I am an 82 year old male, diagnosed with Dexa scan in 2009. Did not take med but alkalized my diet, took Vitamin D and especially K2 MK7 ( it is this K2 MK7 that puts the calcium back into the bones D3 without K2 is pointless ). Over the following 2 years had another test and moved out of range and then two years later was about correct for my age. This is big business for the drug companies !! Diet and weight baring exercise is really important not drugs.
I am 64, was diagnosed with osteopenia 4 years ago following 2 fractures. I was prescribed Adcal (calcium and vitamin D). My follow up Dexa a month ago showed my condition has worsened. Yet I was advised to continue with Adcal. Alendronic acid tablets were also prescribed initially but caused severe discomfort and reduced flexibility in my joints after only a few weeks. I walk regularly, eat a well balanced diet so I'm struggling to know what else to do other than maybe weightbearing exercises.
@@DianneCoffeytake estradiol immediately! Out sex hormones keep our bones strong. Estradiol for women and testosterone for men. Men do t have the sudden cessation of estrogen that women do at menopause so they don’t lose bone quickly at 55. Eunuchs develop osteoporosis quickly. Eunuchs are castrated men. Men were castrated as slaves for the harem or for the opera. Go to your gynecologist and say that you have horrible life disrupting hot flashes and get on Hormone Replacement Therapy. It stops osteoporosis from progressing. It won’t replace what you’ve lost. Fosamax and such adds to bone density but not in the honeycomb structure that makes it strong. Of cou
The pharma companies making these make huge profits over prescribing esp in India where most of these drugs are made is big business!! My father aged 86 self medicates he did have a fracture and a knee replacement op.I think no scans or anything but has worked ie moved hard all his life still drives a manual car so is using his body parts dally I sense that for him is a big factor to his comparatively fitter lifestyle compared to his siblings abroad. He does no weight bearing exercises though perhaps he should he’s mistaken for 20 years younger at hospital appointments often they don’t believe his death of birth.
@@DianneCoffeywhen you take vitamin D3: make sure you are getting a high enough dose and also make sure to take vitamin k2 (the mk7 form) with it. (It is available to buy in this combination from many shops (Boots, Holland and Barrett etc)
i'm an 73 year old male and go to dance on Techno, House and Disco music during one, and sometimes two, nights per week in a dancing with all young people. I don't use drugs or alcohol and drink only water. I dance sometimes 3 to 4 hours intensively. Few weeks ago I stumbled in a street, and beside some minor cuts of the skin of some fingers, I had no other wounds. (As far as my diet, I am a pescotarian = vegetarian who eats fish.) I'm still healthy. I also do some long walks during the weekdays.
You have great taste in music! . I’m 45 and have kitchen raves all the time (due to having small kids) I hope to be out raving at 73 -you’re an inspiration 👏
@@carinaekstrom1 I am Dutch and what would I be without cheese? My eating habits are not an ideology. When I worked in Hadhramaut (Yemen) in the 1990s, there was a food shortage there. Only the rich could buy enough food. Not the poor. I, as a development worker, had enough money. I gave some of that to the people I worked with. As a thank you, I was subsequently invited to eat with them several times. They then served chicken or goat meat. Who would I be to refuse that? With the little money they had they had finally been able to buy meat again and wanted to share their joy with me. If I had refused, they would not have understood it, they might have been offended, because vegetarianism is a luxury we can afford in the West, but in poor countries it is often the only food available. In 2025 it will be fifty years since I stopped eating meat. When the fat bellies and bacon necks of the European Union and our government exert even more pressure to cut down on meat consumption, I will eat meat again in 2025!
So helpful. As a 66 year old lady with a diagnosis of osteoporosis a couple of years ago, I was prescribed Accrete as well as alendronic acid. The Accrete was really hard to do - two huge daily tablets requiring special timing food wise! This really impacted my digestion. On chatting with my enlightened GP she removed the Acrrete ( calling it concrete), changed that to one small Vit D per week and to get the calcium from my diet. What a huge difference that has made! The point is - keep questioning! I also bought a rebounder ( little trampoline) for 5 mins per day. Easier on the knees that jumping on the floor and great little cardio work out to start the day too. Thankyou.
There is so much differing advice on exercise for osteoporosis. Having gone through loads of RUclips videos of well qualified Doctors and osteopaths, the main exercises should be load bearing to create resistance. Bones grow when we create pressure upon them. Walking is ok, but doesn't really create enough pressure. Things like the bridge ( lying down , knees bent and raising your torso, which squeezing the buttocks), planking either against the wall or even half planks on the knees are the type of exercise advised. Rebounding is fun, but won't create enough resistance. It makes sense, as if you stop pressurising them by being sedentary, this causes the problems mentioned on here.
@@carole3734 That is very helpful to know - thankyou. I suppose, like many things in life, the best benefit will come from getting a good variety of exercise types, taking account of the individual’s abilities and needs. Like the food rainbow, we need an exercise rainbow too!
Do u know what ur hip score was in dexa mine is -3.8 and I have lost height I am also taking alendronic acid vit cali-d and they want to put me on zoldronate infusions which I am very reluctant to do I had two severe wedge fractures on my spine which lead to kyphosis How long have you been on alendronic acid to see good results and do u take anything eles I can’t do weight bearing exercises because I have very severe emphysema and struggle to breath
As a spine physician, most osteoporotic fractures occur with falls. So any discussion of osteoporosis needs to include, actually emphasize, fall prevention, for which resistance training is essential.
I’m 76, never been on HRT, and had breast cancer surgery 2 years ago. At that time I also had a DXA scan to determine bone density because I was scheduled to begin treatment with anastrozole following the radiation therapy. At that time I had normal, even better than average bone density for my age. A couple of months ago, I had a repeat DXA scan which showed loss of bone density classified as osteopenia. Since my diet has only improved, I was a bit disappointed. I reread how anastrozole works. I also read several studies that showed that plant estrogens do not appear to feed estrogen-dependent cancers, though they do mimic estrogen in other ways. So I decided to increase intake of foods that contain plant estrogens, mostly in the form of tempeh and black soy beans. I’ve also increased resistance exercise. (I can now do 15 pushups without stopping - something I couldn’t do even 6 months ago - and 15 medium deep squats, which is 12 more than when I first started 6 weeks ago) I’m hoping that these interventions improve my results next year. Things you’ve said give me hope that it can improve.
We are getting sicker and older so I think that’s why more of us are seeking information to save ourselves in this toxic world. We must take our health in our own hands because the government and our doctors aren’t helping. Thanks for your channel.
@@martinbolt5170 I disagree and I agree 😂, after I finished my cancer treatment, my GP was in charge of my health after my specialist,for the last 5 years I kept complaining seeking help for bones pain, muscle pain joint pain, tremor, and other side effect of the chemotherapy and hormone therapy, the GP has no clue and worse my referral has been declined without even seeing me, so I am so pissed off because I am suffering like hell but they are doing nothing
@@martinbolt5170But it shouldn't be the govs responsibility to promote subsidize and turn a blind eye to fake and dead foods taking over every part of western society making us sick. Guidelines like the American food pyramid was corruptly designed by the grain industry and that's just one of countless examples.
Don't be ridiculous. It's not the government's fault. It's not the doctors' fault. We're getting sicker because we're getting older, and because we're getting fatter.
I have recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis. I found the comments based on people's experience were more useful than the podcast as you did not talk about actual foods and diet enough. Some daily menu or recipe suggestions would have been more helpful.
I wish this information could have been available at the time my early menopause took place 14 years ago - I was disgnosed with osteoporosis of the spine at the age of 51 and back at age 39 all the consultant said make sure you do exercise and have a lot of dairy in your diet. I am now on alendronic acid, and HRT (as per my request) and diet and lifestyle changes - after 3 years my bone density has improved by 11% which is a massive win!
I tried Alendroniic acid. I had fuzzy episodes, and felt as if i was losing my cognition. I went to my GP who thought id had a stroke and sent me to A&E. They did all sorts of tests and told me that they could find nothing wrong but a slught lack of salt levels. They told me to stop the Alendronic acid and see how i went. My cognition came back. Thank goodness.
Thank you Jonathan for specifically asking to clarify that weightlifting is not necessarily the same as weight bearing exercises, since it seems to me that that distinction is often blurred. However, there was not much talk about what to eat, which is what the titled seemed to indicate as the topic.
I have yet to watch the full video. I am just browsing quickly through the comments to get a gist of what's being addressed...so thanks for pointing that out. I don't think you'll get an honest answer from ZOE about what to eat to prevent osteoporosis if that hasn't been mentioned in this video. If they do, you can be almost certain (i'd be surprised if not) that it will mostly exclude anything animal based. I am an experienced clinical/research scientist myself for context and have challenged ZOE in the comment section a fair bit and have yet to receive a response on any of their videos. They will give "hearts" to any pro-plant based comment but ignore anything that challenges the information they provide. ZOE won't always give you clear advice on what to eat with regards to certain things partly due to the fact that they are unfortunately a heavily biased pro plant-based channel in spite of the fact that unbiased science does not always support their position. They manipulate a lot of "half truths" to their tune. They won't necessarily commit themselves in certain areas they KNOW might be slippery for them. From my experience and that of many other experts in their fields, channels like ZOE, Mutritionfacts.org, Nutrition Made Simple, Plantchompers, Mic the vegan etc. have more to do with "ideology, religious/personal beliefs" rather than "unbiased science" (nothing against beliefs as a spiritual person myself). They will cherry pick the "science" that fits their narrative and discard anything that challenges it. I have clearly demonstrated that on some of their videos and many other world renowned experts have done the same (I remember there was one about vegetable oils on ZOE and another on Saturated fat on "Nutrition made simple" among others here and on those other channels..I can't list all the titles I've commented on right this moment). You might look them up if they haven't been removed. I'd venture to say that Tim Spector and Gil Carvalho and Christopher Gardner have a more balanced approach in all fairness compared to the likes of Dr.Greger, Dr. Barnard or Dr.McDougall for e.g. from the past videos I have watched although I have reviewed other videos from the 3 aforementioned that clearly indicate their plant-based bias as well. The Neftlix nonsense that Christopher Gardner was part of is proof of that. (the twin experiment). Any real expert can pluck out the flaws in that so called "study" that was "designed" to demonstrate a pro plant-based outcome and promote the plant-based business (see other channels that dissected it). Pure nonsense and absolutely irresponsible of you ask me. In my opinion, if you want to be exposed to UNBIASED health information and the latest scientific findings as well as the paradigm shifts taking place on the world of clinical/medical science, you stand a much better chance finding that on channels such as the following: The Metabolic Mind, Metabolic Health Summit, InsulinIQ, Public Health Collaboration, Low Carb Down Under, Low Carb Conferences, among others. If you are purely plants based, you won't like it over there but that's where information that is as close as possible to the truth lies in my expert opinion. I hope that helps.
Please provide a citation for the danger of vitamin D3 supplementation, especially in patients with osteoporosis or osteopenia. The only citation provided in the comments studied African schoolchildren and seems to only show that no benefit was found rather than that any harm may be done. The other citation studied pregnant women and did find a benefit (preliminary, it seems) for the children of those women at age 4 years. The preponderance of the evidence I've seen shows that D3 supplementation is totally safe at reasonable levels (up to about 5000 IU per day but with no need for more than about 1000 IU per day for the vast majority of people). The purpose of D3 supplementation is to hedge one's bets against D3 deficiency, which while not overwhelmingly prevalent, has rates estimated at 15% globally and over 40% in some countries. Further, sunscreen prevents D3 absorption but is extremely important for skin cancer prevention. Dismissing D3 supplementation with vague reference to unnamed studies is not prudent. Given the benefits and safety of D3 supplementation (not to mention D3 supplements being very affordable), a serious, rigorous explanation needs to be provided for a counter to be taken seriously.
My endocrinologist told me thare was a bell-shaped curve in the efficacy of supplementation with vitamin D3. That means if you take too high a dose it would not be beneficial for preventing fractures. Yet every time she told me to lower the dose I got the flu in the summer and Covid 19 (once) in winter. I have not been able to receive any vaccination since 1970s due to many allergies and reactions to chemical compounds. My vitamin D level remains in the optimal range yet with the same dosage as I age my level has been going down. Therefore I just adjust my dosage myself (I am in the medical profession) and I take vitamin D3 with K2, supplementing with Mg and other trace elements. I have been on Vitamin D3 for 2 decades (no calcium supplement only dietary sources) but continue to have poor bone density (dietary, habit and ethnicity reasons) and have fractured my tib and fib 10 years ago for missing a step. My bones healed very well, no loss of function. Instead of taking biphosphates (as I am well aware of their adverse effects) I started taking strontium citrate instead for bone strength (not density) but I need to persevere doing exercises. It seems to work fairly well - I have had two accidents the past 3 years - fell on my hip and had head injury but I have been fine. I had covid 19 and I just had fatigue for one day (my vitamin D level surely helped). Basically I just let my body dictates what I need, health professionals serve as advisors but we have to manage our own health - each person has different response to illness. As a long term health professional I have learned that experts often learn from their mistakes added to their wealth of experience; patients are the best teachers.
D3 with K2-7 is especially effective, and additionally improves immune system and helps calcium go into bones rather than gluing to our blood vessel walls
I agree. Prof Cooper's dismissal is typical of experts. My logic is simple. It is more likely, although not a guarantee, that the way something has been designed is correct. For example, I would first assume that my car engine manual specified the correct engine oil type and the correct amount. I would not just use half the amount of say olive oil just because I thought I knew better than the engine designer - until I was proven to be correct. Similarly, as a starting point, I would first assume that Mother Nature's design by evolution over millions of years is likely to be correct. I would follow Mother Nature until I was proven wrong. i.e. Vit D levels 125-175 nmol/l for a human being living in the environment in which it evolved. I would not wait for an expert to prove that Mother Nature was correct before I supplemented Vit D to reach this level. I know from several blood tests that it is impossible to reach and maintain 125-175 nmol/l without many times the supplementation levels advised by the NHS experts. I am a 67 year old white male in England.
My understanding is that Vitamin D3 should be taken with Vitamin K2 MK7 for the better absorption of calcium to where it is needed vs to your soft tissue.
I'm amazed sending away 50 year olds because they have a low FRAX score. That is the VERY time we need direction re diet and exercise. I was not told in 2022 I had osteporosis, presumably because my FRAX was low and I didn't need meds. Fast forward to now and I have 3 fractures T7, 5 and 3 because I wasn't picking things up correctly. Now I have a mountain to climb to get well.
