Making the Comanche Bow, A Bow Maker's Journey
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2022
- The Comanche people of the Great Plains were powerful warriors who used brilliant war-like tactics to strike fear into enemy tribes, settlers, and the US Calvary. They crafted osage orange short bows to hunt buffalo and defend themselves against powerful forces. In this extensive video, Jeff from Primitive Lifeways takes you throughout the entire process of making and producing the Comanche style short bow.
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All that I have here in north Carolina is honey locust can I make a bow out of that
If I may ask? Can you tell me how many rings you went into for the back and how many rings you took off for the front also ?
And i absolutely love your channel you are a Amazing teacher and mountain of knowledge ..thank you..
@@matthewmaxcy1574: He took off what was necessary, to get the thickness he wanted.
I don't see why you couldn't use honey Locust since the Black Locust was heavily used by many tribes as well. If it's a member of the Locust family I would assume it will work fine as long as it grows straight enough to tiller a bow.
Excellent info and history my tribe is in the Yukon and very few people gave any knowledge about bows wich is sad,good to see people out there taking interest in our culture.
@Dr Level Hetero very true
@Dr Level Hetero sometimes I think they might be messing with some people's minds a little bit too. That's why I don't take my self too serious, you know, just in case I'm batshit crazy 🙃🙂🙃🤫😵💫🥴👻👽🤡🙈🙉🙊
Thank you!
Navajo nation respect brother!
@Dr Level Hetero not necessarily. However the system works.. our countries foundation of laws can allow it to work that way maybe well enough that the city dwellers can be in a couple cities supported by trade with tribes. Hopefully of all kinds, ones who use modern tech but otherwise live off the land as well as Stone Age tribes. No matter how you cut it though there must be balance. With nature, our emotions, and each other. The Stone Age is not necessarily sanity.. nature can be just as brutal if not more so than what we are capable of.. however there is no getting around the fact that nature is prolly gonna be at the center of balance, and taking without giving back seems to be one of the prevalent issues there.. if so, then it can either become that way forcefully and we go back to the Stone Age or don’t come back at all… or we learn to get along and actually fix this together. I doubt not having tribes or communities that function the same as one at least will work very well without careful and constant surveillance and intervention on the part of people everyone likes and genuinely cares about everyone and not just themselves.. simply put I don’t think it’s gonna happen. Nature has already struck a balance and so long as there is life left it will strike it again, we can either participate or fall once again.
I had an Osage orange hedge native people of Kansas , my Grandpa gave me in the mid- 50's. Unforrtunaely i loaned it to my neighbor ( Rudy Scott ) for some show and tell . I never saw it again . U have made me put making another thing on my bucket list right up next to a pig hunt ,i might use my 30-06 two maybe three w/ one shot,one can hope ! Good Job ! Thanks Brother Bob
Awesome video. I have been here in comanche County Texas all my life and grew up with the Comanches a part of the local history. I'm a history buff and my great uncle was born in brown county Texas on Christmas eve 1896. As a very young boy who showed me comanche camps on his land and we walked the sites of several comanche raids and massacres on the Indian moon, as the old time cowboy like him called the full moon. He had a lot of respect for the Comanches, I remember him showing me a sharps carbine decorated all over the wood stock with brass tacks that my great uncles father had taken off a comanche killed in a skirmish close to the county line on long mountain. He even took me up on the mountain and showed me the site
Thank you for your viewership. Happy bow making!
my Nebraskan uncle showed me how to drink beer and smoke cigars. my favorite uncle
My family is from DeLeon Tx..
This design of bow is much more accurate than a Turkish or Seracen horse bow because the string contact is minimized at the tips.
I really appreciate this design.
Great stuff. I love the idea of practical archeology, ever since reading Kon-Tiki years ago. So much to be learned and understood.
as a Pasifika/Pasifiki person, i have to say that Kon-Tiki and Thor Heyrdahl have no truth in the settling of the pacific ocean, our ancestors (not just polynesians but all people of the pacific) are a mix of austronesian and sahul people, and we then went east towards the place that Kon-Tiki set out from, not the other way around. if you want an amazing book on Pasifika/Pasifiki settling and voyaging, you should pick up "Pathway of the Birds' by Andrew Crowe. He uses practical archeology by comparing our languages and our skills in voyaging to put together a respectful and interesting insight into our culture. Malo 'aupito for your interest in our culture ofa atu
@@calebhart5023 I doubt you'll find many ppl who care. Sorry but truth hurts
That was amazing. You transformed that tree into a very effective weapon. Not only is it effective it is beautiful. I like all the information you gave us before you made the bow. I am very impressed.
