This feels like a martial arts version of archeology. Digging through the layers of obscurity left by time and misinformation to find out what's hidden underneath.
I've been comparing it to HEMA efforts to rediscover European Swordfighting - the same careful process of observation, extrapolation, and testing, usually by comparing it to other arts
@@ellentheeducator If people just realized how much value there is in playing around with the stuff and seeing what makes sense... Its all there and that is how it was done to start.
@@krowback I’m doubtful over how “full”. When cultures are suppressed and regulated by an ideologically-driven government for so long and has been intentionally supplanted by flashy dances and magic tricks, the original practices are incredibly obscured, mutated, or completely lost. Relatively less flashy forms could have some worthwhile parts, but I really doubt that balancing on a staff and doing silly monkey poses was ever used anywhere but a stage.
@@MynameisBrianZX Ramsey has done a video about hung ga stances and forms and how the goofy super low stance stance with your lead hand all the way out and the other hovering over your hear suddenly make perfect sense if you do the movements with a sword and shield in your hands. I think many of the more whacky kung fu styles were originally supposed to be practiced with weapons and not empty-handed. A shitty vertical overhand becomes a sword-slash, a windmill wave with both arms becomes a parrying motion if you imagine a staff or spear between your hands. But yeah a lot of kung fu was definitely invented for Hong Kong opera and later continued in kung fu films.
The first time I saw this application something awakened in me. Suddenly all the techniques in karate katas turned out to be a 70% more effective in delf defense and combat situations, but it also improved my sport karate too. It feels like becoming a white belt again and studying the martial art becomes 200% interesting. Great video!
@@jonjames5411 Nailed it! So many instructors don't teach the application, because they don't know the application. They are repeating what they were taught, and who knows if their instructor knew the actual application. Somewhere in the past, someone's instructor either wasn't paying attention, or simply wasn't taught the actual uses for these techniques. Doesn't help the poor translation between the chinese/japanese/korean into other languages. Like "Uke" doesn't mean "block" it means "to receive" which could be done with a block, parry, strike, grab, etc. Most karate/tkd schools these days are sport focused or just daycare with kicks. Kata/hyung/tul are more interpretive dance routines, because the bunkai/bunhae isn't taught. Then you have some who don't really know what they're talking about spreading the "its a fight between 8 opponents" nonsense. Its great to see Ramsey showing things like this - seems to be an awakening among the traditional martial arts folks, slow but sure.
@@SasquatchTX There are those of us out there who do get it, but unfortunately any clubs that have people who understand this are often outnumbered by the McDojos and it gets extremely political what is taught and how, you'd be surprised how much of a rift there is over the most basic of things like stances. I won't go into too much detail with the situation in my club compared to the others but it's really unfortunate since it's the people who bring in the numbers that get to dictate everything within the association.
That's so genius. Like Jesse Enkamp says a lot of things got lost, when Karate got modernized in Japan. The Takedowns where almost removed, because there was Judo. The weaposn because there was Kendo, etc. And left was only the striking and the forms/kata that have all the grappling knowledge in but kinda lost on the way
You´re absolutely right. The martial art Karate got crippled because it had to fit in into a sport and gentleman-society. In the old days, before it was even named Karate it´s name was Koppojutsu. It had a much more free and dynamic way of fighting not excluding anything from the universe of fighting-techniques.
Have a look, if you haven't already, at Anthony Vinicio, Iain Abernethy, and Jesse Enkamp. Because of the Karate - Taekwondo roots in common, you will be able to transfer most of the applications.
@@juanenriqueordonezarnau1087 Russ martin, Stuart anslow (chang hon taekwondo hae sul) are also good options, if looking for more direct TKD applications. Both are on youtube.
Wow. I think he is absolutely right. Does make a lot of sense. Especially the details of the „strikes“ only make real sense when you use it for entering like that. Really cool
Once I started training Judo, all of my Taekwondo forms made so much more sense! I knew the collar tie idea but that transfer to a reverse or a full nelson I havent thought of from those same 2 movements. Thank you so much cant wait to add these in!
As a taekwondo practitioner myself, I love to see this. Some of this is explained, but a lot of it is not and I'd like to be more proficient overall and not just for tournaments. Thank you for furthering my knowledge base.
Awesome! As a long time Goju-Ryu karate practitioner I'm glad to see more people talking about the grappling! It's an aspect of the martial art that I'm very interested in and have devoted a good amount of time to working with. One of the instructors showed me a few of the grappling techniques in our "H-Pattern" simple forms, and after that I started to notice that most of the kata that I knew were comprised largely of different grappling forms, which I started to apply in sparring. All of those low, wide stances? Throws and takedowns. Cool stuff!
i’m also a Goju Ryu practitioner, I have found cross training in boxing compliments Goju-Ryu very well they can blend together , i’m just not that good at boxing and only a little better at karate
@@oldschoolkarate-5o I’m also a long time Goju Ryu practitioner. I wrestled in high school and did street based boxing. Later on I fell into Goju Ryu, Wing Chun, and WW combatives. I found my my blend of the aforementioned styles invaluable to me. For example, when I practice Gekisai kata, after the rising forearm strike and punch, I immediately follow up with 5-7 chain punches from Wing Chun. Works for me! I had fight in my junior year and one in my freshman year of college. I won both fights nearly instantly with a “duck under tight waist throw”. Keep training!
@PRIESTBOKMEI thanks my man , I would like to do some grappling classes at a gym ,but i do grapple with my friends . one does no gi jui jitsu and a few of them wrestled in high school . that’s cool you have trained in all those styles
@@oldschoolkarate-5o @PRIESTBOKMEI I've also found cross training invaluable, as I think it is across martial arts. I did a few years of BJJ, some boxing, muay thai, and have recently been picking up Judo again. I really want to find a good wrestling gym, but the people who go the ones in my area are not good people, so I continue my search. I've had a lot of luck with the gyaku shuto in Gekisai Dai Ichi. In close proximity it makes for a wonderful sweep. And those low zenkutsu dachi stances at the end have worked great for me as throws.
The wrestling techniques in kata, we can safe to say that they had been ignored and forgotten. The black belts today, 99.9% won't know anything about what their kata means and their application. You are doing good work to rediscover the meaning of kata.
One crazy thing about kata's as well is how they're training your muscle memory so you can even handle weapons, Shotokan kata techniques to one degree or another can be done with tonfa, sai or staff, was fascinated looking at some of the demonstrations on youtube regarding that.
@@kakuto435 You even mentioned kung fu 😂 in karate origin. Kung fu is the basic, karate use kung fu as base, sure there are local style incorporated in karate, but they used kung fu as base
In our search to determine bunkai, we are often ignoring documents evidence while looking to make our tradition martial arts more effective than they are, with highly interpretive efforts to adapt kata to effective techniques.
Yeah, this is something that confused me about ITF patterns in my time there. The patterns, in addition to "hidden" techniques like this, explicitly have knee strikes, elbow strikes, throws, hooks; techniques that were never ever ever represented in sparring. Seemed like a strange oversight, particularly for a school that claimed to be as close to Gen. Choi Hong Hi as they stated. The head instructor got his 6th degree from the man directly.
