5’10 here. Always between medium and large. I used to buy the large based on others opinions but quickly found out after 2 different bikes that medium is the way to go. I don’t even try large anymore. I’m medium 100%
6 feet guy here.. I chose Giant Trance X in M over the L, and found myself more comfortable, better cornering and overall better feel on the bike. ALL DAY SIZE DOWN
Honestly, I think pivot just labeled the firebird & shuttle LT different than the industry standard. Sizing up or down has its pros and cons, but more importantly, knowing the reach # range that works for your body is what matters most. Knowing that # and looking at geo charts is an ideal way to find the size for you on a particular bike model. Every manufacturer does it differently. Now if your a height that fits smack dab in the middle of traditional sizes, the type of bike you're looking at may sway you to go up or down to achieve the feel that model was designed for etc Great video and talking point👍
6’ here, I just got a Roscoe that I was going to get in L based on their sizing chart, but at the last second I decided to seek out a store that had a M/L even though it was further away and I’m really glad I did because it fits SO well. The thought occurred to me because I tried my cousins bike which was a M (granted sizes aren’t really consistent among companies), but I found that while it was a little cramped, I felt a lot more nimble than on my Marlin and immediately maneuvers like bunnyhops became 10x easier than on my L Marlin. I think my leg to arm ratio favors my legs or something. In my opinion I can always set the seat higher, but if the reach is off that’s tougher to fix. I think an L still would have worked, but I would have felt a little stretched out and less nimble than I do on the M/L. Just goes to show we’re all built different and rider height is definitely not the end all be all when it comes to picking the right size.
appreciate the low speed /high speed compression adjustment recs esp. Also during the pandemic, working in a lbs when people were all about getting BIGGER LONGER bikes I recoiled from the "flying squirrel" trend. Like. I wanna be able to maneuver but a lot of people just want to point and go, I guess.
I'm 5'9" so I'm right in between sizes frequently on normal pedal bikes. On an ebike I would have expect the bigger to be nicer and simple monster truck over more with the heavy bike. However the geometry on these bikes seems a little crazy. They're at least one size up (or more) from a normal trail bike so one size down looks pretty normal for an modern aggressive bike that's fairly long.
I’m 6’2” and always at the top end of Large and bottom end of XL. I usually size down, but this year I’ve decided to size up going with a 515 reach and I’ve been liking it so far 🤙🏻
It'll be interesting to see where you notice the biggest improvements and what (if any) downsides/tradeoffs you'll have. Obviously everyone rides different types of trails, so depending on your trails, you may not encounter the stuff where a long bike and losing that front tire will be an issue. Thanks for sharing!
Mate I'm the same size and would never get a bike over 505. Can you tell me what it is like to ride and what bike you got. I want the kenevo sl but the L is 485 and XL is 510. You think i should get the 510?
@@jordanmackay3568 i would size down and put a riser bar if needed. Im 6’3 on a Range VLT XL with 505reach, the cockpit feels ok because of the steep seat tube angle but the bike wheelbase is simply to long for slow tech and tight corner. The inherent stability of an emtb makes me think that it’s probably better to size down , making it a better all-rounder.
I've recently switched from an old Large to a newer Medium (non Es) and thought I was loosing my mind because the new bike just felt small and nose-heavy even if set up with all the clicks an PSIs for my weight... so I was glad that this was mentioned in the vid
Solid video. I had the medium size Firebird n accepted that it was quite big for me & I'm 5'8 which by standards most riders would most likely get a medium on any brand bike. I got the new Firebird in size small & it's exactly what I needed.
Interesting to hear your input. I just had a similar situation with a 2022 Switchblade I purchased. The bike in this review is long by previous Pivot standards. The Switchblade has almost identical reach measurements but with the L and XL size rather than M vs. L. I'm 6' tall but have a +3" ape measurement. I bought a large originally (470mm reach) and found it to be a super fun bike but always felt like I was going to go over the bars when standing and attacking rocks gardens, etc. at higher speeds. The bike was quick and super snappy though. Just felt sketchy going fast (was running seat pushed back and 55mm stem). My local bike shop was awesome enough to order an XL for me and pretty much trade me frames. The XL (490mm reach) allowed me to center my seat on the rails and run a 45mm stem. Basically ended up with the same stack just a 20mm longer reach. My experience with the bigger bike is mixed. It is super stable now and fixed all of my "complaints" of the shorter bike but it's no longer "snappy" though corners and requires a decent amount more effort to hold into a corner. It's more difficult to weight the front appropriately, etc. where the smaller bike had all sorts of front end traction and would smoke a corner. The larger bike is also a handful in super technical uphill climbing due to the added wheelbase. I can keep the front down now on a steep climb, something that was difficult on the smaller frame. All said and done I'd probably stick with the large if I could do it all over. A longer reach puts more weight on my wrists as your mass isn't as centered. Think about it. Steeper seat angles and long reach numbers just bend you at the waist and lean you on your hands. A slacker seat tube and shorter reach balances your upper body weight better. I do Strava most of my rides just for record keeping mostly but have noticed that although the longer bike feels slower none of my rides have reflected that. It has more of an XC feeling position and is easier for me to climb on standing up and more confidence inspiring on the downhills so I guess even in the technical spots where it seems like more of a struggle I must be able to make up for it. Despite not feeling like it will rail a corner quite as well I've still set multiple PR's on it which means it's been faster than any bike I've owned recently. It's an interesting conundrum to say the least. Thanks for the great reviews. Enjoy them all!
Just gone the other way. For me a large feels subtly better than my previous medium, riding style, riding terrain, riding enjoyment, etc, etc, - excepted. I don't race BTW 😁. Each to their own. Ride what you feel most suits. Thanks for work in the vid.👍
At 6’4”, I found the Large was perfect even though the size chart puts me on XL. I experimented with volume spacers but found that bumping the travel to 180mm with the original number of spacers gave me the best experience. I also want to say that Chris was absolutely right. My Trail 429 is an XL and that fits me perfectly
I’m also 6’4 and I can’t imagine riding anything smaller than an xl. If anything I feel like a lot of XL bikes are a bit small. But I haven’t ridden the Pivot shuttle lt yet
Better to slide the saddle forward and install a shorter stem on the larger size than to slide the saddle backward and install a longer stem on a smaller size. When in doubt, size up.
I'd love to try a Pivot shuttle. To have the luxury of 2 sizes to run between to feel the differences is a wicked bonus ! (Though I'm bang in the middle of a Medium) !
Interestingly if you use the RAD system to find out reach and rider area you’ll typically find you’ll downsize although in some cases it might be an upsize but not very often.
Hi there, first of all thanks a lot for another great video. I wanted to consult with you, i am looking forward to buy the 2023 orbea wild, now i am riding an orbea wild 2022 size large, and im wondering if the correct size for me with the new Wild is Medium or Large. I took those bike for a demo ride and i think the medium fell more playfull while the large size feels more stable but belkier. I saw your video about the new Wild 2023 and I wonder ifyou tried also the Medius size or just the large ? And what was your thoughts about it? You also 180 cm hight right? Thanks a lot for any help with that.
