Your Stats mean NOTHING
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- So many people get caught up nowadays in comparing stats like it actually means something. In reference to how good a person is at a game their stats hold very little to no weight.
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To me 1.10 to .95 is average. 1.20 to 1.75 is good. Higher than that is really good. I'm thinking about it in terms of the overall population of players.
True seeing as there is a kill for every death and there are also suicides then technically the average is going to be around 0.95
As a 1.2 I endorse your view wholeheartedly. :3
Agreed. 1.7 and up is a pretty decent player in my opinion
Good is 1.8-2.5 lol
I agree. I have a 1.33, 1.41, and 1.51. Honestly though I've been dropping like anywhere from a 1.7 to a 2.2 for the past month with playing 50 plus games a weekend. I've faced 1.7s that were complete trash and have faced 1.1s and 1.2s that were really good team players. I honestly measure by ELO. People complain that isn't a smart way to do it but the higher the Elo the better the players have played against high stats players. If I see a team of 2300 ELOs I get nervous but if I see a team of 2.5s with like 1600 Elo my team and I normally tear through them. It really comes down to map awareness and teamwork.
In year 1 I was trash, and then I pulled my game together. My k/d is below average because of it even though I could beat people with a way bigger one. I just hate when people talk trash about their k/d like they think they're good.
those are the people that deleted 10+ characters. I am one of those. I realize, it's just pointless. Just tell them straight up, wanna talk trash, settle it in the crucible fam. if you know you can probably do for some major improvements, that's a good first step to improving, realizing it.
Same
+Louie Vazquez And now with private matches if some dude trash talks we can settle it in a 1v1.
+Andrew De Tuncq
true af
Same.. Me and my friends used to farm coins in trials before, , we be like the suicide squad in asia lol, my k.d is freakin low but i know i can kick players ass of in trials :)
Destiny was the first first person shooter I've ever played and in Year 1 my bestfriend on the game carried me through Trials as I learnt how to play PVP. We played so much though, by the time I got good, my stats aren't recoverable. They are negative and I can go positive every game for a month in trials and it wont move. Sadly. Everytime I destroy someone in crucible and they get upset they refer to my Trials K.D. being poor as if that has anything to do with me beating them. Like a Normal Crucible match I won has anything to do with Trials? The Destiny community sucks and is filled with people that try to bring you down. I wish people didn't always take my friend teaching me how to play good as a flaw as me as a human being.
TokenTV try restarting your character and move all gear to that and don't play crucible till lvl 40 and boom you'll have the good KD
Reese Davis thanks, but I quit Destiny. There's nothing left to do
TokenTV same here dude.
I've seen a guy go 3-43 in a crucible match
😂 he was probably afk
how the fuck can you die 43 times lol if you're afk the game would kick you
He wasn't afk and he even posted it once in the bungie forums lol
I have seen someone go 1-32... he was a 0.6kd against a stacked fireteam...
1-32 doesnt equal 0.6 smart one
Having a high elo is like being vegan you feel the need to tell everybody
A huge pet peeve of mine is when someone uses the "oh, well I beat someone with better stats than me..." argument to say that stats carry no weight whatsoever. First of all, stats are almost all based off of averages, not absolutes. Averages are tied to consistency. A player that performs very well and very consistently is what basically everyone will define as skill. Higher K/D = higher average = more consistency. Oh, you beat this person before? That's nice. Play them ten more times and tell us how many games you pull off the victory in. What you're saying when you use the aforementioned argument is that the number one Destiny player can never lose, because he/she has better stats than everyone else. Of course that person can lose; it's just not going to happen often based off of a random sample of Destiny opponents.
Stats are exactly what they are your stats... I can easily sit back, play passive in Control, not play the objective and go 20+ kills with 4 or less deaths, and zero captures every game. Or I can try and win the game, and go say 25 kills, 15 deaths, with 6+ captures. Too many people are always to worried about their K/D ratio and don't care about actually winning the game. Plus that doesn't even take into account whether or not you're solo queuing and playing against stacked teams all day. Some of my friends literally refuse to play Crucible unless they're in a team of 3+. It's amazing whenever this happens we always seem to get a 2.5+ K/D every game. So you're correct in your baseline premise, but their are always contributing factors that don't actually take into effect everything that goes beyond a simple K/D.