I feel the same way about Tai chi, honestly. When I first began learning, I was skeptical that it was good for combat, until I started using it in jujitsu class. I remember my sparring partner tried to double leg, and I reflexively sank into a horse stance and shoved him downward, with more effectiveness than I expected from the technique. I was like: ah, this makes much more sense, now
The horse stance can also be used as a step-in to initiate a takedown - step in a low horse stance with your front leg in past their front leg and under their back leg, and you can throw them down by pulling on their hip and front leg and twisting your hip. It’s really interesting!
Thats absird. Horse stance is the opposite of what you want to do to stop a double leg. Your training partner does not know how to perform a double leg takedown.
I think it's so interesting to see the often ignored concept of pulling applied. Usually, the tendence is to push away, to get rid of the problem, but pulling to our own zone gives us a whole new lot of posibilities. Love these videos, great as always! 🙏🏻
It's cool to see you and jesse talk about how movements in the foorms/katas are supposed to be utilized. I did taekwondo for a while, but it wasn't until I started wingchun that I noticed some similarities. And then started to apply wingchun and escrima movements into my sparring. Those collar ties became more pronounced. I have a wrestling background, so this also became more useful.
@@astonprice-lockhart7261 Thats a very interesting comment. It actually has many layers of nuance... Also, a lot of perspectives from which we can understand the meaning of the comment. Ill start: The oldest indigenious martial arts we know of are wrestling arts... Mongolian wrestling, Shao Jiao, Sumo, etc. Wrestling was often an adjunct to military training... Eventually the Greeks decided that Apollo's temple was such that one could show greatness by fist fighting for individual glory. This took the idea of sport fighting in a new direction... prior to Apollo the Spartans used boxing as a means of training as a team, for toughness and such. As I posted, the very idea of striking versus grappling can at times be a false dichotomy. A knife hand is a strike and it is a grab... if one fights with a reverse punch one usually learns fairly quickly that to use the technique against an opponent who wants to brain ya, you best grab him with the other hand and pull/push him into position as you square your shoulders up when throwing the blow... Otherwise you wind up square and exposed to boxing techniques.
@@dsimon33871 Facts. Also it makes sense because you could spar and avoid major injuries. Besides closing the distance to avoid being struck is a common go to. All those are great points. Thank you!
Any video with Jourdan is always a treat! Also! I've thought about these forms for the longest time, and just now I see why learning and practicing them is important. Great video!
Really appreciate the links to previous videos that expand upon the techniques involved. Saves you going through it all again but allows us to refresh if we need to. Good production to match useful info TY coach
I find "practical" bunkai very interesting, but I think it's worth pointing out to people learning TKD and/or karate (or tai chi or whatever style) that the theoretical presence of applications in the kata doesn't mean you're training the techniques. The fact that a kata may "have" a certain grappling movement doesn't mean you can use it; you're actually going to have to get out there and train in high-resistance sparring/rolling to get anything out of it. I mention this because I often encounter people who tell me "I don't need jiujitsu or judo or wrestling because my tai chi (or karate, insert whatever style you like here) has grappling in it." A lot of guys are basically looking to check off boxes in order to make their styles appear more "complete" than they really are. The fact that a kata may or may not have significant grappling content is really something of scholarly, not practical, importance. Perhaps karateka 200 years ago really did train significant grappling, and that's fantastic, good for them, but it does little for the modern guy who just repeats these motions, likely without even recognizing what they are, ad infinitum.
As a former Taekwondo practitioner, I appreciate this showcase of the practicality of the forms. I had a very traditional instructor who took this kind of approach.
Very cool to see. I am very fortunate to be in a TKD school that our instructor has turned away from the modern sport WTF and reverted more to the original form. Yes we do go into take downs, a little grappling and joint manipulation. And yes we do punch to the face during sparing. With body armour of coarse.
Iain Abernethy has video on knife hand blocks (shuto uke in japanese) and he shows the exact samething. He also shows that it can also be used for arm clearance to get a shot in.
Taekwondo competition needs a complete overhaul and ought to be reworked to improve the full application of what Taekwondo is and can be to include grappling, take downs and follow on strikes minus the hogu and headgear.
If you're going to go into Shotokan with more of your videos Ramsey, please please talk about how important hip movement, body weight distribution in stances is for generating powerful techniques, really interesting stuff, most people who look at Shotokan just do the motions and think that's all there is to it.
@@RamseyDewey LOL I totally get you, the Japanese instructors are insane and luckily/unluckily so are my own, unfortunately when it comes to traditional shotokan especially the standards vary wildly in the west which I think is why a lot of the MMA lot think traditional martial arts suck. By the way, random thing but I often watch this channel called Kuro-Obi World and there's a lot of nice information there. The guy doing demo stuff and learning from other styles naka sensei just recently uploaded a video on Maegeri.
This is so awesome, I learnt taekwondo long time ago, then switched to other martial arts and just thought those techniques are fantasy. This makes me want to decode all those pumses I learnt.
One of the things I love about your stuff is you see that forms are not just the most obvious thing (i.e. Striking) and that they actually fit 1, 2 ,3 maybe more scenario's and different ranges. Thank you for your Insight Ramsey
Holly molly. This is what i have been wandering all those years. I learned those moves but had no idea what they where. I love the archeological diging you are doing. That is adding a lot of meaning and purpose. Also. Waw. Amazing skills guys!
This is awesome. Going from wrestling to ITF TKD I realized the value of chambering the other fist very early on, and that what were defined as ‘blocks’ or ‘strikes’ can really be used interchangeably, especially when getting past the 9th or 10th patterns.
There a different kind of school around. Some focus only on sparring, some on poomsae (forms) and some on hosinsul (self-defense). My school is trying to do it all (which is a lot of work...) and we are trying to use poomsae in hosinsul where appropriate. On another note, we are taught that you should block as if it was a strike - fast and hard. So you can use the same movement as a strike or as a block, especially the knife hand.
Traditional martial arts is like a puzzle that you have to solve, you may have all the pieces and train it till you reach the "black belt". But not all of those black belts can solve the puzzle and crack the code....most of them just train like how their instructors teach...and thats why its considered inneffective
Remember finding a book either when I was training TKD or just after I stopped, the grappling of TKD. Aside from some basic breakouts we were never taught close plays or grappling. Not teaching and training grappling and weapons was a big part of why I eventually moved over to hema. It always felt strange to me that we were training forms, that were never applied in any kind of sparring.
Knife hand application were taught to me by Vinicio Antony, Machida's trainer, at a seminar in 2019, I even used them to trap a pankration guy after a sprawl an year later. But what to do next? The nukite was the hold you showed on your student
Check out the pre pandemic videos from Karate Culture on youtube, for a while they were posting videos exploring the forms and then sparing with them with a heavy emphasis on the grappling applications. They are a goldmine.
As an ITF Taekwondo practitioner and martial arts nerd, this is 100% something that should be done with every pattern of every martial art. I have started digging in the patterns of Taekwondo myself, and its absolutely amazing what you can find
I recently watched a series of videos showing the applications of all the movements in the tai chi form I was learning, turns out more than 80% of them were grappling/wrestling related.
