Come On!
I just lost respect for DeTora. Hope something is being done about her cheating.
Azorius charm pwns and wrecks ...
Nice Hallowed Fountains you have there Melissa, oh u like dropping 2, as if you didn't have enough mana. Sigh cheating lol.
use your eyes
Zac hill makes me mad
doubt she was cheating, having an extra and was no benefit.
Omg nice cheat Melissa, where is the fair play? :|
First but last to be resolved