In the West most of the studies are sponsored or they get grants from some of the companies that manufacture these drugs. Everything is about profit $$$$ these days, even wars.
they didn’t talk about the remedy? I am 16 mins into the talk but most useless facts which we mostly know already. We don’t need to be convinced that it exists. We need to know how to prevent it in real life not just go to a doc and get some meds which would be the last step.
I am not so sure about that. There are many other ways to help our bones. Our natural oestogen levels will fall and I dont want to fight that artificially. (Possibly stone-age folk would be dead before menopause! But thats another discussion)
@@helenswan705 whilst I do agree with you about fighting it naturally, the link with oestrogen reduction is undeniable. It’s particularly important for women who go through early menopause. Hence why men only get it at much lower rates. It needs to be assessed on a case by case basis to see if HRT is the solution but you can only do so much with diet and exercise.
Yes, when he says it’s not caused by the menopause, he’s wrong. It is caused by menopause, like so many other health issues such as blood sugar disregulation and cardiovascular disease - we can mitigate the negative effects to some extent, but there’s a limit what we can achieve with just healthy food and lifestyle if there’s a key element (oestrogen) missing!
Side effects of bone meds were glossed over - almost dismissed. Apart from ONJ, eg there was no mention of spontaneous vertebral fractures after the discontinuation of denosumab. Once you start on bone meds, it's a lifelong commitment.
My research has indicated the strong likelihood of necrosis of the jaw and reports from patients about this occurrence are so horrific I cannot imagine these meds are not banned.
@@ld3418 I think you'll find that the incidence of ONJ among patients treated for osteoporosis is extremely low. The vast majority of cases occur in patients who are given much higher intravenous bisphosphonate doses as part of cancer treatment.
Why no mention of the view that Calcium intake, whether in food or by supplementation, needs Magnesium to work correctly in the body, also that VitK2 is also said to be essential to metabolise calcium and make D2 work to deposit calcium in the bone structure.
And boron as well. I read about a study where there was positive help to be had by using prunes for boron. 4 a day. I also grind up eggshells because they have lots of minerals as well as calcium. Also the film under the shell is made of collagen so include that as well.
I really value Zoe podcasts, but was a bit disappointed that in the quick fire round, Professor Cyrus Cooper answered a resounding YES! to the question can osteoporosis be reversed? but this was not picked up or fleshed out in the podcast, ummmmmm it seems relevant. If you're hosting health podcasts, please focus on three things, 1. what your risk factors are - 2. what to do to prevent - and 3. what to do if you've got it ! There's also some controversy regarding the bisphosphonate drugs that I also would have liked Zoe to give a little attention to.
Exactly! These biophosphonates actually INCREASE fracture risks!! Ask your pharmacist for the literature that comes with these drugs or research it. These drugs are dangerous! Seriously!
Another factor more recently discovered is that bone density in itself is no necessarily the major factor, but bone quality and tensile strength. Drugs have been found to make bone stiffer, and less resilient to trauma, as reducing resorption leads to older bone. I am surprised to read that drugs can reduce fracture risk up to 50 percent. Two people I know who have osteoporosis are very active vegetarians! Would like to have heard the views on the value of protein and how much is required in prevention and treatment. Thank you for addressing this important but often neglected condition.
I have osteoporosis at 72 and find this program is extremely helpful. My doctor extremely helpful and is starting my 6 monthly injections today. Exercise and diet is helping.
I find Tim’s reiterations helpful as he is just reinforcing what the expert has said, and in a simplified way, which helps more people understand the details. It’s a re-capping rather than an ego boosting I think.
Appreciate the discussion but feel it’s more complicated than this. I’ve done everything as suggested, but still have osteoporosis. Since introducing Vit K2 I’ve managed to stop bone loss, and now to increase bone density, I’m doing a specific weight lifting programme called Onero that is backed by research. It’s impossible to keep taking oestrogen as you age. Skipping and excellent diet was not enough either. Sarcopenia and bone loss seem to go hand in hand. I’ve also been reading up on some specific strains in the microbiome that improve osteoporosis. Also some studies show that some of the drugs prescribed may not actually prevent fracture . My mother suffered terrible from necrosis of the jaw after taking Bisphosphonates.
@@yvonne3903 I use Serenity by Wellsprings. Have used since my menopause and am still using it at 63. I use the 20-1 cream: 20 of progesterone to 1 of oestrogen. the Wellsprings website is wonderful. Really recommend it. You can email for advice and will get a response from a doctor by email.
I am drug free , use a LIV plate, lift weights ,run on treadmill, walk a lot ,eat healthily , squats ion a power plate &I LOVE the channel 'Improved heath' workouts on RUclips, really useful workouts (I do drink wine!!!! life is for living)
Unfortunately it takes time for medical profession to catch up. I have osteoporosis and taken vitamin D3 and K2 plus some other minerals for almost 15 years and plus exercise and Mediterranean diet.
When I broke my collar bone and discovered I had osteopenia, while investigating the topic I learnt about the supposed importance of vit K2 and "desperately" searched for it. I now take 100 mcg or 125 mcg daily as well as around 3000 ui of vit D.
Thanks for this Zoe! Im in my senior years and have eaten a Vegan diet for 5years and Vegetarian for 30years. I have cut out UPF totally now and feel amazing. I cook everything from raw natural foods. I supplement with vitamin D and take vegan omega 3. I walk 4-6 miles a day in the park and do weights training and bike 5 days a week. I shall be adding skipping and some star jumps to my regime! Great advice chaps ❤💚
I’m mid 60’s. I broke my arm in 2011 after tripping over something in the garden. As I was just post menopausal I had a DEXA scan (though had to wait over a year!) & was told my bone density was lower than optimal for my age - osteopenia - & given Adcal which I didn’t take for long! Surprised no one mentioned osteopenia in this podcast. A repeat DEXA in 2019 showed little change, no better but no worse. I eat a varied diet including meat & chicken (not very Zoe friendly!!) eggs, fish & dairy plus nuts, seeds & certain fruit & veg but as I live in north of UK I supplement with VitD & K2. I have no plans to ditch this as Vit D is vital for so many aspects of health. I’ve never taken HRT but sometimes wish I had! I’m not on any medication & wouldn’t be keen to take drugs. I was hoping to have some specific foods mentioned as the title suggested. Overall I was a bit underwhelmed with this podcast.
Is there any response from the panellists regarding the results of eating prunes following evidence of astronauts bone density improving from eating prunes?
Please take care when suggesting weight bearing activity is always helpful - I had significant osteoporosis after cancer treatment and chemical menopause and fractured a vertebrae trampolining. I now weight bear a lot through hiking long distances, but skipping and trampolining would have been damaging early on.
That was most probably as a side-effect of the chemo you were on! Chemo destroys many normal body functions. Not much is mentioned in the media about this as it's a huge Phrama business.
It depends on how you "trampoline". If you go mad doing leaping and somersaulting of course you are going to damage something. But easy rocking is of benefit to everyone. Do not discourage others.
So where is the “information” on nutrition to help the bones? All they do is talk about everything else and not get to the point of the main topic of this program!!
Vitamin D @ 25 min: I live in Florida and in my early 60s (70 now) I started testing D3. Was below 30 ng/ml which is low end of ref range. I live in Florida but have been an office worker but walk 5 miles a day outside. Went through a couple of years testing, adding near full body sun exposure 10 to 15 minutes a day, and adjusting supplement levels. Finaly settled on about 4000 IU per day to keep my in the 40 to 50 ng/ml, slowly transitioning from 1000 IU per day My point is that sun alone may not cut it, and to test. Look at the full range of research on D. I had previously took the lead from researchers like Michael Hollick, but will look into the researcher of Cyrus Cooper. BTW, I don't take D3 for bone health as it seems to have pleotropic effects. I eat a Zoe like diet and walk a lot giving my skeleton plenty of moderate stress. Zoe, please get a second opinion on D3 and over health effects, not just on bones.
I’m in the U.K. Started Vit D in 2020, 4000IU in winter plus midday sun most days from April to September. I started testing in Sept 23 and a month ago in March 24. Sept 23 was only 30ng/L so like you but after 3 years of work so I must’ve been really low in 2020 (I’m 60 and outside a lot so surprising). And was 34ng/L in March 24. Slow going. So I upped my dose to 8000IU plus K2 through summer (wasn’t dosing in summer before then) plus usual midday sunning. I’ll test same dates this year and next, which correspond to beginning and end of the sunbathing possibility in U.K. and that way I can distill out effects of summer sun and winter dosing with no sun on blood level. I hope to get to 50ng/L which is the level at which studies said Vit D is highly protective against COVID hospitalisation. I’m not afraid of covid but that study was a good indication of optimal levels. Some say there isn’t a flu season, just a low Vit D season.
Zoe is sponsored, in part, by Big Pharma so will gloss over D 3 benefits and the potential cost saving if we were all D3 sufficient. I would like to see the studies they mentioned! After all Covid vaccine companies said their jab was safe and effective! Yet statisticians have said the only benefit, after examining the trial results, ignoring the side effects, was placebo. I have read Michael Holick’s book ‘The Vitamin D solution’.
I live in Australia with an abundance of fresh food, sunlight and an active lifestyle. I’ve always cooked food from scratch for my family, taught my children to be mindful of their diets, do sport, avoid junk food, sugar and processed foods etc. As a family we eat for metabolic health and a happy microbiome. At 68 I still work part time and go to the gym (mobility and resistance) 3 times per week. My question is: How, when I’ve done all the things recommended in this podcast all my life, these steps didn’t prevent osteoporosis so how are they going to fix it?
@@yvonne3903 Everyday, but I have a lot of skin damage from a misspent youth at the beach. Honestly, you don't even need to go outside to tan where I live (SW of Western Australia), the reflected sun does the job. My 83yo mother is severely vitamin D deficient and tomorrow I'm taking her to get her skin cancers burned off and surgically removed. So, we are very confused by the conflicting info and experiences =/
There is growing interest in understanding the interaction between medications like bisphosphonates and the gut microbiome, the current body of research is still developing. As the importance of the microbiome in health and disease continues to be recognized, it is likely that this area will receive more attention, leading to better-informed use of bisphosphonates and improved management of their side effects. Current Understanding Gut Absorption and Effects: Bisphosphonates are known to have gastrointestinal side effects, such as irritation of the esophagus and stomach, which are among the most common reasons patients might discontinue their use. The mechanism involves the drug's direct action on the gastrointestinal lining, which can lead to inflammation. Impact on Microbiome: The direct impact of bisphosphonates on the gut microbiome is less clear. The medication could potentially affect the microbiome indirectly through changes in gut pH, alterations in the mucosal barrier, or immune modulation. However, detailed studies specifically examining these effects are sparse. Implications of Microbiome Changes: Any changes to the gut microbiome that might be induced by bisphosphonates could have broader implications for health. The microbiome is involved in numerous processes, including nutrient absorption, immune system function, and even the modulation of inflammation throughout the body.
This was very helpful. I had just begun investigating the liftmor study. I'd always done small weight lifting during aerobic classes but it obviously wasn't enough. I now have osteoporosis and my first compression fracture.
I have not listened to a Zoe RUclips video for a considerable length of time. The content is clearly very important, but the delivery was not orientated to everyday people. This episode is much better. I too am a vitamin D taker and have told every person amongst my friend that they should be taking it so I was most concerned to learn that this is not regarded as good practice. "Vitamin D Good or Bad", would be a great topic for another broadcast. I have only one friend who is a professor (I have lots of friends but only one is a professor) and he thought it was a good idea to take it, so I would be interested for Zoe to explore this topic.
I am curious about what type of vitamin D was used in the study and whether they used vitamin k2 with it. Vitamin D3 is better and k2 is necessary for it to be absorbed.
It's just shocking to break bones! I broke 7 bones this year...5 at one time during a fall. I'm 74. Very active and very healthy. Take no medications and everyone is always surprised at my age. After my fall, and a hospital stay and rehab I wanted to find out why I had so many fractures. I went to a place that does the scan and they sent results to my Dr. He called me and said I have stage 4 osteoporosis. You could have hit me with a brick! How did I get this???? There are no osteoporosis experts in my town, and most regular Dr's are not schooled in it. They just know the basics. I am never "sick" and asked my Dr how could this happen? He said the standard of care suggests that women don't get a dexa scan till they are 70, which we did not do. Well....I've had this for years!. I see him once a year, and he always brags about how healthy I am! He recommended a popular drug for me, and after research, this drug can cause fractures after 5 years. I said no. So I am trying to keep up weight bearing exercises and a good diet. I must say, breaking another bone is on my mind all the time. I really have no pain, but my hips and spine kind of ache sometimes. So folks, stay on top of this. Just because you look good, feel good and live a healthy life, doesn't mean that on the inside of you, your bones are telling a different story. Faith in God!
Ahhh man! So sorry to hear about your fractures! You're so right about taking ownership over our bones. If you haven't already found this channel you might find resources and information on RUclips channel The Dr Doug Show | Bones, Hormones and HealthSpan to be very helpful. I really do. I'm 67, very active, healthy and thin and recently received a diagnosis of osteoporosis. I am immersing myself in factual information and am optimistic about being able to make positive changes to my bone health. Right off I knew my diet was lacking in protein so immediately I upped that along with increasing impact to bones like heel drops and supervised weight training along with keeping up with my daily living activities such as carrying grand kids, luggage, firewood., groceries etc.. All the best to you!
Potential negative effects of bisphosphonates on trabecular bone: There is some evidence to suggest that long-term use of these drugs may have adverse effects on bone quality and strength. Some studies have suggested that prolonged use of bisphosphonates may lead to oversuppression of bone turnover, resulting in an accumulation of microdamage and a decrease in bone quality. This could potentially increase the risk of certain types of fractures, particularly atypical femur fractures. Additionally, there is evidence that bisphosphonates may have different effects on trabecular and cortical bone. While they may increase bone mineral density in the cortical bone, some studies have suggested that they may not have the same beneficial effects on trabecular bone, which is more metabolically active and plays a crucial role in maintaining bone strength.
You're almost right. However, your third sentence contradicts the rest of your comment. Atypical femoral fractures are fractures of the femoral shaft, which is exclusively cortical bone. This was initially discovered in long-term follow up of patients treated with alendronate. Far from having a negative effect on trabecular bone, antiresorptives have a preferential benefit on trabecular bone precisely because there is more active turnover. Bone quality can be compromised if antiresorptives are used for more than a few years, which is why that is no longer recommended. However, the benefit for bone density far outweighs the disadvantage in bone quality when only used for a couple of years.