I'm 5.10 and I am currently on a 436 reach....and I feel it is the maximum I will ever own, I'm even looking at a new frame in the 420-430 range. I also have a 2018 levo with a 410 reach and it is just about the most comfortable and capable bikes I've ever owned. I prefer to ride the frontend and let the rear drift, and I love tight tech trails and the comfort of a small bike in the air on jumps...it's just way way more fun than a huge plow-sled that these long reaches create. I also ride 27.5 I came up from BMX and dirt jump so I just prefer a smaller bike. A big bike makes me feel like I'm half asleep and a passenger. Also no one ever mentions that only 3 years ago the reach on a medium and sometimes a large is now considered a small.....Why would anyone size up when a bike today is 30-50mm longer than what was available in the same size just a couple years ago......this is what happens when people buy their children 29ers....soon everything will be 36" wheels and a 700mm reach in a medium.
I have spent 2 years riding bigger bike. Im 175 cm the bike was with 470 reach, then I switched to a medium bike with 450 reach... it was so much more fun to ride. the bikes we radon swoop carbon (the bigger bike) and gt force. The reason I went with the bigger initially was that I wanted more stability and room, but after I have switched I came to conclusion that I'm a lot faster on medium just for the reason that I was easier to turn therefore I have more flow on the trails. Tbh I don't feel less stable on the straighter sections either. The down side of the bigger bike was that I need more effort to make it go where I wanted.
I’m all about sizing down. My local bike shop tried to talk me out of my small Rocky Mountain Altitude because the trend is to go bigger. At 5’8” 175, the small is much more lively and fun. Fits like a glove.
Also, my 2021 small is exactly the size of my 2013 medium. Bikes have gotten bigger. Side by side comparison. I actually went home and brought my old bike to the shop before the purchase to convince them 😂
Hey Mr Wolf, in your case would you ride a medium in specialized turbo levo geometry even though you're right at the max height or would you do a large? Asking because I'm in your same shoes, thought the medium is best but every person I talked to is telling me I should do a large. I'm also 5"11 which is the max height for S3 (medium)
5'9" and purchased a L as a novice. Handled well, but seat tube was too long -- okay in the store, but not the trail. All subsequent bike purchases have been M: more responsive, less weight. Important since I ride gnarly, knurly, undulating trails and not smooth downhills. Recently went from 27.5 to 29 with a similar experience: does seem to glide over obstacles better, but feels a bit sluggish in tight turns.
Did the same thing sizing down with my commencal meta power sx after owning an s4 kenevo. I find at higher speed the bigger bike obviously is more stable but definitely was no where near as fun. Can throw the medium around almost like a normal mtb. Im 5’11 also
I'm 6'0" and had a demo day in the fall with this bike. I went with the Large, even though I have a short torso and typically ride a medium bike. I didn't have any issue with the bike, but the spec they loaned me was top to the line, and my daily driver is more middle of the road. So I was more impressed with the fork and shock of the bike. If I were going to purchase one, I would spend time on the Medium to see if I can feel the difference. Thanks, Drew and company for the review. Would the same consideration be needed for the Shuttle SL?
I had a 2019 L instinct and I'm almost 6'3 and it always felt like i was cramped and never felt fully comfortable, and I felt like I was on top of the bike and not in it if you know what i mean. I traded that in this week for a XL Altitude. Depending on arm, leg and torso length plays a huge factor in what bike you should buy.
My comfort & enjoyment on a bike will always be more important than my ego. Too many riders get hung up on the letter (M, L, XL, etc) on the frame than what the measurements of the frame actually are. Just because someone has historically ridden a Large doesn't necessarily mean that they would feel right on some modern Large framed bikes. That's why I currently ride a 2022 Pivot Switchblade in size Medium & I'm 5'11". And I'm having the most fun I've ever had on a bike.
Great video! Do you happen to know what you guys prefer between Medium and Large with Canyon Spectral ON? I'm about 5'10+ and can't decide based on looking at them on paper.
I'm in the same situation today. Being 182 cm with 89 inseam canyon puts me on an M. I guess it will be OK. L will probably feel a tad big/monstertruck for my height.
@@djgenadeloos5893 I'm 180cm and got a Spectral 27.5 in medium - for me a reach of 460 was perfect, it matched the same reach as my previous bike. Lots of online talk is to go for a large in that height range but I'm happy I went medium... as evidenced in the video above.
VanCan brought me to the realization that I care way more about a fun bike than one which is optimal for racing. I'm not a speed demon, nor do I race competitively - I'm just out to have fun. Smaller bikes end up being way more playful, and I'm even back in the 27.5" world these days =D Thanks for this comparison, folks
I’m right at 6’2 perhaps slightly under. I feel like I’ve been on too big of bikes buying XL and it wasn’t until my third bike did I realize what I’d done smh
There has been a lot of discussion on sizing, especially regarding reach/stack, such as the R.A.D. concept. I'm looking hard at a Shuttle SL, as a 5'8" rider who is primarily interested in climb and maneuverability characteristics. I'm seriously considering a small.
IMO, flat RAD is the way to go for trail/enduro, and RAD+ for park DH. The biggest problem is most dudes lie about their height. Look at what is printed on your driver license, and start calculating… you will quickly notice that all bike charts are way off (too big). Im 173cm (5’7 1/2”), and I went from large to small frame, and my riding sky rocketed! 🚀
Yeah I will forever shoot for as close to RAD neutral as I can find stock, minor adjustment from there can be made by simply changing stem to your liking. Used RAD on my Ripmo sizing and made riding sooo much more fun. Stability and confidence is still there even though sized down. works great for me
Yo! What reach would be ideal for a 5'7" (170cm) rider? I like the design of the mondraker Raze R size S but it has a 450mm reach and that looks huge judging by the formula: height in cm x 2.5 which would result in a 425 reach. Hard to find a bike at this height. 🥲
I ran into this issue when going with a large Sentinel in 2019. For anything that was wide open it felt like a rocket ship. When trails got tighter it was a little cumbersome and while climbing tech it was a boat for me. Switched to a 2021 SJ Evo and opted for the S3. I feel like I haven't given up too much on the descent and the bike climbs much better. I think the Sentinel was 475mm and the SJ Evo is 448mm. Maybe the sweet spot would be around 460mm for me but I haven't tried it yet.
I was 5’10” but shrunk to 5’9”. In both cases, at the time, Medium frames (430ish reach) were def easier to man-handle. After a rough enduro race though I was pretty firmly in the “my next bike is a large” camp. Mainly for extra stability in chonk. But after demoing large frames I felt noticeable differences in handling, I was more of a passenger. Since then, modern mediums (450+ reach) along with slacker HTA and longer chainstays, have made Meds more capable where large frames are better suited. And they still retain a more lively ride everywhere else (very important in New England!). I’m so glad I stuck with medium frames, instead of living a lie on a large frame and hating riding.