Lmaooo "just talking about the average player base...1.3-1.7 are average players" ????? You do realize 98% of destiny players are BELOW 1.7KD? Meaning that only 2% of every player that played destiny online has above 1.7KD...being in the top 2% makes you average? You meant to say 0.8-1.2KD is average...
Georgie Del Piero lol, you clearly don’t know anything about the pro players of Destiny if you think 1.7 is better than average
The Meta195 No, what he said was true. The vast majority of destiny 1 players didn’t even have a positive kd. Going by statistics provided by sites like destiny tracker, around 90% of pvp players had a kd near 0.9, meaning that 1.7 was definitely an above average kd.
In reality, people with 0.85-1.10 are average players. People that are 1.40-1.70 are above average/ good players. People with 2.0+ are great players. A team of 3.0s vs a team of 2.0s can go either way. both are skilled and which ever team has the best teamwork wins.
My k/d in d1 was a 2.47, I've beaten lots of streamers on ps4, including wish, brose, kjhovey, truevanguard, realkrafty etc.
Here's my opinion. Stats are just a reflection of what you are capable of doing. Just like in sports sometimes the person you least expect to perform at that superstar level can surprise you and do just that. To be honest the best players are the people who can evaluate certain predicaments and turn it into a favorable situation for themselves. I would take someone who has excellent communication skills over a 20 or 30 kill player any day.
stats do carry weight by it doesn't mean a 1.7 can't beat a 3.0....but .5 or a 1.0 can't beat a 3.0
stats mean nothing if you were to compare me when I first went into the crucible, to a month ago, to how I played yesterday. you would see three players on notably different skill levels.
I believe overtime a kd becomes stagnant due to learning pvp, say it takes 1000 games to understand the game and youre getting the shit beat out of you, but overtime you progress and progress and progress but these matches only account for another 1000 games and the second average is 1.5. You're first average is low around a .50. You're then left with a 1.0 but are playing currently at a 1.5. Stats don't mean shit if there are results from dedication and experience.
I understand u bro, in trials my KD is around 1.1 to 1.5 but when I play something like control I'm usually 1.8 - 4 due to the pug playera
Wish, you don't know how great this video was. Thank you for jumping on that topic. 👊 Cause it is pretty annoying to hear people just dog on each other about who's stats are better. It's seriously an annoyance.
I had a person in trials who had a 3.16 k/d lose to me 5-0 in trials, and I was sniping and went 12-1 and they t-bagged after every kill. I messaged him after responding to his childish t-bagging in round one, and he sent me a collage of my stats compared to his, people really get a stiff dick off of their k/d, i'm convinced of that.
Statistically average kdr in destiny is 0.9, a good player is a 1.0-1.9, a very good player is 2.0-3.0, and a destroyer/farmer is a 4.0-...
yeah you explain it basically perfectly, specific kd for games modes anything in 1.3 to 2.0 the skill gap is going to be so small especially in destiny you're not going to get destroyed (for the most part with the occasional sweat).
I agree 100 percent. I've destroyed teams with 2000 plus ELOs and over 2 kds and lost to teams of .8s. Last weekend I faced a team of 1.5s and I was on my crap character with a 1.3. Ended up getting 15 kills and 4 deaths and carried the team to a win. It truly doesn't matter lol
Wish don't ever change dude lol. It's good to have that one blunt tell it like it is no bullshit streamer talking the obvious topics in regards to destiny. Enjoy your stream and your one hell of a player.
For me, a KD does indeed define how good of a player is, but people need to think about something. Most of my real life friends aren't really great at the game, almost all negative apart from one who's barely positive and a pretty decent one who has a 1.3 KD. When I play with my negative KD friends, it's so hard for me to perform. I don't go positive, I go negative, but when I play with people with similar stats (1.7 KD) from the LFG, I dominate. I play really well.
I swear to you a player can have a 0.9 KD because he is playing with people who are trash at the game.
Bro this shit was golden haha. I thought cod players were bad haha. Destiny players are on a whole different level when it comes to looking at people stats . The good thing about destiny was when it first came out nobody really looked at stats. Now people get psyched out by looking at people stats and not even trying in trials . When cod came out with not displaying the lobby leaderboards it was acting pretty good because people will back out if they see high kd's. Shit I remember not being able to play bo3 because people were looking at the lobby leaderboards so much thank God for skill based match making. Defintley earned a sub keep up the good work.
