How NOT to human test your homemade gear
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Thanks Andrew for doing science for us. See his full video here • I made a cam
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I'm an arborist and I love your content. Very reassuring with certain systems
The video doesn't show it that well because they were deeper in the crack but there were actually 3 cams backing me up for those falls, but jumping off was still scary
That was pretty cool to watch
@@gi70st I'm not a climber and I sure enjoyed the show. Thanks Andrew and Ryan.
Yeah I feel he was a but unfair on you in his assessment. You did a great job safely testing your build. Bravo
Really cool stuff, and entertaining.
You did a decent job designing it. The only issue I have with it is the design doesn't have any tolerance for quality control. You splice it wrong or get a bad axle pin, done-zo.
Use a quality steel pin and steel wire cable with known specs, at least cuts down some of the unknowns
Good prototype, keep going, I want to see it evolve.
Thanks for testing this! I definitely had fun building it.
Mad respect to you for giving it a go
I subbed. Make some more stuff.
The video seemed pretty dismissive of the accomplishment but making your own cam, and then testing it yourself is badass. It didn't quite measure up to professionals but it wasn't supposed to, and it still worked good enough
This gentleman gives off tech priest Rasputin vibes.
Honestly, even though I wouldn't want to climb on that homemade cam, I REALLY respect him for having the guts to make it, and I respect it even more that he was willing to send it out for destructive testing. As easy as it is to dismiss the device because of it's flaws, we also should pay a lot of respect to Makers who aren't afraid to just try stuff out.
2:05 his rope gets clipped in the carabiner of the backup
That’s scary. If the top cam fails, you might just slip through.
Probably would slip through. Haha damn sketch
@@LogRobin I'm pretty sure that if the back up cam failed it would be before the rope clips in right ? and if it does fail then the rope would probably not clip in
I am assuming he probably assumed pure shear force in the napkin math, but did not calculate bending strength. With all of the space between lobes, the soft aluminum material without a hardened bushing, and it being a slip fit for motion, you need to factor in bending strength which is much lower than pure shear. Without having bushings between each lobe and a bolted ridged joint, you are never going to eliminate bending failure, which is reflected in all of the retail parts failing in the same way.
@@Gothmog222 It is a hardened pin, the the failure will always be a break, not an actual bend. It was still loaded with a bending force that caused the failure.
I don’t have cams or know the materials for sure, but my guess is that he used aluminum for the pin while manufacturers probably use steel. Steel tends to bend close to failure while aluminum will just break/sheer without bending much. For a weight bearing pin like this, and the fact that bending can still protect instead of completely failing, it would make sense to use steel instead. But this is all a guess on my part, and I could be completely wrong
@@AceRanger20 Doesn't look like aluminum, most likely steel. Problem is there are a 1000 kinds of steel, some orders of magnitude better at certain applications than others.
@@DmitriyLaktyushkinyou have a point, and I forgot that you can harden steel too much and it becomes brittle. So that is a possibility, he used steel and it was hardened too much for the application
Makes me wonder if a set of (asymmetric?) _mechanical_ bosses -between- near to the ends of the cams would limit the bending, or if deformation is necessary for maintaining -optimal- a safe degree of slip-creep traction (creep-slip adhesion?) without the face of the cam shearing/smearing off.
It may also make placement/removal more difficult when the bosses deform or collect debris, but that can be mitigated.
This has been a peak internet experience. Amazing.
So Napkin engineer here, that looks like the pin sheared. This could be poor choice in materials (IE I wanted the harder metal because more number vs picking a softer springier material that can handle normal deformation), or that bar was probably cold rolled and has s defect in it. I am probably sure that most highly rated climbing gear companies use binned material, or they are doing their own analysis on the metals to make sure those defects are not present. Very cool though to see the DIY community breaking into spaces!
I had a similar thought. The metal selection for the pin was not ductile enough to elongate before failure. Instead it just failed.
Very nice example of why material choice really matters
I love when I see people make their own gear. I'm amazed he made something that could have been potentially used in a practical way even if never intended to use it in practice. It a great feeling to see something you made actually useable. I've made some of my own hiking and climbing gear and love when it ends up working out.
I thought for sure you would have broken the dyneema thumb loop after to see what force it could handle on it's own.
