Hey. I was at work today and we had cause to open the fire door to let someone in. I noticed that it was bolted and when we came to close it again, my colleague went to bolt the door and the top and bottom. We are on the 4th floor. I said 'Is this the fire door?' and the guy said 'yeah' and I said 'So why are you bolting it?' he was like 'because we're supposed to'. I haven't been there long but I made sure that the bolts were NOT put back on. I don't think I would have been so passionate and so firm if I hadn't watched this channel and understood how something simple like a bolted fire door can kill lots of people. You are doing great work. I'm still furious about it.
My sister and I were preteen when we each stood in our driveway near the front sidewalk on Utica st in Buffalo in 1951 . A small older lady was walking past us and she was so disfigured that we both unthinkingly stared intently at her without saying a word . Knowing we were to young to realize or understand her situation , or what had happened she stopped for a few moments , smiled slightly and said ,"I was badly burned on the Noronic cruise ship in Toronto" . We never said anything to her but went back in our house to tell 'mom' about seeing a lady who was on the Noronic . I can still picture this lady to this day .
There was a kid around my age that was badly burned in the small town my great grandma lived in, was her neighbor. He was lucky to be alive as he burned most of his body with fuel in their garage. I’d see him out and about and knew what he’d been through so his appearance didn’t strike me as it did for those who didn’t know, he’s now married with kids but he was severely burned over most of his body and lost his ears, some fingers, etc. When my dad was in the burn unit for his arm from a welding torch as a kid, my mom never took us to visit him after the first time. We were all so traumatized by the screams of agony from other patients. My dads wasn’t even that bad compared to others and he was in so much pain. My dad worked in a steel mill most his life and my husband has for 22 years now and has lots of small burns and can’t grow a beard past here his face shield protects.
I was a student nurse at St Michael's Hospital in the late 60s when it was still run by the Sisters of St Joseph. One evening I was working with an older nurse who was talking about her years as a student at the same hospital. She told me she had needed an emergency appendectomy during her second year of nursing school so had been admitted to the hospital for surgery. A couple of days later she was asleep in her hospital bed when she was shaken awake by one of the sisters who handed her her dressing gown and told her to get down to the emergency department. The Noronic disaster had occurred and the hospital needed as many nurses as possible to deal with the incoming flood of patients. She spent the next hours working in her housecoat and slippers and had, obviously, never forgotten the catastrophe.
I remember reading a book about this disaster many years ago. It astonished me that this fire could be so deadly while the ship was sitting at the dock in Toronto. This disaster so overwhelmed emergency services that the horticulture building on the near by Canadian National Exhibition grounds had to be used as a temporary morgue. It’s sad that this was the beginning of the end of an era. Although there are a handful of ships beginning to cruise the Great Lakes again, they are stopping at Port Colborne on Lake Erie-on the western side of the Welland Canal from Toronto where this ship burned. Thank you for retelling this story, the victims of the Noronic need to be remembered
It had wooden panels and furniture which had been polished with flammable lemon oil for half a century. It might as well been polished with kerosene or turpentine.
For a school project I made a newspaper on this but because I was young I thought the cops would get me for plagiarism so I used information from this disaster and applied it to the Noronic’s sister ship the Harmonic and said the Noronic sunk 20 years before the Harmonic which is untrue as the Harmonic sank two years earlier in 1945 also due to fire while docked in Sarnia, Ontario. Oddly similar sinking.
It's similar to the Eastland. It was tied up at a berth on the Chicago river in the middle of downtown. It had always been top heavy, and one day while passengers were on board for a day trip, it capsized. Many people were drowned or otherwise killed because they couldn't make it out of the ship. In the middle of downtown Chicago!
Meanwhile, the Noronic's sister ship, the Hamonic, also met a tragic end by fire. It was destroyed at the dock in Sarnia, Ontario (the city where I reside) in July, 1945. Amazingly, unlike the Noronic, everyone on the Hamonic survived. This Ontarian thanks you for featuring a local disaster, and doing an amazing job with it.
The gentleman that noticed the smoke was also a person who worked as a fire specialist for a insurance company. The bellboy who had opened the linen closet did hammer on doors yelling for people to get off the ship before running for the captain
Maybe he was supposed to be some kind of a specialist, but shouldn't a specialist know that you don't open a door when there's smoke coming out from under it? I'm pretty sure experts must have known in 1949 that you don't open a door when there is a fire behind it.
@@ItsJustLisa The video said he tried to open it himself and was standing there when the bellboy opened it so apparently he was not aware what a bad idea it was.
@@kellyp136 They had grabbed the fire hose and had prepared to fight the backdraft but the fire hose failed and the small extinguisher was too small to fight it
My great aunt (my grandmother's sister) and her husband died in the fire. Apparently they made it off safe, but she went back on for her purse, and they never made it back off. The Cleveland Plain Dealer listed her as a survivor initially. She never really talked about it, but I can imagine that was terrible for my grandmother, thinking she made it off, then finding out she didn't. I have a picture of my great aunt, aged about 10, hanging in the hallway outside our bedroom. Great video.
My dad was a new firefighter when this fire happened. I remember him telling me about this one. We were at the CNE and we were walking through the floral building. He said this was where they brought the victims and he couldn’t shake the smell of death and flowers. One of the pictures you showed I have as well. I can spot my dad in it.
My father was a police officer working that night in the area. He was the first official on the scene and quickly discovered he couldn’t get anywhere near the ship to help anyone. He said the heat was insane!
One small correction, iirc the whistle *didn't* fall silent, instead it jammed in the open position, letting off a soul rending endless wail, that I'm sure along with the fire and screaming of victims, haunted many for the rest of their lives.
@@quillmaurer6563 Reminds me of how the locomotive engineer racing the flood down the Little Conemaugh to Johnstown tied his whistle down. People may not have realized the continually howling train was specifically warning of a flood, but anyone who heard it knew _something_ had gone terribly wrong.
@@ZGryphon Exactly - don't know what it means, but means something ain't right! Could just mean the whistle got jammed, but it's a hint that people should be alert of something amiss.
A ship that became a floating crematorium many of the victims were from Detroit and Cleveland. Also I read that several of the people signed up for the cruise under false names because they were carrying on extramarital affairs. So when it came time to identify the dead it got kind of tricky.
Lol, where tf did you read that? The Onion? I'm sure at least one person onboard was having an affair, but it takes some serious reaching to say "several". Where tf would this "source" even get that info?
@@SkunkApe407 Excursion steamers of that era were a fairly common discrete rendezvous point for lovers. Unlike a hotel they did not require registration, just a ticket for passage. The world before social media was indeed a very different one.
Yeah, now that you mention it, I live in the Niagara region and the shipyard in St. Catharines (on the Welland canal) is active again after (what seems like) several decades of lying dormant/empty. It's nice to see it in action again and people working there.
I've noticed that as well. The Pandemic has made many people realize how much there is to explore right in their own backyards. Many people are choosing to cruise the Great Lakes now, instead of flying halfway around the world to cruise on a giant, 4000-passenger ship.
I just saw an ad yesterday about a full on cruise ship that’s now sailing from the great lakes out into the Atlantic and down to Florida, and all i could think was “yum, a floating cesspool of germs and viruses!” I get people are missing travel, but to me cruise ships are the least desireable place to be after a 2 year long pandemic!
One detail I remember reading about the Noronic disaster that horrified me is that the fire burned so hot for so long that most of the glass on every deck was melted and that the recovery crews found bodies that were burned all the way down to their skeletons, or in some cases the skeletons were half burned to ash. Pretty freaky to think something so horrific could happen within a few yards of land.
The fact that the linen cupboard was locked and required a key to open it, suggests it was not arson. But cleaning fluids are a notorious source of spontaneous combustion and that is why they are (now) stored separately in limited quantities and in a fireproof locker.
@@ostrich67 Any flammable liquids which can evaporate out and are stored in a closed locker with cloths or bedding etc is a fire waiting to happen. The liquid condensates onto the cloth and when it reaches a certain concentration it ignites. Oily rags allowed to accumulate in a bin or deep drum is another classic.
I feel bad for the bellhop, how a lot of people are blaming him. How could he have known the fire extinguisher wouldn't work. If it had, we'd be watching some other horrendous tragedy right now. And beyond that, Mr Bigshot told him to open it. Bellhops job is to basically do as they're told. The guy carries bags, he hasn't become a RUclips fire expert like the rest of us. He obviously was trying to be helpful, and then he even tried to subdue the flames. When he couldn't he ran for the captain. Who knows? It may have turned out even worse had the fire been allowed to sneak through the various channels and envelope the entire ship all at once. Sooner or later, someone had to open something.
In an alternate universe: "Investigators criticized the crew for not attempting to tackle the blaze with a nearby fire extinguisher while it was still small enough to be contained. By allowing the fire to fester in the closet, the ship's crew allowed it to spread unhindered throughout the ship via the wooden bulkheads."
