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Did It Save Face or Fall Flat On It?...Pilgrim Ammunition 9mm +P Torch Self-Defense AMMO Test!
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Testing some 9mm +P ammo from Pilgrim. Will the 9mm perform well or come up short? Heavy clothing ballistic gel test using a Canik Mete MC9 and Glock 17!
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We need to get this man to 100k as a 2A community. ...
Slowly but surely.😎👊
I just did my part. Great channel
Before I even watch the test I gotta say, your own range with nothing but woods around, blue skies, 80 perfect degrees, some tools, targets and ammo. Doesn’t get no better, does it? I’m in Florida and we’re already pushing 100 degrees with almost 80% humidity. Range days make you a bit more sweaty, but still fun. 😎
Good test Tools. Personally I'm not a fan of the super light-for-caliber 9mm loadings, I'll stick with the Gold Dot/HST but glad to see so many options out there for folks
Thank you sir.😎👊
I primarily carry HST 124 +P. However, the Underwood Xtreme Defender 90gr +P is absolutely devastating (as is the price).
My biggest question is accuracy. Yea they are pretty devastating rounds especially at 10 feet but what I'd I have to shoot 40, 50, 60 or further? I know I can make those shots with my edc and elite defense rounds.......
@@adventurfly879 same, it's deviating pretty far from what the caliber was designed for, I'd be worried about the variables changing at distance
Devastating compared to what? The HSTs?? What have you tested it on? I have the 90 grain +p+ but i haven't used it on anything @stephen6720
In fairness, the reason for the FBI penetration minimum value is to simulate a side hit that still hits the heart. So, through an arm, and then the side into the heart. Face to face with an attacker, this stuff would probably be great.
I'm not saying opinions are wrong or these tests are flawed. I love them. It's why I come here. I was just sharing what I know about the FBI standard.
Regardless, I still stick to HST+P. lol
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Even in a best case scenario frontal shot I don't know if those little fragments could make it through a sternum or rib. And the leftover stump is only 29 grains. I've never seen anyone shoot this stuff at ribs or a bone. I have seen GunSam test it with 3 inches of gel, a piece of 1/4 fiber board and then a full block of gel behind that and the 1/4 fiber board basically stops the frags and stump from making through.
@@timrobinson6573thats a good point. I guess maybe the play is the fragments hitting sternum softens the target? I personally dont want to slow-play a situation that requires a firearm. I want something that will destroy, not simply damage. Simply damaging isnt fast enough to stop a threat hell bent on hurting/killing you.
In gamer nerd terms, we want to one shot the opponent, not kite and DOT them.
@@timrobinson6573 it would. Similar rounds have been used in other gel tests using simulated bone and even those ballistic toros, and they do as advertised, they just don't have tons of penetration. That's fine if it's a frontal shot. You also have to remember, it's a hand gun round. It's already suboptimal, and being as it's made to fragment, rather than expand, it's further focused on doing one certain thing, well.
The reason I stick with +p HST is because, I feel, it does the best all around.
Those smacked that gel hard.
Tools try a 40 cal round
So it's basically a 9mm varmint round. Looks like it does what it was designed to do pretty well! Love the channel!!
Great test, but I'm like you. I just don't trust these types of ammo for defense. You have to have too many factors be just right, for them to work as they should. And after a lifetime career of seeing shootings and shooting victims, I can tell, nothing ever works just right and the stars are rarely aligned when you have to shoot in self defense. There are always different factors at work in almost every situation. Better to rely on something that's tested and looked at as the norm. For 9mm, that would be a quality 124 gr JHP (+p or not) such as the HST, Gold Dot, or Critical Defense or a 115 gr +P+ JHP. Just load up and relax. You've probably got the best ammo for most situations.
I'm stocked up with V-Crown, HST and Gold Dot! 😊
These look almost identical to the Liberty Civil Defense, maybe they use the same bullet.
@@kennethferguson4283 Word is, the guy who used to be at liberty started Pilgrim.