Yeah taichi is mostly grappling. Its very rare that I run across people that actually know how to fight with it. Most people have a weak understanding of how it works. Its one of the best forms of standup grappling there is. You have to throw away the forms tho and do freestyle. The forms are misleading if your looking to use it for fighting. Keep the concepts of movement and scrap the forms once you understand how they work. Also taichi works best if you do strength training. Its not designed for a weak body. If your using it for health it doesn't matter tho.
@@siddharthqaz those are private instructional videos so I am not at liberty to share them, but I can share a short RUclips clip with the same teacher demonstrating some of the moves -> ruclips.net/video/75XQcOlEOAU/видео.html note that his demonstrations are a bit exaggerated to be more entertaining for an audience.
Actually, that upper hand block movement at 1:41 can also be used in a cross collar choke either from the guard or back mount in jiujitsu. It's one of those hidden techniques in Karate that I learned back when I was training in Shotokan.
I'm eternally grateful to you for helping me understand the purposes of these movements, Ramsey. For years, I eschewed forms and thought my old Tae Kwon Do training was impractical; boy was I wrong. I simply didn't understand the purpose of the movements I was practicing. You have radically changed the way I think about the relationship between different movements.
I know the fact that coach has a tae kwon do background but I am so impressed that coach also used the principle of karate called bunkai like how he analyze the form break it down actually applied it. Good job coach!
In addition to the upper block, you can also use the rising forearm portion to the face while the other hand controls the arm of your opponent. Prior to my 13th year in Kyokushin Karate which I'm still in, I did TKD for 5 years and several years Hakko Ryu Jujutsu which enable me to look more into depth of the katas. Yet, still a tons to learn, but so much variation that we as practitioners can discover....Respect for you Ramsey and to Mr. Chow.
Ashihara Karate actually specifically mentions the hand-sword as a guard frame, stuffing/blocking the opponent’s arm movements when u get in close. transitions really well into sleeve grabs & thus the reverse collar tie 👍
I took old school Tae Kwon Do in the 70s. The way our systems was taught, you learned kicking, punching, and all your forms white through 1st degree black belt. You were not passed unless you could increase the height of your kicks for each of your colored belts. When you continue on through the degrees, you learned Hapkido techniques. I was taught that the forms contained Hapkido techniques. Good job in extrapolating the techniques.
Another thing to consider about why it's "ignored" is Gichin Funakoshi. He explicitly wanted Shotokan to be a system less about fighting and more about personal and spiritual growth. I could easily see that resulting in just practicing techniques without learning how they apply. Now add a few generations and translate it to another language twice.
Ramsey, regarding the Chinese salute with the left open hand over the right fist; that is actually seen in TKD. Refer to the patterns Won Hyo and Joon-Gun. They both begin with a version of that salute.
thx man now i feel better traditional can be effective which is what i hope because these arts been around for so long thx Ramsey for showing us that these systems can work
This! This is what people miss in traditional martial arts. The forms make things look like strikes or blocks but are often bridges, lock, or throws. This is why learning application (from a reputable source) is so important! I practice Choy Li Fut with Sifu Mak Hin Fai. When we "chamber a punch" it's usually a pull or to unwind the strike to generate power...or both! Great vid!
Exactly. That's it. I never participated in tournaments way back when I studied TKD. The uses of the knife hand are open and practical. I approached knife hand as another form of open hand fighting.
I am glad there are those, like Ramsey, who realize these things about Tae Kwon Do. Tae Kwon Do was, and still is, an effective hand-to-hand combat system taught to the Korean military and was taught to our own Special Forces in the 1960's and 1970's. As a practitioner of more than 40 years, I can tell you that what you see today in the Olympics or other competitions is NOT THE SAME TKD that was created 70 years ago. And Ramsey, there are throws and grappling in Tae Kwon Do kata. And almost every striking technique involves pulling your attacker into the strike, as you demonstrated. The reason we don't see this in TKD today is because those techniques have been omitted from the teaching. Good video!
Karate (Including TKD) was created as a complete fighting system. The forms contain the flow, techniques and base knowledge of the art. Finding applications to those movements is an awesome way to expand the original system. I think there's no right and wrong answer to what a movement can be used for. If you can make it work, more power to you.
Was honestly shocked at how few people knew about the grappling aspects in these forms. Thanks, Ramsey for bringing this to light and even showing me a few applications I'd missed!
Hey Ramsey! This is a great video, thank you for making it. You shared a lot of solid information and context that help shed light on why karate and taekwondo have such odd looking structures in their forms. I think we can all reasonably assume that the "old masters" knew how to fight - those were different, violent times. If we also recognize that wrestling was extremely common in Okinawa ("tegumi"), it makes a lot of sense that the kata would include grappling techniques! I think it's also worth noting that the forms often contain things that were the creator's go-to methods for dealing with asocial violence (haymakers, grabs, tackles, chokes, and so on). They should therefore be applied with those things in mind rather than lunging straight punches or jumping spinning kicks (which is one reason why we NEVER see kata movements in sparring). Another important thing you mentioned was that the live training of karate and taekwondo, as it currently stands, is totally contrary to the rest of the curriculum. We practice blocks, strikes, throws, strangles, and all sorts of odd hand shapes in our class... but then sparring is just bad kickboxing. It's hard to apply a neck crank when you're a foot outside kicking range! If the traditional martial artists want to really be able to apply any of their techniques, they (we) need to train them live against our partners in the proper context - and we can't do that if we're foot-fencing. Well done again on the video.
@@Pyrela I'm using "foot-fencing" as a pejorative to refer to the tag-you're-it-now-reset style of sparring and competition popularized in the Olympics. Just as many HEMA students do not consider fencing to be representative of their weapon arts, I don't consider that style of competition to be representative of my open handed arts. To be clear, there is nothing inherently wrong with point sparring/competition. If everyone involved is having fun, that's a good thing. It just isn't for me.
Ramsey, you have filled my wrestler heart with joy! Those goju ryu guys always seemed to have a lot in common with us, now I see they had even more than I thought .
This was very interesting and glad you are doing some deep dives into why these moves have been around so long. Almost like deciphering a code...thanks!!
This context also makes the retraction of the counter punching hand (before you trike) make sense as well- not only is it sort of like winding it up like boxing (move the shoulder back before you explode your punch from it), but also it keeps it away from being grappled by the opponent like retracting a spear when an opponent is closing in.
My background is shotokan, so I was taught that open hand techniques implied a grab. With that in mind, I would practice these as parries with a grab to the wrist. This is an interesting take, and I'll probably give it a try!
Where I trained TKD we were "ITF" style. Besides supplementing Judo, we were taught these 1-step sparring techniques that implement these grab and strike combos. While we sparred continuously, I can't recall anyone seriously attempting to use them in live sparring. I don't think it was explicitly disallowed either.