Yeah in terms of reach. The bike companies have kind of sized up for you. With 430mm being firmly in the "small" range with the average mediums being 450~460mm.
I agree with this. My only complaint is that the steeper seat tube angles has made the effective top tube length shorter (while the reach has got longer). So although the mediums feel more roomy standing up, they feel more cramped sitting down. Can’t win!!
R.A.D. is the key and the correct reach for your body is what to aim at to pick up your right bike size. Once the frame is too big for you, there is no space for correction.
I have always felt in between sizes at 5'9" and always have sized up. Kinda wish i had seen this earlier. Riding an Orbea Rise L. it feels good but wonder if I would have more "fun" on a medium. After watching this....
Any chance @loamwolf will get the new Transition Relay? How does it compare to some of the other light eMTBs or some of the full power with 160/170 travel beasts?
Not a fan of small bikes- I prefer the stability at speed. Im old and have a limited number of crashes left in me, so I like the safety net a bigger bike provides. And if you keep their speed up and lean in flat turns properly they can be pretty quick still in tighter trails. Yeah I can’t do DJ parks as well, but that is such a minuscule part of my riding I don’t care. If I ever get back into riding them more regularly I’ll just go buy a single speed 24 or 26 in bmx for like $500. I used to actually size up but, for me, larges these days are usually where I want them so I just stick to my recommended size. Just bought an Ibis Oso in Large. Has a 500 mm reach and a 1300 mm wheelbase and still ripped the tight singletrack and jumps like an absolute dream. Doesn’t feel like a big bike at all. I have ridden some bikes with these numbers that felt huge. So I think it also depends on the bike itself, especially STA/ eff TTL, front center to rear center balance and, most importantly, the bike’s kinematics.
Drew is 5’11. It was in the video @158 and some other spots but next time we’ll create a graphic similar to the bike geo data. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@TheLoamWolf Thanks! I was scanning through the video a few times to find it when it was done but couldn't find it. I have ordered a fuel exe i L and I am 6ft, but their recommendations are so far from M that I didn't even really consider it even though the reach is farther than what I usually like but M is smaller than what I usually like. Important video, I think the iindustry has gone way to far in recommending too large bikes (especially ebikes).
I usually go for the longer bike. I put shorter stems on, so I still have longer wheelbase, but shorter reach. My ebikes, I go for mullets, my spec enduro is full 29er.
For some reason, this company has decided to basically make a size large and call it a medium. My S4 (large)Turbo Levo is just 9 mm longer in reach, with a 3mm shorter wheelbase (1254mm) in standard geo config. I would def choose the size med in this bike as well.
those chainstays are short! too short for L and XL imo. i love ebikes with long-ish (-/+ 450mm) cs so you can climb super steep stuff. i think the medium fits the cs and reach well, and get why the L would feel off; too much rear tire weight with short rear end.
For those unfamiliar with the R.A.D multiplier it’s your height in centimeters X 2.5 = reach. 2.45 for RAD negative 2.55 for RAD plus Be curious if the guys involved in this test could check out the math to see how accurate that multiplier is? Cool video and topic!
Thanks Jimmy, while we're very interested in RAD, we kinda think it may put bikes a little below our "desired" reach. For example, Drew at 5'11 LOVES 475-480mm reach on ebikes. On pedal bikes 480-485 seems to be a solid spot, but can have a good time, with some sacrifices in super steeps at 475. This begins to show that one static measuring system isn't ideal because different applications or bikes, require different fits. A DH bike, eMTB and 120mm trail bike will all have very different feels and reaches to capitalize on optimum performance. RAD calc puts Drew at 450.75 reach, which we've ridden on a medium sized test bike recently. And while it had some great traits to it, there were some more negatives too. The more info and options out there the better though as it gets people to step outside and think about what they truly want versus listening to message board bros telling folks that 2017 geometry sucks. haha. We suggest people take a bike they know well, examine what and where you loved it and what you think could be improved. See if any of those can be attributed to length and geo, and take a look at RAD, and try to demo bikes and you'll begin to deepen your database of what you like where and what you don't. Thanks for sharing!
That is the rule of thumb ball park RAD. Do not use it, ever. It doesn't take into effect leg length or arm length which is not a multiplier as every human is unique.
The goal for RAD is maximum arm extension downwards for maximum strength. Measure yourself, you only have to do it once. Hold some handlebars off a bike, feet placed as if you're on pedals 35cm apart, stand tall, shoulders back, push the bars down to your legs. Then touch the bars against a wall and measure the distance from ground to where your bars were. That's RAD.
@@janeblogs324yes you are correct. Myself and a few friends used multiplier to buy bikes online (no shops around us) it’s not as exact, but it does get you pretty close. I was prepared to do minor adjustments with stem length to get it exact once I got the bike using method you described, but didn’t end up needing anything as fit was perfect stock. Sounds like it’s not a good option for everyone though. I think it would be good for people to calculate and try to demo a few bikes around that reach number, especially the people in between sizes like myself just to see how it feels. Only way to really know. I will add I was between a couple bikes based on reach and went with the one with largest stack since I was sizing down. Could be reason for fitting so well also, idk.
@@jimmymoffitt5977 the other way to measure rad on bike is lay on your back, put bike on top of you, pedals on feet. Then you do the bunny hop position, putting your arms into your crotch with straight legs and back. If you can't push down or your bars are in your belly button etc you need +/-
Same boat - bought medium recently coming from mid 2014 era Large... Felt weird ordering a different size label but when you check the geo numbers modern day medium is the same as 2014 bike in Large.
Just came down from an XL to an L and it’s been feeling great. Maybe XL was more stable on straight down fast sections, but in every other condition, the L has been much more comfortable and agile 👌
I bought a used 2021 Orbea RISE in Large as my first eMTB and thought I could just fit a smaller stem and happy days. NOPE. I found the bike too difficult to get into tighter corners, I found myself missing the entry and running wide mid corner. Now the spec sheet for Orbea says 170 - 185 for the large and Im 175, so I figured I am not at the very bottom so should be ok. Conversely the MEDIUM Orbea Rise size chart says 163-175, so I figured Id be at the very top end of the medium. An Orbea seller/bike fitter who is 177cm tall says Medium every day of the week for him, so medium for me also. I'm now shopping for a used medium and will sell the large to try and recover my outlay. Fussy? No I dont think so. All else about the bike is great, it sips on the battery and 150/140 seems good @ 18.5kg its in that semi light eMTB range, I just felt underwhelmed about the tighter cornering and found myself scrambling on the pedals to make up ground i'd lose on corner entry. Great for fitness, not so great for fun. I also could not get the front up, a sure sign the bike is too long. I was the 'passenger' that people speak of. Lesson: challenge the size specs from the manufacturer before you spend a LOT on a bike.