@@MatthewBoonstra Poor guy was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. He was gonna end up living with the guilt of feeling responsible for many deaths no matter what he did. I'm also gonna assume he was at no point informed of the fact that the he was surrounded by wood that had been soaked in glorified gasoline for the last 50 years. Within EIGHT minutes, HALF the deck space was on fire. Holy shit- when you look at the size of that ship- 8 minutes. No standard worker like a bellhop could have ever imagined in million years a fire could spread that fast. It's like if instead of a person, Jessie Owens had been born a fire. It had to have damn near beat him to the captain's room. I literally cannot imagine a fire spreading across a luxury ocean liner in 8 minutes, how that must have looked. There is no way he could have or should have expected that to happen. That fire and all the lives that were lost that night were the responsibility of the person who started it.
Crewmen get tunnel vision when faced with an emergency. When in the navy there was a fire in the laundry which I smelled and called in the smoke to the bridge so they could sound the fire alarm then I ran back to "fight" the fire. I should have taken a moment to yell to the other sailors still asleep but . . . well, I wanted that fire out. That's tunnel vision and it was almost literally a tunnel. If any of you have been in an emergency you probably know what I mean.
The ship's captain despite allegedly lacking in leadership still performed his duty to the best of his abilities. Most ships lost in recent years all have captains who are always the first one to leave and doesnt even bother to issue a ship abandonment order, I'll looking at you Italian cruise captains. Meanwhile this fine gentleman helped the passenger the best way he could and was even one of the last to leave a burning ship.
Like the captain of the Italian liner who sailed too close to the coast and sank. He was found by the commander of the coast guard and told to return to the ship to facilitate rescue, and refused after being ordered to return.
Well, we never had a navy, so why have any kind of big boats, amirite? Sorry, just had to poke an angry historical jab at the gremlin who TURNED DOWN the idea of the RCN getting Queen Elizabeth-class BATTLESHIPS after WW1.
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 ~ during WWII the Great Lakes hosted a pair of paddle wheel-powered training aircraft carriers. No Jerry's or Japs dared attack Lake Michigan...
i live in an older building. sometimes i stay up all night until i know people are getting up to go to work. it makes me feel better that at least one person is awake and alert in case anything happens
My father was with St. John Ambulance at the time as a volunteer. He was haunted by his memory of the aftermath... My Dad & others were tasked with retrieving the charred bodies from the ship...
I grew up hearing about the fire on SS Norinic. My mother remembers the news stories vividly. I eould not say that passenger service on the Great Lakes ended soon after this tragedy. SS Keewatin was in service for another 16 years, finally being taken out of service in1965. She is being restored as a museum ship to highlight the opulence of the Great Lake steamers. She was used in one episode of Murdoch Mysteries.
You pack so much interesting information into your short documentary videos it's amazing. I look forward to ALL of your videos. I have learned so much, I really appreciate your hard work that you put into each one. Thank you so much.
Despite the tragedy, knowing the quick responses from that factory guy who got the help of a painter barge, the taxis, the hotels and red cross, all coming together to help either by choice or instructed does show the deep care we humans still have for one another, even under grim times.
I was a floor fire warden in a 17 storey office block in Birmingham, UK before I retired. One morning we had a fire drill, involving several hundred people making their way down a long line of twisting stairs. All went well until the first people reached the street exit door and discovered it was locked and bolted - and no key........ Fortunately everybody heard the warning yells of "Everybody HALT!" and reacted immediately. Some genius had ordered the fire escape exit sealed to stop vagrants sneaking into the building........... and there, but for the grace of God........
Putting fires out on ships is a nightmare and a half, no matter where they are. They were surely aided by being docked, but still faced too many challenges to save the ship. Too many other mistakes regarding fire proofing had already been made.
As a side note, if you want to learn more about ship fires, and what it takes to put them out, I would highly recommend looking into the Maersk Honam salvage operation. As a salvage operation it was quite incredible and it was remarkable how much of the ship was saved.
At that time my grandmother was a nurse at Toronto General. She recalls how it was one of her worst nights. She was still upset about it 60 years later. 😔
My father worked at Toronto General Hospital Mortuary at the time of the Noronic fire. He told us it was one of the worst nights of his life (and he was in WWII). They received calls in the middle of the night and worked through the next two days and many extra hours beyond that. It was a very sad and exhausting time with no extra pay that would ultimately have him quit and find a new career.
Yeah I'm wondering if anyone actually drowned, I'm from Toronto and that water is freezing in the middle of the summer - it's the third deepest lake at 802 feet. Not a lot of people swim in it.
@@Ragetiger1 Yeah that was my thoughts as well. It would've been a more panicked situation certainly, but perhaps with more crew the rescue would've been more well-orchestrated. Then again, perhaps the reason only ~200 died was because so many passengers were off-ship at the time. Hard to say one way or the other.
@@hellomark1, Superior is the deepest at 1,332 feet. Also cold in the summer unless you are right close to shore. Even then it’s pretty chilly, but I have been swimming in it in August. We were in Duluth.
Have watched videos on the Noronic before and this was one of the most clearly explained. Also love that I am in New Zealand and got to watch it so soon after it was published 🇳🇿💕
@@brisbanite5460 she's pointing out that some other countries would not be able to watch right away because they're sleeping.. so it's good timing. Kinda easy to understand tbh, but then again someone from Brisbane would find even the alphabetical difficult lmao
I feel for the Captain, and certainly understand his retiring from service after this horror. But, it never ceases to amaze me, that it takes such a tragedy before common-sense safety measures are taken. It's not as though cruise liners were a 'new' thing in 1949.
Unfortunately, most "common-sense" safety procedures have been put in place due to reactive, not proactive, measures. Seems we humans have been unable to realize things like, say, doors that open inwards will actually trap a panicking crowd inside.
Critics always look for a scapegoat. It’s a shame that the Captain, who helped so many evacuate the doomed vessel and was the last to leave, was blamed for failures beyond his control.
True, but he's the guy in charge, and if you're a captain of a ship and something happens to it, it's expected you take some responsibility, even if it was beyond your control. In this case I'm thinking they probably felt he could've rallied his crew more to save more people instead of him acting alone, and probably should not have let so many of his crew be off duty. He probably also has some responsibility in the upkeep of the failed fire equipment and emergendy whistle.
Crew didn’t have training, was the fault of the ship’s owner who didn’t make sure his employees knew how to handle a fire, but they probably passed the blame to the captain
At least, as far as maritime law is concerned the Captain enjoys the power of a feudal lord on his ship. With that power, including the ability to perform a legally binding marriage, he is also ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE. It doesn't seem fair. AND the owners of boats, even plank owners, aren't necessarily presumed to know a damn thing about ships, the ocean, lakes or any of the such... They're only the business side of shipping. The Captain is expected to be on top of everything from the shipboard petty cash to budgeting for training and upkeep. He's THE law onboard... ...AND if the Captain can't get along with the owners to his satisfaction as far as training the crew and demands per shift / watch are concerned, he should have the ballz to step up and leave the ship with his formal complaints on the matter brought to adequate authorities. Sorry, but a term in the Navy will bring up this kind of thing. If my CO was responsible when I did something stupid, then this Captain was responsible for his crew ultimately being stupid... poorly trained... or less than stellar in their dedications. ;o)
@@jessica_R_9167 So I can blame the President for loosing my grandmother to Covid then and blame the owner of the tire company that left me stranded with a flat tire. Should workers own the company too so everyone gets blamed?
Informative, handsomely-assembled, and above all compassionate, as always. I never hesitate to click when you release a new video. The work must be incredibly time-consuming. Thanks so much for keeping these stories alive. I'm sure the since-passed survivors and the victims would feel the same.
@@blxvkpxndx I sometimes get down as far as Chrahnna. There have been research papers papers written on the various pronunciations and how it changes as you move away from downtown
1. Never open a door (knowing there was smoke exiting the bottom) to allow oxygen in. 2. The fire hose malfunctioning? 3. The alarm failing? 4. Crew members not being trained for a fire scenario. 5. It all sounds very moronic to me.
This, the Yarmouth Castle (also the Gordon Lightfoot ballad about it), the Morrow Castle, and many, many, many others show filling a floating thing with flammable things is never a good idea, all the way up to the modern day too. Um...any time a ship is the largest/most prestigious it doesn't usually end well. Gordon Lightfoot also has a ballad about the 1963 Timonstown mine fire too, and, of course, the Edmund Fitzgerald, too. I've yet to find any songs/ballads about the Noronic though.