I like that little Osage Orange bow you made. Osage is a gorgeous wood. There are a couple of comments you make about short bows that aren't quite accurate. A short bow is not faster than a longer bow, without talking extremes. Super long bow or super short. There is more finger pinch in a short bow thus limiting draw length. if that is non existent, then it is not a powerful bow and a short bow is less stable, more difficult to be accurate with and not as powerful as a medium recurve or long bow. There is a lot of lore around natives' bows. They were short range bows, not too powerful but useful for stalking low on the ground and for carrying and shooting from horseback. It's the same with the tomahawk which wasn't what is often portrayed. The best tomahawks came from France as a trading instrument with the natives. This started around five centuries ago. The natives' lifestyle was efficient within the confines of their environment but not compared to what the Europeans brought with them. Short bows are practical in tree stands, they are sufficiently powerful for reasonable distances for hunting, up to maybe 30 yards. It isn't how far an arrow can be cast that defines the efficiency of a bow, it is how long the arrow remains at a certain speed to achieve pass through or at least good penetration with a broadhead. A short bow's limbs can only be bent so far because of their small size, before they suffer damage. An overbent bow doesn't have limbs that return in place fast enough to be called "fast". Everything has its place but the most efficient traditional bows whether self bows, recurves or longbows are usually between 60 inches and 66 inches in length. At these lengths, these bows are stable, fast, accurate and can cast heavy arrows a long distance.
I appreciate your observations as well as your own studies whether formal or otherwise. I find these short bows fascinating and I'd like to shoot one but I'm put off by the short draw length and lack of a consistent anchor point. Of course the Comanche were an incredible light cavalry, probably eating only Lembas Bread on campaign and were adept at "snap shooting" whatever that actually means. When one draws, aims and at the touch of the anchor point releases it looks like snap shooting even if it wasn't. Maybe someone such as Jeff Martin has discovered a mental anchor in that the human computer makes many calculations involving the speed and gait of the mount, the distance to target, movement of target and the arrow releases almost as if the arrow was in charge. Athletes in sports involving a ball probably operate in a similar fashion. At any rate I doubt the victims of the Comanche complained about poor accuracy.
I wonder if the Comanches had a horse bow and a stalking bow. Did they deer hunt from horseback or did they hunt deer in the old fashioned way of stalking on foot in which they needed a different type of accuracy from a greater distance than was required in battle or hunting bison?
Find myself agreeing with everything you've said.
A short bow can throw a light arrow fast. That's great for hunting small game, and even larger game if you are working in a group or have time to shoot and track down a bleeding animal.
The comanche had absolutely no need to be able to attack anything at ranges over 100yards. That is where a longer-limbed bow comes into its own; not necessarily shooting an arrow any faster, but throwing a heavier arrow at a similar speed. The heavier arrow will retain penetrative power at long ranges.
Also, based on personal experience of hunting small game, if you are used to your bow, you can shoot with partial draws (sometimes necessary when in thick brush and there is no room for a full draw. That doesn't work if you are trying to hit something from 60m away.
Thank you for watching!
Very accurate what you said the short bus really had their limitations. I had the opportunity wants to see a copy of a British longbow made in the Middle Ages and they were very very powerful weapons especially with the iron point. I also have the amazing opportunity to see an actual boat made by The Lending letter P Indians of New Jersey they were much longer and much powerful but they did not have horses they had to hunt on foot I'm sure they had something to do with it
I agree in broad terms, but only if limited to self bows. Asian horn bows with recurve and reflex are very short, but also have very long draws. The finger pinch issue is eliminated with the thumb draw. These bows don't have the limitations of a short self bow.
Fascinating and very educational ! A 50 lb pull would absolutely take down most game animals in NA ! I never knew that the native american bows were that powerful ! I thought they were in the 30 lb range because the Indian braves were so good at getting close to game ! When I saw the short distance between the bow and the string I wondered what the chances were for a serious string slap burn on the forearm though ! Yeouch !