I think that stats do matter, however my weekly avg is about 2.5, but my overall average is 1.53. My stats don't really portray my skill because I was a .6 in year one.
Elo is a more accurate way to judge someone's skill rather than their kd in my experience. But even a low elo team can outsmart and outplay a better team map, weapons, and tactics play a big roll in the games outcome.
The annoying part is that when i first started destiny i was complete horse shit but these day im around a 1600 elo and i normally average a 1.4/1.5 kd but my overall kd is 1.07 so people don't really think im great
Very High K/D people on destiny are to afraid of playing solo. They barely play by themselves. Only a very few do but not for very long. D2 really needs rumble Lol.
Savless I only queue solo and I have a 2.8 kd and I’m in the top .1% for kills per game in d2
kylestroz51 watch out big man kyles out and about lol
In terms of actual stats, a 1.0 K/D is average while up 25% is about 1.3
100% of the time I play solo and have a 1.45 k/d. I guess that's good.
my team is 1.35, 1.16 and 1.12 and we go flwaless every week... every opponent is beatable, you just have to adjust to it and have good teamwork... we already beated Realkraftyy, petty20, Zwetschke___ and a few other over 2.0 Streamers, just sayin stats doesn't mean anything, if you have a good team and they know how to adjust, then it's pretty easy with low stats as well
Beat* lol.
If wish doesn't reply it means he's in danger
"your stats mean nothing..... but yeah if you have a .5 K.D. odds are your not better than the next guy" i have no idea what your talking about
1.3-1.7 KD is not average , .9 is an average KD
im going to make this clear. destiny WONT DO SHIT for you in the real world unless you do youtube. its not going to improve you grades or your fitness or any of that bullshit. so if anyone talks shit to you about destiny just know that you are above them because there taking this game to god damn seriously.
chat some serious sense here bruv. good shit, keep up the good work.
I know 3 friends that have improved massively just this last month, but because of their stats beforehand they can never raise them back up, and it seems a lot of people all have this same problem
So stats can tell you a story but in reality they can only give you a piece
Obviously Grimoire is the end all be all duh
a lot of people might be mad/sad at how you grade 1.3 to 1.7 as average but I totally get it.
From the people who are at the top (Wish included of course) 1.3 to 1.7 is indeed average (sweat players excluded).Anything above is good and 3+ is pub stomp category.
Generally in normal crucible I have seen 1.3kd players make some insane plays, but those are just that plays, it will be hard for them to replicate with efficiency/consistency against good competition where as a 2+ kd player will have higher efficiency against a similar team.
I went from around a 2.1 kd to 1.7 all because of sweats lol
that's about 3 months
if u start bad in y1 and are better now in y2 and have played a lot it is extremely hard to raise ur kd so yeah kd isn't everything but I will say 1.7 is better than average
i only have a 1.3 but i can say from myself that i am an above average player
and no stats mean nothing to me
Padding your K/D is so easy. I put no faith in it.
I know what you mean Wish, k/d does matter to some degree, but when I think about my overall k/d since I started playing Destiny.. all the drunk games I've had, all the nights I came home from work exhausted, all the games I just didn't try or was laughing with friends, it really becomes an unreliable statistic. To me what matters is the individual plays and engagements. Some days I have the craziest games and most satisfying smart plays, and others I just can't even land a headshot. So for inconsistent players, k/d is just arbitrary.
Very objective stance on this topic. Stats are just a measure of predictability, never count on them when ability is involved, only use them as a guide of probability. Thank you for sharing.
Greg [Striatum]
My KD on my best character is 1.54 (because I like to screw around in the crucible a lot) but I still average around 25-30 kills a game in control, and carry my team about 75% of the time, so personally I'd like to think stats don't matter too much, just as long as you can justify saying that they don't matter in certain cases.