👍👍 thanks Tools. All you can ask is for a cartridge to work like the manufacturer says it does and this one does that , so at least you know what you’re getting.
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Impressive performance in the gel, but I'd need to see barrier tests and maybe something like Paul Harrel's meat target before I'd consider switching from a traditional JHP.
They make a mess for me to clean in the gel for sure.😆
Yeah, 99% of the bullets Paul shot at meat targets went right through the bones and seemed to be barely affected, if at all. But this is the kind of ammo that I think the ribs might affect more than others.
I think Paul tested the civil defense and they were devastating on the meat target
Those would be good for coyotes or bobcats outta that Henry if you had that problem but I would stick to standard grains.
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You should get that Canik extended mag that has the extra material on the baseplate to fill in the gap on the MC9. Real game changer for that gun in both ergonomics and aesthetics
Thanks! The lab radar wants to be in rifle mode over 1600fps.
Those hit the gel pretty hard up front. Lots of damage. 👍 Good stuff. 🙂👊😎🇺🇸
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This is a brand of ammo that rumor in local and state levels of Law Enforcement circles in my area at least, would lead one to believe that it was rejected by at least one federal agency (I have a pretty good idea which one in particular) because of the unpredictable nature of the lightweight bullet(s) utilized. Since I only heard of this brand a few weeks ago I can't state a personal opinion other than to say I would be very reluctant to carry it for personal defense simply because I don't trust ANY 9 Minimal to get the job done unless you get very, very lucky with the first five or six rounds. Just so you know, I do think so much of you and the quality of your videos, as opposed to several other YT providers, I've pretty much dumped them into the "Unsubscribed Bucket" and depend on you to tell the truth based on your results. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Tools nice test!
Not my preference for ammo. But I'm glad it exists as an option and I get why some people choose it. Thx for the vid!
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Thank you for the test. 👍👍
Well I'm impressed with it. Nice shot placement btw. 👍
Thank you sir.😎👊
They hit that gel hard.
Not my type of round, but always glad to see another fine round of Jelly Time testing, thanks.
You might try the rifle setting on the lab radar. I believe it is a velocity issue. Great channel! Thanks for what you do!
Not something I would buy or carry, but they did good, and did as advertised. Thanks for another great test!
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Love the packaging - that’s what the Brotherhood of Steel must be ordering 😂
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Great testing. Great video. 👍👍
Great info. Thanks for the demo👍
Nice test. I like this stuff.
Great video as always!
Awesome test again, man!
Thank you!
Looks like these might be a good self defense round as long as within reasonable distance, but I am not soldo these lightweight rounds still a fan of 124 grain rounds like a federal Hydrashok or a HSTor asilvertip
These look like the civil defense rounds.
Because they are :D
As always Tools great review👍
Always good, informative videos.
Thanks again!
Always trust your testing ...very well done again as usual
Thank you sir.😎👊
Good test again! With rounds like these, whatever is shot is either going to drop like it's hit by lightning or have little or no effect. Saw that big game hunting when I was young and dumb and used light, fast expanding bullets. Same concept here but on a smaller scale. Thanks again for a great video
That's some pretty impressive ammo, I have never seen where live but I sure will look for it. Thanks for all that you do.I really enjoy the videos.
Enjoyed the testing, so thanks for taking the time! That said, the problem with the really light stuff is that a rib or anything else is going to stop that thing.
Great video as always i love watching jelly time. Great video
Thank you brother for another great test keep it up. 👊😑
Appreciate that.😎👊
Have you seen the Grizzly 124gr +p+? According to the advertised velocity, that stuff is moving out faster than the underwood stuff.
For very light projectiles decent performance. Glad they hit the listed speeds, would be happier if they went deeper. Thanks for the jelly test Tools!