They did not hold the bow, as the whites held a longbow.
They held them as the Asians did, out in front of themselves.
Just as Jeff showed.
i always had a bow from 10yrs old to about 15yrs im not an indian but i loved to shoot arrows, i am a retired tool and die maker so i appreciate the craftmanship and method to make the wood accurate and balanced, really impressive! i still love to learn stuff :)
A great tribute to the people who made and used these weapons with amazing skill.
Thanks dude, just making my first few longbows and your teachings are so very very helpful. I will continue the journey. Thanks again my fierce warrior brother.
Thank you for the great video. It's convinced me to subscribe and look through your history and anticipate your future videos. This was one of the most straight forward, information filled examples of Osage orange bow construction that I have seen to date.
Thank you for your support. I am glad you enjoyed it
Beautiful little bow and a great history lesson to go with it.
Very impressive. I am revisiting archery from my youth with a survival twist and your work is outstanding.
That has to be incredibly satisfying to take that piece of stave and work with it, flaws and all, to create that bow. That bow was in the wood the whole time, it just took someone with the skill and patience to bring it out into the open.
I am so proud of you Nephew, you have come a long way and learned so much. I love the Osage long bow you made for my Birthday. Just waiting for my new arrows to come in and ill let you know how it goes. ❤
Fantastic education on the bow making and history. Thanks.
im a welsbowyer in the uk, only i think only 2 people in wales still make traditional welsh longbows, (which the english nicked, but thats another story lol :) ) american short bows are few and far between, ive only ever seen one. good research and work
Just found your channel...
This is really awesome stuff!!
Excellent description of your process 👍🏻
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Excelente trabalho, adoro isso...
This was amazing, great, great instruction, loved the background of the Camanche. I can't wait to give this a try in 2023
Absolutely fantastic reproduction of the bow, well done…
Wow just excellent, this whole thing. The information about the Comanche, your plan for the bow and the quality of the process and end result. Love it
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Awesome!
Thanks for sharing this!
:)
A great sense of satisfaction and pride goes into having a hand made item like that, and to have a useful function is the real world pay off for all that effort.😃
Hard work does pay off :)
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Awesome video, really glad I found you. Haven't had luck making bows yet, but this video provides a very clear system to follow to shape the bow, rather than just hoping and guessing like I was doing. Subbed
The man himself! Big fan of your channel.
I believe it’s possible to use a bowline knot or a lariat knot for the upper loop of a bowstring.I have used the lariat knot, and it holds just fine.
Amazing. I absolutely love that 'thwp!' sound of the bow!
Your knowledge and skill are amazing. I understand that speed/velocity is the goal, and a short bow should be able to recoil quickly. I have a seven foot piece of Osage Orange that I cut in Kansas. I am now too old to use it. I wish I knew a bowmaker I could give it to. Michigan, USA Detroit area.
Very interesting, especially the history. Thank you for the video!
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Thats a really good build for primitive bow. Fast and light. Its funny that these must be held horizontally mostly because of their size and shape and sneaky hunting style. But the horizontal stance is very accurate if you master it. Its like shooting a crossbow. I prefer native style bows because they are easier to carry and handle than warbows. We also have short hunting bows here in scandinavia and in europe. Many tribes all over the world used short bows and they often had relatively long arrows. All primitive hunting bows used to be convenient and practical according to the surrounding environment. In my area they had to craft laminated bows from pine and birch because there werent much options. Slowly grown northern swamp pine is actually pretty good bow material.
Where are you from? I'm from northern arkansas are tribes used osage.
Very interesting I could never make a bow I don’t believe but it looks to me like you made a beautiful bar and I’m hoping to be able to see you make some more thank you very much God bless
Outstanding thank you.
The speed on that thing!
What an awesome video presentation of a not so easy process done with basic tools, knowledge of the materials and lots of patience. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and good luck with your web page.
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I remember the Pope & Young book that did a TEST on original BOWS!
The Apache bow had the lowest "Pull Weight" 28 pounds but "SHOT THE FARTHER YARDAGE!"
I was very IMPRESSED!
Looking at the background terrain takes me home.
Awesome info, just found out my great grandfather was camanche. Crazy little bow, highly effective though.
