The "CAT" in CAT40 stands for Caterpillar Inc. as opposed to Category 40. CAT designed the flange of the taper (or more specifically the format of the toolholder) to work more effectively with Automatic tool changers hence the credit for the design goes to them. Not trying to sound rude just clarifying ;-)
I cannot agree more with the others who praised this video. Superb job, guys! The level of detail, comprehensive coverage of the matter, clear and coherent presentation - these are just some of the things I liked about this video. Liked and subscribed.
The tap follows the hole . If the hole isn’t straight the tap will break. As you drill the drill gets dull and the drill walks off center and the tap will brake .
Exceptional video....subsribed and hit the bell..need much more in depth info on the code and all other pertinant information... I do hope you are well paid and nurtured for this work.
so if you have rigid tapping, you already have the necessary card to add a rotary table? Im looking to get a 15xt as a first machine and all your videos have been really helpful
sir we have thread wash issue in rigid tapping when we press emergency of sudden power cut. What is the cause for this. Z axis drop observed 30-40 micron during pressing emergency.
Hey Tim, watching this in 2018! Just wondering, you only work with Fadal? Don't you work with more generic controlers, like fanuc for example? At least here in Portugal it is the mostly well knownd controler, and I was watching this video trying to see an example of a working stable G code program for rigid tapping, but your G codes are all very new to me. As you said in the video, all the controlers have very specific G coding on Rigid Taping, so after that i knew it was not going to work, so i grabed my manual and started reading haha. Quick question on the feedback coder, in my case, feedback encoder. I make retrofittings on Cnc Machine-Tools, and i usualy work with 1024 impulse encoders for the spindle feedback. On rigid taping, can i consider this: more impulses -> more acuracy on each rotation -> better control on the syncronization between Z and Spindle Speed? Or 1024 is far more than enough to make every kind of threading? Thanks for the video, sub'd instantly after this one.
Thanks for the sub! I only have a Fadal in my shop, so that is all I can film at this time. Fadal uses a 1000 count encoder on the spindle and it works good. More resolution can't hurt as long as your controller can measure the higher frequencies. Controlling better depends on if your controller can use the finer resolution and faster update rate to better sync with.
There are some calibration parameters to keep the Z and spindle in sync. There are also tap holders that have a tiny amount of flex to them for rigid tapping but I have never needed them.
I had a technician replace my spindle drive inverter on my 4020 a while ago. He never tuned it for rigid tapping. He said that I needed a new motor before he could fine tune it. The motor bearings have some miles on them, but they are fine. Is it possible to make a video explaining how to tune a machine for rigid tapping?
After a G53 Z0. my machine will not raise the z axis to machine coordinate 0 position. Do I need to change a parameter? Otherwise I'm totally new to CNC and your vids got me going. Thanks again!
Hi Tim , Great videos. could you make one on how you changed the post for a format 2 Fadal post. I also run a Fadal on format 2 and am starting to use Fusion as my programming system.It would be greatly appreciated
Yes, I have been asked before to make a rigid tapping video. I have been holding off because it really touched a lot of code because there are some preparatory statements and switches. Some people have also asked for a difference between format 1 and 2. I will make those shortly before we jump into motors and controls.
Did you have to manually change the tapping program? After you post G-Code with the fadal post processor in Fusion, do you modify the G-Code to make the Rigid Tapping feature work? Every time I have tried to "rigid tap" on my Fadal (EMC which has Rigid Tapping) I broke a tap! Could you explain what I need to change in my program after creating g-code? Is there a way to change the Post Processing so that you don't have to modify your G-Code every single time?
The fadal post in fusion does not use the rigid tapping commands because those are optional on most machines. I modified my post to use the rigid tapping routines for my machine. That mod is a little involved as it changes a few sections of the post to get it to follow the fadal format.
Hi Tim, great job on your videos. very clear and concise. keep it up and the subscribers will come. I recently went through the personal cnc or vmc exercise. ended up with a nice older front turret type machine. I have been uploading video on it and some of the parts I make, but don't even come close to your quality. not to mention 1 subscrber. check mine out if you like. rigid tapping was one of the reasons I went vmc. other main reason was it was 5 g's cheaper all said and done. what are you using to film and edit?