Those would make one hell of a cavity mess, maybe try a goat rib bone in some older gel. Thanks for the great test
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I’m not a fan of these types of rounds but it was still pretty impressive. They passed advertised velocity and performed as advertised. Sure would make a mess of squishy parts if it made it to them. Awesome test as always good sir 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Interesting. Good that they did perform as designed. Not my choice but looks effective if needed. Thank you
Thanks for the video.
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I had an accidental discharge with the .9 mm civil defense to my height hand. In center of palm and out at base of wrist.
That stuff works as advertised!
A little over 4 months ago. My hand will never be the same and still have a long way to go with treatment and surgery.
Other then that, I like the stuff and get 2,550 ish from 16” barrel
Wow, I hope you have a full recovery, I know it will take many years.
Crazy. Do you have any photos you could email?
That's some pretty interesting stuff, another ammo test in the books Tools 🇺🇸👊 I'm kind of rounds are not what I would use but if that's all I had I would run it..
Another great performance by the MC9 and the Pilgrim ammo. Great test and commentary my friend. The ammo torched as advertised lol 😂. They would look good on soda bottles, shaving cream, etc. thanks for sharing and be safe. 🇺🇸⭐️⭐️🇺🇸
Good performance for what they are. Not enough penetration for me! I bought some 68 gr extreme defenders for my Hellcat. They perform great in the test I’ve seen. Thanks Tools 👍🏻
Only reason I would go for something this light is if I was worried about over penetration. I got an idea if you put a piece of plywood in the front of the gel that can mimic a bullet hitting bone first and see what it can do after in the gel. Would like to see how these lighter projectiles can penetrate after hitting a hard barrier.
There RUclips channel has a video showing exactly that.
If you have some left, try it with the 16-in
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Been waiting on this one. Glad to see it! Would like to see if with some bone simulating barrier to see how that affects the expansion in the gel
Very curious about that myself.
My light for caliber is 140gr. Seems they're good for short barrel tools , good info !
Those wound cavities look absolutely insane
Nasty stuff 💯
Nice test man. That clear gel is great! I would've expected G17 would've given us more penetration but not really. Perhaps slowed up due to higher velocity?
Probably so. Dumped more of its energy faster up front.😎👊
Impressive speeds. Great video as always thanks! I carry the liberty in my G27 tool. Your the man?
Appreciate that, brother!😎👊
I have shot hundreds of rounds of Pilgrim in my everyday carry. Not 1 problem. Less recoil and great energy dump. Thanks for the video. Pilgrim is close to my house in Florida.
This type of round might be preferred by folks living in apartments. Less likely to leave their apt and go into another. This is something I might choose if I still lived in apts like I used to. Leaving in a house with space and trees around me it's a different story. I'll use my 44 mag lever gun if it's what's handy when I need a gun.
Excellent test and information 🇺🇸👍👍
Great test as always brotha. Love the owner of this company, on survival dispatch podcast occasionally. True patriot and hes actually Australian or New Zealand, forget which. Great for people like me who live in close quarters. We need something like this
This appears to be a close copy of Liberty Civil Defense. I like them. I wouldn't use them exclusively as my entire ammunition supply because it's specialized, but I do carry a Colt Agent with the .38 Special version in the cylinder at all times. With one speedloader loaded with more Liberty Civil Defense, one with 110 grain Federal standard pressure, and two speed strips with Remington standard pressure lead semiwadcutter. The +P Remington FBI load is my favorite, but some guns, especially 2" barrels, don't like it and it delivers a rather dispersed group in them. Others shoot it very well. It does have substantially increased recoil and muzzle flash though, and becomes somewhat more difficult to control from lightweight alloy frame guns. The Liberty is shockingly loud but with oddly light recoil. It also hits 4"-6" low at 10 yards from anything. But that's unavoidable with ultralight bullets. I know at least one armed professional carrying 9mm Liberty Civil Defense on duty, and he reports they're extremely effective. So there's that. It definitely has a place.
Word is, the guy who used to be at liberty started Pilgrim.