Thank you for sharing your story and we hope you sell for a decent price and find a clean Medium! We’re huge believers in riding what’s best for you, and it sounds like you’ve found out that a more nimble, cornering machine is better than the “commenter engineers” choice of long low and slack. Haha. Have fun!
2024 here just spent 2 hours comparing models from the same brand between 2018 to 2025 I'm 6.0ft and I didn't learn much what were L measurements on a 2018 became spread all over from S to XL on the 6 values I checked from 2018->2024 seat tube L->XL top tube L->M/L head tube L->L reach L->M stack L->S wheelbase L->S manufacturer sizes aren't reliable the only thing you can be certain of is that they lowered the seat tube and increased wheelbase every year so much that a 2018 XL is actually shorter than a 2024 S >< and the stack increased so much old L are closer to 2024 S than M in other words bikes become bigger every year so don't rely on your 7-10y old size
example : my 2017 XC 27.5 120mm 20"L frame had 1125 wheelbase 460 reach which would today be a S wheelbase and a M reach this turned my world around I was about to buy a "2024 L" which is way bigger than what I currently ride
There was a time when a large frame felt short for me ( im 6 feet ) so i like the longer bikes but it’s getting to a point where it’s too much. Some large frames have 490 mm reach wich is insane . I just bought a Rocky Mountain blizzard fat bike and the reach is 475 and i put a 35 mm stem just because i felt to stretched out .
Great video BUT discussing bike sizing solely on reach without considering stack is not painting a clear picture. I know this won’t catch on, but we should really measure stack and reach from the end of the handlebars. Others have already mentioned RAD
Stack is definitely an important number to us as riders for sure! When we do our multi-bike shootouts, reach, chainstay, stack and BB are the key number we look at AFTER, we test to see why we're feeling certain things from different bikes. We find that while reach is far from the be-all end-all, it is more important than a lot of others. Steer tube spacers and bar height can always be changed, granted we could also say the same for stem lengths and bar sweeps, but feel those come with greater changes to handling than up and down changes do. Nevertheless, we will likely work on a RAD video in the future and appreciate people sharing their opinions of it.
Most riders are on bikes too big. The big problem is RUclipsrs and Forum groups giving terrible advice on sizing. It’s boils down to an ego thing. The Average male height would be fit to a size medium, yet the most sold bikes use large frames. Great vid. If you are in between, always size down. A larger bike will feel like a tank, be harder to muscle around and just overall slower and less fun. You’ll beat your buddies who are on the wrong size. Haha.
@@TheLoamWolf Yeah would be really nice. I’m from Germany and I always think… pounds… wait a minute… how many kilograms? 😅🙈 a text in the video should do it. 😉
Bike manufacturers are getting weird with reach and geo.. Sizing down is the way to go for most people in-between sizes or even on the low end spectrum of a size
Who's idea was it to compare geometry on 2 different slides instead of next to each other? Where are the rest of the numbers like top tube, seat tube, stack etc
The concept applies to all mountain bikes though… “modern” geometry isn’t just an ebike thing. Although using e-bikes here allowed us to get about triple the amount of test miles and trails covered for the testing process.
All the sheep followed the industry into the stupid sizing. Almost all bike sizing is up a size at this point. I blame reviewers like this for pushing this pissing contest and people are afraid to order smaller size bikes because they trust the manufactures for the sizing recommendations.
Only when people ignore all the non-ebike videos and leave comments saying so. The rest of the time we just review all sorts of rad bikes and gear for having fun on bikes.
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5’10 here. Always between medium and large. I used to buy the large based on others opinions but quickly found out after 2 different bikes that medium is the way to go. I don’t even try large anymore. I’m medium 100%
Me im 5'5 using 27.5 frame medium mullet set up
6 feet guy here.. I chose Giant Trance X in M over the L, and found myself more comfortable, better cornering and overall better feel on the bike. ALL DAY SIZE DOWN
Honestly, I think pivot just labeled the firebird & shuttle LT different than the industry standard. Sizing up or down has its pros and cons, but more importantly, knowing the reach # range that works for your body is what matters most. Knowing that # and looking at geo charts is an ideal way to find the size for you on a particular bike model. Every manufacturer does it differently. Now if your a height that fits smack dab in the middle of traditional sizes, the type of bike you're looking at may sway you to go up or down to achieve the feel that model was designed for etc
Great video and talking point👍
Good advice and great comparison!I went with a large as I like the stability and having the extra room to move your body around on is comfortable
Thanks for sharing. It very much is personal preference, however there are most definitely differences in performance and feel.
6’ here, I just got a Roscoe that I was going to get in L based on their sizing chart, but at the last second I decided to seek out a store that had a M/L even though it was further away and I’m really glad I did because it fits SO well.
The thought occurred to me because I tried my cousins bike which was a M (granted sizes aren’t really consistent among companies), but I found that while it was a little cramped, I felt a lot more nimble than on my Marlin and immediately maneuvers like bunnyhops became 10x easier than on my L Marlin.
I think my leg to arm ratio favors my legs or something. In my opinion I can always set the seat higher, but if the reach is off that’s tougher to fix. I think an L still would have worked, but I would have felt a little stretched out and less nimble than I do on the M/L.
Just goes to show we’re all built different and rider height is definitely not the end all be all when it comes to picking the right size.
I’m Also 5’11”. I appreciate this as I’ve also always ridden larges and probably wouldn’t have thought to size down
Right on thanks for sharing! We hope it helps others who are struggling with choices.
Me im 5'5 using 27.5 frame medium mullet set up
Great explanation of where each of the bikes are likely to excel. Also neat to have insight into what the team riders are choosing.
Glad it was helpful!
appreciate the low speed /high speed compression adjustment recs esp. Also during the pandemic, working in a lbs when people were all about getting BIGGER LONGER bikes I recoiled from the "flying squirrel" trend. Like. I wanna be able to maneuver but a lot of people just want to point and go, I guess.
I'm 5'9" so I'm right in between sizes frequently on normal pedal bikes. On an ebike I would have expect the bigger to be nicer and simple monster truck over more with the heavy bike. However the geometry on these bikes seems a little crazy. They're at least one size up (or more) from a normal trail bike so one size down looks pretty normal for an modern aggressive bike that's fairly long.
Me im 5'5 using 27.5 frame medium mullet set up
I’m 6’2” and always at the top end of Large and bottom end of XL. I usually size down, but this year I’ve decided to size up going with a 515 reach and I’ve been liking it so far 🤙🏻
It'll be interesting to see where you notice the biggest improvements and what (if any) downsides/tradeoffs you'll have. Obviously everyone rides different types of trails, so depending on your trails, you may not encounter the stuff where a long bike and losing that front tire will be an issue. Thanks for sharing!