When Covid struck we dusted off our forms including the weapons forms. To train while keeping a distance. We found quite a lot of really good technique applications i the forms. Some of them really different from what i had been given when i was learning the forms my selv. And yes when got the chance to train the movements with a partner a lot of them worked as we trained them. Good video btw.
Yes yes yes! I've been a Goju Karateka for nearly 12 years and I'm only just starting to unravel this stuff myself! It's so great finally seeing the old school stuff getting revived. Great great work as always gentlemen! P.S. Another clue to the knife-hand/collar tie connection: In my school, we were taught to draw the knife-hand back in toward us (like a slicing knife), i.e. snatching the head down to disrupt their posture!
Actually it was not so much as forgotten as it was changed after WW2. Before WW2, the more effective Bunkai for Karate kata which included an equal mix of grappling and striking applications was taught. And those applications were brutal. But as Karate was introduced to Japan and then slightly modified to be taught widespread to younger children, there became different layers to the applications, with the more dangerous versions being taught later on, when the student was older and more advanced in their training. But later on, after WW2, quite a few Japanese and Okinawans that taught military servicemen from America and European countries, incorrectly taught them basic level applications on purpose. And since Arts like TKD and TSD were heavily based upon Shotõkan Karate, the applications of their own Poomse, Tul, and Hyung contained the same basic level, and somewhat diluted applications to the movements. Thankfully there are quite a few Instructors in both TKD and TSD, just like in Karate, that have devoted time to rediscovering those original movements and applications contained in those various forms. And in arts like TKD, I think they would regain alot more wider respect if the instructors taught the art's curriculum more completely, rather than just streamlining it to what is currently popular or trendy.
like wing chung, in a street fight you usually square up, well square on. so parring and blitz punching to gain intial ground and set into stance, boxing kicking etc. i think wing chung was only designed for close combat. This was an eye opener episode
Awesome video coach! My brother in law use to practice TKD and years ago I was mentioning the same thing to him. Funakoshi Sensei, the founder of Shotokan was a student of Anto Azato and also Anko Itotsu. His teachers where students themselves of Sokkon Matsumura with whom Funakoshi studied breifly. Matsumura was also a master of Jigen Ryu Kenjutsu and had also studied Chun Fa in China and Jujutsu and the sword in Japan. This why karate and in turn TKD converges with grappling disciplines, unfortunately these are aspects that are often neglected both in modern Karate and TKD.
Hi Mr. Dewey, I saw your video and I saw the channel one minute bunkai. I also found a a channel called traditional taekwondo ramblings. He has a playlist called practical poomsae applications. He explains forms and how are they used in grappling. I’d love to hear your opinion on that as well. And I know you talked about it. But, I started with taekwondo and I’m trying to get down the grappling in every form that I learned. It’s a game changer. Thank you for everything and thanks in advance Ahmed
In my TKD system Chang Moo Kwan goes back as far as before the 1970’s. We train basic moves, forms, sparring using hands and feet to the stomach up to the head, and self defense forms of grappling and striking. Our TKD is closer to ITF/self defense vs WTF/olympic.
Thank you. This is very helpful and informative. Thank you for taking your time to show how traditional martial arts work properly. Unfortunately the sports don't represent the arts very well.
2:55-3:05 of Tim Witherspoon analysis of Ali/Foreman rounds 1-3. Ali uses a double knife hand. Clinching foreman's lead arm and controlling the head. He does it often.
Shotokai here. Our bunkai is quite similar to this demonstration as well :D great to see Ramsey doing these "bunseki". Shuto uke (knife hand) can be a damaging strike for more "fragile" bones, like the clavicle, the orbital, maybe the trachea... But Ramsey's interpretation is a bit more realistic.
3:27 Like the concept in wing chun of "elbow control" control of both your own and their elbows. You can use more of your body weight and structure, if you know how to use your elbows and you can manipulate their structure more too, with THEIR elbows. Like how you armdrag by grabbing behind the opponents elbow or bicep area, instead of trying to drag their forearm
Yes it actually has many uses across many different arts, mostly originally comes from long fist, and wing Chuns "giving hand" and "receiving hand". Which in those arts they begin by being trained to use one hand for defense and the other hand for attack then they learn to switch it up and the eventual goal is to be able to attack or defend either side with each hand.
In Daito Ryu Jiu-Jitsu the hand comes back to the waist to draw a weapon and a Soto chop is a short sword strike, a poke with the thumb is a stab with a dagger, and a two-handed chop is a strike with a longsword or sometimes a staff or a spear.
In Tang Soo Do we often focus on these applications a whole lot more than taekwondo schools do. Our association also teaches one steps which are a bunch of single move applications with partners. We also often cover korean hapkido on the side which is stand up grappling. Sadly we don't do much ground work so I need to supplement there.
That Gangnam Style in the end killed me. The whole thing reminds me a lot of various Tai Chi forms (or sections of forms) which, as you have mentioned yourself at some point, is very much a grappling martial art, thought it has some strikes too.
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This feels like a martial arts version of archeology. Digging through the layers of obscurity left by time and misinformation to find out what's hidden underneath.
I've been comparing it to HEMA efforts to rediscover European Swordfighting - the same careful process of observation, extrapolation, and testing, usually by comparing it to other arts
Yep. Would love to see more of this. I'm guessing a lot of the really unusual looking Kung Fu forms from various styles are full of this stuff.
@@ellentheeducator If people just realized how much value there is in playing around with the stuff and seeing what makes sense... Its all there and that is how it was done to start.
@@krowback I’m doubtful over how “full”. When cultures are suppressed and regulated by an ideologically-driven government for so long and has been intentionally supplanted by flashy dances and magic tricks, the original practices are incredibly obscured, mutated, or completely lost. Relatively less flashy forms could have some worthwhile parts, but I really doubt that balancing on a staff and doing silly monkey poses was ever used anywhere but a stage.
@@MynameisBrianZX Ramsey has done a video about hung ga stances and forms and how the goofy super low stance stance with your lead hand all the way out and the other hovering over your hear suddenly make perfect sense if you do the movements with a sword and shield in your hands. I think many of the more whacky kung fu styles were originally supposed to be practiced with weapons and not empty-handed. A shitty vertical overhand becomes a sword-slash, a windmill wave with both arms becomes a parrying motion if you imagine a staff or spear between your hands.
But yeah a lot of kung fu was definitely invented for Hong Kong opera and later continued in kung fu films.
The first time I saw this application something awakened in me. Suddenly all the techniques in karate katas turned out to be a 70% more effective in delf defense and combat situations, but it also improved my sport karate too. It feels like becoming a white belt again and studying the martial art becomes 200% interesting. Great video!
That's the problem with traditional this is basic knowledge that is not being taught to the students
@@jonjames5411 Nailed it! So many instructors don't teach the application, because they don't know the application. They are repeating what they were taught, and who knows if their instructor knew the actual application. Somewhere in the past, someone's instructor either wasn't paying attention, or simply wasn't taught the actual uses for these techniques. Doesn't help the poor translation between the chinese/japanese/korean into other languages. Like "Uke" doesn't mean "block" it means "to receive" which could be done with a block, parry, strike, grab, etc.