Diagnosed with osteoporosis 22 years ago at age 61. Fosamax for 5 1/2 years with no increase in bone density and then supplemented with "D" and substantial increase in bone density, spine increased from -3.2 to -2.4 at age 83. Everything said today is the exact opposite from my actual experience. I am not going deny my actual experience and try drugs again.
Obviously they are very wise, but I think this needs to be edited as it’s quite dangerous in its approach. They have summarised everything based on “averages”. A key thing with osteoporosis, especially the earlier onset types is to identify why you have got it. That can be due to being coeliac or thyroid problems but you have to start with that and so much of the right things to do follow on from that.
Because the studies on K2 aren’t supporting thesis. I started taking K2 supplement despite no evidence to help bone density in hope in the new studies will emerge in the future. Was taking K2 about 10 years ago due to hype but stoped as didn’t want to waiste money on smth without proof. Now postmenopausal, have no choice but do everything in my power to prevent osteoporosis. Have been slim my entire life and it’s a risk factor. I do weight bearing exercises ,high protein and high calcium diet and correct supplementation.
Noted.In 65 years no one gets it dead on so I take from everyone and do not expect any one entity to get it all. I do aprreciate getting the facts from studies and information on the deleterious effects of the predominant drugs being peddled, like necrosis of the jaw. Have taken D3 and K2 for years with no effect on my Dexa scan so still searching for what to add/delete for improvement.
@@ija04. But there are 3 Major studies on Vit K 2. [MENAQUINONE]; 👉THE Rotterdam study that was completed in 2017; following 4,000 people for 10 years! you call that no evidence bone density was increased at 8% versus 3% with all the risks with your by phosphates hideous hideous chance of having necrosis of your job bone are you kidding me? The other studies were called the epic in Japan or Europe, but there was another study in Europe, all of them surpassing any pharmaceutical toxin .
I just came across this podcast ... I am a female and will be 66 at the end of June. Back in April, I had a DEXA Scan that said I had a 6.8% decrease in bone density since 2020. In 2020 when I had a bone density test, I had an increased my bone density, and was told to continue doing what I have been doing. So I that is what I have been doing. I have an annual Dr appointment in December (the end of December) and he doesn't even want to see me until then, to talk about it. I am a person that is very active. I walk 5 or more miles a day, I do weight training exercises as well as balance, abs, stretching ... etc. Since he doesn't want to see me, I am doing my own research and found out that there are certain foods, supplements and exercises that I should or should not be doing. So I am working on that right now. Is there anything you can offer up to me that I can work on until my next Dr appointment, which like I said above is not until December (the end of December). Also, do you think I should find another Dr that would at least care a little bit about how worried I am about this T-Score of -2.1? Thank you for any help you can offer me. 🙂
I now take tablets to prevent my bones crumbling. i was discovered to have a tumour on my parathyroid( due to high calcium in my blood tests) and had an operation to remove it 6 months before covid struck. I was told the operation would stop my bones crumbling. I discovered that Lithium which I had been prescribed and taken for 25years following a psychotic episode that presented after the birth of our second child. I took myself off it very slowly when i was 60 as I discovered that for 5 years my lithium levels had been below therapeutic dose. I did not know of its relationship with low bone density at the time. I did not know what to eat for good bone health. THANK YOU ZOE
Very informative but also confusing. I specifically refer to the comments about vitamin D and that the advice from governments is wrong. However, governments will only give such advice on the basis of medical/scientific advice received. I have also read reports on recent substantive studies on vitamin D supplementation that conclude the exact opposite, i.e. that levels advocated by governments is too low and that significantly higher levels of vitamin d combined with K2 provide benefits to general health and specifically to improved immunity. Not for the first time we are being subjected to conflicting advice by medical & scientific professionals.
It's always better to go with the scientific evidence. Medics don't have the time AND they have to stick to official guidance and protocols, UNLESS you, the patient, insist otherwise (in which case they cannot be sued).
Yes, I’ve even heard some health professionals saying that we should take 5000 mg of D a day. (With Vitamin K.) I agree that on so many aspects of diet, nutrition and supplements , there are a great many conflicting opinions and studies. The biggest debate on the net atm is between the mainly plant based advocates (like Zoe) versus advocates of the low carb/high fat, ketogenic and carnivore diets.
I think the nutritional value of plants these days must be questionable given that most of them are now grown on non organic , non biodynamic and overfarmed soils that are only fed with minimum artificial fertiliser inputs.
It is imperative to see WHO funded any research. Most of the drugs out there have had their "research" funded by the very drug companies who are selling them! The big pharma companies then "present" the research for approval by the FDA, who does NOT do any investigation or studies of their own. They basically rubber stamp the drugs!! Many of these drugs have research that has been manipulated to "show" what they want it to show (therefore to get it "approved" by the FDA) and humanity are really the guinea pigs. This is why you see the history of a very popular drug ... For example (and there are a few of these stories with famous drugs you would recognize that have been removed off the market) that they marketed, sold for 20 years, made BILLIONS, and then FINALLY, there was enough evidence to directly connect that drug to some bad effects (like DEATH etc)... Then they take it off the market. They may have to pay out some lawsuits but our government passed a law 25ish years ago that the cap on lawsuit payments to victims by the pharmaceutical companies is only $250,000. (And that's only is you can PROVE it! And many doctors don't want to ever even write in your medical records that it's a "possibility" that a drug may have adversely affected you because they don't want to get on the bad side of big pharma) So! The drug companies don't care..... They made their billions. So what if they have to pay out millions. So what if unknown numbers of people died....? THEY DON'T CARE. They just continue to create NEW drugs to do this with. Everyone should do in depth research on the bone drugs. Watch the RUclips documentary by a French journalist called "Selling Sickness"..... There is an entire section on the bone drug Fossamax.... (In the 2nd half of the video but it's ALL worth watching) Eye opening and everyone should watch it BEFORE they EVER take a bone drug. (I have my own story to tell if anyone asks).
Hey ZOE was there ever an update on Jonathan’s microbiome tests after recovering from antibiotics? I remember he promised an update but maybe I missed it?
At 80 I was put on Calci D tablets. No tests were done at the time but had to get a blood test to get Alendronic injections. This showed my calcium level was higher than it should be so I was taken off them. I know many ladies who are advised to take these without any checks on their actual levels.
Also if it was calcium carbonate that you were prescribed, which is the norm, they are antacids and stop your gut absorbing nutrients. My gran used to have a packet of TUMS in her pocket for acid, TUMS are calcium carbonate.
I expected a bit more from this illustrious panel. They only mentioned 2 (Ca, D) of the 4 'musketeers' needed to fill 'the hole in the road': without Mg and especially vitamin K2 how would calcium get incorporated into the bones? Also, an opportunity lost for not informing us that even teenagers who drink lots of carbonated soft drinks already have osteoporosis, because the carbonation blocks mineral absorption.
@@UlrikeFieglein Thank you for pointing out my having been been not clear enough, Ulrike. Of course, you are right! I should have mentioned that carbonated drinks (Lemonades) get phosphates added, as the 'bubbles' are no problem. Duh! Vitamin D regelt u.a. die Aufnahme von Phosphor. Umgekehrt reguliert Phosphor auch die Umwandlung des Vitamin D zu seiner wirksamen Form. Ein hoher Phosphor-Spiegel regelt das Vitamin-D-Hormon herunter, wodurch weniger Calcium aufgenommen wird. Der Körper löst dann Calcium aus den Knochen, was zu Osteoporose führen kann. Zu viel Phosphor führt durch eine gestörte Calcium-Verwertung auch zur Verkalkung von Muskeln und Arterien, was ein zusaetzliches Gesundheitsrisiko darstellt.
@pietrocantuccini5584 Das ist absolut der Fall. Danke für die Richtigstellung. Die dunklen Soda Sorten wie zB. Cola, Dr.Pepper, Rootbeer haben Phosphate als Zusatz. Die klaren Sorten wie zB. Sprite haben keine Phosphate. Aber natürlich ist dann wieder die Zuckerkonzentration unglaublich in allen. Ganz zu schweigen vom Zusatz von High Fructose Corn Syrup in den USA.
My mother was on Fosomax for 7-8 years. She took it religiously every week then walk everyday for miles. One day fell on a sidewalk and broke her shaft of her femur in half. She had gone through surgery very successfully, but as you said she died of C-Diff in the rehab setting in california.
Fosomax increases femur fractures as it makes bone more dense by reducing the speed of bone absorption so bones become more brittle . Normally bone has to be absorbed and new bone created . This is why these medications are less prescribed now . Weights and resistance bands are a better way to go
My husband was on an IV Bisphosphonate for his bone cancer and he ended up with osteonecrosis of his jaw after he developed a dental abscess. It was the worst thing he ever went through and it lasted for several years before he passed. It is true in the US that there are dentists who will not treat you for even a cavity in your mouth if you take even one of those pills because even one tablet can cause osteonecrosis. I didn't really find this discussion to be very helpful unfortunately.
My granny was in her 80s when she fell and fracture her hips. She was bed-ridden and eventually passed on due to infection. I am now going through menopause and trying to do everything I can to maintain my musculoskeletal health.
I am waiting for a full hip operation and I also have Stenosis in the lumbar spine and apparently Osteoporosis. I get a lot of lumbar pain when walking and was wondering if it would be too risky concerning fractures, to do weight bearing exercises or if it may be safe ? . I don’t want to start jumping around and cause a fracture! Can you advise please?
Really interesting podcast. My mum has just been diagnosed with osteoporosis after 2x fractures to her spine and I immediately ran off to look at additional supplements. I shall do a rethink and use the knowledge I gained through Zoe to be a bit more thoughtful about what I eat. Thanks x
Precisely!!! Our Medicare is seriously Broken. Unless you live in a capital city, forget access to medical care and even though I return to said city and prior Dr. , it is still a nightmare.
This was a fascinating episode and always appreciative of the podcasts that Zoe puts out. Agree that we are perhaps over-supplementing with the Calcium. Some Drs here in the US are starting to ratchet down on the daily recommended intake of Ca. Would love to see another podcast on this subject with a deeper dive on foods that can help prevent osteoporois especially for people who are perimenopausal/early stage menopause/osteopenic. Catching things early by altering diet and treating with hormones and possibly dietary supplements before one becomes full-blown osteoporotic would seem to be prudent. For example, there are studies in Japan which suggest that Natto and its vitamin K properties would be beneficial. Perhaps, get the view point of a functional medicine doctor on this topic?
This Interview was an eye-opener for me, a menopausal woman with breast cancer and then osteoporosis and to hear the doctors talking about calcium vitamin D filled in a few blanks for me that my doctors did not and could not because of their so called standards of care. Thank you!
48:00 What to eat. Diverse unprocessed foods. Espec lots of Vegetables (countless minerals). 52:20 Exercise. Force applied to the bone. Impact or jolting exercise like jogging, skipping. Walking w a bounce. They didnt mention jumping jacks or Hiit. Gymnastics would likely be great but not so practical. Taking Calcium and vit D may not be a good idea.
Thank you for all this great information. I’ve had severe osteoporosis since diagnosed in my early 40’s. I took a traumatic fall & fractured numerous vertebrae, ribs & wrists. I had a hysterectomy when I was 35. I was left with one ovary. I wasn’t put on hormones and my Surgeon didn’t mention anything about me going through Surgical Menopause. I didn’t have any menopause symptoms. However, now looking back, I’m really wondering just how good that one ovary was working. I’ve broken many more bones since then. I’m now 60. I’ve taken the injection Prolia for at least the last 10 years. It’s not helped so I’m going to talk to my Rheumatologist about something else because I’ve been on this 2 long. I just got put on HRT at age 60. The Doctors really did women wrong due to the flawed study regarding breast cancer and estrogen. I got caught in the middle of that being refused by a Gynecologist in my city. I finally found someone who gave me hormone replacement therapy but it’s probably 2 late 2 help my bones.
I am halfway listening the talk and so far there is no mention at all about Vitamin-K!!? It is well known how important this vitamin is working in synergy with Vitamin D and calcium 🤷♀️ Yet, you speak about trials, where vitamin D made osteoporosis worst. Was vitamin D given with vitamin K? That would be a very important detail….
@@jacquielowell3672 I think both. Sea salt has nutrients that our bones use. I'm sure a healthy gut helps our bones. Hence my surprise that the role of fermented food was not discussed.
Hi Zoe, I am 82 and vegan so I became a bit concerned after watching this. However I think you were, in the main, talking about people living in the UK I live in South Africa (sunny South Africa) so I pulled up a map of worldwide ostioporosis distribution and it looks like my risk of getting ostioporosis is low. Presumably due to the vitamin D we get from the sun. I would appreciate a comment
Interesting discussion but I think there is an opportunity to go further. For example, effects of alcohol, and exerices such as cycling, or types of weight-training regimes one can do. It would be inspiring to see widespread encouragement and support for older people to do proper exercises, such as lifting free weights, not just walking every day. Car use is a problem?
Cycling doesn’t help the bones as it is not weight bearing. There was a tv programme some years ago comparing bone density of athletes from different sports and professional cyclists came out bottom
@@RedDragon-eh8hx Thank you that is good to know! I am wiser because of it. Hopefully more people will understand this. I am an amomaly though as I only ride fixed gear and have push very hard and use my toe straps to pull up when climbing hills.
I am a 79 yrs old female. I have osteopenia in my forearm. If I did 2+ mins of skipping per day how would that improve my forearm bone density or would I need to target that area with specific exercise? What would that exercise be? Thank you
Another example where science has started to argue against the 'science norm'. Science and research is at a tricky junction. Social media and open access is laying bare these contradictory views. I'm sure they've always been there. The general public trusted science without question and never saw these disagreements. One wonders how the research community will fare in the future? I'm currently saying one thing to my GP regarding hrt and she is saying the complete opposite because NICE are slow to catch up with the research community. It's getting more confusing for the average person.
I have had Colitis for 16 years and had not realised nor been informed that the absorption of vitamins and minerals from the gut becomes impaired due to the inflammation. So I guess that this would affect your advice regarding Calcium and Vit D supplementation as my blood Vit D level was rock bottom.
A lot of very interesting information. However, I would like to know if weight bearing on the legs (walking, skipping, etc), would improve bone density in arms and spine, as the three risk areas are hips, spine and wrists.
It's more likely that the areas that receive more tension/weight bearing will develop more bone density, so doing a full body exercise regime makes more sense for bone density than to just walk, for example.