Thanks for the listening recommendations! Stories like these are why you won't catch me on a cruise ship even with all the modern safety equipment. lol
@@henryturnerjr3857 I personally wouldn't go because my grandparents would catch the flu about 2/3 of the times they took a cruise. Now COVID'S out and about and I have a sucky ass immune system. I'm not gonna play with fire here.
As always, a well-done video that gives the facts, that isn't sensational, and looks ahead to discuss what was being done to keep it from happening again. The gorgeous aerial shot of my hometowns of Detroit and Windsor was also a nice touch. I wasn't even aware of this disaster until I saw this video. Also, not to be flippant about such a horrible event, but back in those days Toronto was dullsville. It wasn't the beautiful, lively metropolis you know today, so I couldn't help but to smile when you said most of the tourists were back on the ship quickly. Back then, Montreal was where the action was. The Great Lakes cruise industry did go down the tubes, not just because of this disaster, but because more people were driving and flying for vacations. The industry in recent years, however, has made a massive comeback.
Having been born and raised in Michigan it makes me happy to see the industry picking up again. Growing up, it was hard to believed people used to consider cruises in the Great Lakes a luxury. Lake Michigan is beautiful but a hidden gem to most.
Excellent coverage of this story; you covered a few things that I hadn't heard before, especially about the arson on the second ship. For another look at this tragedy, including survivor interviews, I recommend Bad Day HQ's "Disasters of the Century: SS Noronic" episode. Just a further historical comment. In the May 1942 Battle of the Coral Sea, the carrier USS Lexington was torpedoed by a Japanese torpedo bomber. The damage had been contained when suddenly a huge explosion shook the ship and hours later the "Lady Lex" had to be abandoned. The onboard fire also spread rapidly because of wooden furniture and years of using oil-based lead paint. The furniture was discarded and the walls stripped on all of the other carriers in use at the time.
Despite the horror & tragedy of these stories, it always warms my heart when I hear of passersby coming to help. The fact that the vast majority of us have that impulse within us to aid another human in trouble, that overrides any discrepancies we may have with one another on any other given day, gives me such a sense of joy & camaraderie for humanity.
thank you for covering so many important Canadian events so well! I have family around who still remember the events you talk about, and I thank you endlessly for being so respectful to those who passed.
It is sad that someone with "an axe to grind" with the company would do such a horrific thing. This is almost the exact same thing that a man named Rogers did to the SS Morro Castle, starting a fire in a closet used to store blankets and linen for passengers. As in this case, Rogers got away with his crime as no one actually could prove he did it although there was plenty of circumstantial evidence against him. The SS Morro Castle disaster was made even worse by the Keystone Kops actions of the untrained crew.
My mother, who was eleven years old at the time, recalls living next door to a Toronto Firefighter who was prominently featured in Life Magazines coverage of the disaster. The aftermath of the Noronic fire was not only the demise of passenger cruises but also ferry’s that regularly traversed Lake Ontario from places like Cobourg, Ontario to Rochester, New York.
The passenger cruise industry is actually returning to the Great Lakes with a 71 day cruise leaving from Duluth next year. I just started getting a ton of news articles about it, so great timing with this video!
@@leftpastsaturn67 Good on him ! I was a teenager in the mid--late 70's, and I've always enjoyed his music. Since I saw him mentioned in the comments this morning, I've had "Carefree Highway" playing over and over in my head.
Wow, that timeline of events... the fire was discovered at 2:30am and only 8 minutes later, half of the decks were on fire already. Those poor people had very little chance of escape. Was it the captain's job to make sure the crew was trained and not their employer?
I imagine that it would be both the captain and the larger employer's job to do so, but it's not like this would be the first time a larger employer would throw someone under the bus even if that's not the case. The captain would in theory know his crew on a more individual basis though, so there's that too.
The larger corporation should have had defined standards for training of all crew. In 1949, I’m going to guess that those standards really didn’t exist. This fire and others like it are probably the reason that all cruises now make every passenger participate in the muster drill before they ever leave the dock and all crew know how to lead fire evacuations.
You are one of my favorite creators on YT, no ads, asks for likes, subscribers or to hit the notification bell, bravo, keep up the great content!! And thank you!
Ever since I found your channel I’ve been binge watching your videos. Last night I scrolled down only to realize I’ve watched them all… it was a sad feeling! But now it’s like a TV show, I’m all caught up so I just have to wait for the next upload 😁
Yet another tragedy of fire on board a ship where the cause was not determined and no one was brought to book. What was even more shocking is that the ship was docked, and all lives could and should have been saved
It's so interesting to watch these and hear "after this, such and such regulation was put in place" and then hear in another video that this regulation wasn’t followed in a later incident. Fantastic work, these deep dives into these tragedies. RIP to the lives lost.
As someone who grew up near the shore of one of the Great Lakes, I always wondered why people didn't take cruises of them. It's so sad that this is one of the reasons why.
Today, we see boredom as an extreme disfunction that needs to be avoided at all costs. We absolutely can't sit still and enjoy something. This boat was built for casual living. Back when life was much, much slower. Life was appreciated back then. Now, it's disposable with no value.
How ironic, a luxurious boat which could entertain you with anything you like, but didn't even have a functioning firehose... Maybe it was for the best that this era of carefree cruising ended...
Great story. I never heard of it! I enjoy your stories so much. Ship fires are so scary. My dad was on the Forrestal in 1967 when it caught fire and my husband was on the America in the late 80’s when they had a fire below deck. We just lost a cruise ship Spirit of Norfolk in Norfolk Va. it was on a lunch cruise with 100+ on board when they had a engine fire. Thankfully for another coat and quick response from tug boats nobody died or were hurt. The boat burned for 2 days and it’s a total loss.
I might be totally losing my mind, but did anybody else hear a cell phone go off during the narration? As always, fantastic work! I’m always so fascinated by the different disasters that took place but nobody talks about.
It saddens me that this was the captains final ship. I think he probably lived the remainder of his years, surely depressed. I hope that doesn't make me sound like I don't care about those which parished, I am sorry for your loss. I also hope the man found some peace and forgiveness .
Love your videos, they are always so well researched and explained. If you need another tragedy to cover you should look up the our Lady of angels school fire in Chicago. It's very sad but pretty interesting and no one else on RUclips have really talked about it. Anyways good video as always!
Locally, we had a string of arsons and there were a couple of us that figured out who it was due to their relation to the properties and them even posting pictures of them being on scene before anybody else more than once. It would've had to be an employee or a decent locksmith to set this fire, just like it was a trusted defender of fire that took out multiple structures in my area. There was a $15,000 reward that we didn't even try to claim once we told the authorities, just trying to save lives. He was related to somebody in power because those of us that pointed it out got fines for property upkeep with our grass cut, hedges trimmed and off street parking. If you look at the roster of both vessels, you will find the answer. I'd imagine he was connected to the owner if not an employee. There are more of those types around than should be, but the scarier part are those that defend them.
What Noro or Noron means ? My best guess is it was an acronym of - Northern Navigation Company, and the Richelieu and Ontario Navigation Company- 2 companies that became CSL No R O N ic- means" related to" or "common to" which was also a common naming convention of the White Star Line, as you note.
Good storytelling. May the victims journey well, & Capt Taylor too. I love hearing Great Lakes stories. Would love to hear some more about wrecks in Hudson’s Bay too.
Gosh, I am a history buff AND I am from this area and I had no idea that this ever happened. I was so surprised when you said that it took place in Toronto!
May the many souls lost on that day rest peacefully. 🙏🏾 Subscribers not familiar with Toronto will be interested to know that the Harbourfront area (where this heartbreaking disaster took place), along with Toronto General Hospital and St. Michael's Hospital are still actively in use. The Harbourfront is a beloved part of the city. And the hospitals are still a vital part of our Healthcare network. A intriguing and informative video!! 👌🏾
Now that I think about it, there are no cruises across the great lakes that I can know of. I've taken leisurely rides around Cleveland but that's it. I haven't thought about why that would be until now. Informative as always!
The fact that the linen closet was closed and locked and that the nearest firehose did not work says that the fire was deliberate, and that whoever did it had access to keys, knew the weaknesses of the ship, and fully intended to destroy it. That means it was either part of an insurance scam by the company itself or an attempt to put the company out of business by a competitor, possibly by a competing ocean liner company seeking to supplant lake cruising. That it was done while most people were assumed to be off exploring the city says it wasn't done to hurt people intentionally, although they clearly didn't care if accidental deaths happened.
@@mindyschocolate It's not that they went out of their way to avoid hurting people, just that they clearly didn't intentionally want to hurt people. Their goal was the destruction of the ship, not taking people's lives. They did it at a time when they probably figured there would be fewest people on board.
@@yatokami7907 The fire would have been small inside a closed closet. Once the doors were opened and air came in the fire quickly grew. That is physics.