This guy wish is lost don't listen to him
Exactly like me. I fuck around in the crucible a lot and then play "sweaty" other games. I'd like to think that they don't matter too much as you said but people think differently like the person that has restarted 19 characters for k/d...:
in year one, i was the kid who went 2 and 17, but now i can go in pubs and get 1.5 to 3.0 kd every game
I'm generally pretty good in pubs and my destinytrialsreport stats are nice but I still lose games against good TEAMS. Stats give you an idea of what to expect from individual players but there's no stat for team chemistry. I truly believe team chemistry to be the deciding factor in pubs/Trials/sweats. You can win every 1v1 but if you're getting angled by several enemies at once, you're done
yeah he makes a good point, i never take anyone for granted when doing carries, the guys im carrying will be like "oohhh these guys have shit kd's it should be easy" but i tell them no need to risk it plus if they are bad no need to talk shit about them. and no tea bags unless you get tea bagged lol
I have a 1.4kd but I started playing trials as soon as my gear allowed, I was basically garbage at PvP back then. Since then I average 1.6-1.9 a week but even then my overall stats stay lower because of how much trials I did before. I can't be the only one in this situation.
but..if you,like me 90 % of the time play solo. and then are at 1.3-1.7...compared to the fireteams who have higher stats? are you still average? lots of factors? Btw never been to the L House :)
I mostly play solo and have 2.1
Add me on PlayStation I'll help you :)
+JetEyeNight your*
Honestly everybody is different. I'm a overall 1.41 in crucible but in the top one percent of most playlists. I started out really bad then progressively got better. Now I beat people that have high kds. It just depends on the person. Honestly.
thomas olderdal i play solo 98% of time and walk around with a 2.16
Year one i messed around a lot. In year 2 i brought my kd up to 1.14 and i average about a 1.8 kd in the crucible now. I've been to the light house multiple times. My stats do not reflect my skill. It's really annoying that people judge eachother on stats.
I hover around 1 k/d, but I mostly only get on crucible to do TMOW or other bounties that require me to change my loadout and play style every game. I also suffer from varying levels of opponents or playing against full fireteams. When I matchmake with any of my friends(even ones with similar stats) I get 3-4 k/d. So I find it pretty difficult to find a reliable way to compare myself to other guardians.
it depends on the person, I'm 1.2 but I play with all weapons instead of just using universal remote, telesto, tlw, etc. I try to master all weapon types, Jade Rabbit is my favorite, but I may do a day with just snipers, assault rifles, handcannons, etc. You take a hit trying to lol up new weapons, I'm just a glutton for punishment at times though.
I hear you man I hope it straightens those guys out
I have a 1.04 kd, so many people never pick me up and think im garbage, but When it comes to trials, i am really good I know the game inside and out and most times end up carrying a team,
In my own experience and opinion you gotta have a 1.0 atleast like I get how people might never play 6's and only play sweats but still having a negative overall in sweats shows you can't really win your one's. Just my experience with this..
Wish dropping some elitist bombs, showing the community how average 1.5-1.7 players really are
Never in my life have I wanted to be good at a game this bad, and I fucking suck
*Oh boy does this conversation change when they implemented sbmm, I mean like now with sbmm 1.5 is really good*
My warlock and Titan have 1.6s and 1.7s but my hunter has a 2.0. BUT it's not all about that, look at people's weekly kds. Maybe that person started getting good later in the game. Kd doesn't mean shit. I've lost to .9s and have beat kjhovey and all of them who have 3.0s. Running around comparing stats is irrelevant. This is a great video thank you for shutting up all these people.
I didnt realize that top 12% to top 1% was considered average... lol
Stats is just a measuring guideline. If I started new characters my stats would be about 2 to 2.5. Bc I played since launch and never played pvp before d3stiny I was trash for a long time. But your mostly right. It's just hard to tell bc there is so many factors.
Was anything weird happening for anyone in Trials yesterday? 4 out of my 5 games, on the fourth round, one person on the enemy team got DC'd. I was really confused because it boggled my mind...
This was a great video! Love the ending when you just start talking about random stuff. This is type of youtube i like to watch!
sometimes its not account recoverys its friends like my friend got 2 of his streamer friends to carry one of our friends flawless and hes really good and was sometimes doing the best by far on the team and these streamers were over 2 kds and never went below a 1.5 in the games
Well, in a lot of cases, stats mean nothing. Now, I mean if someone always goes try hard every match, never messes around and still pull a 1.0, then you can see their stats do mean something. But some people like myself who played BETA for Destiny and have continued to this day, we get bored. So we do stupid stuff, actually my team and I have gone into 6v6's and did nothing but attempt suicide trick shots the whole game and go like 0-2 kills vs 20+ deaths every time we do it, but we don't care because it's fun. In trials, my kd is down to a 1.12 and my elo has dropped to 1,550. In year one, I had a 2.6 k/d with a 2,400 elo. Now idc about stats or elo anymore, I have 1000 deaths on my stats for wipes, because after I go flawless and get my carries done, I go in and wipe to give other players a win and so the people I carry constantly have passage coins.