Vitamin D3 takes around a month to be convertet into its active form, calcefidiol. Why is calcefidiol only aproved for vetinary use in the UK when it's use could make so much differnce to treat acute conditions?
It is approved in other countries for human use. I'm in Poland and took a mix of both forms recently 50000 units (I think it was for horses) every 6 days but will be measuring again soon and getting to lower values. But please take magnesium with normal Vitamin D3 since if you are magnesium defficient taking Vitamin D3 will make it worse. Magnesium either eat more dark leafy greens of be carefull what you take since often they put Magnesium Oxide or Cardbonate which are little or not effective at all. Actually from what I heard Vitamin D3 takes about 1-2 weeks do be converted but I suppose it depends...
Vitamin D deficiency is a global health problem due to its high prevalence and its negative consequences on musculoskeletal and extra-skeletal health. In our comparative review of the two exogenous vitamin D supplementation options most used in our care setting, we found that cholecalciferol has more scientific evidence with positive results than calcifediol in musculoskeletal diseases and that it is the form of vitamin D of choice in the most accepted and internationally recognised clinical guidelines on the management of osteoporosis. Cholecalciferol, unlike calcifediol, guarantees an exact dosage in IU (International Units) of vitamin D and has pharmacokinetic properties that allow either daily or even weekly, fortnightly, or monthly administration in its equivalent doses, which can facilitate adherence to treatment. Regardless of the pattern of administration, cholecalciferol may be more likely to achieve serum levels of 25(OH)D (25-hydroxy-vitamin D) of 30-50 ng/mL, an interval considered optimal for maximum benefit at the lowest risk. In summary, the form of vitamin D of choice for exogenous supplementation should be cholecalciferol, with calcifediol reserved for patients with liver failure or severe intestinal malabsorption syndromes. PMID: 32486496
The banner says “These foods prevent osteoporosis” suggesting there might be a list of specific foods somewhere in the discussion. I didn’t find anything like that, but I might have missed it and would appreciate it if I could be pointed to the segment “these foods” appear in. Thanks for any help with this.
How one can talk about Vitamin D3 suplementation without mentioning magnesium ? Many people are Mg defficient and it is needed for Vitamin D3 processing. In this case Vitamin D3 would cause bigger defficency of magnesium which I would presume is a very bad thing for the whole body and that would include the bones. Higher levels of vitamin D3 are required for better immunity, and other processes in the body not really for bone health. But I would presume we should not treat one disease but the patient.
6 months year here in the un sunny UK I take K2 and vit D in a combined spray so I don't have to think about it much in the mornings. I take magnesium at night as it relaxes muscles and aids sleep. If I take vit D at night it keeps me awake.
This is the same with me. I fractured a hip after falling on the ice at age 59. I had no problems recovering and never once did I think I would die. I took bisphosphonates for 10 years on on off as tolerated and my bone density continues to fall. I have decided to stop the medication. I have a healthy diet with diverse plants to no avail.
@@ivyclara9782 Hi, I am a retired physical therapist. Yes it is possible to completely recover from a hip fracture. BUT if you are over 65 the stats are alarming . If you have a fracture over the age of 65 about 25 percent of people will die within the next year.( This is with surgery) 50 percent will not recover their previous level of mobility. In other words if you walked without device prior to surgery you may now need a cane. The death rate without surgery is much higher because you would need pronged bed rest for the hip to heal.But as I said earlier it is still possible for an older person can completely heal from a hip fracture.
I had a DEXA scan in my 40s as I'm housebound with limited mobility - dx with osteopenia, a precursor to osteoporosis. But I also seemed to have malabsorption issues at the time with lots of deficiencies picked up on blood tests. (NHS, beyond a celiac test refused to look further into why I'm not absorbing minerals & effectively despite a v healthy diet!!). But here in UK NHS just put you on ADCAL - calcium & Vit D3 - which seems ineffective! This is not mentioned in above dialogue nor the mention of osteopenia is an indicator of osteoporosis to follow unless action is taken. I discovered last year I needed Vit K2 to take with D3 to even absorb the calcium in my bones & magnesium! Immediately stopped ADCAL & now taking these high quality (aka expensive) supplements instead alongside my healthy diet. Will see what my next scan this month reveals.
Same story with me... But also low B12 due to malabsorption. Was on long term omeprazole (not monitored) Gastritis ect. Now I'm paying for B12 IM injections and buying my own vitamins ( started with patches) as I couldn't take anything in pill form as I'd ruined my stomach eating wheat (villi are returning slowly) so topical application was the only way. I also have osteoarthritis? NHS will not help. My GP keeps telling me I'm depressed ( not depressed, bloody angry).. I work full time and try to manage my health myself.
We have osteoporosis in our family, so I was conscious of what might happen in the future. In 1994, at 48, I had a total hysterectomy, which meant No Estrogen. I was on HRT - Progyluton (I think) for over 12 years. That was stopped because long-term use of HRT outcomes wasn't clear. Then I was on Alendronate for a few years, followed by Zolendronic Acid annually for another 5 years; Strontium Ranclate for a while. Since 2015, I have been on Denosumab bi annually. I get a bone density scan done annually, and results show that there has been no further deterioration. I take a calcium supplement prescribed by my endocrinologist and other supplements. I have been hypothyroid since 1994.
I thought, jumping up and down when you have osteoporosis would increase your risk of getting a compression fracture of your lumbar spine. Please explain.
creating stress on the bones through weight and impact exercises causes osteoblast activity and they become slightly more dense, basically if it’s safe for you to do so then you should be doing impact exercises. Obviously it isn’t safe if your osteoporosis is severe though so it’s a case by case basis.
I followed Tim's advice to do heel raises because I have limited mobility and unfortunately it made the pains in my right leg much worse (?siatica) and is taking a long time to settle down. I'm 81 and have booked an nhs physio appointment but am having to waait4 months.
22:20 is there any reason why we shouldn't make earlier screening available on the basis that if your t score is better than -1.5 you come back for another scan in 5-10 years. If it's better than -2.5 we discuss non pharmacological interventions and scan again in 3 yrs. If it's worse than -2.5 we put all reasonable treatment options on the table regardless of age.
20:09 I can't help wondering if treatment options are taken off the table for patients who are diagnosed later in life. I'm an Ozzy so things might work a bit differently here. Both my parents got an oestoprosis diagnosis just a few years before my own. My mother in law's diagnosis precedes mine but I'm not sure by how much. Collectively they were told not to fall and try to stay mentally engaged, do resistance training and cut back on the grog, don't worry about it other things will kill you first. My father in law also died less than 20 months after a fall resulting in a hip fracture without being scanned or diagnosed for low bone density. I was offered more options than the lot of them put together. At best this might reflect differences in our individual circumstances or the knowledge and skill of our treating physicians. At worst there seems to be an acceptance that this is just part of the ageing process
@@threadfix thanks. As a fellow resident of brisvegas I will definitely follow this up. My GP is brilliant and has a keen interest in ageing well. I'm not 60 yet and feel like I have more options on the table than people I know with similar BMD who are 20yrs older. This is based on a small sample space so may not reflect the experience of others.
Thanks for your video guys. I have a question. Can osteopenia cause bone fractures or lesions from repetitive impact/stress (running, for example) on vertebrae?
I read that there was lower incidence of osteoporosis in the areas of Japan where natto was eaten, so I eat Natto everyday here in New Zealand! Started about two months ago and intend to stay on it for the rest of my life. It tastes terrible by itself, but I have it with a tsp of miso, a nub of grated cheeses and boiling water in a cup and it's not too bad. I am 66 yr female diagnosed with osteoporosis 4 months ago. I was on Fosamax for 3 months but decided to stop after researching the possibility of negative future outcomes. Other items in my dietary arsenal include marine collagen, D3, 7 prunes a day, chia seeds and ground almonds for extra calcium, and tumeric, ginger and black pepper liquid (Wildly brand)
@@alisonfoster4799 I make natto in an InstantPot, then split up the batch by putting it in mini muffin cups and freeze them. I eat 1 muffin cup full per day (about 1 tablespoon). To eat it, I put it in 1 cup of hot water, with 1 Tbs of miso and 2 Tbs of peanut butter. I kind of like it that way. I read a study once that showed that Vitamin K2, combined with Vitamin D, also has benefits for your brain.
My dear late mum had a hip fracture age 57 followed by a hip replacement due to osteoporosis. Hip proceeded to dislocate several times for the next 10 years which was nothing short of horrific. Then age 65 her second hip had to be replaced as it was diagnosed as "collapse risk". She first had to have her 1st hip redone so it could support a second hip replacement. 10 years later her knees needed replacing but she died before the NHS could do anything so she spent her last years in a wheelchair. If only they'd checked her bone density when she was 50 she could have done something.
The later screening ( 70 +) is to save money. They work on statistics. I had a bone density scan at 49 and paid for it myself. No problem at that time but it will be interesting to get a scan result now that I’m 70.
Should someone with under active thyroid continue taking vitamin D, as GP advised over the counter supplement due to blood results showing slightly lower vitamin D? Many thanks
Thanks for this, Id really appreciate some episodes on hypothyroidism as I take the Levothyroxine prescription that it seems vast numbers of the population too are prescribed. It doesnt help the symptoms much and the GPs only go by the blood test levels and leave the symptoms unfixed.
I too, am on Levothyroxine. I’ve been complaining to my GP about changes happening, including massive weight gain, but the blood tests were in range. After 18 months, the blood tests have caught up with my symptoms. I have the same problem with B12 levels. I’m not sure how accurate these ranges are as different countries use different range levels. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm 75. I've been doing resistance training 3 times a week for nearly 4 years now, which includes impact work. I also swim at least one a week, usually twice, but that's part of my cardio routine, along with walking. I do take vitamin D tablets having read some time ago that they could help with the bone pains I get in the winter, and they do help. I would like to know more about the statement that taking vitamin D could not be a good thing, even possibly increasing the chance of death. I feel that was mentioned without any real explanation.
Thank you, but: Now i am in total shock, because i am taking Calciferol ( vit D3 ), HRT, Mena cal 7. 'Had ALCLASTA injection, given by my Gp 3x already. I am now 62 years old. I am very active, running, walking, Pilates, weight training. ( Biokineticist ), exercise a lot, and do not smoke. I am not eating enough proteins, i think. Don't know what to do. Must i stop the Calciferol etc?
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I am an 82 year old male, diagnosed with Dexa scan in 2009. Did not take med but alkalized my diet, took Vitamin D and especially K2 MK7 ( it is this K2 MK7 that puts the calcium back into the bones D3 without K2 is pointless ). Over the following 2 years had another test and moved out of range and then two years later was about correct for my age. This is big business for the drug companies !! Diet and weight baring exercise is really important not drugs.
I am 64, was diagnosed with osteopenia 4 years ago following 2 fractures. I was prescribed Adcal (calcium and vitamin D). My follow up Dexa a month ago showed my condition has worsened. Yet I was advised to continue with Adcal. Alendronic acid tablets were also prescribed initially but caused severe discomfort and reduced flexibility in my joints after only a few weeks. I walk regularly, eat a well balanced diet so I'm struggling to know what else to do other than maybe weightbearing exercises.
@@DianneCoffeytake estradiol immediately! Out sex hormones keep our bones strong. Estradiol for women and testosterone for men. Men do t have the sudden cessation of estrogen that women do at menopause so they don’t lose bone quickly at 55. Eunuchs develop osteoporosis quickly. Eunuchs are castrated men. Men were castrated as slaves for the harem or for the opera. Go to your gynecologist and say that you have horrible life disrupting hot flashes and get on Hormone Replacement Therapy. It stops osteoporosis from progressing. It won’t replace what you’ve lost. Fosamax and such adds to bone density but not in the honeycomb structure that makes it strong. Of cou
The pharma companies making these make huge profits over prescribing esp in India where most of these drugs are made is big business!! My father aged 86 self medicates he did have a fracture and a knee replacement op.I think no scans or anything but has worked ie moved hard all his life still drives a manual car so is using his body parts dally I sense that for him is a big factor to his comparatively fitter lifestyle compared to his siblings abroad. He does no weight bearing exercises though perhaps he should he’s mistaken for 20 years younger at hospital appointments often they don’t believe his death of birth.
K2 seems to be essential when taking vitamin d
@@DianneCoffeywhen you take vitamin D3: make sure you are getting a high enough dose and also make sure to take vitamin k2 (the mk7 form) with it. (It is available to buy in this combination from many shops (Boots, Holland and Barrett etc)
i'm an 73 year old male and go to dance on Techno, House and Disco music during one, and sometimes two, nights per week in a dancing with all young people. I don't use drugs or alcohol and drink only water. I dance sometimes 3 to 4 hours intensively. Few weeks ago I stumbled in a street, and beside some minor cuts of the skin of some fingers, I had no other wounds. (As far as my diet, I am a pescotarian = vegetarian who eats fish.) I'm still healthy. I also do some long walks during the weekdays.
You have great taste in music! . I’m 45 and have kitchen raves all the time (due to having small kids) I hope to be out raving at 73 -you’re an inspiration 👏
I’m 56 and started pole dancing. I’m climbing, enjoying the young people in class, gaining strength and flexibility. Dancing is what I love to do.
"Vegetarian who eats fish", does that mean you eat dairy as well?
@@carinaekstrom1 I am Dutch and what would I be without cheese?
My eating habits are not an ideology.
When I worked in Hadhramaut (Yemen) in the 1990s, there was a food shortage there. Only the rich could buy enough food. Not the poor. I, as a development worker, had enough money. I gave some of that to the people I worked with. As a thank you, I was subsequently invited to eat with them several times. They then served chicken or goat meat. Who would I be to refuse that? With the little money they had they had finally been able to buy meat again and wanted to share their joy with me. If I had refused, they would not have understood it, they might have been offended, because vegetarianism is a luxury we can afford in the West, but in poor countries it is often the only food available.
In 2025 it will be fifty years since I stopped eating meat. When the fat bellies and bacon necks of the European Union and our government exert even more pressure to cut down on meat consumption, I will eat meat again in 2025!
Well done you.
So helpful. As a 66 year old lady with a diagnosis of osteoporosis a couple of years ago, I was prescribed Accrete as well as alendronic acid. The Accrete was really hard to do - two huge daily tablets requiring special timing food wise! This really impacted my digestion. On chatting with my enlightened GP she removed the Acrrete ( calling it concrete), changed that to one small Vit D per week and to get the calcium from my diet. What a huge difference that has made! The point is - keep questioning! I also bought a rebounder ( little trampoline) for 5 mins per day. Easier on the knees that jumping on the floor and great little cardio work out to start the day too. Thankyou.