I mean basically all climbing gear originated in people's garages. This is probably better than Ray Jardine's original "friends" were
I'm pretty equally impressed by how well the cam performed, and the balls of the climber taking whips on it
It looks like he had two pieces as backup to me.
The heat treat on that axle is what got him in the end, it was too hard to give at all. Pretty cool though tbh
He had a cam less then a foot bellow hos homemade cam, then, if you zoom in, it looks like at least 2 more pieces under the overhang. Also, *that has to go on your wall!* Please?!?!? 🥺
Good job Andrew!!
Respect. He risked his own neck to test it and it was relatively strong for a diy product.
That's awesome he sent it to you.. good stuff
Remember: stay safe
This is so nostalgic.
It reminded me of the time my late uncle decided to make a homemade parachute ........
He died of cancer right?
I’m curious to know more about why the thumb loop didn’t keep slipping. Great job Andrew for taking some big falls on his home made gear!
Great video. I would love to see more small businesses like this making climbing gear!
BD using Dyneema makes ultralight Camalot a disposable piece of gear after five years? I guess climbers have money to burn these days. Maybe they figure most climbers are former climbers after five years, ha ha.
9.8 kN is super good enough!!!
😂 Still scary though!
I for one dig this. Ya its crazy dangerous but personally, i think alot of the rock climbing community has lost touch with the heart and soul of climbing. Its suppose to be dangerous and scary. Its suppose to interrupt the safe little bubble that we all live in because of the modern world. Climbing has always been, at its core, about total commitment. People may look at this guy and say he is being irresponsible but, really, rock climbing doesnt make alot of sense to begin with if you sit down and think about. And also, where do you think people like Chouinard or Royal got there start? They use to cut apart old cast iron bed frames they found at the dump and forge pitons out of them. Im sure plenty of people called them crazy
Once you've decided it's okay to have a safety line to save your life if you fall, I don't think there's any reason to half-ass it.
so glad this was not a video of a guy getting seriously hurt, between the title, the premise, and the intro, once the guys test fall video started i was getting VERY uneasy
@4:40 he mentions the BD Knockoff, Grandwall, where was this break tested?
All these broken cams put together might make for an interesting "flower" bouqet :D
😂😂😂😂
Your uncomfortable voice at the end
😂😂
Looks like the pin material was too brittle and broke instead of bending.
My guess he did some hardening in the axle metal, the another one bent cause it's not hardened.
This is exactly what I thought. The axle was hardened, while shouldn't be. It is better when it bends and not shears or cracks.
I would assume 3D printed parts, especially fdm, would be the first to fail. Interesting that it wasn’t quite that
He had the wrong metal in the Axel.. Must have a softer casting of it.
9 kn is better than most wire on most cams
Love that Ryan but that guys mad, but after all that how Friends can about in the first place with Ray Jardine making them himself for Half Dome. If I remember right!
This looks like a way to get a Darwin Award. Your life is precious. Protect it. Best-
Best Break Test of 2024 the DIY cam
Haha cool stuff. I definitely would have wanted very bomber backup lol.
There’s 2 backups
You don't understand gear totally, until you try to make it. Kudos.
Haha I thought this was about a guy who grew and ate his own magic mushrooms!!!
This is the most Boulder thing ever
The commercial shafts are intentionally tempered so they bend rather than snap(my guess). Well done on your homemade gear!
In early days of climbing, a lotta’ folks were creative . Working in garages & shops. But a cliff test , without back-up ?
Yikes.
He was backed up with 3 pieces. It's obvious in the video.
Team up with the Slo-mo Guys for a video! It would be rad to watch metal tear crystal by crystal
The real question is how long till these are available in the store?? Asking for a friend.
How was the grand wall cam you showed? I can’t find a video of you testing it?
I can appreciate him wanting to experiment with homemade cam but the way he did it. There are other ways he could've tested it like a pulley system or weights. And yet he chose to put his body and life on the line.
All the weight is on the middle?
I appreciate this video, and I appreciate this channel being the only climbing channel on the internet right now not trying to sell me MagDust or whatever Rungne shit.
Oh no, god forbid climbing content creators get sponsored by products (chalk and clothes) which climbers would be buying anyways!
@@theKashConnoisseur Can you even be a real climber if you don't spend $20+ on chalk, $60 on a T-shirt or $160 on pants?
@@Aaron-xq6hv pro tip: climb pantless and put the $160 towards another pair of climbing shoes.
