Creating Good TONE QUALITY with Loud Chordal Passages
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- In this video, we tackle the concept of how to create a large, round, and rich sound in loud chordal passages. Very often, students will present loud passages in a harsh manner, or, in an attempt to NOT create a harsh sound, will end up producing a very thin and brittle sound. We discuss ways to not only create sound properly at the piano, but ideas for balance, shape, and rubato to enhance the perceived tone quality of the passage.
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The example you showed at the end about voicing the top of the weak inversion was kind of an epiphany for me. Definitely going to try these ideas out when I practice. Thanks for the tips!
This topic is so important and extremely hard to master, thank you Josh!
When you spoke of dropping fingers from above the piano at 0:52, I immediately thought of Grigory Sokolov!
A very rich and instructive video as usual, but this one particularly appealed to me. I often had this tought in loud passages : "how not to saturate the sound and the perception of the sound ?". I sometimes easily let myself pouding too much in search of this so called "rich sound". Your insights are very helpful, and thank you for what you are doing on this channel, it's a great source of inspiration !
Thank you for this great video Josh!
Very informative and a very good summary of all the times you talked about this topic in passing
Very insightful, Thank you!
Perfect, i am learning that rachmaninov prelude :D thank you!!
Do you mean prelude 3 no 2
Yes
Thank you for all your I guess I could call them demonstrations via video. This one helped me to tune my ears in which is still a work in progress.
Didn't know I needed this, thank you very much : )
Can't wait for liebesleid ;D
Super timely! just been working on this piece and getting to this part :) Thanks so much for sharing this with us!
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
I really appreciate your concise explanation and clear examples! I have had issues in the past particularly with young boy students who love to produce « big sound ». This video offered a lot of points I look forward to sharing with them!
the demonstrations you showed were so good! I can really tell a difference when there's more attention to shaping. I'm always shy playing forte passages and will definitely work on my tone with these tips
Great topic, Josh. Greetings from Brazil! 🎹🇧🇷♥️
Can you do some tutorials for rachmaninoff piano concerto no 2 2nd and 3rd movement? Pleas? Thank you for tips!
Great advice! And finally I understand what a "golden sound" really means. Thank you!
" Russian Bells" of Rachmaninov ...wonderful example. These chords should sound like Bells, actually a little bit metallic...This proves that playing piano is actually a complex thing, not only for brain and fingers, but also for the whole boby- a hard job! Thank you, Josh, was very informative!
I’ve always been taught to play from the keys and never from above. It produces a more rich and deep tone.
I practice Rachmaninov Prelude Op.32 No 10 in B minor at the moment and there is this passage with loud chords in the middle which need a crescendo over a bit more than a page and I‘m struggling very hard. It‘s so difficult to NOT just be loud from the beginning until the end of the passage. Maybe you could talk about this prelude any time in the future. I searched your videos but haven‘t found anything about it yet.
Great concepts about playing with a nice touch and good shaping! I totally agree 💯
From a dynamic standpoint, I always tell my students that shaping a piece is like reading a great story or watching a good movie. As amazing as John Wick 3 is with the action scenes, watching nonstop action gets boring after a while, no matter how impressive the action sequence. Same goes with music. We need the ebb and flow of dynamic contrast and range for music performances to be believable and enjoyable.
As far as getting a good tone I tell my students to push the keys from their hands on the keys rather than smack the keys from above. IMO, pushing from your hands on the keys has a smoother impact and more pleasing tone than smacking the keys from above.
I have heard several times now that the legs should be involved when playing big chords like those. But I have no idea how to involve them when playing the piano.
Are there any clear instructions available as to how to involve them?
another tip, when you're trying to put for weight into the keys for dynamic contrast, or you want to make it louder, set your hands on the keys in position and instead of striking from above.. try to press the keys like your trying to push it deeper than where it's suppose to reach
What piece was he playing at 9:21
Rachmaninoff concerto no 3?
Hi Josh! Could you do a tutorial on Danse Macabre?
"not many people are like Murray Perahia" 🤣
Who is he talking about at 1:02 maribraya? marie preya? Can't find anyone sounding like that name on the net? Would like to look him up, can anyone help?
I believe it’s Murray Perahia! One of the best live performances on RUclips is him playing Beethoven’s “Appassionata” Sonata in F Minor, op. 57! He is an absolutely incredible musician!
@@tylerneilson7771 Thank you!! I'll have a look at him!!
To tell you the truth I don’t have audible sophistication or intelligence to be able to tell what would sound bad or incorrect. Hell, I was just thinking how great it would be to land on each key and chord without making a mechanical mistake and being in time. It never occurred to me that unintentionally varying the dynamics can throw the performance off entirely.