Most karate/tkd schools these days are sport focused or just daycare with kicks. Kata/hyung/tul are more interpretive dance routines, because the bunkai/bunhae isn't taught. Then you have some who don't really know what they're talking about spreading the "its a fight between 8 opponents" nonsense.
Its great to see Ramsey showing things like this - seems to be an awakening among the traditional martial arts folks, slow but sure.
@@SasquatchTX You summed it up even better
Yeah. Lotta people do not understand the concepts behind the forms. There is more grappling in many of them than people realise
@@SasquatchTX There are those of us out there who do get it, but unfortunately any clubs that have people who understand this are often outnumbered by the McDojos and it gets extremely political what is taught and how, you'd be surprised how much of a rift there is over the most basic of things like stances. I won't go into too much detail with the situation in my club compared to the others but it's really unfortunate since it's the people who bring in the numbers that get to dictate everything within the association.
That's so genius. Like Jesse Enkamp says a lot of things got lost, when Karate got modernized in Japan. The Takedowns where almost removed, because there was Judo. The weaposn because there was Kendo, etc. And left was only the striking and the forms/kata that have all the grappling knowledge in but kinda lost on the way
EXACTLYYYYYY I LOVE PPL LIKE YOU THAT GET IF
You´re absolutely right. The martial art Karate got crippled because it had to fit in into a sport and gentleman-society. In the old days, before it was even named Karate it´s name was Koppojutsu. It had a much more free and dynamic way of fighting not excluding anything from the universe of fighting-techniques.
as a taekwondo practicioner myself, I love these traditional martial arts applications and I'd love to see more
Have a look, if you haven't already, at Anthony Vinicio, Iain Abernethy, and Jesse Enkamp. Because of the Karate - Taekwondo roots in common, you will be able to transfer most of the applications.
@@juanenriqueordonezarnau1087 thanks
Same here
@@juanenriqueordonezarnau1087 Russ martin, Stuart anslow (chang hon taekwondo hae sul) are also good options, if looking for more direct TKD applications. Both are on youtube.
Wow. I think he is absolutely right. Does make a lot of sense. Especially the details of the „strikes“ only make real sense when you use it for entering like that. Really cool
Once I started training Judo, all of my Taekwondo forms made so much more sense! I knew the collar tie idea but that transfer to a reverse or a full nelson I havent thought of from those same 2 movements. Thank you so much cant wait to add these in!
What level are you
@@donaldburnettburnett7234 red about to be black belt
That makes a lot more sense now.
I once used the Taekwondo high block to defend myself from a garage door that was falling shut on on my head. It was effective.
If it gives you the results you need, then that’s the right way!
High block is a very natural movement.
As a taekwondo practitioner myself, I love to see this. Some of this is explained, but a lot of it is not and I'd like to be more proficient overall and not just for tournaments. Thank you for furthering my knowledge base.
Awesome! As a long time Goju-Ryu karate practitioner I'm glad to see more people talking about the grappling! It's an aspect of the martial art that I'm very interested in and have devoted a good amount of time to working with. One of the instructors showed me a few of the grappling techniques in our "H-Pattern" simple forms, and after that I started to notice that most of the kata that I knew were comprised largely of different grappling forms, which I started to apply in sparring. All of those low, wide stances? Throws and takedowns. Cool stuff!
i’m also a Goju Ryu practitioner, I have found cross training in boxing compliments Goju-Ryu very well they can blend together , i’m just not that good at boxing and only a little better at karate
@@oldschoolkarate-5o
I’m also a long time Goju Ryu practitioner. I wrestled in high school and did street based boxing. Later on I fell into Goju Ryu, Wing Chun, and WW combatives. I found my my blend of the aforementioned styles invaluable to me. For example, when I practice Gekisai kata, after the rising forearm strike and punch, I immediately follow up with 5-7 chain punches from Wing Chun. Works for me! I had fight in my junior year and one in my freshman year of college. I won both fights nearly instantly with a “duck under tight waist throw”. Keep training!
@PRIESTBOKMEI thanks my man , I would like to do some grappling classes at a gym ,but i do grapple with my friends . one does no gi jui jitsu and a few of them wrestled in high school . that’s cool you have trained in all those styles
@@oldschoolkarate-5o @PRIESTBOKMEI
I've also found cross training invaluable, as I think it is across martial arts. I did a few years of BJJ, some boxing, muay thai, and have recently been picking up Judo again. I really want to find a good wrestling gym, but the people who go the ones in my area are not good people, so I continue my search.
I've had a lot of luck with the gyaku shuto in Gekisai Dai Ichi. In close proximity it makes for a wonderful sweep. And those low zenkutsu dachi stances at the end have worked great for me as throws.
@@oldschoolkarate-5o glad that worked for you but my teachers in Japan kept yelling at me for throwing hooks. xD
The wrestling techniques in kata, we can safe to say that they had been ignored and forgotten. The black belts today, 99.9% won't know anything about what their kata means and their application.
You are doing good work to rediscover the meaning of kata.
One crazy thing about kata's as well is how they're training your muscle memory so you can even handle weapons, Shotokan kata techniques to one degree or another can be done with tonfa, sai or staff, was fascinated looking at some of the demonstrations on youtube regarding that.
You should really check out Jesse Enkamp if you haven't! He's big into kata/bunkai.
It actually not so hidden, because there is also like that in kung fu, the origin of karate
@@kakuto435 You even mentioned kung fu 😂 in karate origin. Kung fu is the basic, karate use kung fu as base, sure there are local style incorporated in karate, but they used kung fu as base
In our search to determine bunkai, we are often ignoring documents evidence while looking to make our tradition martial arts more effective than they are, with highly interpretive efforts to adapt kata to effective techniques.
Yeah, this is something that confused me about ITF patterns in my time there. The patterns, in addition to "hidden" techniques like this, explicitly have knee strikes, elbow strikes, throws, hooks; techniques that were never ever ever represented in sparring. Seemed like a strange oversight, particularly for a school that claimed to be as close to Gen. Choi Hong Hi as they stated. The head instructor got his 6th degree from the man directly.
The more you know
I feel the same way about Tai chi, honestly. When I first began learning, I was skeptical that it was good for combat, until I started using it in jujitsu class.
I remember my sparring partner tried to double leg, and I reflexively sank into a horse stance and shoved him downward, with more effectiveness than I expected from the technique. I was like: ah, this makes much more sense, now
The horse stance can also be used as a step-in to initiate a takedown - step in a low horse stance with your front leg in past their front leg and under their back leg, and you can throw them down by pulling on their hip and front leg and twisting your hip. It’s really interesting!
then you woke up right?
Thats absird. Horse stance is the opposite of what you want to do to stop a double leg. Your training partner does not know how to perform a double leg takedown.
@@vids595 Then why do wrestlers use the horse stance?
I think it's so interesting to see the often ignored concept of pulling applied. Usually, the tendence is to push away, to get rid of the problem, but pulling to our own zone gives us a whole new lot of posibilities.