Hey fascinating horror. I live just 50 km east of Toronto. Have never heard this story before!! Very interesting. Thanks for the history lesson. Love your channel. Cheers Ontario 🇨🇦
Thanks for yet another great video. I'm not sure why, but I find accounts of large passenger and cruise ships wrecking out very interesting. It's probably just me being a history buff, even though I really don't care for any other Maritime stuff.
I red the title as "SS Naronic". Only later I realised, the video is not about 1893 mysterious tragedy of the steamer called Naronic. I believe, you should make a video about that one too, it's one of the most interesting, mysterious ship disasters ever...
Sounds like a deliberate fire. Fire inside a locked linen closet, firehose near it doesn't work, alarms don't work. When too many coincidences line up they are no longer coincidences
Nothing is scarier to me than when people do the right thing in an emergency and it just isn't enough. Grabbing a fire extinguisher, naïve but okay, running to the tell the captain, good. But just not enough.
This wasn't some rinky-dink hand held fire extinguisher either, but a full scale marine fire hose. If it had worked, odds are that the fire could have actually put out. Especially tragic.
I still remember the psa's when I was a kid. It's true- if you have reason to suspect a fire on the other side of s door- do NOT open it. Stuff a towel under it, or wherever smoke is coming in from and get the hell out. It also said if the doorknob is hot, you don't want no part of it. I guess there really is no good reason for a hot doorknob, so you supposed to get th hell out and call somebody.
I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't have been common knowledge, even in 1949. And both men tried to open the door! And supposedly one of them was some kind of fire expert for an insurance company. A couple of people got cocky, thinking they could put the fire out themselves. If they had gone and got in the fire department right away, that fire would not have spread that fast. They were there within 11 minutes of the fire being discovered. There was a lot wrong that happened in this whole scenario but the disaster would have been averted if they had just left that door shut.
There seems to be some kind of rogue instinct to do with opening a door onto a fire, it happened to me once in a workshop, smoke was coming from under the door of a store room and when I brought it to the attention of the others there they rushed as a man to the door to open it even with me shouting and fighting then to leave it shut, very strange, all ended well as the fire happened near a water hose. The fire was caused by a faulty electrical appliance
Another fantastic video! Thanks for your thorough research and concise explanations! I’m always happy when I see your videos come up. My only request, more videos about Alaska!
This disaster reminded me of the Morro Castle. The ship was still in motion as it burned and ran aground in the New Jersey shore. The Captain and the Radio operator were considered suspects. The Captain because he had ignored the concerns of the crew and passengers(I think he died onboard the ship) and the Radio operator, who was hailed as a hero for not leaving his post and continually sending radio messages for help. It was believed that the Radio operator was responsible for the starting the fire onboard and causing the deaths of many people. In the case of the SS Noronic, I think it may have been an inside job. But that may be a coincidence since the small crew was inexperienced in dealing with a fire onboard ship. It is sad about the loss of lives during that time.
The Captain died of other causes on the way back from Cuba. The commander (XO) took charge of the ship at that point, and was found to be negligent after the fact. A lot of the crew were cowards and abandoned ship long before any passengers got off.
We have these two MASSIVE gates along our perimeter fence where I work, that all of our fire escapes open into. They are solid steel and heavy enough to take two people to slide open. On top of that, the rollers were installed wrong and hinder the doors signify. The footpath gate was also installed backwards and can only be opened from the outside perimeter. When I started watching your videos, a colleague and I flung both gates open and jammed them in place.
It’s the 2nd time I’ve heard about this beautiful ship going up in flames 🔥 , so sad 😞 that you think that you’re ready to enjoy a nice lake cruise only to meet your maker, only ship cruise that I was on was from Bar Harbor, Maine and it lasted only a few hours ! I was very young, maybe 10 years old and always remember the loud fog horn as we disappeared from sight into one very dense fog bank about a mile or 2 off shore, I remember sitting outside with my back against the wooden cabin where most people where but I was so glad to be outside !! When you are doing something like that a fire was the last thing on my mind !
The sinking of the RMS Empress of Ireland was our worst maritime disaster, it sank in the Saint Laurence River on 29 May 1914, after colliding with the collier Storstad, tragically, 1,012 perished in the disaster.
Decorator: "Let's decorate the ship with wood." Arsonist: "No, that's not flammable enough." Decorator: "OK. How about oily wood?" Arsonist: "I can work with that."
Hey. I was at work today and we had cause to open the fire door to let someone in. I noticed that it was bolted and when we came to close it again, my colleague went to bolt the door and the top and bottom. We are on the 4th floor. I said 'Is this the fire door?' and the guy said 'yeah' and I said 'So why are you bolting it?' he was like 'because we're supposed to'. I haven't been there long but I made sure that the bolts were NOT put back on. I don't think I would have been so passionate and so firm if I hadn't watched this channel and understood how something simple like a bolted fire door can kill lots of people. You are doing great work. I'm still furious about it.
I hope you made a call to your local fire marshal inspector. I'm sure there are plenty more violations at that building.
What does it mean to 'bolt' a door?
Good for you 👏👏👏🤝☯️😉
@@ALuimes lock 🔒
My philosophy is...
HINDSIGHT is a mofo!!!
😵🥴
My sister and I were preteen when we each stood in our driveway near the front sidewalk on Utica st in Buffalo in 1951 . A small older lady was walking past us and she was so disfigured that we both unthinkingly stared intently at her without saying a word . Knowing we were to young to realize or understand her situation , or what had happened she stopped for a few moments , smiled slightly and said ,"I was badly burned on the Noronic cruise ship in Toronto" . We never said anything to her but went back in our house to tell 'mom' about seeing a lady who was on the Noronic . I can still picture this lady to this day .
I live in Buffalo and I can't believe I never knew about this tragedy!
Poor woman. She was so gracious to smile at the two of you and explain what had happened.
What's up with your use of quote marks on the word, 'mom'....? Bizarre choice
How do you know she wasn't a ghost?
There was a kid around my age that was badly burned in the small town my great grandma lived in, was her neighbor. He was lucky to be alive as he burned most of his body with fuel in their garage. I’d see him out and about and knew what he’d been through so his appearance didn’t strike me as it did for those who didn’t know, he’s now married with kids but he was severely burned over most of his body and lost his ears, some fingers, etc. When my dad was in the burn unit for his arm from a welding torch as a kid, my mom never took us to visit him after the first time. We were all so traumatized by the screams of agony from other patients. My dads wasn’t even that bad compared to others and he was in so much pain. My dad worked in a steel mill most his life and my husband has for 22 years now and has lots of small burns and can’t grow a beard past here his face shield protects.
I was a student nurse at St Michael's Hospital in the late 60s when it was still run by the Sisters of St Joseph. One evening I was working with an older nurse who was talking about her years as a student at the same hospital. She told me she had needed an emergency appendectomy during her second year of nursing school so had been admitted to the hospital for surgery. A couple of days later she was asleep in her hospital bed when she was shaken awake by one of the sisters who handed her her dressing gown and told her to get down to the emergency department. The Noronic disaster had occurred and the hospital needed as many nurses as possible to deal with the incoming flood of patients. She spent the next hours working in her housecoat and slippers and had, obviously, never forgotten the catastrophe.
I see nothing has changed with dragging hospital staff in when they’re 2/3 alive themselves…
@@SDChick "if you can walk and talk and move things, you're able to help save lives."
Wow, no time to recover there. God bless her. I wouldn't want to be medical personnel when such a disaster overtakes them. Whew....
I can speak for this incident as 100% true! What was left out us that the nurses spent hours choreographing a dance routine before they responded!
@@SDChick Gotta make them tiktok dance videos!
I remember reading a book about this disaster many years ago. It astonished me that this fire could be so deadly while the ship was sitting at the dock in Toronto. This disaster so overwhelmed emergency services that the horticulture building on the near by Canadian National Exhibition grounds had to be used as a temporary morgue. It’s sad that this was the beginning of the end of an era. Although there are a handful of ships beginning to cruise the Great Lakes again, they are stopping at Port Colborne on Lake Erie-on the western side of the Welland Canal from Toronto where this ship burned. Thank you for retelling this story, the victims of the Noronic need to be remembered
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Finally it's here YES
It had wooden panels and furniture which had been polished with flammable lemon oil for half a century. It might as well been polished with kerosene or turpentine.
For a school project I made a newspaper on this but because I was young I thought the cops would get me for plagiarism so I used information from this disaster and applied it to the Noronic’s sister ship the Harmonic and said the Noronic sunk 20 years before the Harmonic which is untrue as the Harmonic sank two years earlier in 1945 also due to fire while docked in Sarnia, Ontario. Oddly similar sinking.
It's similar to the Eastland. It was tied up at a berth on the Chicago river in the middle of downtown. It had always been top heavy, and one day while passengers were on board for a day trip, it capsized. Many people were drowned or otherwise killed because they couldn't make it out of the ship. In the middle of downtown Chicago!