I was told to play to the bottom of the keys
Bravo for your work, I really enjoy your videos. Wonderfull to stay passionate about what fulls our lifes. Funny to see that you dont succeed so much to show how not to play, or to play bad. I would add : mostly it comes from sensivity of the tip of the finger. this allows you to fell your ass threw the keys.
Look my channel if you want.
there is no such thing as tone. just thought I'd add my 2 cents.
Care to explain?
@@vipinbhat6971 Piano work with hammers hitting strings, you can only control the speed of the hammers which result to the sound volume and nothing else, tone is an illusion created by the use of pedals and mastery of the "pauses" between the notes like Rubinstein would say.
@@vipinbhat6971 well said. for those who are still confused or are on the fence, I'll go into more detail. if you adamantly believe in the existence of tone then I don't hold that against you. ok let's dig in. first let's define the term 'tone quality’. when used in the context of piano performance it means the timbre created by the technique used to play. timbre is the attributes of a sound-wave separate from it’s pitch, duration and volume. I’ll ignore duration for now. the pitch is determined by its frequency and the volume is determined by its amplitude. all notes played on classical instruments produce sound waves that contain a many different frequencies all sounding as one. the listener hears this collection of frequencies as the lowest frequency called the fundamental because the brain process the other frequencies as qualities of the note rather than as notes of their own (partially because they have much lower amplitudes but that’s not the only reason). the other frequencies are called overtones and they are always in the same pattern called the harmonic series. if you want to learn more wikipedia has a some great articles about it. the amplitudes of the overtones and the ratios between these amplitudes are what creates timbre. most classical instruments provide the musician with huge control over their timbre. for example on the violin: the angle of the bow, the pressure of the bow, the distance from the bridge, the part of the bow you use, and a lot of other factors affects the presence and volumes of the overtones. I don’t want to open another can of worms but violinist can also control the volume while the note is being played as well as use vibrato. which gives them two more very effective tools for musical expression. not many sane pianists claim they can do this on the piano though. on the piano the only non-trivial way to change the amplitudes of the overtones is how fast the key is depressed which is directly correlated to how loud the note is. there isn’t this direct correlation on most other instruments but on the piano the louder the note is the greater the amplitudes of the overtones. not only that but overtones will also be louder compared to the overall note. this is why when you hit a note very hard on a big piano the colour of the note changes from soft and blanket-like to booming and overwhelming or harsh, depending on if you like the music and if you're in the mood to be screamed at by a piano. there are a number of other factors with small and varying levels of efficacy including the use of the pedals, the rest of the notes being played, not fully depressing the note (called playing above the escapement), and dubiously, accelerating or decelerating as you depress the note (this is almost impossible to do and will have little to no effect). I wouldn’t have a problem with people believing they can control tone colour on the piano if it weren’t the cause of lots of toxic aspects of classical piano culture. many pianist use it to justify deluded arrogance about their own ability and to put down insult and abuse other, usually less experienced pianists. I have seen many times, first hand, insecure piano teachers tear apart someone's piano playing often with an audience, badly humiliating them and making them believe they are useless at piano. I have met lots of pianists who are so deluded that they regard any piano playing other than a handful of professionals, themselves, and their students to have an unpleasant tone and won’t forget to mention this whenever they hear someone play. I didn’t mean to end on a negative note but we’re here now. I hope this comment is useful to someone
One more thing to mention for if you experiment with trying to change your tone colour. In the effort to listen very closely to the sound you're producing, you might lean forward and tilt your head. This will change the tone colour for you as the sound waves will enter your ears from a different angle and refract slightly
This thread contains lots of different bits of disinformation. For instance, the correlation between total volume and strength of upper partials absolutely does exist in most if not all instruments and even sounding bodies. But the most important one is, people say only speed of the hammer can be controlled, and forget about its acceleration. There’s a simple test for this: go to a grand piano, depress the sustain pedal, and play the same thing once legato, once staccato. This will show you that tone does exist.
Finally, the point of this video was not about tone in the sense that you guys are using the word. The point of this video was the need for dynamic phrasing, the need for playing dynamics musically even when the score has them static. If Josh had simply used any word other than tone - such as “force” or “volume” - you would have agreed. You are allergic to the word “tone” because you swallowed a theory that oversimplifies the physics of piano playing, and that’s your problem.
You need to watch a video called “speed of key descent” by cedarvillemusic. It’s surprising that someone so educated on piano performance can be so wrong so many times. The way you play the key does not affect tone quality at all. The notes you refer to as harsher are simply just played too loud. I’m a fan of your videos, but you have to stop spreading false information.
Oh good, I am now waiting for your demonstration, on your Steinway grand, of how playing in different keys doesn’t affect the sound. That will be super enlightening.