I was v surprised that the benefits of rebounding/mini trampoline were not mentioned. These are actually used by NASA!
Great to hear from your experience, thanks very much
There is so much differing advice on exercise for osteoporosis.
Having gone through loads of RUclips videos of well qualified Doctors and osteopaths, the main exercises should be load bearing to create resistance. Bones grow when we create pressure upon them. Walking is ok, but doesn't really create enough pressure. Things like the bridge ( lying down , knees bent and raising your torso, which squeezing the buttocks), planking either against the wall or even half planks on the knees are the type of exercise advised.
Rebounding is fun, but won't create enough resistance. It makes sense, as if you stop pressurising them by being sedentary, this causes the problems mentioned on here.
@@carole3734 That is very helpful to know - thankyou. I suppose, like many things in life, the best benefit will come from getting a good variety of exercise types, taking account of the individual’s abilities and needs. Like the food rainbow, we need an exercise rainbow too!
Do u know what ur hip score was in dexa mine is -3.8 and I have lost height I am also taking alendronic acid vit cali-d and they want to put me on zoldronate infusions which I am very reluctant to do
I had two severe wedge fractures on my spine which lead to kyphosis
How long have you been on alendronic acid to see good results and do u take anything eles
I can’t do weight bearing exercises because I have very severe emphysema and struggle to breath
As a spine physician, most osteoporotic fractures occur with falls. So any discussion of osteoporosis needs to include, actually emphasize, fall prevention, for which resistance training is essential.
14:00 they did cover this.
Spot On!! 🏋🏽♀️💪🏽
Zoe do have a video about resistance training that also says that stronger muscles will increase bone density
That’s not true actually. Osteoporotic fractures are usually spontaneous, then the person falls.
I’m 76, never been on HRT, and had breast cancer surgery 2 years ago. At that time I also had a DXA scan to determine bone density because I was scheduled to begin treatment with anastrozole following the radiation therapy. At that time I had normal, even better than average bone density for my age. A couple of months ago, I had a repeat DXA scan which showed loss of bone density classified as osteopenia. Since my diet has only improved, I was a bit disappointed. I reread how anastrozole works. I also read several studies that showed that plant estrogens do not appear to feed estrogen-dependent cancers, though they do mimic estrogen in other ways. So I decided to increase intake of foods that contain plant estrogens, mostly in the form of tempeh and black soy beans. I’ve also increased resistance exercise. (I can now do 15 pushups without stopping - something I couldn’t do even 6 months ago - and 15 medium deep squats, which is 12 more than when I first started 6 weeks ago) I’m hoping that these interventions improve my results next year. Things you’ve said give me hope that it can improve.
All credit to you too for taking positive action and taking up strength training later in life 👍
💪
Awesome stay strong ❤
You go girl!! 🙌🏼
I've been taking collagen instead of calcium, which my doctor recommended. My body is much healthier since making that change.
We are getting sicker and older so I think that’s why more of us are seeking information to save ourselves in this toxic world. We must take our health in our own hands because the government and our doctors aren’t helping. Thanks for your channel.
Your health is your responsibility not the gov or doctors.
@@martinbolt5170 I disagree and I agree 😂, after I finished my cancer treatment, my GP was in charge of my health after my specialist,for the last 5 years I kept complaining seeking help for bones pain, muscle pain joint pain, tremor, and other side effect of the chemotherapy and hormone therapy, the GP has no clue and worse my referral has been declined without even seeing me, so I am so pissed off because I am suffering like hell but they are doing nothing
well said
@@martinbolt5170But it shouldn't be the govs responsibility to promote subsidize and turn a blind eye to fake and dead foods taking over every part of western society making us sick. Guidelines like the American food pyramid was corruptly designed by the grain industry and that's just one of countless examples.
Don't be ridiculous. It's not the government's fault. It's not the doctors' fault. We're getting sicker because we're getting older, and because we're getting fatter.
I have recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis. I found the comments based on people's experience were more useful than the podcast as you did not talk about actual foods and diet enough. Some daily menu or recipe suggestions would have been more helpful.
I wish this information could have been available at the time my early menopause took place 14 years ago - I was disgnosed with osteoporosis of the spine at the age of 51 and back at age 39 all the consultant said make sure you do exercise and have a lot of dairy in your diet. I am now on alendronic acid, and HRT (as per my request) and diet and lifestyle changes - after 3 years my bone density has improved by 11% which is a massive win!
where you get HRT from ? Please help.
I wish that I can do HRT but I have a family history of breast cancer. So can’t touch estrogen . Congrats, though!
@@MS-gi3hc It's absolutely false that you can't take HRT with family history of breast cancer. Keep searching until you find a competent doctor.
@@americanlife1799From a doctor. They prescribe it.
I tried Alendroniic acid. I had fuzzy episodes, and felt as if i was losing my cognition. I went to my GP who thought id had a stroke and sent me to A&E. They did all sorts of tests and told me that they could find nothing wrong but a slught lack of salt levels. They told me to stop the Alendronic acid and see how i went. My cognition came back. Thank goodness.
Thank you Jonathan for specifically asking to clarify that weightlifting is not necessarily the same as weight bearing exercises, since it seems to me that that distinction is often blurred.
However, there was not much talk about what to eat, which is what the titled seemed to indicate as the topic.
I have yet to watch the full video. I am just browsing quickly through the comments to get a gist of what's being addressed...so thanks for pointing that out. I don't think you'll get an honest answer from ZOE about what to eat to prevent osteoporosis if that hasn't been mentioned in this video. If they do, you can be almost certain (i'd be surprised if not) that it will mostly exclude anything animal based. I am an experienced clinical/research scientist myself for context and have challenged ZOE in the comment section a fair bit and have yet to receive a response on any of their videos. They will give "hearts" to any pro-plant based comment but ignore anything that challenges the information they provide.
ZOE won't always give you clear advice on what to eat with regards to certain things partly due to the fact that they are unfortunately a heavily biased pro plant-based channel in spite of the fact that unbiased science does not always support their position. They manipulate a lot of "half truths" to their tune. They won't necessarily commit themselves in certain areas they KNOW might be slippery for them. From my experience and that of many other experts in their fields, channels like ZOE, Mutritionfacts.org, Nutrition Made Simple, Plantchompers, Mic the vegan etc. have more to do with "ideology, religious/personal beliefs" rather than "unbiased science" (nothing against beliefs as a spiritual person myself). They will cherry pick the "science" that fits their narrative and discard anything that challenges it. I have clearly demonstrated that on some of their videos and many other world renowned experts have done the same (I remember there was one about vegetable oils on ZOE and another on Saturated fat on "Nutrition made simple" among others here and on those other channels..I can't list all the titles I've commented on right this moment). You might look them up if they haven't been removed.
I'd venture to say that Tim Spector and Gil Carvalho and Christopher Gardner have a more balanced approach in all fairness compared to the likes of Dr.Greger, Dr. Barnard or Dr.McDougall for e.g. from the past videos I have watched although I have reviewed other videos from the 3 aforementioned that clearly indicate their plant-based bias as well. The Neftlix nonsense that Christopher Gardner was part of is proof of that. (the twin experiment). Any real expert can pluck out the flaws in that so called "study" that was "designed" to demonstrate a pro plant-based outcome and promote the plant-based business (see other channels that dissected it). Pure nonsense and absolutely irresponsible of you ask me.
In my opinion, if you want to be exposed to UNBIASED health information and the latest scientific findings as well as the paradigm shifts taking place on the world of clinical/medical science, you stand a much better chance finding that on channels such as the following:
The Metabolic Mind, Metabolic Health Summit, InsulinIQ, Public Health Collaboration, Low Carb Down Under, Low Carb Conferences, among others. If you are purely plants based, you won't like it over there but that's where information that is as close as possible to the truth lies in my expert opinion. I hope that helps.
The FLCCC Alliance is another science based, observational based wirh top Doctors and researchers. They provide unbiased health information.
The comments are more formative than the talk. Thank you to all of you who responded with your own experience and actions you took. Brilliant!
Please provide a citation for the danger of vitamin D3 supplementation, especially in patients with osteoporosis or osteopenia. The only citation provided in the comments studied African schoolchildren and seems to only show that no benefit was found rather than that any harm may be done. The other citation studied pregnant women and did find a benefit (preliminary, it seems) for the children of those women at age 4 years.
The preponderance of the evidence I've seen shows that D3 supplementation is totally safe at reasonable levels (up to about 5000 IU per day but with no need for more than about 1000 IU per day for the vast majority of people). The purpose of D3 supplementation is to hedge one's bets against D3 deficiency, which while not overwhelmingly prevalent, has rates estimated at 15% globally and over 40% in some countries. Further, sunscreen prevents D3 absorption but is extremely important for skin cancer prevention.
Dismissing D3 supplementation with vague reference to unnamed studies is not prudent. Given the benefits and safety of D3 supplementation (not to mention D3 supplements being very affordable), a serious, rigorous explanation needs to be provided for a counter to be taken seriously.
My endocrinologist told me thare was a bell-shaped curve in the efficacy of supplementation with vitamin D3. That means if you take too high a dose it would not be beneficial for preventing fractures. Yet every time she told me to lower the dose I got the flu in the summer and Covid 19 (once) in winter. I have not been able to receive any vaccination since 1970s due to many allergies and reactions to chemical compounds.
My vitamin D level remains in the optimal range yet with the same dosage as I age my level has been going down. Therefore I just adjust my dosage myself (I am in the medical profession) and I take vitamin D3 with K2, supplementing with Mg and other trace elements. I have been on Vitamin D3 for 2 decades (no calcium supplement only dietary sources) but continue to have poor bone density (dietary, habit and ethnicity reasons) and have fractured my tib and fib 10 years ago for missing a step. My bones healed very well, no loss of function.
Instead of taking biphosphates (as I am well aware of their adverse effects) I started taking strontium citrate instead for bone strength (not density) but I need to persevere doing exercises. It seems to work fairly well - I have had two accidents the past 3 years - fell on my hip and had head injury but I have been fine. I had covid 19 and I just had fatigue for one day (my vitamin D level surely helped). Basically I just let my body dictates what I need, health professionals serve as advisors but we have to manage our own health - each person has different response to illness. As a long term health professional I have learned that experts often learn from their mistakes added to their wealth of experience; patients are the best teachers.
D3 with K2-7 is especially effective, and additionally improves immune system and helps calcium go into bones rather than gluing to our blood vessel walls
I agree. Prof Cooper's dismissal is typical of experts. My logic is simple. It is more likely, although not a guarantee, that the way something has been designed is correct. For example, I would first assume that my car engine manual specified the correct engine oil type and the correct amount. I would not just use half the amount of say olive oil just because I thought I knew better than the engine designer - until I was proven to be correct. Similarly, as a starting point, I would first assume that Mother Nature's design by evolution over millions of years is likely to be correct. I would follow Mother Nature until I was proven wrong. i.e. Vit D levels 125-175 nmol/l for a human being living in the environment in which it evolved. I would not wait for an expert to prove that Mother Nature was correct before I supplemented Vit D to reach this level. I know from several blood tests that it is impossible to reach and maintain 125-175 nmol/l without many times the supplementation levels advised by the NHS experts. I am a 67 year old white male in England.
Links are added to the description
My understanding is that Vitamin D3 should be taken with Vitamin K2 MK7 for the better absorption of calcium to where it is needed vs to your soft tissue.
Why aren't you talking about prevention and natural diet related remedies? Such as Protein and Resistance Bands, meds cause serious side effects.
I'm amazed sending away 50 year olds because they have a low FRAX score. That is the VERY time we need direction re diet and exercise. I was not told in 2022 I had osteporosis, presumably because my FRAX was low and I didn't need meds. Fast forward to now and I have 3 fractures T7, 5 and 3 because I wasn't picking things up correctly. Now I have a mountain to climb to get well.
In the West most of the studies are sponsored or they get grants from some of the companies that manufacture these drugs. Everything is about profit $$$$ these days, even wars.
they didn’t talk about the remedy? I am 16 mins into the talk but most useless facts which we mostly know already. We don’t need to be convinced that it exists. We need to know how to prevent it in real life not just go to a doc and get some meds which would be the last step.
Because there is no money in it
He did mention protein when talking about milk. I’m all for natural approaches .
Osteoporosis is a depletion of estrogen so we need to replenish our levels of HRT! This really worked me plus diet and weight bearings exercises.
Sorry, I meant to write replenish our estrogen.
It is in women yes. Most cases in males, especially younger males, is due to gut inflammation/ digestion issues
I am not so sure about that. There are many other ways to help our bones. Our natural oestogen levels will fall and I dont want to fight that artificially. (Possibly stone-age folk would be dead before menopause! But thats another discussion)
@@helenswan705 whilst I do agree with you about fighting it naturally, the link with oestrogen reduction is undeniable. It’s particularly important for women who go through early menopause. Hence why men only get it at much lower rates. It needs to be assessed on a case by case basis to see if HRT is the solution but you can only do so much with diet and exercise.
Yes, when he says it’s not caused by the menopause, he’s wrong. It is caused by menopause, like so many other health issues such as blood sugar disregulation and cardiovascular disease - we can mitigate the negative effects to some extent, but there’s a limit what we can achieve with just healthy food and lifestyle if there’s a key element (oestrogen) missing!
Side effects of bone meds were glossed over - almost dismissed. Apart from ONJ, eg there was no mention of spontaneous vertebral fractures after the discontinuation of denosumab. Once you start on bone meds, it's a lifelong commitment.
My research has indicated the strong likelihood of necrosis of the jaw and reports from patients about this occurrence are so horrific I cannot imagine these meds are not banned.
@@ld3418 I think you'll find that the incidence of ONJ among patients treated for osteoporosis is extremely low. The vast majority of cases occur in patients who are given much higher intravenous bisphosphonate doses as part of cancer treatment.
Why no mention of the view that Calcium intake, whether in food or by supplementation, needs Magnesium to work correctly in the body, also that VitK2 is also said to be essential to metabolise calcium and make D2 work to deposit calcium in the bone structure.
And boron as well. I read about a study where there was positive help to be had by using prunes for boron. 4 a day. I also grind up eggshells because they have lots of minerals as well as calcium. Also the film under the shell is made of collagen so include that as well.
I agree. That is the focus on other channels. So I find this confusing.
Yes they didn't mention that did they
It was quite a lame discussion in my opinion. Sounds like a discussion I would hear 25 years ago.