Just had a Great Lakes Cruise ship stop in Muskegon this past week. Supposed to have 7 stop this year.
Meanwhile, the Noronic's sister ship, the Hamonic, also met a tragic end by fire. It was destroyed at the dock in Sarnia, Ontario (the city where I reside) in July, 1945. Amazingly, unlike the Noronic, everyone on the Hamonic survived. This Ontarian thanks you for featuring a local disaster, and doing an amazing job with it.
The gentleman that noticed the smoke was also a person who worked as a fire specialist for a insurance company. The bellboy who had opened the linen closet did hammer on doors yelling for people to get off the ship before running for the captain
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Maybe he was supposed to be some kind of a specialist, but shouldn't a specialist know that you don't open a door when there's smoke coming out from under it? I'm pretty sure experts must have known in 1949 that you don't open a door when there is a fire behind it.
@@kellyp136 the video said that the passenger went to go get his family. It was then that the bellboy opened the door.
@@ItsJustLisa The video said he tried to open it himself and was standing there when the bellboy opened it so apparently he was not aware what a bad idea it was.
@@kellyp136 They had grabbed the fire hose and had prepared to fight the backdraft but the fire hose failed and the small extinguisher was too small to fight it
My great aunt (my grandmother's sister) and her husband died in the fire. Apparently they made it off safe, but she went back on for her purse, and they never made it back off. The Cleveland Plain Dealer listed her as a survivor initially. She never really talked about it, but I can imagine that was terrible for my grandmother, thinking she made it off, then finding out she didn't. I have a picture of my great aunt, aged about 10, hanging in the hallway outside our bedroom.
Great video.
My dad was a new firefighter when this fire happened. I remember him telling me about this one. We were at the CNE and we were walking through the floral building. He said this was where they brought the victims and he couldn’t shake the smell of death and flowers.
One of the pictures you showed I have as well. I can spot my dad in it.
My father was a police officer working that night in the area. He was the first official on the scene and quickly discovered he couldn’t get anywhere near the ship to help anyone. He said the heat was insane!
Wow! Your Father?! You must be very old!
@@Lil_Angry_Bitch Contrary to popular belief, some baby boomers do indeed use the internet.
@@rafetizer And some baby boomers are very good at tech.
@@Lil_Angry_Bitch Wow! Your juvenile observations should be on billboards!
Big lie
One small correction, iirc the whistle *didn't* fall silent, instead it jammed in the open position, letting off a soul rending endless wail, that I'm sure along with the fire and screaming of victims, haunted many for the rest of their lives.
In a way that's better - at least it attracts attention of something being amiss.
"soul rending endless wail" I'm stealing that for my book lol
@@quillmaurer6563 Reminds me of how the locomotive engineer racing the flood down the Little Conemaugh to Johnstown tied his whistle down. People may not have realized the continually howling train was specifically warning of a flood, but anyone who heard it knew _something_ had gone terribly wrong.
That’s like a house fire I fought in my fire dept days the gas line melted and let out this endless scream them people was cremated
@@ZGryphon Exactly - don't know what it means, but means something ain't right! Could just mean the whistle got jammed, but it's a hint that people should be alert of something amiss.
A ship that became a floating crematorium many of the victims were from Detroit and Cleveland. Also I read that several of the people signed up for the cruise under false names because they were carrying on extramarital affairs. So when it came time to identify the dead it got kind of tricky.
Lol, where tf did you read that? The Onion? I'm sure at least one person onboard was having an affair, but it takes some serious reaching to say "several". Where tf would this "source" even get that info?
@@SkunkApe407 Excursion steamers of that era were a fairly common discrete rendezvous point for lovers. Unlike a hotel they did not require registration, just a ticket for passage. The world before social media was indeed a very different one.
@@SkunkApe407 using fake names was a lot more common then. You could move states and become a completely different person.
@@georgemckenna462 - Exactly. Nobody could text "U up" to their side piece like they can now.
@@SkunkApe407 to be fair, "several" is not much of a reach.
As usual, this was a concise and articulate video. Over the past year or so, the Great Lakes cruise industry has been seeing a massive resurgence.
Yeah, now that you mention it, I live in the Niagara region and the shipyard in St. Catharines (on the Welland canal) is active again after (what seems like) several decades of lying dormant/empty. It's nice to see it in action again and people working there.
I've noticed that as well. The Pandemic has made many people realize how much there is to explore right in their own backyards. Many people are choosing to cruise the Great Lakes now, instead of flying halfway around the world to cruise on a giant, 4000-passenger ship.
I just saw an ad yesterday about a full on cruise ship that’s now sailing from the great lakes out into the Atlantic and down to Florida, and all i could think was “yum, a floating cesspool of germs and viruses!”
I get people are missing travel, but to me cruise ships are the least desireable place to be after a 2 year long pandemic!
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Finally it's here YES
Yep. A big one took off maybe a week ago from MN, and the cost is around $50k a person.
One detail I remember reading about the Noronic disaster that horrified me is that the fire burned so hot for so long that most of the glass on every deck was melted and that the recovery crews found bodies that were burned all the way down to their skeletons, or in some cases the skeletons were half burned to ash. Pretty freaky to think something so horrific could happen within a few yards of land.
ya.. when water was right there.
@@keetahbrough lot of good water does when it turns to steam before it even touches the fire.
Makes u think of hell and how either many of us deny it outright or r not prepared enough to avoid it.
The fact that the linen cupboard was locked and required a key to open it, suggests it was not arson. But cleaning fluids are a notorious source of spontaneous combustion and that is why they are (now) stored separately in limited quantities and in a fireproof locker.
Unless it was started by a crew member. Who knows
If they had linseed oil for treating the woodwork, that stuff is wildly subject to spontaneous combustion.
@@ostrich67 Any flammable liquids which can evaporate out and are stored in a closed locker with cloths or bedding etc is a fire waiting to happen. The liquid condensates onto the cloth and when it reaches a certain concentration it ignites. Oily rags allowed to accumulate in a bin or deep drum is another classic.
@@k9killer221 oh jeez, good thing my work place uses these weird bags for collecting our rags.
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 I was shocked when I found this out, I also had no idea about this phenomenon.
I feel bad for the bellhop, how a lot of people are blaming him. How could he have known the fire extinguisher wouldn't work. If it had, we'd be watching some other horrendous tragedy right now. And beyond that, Mr Bigshot told him to open it. Bellhops job is to basically do as they're told. The guy carries bags, he hasn't become a RUclips fire expert like the rest of us. He obviously was trying to be helpful, and then he even tried to subdue the flames. When he couldn't he ran for the captain. Who knows? It may have turned out even worse had the fire been allowed to sneak through the various channels and envelope the entire ship all at once. Sooner or later, someone had to open something.
In an alternate universe:
"Investigators criticized the crew for not attempting to tackle the blaze with a nearby fire extinguisher while it was still small enough to be contained. By allowing the fire to fester in the closet, the ship's crew allowed it to spread unhindered throughout the ship via the wooden bulkheads."
@@MatthewBoonstra Poor guy was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. He was gonna end up living with the guilt of feeling responsible for many deaths no matter what he did. I'm also gonna assume he was at no point informed of the fact that the he was surrounded by wood that had been soaked in glorified gasoline for the last 50 years. Within EIGHT minutes, HALF the deck space was on fire. Holy shit- when you look at the size of that ship- 8 minutes. No standard worker like a bellhop could have ever imagined in million years a fire could spread that fast. It's like if instead of a person, Jessie Owens had been born a fire. It had to have damn near beat him to the captain's room. I literally cannot imagine a fire spreading across a luxury ocean liner in 8 minutes, how that must have looked. There is no way he could have or should have expected that to happen. That fire and all the lives that were lost that night were the responsibility of the person who started it.
Crewmen get tunnel vision when faced with an emergency. When in the navy there was a fire in the laundry which I smelled and called in the smoke to the bridge so they could sound the fire alarm then I ran back to "fight" the fire. I should have taken a moment to yell to the other sailors still asleep but . . . well, I wanted that fire out. That's tunnel vision and it was almost literally a tunnel. If any of you have been in an emergency you probably know what I mean.
@@poutinedream5066 "glorified gasoline" ? You don't exaggerate much, do you?
@@FRLN500 it's no exaggeration
The ship's captain despite allegedly lacking in leadership still performed his duty to the best of his abilities. Most ships lost in recent years all have captains who are always the first one to leave and doesnt even bother to issue a ship abandonment order, I'll looking at you Italian cruise captains. Meanwhile this fine gentleman helped the passenger the best way he could and was even one of the last to leave a burning ship.
Like the captain of the Italian liner who sailed too close to the coast and sank. He was found by the commander of the coast guard and told to return to the ship to facilitate rescue, and refused after being ordered to return.