@@CHEECHMUN It certainly looks highly similar. These ultra lightweight very high velocity machined copper hollowpoints seem to be taking the place of earlier exotic munitions like Glaser and MagSafe. I really liked them, especially MagSafe, but that appears to have gone out of production and Glaser is unobtainable currently. Both were very well proven on the street, but also very expensive. Several dollars per cartridge for MagSafe, because each individual bullet was handmade. But now we have these. I wonder if anyone will resurrect the French THV, which was a similar concept from the 1970s that used a reverse ogival machined brass bullet that was 45 grains in 9mm and running between 2,200 and 2,400 fps. Supposed to have also been highly effective. Couldn't use brass bullets in the United States, but there was a copper bullet South African copy from New Generation Ammunition that was considered just as good. I have two rounds of it...
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I personally like this kinda stuff. Thanks Tools! Please test Simx Defensecore!
Interesting results Tools. At least they are consistent. The fragmentation needs to happen a bit deeper and that plug needs to go much deeper. My biggest concern though is what happens if it hits bone or some harder barrier? Are these rounds only good for close in with nothing more the hitting some clothing and then flesh? What would be the results of extreme body fur, such as animal, or a tough hide? Just not sold on this high speed low weight ammo. To many unanswered questions.
Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
These would make a decent varmint round for anything under 50lbs. I just wouldn't count on it for the 2 legged variety,
That's some stuff I might actually carry I usually stick to normal JHP's but the wound channel on those are nasty
I’d like to see you make a talking head video at your workbench talking about the best ammo to use for each caliber. What you like about the ammo what’s good for short barrels and long barrels. Would be great for the conceal carry community
I'm not a huge fan of this type of ammo either but holy cow man! Over 500lbs in that G17 Geez! I wouldn't have any problems carrying a mag full of that stuff if I had to. Thank ye brother.
Miss, on not taking a tape measure to depth. And if it can make it thru a rib cage, not looking to put the round thru the offender and into someone else....sort of the point of the semi frangible.....in my opinion. I run the liberty defense....for what its worth
Word is, the guy who used to be at liberty started Pilgrim.
might be good for home defense. How about shooting thru drywall?
Maybe for some people, but even then there are better performing fragmenting rounds. Appreciate the tests.
I've seen a couple videos it penetrates 3a body armor and still performs just like that
Don't forget, you get a "free" 125 fps (approx.) from ANY Glock, due tothe polygonal rifling vs standard rifling; the polygonal rifling is obturated (sealed off) MUCH more effectively. With standard land & groove rifling, some gas is expelled FORWARD of the projectile through the grooves, with velocity/energy loss because of that. Hammer. 42+ year Firearms Instructor. USAF SSgt; US Army CW4/SrAviator; INS/ICE/CBP, ret.
I have 1 Glock and a VP9 with polygonal rifling.
Great testing but I'm not going to carry them, I'll stay where I'm at. Enjoyed the video Bro!
Where you at?
HOWDY, PILGRIM.
You have the best testing I've seen. Can I request one with +p 68 extreme defender? Maybe compare to the +p+ 90 those are their hottest loads?
I love these tests! Hey is there any chance you could do a 38 super test out of a true 38 super pistol?
I feel like spec ops and swat could use these in sub guns to great effect over the AR-15 it will defeat body armor and doesn't over penetrate especially in a full auto these would be deadly in a builden
Great job Tools not bad but I think I'll stick with the gold dot have a great weekend stay safe and God Bless.
What a nice day to make a video!
Yeah, this was on Thursday. Spent today cutting grass.😆
🇦🇺😎👍They have a good crack at this end….great velocities ….great option …at least the round wouldn’t come out as easy and drill a family member 🐱 🐶 👧 🏁
Good video. I'm not a fan of frangible ammo, either. It has it's place, though.
I run the Liberty Civil Defense 9mm loading in both my CZ P 10m and my Walther PPS M2 LE, and these are so similar. The reason I chose the Liberty rounds was that I don't have to worry about regular hollowpoint failure with those short barrels not providing enough velocity for regular hollowpoints to expand. Never heard of the rounds you feature until today.