I really value Zoe podcasts, but was a bit disappointed that in the quick fire round, Professor Cyrus Cooper answered a resounding YES! to the question can osteoporosis be reversed? but this was not picked up or fleshed out in the podcast, ummmmmm it seems relevant. If you're hosting health podcasts, please focus on three things, 1. what your risk factors are - 2. what to do to prevent - and 3. what to do if you've got it ! There's also some controversy regarding the bisphosphonate drugs that I also would have liked Zoe to give a little attention to.
I agree . Disappointing interview.
Good point. Probably one of the most important things he could’ve talked about. Instead, it seemed more a subtle argument about milk vs vegan sources.
Exactly! These biophosphonates actually INCREASE fracture risks!! Ask your pharmacist for the literature that comes with these drugs or research it. These drugs are dangerous! Seriously!
I don't think they really believe it can be reversed.
I agree
Another factor more recently discovered is that bone density in itself is no necessarily the major factor, but bone quality and tensile strength. Drugs have been found to make bone stiffer, and less resilient to trauma, as reducing resorption leads to older bone. I am surprised to read that drugs can reduce fracture risk up to 50 percent. Two people I know who have osteoporosis are very active vegetarians! Would like to have heard the views on the value of protein and how much is required in prevention and treatment. Thank you for addressing this important but often neglected condition.
😅😅
😊
You get so many views, because you get the right experts to come on the show, and the format is great. Thank you!
I have osteoporosis at 72 and find this program is extremely helpful. My doctor extremely helpful and is starting my 6 monthly injections today. Exercise and diet is helping.
What do you mean by injection
I find Tim’s reiterations helpful as he is just reinforcing what the expert has said, and in a simplified way, which helps more people understand the details. It’s a re-capping rather than an ego boosting I think.
Agreed, but it would be nice if they let each other finish their sentences.
Appreciate the discussion but feel it’s more complicated than this. I’ve done everything as suggested, but still have osteoporosis. Since introducing Vit K2 I’ve managed to stop bone loss, and now to increase bone density, I’m doing a specific weight lifting programme called Onero that is backed by research. It’s impossible to keep taking oestrogen as you age. Skipping and excellent diet was not enough either. Sarcopenia and bone loss seem to go hand in hand. I’ve also been reading up on some specific strains in the microbiome that improve osteoporosis. Also some studies show that some of the drugs prescribed may not actually prevent fracture
. My mother suffered terrible from necrosis of the jaw after taking Bisphosphonates.
Have you considered using vaginal HRT cream as an alternative to systemic HRT.
@@yvonne3903 I use Serenity by Wellsprings. Have used since my menopause and am still using it at 63. I use the 20-1 cream: 20 of progesterone to 1 of oestrogen. the Wellsprings website is wonderful. Really recommend it. You can email for advice and will get a response from a doctor by email.
Please can you tell me what effects this has on the body?
@@yvonne3903that won't do anything for bones. She didn't say why she had to stop HRT. Maybe she just thinks there's a rule that you have to.
I am drug free , use a LIV plate, lift weights ,run on treadmill, walk a lot ,eat healthily , squats ion a power plate &I LOVE the channel 'Improved heath' workouts on RUclips, really useful workouts
(I do drink wine!!!! life is for living)
Great episode, as always. I was surprised there was no mention of Vit K2 supplementation. Anyone have thoughts on K2:and osteoporosis?
I take vit K2 because I learnt it helps to take the calcium into the bones
Unfortunately it takes time for medical profession to catch up. I have osteoporosis and taken vitamin D3 and K2 plus some other minerals for almost 15 years and plus exercise and Mediterranean diet.
Dr Pradip Jamnadas (world rebound cardiologist) is always going on about K2 and the link between just taking calcium and heart events.
I take vit D and K2 for my osteoporosis.
When I broke my collar bone and discovered I had osteopenia, while investigating the topic I learnt about the supposed importance of vit K2 and "desperately" searched for it. I now take 100 mcg or 125 mcg daily as well as around 3000 ui of vit D.
Thanks for this Zoe! Im in my senior years and have eaten a Vegan diet for 5years and Vegetarian for 30years. I have cut out UPF totally now and feel amazing. I cook everything from raw natural foods. I supplement with vitamin D and take vegan omega 3. I walk 4-6 miles a day in the park and do weights training and bike 5 days a week. I shall be adding skipping and some star jumps to my regime! Great advice chaps ❤💚
UPF
I started skipping recently and my neighbour who has a sports background to stop, as it was bad for my joints.
@@janecinaj5732Ultra Processed Foods.
How old are you?
You're almost certainly protein deficient. And please tell me you're talking the correct form of B1, in the correct dose, daily?
I’m mid 60’s. I broke my arm in 2011 after tripping over something in the garden. As I was just post menopausal I had a DEXA scan (though had to wait over a year!) & was told my bone density was lower than optimal for my age - osteopenia - & given Adcal which I didn’t take for long! Surprised no one mentioned osteopenia in this podcast. A repeat DEXA in 2019 showed little change, no better but no worse. I eat a varied diet including meat & chicken (not very Zoe friendly!!) eggs, fish & dairy plus nuts, seeds & certain fruit & veg but as I live in north of UK I supplement with VitD & K2. I have no plans to ditch this as Vit D is vital for so many aspects of health. I’ve never taken HRT but sometimes wish I had! I’m not on any medication & wouldn’t be keen to take drugs. I was hoping to have some specific foods mentioned as the title suggested. Overall I was a bit underwhelmed with this podcast.
Sardines very good for calcium.
@@Tuber80and vitamin D!
You can probably still start HRT now. You just need to find a competent doctor.
Is there any response from the panellists regarding the results of eating prunes following evidence of astronauts bone density improving from eating prunes?
Please take care when suggesting weight bearing activity is always helpful - I had significant osteoporosis after cancer treatment and chemical menopause and fractured a vertebrae trampolining. I now weight bear a lot through hiking long distances, but skipping and trampolining would have been damaging early on.
That was most probably as a side-effect of the chemo you were on! Chemo destroys many normal body functions. Not much is mentioned in the media about this as it's a huge Phrama business.
It depends on how you "trampoline". If you go mad doing leaping and somersaulting of course you are going to damage something. But easy rocking is of benefit to everyone. Do not discourage others.
The title is misleading. This video didn't say what to eat to avoid osteoporosis other than saying eat a quality diet. Kinda clickbaity.
Thanks to other commenters for saving me an hour of valuable time. It is so frustrating to not get the info implied by
title of vid!!!
I hate it when titles mislead. They loose credibility for me.
It's supposed to be about science and nutrition and they could cover this topic in 15 minutes. Over an hour about egos. Insufferable.
So where is the “information” on nutrition to help the bones? All they do is talk about everything else and not get to the point of the main topic of this program!!
Thanks for the heads up👍
Vitamin D @ 25 min: I live in Florida and in my early 60s (70 now) I started testing D3. Was below 30 ng/ml which is low end of ref range. I live in Florida but have been an office worker but walk 5 miles a day outside. Went through a couple of years testing, adding near full body sun exposure 10 to 15 minutes a day, and adjusting supplement levels. Finaly settled on about 4000 IU per day to keep my in the 40 to 50 ng/ml, slowly transitioning from 1000 IU per day My point is that sun alone may not cut it, and to test. Look at the full range of research on D. I had previously took the lead from researchers like Michael Hollick, but will look into the researcher of Cyrus Cooper. BTW, I don't take D3 for bone health as it seems to have pleotropic effects. I eat a Zoe like diet and walk a lot giving my skeleton plenty of moderate stress. Zoe, please get a second opinion on D3 and over health effects, not just on bones.
I’m in the U.K. Started Vit D in 2020, 4000IU in winter plus midday sun most days from April to September.
I started testing in Sept 23 and a month ago in March 24. Sept 23 was only 30ng/L so like you but after 3 years of work so I must’ve been really low in 2020 (I’m 60 and outside a lot so surprising). And was 34ng/L in March 24. Slow going. So I upped my dose to 8000IU plus K2 through summer (wasn’t dosing in summer before then) plus usual midday sunning. I’ll test same dates this year and next, which correspond to beginning and end of the sunbathing possibility in U.K. and that way I can distill out effects of summer sun and winter dosing with no sun on blood level.
I hope to get to 50ng/L which is the level at which studies said Vit D is highly protective against COVID hospitalisation. I’m not afraid of covid but that study was a good indication of optimal levels. Some say there isn’t a flu season, just a low Vit D season.
Zoe is sponsored, in part, by Big Pharma so will gloss over D 3 benefits and the potential cost saving if we were all D3 sufficient. I would like to see the studies they mentioned! After all Covid vaccine companies said their jab was safe and effective! Yet statisticians have said the only benefit, after examining the trial results, ignoring the side effects, was placebo. I have read Michael Holick’s book ‘The Vitamin D solution’.
I live in Australia with an abundance of fresh food, sunlight and an active lifestyle. I’ve always cooked food from scratch for my family, taught my children to be mindful of their diets, do sport, avoid junk food, sugar and processed foods etc. As a family we eat for metabolic health and a happy microbiome. At 68 I still work part time and go to the gym (mobility and resistance) 3 times per week. My question is: How, when I’ve done all the things recommended in this podcast all my life, these steps didn’t prevent osteoporosis so how are they going to fix it?
Same, I'm almost 60 and have osteopenia. But at least I found out before I broken anything.
Wow there is so much conflicting information regarding osteoporosis.
Do you use sunscreen?
@@yvonne3903 Everyday, but I have a lot of skin damage from a misspent youth at the beach. Honestly, you don't even need to go outside to tan where I live (SW of Western Australia), the reflected sun does the job. My 83yo mother is severely vitamin D deficient and tomorrow I'm taking her to get her skin cancers burned off and surgically removed. So, we are very confused by the conflicting info and experiences =/
@@jocelyncleghorn3510 Do you use seed oils? I live in England and don't go outside and my vitamin D levels are fine.
There is growing interest in understanding the interaction between medications like bisphosphonates and the gut microbiome, the current body of research is still developing. As the importance of the microbiome in health and disease continues to be recognized, it is likely that this area will receive more attention, leading to better-informed use of bisphosphonates and improved management of their side effects.
Current Understanding
Gut Absorption and Effects: Bisphosphonates are known to have gastrointestinal side effects, such as irritation of the esophagus and stomach, which are among the most common reasons patients might discontinue their use. The mechanism involves the drug's direct action on the gastrointestinal lining, which can lead to inflammation.
Impact on Microbiome: The direct impact of bisphosphonates on the gut microbiome is less clear. The medication could potentially affect the microbiome indirectly through changes in gut pH, alterations in the mucosal barrier, or immune modulation. However, detailed studies specifically examining these effects are sparse.
Implications of Microbiome Changes: Any changes to the gut microbiome that might be induced by bisphosphonates could have broader implications for health. The microbiome is involved in numerous processes, including nutrient absorption, immune system function, and even the modulation of inflammation throughout the body.
This was very helpful. I had just begun investigating the liftmor study. I'd always done small weight lifting during aerobic classes but it obviously wasn't enough. I now have osteoporosis and my first compression fracture.
I was surprised the liftmor trial wasn't mentioned or vibration plates.
The Onero program has positive results. Refer The Bone Clinic and Professor Belinda Beck
What if someone has knee issues that preclude jumping up and down, skipping or running?
Climbing stairs might help, do it at a pace that suits you
I have not listened to a Zoe RUclips video for a considerable length of time. The content is clearly very important, but the delivery was not orientated to everyday people. This episode is much better. I too am a vitamin D taker and have told every person amongst my friend that they should be taking it so I was most concerned to learn that this is not regarded as good practice.
"Vitamin D Good or Bad", would be a great topic for another broadcast. I have only one friend who is a professor (I have lots of friends but only one is a professor) and he thought it was a good idea to take it, so I would be interested for Zoe to explore this topic.
I don't make good amounts of vitamin D from sunlight on the skin. Supplements are essential for me.
I am curious about what type of vitamin D was used in the study and whether they used vitamin k2 with it. Vitamin D3 is better and k2 is necessary for it to be absorbed.
It's just shocking to break bones! I broke 7 bones this year...5 at one time during a fall. I'm 74. Very active and very healthy. Take no medications and everyone is always surprised at my age. After my fall, and a hospital stay and rehab I wanted to find out why I had so many fractures. I went to a place that does the scan and they sent results to my Dr. He called me and said I have stage 4 osteoporosis. You could have hit me with a brick! How did I get this???? There are no osteoporosis experts in my town, and most regular Dr's are not schooled in it. They just know the basics. I am never "sick" and asked my Dr how could this happen? He said the standard of care suggests that women don't get a dexa scan till they are 70, which we did not do. Well....I've had this for years!. I see him once a year, and he always brags about how healthy I am! He recommended a popular drug for me, and after research, this drug can cause fractures after 5 years. I said no. So I am trying to keep up weight bearing exercises and a good diet. I must say, breaking another bone is on my mind all the time. I really have no pain, but my hips and spine kind of ache sometimes. So folks, stay on top of this. Just because you look good, feel good and live a healthy life, doesn't mean that on the inside of you, your bones are telling a different story. Faith in God!
Ahhh man! So sorry to hear about your fractures! You're so right about taking ownership over our bones. If you haven't already found this channel you might find resources and information on RUclips channel The Dr Doug Show | Bones, Hormones and HealthSpan to be very helpful. I really do. I'm 67, very active, healthy and thin and recently received a diagnosis of osteoporosis. I am immersing myself in factual information and am optimistic about being able to make positive changes to my bone health. Right off I knew my diet was lacking in protein so immediately I upped that along with increasing impact to bones like heel drops and supervised weight training along with keeping up with my daily living activities such as carrying grand kids, luggage, firewood., groceries etc.. All the best to you!
@@JL-fn6ne Thanks for your info. Osteoporosis is not for the faint of heart! Continued good success in your journey for better bone health too!
Potential negative effects of bisphosphonates on trabecular bone:
There is some evidence to suggest that long-term use of these drugs may have adverse effects on bone quality and strength.
Some studies have suggested that prolonged use of bisphosphonates may lead to oversuppression of bone turnover, resulting in an accumulation of microdamage and a decrease in bone quality. This could potentially increase the risk of certain types of fractures, particularly atypical femur fractures.
Additionally, there is evidence that bisphosphonates may have different effects on trabecular and cortical bone. While they may increase bone mineral density in the cortical bone, some studies have suggested that they may not have the same beneficial effects on trabecular bone, which is more metabolically active and plays a crucial role in maintaining bone strength.