Mate I'm the same size and would never get a bike over 505. Can you tell me what it is like to ride and what bike you got. I want the kenevo sl but the L is 485 and XL is 510. You think i should get the 510?
@@jordanmackay3568 i would size down and put a riser bar if needed.
Im 6’3 on a Range VLT XL with 505reach, the cockpit feels ok because of the steep seat tube angle but the bike wheelbase is simply to long for slow tech and tight corner. The inherent stability of an emtb makes me think that it’s probably better to size down , making it a better all-rounder.
I've recently switched from an old Large to a newer Medium (non Es) and thought I was loosing my mind because the new bike just felt small and nose-heavy even if set up with all the clicks an PSIs for my weight... so I was glad that this was mentioned in the vid
Solid video. I had the medium size Firebird n accepted that it was quite big for me & I'm 5'8 which by standards most riders would most likely get a medium on any brand bike. I got the new Firebird in size small & it's exactly what I needed.
Thank you very much! Appreciate it and thank you for sharing your experience.
Interesting to hear your input. I just had a similar situation with a 2022 Switchblade I purchased. The bike in this review is long by previous Pivot standards. The Switchblade has almost identical reach measurements but with the L and XL size rather than M vs. L. I'm 6' tall but have a +3" ape measurement. I bought a large originally (470mm reach) and found it to be a super fun bike but always felt like I was going to go over the bars when standing and attacking rocks gardens, etc. at higher speeds. The bike was quick and super snappy though. Just felt sketchy going fast (was running seat pushed back and 55mm stem). My local bike shop was awesome enough to order an XL for me and pretty much trade me frames. The XL (490mm reach) allowed me to center my seat on the rails and run a 45mm stem. Basically ended up with the same stack just a 20mm longer reach. My experience with the bigger bike is mixed. It is super stable now and fixed all of my "complaints" of the shorter bike but it's no longer "snappy" though corners and requires a decent amount more effort to hold into a corner. It's more difficult to weight the front appropriately, etc. where the smaller bike had all sorts of front end traction and would smoke a corner. The larger bike is also a handful in super technical uphill climbing due to the added wheelbase. I can keep the front down now on a steep climb, something that was difficult on the smaller frame. All said and done I'd probably stick with the large if I could do it all over. A longer reach puts more weight on my wrists as your mass isn't as centered. Think about it. Steeper seat angles and long reach numbers just bend you at the waist and lean you on your hands. A slacker seat tube and shorter reach balances your upper body weight better. I do Strava most of my rides just for record keeping mostly but have noticed that although the longer bike feels slower none of my rides have reflected that. It has more of an XC feeling position and is easier for me to climb on standing up and more confidence inspiring on the downhills so I guess even in the technical spots where it seems like more of a struggle I must be able to make up for it. Despite not feeling like it will rail a corner quite as well I've still set multiple PR's on it which means it's been faster than any bike I've owned recently. It's an interesting conundrum to say the least. Thanks for the great reviews. Enjoy them all!
Thank you very much for sharing your story and appreciate it.
Just gone the other way. For me a large feels subtly better than my previous medium, riding style, riding terrain, riding enjoyment, etc, etc, - excepted. I don't race BTW 😁. Each to their own. Ride what you feel most suits. Thanks for work in the vid.👍
Thanks for sharing!
At 6’4”, I found the Large was perfect even though the size chart puts me on XL. I experimented with volume spacers but found that bumping the travel to 180mm with the original number of spacers gave me the best experience. I also want to say that Chris was absolutely right. My Trail 429 is an XL and that fits me perfectly
I’m also 6’4 and I can’t imagine riding anything smaller than an xl. If anything I feel like a lot of XL bikes are a bit small. But I haven’t ridden the Pivot shuttle lt yet
I'm 6'1 and have always ridden an xL , but thinking of trying a large now
Better to slide the saddle forward and install a shorter stem on the larger size than to slide the saddle backward and install a longer stem on a smaller size. When in doubt, size up.
I'd love to try a Pivot shuttle.
To have the luxury of 2 sizes to run between to feel the differences is a wicked bonus !
(Though I'm bang in the middle of a Medium) !
5'10 and I got a medium Switchblade. Feels amazing.
Me im 5'5 using 27.5 frame medium mullet set up
Interestingly if you use the RAD system to find out reach and rider area you’ll typically find you’ll downsize although in some cases it might be an upsize but not very often.
More importantly excited to see this years ebike shootout and were the shuttle lands in the lineup . Wonder if it rides as good as it looks 🎉
Hi there, first of all thanks a lot for another great video.
I wanted to consult with you, i am looking forward to buy the 2023 orbea wild, now i am riding an orbea wild 2022 size large, and im wondering if the correct size for me with the new Wild is Medium or Large.
I took those bike for a demo ride and i think the medium fell more playfull while the large size feels more stable but belkier.
I saw your video about the new Wild 2023 and I wonder ifyou tried also the Medius size or just the large ? And what was your thoughts about it? You also 180 cm hight right?
Thanks a lot for any help with that.
I'm 5.10 and I am currently on a 436 reach....and I feel it is the maximum I will ever own, I'm even looking at a new frame in the 420-430 range.
I also have a 2018 levo with a 410 reach and it is just about the most comfortable and capable bikes I've ever owned.
I prefer to ride the frontend and let the rear drift, and I love tight tech trails and the comfort of a small bike in the air on jumps...it's just way way more fun than a huge plow-sled that these long reaches create. I also ride 27.5
I came up from BMX and dirt jump so I just prefer a smaller bike.
A big bike makes me feel like I'm half asleep and a passenger.
Also no one ever mentions that only 3 years ago the reach on a medium and sometimes a large is now considered a small.....Why would anyone size up when a bike today is 30-50mm longer than what was available in the same size just a couple years ago......this is what happens when people buy their children 29ers....soon everything will be 36" wheels and a 700mm reach in a medium.
I have spent 2 years riding bigger bike. Im 175 cm the bike was with 470 reach, then I switched to a medium bike with 450 reach... it was so much more fun to ride. the bikes we radon swoop carbon (the bigger bike) and gt force.
The reason I went with the bigger initially was that I wanted more stability and room, but after I have switched I came to conclusion that I'm a lot faster on medium just for the reason that I was easier to turn therefore I have more flow on the trails. Tbh I don't feel less stable on the straighter sections either. The down side of the bigger bike was that I need more effort to make it go where I wanted.
I’m all about sizing down. My local bike shop tried to talk me out of my small Rocky Mountain Altitude because the trend is to go bigger. At 5’8” 175, the small is much more lively and fun. Fits like a glove.
Awesome to hear you made the right call for you. Thanks for sharing b
Also, my 2021 small is exactly the size of my 2013 medium. Bikes have gotten bigger. Side by side comparison. I actually went home and brought my old bike to the shop before the purchase to convince them 😂
Haha that’s awesome.