I mean, Rungne is a small business from an ex-pro climber that recently started up. Makes sense they’d want to get their name out there as much as they can, small businesses are also more expensive than massive businesses due to savings-by-scale.
@@theKashConnoisseur I only climb in the Barefoot Charles style.
Guy's got $1,000s of equipment to make cams that costs $100 tops to buy.
1000s of dollars in equipment to make whatever he wants.
@@vincentgizdich2842 true
the axle wont fail in shear it will fail in bending
At least he is well aware it's a horrible idea and won't be making more and said so publicly. Because someone will have seen it and gone "i could make that"
It did better than expected honestly
nothing at all horrible about it. with just a few tweaks he would have some very usable cams.....although how he got to $120 in materials i have no idea. i dont see more than maybe $6 there. and starting off with alum plate of the correct thickness would save a bunch of material and machining time
@@ztungazhe said in his long video that all the materials he bought to make the cam including spares was $120, but the cam itself was $30 of materials
Good video, but for those not in the know, what does the 9.x signify? What does that compare to?
The 9.x is Kilonewtons (kN) IE ~224 lbf ~101 kgf. For reference a "whipper" is less than 4 kN, and the fully rated cam that he "compared" it to is rated to 12 kN. That's not to say that I would use it as he said that the materials cost more for the homemade version and there can/ would be quality control issues for such one-off/ homemade products.
Props to the guy for taking a real whipper on the thing.
Would have been perfectly fine and safe with a proper backup. The way he did it … kind of stupid honestly.
Coming soon to a statistic near you...
the volume is all over the place. put some effort in
STL?
ha ha - the guy has a set...
Stitch those splices (after setting) if repeatedly loading and unloading..
There is no pure shear in those axles, "standardised" break testing beats theory at the limits.
He didn't make anything the machines made it for him
who ran the machines tho
I got serious pucker watching him whip with only 1 backup. 😲
It kinda worked though.
Nightmare fuel
Pretty cool….
But please don’t do this again.
(Human testing)
Might not be up to par compared to the commercial offerings, but it was still impressive.
I like that you leave Nebula to the end because you lose me with two words, "Legal Eagle". He in no way rates inclusion beside you.
I think the axle is always the weakest point.
A little pencil rod of metal is not over 10kn of force resistant. A dyneena sling is. Those aluminum lemons wedges are.
So for anyone who’s making a real trad gear, remember that overkill won’t kill you, and make thick redundant stuff. If it’s going to be sketchy, might as well be overkill too
As a guy who knows nothing about climbing but has done plenty of fall arest training and working at heights in my field of work. Can anyone explain why the fall arest equipment I am required to use appears to be so much more heavy duty than the the equipment you guys use? Any why we are trained that if we used anything less it would result in certain death. I suspect it's just to cover the company's ass.
You definitely just answered you own question. And different use cases call for different applications and standards. Good point though and I’m still pondering further
Quality+
Me and a guy in Moab make base parachutes. It's not sketchy so long as you know what you're doing
It says 7 kN on one of my bd cams. That's scary
that's like a 2:1 safety ratio anyway. Yer not gonna break it. It might pop due to bad placement though.
Would and should cast the cam lobes.
To save metal? Why casting?
@@stripey4591 Its a far less expensive process than CNC and printing
This could have been a very different video about Andrew. Thankfully it was not.
I'm getting "fatal accident testing something or doing something sketchy in 1 to 72 months" vibes off Andrew.... I hope I'm wrong...
Algorithm comment
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Why is he being such a %($#?
Potential Darwin Award.
this guy gives me big tony hinchcliffe vibes
This seems like a good explanation for why gear, particularly safety gear, can get so expensive.
I would not use his cost per part to validate that claim. His price has more to do with economies of scale than anything else. Obviously there are design costs, testing costs, and certification costs that factor into prices that he did not "pay for", but those are non re-occurring costs that are factored into an estimated sales volume to determine a price target. His costs were higher because he paid a premium on materials for convenience.
You don't want to force the manufacturer to skimp on safety testing in order to get the price down. That's the primary reason for the costs being high, material cost isn't the primary driver of cost.
@@Bubu567 I guess that means that it could be cheap. Like really cheap. If someone decides that the research has been paid off and start selling them for staff + material costs. BD going bankrupt and gets bought by a non profit or something.