Love these videos, great as always! 🙏🏻
It's cool to see you and jesse talk about how movements in the foorms/katas are supposed to be utilized. I did taekwondo for a while, but it wasn't until I started wingchun that I noticed some similarities. And then started to apply wingchun and escrima movements into my sparring. Those collar ties became more pronounced. I have a wrestling background, so this also became more useful.
I've learned over time that all martial arts especially Chinese martial arts are grappling arts.
@@astonprice-lockhart7261 Thats a very interesting comment. It actually has many layers of nuance... Also, a lot of perspectives from which we can understand the meaning of the comment.
Ill start: The oldest indigenious martial arts we know of are wrestling arts... Mongolian wrestling, Shao Jiao, Sumo, etc. Wrestling was often an adjunct to military training... Eventually the Greeks decided that Apollo's temple was such that one could show greatness by fist fighting for individual glory. This took the idea of sport fighting in a new direction... prior to Apollo the Spartans used boxing as a means of training as a team, for toughness and such.
As I posted, the very idea of striking versus grappling can at times be a false dichotomy. A knife hand is a strike and it is a grab... if one fights with a reverse punch one usually learns fairly quickly that to use the technique against an opponent who wants to brain ya, you best grab him with the other hand and pull/push him into position as you square your shoulders up when throwing the blow... Otherwise you wind up square and exposed to boxing techniques.
@@dsimon33871 Facts. Also it makes sense because you could spar and avoid major injuries. Besides closing the distance to avoid being struck is a common go to. All those are great points. Thank you!
@@astonprice-lockhart7261 no, they are not they striking arts first then weapons then grappling last.
@@astonprice-lockhart7261 or at least they contain grappling (despite people not recognizing it)
Any video with Jourdan is always a treat!
Also! I've thought about these forms for the longest time, and just now I see why learning and practicing them is important. Great video!
Really appreciate the links to previous videos that expand upon the techniques involved. Saves you going through it all again but allows us to refresh if we need to. Good production to match useful info TY coach
You know. After learning that Tang Soo do is actually shotokan karate with taekwondo.... I been seeing it everywhere.... And I love it.
This makes more sense than what my senseis told me.
I find "practical" bunkai very interesting, but I think it's worth pointing out to people learning TKD and/or karate (or tai chi or whatever style) that the theoretical presence of applications in the kata doesn't mean you're training the techniques. The fact that a kata may "have" a certain grappling movement doesn't mean you can use it; you're actually going to have to get out there and train in high-resistance sparring/rolling to get anything out of it.
I mention this because I often encounter people who tell me "I don't need jiujitsu or judo or wrestling because my tai chi (or karate, insert whatever style you like here) has grappling in it." A lot of guys are basically looking to check off boxes in order to make their styles appear more "complete" than they really are. The fact that a kata may or may not have significant grappling content is really something of scholarly, not practical, importance. Perhaps karateka 200 years ago really did train significant grappling, and that's fantastic, good for them, but it does little for the modern guy who just repeats these motions, likely without even recognizing what they are, ad infinitum.
As a former Taekwondo practitioner, I appreciate this showcase of the practicality of the forms. I had a very traditional instructor who took this kind of approach.
Very cool to see. I am very fortunate to be in a TKD school that our instructor has turned away from the modern sport WTF and reverted more to the original form. Yes we do go into take downs, a little grappling and joint manipulation. And yes we do punch to the face during sparing. With body armour of coarse.
Very nice! This is the way.
@@mortalkomment8028 this is the way
Iain Abernethy has video on knife hand blocks (shuto uke in japanese) and he shows the exact samething. He also shows that it can also be used for arm clearance to get a shot in.
My MMA coach used to be a Taekwondo master. He taught me a lot of good techniques that I implemented to my Muay Thai style. It's pretty neat.
Taekwondo competition needs a complete overhaul and ought to be reworked to improve the full application of what Taekwondo is and can be to include grappling, take downs and follow on strikes minus the hogu and headgear.
If you're going to go into Shotokan with more of your videos Ramsey, please please talk about how important hip movement, body weight distribution in stances is for generating powerful techniques, really interesting stuff, most people who look at Shotokan just do the motions and think that's all there is to it.
Most people? Oh man… my shotokan teacher was one of those crazy one-hit one kill, 10,000% power in every strike kind of guys.
@@RamseyDewey LOL I totally get you, the Japanese instructors are insane and luckily/unluckily so are my own, unfortunately when it comes to traditional shotokan especially the standards vary wildly in the west which I think is why a lot of the MMA lot think traditional martial arts suck. By the way, random thing but I often watch this channel called Kuro-Obi World and there's a lot of nice information there. The guy doing demo stuff and learning from other styles naka sensei just recently uploaded a video on Maegeri.
@@RamseyDewey look up Iain Abernathy and Andy Allen
This is so awesome, I learnt taekwondo long time ago, then switched to other martial arts and just thought those techniques are fantasy. This makes me want to decode all those pumses I learnt.
One of the things I love about your stuff is you see that forms are not just the most obvious thing (i.e. Striking) and that they actually fit 1, 2 ,3 maybe more scenario's and different ranges. Thank you for your Insight Ramsey
Holly molly. This is what i have been wandering all those years. I learned those moves but had no idea what they where.
I love the archeological diging you are doing. That is adding a lot of meaning and purpose.
Also. Waw. Amazing skills guys!
This is awesome. Going from wrestling to ITF TKD I realized the value of chambering the other fist very early on, and that what were defined as ‘blocks’ or ‘strikes’ can really be used interchangeably, especially when getting past the 9th or 10th patterns.
There a different kind of school around. Some focus only on sparring, some on poomsae (forms) and some on hosinsul (self-defense). My school is trying to do it all (which is a lot of work...) and we are trying to use poomsae in hosinsul where appropriate. On another note, we are taught that you should block as if it was a strike - fast and hard. So you can use the same movement as a strike or as a block, especially the knife hand.
Traditional martial arts is like a puzzle that you have to solve, you may have all the pieces and train it till you reach the "black belt". But not all of those black belts can solve the puzzle and crack the code....most of them just train like how their instructors teach...and thats why its considered inneffective
Spot on mate
Remember finding a book either when I was training TKD or just after I stopped, the grappling of TKD. Aside from some basic breakouts we were never taught close plays or grappling. Not teaching and training grappling and weapons was a big part of why I eventually moved over to hema. It always felt strange to me that we were training forms, that were never applied in any kind of sparring.
Knife hand application were taught to me by Vinicio Antony, Machida's trainer, at a seminar in 2019, I even used them to trap a pankration guy after a sprawl an year later. But what to do next? The nukite was the hold you showed on your student
Check out the pre pandemic videos from Karate Culture on youtube, for a while they were posting videos exploring the forms and then sparing with them with a heavy emphasis on the grappling applications. They are a goldmine.
As an ITF Taekwondo practitioner and martial arts nerd, this is 100% something that should be done with every pattern of every martial art. I have started digging in the patterns of Taekwondo myself, and its absolutely amazing what you can find
I recently watched a series of videos showing the applications of all the movements in the tai chi form I was learning, turns out more than 80% of them were grappling/wrestling related.