Hey Mr Wolf, in your case would you ride a medium in specialized turbo levo geometry even though you're right at the max height or would you do a large? Asking because I'm in your same shoes, thought the medium is best but every person I talked to is telling me I should do a large. I'm also 5"11 which is the max height for S3 (medium)
Hey thanks for watching. at 5'11 i really like the S4 size on my Turbo Levo. I wouldn't pick another size on that bike for my preference.
5'9" and purchased a L as a novice. Handled well, but seat tube was too long -- okay in the store, but not the trail. All subsequent bike purchases have been M: more responsive, less weight. Important since I ride gnarly, knurly, undulating trails and not smooth downhills. Recently went from 27.5 to 29 with a similar experience: does seem to glide over obstacles better, but feels a bit sluggish in tight turns.
Me im 5'5 using 27.5 frame medium mullet set up
Did the same thing sizing down with my commencal meta power sx after owning an s4 kenevo. I find at higher speed the bigger bike obviously is more stable but definitely was no where near as fun. Can throw the medium around almost like a normal mtb. Im 5’11 also
Awesome to hear and thanks for sharing! Definitely sounds like more riders are choosing to size down.
I'm 6'0" and had a demo day in the fall with this bike. I went with the Large, even though I have a short torso and typically ride a medium bike. I didn't have any issue with the bike, but the spec they loaned me was top to the line, and my daily driver is more middle of the road. So I was more impressed with the fork and shock of the bike. If I were going to purchase one, I would spend time on the Medium to see if I can feel the difference. Thanks, Drew and company for the review. Would the same consideration be needed for the Shuttle SL?
Yeah we’d say so. reach is an important dimension to consider when evaluating your desired feel.
I had a 2019 L instinct and I'm almost 6'3 and it always felt like i was cramped and never felt fully comfortable, and I felt like I was on top of the bike and not in it if you know what i mean. I traded that in this week for a XL Altitude. Depending on arm, leg and torso length plays a huge factor in what bike you should buy.
My comfort & enjoyment on a bike will always be more important than my ego.
Too many riders get hung up on the letter (M, L, XL, etc) on the frame than what the measurements of the frame actually are. Just because someone has historically ridden a Large doesn't necessarily mean that they would feel right on some modern Large framed bikes.
That's why I currently ride a 2022 Pivot Switchblade in size Medium & I'm 5'11". And I'm having the most fun I've ever had on a bike.
Great video! Do you happen to know what you guys prefer between Medium and Large with Canyon Spectral ON? I'm about 5'10+ and can't decide based on looking at them on paper.
I'm in the same situation today. Being 182 cm with 89 inseam canyon puts me on an M. I guess it will be OK. L will probably feel a tad big/monstertruck for my height.
@@djgenadeloos5893 I'm 180cm and got a Spectral 27.5 in medium - for me a reach of 460 was perfect, it matched the same reach as my previous bike. Lots of online talk is to go for a large in that height range but I'm happy I went medium... as evidenced in the video above.
@@MegaHorseteeth i also went with the M now, feels like its spot on and i was overthinking it :p! Can't wait to go ride it this weekend...
VanCan brought me to the realization that I care way more about a fun bike than one which is optimal for racing. I'm not a speed demon, nor do I race competitively - I'm just out to have fun. Smaller bikes end up being way more playful, and I'm even back in the 27.5" world these days =D
Thanks for this comparison, folks
Thanks for sharing and stoked to hear you’re all about fun too!
What did you end up doing on the specialized levo Pro? Did you size down on that also, or did you stick with a large?
I'm riding an S4 on that bike as it puts me right in my 475mm happy place.
@@TheLoamWolf same here, but I shorten the stem to a 35 from the 50 it comes with. I guess since specialized has six sizes, maybe it's a medium-large.
I’m right at 6’2 perhaps slightly under. I feel like I’ve been on too big of bikes buying XL and it wasn’t until my third bike did I realize what I’d done smh
The blue is breathtaking
There has been a lot of discussion on sizing, especially regarding reach/stack, such as the R.A.D. concept. I'm looking hard at a Shuttle SL, as a 5'8" rider who is primarily interested in climb and maneuverability characteristics. I'm seriously considering a small.
Bingo! Have you looked at the RAD sizing method? I find it interesting, and ride a RAD+ and sometimes a RAD++ size
Yeah not a bad call considering what you’re looking for
IMO, flat RAD is the way to go for trail/enduro, and RAD+ for park DH. The biggest problem is most dudes lie about their height. Look at what is printed on your driver license, and start calculating… you will quickly notice that all bike charts are way off (too big). Im 173cm (5’7 1/2”), and I went from large to small frame, and my riding sky rocketed! 🚀
Yeah I will forever shoot for as close to RAD neutral as I can find stock, minor adjustment from there can be made by simply changing stem to your liking. Used RAD on my Ripmo sizing and made riding sooo much more fun. Stability and confidence is still there even though sized down. works great for me
@@bikedude019 It's so easy to measure your RAD size. all it takes is a piece of string: stand on it and hold the other end in your hand.
Yo!
What reach would be ideal for a 5'7" (170cm) rider?
I like the design of the mondraker Raze R size S but it has a 450mm reach and that looks huge judging by the formula: height in cm x 2.5 which would result in a 425 reach.
Hard to find a bike at this height. 🥲
I ran into this issue when going with a large Sentinel in 2019. For anything that was wide open it felt like a rocket ship. When trails got tighter it was a little cumbersome and while climbing tech it was a boat for me. Switched to a 2021 SJ Evo and opted for the S3. I feel like I haven't given up too much on the descent and the bike climbs much better. I think the Sentinel was 475mm and the SJ Evo is 448mm. Maybe the sweet spot would be around 460mm for me but I haven't tried it yet.
Nice info thanks for sharing!
What is your height?
I was 5’10” but shrunk to 5’9”. In both cases, at the time, Medium frames (430ish reach) were def easier to man-handle. After a rough enduro race though I was pretty firmly in the “my next bike is a large” camp. Mainly for extra stability in chonk. But after demoing large frames I felt noticeable differences in handling, I was more of a passenger. Since then, modern mediums (450+ reach) along with slacker HTA and longer chainstays, have made Meds more capable where large frames are better suited. And they still retain a more lively ride everywhere else (very important in New England!). I’m so glad I stuck with medium frames, instead of living a lie on a large frame and hating riding.
Yeah in terms of reach. The bike companies have kind of sized up for you. With 430mm being firmly in the "small" range with the average mediums being 450~460mm.
@@Accuracy158 Yea, Medium is definitely the new Large!
I agree with this. My only complaint is that the steeper seat tube angles has made the effective top tube length shorter (while the reach has got longer). So although the mediums feel more roomy standing up, they feel more cramped sitting down. Can’t win!!