When I tested the .380 version of these, I had several comments that the folks running this company were part of liberty. No idea if that is truly the case.
@@ToolsandTargets Word is, the guy who used to be at liberty started Pilgrim.
Word is, the guy who used to be at liberty started Pilgrim.
Could you try them out off your henry homesteader msybe longer barrel will move it even faster
This round would probably make for a good varmint round out of a carbine.
Please test the 45acp, which is my favorite carry
The Lone Ranger would be impressed with those. Would I carry those, probably not. They do what they're suppose to though. Thanks for another good test Brian!
This company has a partnership with a local gun store to me. I’ve sat and debated with them that these aren’t as good as a solid traditional jhp but they say otherwise lol ok yall know best!
Yeah, I've never been sold on these type of rounds.
Watch the body armor tests, it might change your mind.
@@conquereddeath340 It won't change my mind. But to each their own
@@conquereddeath340 only thing that you could say they’re good at tbh very niche use
@@conquereddeath340the only rounds I trust to stand a chance at pentrating armor that's a 9mm is underwood, g9, or fort scott otherwise fuck outta here ain't no hollow point 9mm making it through armor
Good testing as always.👍 I honestly do not have an application, other than, maybe this stuff would actually make a cantaloupe explode.🤔
Hmmm
Get ya a Garmin Xero chronograph!
I personally might have made 70-ish grain hollow-cavity bullets for the 9mm, but the "concept" of an extremely high velocity, extremely frangible bullet handgun load goes back 175+ years. Human tissue and bones react violently to high velocity projectiles. Frankly, the 9mm or .45 ACP "hardball" round, just bores a nice uniform sized hole thru a body. IF it happens to hit an artery/vein, you lose a lot of blood. One in the chest you get a pneumothorax making useless to breathe. I cast a number of 80-90-ish grain ZINC hollow-points for .357 Magnum, giving safe muzzle velocities (in a Colt's Trooper MkV 8& 5/8") of close to 2500 FPS. Out to a hundred yards, they blew coyotes in half. Major Stoner's pet theory.
How would this perform out of a carbine? the jump from 1" of barrel makes me think this might get up near 2700 fps from a 16" barrel
Very possible. I notice they lose that velocity pretty fast at a distance though.
Probably a fast powder could run into some very big issues. Pcc need slow powders!!!! Or the risk to create a bore obstruction is very real
Really would like to see what they could do with the 10mm.
It done what it was designed to but the energy was mostly spent very shallow. The energy would be better used a few inches deeper
Good test, Brian! I kind of like the ammo but it just doesn't have enough penetration for my tastes. If all you are ever going to get is straight on frontal shots, it's great stuff but I don't want to rely on that kind of luck. It would be great stuff for the zombie apocalypse I suppose, where head shots are required. These things would be some melon splitters for sure! But I think I'll stick with my current carry ammo, which is also a melon splitter!
Cheers,
jc
Even this stuff was short of what we both like in penetration, I wouldn't write it off just yet. Even the wound channel was on the shallow side, it was pretty friggin massive. It's like someone shot a mini frag grenade in the gel and detonated it. If ever there was an ideal round for air marshalls this would be it
Not my preferred type of ammo and I'll stick to Gold Dots and HST's but at least this time around they managed to walk the walk.
Thanks for this test. The entry is impressive but it just doesn't penetrate enough.
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I’m glad Pilgrim came through this time
Same here. I really didn't want a repeat of the .380.😆
I'm kinda with you on these type rounds but, SinterFire Special Duty in 45acp is pretty impressive. 155 grain the base that penetrates is much heavier and larger than many of the others plus the break-away stuff up front looks like mushroom cloud of hurt!
Relatively inexpensive too!
Try them through your 9mm carbine Tools that would be interesting for sure
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