Everyone is always shocked to learn that taijiquan is a grappling art! I sure was.
Yeah taichi is mostly grappling. Its very rare that I run across people that actually know how to fight with it. Most people have a weak understanding of how it works. Its one of the best forms of standup grappling there is. You have to throw away the forms tho and do freestyle. The forms are misleading if your looking to use it for fighting. Keep the concepts of movement and scrap the forms once you understand how they work. Also taichi works best if you do strength training. Its not designed for a weak body. If your using it for health it doesn't matter tho.
My wrestling coach calls it combat tai chi
Have a source for that vid?
@@siddharthqaz those are private instructional videos so I am not at liberty to share them, but I can share a short RUclips clip with the same teacher demonstrating some of the moves -> ruclips.net/video/75XQcOlEOAU/видео.html note that his demonstrations are a bit exaggerated to be more entertaining for an audience.
As someone who has practiced the basic block forms I found this very insightful.
Great video! I love seeing explanations of how misunderstood moves in traditional arts make sense.
Actually, that upper hand block movement at 1:41 can also be used in a cross collar choke either from the guard or back mount in jiujitsu. It's one of those hidden techniques in Karate that I learned back when I was training in Shotokan.
I'm eternally grateful to you for helping me understand the purposes of these movements, Ramsey. For years, I eschewed forms and thought my old Tae Kwon Do training was impractical; boy was I wrong. I simply didn't understand the purpose of the movements I was practicing. You have radically changed the way I think about the relationship between different movements.
I know the fact that coach has a tae kwon do background but I am so impressed that coach also used the principle of karate called bunkai like how he analyze the form break it down actually applied it. Good job coach!
Interesting. Awesome video Ramsey Dewey.
In addition to the upper block, you can also use the rising forearm portion to the face while the other hand controls the arm of your opponent. Prior to my 13th year in Kyokushin Karate which I'm still in, I did TKD for 5 years and several years Hakko Ryu Jujutsu which enable me to look more into depth of the katas. Yet, still a tons to learn, but so much variation that we as practitioners can discover....Respect for you Ramsey and to Mr. Chow.
Ashihara Karate actually specifically mentions the hand-sword as a guard frame, stuffing/blocking the opponent’s arm movements when u get in close. transitions really well into sleeve grabs & thus the reverse collar tie 👍
I took old school Tae Kwon Do in the 70s. The way our systems was taught, you learned kicking, punching, and all your forms white through 1st degree black belt. You were not passed unless you could increase the height of your kicks for each of your colored belts. When you continue on through the degrees, you learned Hapkido techniques. I was taught that the forms contained Hapkido techniques. Good job in extrapolating the techniques.
Another thing to consider about why it's "ignored" is Gichin Funakoshi. He explicitly wanted Shotokan to be a system less about fighting and more about personal and spiritual growth. I could easily see that resulting in just practicing techniques without learning how they apply. Now add a few generations and translate it to another language twice.
Ramsey, regarding the Chinese salute with the left open hand over the right fist; that is actually seen in TKD. Refer to the patterns Won Hyo and Joon-Gun. They both begin with a version of that salute.
2:48 Absolute Morpheus moment, it's like he's shattering my entire understanding of karate and tkd
thx man now i feel better traditional can be effective which is what i hope because these arts been around for so long thx Ramsey for showing us that these systems can work
This! This is what people miss in traditional martial arts. The forms make things look like strikes or blocks but are often bridges, lock, or throws. This is why learning application (from a reputable source) is so important! I practice Choy Li Fut with Sifu Mak Hin Fai. When we "chamber a punch" it's usually a pull or to unwind the strike to generate power...or both! Great vid!
You're my hero Ramsey! You should become a superhero action stunt coordinator for movies!
Exactly. That's it. I never participated in tournaments way back when I studied TKD. The uses of the knife hand are open and practical. I approached knife hand as another form of open hand fighting.
I would love to see a playlist of all of your videos talking about this.
I was never taught THESE secrets.WOW,THANK YOU for this lesson.
Kwonkicker: taekwondo for kickboxing
Ramsey: taekwondo for wrestling
I am glad there are those, like Ramsey, who realize these things about Tae Kwon Do. Tae Kwon Do was, and still is, an effective hand-to-hand combat system taught to the Korean military and was taught to our own Special Forces in the 1960's and 1970's. As a practitioner of more than 40 years, I can tell you that what you see today in the Olympics or other competitions is NOT THE SAME TKD that was created 70 years ago. And Ramsey, there are throws and grappling in Tae Kwon Do kata. And almost every striking technique involves pulling your attacker into the strike, as you demonstrated. The reason we don't see this in TKD today is because those techniques have been omitted from the teaching. Good video!
This video was great. One of my Taekwondo masters had told me about this application of knife hand attacks as well.
Karate (Including TKD) was created as a complete fighting system. The forms contain the flow, techniques and base knowledge of the art. Finding applications to those movements is an awesome way to expand the original system. I think there's no right and wrong answer to what a movement can be used for. If you can make it work, more power to you.
Was honestly shocked at how few people knew about the grappling aspects in these forms. Thanks, Ramsey for bringing this to light and even showing me a few applications I'd missed!
Great applications of traditional forms. Good to see you are doing well Jourdan!
Reinterpreting the old and outmoded blocking and punching techniques used in taekwondo and karate, in the light of effective MMA.
These breakdowns are so cool! Gives me a lot of material and new ways to THINK martial arts. Keep doing what you're doing Coach!
Hey Ramsey! This is a great video, thank you for making it. You shared a lot of solid information and context that help shed light on why karate and taekwondo have such odd looking structures in their forms. I think we can all reasonably assume that the "old masters" knew how to fight - those were different, violent times. If we also recognize that wrestling was extremely common in Okinawa ("tegumi"), it makes a lot of sense that the kata would include grappling techniques!
I think it's also worth noting that the forms often contain things that were the creator's go-to methods for dealing with asocial violence (haymakers, grabs, tackles, chokes, and so on). They should therefore be applied with those things in mind rather than lunging straight punches or jumping spinning kicks (which is one reason why we NEVER see kata movements in sparring).
Another important thing you mentioned was that the live training of karate and taekwondo, as it currently stands, is totally contrary to the rest of the curriculum. We practice blocks, strikes, throws, strangles, and all sorts of odd hand shapes in our class... but then sparring is just bad kickboxing. It's hard to apply a neck crank when you're a foot outside kicking range! If the traditional martial artists want to really be able to apply any of their techniques, they (we) need to train them live against our partners in the proper context - and we can't do that if we're foot-fencing.
Well done again on the video.
Foot-fencing? You mean Savate? lol Which, coincidentally, is where Jesse Enkamp says karate got a lot of it's kicking from.
@@Pyrela I'm using "foot-fencing" as a pejorative to refer to the tag-you're-it-now-reset style of sparring and competition popularized in the Olympics. Just as many HEMA students do not consider fencing to be representative of their weapon arts, I don't consider that style of competition to be representative of my open handed arts. To be clear, there is nothing inherently wrong with point sparring/competition. If everyone involved is having fun, that's a good thing. It just isn't for me.