Costa Concordia immediately came to mind, so your comment about Italian captains made me laugh.
@@vincent412l7 yup! The Costa Concordia! I'd love to see a documentary here about that one. I have a weird fascination with that story.
Yes you can add that one to the Italian tank description of one forward and 5 reverse gears.
@@LMGame4 internet historian has a pretty in depth, if comedic telling of the disaster. Round 42ish mins long.
I always wondered why we had no large cruise ship industry here.
This explains it.
It's an interesting yet heartbreaking story.
Insurance companies help make public policy on safety
Two new companies are launching great lakes cruises this year! They look pretty cool/fun, but they're also rather pricey.
Well, we never had a navy, so why have any kind of big boats, amirite?
Sorry, just had to poke an angry historical jab at the gremlin who TURNED DOWN the idea of the RCN getting Queen Elizabeth-class BATTLESHIPS after WW1.
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 ~ during WWII the Great Lakes hosted a pair of paddle wheel-powered training aircraft carriers. No Jerry's or Japs dared attack Lake Michigan...
i live in an older building. sometimes i stay up all night until i know people are getting up to go to work. it makes me feel better that at least one person is awake and alert in case anything happens
My father was with St. John Ambulance at the time as a volunteer. He was haunted by his memory of the aftermath... My Dad & others were tasked with retrieving the charred bodies from the ship...
I grew up hearing about the fire on SS Norinic. My mother remembers the news stories vividly.
I eould not say that passenger service on the Great Lakes ended soon after this tragedy. SS Keewatin was in service for another 16 years, finally being taken out of service in1965. She is being restored as a museum ship to highlight the opulence of the Great Lake steamers. She was used in one episode of Murdoch Mysteries.
You pack so much interesting information into your short documentary videos it's amazing. I look forward to ALL of your videos. I have learned so much, I really appreciate your hard work that you put into each one. Thank you so much.
Despite the tragedy, knowing the quick responses from that factory guy who got the help of a painter barge, the taxis, the hotels and red cross, all coming together to help either by choice or instructed does show the deep care we humans still have for one another, even under grim times.
I was a floor fire warden in a 17 storey office block in Birmingham, UK before I retired. One morning we had a fire drill, involving several hundred people making their way down a long line of twisting stairs. All went well until the first people reached the street exit door and discovered it was locked and bolted - and no key........ Fortunately everybody heard the warning yells of "Everybody HALT!" and reacted immediately. Some genius had ordered the fire escape exit sealed to stop vagrants sneaking into the building........... and there, but for the grace of God........
Putting fires out on ships is a nightmare and a half, no matter where they are. They were surely aided by being docked, but still faced too many challenges to save the ship. Too many other mistakes regarding fire proofing had already been made.
As a side note, if you want to learn more about ship fires, and what it takes to put them out, I would highly recommend looking into the Maersk Honam salvage operation. As a salvage operation it was quite incredible and it was remarkable how much of the ship was saved.
@@Law-and-Disorder Thanks, will look it up.
I was just thinking "how does a ship, on the water, but by the dock, burn up, and how do a bunch of people die?" Guess I'm bout to find out.
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Finally it's here YES
At that time my grandmother was a nurse at Toronto General. She recalls how it was one of her worst nights. She was still upset about it 60 years later. 😔
My father worked at Toronto General Hospital Mortuary at the time of the Noronic fire. He told us it was one of the worst nights of his life (and he was in WWII). They received calls in the middle of the night and worked through the next two days and many extra hours beyond that. It was a very sad and exhausting time with no extra pay that would ultimately have him quit and find a new career.
Imagine if the fire had happened when they were out in the middle of the lake. There would have been very few survivors.
Yeah I'm wondering if anyone actually drowned, I'm from Toronto and that water is freezing in the middle of the summer - it's the third deepest lake at 802 feet. Not a lot of people swim in it.
unlikely, mostly cause they would had been able to use the life rafts that were onboard. There also would had been more crew and active patrons.
@@hellomark1 Wikipedia says only one drowned. Not that WP is necessarily authoritative.
@@Ragetiger1 Yeah that was my thoughts as well. It would've been a more panicked situation certainly, but perhaps with more crew the rescue would've been more well-orchestrated. Then again, perhaps the reason only ~200 died was because so many passengers were off-ship at the time. Hard to say one way or the other.
@@hellomark1, Superior is the deepest at 1,332 feet. Also cold in the summer unless you are right close to shore. Even then it’s pretty chilly, but I have been swimming in it in August. We were in Duluth.
Have watched videos on the Noronic before and this was one of the most clearly explained. Also love that I am in New Zealand and got to watch it so soon after it was published 🇳🇿💕
perks of being a kiwi aye?
Hi fellow Kiwi!
Umm... the Internet is 24/7. So not sure how you think you are lucky you see it so sooner than others 😆.
Let's not assume Ruth isn't merely visiting the lovely lands of Aotearoa
@@brisbanite5460 she's pointing out that some other countries would not be able to watch right away because they're sleeping.. so it's good timing. Kinda easy to understand tbh, but then again someone from Brisbane would find even the alphabetical difficult lmao
I feel for the Captain, and certainly understand his retiring from service after this horror. But, it never ceases to amaze me, that it takes such a tragedy before common-sense safety measures are taken. It's not as though cruise liners were a 'new' thing in 1949.
Unfortunately, most "common-sense" safety procedures have been put in place due to reactive, not proactive, measures. Seems we humans have been unable to realize things like, say, doors that open inwards will actually trap a panicking crowd inside.
@@ChristieAdamsKangoo Right? Go figure...
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Finally it's here YES
I suspect he felt guilty after failing to tell his skeleton crew to wake all the passengers and tell them to evacuate promptly.
As they say, most safety rules are written in blood.
Critics always look for a scapegoat. It’s a shame that the Captain, who helped so many evacuate the doomed vessel and was the last to leave, was blamed for failures beyond his control.
True, but he's the guy in charge, and if you're a captain of a ship and something happens to it, it's expected you take some responsibility, even if it was beyond your control. In this case I'm thinking they probably felt he could've rallied his crew more to save more people instead of him acting alone, and probably should not have let so many of his crew be off duty. He probably also has some responsibility in the upkeep of the failed fire equipment and emergendy whistle.
Crew didn’t have training, was the fault of the ship’s owner who didn’t make sure his employees knew how to handle a fire, but they probably passed the blame to the captain
At least, as far as maritime law is concerned the Captain enjoys the power of a feudal lord on his ship. With that power, including the ability to perform a legally binding marriage, he is also ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE.
It doesn't seem fair. AND the owners of boats, even plank owners, aren't necessarily presumed to know a damn thing about ships, the ocean, lakes or any of the such... They're only the business side of shipping. The Captain is expected to be on top of everything from the shipboard petty cash to budgeting for training and upkeep. He's THE law onboard...
...AND if the Captain can't get along with the owners to his satisfaction as far as training the crew and demands per shift / watch are concerned, he should have the ballz to step up and leave the ship with his formal complaints on the matter brought to adequate authorities.
Sorry, but a term in the Navy will bring up this kind of thing. If my CO was responsible when I did something stupid, then this Captain was responsible for his crew ultimately being stupid... poorly trained... or less than stellar in their dedications. ;o)
@@jessica_R_9167 So I can blame the President for loosing my grandmother to Covid then and blame the owner of the tire company that left me stranded with a flat tire. Should workers own the company too so everyone gets blamed?
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Finally it's here YES
Informative, handsomely-assembled, and above all compassionate, as always. I never hesitate to click when you release a new video. The work must be incredibly time-consuming. Thanks so much for keeping these stories alive. I'm sure the since-passed survivors and the victims would feel the same.
From Toronto, this was very interesting I have never heard of this tragedy. You do a good job of telling the story.
Me too..
@@k8teeeeeeee ayye
I work and go to school in Toronto. His pronunciation of Toronto was excellent, but so different from what I’m used to hearing
@@tiikafiredancer5016 he sounds like he’s from out of town 😂 torono is how the locals say it
@@blxvkpxndx I sometimes get down as far as Chrahnna. There have been research papers papers written on the various pronunciations and how it changes as you move away from downtown
1. Never open a door (knowing there was smoke exiting the bottom) to allow oxygen in.
2. The fire hose malfunctioning?
3. The alarm failing?
4. Crew members not being trained for a fire scenario.
5. It all sounds very moronic to me.
This, the Yarmouth Castle (also the Gordon Lightfoot ballad about it), the Morrow Castle, and many, many, many others show filling a floating thing with flammable things is never a good idea, all the way up to the modern day too.
Um...any time a ship is the largest/most prestigious it doesn't usually end well.
Gordon Lightfoot also has a ballad about the 1963 Timonstown mine fire too, and, of course, the Edmund Fitzgerald, too. I've yet to find any songs/ballads about the Noronic though.