I would love to see the same video with the Trek EXe. I’m 5’9” and went with a medium. I love it. But, I do wonder what a large would feel like.
R.A.D. is the key and the correct reach for your body is what to aim at to pick up your right bike size. Once the frame is too big for you, there is no space for correction.
I’m 5’8” so for me the question is s or m. I’m going small and if need be get a longer stem (65mm) Thanks for great content
Same. Although I've seen companies not even making an S frame anymore.
Thanks for the feedback b
super helpful test/analysis TLW!
Glad it was helpful!
I have always felt in between sizes at 5'9" and always have sized up. Kinda wish i had seen this earlier. Riding an Orbea Rise L. it feels good but wonder if I would have more "fun" on a medium. After watching this....
Thanks for sharing... We hope this video helps people in your exact situation.
Any chance @loamwolf will get the new Transition Relay? How does it compare to some of the other light eMTBs or some of the full power with 160/170 travel beasts?
We're gonna try, in talks with Transition right now.
In the end, they are just letters.
Check the geo and pick the right for you based on the actual numbers.
That is the conclusion for sure! Haha
Longer is more stable, expert riders don’t need massive stability and can trade some stability for agility.
Excellent! Agreed on all points. Put FUN first!! Go smaller sizing imo
Excellent! Agreed.
Very good vid man, alot of people want to know, this explains it
Thank you very much. Appreciate it and we hope it helps some people out there for sure! That's the goal.
@@TheLoamWolf I've been a fan of yours a long time bro, keeper rolling
Not a fan of small bikes- I prefer the stability at speed. Im old and have a limited number of crashes left in me, so I like the safety net a bigger bike provides. And if you keep their speed up and lean in flat turns properly they can be pretty quick still in tighter trails. Yeah I can’t do DJ parks as well, but that is such a minuscule part of my riding I don’t care. If I ever get back into riding them more regularly I’ll just go buy a single speed 24 or 26 in bmx for like $500.
I used to actually size up but, for me, larges these days are usually where I want them so I just stick to my recommended size.
Just bought an Ibis Oso in Large. Has a 500 mm reach and a 1300 mm wheelbase and still ripped the tight singletrack and jumps like an absolute dream. Doesn’t feel like a big bike at all. I have ridden some bikes with these numbers that felt huge. So I think it also depends on the bike itself, especially STA/ eff TTL, front center to rear center balance and, most importantly, the bike’s kinematics.
how tall are you guys? Seems to be an important piece of information.
Drew is 5’11. It was in the video @158 and some other spots but next time we’ll create a graphic similar to the bike geo data. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@TheLoamWolf Thanks! I was scanning through the video a few times to find it when it was done but couldn't find it. I have ordered a fuel exe i L and I am 6ft, but their recommendations are so far from M that I didn't even really consider it even though the reach is farther than what I usually like but M is smaller than what I usually like. Important video, I think the iindustry has gone way to far in recommending too large bikes (especially ebikes).
I usually go for the longer bike. I put shorter stems on, so I still have longer wheelbase, but shorter reach. My ebikes, I go for mullets, my spec enduro is full 29er.
Would a large in a mullet setup feel like a medium with 29’s?
For some reason, this company has decided to basically make a size large and call it a medium. My S4 (large)Turbo Levo is just 9 mm longer in reach, with a 3mm shorter wheelbase (1254mm) in standard geo config. I would def choose the size med in this bike as well.
It's not just Pivot that has some interesting sizing choices, quite a few companies have gone the extreme route.
those chainstays are short! too short for L and XL imo. i love ebikes with long-ish (-/+ 450mm) cs so you can climb super steep stuff. i think the medium fits the cs and reach well, and get why the L would feel off; too much rear tire weight with short rear end.
For those unfamiliar with the R.A.D multiplier it’s your height in centimeters X 2.5 = reach.
2.45 for RAD negative
2.55 for RAD plus
Be curious if the guys involved in this test could check out the math to see how accurate that multiplier is? Cool video and topic!
Thanks Jimmy, while we're very interested in RAD, we kinda think it may put bikes a little below our "desired" reach. For example, Drew at 5'11 LOVES 475-480mm reach on ebikes. On pedal bikes 480-485 seems to be a solid spot, but can have a good time, with some sacrifices in super steeps at 475. This begins to show that one static measuring system isn't ideal because different applications or bikes, require different fits. A DH bike, eMTB and 120mm trail bike will all have very different feels and reaches to capitalize on optimum performance.
RAD calc puts Drew at 450.75 reach, which we've ridden on a medium sized test bike recently. And while it had some great traits to it, there were some more negatives too.
The more info and options out there the better though as it gets people to step outside and think about what they truly want versus listening to message board bros telling folks that 2017 geometry sucks. haha.
We suggest people take a bike they know well, examine what and where you loved it and what you think could be improved. See if any of those can be attributed to length and geo, and take a look at RAD, and try to demo bikes and you'll begin to deepen your database of what you like where and what you don't.
Thanks for sharing!
That is the rule of thumb ball park RAD. Do not use it, ever. It doesn't take into effect leg length or arm length which is not a multiplier as every human is unique.
The goal for RAD is maximum arm extension downwards for maximum strength. Measure yourself, you only have to do it once. Hold some handlebars off a bike, feet placed as if you're on pedals 35cm apart, stand tall, shoulders back, push the bars down to your legs. Then touch the bars against a wall and measure the distance from ground to where your bars were. That's RAD.
@@janeblogs324yes you are correct. Myself and a few friends used multiplier to buy bikes online (no shops around us) it’s not as exact, but it does get you pretty close. I was prepared to do minor adjustments with stem length to get it exact once I got the bike using method you described, but didn’t end up needing anything as fit was perfect stock.
Sounds like it’s not a good option for everyone though. I think it would be good for people to calculate and try to demo a few bikes around that reach number, especially the people in between sizes like myself just to see how it feels. Only way to really know. I will add I was between a couple bikes based on reach and went with the one with largest stack since I was sizing down. Could be reason for fitting so well also, idk.
@@jimmymoffitt5977 the other way to measure rad on bike is lay on your back, put bike on top of you, pedals on feet. Then you do the bunny hop position, putting your arms into your crotch with straight legs and back. If you can't push down or your bars are in your belly button etc you need +/-
At 5’11” I’m finding most new emtbs in size medium fit the geo numbers I’m used to and like with my current large trek rail.
Same boat - bought medium recently coming from mid 2014 era Large... Felt weird ordering a different size label but when you check the geo numbers modern day medium is the same as 2014 bike in Large.
Just came down from an XL to an L and it’s been feeling great. Maybe XL was more stable on straight down fast sections, but in every other condition, the L has been much more comfortable and agile 👌
That’s awesome to hear.
@@TheLoamWolf thanks to your eye opening video! Great content as usual!
Thank you very much! We're always glad to get feedback and love when people get stoked on the trails. Happy we could help in any way.