stats dont matter, its how you or them play that game, ive been in teams of 1.5,1.8,2.4 and we've loss to negative kd kids
being honest. i get worried if a team member has a low Ka/D ratio... tells me. they either are a good sniper or carry but more than likely a "hero" and try to push and doesnt work as a team
your absolutely right about account recoveries lol. I like you idgaf attitude. Me and you would get along really well. I don't usually go by stats unless the person is over a 2.3kd. I'm a 1.52 in trials and I have beaten Hovey, TV, Skamp. hope to match up against you soon bro. your a god lol
there are many note factors to a players ability than k/d but everyone seems to think its the only thing that matters...let's take for example the skill of the competition being different for everyone...the strength or weakness of specific subclasses...how often do you face lag of absolute crap spawns...the skill of the players on your team...how many times you are double or triple teamed...even the into/disc/strength builds of your characters...there are so many more factors yet everyone tries to boil it down to ELO and k/d...the shit isn't that simple
Well on LFG stats are everything. If you dont have a positive KD or an ELO above 1500 then good luck finding yourself a solid team. Literally everyone on LFG says : 1.5 KD 1500 ELO looking for similar or better stats, will be checking. Its just so frustrating to find a good team to go flawless and thats why some people will take stats seriously. Not to say stats mean absolutely nothing. they give a brief outline of a player. So yeah just my opinion.
A lot of people are bad when they first hop into the cruciable, Then they get really good so I usually don't judge people of kd
Just wait till we can choose opponents then we can see if k/d truly matters
Finally somebody that says that . Yesterday I lost a trials match 5-1 , then i had to do a raid , but I was like let's do a quick match and I won 5-0
Pretty much kd means nothing when you bring everything into light, like cheesy strats (stickys, op weapons, op classes/ sub-classes) also if they dick around ( just play for fun, gets drunk/high) and also other people, (using there accounts,). Personally ELO is the only real way, but if a guys got a 13.0 kd with a 100 ELO and and a guys got a 0.9 kd and a 1900 ELO then either way somethings fishy... just play the damn game and either wup or get wuped.
It was definitely an account recovery
good shit man. I couldn't give a Fuck about my stats some days I'm good others I can't get a kill but your correct!
I've been wanting to deboost my kd so I can go back to lobby's like in year 1
Lmao. Tell me about it bro!!
+Wish You Luckk
Completely agree with you. Nice coverage.
I think what he means by saying it both does and doesn't matter is that you can't judge a book by its cover but you can tell what genre it is. K/D does give you an educated guess.
Wish, think bro! How can the average kd be 1.7 when this means you are killing more than you are dying! Everyone cannot kill more than they die. The average has to be a 1.0, so all these kids saying that is not average chat out their arses
So what about someone like me who never tries in regular games but when it comes to trials I actually do way better compared to my stats
exactly. I'm a 1.7 but I carry ppl to lighthouse. stats don't hold a ton of weight, especially in trials. I've been destroyed by .9's and I have destroyed 3kds lol. what matters is if you win sweats
I'd agree I'm average at PVP had 1.3 on my lock main Nova. Now with that being said higher kd's see an average player like myself and think they got me. lol When I've beat Dr Lupo and Xur Blows doing a single carry lighthouse game. Now I say I beat because both my teammates went negative and I went 2.0 against very good players went to 4-4 and I was last man standing and I wrecking ball the team. Ive even done a wrecking ball against Gernader Jake while trying to do a single carry myself. And I'm an average player at best.
Stats serve some purpose, but i know players that play for stats especially in trials. Dudes will run a stacked team and go 5-1 every game just playing passive. Ran into a 4.4kd twice, split 1-1, dude went invis, never made a push, waited for super, stats are misleading towards gunskill.
I started out with a .5 kd for like the first year of playing destiny. These past few months I got better at pvp and I pretty much get 3.0 - 5.0+ every 8/10 pub games I play. But because I was extremely trash at first, my overall kd is a 1.2.