Thanks for the listening recommendations! Stories like these are why you won't catch me on a cruise ship even with all the modern safety equipment. lol
Somewhere out there the smallest, most mediocre cruise ship is still sailing and going strong.
Seriously, the rhyming scheme of Noronic/moronic is so tasty, it’s unbelievable nothing has ever been attempted.
Is it just me or is it weird that Gordon Lightfoot write so many songs about tragic fires?
@@henryturnerjr3857 I personally wouldn't go because my grandparents would catch the flu about 2/3 of the times they took a cruise. Now COVID'S out and about and I have a sucky ass immune system. I'm not gonna play with fire here.
As always, a well-done video that gives the facts, that isn't sensational, and looks ahead to discuss what was being done to keep it from happening again. The gorgeous aerial shot of my hometowns of Detroit and Windsor was also a nice touch.
I wasn't even aware of this disaster until I saw this video.
Also, not to be flippant about such a horrible event, but back in those days Toronto was dullsville. It wasn't the beautiful, lively metropolis you know today, so I couldn't help but to smile when you said most of the tourists were back on the ship quickly. Back then, Montreal was where the action was.
The Great Lakes cruise industry did go down the tubes, not just because of this disaster, but because more people were driving and flying for vacations. The industry in recent years, however, has made a massive comeback.
Having been born and raised in Michigan it makes me happy to see the industry picking up again. Growing up, it was hard to believed people used to consider cruises in the Great Lakes a luxury. Lake Michigan is beautiful but a hidden gem to most.
I’ve never caught a Fascinating Horror vid so early. This is a great way to start my morning. ☕️
facts
I’m not even sure why I’m awake this early but I’m glad I am!
Haha I just barely caught it before heading to bed. Worth it though.
Good morning.
Excellent coverage of this story; you covered a few things that I hadn't heard before, especially about the arson on the second ship. For another look at this tragedy, including survivor interviews, I recommend Bad Day HQ's "Disasters of the Century: SS Noronic" episode.
Just a further historical comment. In the May 1942 Battle of the Coral Sea, the carrier USS Lexington was torpedoed by a Japanese torpedo bomber. The damage had been contained when suddenly a huge explosion shook the ship and hours later the "Lady Lex" had to be abandoned. The onboard fire also spread rapidly because of wooden furniture and years of using oil-based lead paint. The furniture was discarded and the walls stripped on all of the other carriers in use at the time.
Despite the horror & tragedy of these stories, it always warms my heart when I hear of passersby coming to help. The fact that the vast majority of us have that impulse within us to aid another human in trouble, that overrides any discrepancies we may have with one another on any other given day, gives me such a sense of joy & camaraderie for humanity.
thank you for covering so many important Canadian events so well! I have family around who still remember the events you talk about, and I thank you endlessly for being so respectful to those who passed.
It is sad that someone with "an axe to grind" with the company would do such a horrific thing. This is almost the exact same thing that a man named Rogers did to the SS Morro Castle, starting a fire in a closet used to store blankets and linen for passengers. As in this case, Rogers got away with his crime as no one actually could prove he did it although there was plenty of circumstantial evidence against him. The SS Morro Castle disaster was made even worse by the Keystone Kops actions of the untrained crew.
My mother, who was eleven years old at the time, recalls living next door to a Toronto Firefighter who was prominently featured in Life Magazines coverage of the disaster.
The aftermath of the Noronic fire was not only the demise of passenger cruises but also ferry’s that regularly traversed Lake Ontario from places like Cobourg, Ontario to Rochester, New York.
The passenger cruise industry is actually returning to the Great Lakes with a 71 day cruise leaving from Duluth next year. I just started getting a ton of news articles about it, so great timing with this video!
Is the name of the ship the Moronic?
Expect a new LP from Gordon Lightfoot shortly after the cruises resume. (Is he still alive ? He has to be moving on in years.)
@@GFHanks He's 83, and still performing.
@@leftpastsaturn67 Good on him ! I was a teenager in the mid--late 70's, and I've always enjoyed his music. Since I saw him mentioned in the comments this morning, I've had "Carefree Highway" playing over and over in my head.
Sickening. Thanks for this history lesson. I am learning a great deal about fires and fire safety from this channel. Thank you!!
Wow, that timeline of events... the fire was discovered at 2:30am and only 8 minutes later, half of the decks were on fire already. Those poor people had very little chance of escape. Was it the captain's job to make sure the crew was trained and not their employer?
I imagine that it would be both the captain and the larger employer's job to do so, but it's not like this would be the first time a larger employer would throw someone under the bus even if that's not the case. The captain would in theory know his crew on a more individual basis though, so there's that too.
The larger corporation should have had defined standards for training of all crew. In 1949, I’m going to guess that those standards really didn’t exist. This fire and others like it are probably the reason that all cruises now make every passenger participate in the muster drill before they ever leave the dock and all crew know how to lead fire evacuations.
@@ItsJustLisa just about every regulation is written in blood as some say.
You are one of my favorite creators on YT, no ads, asks for likes, subscribers or to hit the notification bell, bravo, keep up the great content!! And thank you!
Thank you for another well done short documentary! Always great quality!
Ever since I found your channel I’ve been binge watching your videos. Last night I scrolled down only to realize I’ve watched them all… it was a sad feeling! But now it’s like a TV show, I’m all caught up so I just have to wait for the next upload 😁
Yet another tragedy of fire on board a ship where the cause was not determined and no one was brought to book. What was even more shocking is that the ship was docked, and all lives could and should have been saved
It's so interesting to watch these and hear "after this, such and such regulation was put in place" and then hear in another video that this regulation wasn’t followed in a later incident.
Fantastic work, these deep dives into these tragedies. RIP to the lives lost.
As someone who grew up near the shore of one of the Great Lakes, I always wondered why people didn't take cruises of them. It's so sad that this is one of the reasons why.
Today, we see boredom as an extreme disfunction that needs to be avoided at all costs. We absolutely can't sit still and enjoy something. This boat was built for casual living. Back when life was much, much slower. Life was appreciated back then. Now, it's disposable with no value.
Haven't been here in a while, would love to see more stuff like this [trains,ships,planes] covered by you.
Great Video :)
How ironic, a luxurious boat which could entertain you with anything you like, but didn't even have a functioning firehose... Maybe it was for the best that this era of carefree cruising ended...
Recently, I watched a video of some canopy tents catch fire during a party and it's terrifying how fast and consuming fire can be.
Great story. I never heard of it! I enjoy your stories so much.
Ship fires are so scary. My dad was on the Forrestal in 1967 when it caught fire and my husband was on the America in the late 80’s when they had a fire below deck. We just lost a cruise ship Spirit of Norfolk in Norfolk Va. it was on a lunch cruise with 100+ on board when they had a engine fire. Thankfully for another coat and quick response from tug boats nobody died or were hurt. The boat burned for 2 days and it’s a total loss.
I might be totally losing my mind, but did anybody else hear a cell phone go off during the narration?
As always, fantastic work! I’m always so fascinated by the different disasters that took place but nobody talks about.
I think I hear what you mean but I'm pretty sure it's just light background music.
It saddens me that this was the captains final ship. I think he probably lived the remainder of his years, surely depressed. I hope that doesn't make me sound like I don't care about those which parished, I am sorry for your loss. I also hope the man found some peace and forgiveness .
Thanks FH ~ well done, as always!
This story was new to me. RIP to all who perished 😞💔🙏🏼
i am supremely grateful for the fact that despite how many corners my workplace cuts to save money in our products, they don’t cut corners in safety
Love your videos, they are always so well researched and explained. If you need another tragedy to cover you should look up the our Lady of angels school fire in Chicago. It's very sad but pretty interesting and no one else on RUclips have really talked about it. Anyways good video as always!
Locally, we had a string of arsons and there were a couple of us that figured out who it was due to their relation to the properties and them even posting pictures of them being on scene before anybody else more than once. It would've had to be an employee or a decent locksmith to set this fire, just like it was a trusted defender of fire that took out multiple structures in my area. There was a $15,000 reward that we didn't even try to claim once we told the authorities, just trying to save lives. He was related to somebody in power because those of us that pointed it out got fines for property upkeep with our grass cut, hedges trimmed and off street parking. If you look at the roster of both vessels, you will find the answer. I'd imagine he was connected to the owner if not an employee. There are more of those types around than should be, but the scarier part are those that defend them.
First time listener, first time commenter.
I think I love you.
Great overview as always!
Am I the only one who, just based on the name "Noronic" thought this was going to be a White Star Line ship?
What Noro or Noron means ?
My best guess is it was an acronym of -
Northern Navigation Company, and the Richelieu and Ontario Navigation Company- 2 companies that became CSL
No R O N
ic- means" related to" or "common to" which was also a common naming convention of the White Star Line, as you note.