You're almost right. However, your third sentence contradicts the rest of your comment. Atypical femoral fractures are fractures of the femoral shaft, which is exclusively cortical bone. This was initially discovered in long-term follow up of patients treated with alendronate. Far from having a negative effect on trabecular bone, antiresorptives have a preferential benefit on trabecular bone precisely because there is more active turnover. Bone quality can be compromised if antiresorptives are used for more than a few years, which is why that is no longer recommended. However, the benefit for bone density far outweighs the disadvantage in bone quality when only used for a couple of years.
It is surprising that no mention was made of magnesium or of Vitamin K-2, which keeps calcium in the bones, where it belongs.
Diagnosed with osteoporosis 22 years ago at age 61. Fosamax for 5 1/2 years with no increase in bone density and then supplemented with "D" and substantial increase in bone density, spine increased from -3.2 to -2.4 at age 83. Everything said today is the exact opposite from my actual experience. I am not going deny my actual experience and try drugs again.
Obviously they are very wise, but I think this needs to be edited as it’s quite dangerous in its approach. They have summarised everything based on “averages”. A key thing with osteoporosis, especially the earlier onset types is to identify why you have got it. That can be due to being coeliac or thyroid problems but you have to start with that and so much of the right things to do follow on from that.
So true. Identifying the root cause is the number one priority. Mine was coeliac
Absolutely! I still don't know the root cause of my diagnosis and am not taking any meds (at the moment... they scare me, quite frankly)
With no mention of K2 MK7 I find it difficult to think this is good advice with regard to Vit. D and calcium. A little disappointing from Zoe.
Because the studies on K2 aren’t supporting thesis. I started taking K2 supplement despite no evidence to help bone density in hope in the new studies will emerge in the future. Was taking K2 about 10 years ago due to hype but stoped as didn’t want to waiste money on smth without proof. Now postmenopausal, have no choice but do everything in my power to prevent osteoporosis. Have been slim my entire life and it’s a risk factor. I do weight bearing exercises ,high protein and high calcium diet and correct supplementation.
Noted.In 65 years no one gets it dead on so I take from everyone and do not expect any one entity to get it all. I do aprreciate getting the facts from studies and information on the deleterious effects of the predominant drugs being peddled, like necrosis of the jaw. Have taken D3 and K2 for years with no effect on my Dexa scan so still searching for what to add/delete for improvement.
I'm also wondering about K2. It supposedly takes the calcium out of the blood and puts it into your bones. A pity they didn't discuss this. 😢
@@ija04. But there are 3 Major studies on Vit K 2. [MENAQUINONE];
👉THE Rotterdam study that was completed in 2017;
following 4,000 people for 10 years!
you call that no evidence bone density was increased at 8% versus 3% with all the risks with your by phosphates hideous hideous chance of having necrosis of your job bone are you kidding me?
The other studies were called the epic in Japan or Europe, but there was another study in Europe, all of them surpassing any pharmaceutical toxin .
I just came across this podcast ... I am a female and will be 66 at the end of June. Back in April, I had a DEXA Scan that said I had a 6.8% decrease in bone density since 2020. In 2020 when I had a bone density test, I had an increased my bone density, and was told to continue doing what I have been doing. So I that is what I have been doing.
I have an annual Dr appointment in December (the end of December) and he doesn't even want to see me until then, to talk about it.
I am a person that is very active. I walk 5 or more miles a day, I do weight training exercises as well as balance, abs, stretching ... etc.
Since he doesn't want to see me, I am doing my own research and found out that there are certain foods, supplements and exercises that I should or should not be doing. So I am working on that right now.
Is there anything you can offer up to me that I can work on until my next Dr appointment, which like I said above is not until December (the end of December). Also, do you think I should find another Dr that would at least care a little bit about how worried I am about this T-Score of -2.1?
Thank you for any help you can offer me. 🙂
Are you on HRT? Unless you have a real contraindication, you should be. And an adequate dose for bones, none of the low dose nonsense.
my t score
z-2.6
please u take which medicine
u infusion
I’m wondering about bone tapping used in qigong. Any benefits the?
I now take tablets to prevent my bones crumbling.
i was discovered to have a tumour on my parathyroid( due to high calcium in my blood tests) and had an operation to remove it 6 months before covid struck.
I was told the operation would stop my bones crumbling. I discovered that Lithium which I had been prescribed and taken for 25years following a psychotic episode that presented after the birth of our second child.
I took myself off it very slowly when i was 60 as I discovered that for 5 years my lithium levels had been below therapeutic dose.
I did not know of its relationship with low bone density at the time.
I did not know what to eat for good bone health. THANK YOU ZOE
Very informative but also confusing. I specifically refer to the comments about vitamin D and that the advice from governments is wrong. However, governments will only give such advice on the basis of medical/scientific advice received. I have also read reports on recent substantive studies on vitamin D supplementation that conclude the exact opposite, i.e. that levels advocated by governments is too low and that significantly higher levels of vitamin d combined with K2 provide benefits to general health and specifically to improved immunity. Not for the first time we are being subjected to conflicting advice by medical & scientific professionals.
It's always better to go with the scientific evidence. Medics don't have the time AND they have to stick to official guidance and protocols, UNLESS you, the patient, insist otherwise (in which case they cannot be sued).
Yes, I’ve even heard some health professionals saying that we should take 5000 mg of D a day. (With Vitamin K.) I agree that on so many aspects of diet, nutrition and supplements , there are a great many conflicting opinions and studies. The biggest debate on the net atm is between the mainly plant based advocates (like Zoe) versus advocates of the low carb/high fat, ketogenic and carnivore diets.
I think the nutritional value of plants these days must be questionable given that most of them are now grown on non organic , non biodynamic and overfarmed soils that are only fed with minimum artificial fertiliser inputs.
It is imperative to see WHO funded any research. Most of the drugs out there have had their "research" funded by the very drug companies who are selling them! The big pharma companies then "present" the research for approval by the FDA, who does NOT do any investigation or studies of their own. They basically rubber stamp the drugs!!
Many of these drugs have research that has been manipulated to "show" what they want it to show (therefore to get it "approved" by the FDA) and humanity are really the guinea pigs.
This is why you see the history of a very popular drug ... For example (and there are a few of these stories with famous drugs you would recognize that have been removed off the market) that they marketed, sold for 20 years, made BILLIONS, and then FINALLY, there was enough evidence to directly connect that drug to some bad effects (like DEATH etc)... Then they take it off the market. They may have to pay out some lawsuits but our government passed a law 25ish years ago that the cap on lawsuit payments to victims by the pharmaceutical companies is only $250,000. (And that's only is you can PROVE it! And many doctors don't want to ever even write in your medical records that it's a "possibility" that a drug may have adversely affected you because they don't want to get on the bad side of big pharma)
So! The drug companies don't care..... They made their billions. So what if they have to pay out millions. So what if unknown numbers of people died....? THEY DON'T CARE. They just continue to create NEW drugs to do this with.
Everyone should do in depth research on the bone drugs.
Watch the RUclips documentary by a French journalist called "Selling Sickness"..... There is an entire section on the bone drug Fossamax.... (In the 2nd half of the video but it's ALL worth watching) Eye opening and everyone should watch it BEFORE they EVER take a bone drug. (I have my own story to tell if anyone asks).
@@mkkrupp2462absolutely agree with you. Unfertilised soil on which they grow plants, mono crops , name it…
Hey ZOE was there ever an update on Jonathan’s microbiome tests after recovering from antibiotics? I remember he promised an update but maybe I missed it?
At 80 I was put on Calci D tablets. No tests were done at the time but had to get a blood test to get Alendronic injections. This showed my calcium level was higher than it should be so I was taken off them. I know many ladies who are advised to take these without any checks on their actual levels.
Also if it was calcium carbonate that you were prescribed, which is the norm, they are antacids and stop your gut absorbing nutrients. My gran used to have a packet of TUMS in her pocket for acid, TUMS are calcium carbonate.
I expected a bit more from this illustrious panel. They only mentioned 2 (Ca, D) of the 4 'musketeers' needed to fill 'the hole in the road':
without Mg and especially vitamin K2 how would calcium get incorporated into the bones? Also, an opportunity lost for not informing us that even teenagers who drink lots of carbonated soft drinks already have osteoporosis, because the carbonation blocks mineral absorption.
Not the carbonation, the phosphates are preventing Calcium to be deposited in the bone.
@@UlrikeFieglein Thank you for pointing out my having been been not clear enough, Ulrike. Of course, you are right! I should have mentioned that carbonated drinks (Lemonades) get phosphates added, as the 'bubbles' are no problem. Duh! Vitamin D regelt u.a. die Aufnahme von Phosphor. Umgekehrt reguliert Phosphor auch die Umwandlung des Vitamin D zu seiner wirksamen Form. Ein hoher Phosphor-Spiegel regelt das Vitamin-D-Hormon herunter, wodurch weniger Calcium aufgenommen wird. Der Körper löst dann Calcium aus den Knochen, was zu Osteoporose führen kann. Zu viel Phosphor führt durch eine gestörte Calcium-Verwertung auch zur Verkalkung von Muskeln und Arterien, was ein zusaetzliches Gesundheitsrisiko darstellt.
@pietrocantuccini5584 Das ist absolut der Fall. Danke für die Richtigstellung.
Die dunklen Soda Sorten wie zB. Cola, Dr.Pepper, Rootbeer haben Phosphate als Zusatz. Die klaren Sorten wie zB. Sprite haben keine Phosphate. Aber natürlich ist dann wieder die Zuckerkonzentration unglaublich in allen. Ganz zu schweigen vom Zusatz von High Fructose Corn Syrup in den USA.
My mother was on Fosomax for 7-8 years. She took it religiously every week then walk everyday for miles.
One day fell on a sidewalk and broke her shaft of her femur in half. She had gone through surgery very successfully, but as you said she died of C-Diff in the rehab setting in california.
Fosomax increases femur fractures as it makes bone more dense by reducing the speed of bone absorption so bones become more brittle . Normally bone has to be absorbed and new bone created . This is why these medications are less prescribed now . Weights and resistance bands are a better way to go
Women in my family suffered with osteoporosis despite being farmers with high quality home grown and cooked food and lifelong weight bearing exercise.
Yes I know of people in this category. There must be other factors
Do you eat cheese and meat everyday?
My husband was on an IV Bisphosphonate for his bone cancer and he ended up with osteonecrosis of his jaw after he developed a dental abscess. It was the worst thing he ever went through and it lasted for several years before he passed. It is true in the US that there are dentists who will not treat you for even a cavity in your mouth if you take even one of those pills because even one tablet can cause osteonecrosis. I didn't really find this discussion to be very helpful unfortunately.
My granny was in her 80s when she fell and fracture her hips. She was bed-ridden and eventually passed on due to infection. I am now going through menopause and trying to do everything I can to maintain my musculoskeletal health.
I am waiting for a full hip operation and I also have Stenosis in the lumbar spine and apparently Osteoporosis. I get a lot of lumbar pain when walking and was wondering if it would be too risky concerning fractures, to do weight bearing exercises or if it may be safe ? . I don’t want to start jumping around and cause a fracture! Can you advise please?
Really interesting podcast. My mum has just been diagnosed with osteoporosis after 2x fractures to her spine and I immediately ran off to look at additional supplements. I shall do a rethink and use the knowledge I gained through Zoe to be a bit more thoughtful about what I eat. Thanks x
Once of the most interesting and educational pop casts you have done . Thank you
I was told not to expose my skin to sunlight because I have skin cancer. I wish you had talked about that. I really enjoyed this episode! Thank you!
If only we could get an appointment with our GP.
In your dreams......
Precisely!!!
Our Medicare is seriously Broken.
Unless you live in a capital city, forget access to medical care and even though I return to said city and prior Dr. , it is still a nightmare.
This was a fascinating episode and always appreciative of the podcasts that Zoe puts out. Agree that we are perhaps over-supplementing with the Calcium. Some Drs here in the US are starting to ratchet down on the daily recommended intake of Ca. Would love to see another podcast on this subject with a deeper dive on foods that can help prevent osteoporois especially for people who are perimenopausal/early stage menopause/osteopenic. Catching things early by altering diet and treating with hormones and possibly dietary supplements before one becomes full-blown osteoporotic would seem to be prudent. For example, there are studies in Japan which suggest that Natto and its vitamin K properties would be beneficial. Perhaps, get the view point of a functional medicine doctor on this topic?
This Interview was an eye-opener for me, a menopausal woman with breast cancer and then osteoporosis and to hear the doctors talking about calcium vitamin D filled in a few blanks for me that my doctors did not and could not because of their so called standards of care. Thank you!
48:00 What to eat. Diverse unprocessed foods. Espec lots of Vegetables (countless minerals).
52:20 Exercise. Force applied to the bone. Impact or jolting exercise like jogging, skipping. Walking w a bounce. They didnt mention jumping jacks or Hiit. Gymnastics would likely be great but not so practical. Taking Calcium and vit D may not be a good idea.
Maybe if we all did gymnastics throughout our lives, our bones would stay strong.
Why did no-one mention the Onero exercise program. There are published results demonstrating that it improves bone density.
People need to know about Professor Belinda Beck who developed this program! It is so worth it!
Thank you for all this great information. I’ve had severe osteoporosis since diagnosed in my early 40’s. I took a traumatic fall & fractured numerous vertebrae, ribs & wrists. I had a hysterectomy when I was 35. I was left with one ovary. I wasn’t put on hormones and my Surgeon didn’t mention anything about me going through Surgical Menopause. I didn’t have any menopause symptoms. However, now looking back, I’m really wondering just how good that one ovary was working. I’ve broken many more bones since then. I’m now 60. I’ve taken the injection Prolia for at least the last 10 years. It’s not helped so I’m going to talk to my Rheumatologist about something else because I’ve been on this 2 long. I just got put on HRT at age 60. The Doctors really did women wrong due to the flawed study regarding breast cancer and estrogen. I got caught in the middle of that being refused by a Gynecologist in my city. I finally found someone who gave me hormone replacement therapy but it’s probably 2 late 2 help my bones.
Did you trial vith d3 with k2 so it goes into bones not heart?
I am halfway listening the talk and so far there is no mention at all about Vitamin-K!!? It is well known how important this vitamin is working in synergy with Vitamin D and calcium 🤷♀️ Yet, you speak about trials, where vitamin D made osteoporosis worst. Was vitamin D given with vitamin K? That would be a very important detail….
Thankyou so much. I have osteoporosis and value this greatly.
I thought you would also tell us about vitamin K2 and sauerkraut. Is the jury still out on that one?
Is sauerkraut full of K2? Or does it have something else our bones could use?