I don't sit back in spawn with a sniper I run pulse/ shotty or hand cannon/shotty. I now get a phantom medal at least once a week and Unbroken when feeling shifty. Screenshots and recorded gameplay to prove it. I would say I'm an above average player despite my overall stats.
A better analysis of someone's skill in terms of their kid would be their kd within the last week or month.
I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying there's numerous cases where players make MASSSIVE improvements and are better than what their overall stats on paper show.
+ET LOL right? dude explained his life story
Stats don't mean shit honesttlllyyz because I have a 0.70 KD for trials and I beat Triple Wreck Plus I got 8 kills and 3 deaths .
I think you also have to take into consideration is the type of class and character you play. Example you might have might have clutched it as a hunter rather than as a Titan you might not because of mobility. Not saying that it isn't possible but you have a high chance as a hunter than you do as a Titan.
Destiny was the first ever fps I have played so couldn't even aim and walk at the same time at the start. I was so bad during year one and the majority of year 2 it's almost funny. I would get 0.33 to 0.8 kd average. I have recently started getting a whole lot better over these 3-4 months averaging 1.7 - 3 kd per game but my stats are still crap because of my previous time playing (0.93 and still trying to recover). I have had people laughing at my stats but when I play with them and they realize I'm not that bad, they legitimately apologize.
Stats do hold weight... But when it comes to ELO, it pisses me off. My ELO is about average, at 1300 now in Elimination, but my friend EmmittEclispe is around 1900 - 2100 somewhere in between there. That's I believe is the top 30 in elimination and the only reason why he's there is because of how often he gets carried. I'm an average player, yet he claims to be a god. Oh I've matched him before too and I've beaten him ease.
The overall point I think he's trying to make is that in destiny KD doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things because destiny doesn't take a lot of gun skill to do average in. KD only shows how well a person usually plays, but it doesn't mean that team can't get rolled over in a trials game. Personally, if you're under a 2.0 I'd consider that player average in terms of smarts. You might be awesome shot gunner or sniper but you might not play as smart as someone with a KD higher than 2.0. I think it all differentiates with game smarts and decision making the higher the KD gets instead of just aim and shoot skills
Stats literally don't matter. I would not "bully" someone if they have a kd lower than mine. If you try to talk shit though, that's another story. Just the way I see it. If you're a 2.0 player and you have only 5k skirmish kills and 50k control kills and you try to talk shit about your kd you're getting exposed lol. Usually the kids with high kds that talk shit don't sweat that's the issue. I'm fine with that though, but if you try to talk shit.. Lol...
THANK YOUUUUU FOR MAKING THISSS
I like your viewpoint bruh. Got my sub.
1.7 and 2.0 are very great players. Like really wish?? 0.95 to 1.0 is average.
I wish there was a way to reset your stats. In year one I was really freaking bad, and I was able to pull it back up to positive in year 2 after watching wish and Nghtly. I'm like stuck at a 1.2 but will go positive every game with an average of 1.3-2.0
I beat a guy in a 1v1 I have a .8 and he had a 1.6 kd and I won by 3 kills stats don't matter skill matters
I knew before I looked at the comments the comment section would be a cancer of people listing their k/d and how good they are
Stats do mean nothing, the mood of the player depicts the skill level as well as temperature (colder means slower hand movement, hot means greater exhaustion), these things are what I follow by.. If I were to have a bad day then I wouldn't feel like grinding, that is where my skill level decreases but when I wake up feeling awesome then I'm ready to be serious. STATS DON'T MEAN A THING! Read below for more proof:
I am not the best...but my friends think that I am, and that is because I am the best at certain maps. Not for 'headglitches' or 'cheats' but for the nostalgic feeling of year one. Everyone has a favourite map and others do better on said 'map', I love Widows Court and I do amazing on it but if it were a map like Memento then there is where I go downhill. "ELO" is cancer if you determine skill that way.
Finally Custom games will settle this all
Can a .5 sweat...hell fxuking yes LOL
Your stats dont mean shit if you cant back it up. I have played so many shit talkers in trials you brag about their stats but they lose 5-0. I have overall kd because i used to be ass in y1 but now i steamroll ppl who brag about their stats.
anyone else just come to watch Wish get stomped