You are talking about Naronic, the White Star Line cargo ship that desappeared in 1893 with a cargo of cattle.
Good storytelling. May the victims journey well, & Capt Taylor too.
I love hearing Great Lakes stories. Would love to hear some more about wrecks in Hudson’s Bay too.
"But the firehose malfunctioned..." well, we know where lack of maintenance leads. Bring on the death. Bloody hell.
Gosh, I am a history buff AND I am from this area and I had no idea that this ever happened. I was so surprised when you said that it took place in Toronto!
May the many souls lost on that day rest peacefully. 🙏🏾 Subscribers not familiar with Toronto will be interested to know that the Harbourfront area (where this heartbreaking disaster took place), along with Toronto General Hospital and St. Michael's Hospital are still actively in use. The Harbourfront is a beloved part of the city. And the hospitals are still a vital part of our Healthcare network. A intriguing and informative video!! 👌🏾
Now that I think about it, there are no cruises across the great lakes that I can know of. I've taken leisurely rides around Cleveland but that's it. I haven't thought about why that would be until now. Informative as always!
The fact that the linen closet was closed and locked and that the nearest firehose did not work says that the fire was deliberate, and that whoever did it had access to keys, knew the weaknesses of the ship, and fully intended to destroy it. That means it was either part of an insurance scam by the company itself or an attempt to put the company out of business by a competitor, possibly by a competing ocean liner company seeking to supplant lake cruising. That it was done while most people were assumed to be off exploring the city says it wasn't done to hurt people intentionally, although they clearly didn't care if accidental deaths happened.
Maybe, but if they hadn’t intended to hurt anyone, why wait until late in the evening when most passengers had returned?
@@mindyschocolate It's not that they went out of their way to avoid hurting people, just that they clearly didn't intentionally want to hurt people. Their goal was the destruction of the ship, not taking people's lives. They did it at a time when they probably figured there would be fewest people on board.
@@mindyschocolate Perhaps whomever lit the fire did so earlier, and it only caught much later in the night.
@@yatokami7907 The fire would have been small inside a closed closet. Once the doors were opened and air came in the fire quickly grew. That is physics.
@@mindyschocolate maybe they needed the darkness to carry out the action, so they wont be noticed.
Good story. Thank you for fitting it with the history of steamships on the Great Lakes.
That’s so sad! Fire on a ship is terrifying
I think a quick sinking would be worse. Like that Estonian Ferry. It went down in the Baltic Sea in freezing temperatures. So quickly.
@@brisbanite5460 let’s face it, sinking or fire - neither is good and both are downright scary.
Hey fascinating horror. I live just 50 km east of Toronto. Have never heard this story before!! Very interesting. Thanks for the history lesson. Love your channel. Cheers Ontario 🇨🇦
Another great video. I do look forward to Tuesday so watch 10 mins of quality video
This is EXACTLY the kind of content I look for ❤️ you’ have an amazing talent and channel
Thanks for yet another great video. I'm not sure why, but I find accounts of large passenger and cruise ships wrecking out very interesting. It's probably just me being a history buff, even though I really don't care for any other Maritime stuff.
My general rule of thumb is, never get inside anything whose name is literally one letter off from "moronic"
The scariest horror comes doesn't come from fiction, but reality, where people stay dead AFTER the cameras stop rolling.
Proof reading your comments helps.
Indeed, my friend, you raise a valid point.
Viewer from the Great Lakes state of Muchigan here! Thanks for this bit of history.
The fire service did a fantastic job putting that fire out in such a short time , ship fires are not easy to control.
I red the title as "SS Naronic". Only later I realised, the video is not about 1893 mysterious tragedy of the steamer called Naronic. I believe, you should make a video about that one too, it's one of the most interesting, mysterious ship disasters ever...
Sounds like a deliberate fire. Fire inside a locked linen closet, firehose near it doesn't work, alarms don't work. When too many coincidences line up they are no longer coincidences
I agree; it also sounds like negligence also came into play as well.
As a Toronto resident, this is the first time I've even heard of this disaster. Very informative and chilling stuff 👍
They say the heat was so intense that the water from the fire hoses was turning to steam before it hit its objective.
Best way to start the morning 😌
Hope everyone's doing well today.
Nothing is scarier to me than when people do the right thing in an emergency and it just isn't enough. Grabbing a fire extinguisher, naïve but okay, running to the tell the captain, good. But just not enough.
This wasn't some rinky-dink hand held fire extinguisher either, but a full scale marine fire hose. If it had worked, odds are that the fire could have actually put out. Especially tragic.
Wow! I have heard of it but never saw a dedicated video to it. Love the video! Great job.
If there is anything I've learned from FH it's to always identify where the exits are and if there is smoke coming from a room NEVER OPEN THE DOOR!!
I still remember the psa's when I was a kid. It's true- if you have reason to suspect a fire on the other side of s door- do NOT open it. Stuff a towel under it, or wherever smoke is coming in from and get the hell out. It also said if the doorknob is hot, you don't want no part of it. I guess there really is no good reason for a hot doorknob, so you supposed to get th hell out and call somebody.
@@poutinedream5066 Oh yeah! I head about the door knob thing as a kid too.
I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't have been common knowledge, even in 1949. And both men tried to open the door! And supposedly one of them was some kind of fire expert for an insurance company. A couple of people got cocky, thinking they could put the fire out themselves. If they had gone and got in the fire department right away, that fire would not have spread that fast. They were there within 11 minutes of the fire being discovered. There was a lot wrong that happened in this whole scenario but the disaster would have been averted if they had just left that door shut.
There seems to be some kind of rogue instinct to do with opening a door onto a fire, it happened to me once in a workshop, smoke was coming from under the door of a store room and when I brought it to the attention of the others there they rushed as a man to the door to open it even with me shouting and fighting then to leave it shut, very strange, all ended well as the fire happened near a water hose. The fire was caused by a faulty electrical appliance
@@rotax636nut5 But for a small closet, there wouldn't be much of a blowback. And if you're prepared with a hose ready...
Another fantastic video! Thanks for your thorough research and concise explanations! I’m always happy when I see your videos come up. My only request, more videos about Alaska!
This disaster reminded me of the Morro Castle. The ship was still in motion as it burned and ran aground in the New Jersey shore. The Captain and the Radio operator were considered suspects. The Captain because he had ignored the concerns of the crew and passengers(I think he died onboard the ship) and the Radio operator, who was hailed as a hero for not leaving his post and continually sending radio messages for help. It was believed that the Radio operator was responsible for the starting the fire onboard and causing the deaths of many people.
In the case of the SS Noronic, I think it may have been an inside job. But that may be a coincidence since the small crew was inexperienced in dealing with a fire onboard ship. It is sad about the loss of lives during that time.
The Captain died of other causes on the way back from Cuba. The commander (XO) took charge of the ship at that point, and was found to be negligent after the fact. A lot of the crew were cowards and abandoned ship long before any passengers got off.
I look forward to you videos every week. Thank you for the great work.
I got an ad for the American Cruise Line before this video... 😳
Wow, I live on Lake Erie. Never heard of this. I love your videos! Thank you for the information as always!
Please do a video on the Buhl Building massacre in Detroit, it just passed its 40th anniversary and would be perfect for a fascinating horror video.
It’s more effective to email him.
We have these two MASSIVE gates along our perimeter fence where I work, that all of our fire escapes open into. They are solid steel and heavy enough to take two people to slide open. On top of that, the rollers were installed wrong and hinder the doors signify. The footpath gate was also installed backwards and can only be opened from the outside perimeter.
When I started watching your videos, a colleague and I flung both gates open and jammed them in place.
It’s the 2nd time I’ve heard about this beautiful ship going up in flames 🔥 , so sad 😞 that you think that you’re ready to enjoy a nice lake cruise only to meet your maker, only ship cruise that I was on was from Bar Harbor, Maine and it lasted only a few hours ! I was very young, maybe 10 years old and always remember the loud fog horn as we disappeared from sight into one very dense fog bank about a mile or 2 off shore, I remember sitting outside with my back against the wooden cabin where most people where but I was so glad to be outside !!
When you are doing something like that a fire was the last thing on my mind !
I went to the memorial/plaque that is set up near the waterfront in Toronto for this disaster.
The sinking of the RMS Empress of Ireland was our worst maritime disaster, it sank in the Saint Laurence River on 29 May 1914, after colliding with the collier Storstad, tragically, 1,012 perished in the disaster.
That’s just too sad it happened right in port… 😢 Forgot to say what an informative video of the story this is. Thank you for all your hard work.
Decorator: "Let's decorate the ship with wood."
Arsonist: "No, that's not flammable enough."
Decorator: "OK. How about oily wood?"
Arsonist: "I can work with that."