To further the educational standpoint of your video, I think you could show how the Comanche used primitive tools to complete their bows. I am sure files and sand paper were not available to them at the time. I loved this video. First time watching
excellent insight
They probably used rough stones to do the filing, or just carve crudely with their flint knives. Not going to look fine and is very time consuming.
I bet the natives will use modern tools to make their stuff if they have a choice!
My thought exactly JR C
That was a great video -- very informative! Thank you.
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Really interesting video! That osage orange looks like it would be fun to work with. I'm still a greenhorn when it comes to bow making. This video was very helpful.
Osage orange is HELL to work with. The grain May look straight, looking at the growth rings
but within those rings, it's all twisted up, causing it to "chunk out" when trying to shave or carve it.
It is also Very hard.
Fantastic video. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge on the subject. I’ve wondered how the different tribes made their bow and arrows as that was first, their hunting tool to supply the family with wild game. Lastly, it was a weapon to protect their families from invasion by the enemy.
Been sitting on large chunks of osage for 35 years, cut form a 140 year old tree Made lots of kitchen utensils over the years learning the wood in hopes of making a bow with one of the larger pieces. Thanks for kickstarting me.
Very nice. Happy bow making
Nice bow! Love short bows.
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Peoples who fought on horseback always favored short bows, from the Mongols to the Native Americans. This was because it was easier to switch from shooting to your left or right side, since the bottom of the short bow could more easily be lifted over the horses mane. Peoples who used their bows from a standing position didn't have this problem, and so preferred the more powerful longbows.
Most Native Americans did not fight from horseback.
A bows power is determined by its draw weight, not by type.
Almost always- Japanese used long bows.
@@Rick-ve5lx and fought from horses
@Nathaniel Miller then we agree but are using different vocabulary 🙂 I would have said design instead of type, but for sure heavy limbs make a slow bow.
Thanks for demonstrating your message for making a short bow out of orange wood. I'm going to be working with Pacific Yew wood.
I'm sure some of your techniques will be very valuable in my instruction. I know I have to stay away from the dust of the Pacific Yew.
I like your black and white bonnet with the pom pom. Nice Bow. Thanks 4 sharing 🙂
huh?
Those arrows are zipping outta there like a 🚀
Lars Andersen's video on the Comanche got the A.I. to suggest your video.
I felt like we were dropped into the middle of your process in this video so if there are others that lead up to this please let us know.
-Was the stave split out out green wood?
-How long was it drying before work began?
(some plains natives supposedly soaked osage in water then bent it into desired shapes)
-once the growth ring was established was all other work done on the back of the stave?
-What was the traditional bowstring made of?
-Were the bowstrings released when not in use?
-What were the traditional fletchings?
-How many fletchings?
-What was the size and depth of the nocks?
thanks
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Wood was dry
2 years dry time
Fast flight string
When not in use, unstring bow
Turkey feathers
3
1/8" deep
Great video thanks for the education
Super cool! Great work, I love it.
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Hello, nice bow and thank you for sharing your very interesting video.
Thanks for the cool video! I really like the bow you made. Maybe one day I'll see if I can make one too.
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Interesting video. Enjoyed that.
I better watch this loving archery an married to Comanche princess for 20 yrs. (Not kidding! Grandfather lived through 13 bullet holes from Texas Rangers). She was a genius, speaking dozen languages with 5 masters degrees!
Sweet craftsmanship
Wow very impressed!
Sweet, can't wait!
Thats better than my Mack 10, which can Jam, cool videos you make.
Lovely job thank.
I was trying visualize the rings as you explained the layers and what came to mind was a reverse leaf spring so your outer ring is the main leaf narrowing down to the handle
An excellent presentation. Congrats
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Really interesting...thankyou.
I don't see how u got though this with a straight face lol good job sir
Terrific information. Osage orange is easy to find.
Beautiful, functional bow. Happy hunting.
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That was fascinating.
Incredible! Great video!
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That’s awesome! Well done 👍
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@Primitive Lifeways, so I need to chase a single layer before working on shaping the rest of the bow? Any idea if that applies to board bows also?