Fascinating,it still blows my mind that we were told to do those movements had completely different reasons then how they were supposed to be used.
Ramsey, you have filled my wrestler heart with joy! Those goju ryu guys always seemed to have a lot in common with us, now I see they had even more than I thought .
Great video. I finally have an understanding of those 'blocks'
i LOVE that x block at the beginning you showed, im definitely gonna try that soon
This was very interesting and glad you are doing some deep dives into why these moves have been around so long. Almost like deciphering a code...thanks!!
Amazing! Many things about these forms were completly forgotten, and there aren't many karate schools teachings the actual stuff.
This context also makes the retraction of the counter punching hand (before you trike) make sense as well- not only is it sort of like winding it up like boxing (move the shoulder back before you explode your punch from it), but also it keeps it away from being grappled by the opponent like retracting a spear when an opponent is closing in.
My background is shotokan, so I was taught that open hand techniques implied a grab. With that in mind, I would practice these as parries with a grab to the wrist. This is an interesting take, and I'll probably give it a try!
I love that opening.
Ramsey Dewey out here teaching better taekwondo than most taekwondo instructors
Ramsey becoming better than the old tkd teachers at teaching the actual meaning behind these strikes or blocks
Where I trained TKD we were "ITF" style. Besides supplementing Judo, we were taught these 1-step sparring techniques that implement these grab and strike combos. While we sparred continuously, I can't recall anyone seriously attempting to use them in live sparring. I don't think it was explicitly disallowed either.
I love the Taekwondo themed videos lately.
When Covid struck we dusted off our forms including the weapons forms. To train while keeping a distance. We found quite a lot of really good technique applications i the forms. Some of them really different from what i had been given when i was learning the forms my selv. And yes when got the chance to train the movements with a partner a lot of them worked as we trained them.
Good video btw.
Wow nice insight, I'm definitely use it on my jiujitsu roll this weekend
Yes yes yes! I've been a Goju Karateka for nearly 12 years and I'm only just starting to unravel this stuff myself! It's so great finally seeing the old school stuff getting revived. Great great work as always gentlemen!
P.S. Another clue to the knife-hand/collar tie connection: In my school, we were taught to draw the knife-hand back in toward us (like a slicing knife), i.e. snatching the head down to disrupt their posture!
Actually it was not so much as forgotten as it was changed after WW2. Before WW2, the more effective Bunkai for Karate kata which included an equal mix of grappling and striking applications was taught. And those applications were brutal.
But as Karate was introduced to Japan and then slightly modified to be taught widespread to younger children, there became different layers to the applications, with the more dangerous versions being taught later on, when the student was older and more advanced in their training.
But later on, after WW2, quite a few Japanese and Okinawans that taught military servicemen from America and European countries, incorrectly taught them basic level applications on purpose. And since Arts like TKD and TSD were heavily based upon Shotõkan Karate, the applications of their own Poomse, Tul, and Hyung contained the same basic level, and somewhat diluted applications to the movements.
Thankfully there are quite a few Instructors in both TKD and TSD, just like in Karate, that have devoted time to rediscovering those original movements and applications contained in those various forms. And in arts like TKD, I think they would regain alot more wider respect if the instructors taught the art's curriculum more completely, rather than just streamlining it to what is currently popular or trendy.
Everyone should check out Iain Abernathey he does an amazing job breaking down kata for self defense purposes. Better than I have ever seen.
Great video. Always interesting to see real applications of TMA kata
like wing chung, in a street fight you usually square up, well square on. so parring and blitz punching to gain intial ground and set into stance, boxing kicking etc.
i think wing chung was only designed for close combat.
This was an eye opener episode
Awesome video coach! My brother in law use to practice TKD and years ago I was mentioning the same thing to him.
Funakoshi Sensei, the founder of Shotokan was a student of Anto Azato and also Anko Itotsu. His teachers where students themselves of Sokkon Matsumura with whom Funakoshi studied breifly. Matsumura was also a master of Jigen Ryu Kenjutsu and had also studied Chun Fa in China and Jujutsu and the sword in Japan. This why karate and in turn TKD converges with grappling disciplines, unfortunately these are aspects that are often neglected both in modern Karate and TKD.
Hi Mr. Dewey,
I saw your video and I saw the channel one minute bunkai. I also found a a channel called traditional taekwondo ramblings. He has a playlist called practical poomsae applications. He explains forms and how are they used in grappling. I’d love to hear your opinion on that as well. And I know you talked about it. But, I started with taekwondo and I’m trying to get down the grappling in every form that I learned. It’s a game changer. Thank you for everything and thanks in advance
Ahmed
In my TKD system Chang Moo Kwan goes back as far as before the 1970’s. We train basic moves, forms, sparring using hands and feet to the stomach up to the head, and self defense forms of grappling and striking. Our TKD is closer to ITF/self defense vs WTF/olympic.
Thank you. This is very helpful and informative. Thank you for taking your time to show how traditional martial arts work properly. Unfortunately the sports don't represent the arts very well.
2:55-3:05 of Tim Witherspoon analysis of Ali/Foreman rounds 1-3.
Ali uses a double knife hand. Clinching foreman's lead arm and controlling the head. He does it often.
Holy shit! The 3/4 Nelson at 5:25 is the quote in quote “spear hand” in Sa jang.
The nukite 'strike' works for getting an arm drag, but also might lead into a type of hammerlock.
Man, Jordan Chow is BACK!!!
Shotokai here. Our bunkai is quite similar to this demonstration as well :D great to see Ramsey doing these "bunseki".
Shuto uke (knife hand) can be a damaging strike for more "fragile" bones, like the clavicle, the orbital, maybe the trachea... But Ramsey's interpretation is a bit more realistic.
3:27 Like the concept in wing chun of "elbow control" control of both your own and their elbows. You can use more of your body weight and structure, if you know how to use your elbows and you can manipulate their structure more too, with THEIR elbows. Like how you armdrag by grabbing behind the opponents elbow or bicep area, instead of trying to drag their forearm
Yes it actually has many uses across many different arts, mostly originally comes from long fist, and wing Chuns "giving hand" and "receiving hand". Which in those arts they begin by being trained to use one hand for defense and the other hand for attack then they learn to switch it up and the eventual goal is to be able to attack or defend either side with each hand.
Nicely done again man. Dude. This is why I watch.
In Daito Ryu Jiu-Jitsu the hand comes back to the waist to draw a weapon and a Soto chop is a short sword strike, a poke with the thumb is a stab with a dagger, and a two-handed chop is a strike with a longsword or sometimes a staff or a spear.
In Tang Soo Do we often focus on these applications a whole lot more than taekwondo schools do. Our association also teaches one steps which are a bunch of single move applications with partners. We also often cover korean hapkido on the side which is stand up grappling. Sadly we don't do much ground work so I need to supplement there.
You went full TKD nerd! This was great, thank you.
That Gangnam Style in the end killed me.
The whole thing reminds me a lot of various Tai Chi forms (or sections of forms) which, as you have mentioned yourself at some point, is very much a grappling martial art, thought it has some strikes too.