I bought a used 2021 Orbea RISE in Large as my first eMTB and thought I could just fit a smaller stem and happy days. NOPE. I found the bike too difficult to get into tighter corners, I found myself missing the entry and running wide mid corner. Now the spec sheet for Orbea says 170 - 185 for the large and Im 175, so I figured I am not at the very bottom so should be ok. Conversely the MEDIUM Orbea Rise size chart says 163-175, so I figured Id be at the very top end of the medium. An Orbea seller/bike fitter who is 177cm tall says Medium every day of the week for him, so medium for me also. I'm now shopping for a used medium and will sell the large to try and recover my outlay.
Fussy? No I dont think so. All else about the bike is great, it sips on the battery and 150/140 seems good @ 18.5kg its in that semi light eMTB range, I just felt underwhelmed about the tighter cornering and found myself scrambling on the pedals to make up ground i'd lose on corner entry. Great for fitness, not so great for fun. I also could not get the front up, a sure sign the bike is too long. I was the 'passenger' that people speak of.
Lesson: challenge the size specs from the manufacturer before you spend a LOT on a bike.
Thank you for sharing your story and we hope you sell for a decent price and find a clean Medium! We’re huge believers in riding what’s best for you, and it sounds like you’ve found out that a more nimble, cornering machine is better than the “commenter engineers” choice of long low and slack. Haha. Have fun!
2024 here just spent 2 hours comparing models from the same brand between 2018 to 2025 I'm 6.0ft and I didn't learn much what were L measurements on a 2018 became spread all over from S to XL on the 6 values I checked from 2018->2024 seat tube L->XL top tube L->M/L head tube L->L reach L->M stack L->S wheelbase L->S manufacturer sizes aren't reliable the only thing you can be certain of is that they lowered the seat tube and increased wheelbase every year so much that a 2018 XL is actually shorter than a 2024 S >< and the stack increased so much old L are closer to 2024 S than M in other words bikes become bigger every year so don't rely on your 7-10y old size
example : my 2017 XC 27.5 120mm 20"L frame had 1125 wheelbase 460 reach which would today be a S wheelbase and a M reach this turned my world around I was about to buy a "2024 L" which is way bigger than what I currently ride
Most larges don't have a 488 reach, most 470-480. So it's more about the reach number than the arbitrary size "large"
Didn’t GMBN just do a video like this, this morning?
We have not seen it but we’ll have to take a look and see! Seems to be a popular topic if so.
There was a time when a large frame felt short for me ( im 6 feet ) so i like the longer bikes but it’s getting to a point where it’s too much. Some large frames have 490 mm reach wich is insane . I just bought a Rocky Mountain blizzard fat bike and the reach is 475 and i put a 35 mm stem just because i felt to stretched out .
Thing have changed for sure!
Seems like it's a pattern in modern geometries to size down for better control and agility.
Great video BUT discussing bike sizing solely on reach without considering stack is not painting a clear picture. I know this won’t catch on, but we should really measure stack and reach from the end of the handlebars. Others have already mentioned RAD
Stack is definitely an important number to us as riders for sure! When we do our multi-bike shootouts, reach, chainstay, stack and BB are the key number we look at AFTER, we test to see why we're feeling certain things from different bikes. We find that while reach is far from the be-all end-all, it is more important than a lot of others. Steer tube spacers and bar height can always be changed, granted we could also say the same for stem lengths and bar sweeps, but feel those come with greater changes to handling than up and down changes do. Nevertheless, we will likely work on a RAD video in the future and appreciate people sharing their opinions of it.
@@TheLoamWolf I appreciate the response. Looking forward to the video on RAD.
Man, the difference in size medium and large is huge. The large is visibly larger.
Yes it is. And it feels way longer too!
1st 🥇and another great review
Thanks very much
I’m glad I got the notifications set to all lol 😂
Haha so are we!
I'm 6.2 and riding mach 5.5 L, don't feel any discomfort
Most riders are on bikes too big. The big problem is RUclipsrs and Forum groups giving terrible advice on sizing. It’s boils down to an ego thing. The Average male height would be fit to a size medium, yet the most sold bikes use large frames.
Great vid. If you are in between, always size down. A larger bike will feel like a tank, be harder to muscle around and just overall slower and less fun. You’ll beat your buddies who are on the wrong size. Haha.
Cool Video! Maybe you could add the metric system in addition. Thanks in advance. 😅👍🏻
Gosh we really need to start converting our heights to metric don’t we! Haha.
@@TheLoamWolf Yeah would be really nice. I’m from Germany and I always think… pounds… wait a minute… how many kilograms? 😅🙈 a text in the video should do it. 😉
Bike manufacturers are getting weird with reach and geo.. Sizing down is the way to go for most people in-between sizes or even on the low end spectrum of a size
Down ! it gives you a,lower center of gravity.
i get better balance and control by sizing down .
for example, our size fits size M but try to ride size S and L. what is the difference between them?
have you try this experiment?🙏
Who's idea was it to compare geometry on 2 different slides instead of next to each other? Where are the rest of the numbers like top tube, seat tube, stack etc
Even in size S it long low and slack, and stable
Never understood the latest fad of upsizing…
Funny thing is that the pivot Medium is in fact a Large 😂😂😂
TLDW: It's personal preference. Results are basically the same.
That is a BIG large.
Can y’all pls do a separate channel for the e-bike stuff?
The concept applies to all mountain bikes though… “modern” geometry isn’t just an ebike thing.
Although using e-bikes here allowed us to get about triple the amount of test miles and trails covered for the testing process.
:)
Thanks
Why are you wearing a helmet?????😮
M size of this brand is like XL on another....very sticky comparison.
Their Pros are riding the smaller bike, M in this case. The question is why are you comparing yourself with the Pro riders ? No ofense , honestly :)
Honestly your a complete butthead Paul he wasn’t comparing himself to pro riders just referencing what they chose to ride. .
@@jroase1658 thank you very much :))
the size that fits you period, who cares what the bike trends are why is there a struggle? never has been for me doesnt fit dont buy period
The elephant in the room is wing span, long legs v long arms v long arms v long legs. Buy more than one bike, this is not rocket science
All the sheep followed the industry into the stupid sizing. Almost all bike sizing is up a size at this point. I blame reviewers like this for pushing this pissing contest and people are afraid to order smaller size bikes because they trust the manufactures for the sizing recommendations.
Did you even watch the video? 😆
The reach on my '15 medium Escarpe is 425mm and that feels prob perfect,I'm 6ft. I dont get why you want to feel super stretched out
So this is just an E bike channel now?
Only when people ignore all the non-ebike videos and leave comments saying so. The rest of the time we just review all sorts of rad bikes and gear for having fun on bikes.
Had a quick look, 8 of their last 48 videos uploaded featured emtbs. Hope that answers your burning question. 👍🏻