@@jacquielowell3672 I think both. Sea salt has nutrients that our bones use. I'm sure a healthy gut helps our bones. Hence my surprise that the role of fermented food was not discussed.
Hi Zoe,
I am 82 and vegan so I became a bit concerned after watching this.
However I think you were, in the main, talking about people living in the UK
I live in South Africa (sunny South Africa) so I pulled up a map of worldwide ostioporosis distribution
and it looks like my risk of getting ostioporosis is low.
Presumably due to the vitamin D we get from the sun.
I would appreciate a comment
That's a great point
They never reply 😢
Interesting discussion but I think there is an opportunity to go further. For example, effects of alcohol, and exerices such as cycling, or types of weight-training regimes one can do. It would be inspiring to see widespread encouragement and support for older people to do proper exercises, such as lifting free weights, not just walking every day. Car use is a problem?
Completely agree @!wranian
Cycling doesn’t help the bones as it is not weight bearing. There was a tv programme some years ago comparing bone density of athletes from different sports and professional cyclists came out bottom
@@RedDragon-eh8hx Thank you that is good to know! I am wiser because of it. Hopefully more people will understand this. I am an amomaly though as I only ride fixed gear and have push very hard and use my toe straps to pull up when climbing hills.
Great to listen to, especially after experiencing the history of usual treatments. They appeared to not work?
I am a 79 yrs old female. I have osteopenia in my forearm. If I did 2+ mins of skipping per day how would that improve my forearm bone density or would I need to target that area with specific exercise? What would that exercise be?
Thank you
Another example where science has started to argue against the 'science norm'. Science and research is at a tricky junction. Social media and open access is laying bare these contradictory views. I'm sure they've always been there. The general public trusted science without question and never saw these disagreements. One wonders how the research community will fare in the future? I'm currently saying one thing to my GP regarding hrt and she is saying the complete opposite because NICE are slow to catch up with the research community. It's getting more confusing for the average person.
Ancel Benjamin Keys has a lot to answer for .
@@yvonne3903What has he got to do with it?
I have had Colitis for 16 years and had not realised nor been informed that the absorption of vitamins and minerals from the gut becomes impaired due to the inflammation.
So I guess that this would affect your advice regarding Calcium and Vit D supplementation as my blood Vit D level was rock bottom.
Are you amazed regarding your viewers? You deserve it. The quality of educative content of your podcast is amazing. Congratulations.
A lot of very interesting information. However, I would like to know if weight bearing on the legs (walking, skipping, etc), would improve bone density in arms and spine, as the three risk areas are hips, spine and wrists.
It's more likely that the areas that receive more tension/weight bearing will develop more bone density, so doing a full body exercise regime makes more sense for bone density than to just walk, for example.
Greetings from Aruba, what about Stress, precupecion anger fears.... dus does have impact, thank you
Thank you. Will be following guidance. Am passing this on to a friend who has just got 3 fractures in R leg.
Vitamin D3 takes around a month to be convertet into its active form, calcefidiol. Why is calcefidiol only aproved for vetinary use in the UK when it's use could make so much differnce to treat acute conditions?
It is approved in other countries for human use. I'm in Poland and took a mix of both forms recently 50000 units (I think it was for horses) every 6 days but will be measuring again soon and getting to lower values. But please take magnesium with normal Vitamin D3 since if you are magnesium defficient taking Vitamin D3 will make it worse. Magnesium either eat more dark leafy greens of be carefull what you take since often they put Magnesium Oxide or Cardbonate which are little or not effective at all. Actually from what I heard Vitamin D3 takes about 1-2 weeks do be converted but I suppose it depends...
@@b9eda9ad I take magnesium glycinate supplements.
Vitamin D deficiency is a global health problem due to its high prevalence and its negative consequences on musculoskeletal and extra-skeletal health. In our comparative review of the two exogenous vitamin D supplementation options most used in our care setting, we found that cholecalciferol has more scientific evidence with positive results than calcifediol in musculoskeletal diseases and that it is the form of vitamin D of choice in the most accepted and internationally recognised clinical guidelines on the management of osteoporosis. Cholecalciferol, unlike calcifediol, guarantees an exact dosage in IU (International Units) of vitamin D and has pharmacokinetic properties that allow either daily or even weekly, fortnightly, or monthly administration in its equivalent doses, which can facilitate adherence to treatment. Regardless of the pattern of administration, cholecalciferol may be more likely to achieve serum levels of 25(OH)D (25-hydroxy-vitamin D) of 30-50 ng/mL, an interval considered optimal for maximum benefit at the lowest risk. In summary, the form of vitamin D of choice for exogenous supplementation should be cholecalciferol, with calcifediol reserved for patients with liver failure or severe intestinal malabsorption syndromes. PMID: 32486496
The banner says “These foods prevent osteoporosis” suggesting there might be a list of specific foods somewhere in the discussion. I didn’t find anything like that, but I might have missed it and would appreciate it if I could be pointed to the segment “these foods” appear in. Thanks for any help with this.
How one can talk about Vitamin D3 suplementation without mentioning magnesium ? Many people are Mg defficient and it is needed for Vitamin D3 processing. In this case Vitamin D3 would cause bigger defficency of magnesium which I would presume is a very bad thing for the whole body and that would include the bones. Higher levels of vitamin D3 are required for better immunity, and other processes in the body not really for bone health. But I would presume we should not treat one disease but the patient.
and K2
@@HillLeeHill Same questions - Mg and K2?
6 months year here in the un sunny UK I take K2 and vit D in a combined spray so I don't have to think about it much in the mornings. I take magnesium at night as it relaxes muscles and aids sleep. If I take vit D at night it keeps me awake.
@@KatharineLikesCake I take this, ITL Health Vitamin D Plus - with Magnesium, Vitamin B12 and Vitamin K2. So I'm getting the co factors.
Magnesium is best obtained by diet - whole foods. Trivial stuff.
I was diagnosed at 50 and it lowered over 15 years despite meds.
This is the same with me. I fractured a hip after falling on the ice at age 59. I had no problems recovering and never once did I think I would die. I took bisphosphonates for 10 years on on off as tolerated and my bone density continues to fall. I have decided to stop the medication. I have a healthy diet with diverse plants to no avail.
@@ivyclara9782 Hi, I am a retired physical therapist. Yes it is possible to completely recover from a hip fracture. BUT if you are over 65 the stats are alarming . If you have a fracture over the age of 65 about 25 percent of people will die within the next year.( This is with surgery) 50 percent will not recover their previous level of mobility. In other words if you walked without device prior to surgery you may now need a cane. The death rate without surgery is much higher because you would need pronged bed rest for the hip to heal.But as I said earlier it is still possible for an older person can completely heal from a hip fracture.
I have haemachromatosis and had a lot of pain in my hand joints. I took Vit d and the pain has reduced by 90% at least.
Please have charts of information to show during the program--thanks
I had a DEXA scan in my 40s as I'm housebound with limited mobility - dx with osteopenia, a precursor to osteoporosis.
But I also seemed to have malabsorption issues at the time with lots of deficiencies picked up on blood tests. (NHS, beyond a celiac test refused to look further into why I'm not absorbing minerals & effectively despite a v healthy diet!!).
But here in UK NHS just put you on ADCAL - calcium & Vit D3 - which seems ineffective!
This is not mentioned in above dialogue nor the mention of osteopenia is an indicator of osteoporosis to follow unless action is taken.
I discovered last year I needed Vit K2 to take with D3 to even absorb the calcium in my bones & magnesium!
Immediately stopped ADCAL & now taking these high quality (aka expensive) supplements instead alongside my healthy diet.
Will see what my next scan this month reveals.
Same story with me... But also low B12 due to malabsorption. Was on long term omeprazole (not monitored) Gastritis ect. Now I'm paying for B12 IM injections and buying my own vitamins ( started with patches) as I couldn't take anything in pill form as I'd ruined my stomach eating wheat (villi are returning slowly) so topical application was the only way. I also have osteoarthritis? NHS will not help. My GP keeps telling me I'm depressed ( not depressed, bloody angry).. I work full time and try to manage my health myself.
We have osteoporosis in our family, so I was conscious of what might happen in the future. In 1994, at 48, I had a total hysterectomy, which meant No Estrogen. I was on HRT - Progyluton (I think) for over 12 years. That was stopped because long-term use of HRT outcomes wasn't clear. Then I was on Alendronate for a few years, followed by Zolendronic Acid annually for another 5 years; Strontium Ranclate for a while. Since 2015, I have been on Denosumab bi annually. I get a bone density scan done annually, and results show that there has been no further deterioration. I take a calcium supplement prescribed by my endocrinologist and other supplements. I have been hypothyroid since 1994.
How does doing a weight bearing exercise, such as walking, help with bone density in your arms or wrists?
I thought, jumping up and down when you have osteoporosis would increase your risk of getting a compression fracture of your lumbar spine. Please explain.
creating stress on the bones through weight and impact exercises causes osteoblast activity and they become slightly more dense, basically if it’s safe for you to do so then you should be doing impact exercises. Obviously it isn’t safe if your osteoporosis is severe though so it’s a case by case basis.
I followed Tim's advice to do heel raises because I have limited mobility and unfortunately it made the pains in my right leg much worse (?siatica) and is taking a long time to settle down. I'm 81 and have booked an nhs physio appointment but am having to waait4 months.
22:20 is there any reason why we shouldn't make earlier screening available on the basis that if your t score is better than -1.5 you come back for another scan in 5-10 years. If it's better than -2.5 we discuss non pharmacological interventions and scan again in 3 yrs. If it's worse than -2.5 we put all reasonable treatment options on the table regardless of age.
Which exercises are best if someone has osteoporosis?
The Onero Program (The Bone Clinic) by Professor Belinda Beck is proven.
What about being on Prolia then Dr switching u to Zoledronic acid what are the side effects of this drug how does one know what to do ?
20:09 I can't help wondering if treatment options are taken off the table for patients who are diagnosed later in life.
I'm an Ozzy so things might work a bit differently here. Both my parents got an oestoprosis diagnosis just a few years before my own. My mother in law's diagnosis precedes mine but I'm not sure by how much. Collectively they were told not to fall and try to stay mentally engaged, do resistance training and cut back on the grog, don't worry about it other things will kill you first. My father in law also died less than 20 months after a fall resulting in a hip fracture without being scanned or diagnosed for low bone density.
I was offered more options than the lot of them put together.
At best this might reflect differences in our individual circumstances or the knowledge and skill of our treating physicians.
At worst there seems to be an acceptance that this is just part of the ageing process
Check out the Onero Program and Professor Belinda Beck from Brisbane, Australia.
@@threadfix thanks. As a fellow resident of brisvegas I will definitely follow this up. My GP is brilliant and has a keen interest in ageing well. I'm not 60 yet and feel like I have more options on the table than people I know with similar BMD who are 20yrs older. This is based on a small sample space so may not reflect the experience of others.
Thanks for your video guys. I have a question. Can osteopenia cause bone fractures or lesions from repetitive impact/stress (running, for example) on vertebrae?
I am also interested in vitamin K2. Does eating natto reduce the risk of osteoporosis? Is there a lower incidence of bone fractures in Japan?
I read that there was lower incidence of osteoporosis in the areas of Japan where natto was eaten, so I eat Natto everyday here in New Zealand! Started about two months ago and intend to stay on it for the rest of my life. It tastes terrible by itself, but I have it with a tsp of miso, a nub of grated cheeses and boiling water in a cup and it's not too bad. I am 66 yr female diagnosed with osteoporosis 4 months ago. I was on Fosamax for 3 months but decided to stop after researching the possibility of negative future outcomes. Other items in my dietary arsenal include marine collagen, D3, 7 prunes a day, chia seeds and ground almonds for extra calcium, and tumeric, ginger and black pepper liquid (Wildly brand)
@@alisonfoster4799 I make natto in an InstantPot, then split up the batch by putting it in mini muffin cups and freeze them. I eat 1 muffin cup full per day (about 1 tablespoon). To eat it, I put it in 1 cup of hot water, with 1 Tbs of miso and 2 Tbs of peanut butter. I kind of like it that way. I read a study once that showed that Vitamin K2, combined with Vitamin D, also has benefits for your brain.
My dear late mum had a hip fracture age 57 followed by a hip replacement due to osteoporosis. Hip proceeded to dislocate several times for the next 10 years which was nothing short of horrific. Then age 65 her second hip had to be replaced as it was diagnosed as "collapse risk". She first had to have her 1st hip redone so it could support a second hip replacement. 10 years later her knees needed replacing but she died before the NHS could do anything so she spent her last years in a wheelchair.
If only they'd checked her bone density when she was 50 she could have done something.
May God bless her soul 😢
The later screening ( 70 +) is to save money. They work on statistics. I had a bone density scan at 49 and paid for it myself. No problem at that time but it will be interesting to get a scan result now that I’m 70.
Should someone with under active thyroid continue taking vitamin D, as GP advised over the counter supplement due to blood results showing slightly lower vitamin D? Many thanks
Thanks for this, Id really appreciate some episodes on hypothyroidism as I take the Levothyroxine prescription that it seems vast numbers of the population too are prescribed. It doesnt help the symptoms much and the GPs only go by the blood test levels and leave the symptoms unfixed.
Me too. I'm always surprised to hear how many people (mostly women) are on levothyroxine
I too, am on Levothyroxine. I’ve been complaining to my GP about changes happening, including massive weight gain, but the blood tests were in range. After 18 months, the blood tests have caught up with my symptoms. I have the same problem with B12 levels. I’m not sure how accurate these ranges are as different countries use different range levels. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm 75. I've been doing resistance training 3 times a week for nearly 4 years now, which includes impact work. I also swim at least one a week, usually twice, but that's part of my cardio routine, along with walking. I do take vitamin D tablets having read some time ago that they could help with the bone pains I get in the winter, and they do help. I would like to know more about the statement that taking vitamin D could not be a good thing, even possibly increasing the chance of death. I feel that was mentioned without any real explanation.
Of course we should be going out dancing! 65 and still shimmying here...
Does one have to pay to do this Zoe consultation? Actually, would like more specifics on a healthy diet which could help.
Thank you, but:
Now i am in total shock, because i am taking Calciferol ( vit D3 ), HRT, Mena cal 7.
'Had ALCLASTA injection, given by my Gp 3x already. I am now 62 years old.
I am very active, running, walking, Pilates, weight training. ( Biokineticist ), exercise a lot, and do not smoke.
I am not eating enough proteins, i think.
Don't know what to do. Must i stop the Calciferol etc?