Now u should try to make one with only the materials and tools available to them at the time. I'm not being a smartass, I couldn't do this with any tools without some reading and practice, I'm just always amazed at the stuff people could build and create with sticks and stones
It's a pretty awesome experience when your curiosity leads you to some real creativity. Loved this video, Stay curious folks. :)
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Osiyo, have you discovered any difference in native bows,, north to south. east to west. material, cordage, decoration. what about between horse back tribes like comanche to black foot? i think you need to do a more indepth series. great channel
cool bow build!!!!
Excellent video
Awesome video!!!! 👍👍
EXCELLENT INSTRUCTION!!!
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That's a tight little bow my Man! Well done!
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Great video.. Great job. 👍 Greetings from Denmark.
Those Shinto saw rasp are awesome
Amazing!
Awesome stuff. The Comanches were legendary warriors and masters of the bow and horseback.
Your bow looks good, but doesn't sound very fast, at least on video. Was it really at 51lbs when finished? What weight of an arrow did you have there?
i would have liked to hear which growth ring you chose to follow and the reasons you chose it. thanks
awesome video very interesting
Love the video! Love the shirt!
Curti⚡e este modelo mesmo que vou fazer,Power COMANCHES
Cool stuff
I think many people underestimate the draw weight of short bows. What they lose in draw length, and therefore anchor ability for the archer, can easily be forgiven with their gain in speed. Another nice bow build!
Thanks. It was a fun build and this bow will see a lot of use.
Not sure where you guys have the "shorter=faster" stuff from. Short bows are more practical when sneaking through bushes or shooting from horseback. But a long self bow with light tips is superior to a short selfbow.
@Cornelius Sulla Hmm. You've got a lot of qualifiers in there. But that's fair since I left out qualifiers too. Pound for Pound, a shorter bow will be faster. Both in terms of getting the arrow off and the initial speed of the arrow. It's a physics thing for the limbs to travel through their distance to get up to speed. Shorter limbs have shorter distance to release speed. You can usually crank up the poundage in a longbow to compensate for much of that and equal their release speed. All of that ignores their resistance factors too, btw - like limb width and thickness, tip weight, and differences in material makeup etc. But if you could build them to be perfectly comparable on those factors, (ie light limb tips on both) you are left with a short bow needing less lbs to get the same speed. All you can do to get around the physics is engineer your way there, like you're suggesting. So. I should probably have put more weasel words in and said something like, "on average, because of the physics of shorter limbs, these types of bows tend to be faster than their longer counterparts, at lower poundage." There. I fixed it! 😁
Many peoples survived very well on various bow types for millennia and I suspect they all argued over their superior use-cases, as surely as they argued and fought over their marksmanship.. Nothing new in that. Since we don't survive on them anymore, we can engineer or replicate them for all kinds of reasons, not least of which is because they're "cool" and fun!
@@chucklearnslithics3751 I made bows for a few years and at a tournament near Munich, we had a chrono to shoot through. And many people with very different types of bows could compare the designs to each other. And have you read the traditional bowyers bible?
@@chucklearnslithics3751 PS Sorry, I have read only the first part of you reply because I getting ready for work. I will read the rest when I return and hope I didnt misunderstand anything so far. And thank you for the quick reply anyway.
Interesting tutorial, I would like to have seen how the original Comanche bow makers did it. Not that you had to use their methods but a "this is what the Comanche bow maker would have use here" sort of thing. Knowing they didn't have modern rasps, sandpaper, draws and such it would have been even more time consuming and delicate to produce per bow. Good tutorial now make 50 more for the next hunting party going out this week end, LOL.
They don't know how their ancestors made bows. The best Native American arrowhead maker I ever saw work, said a white man showed him how to make arrowheads. LOL
Absolutely love your videos bro. Thank you for the simple explanations!
Are there any more woods that are suitable to this design?
I agree with you to a point on the use of the shortbow. But find a longer bow...5 foot or so...to be smoother and more accurate then the shortbows. They allso seem to have a longer range.
I've made both and like both...keeping a 48 inch bow in my collection and hunted with one for a couple years.
I now typically use a bow with just an extra inch or two over my max draw of 27 inches...so about 56 to 58 inches over all
I use vegetable shortening and a heat gun on bows to bend them.
I use vegetable shortening and a candle to bend arrows.
Great vid thanks
Thank you!
Thanks for video, are u making notches on comanches bow?
Awesome
love an light
Very interesting
be interesting to know some details about the projectile - build materials, tip, FPS, joules upon impact, range, penetration and the like