Hello gtech, thank you for the comments. I found with you tube if you want to even give it a go you should setup a channel and do all the misc stuff. Setup a banner, user pic, about page, it is a lot more work then some may think. I do a lot of presenting and meetings as my day job, I also teach classes in software programming. That helps with the speaking and message part, but connecting with the camera was a big challenge for me. Talking to a little black box with a red light by my self seems silly. I think I'm getting a little better. I'm currently not expecting or getting any money from the videos, so I'm not putting any real money into them. I mainly shoot with my Sony HDR-CX550 on a tripod. Then a GoPro 1080 on a Noga holder in the machine. It was $100 camera, cheapest thing in the machine in case I destroy it. I also have a Nikon D800 if I really want to get fancy. For editing software I"m just using some free shareware, VSDC by Flash Integro. It does a decent job. If the channel takes off I will invest in some higher end software, but for now I'm putting in what I expect to get out. I really started the channel to help people who are interested in getting a used VMC and to get some exposure for my company, possible some machining jobs. Thanks for the interest and keep up the good work.
So quick question. I noticed that the offset callouts are in Format 1 but the comments in the preamble say "Format 2" I the machine seems to be running in Format 1, have you tried to tap in Format 2 and if so what changes to the code are needed? I just picked up a 4020HT and am super excited to clean it up and start running parts!
Hmmmmm... I guess I just don't know enough about the Fadal control yet. I was looking through your program and it seemed like it was using "the E" fixture offsets which I thought was Format 1 instead of the "G54" fixture offsets which I thought was part of Format 2 I have been watching all of your videos and have to say excellent job sir!
Thank you, you can use the E offsets or the G code offsets in both formats. The G code offsets are very limited in quantity. Using the E offsets you can have up to 48 I believe.
Oh I see, thanks! I am very excited to see your review of the Calmotion Control. Once this thing pays it self off that's the next thing that I am looking to put in it.
about to use a spiral flute tap for the first time. is there a recommendation other than standard pre drill sizes? Do spiral flute taps require different pre-dril size?
Hello Pete, Spiral flute or spiral point taps don't need anything special. The drill size dictates the amount of thread engagement and thus how hard it is on the tap. Typically on aluminum I use a 75% engagement and on steels and hard materials I use about a 55% engagement. As always be sure to do the stress calculations for your specific case to figure out what thread engagement your application requires. And never use a hand tap for rigid tapping, it wont clear the chips correctly and most likely fail.
At least it lasted 3! ;) If you are tapping through holes get spiral point taps, they will push the chips out the bottom of the hole rather then bring them up through the threads. Better chip evacuation.
yea! my Harbor freight tap set is now missing it's 3mmx.5.. Only the best for this guy.. It didn't help that the blind hole ended up against my soft jaw either. No place for the chips to go. Editing the jaws for clearance.
LOL Harbor Freight hand tap for Rigid tapping in a CNC, that is a new one! At least your only out what, about a cent? Oh, plus the cost of the part or time to burn the tap out ;) Just kidding Pete :)
Hello againWell...... You can't, watched that video closely there!The Fadal post processor that ships with Fusion does not work with Rigid tapping unfortunately.I wrote that post processor myself and had to modify a fair amount to get rigid tapping to work correctly. I also modified it to follow some of my standard stuff I came up with to make life a little easier.Does your machine have the rigid tapping option?
Tim, no it doesn't, TRM has whatever the rest of fadal have but rigid tapping, but it does have format 2 which is my concern. I have bunch of fanuc programs that I am thinking to use them in the format 2 . I also have inventor hsm pro 2016 along side with fusion 360 one year trial version but neither have fadal format 2.cps. can you please educate me how to get format2 post. Thanks
Ah, ok. The format setting, IE 1 or 2 just controls how the machine interprets G code. I started with the standard Fadal post from Fusion and I think it worked correctly in format 2, though I did not run it long before getting my hands in there. Format 1 is basically Fadal's take on how they thought G code should be run, Format 2 is how the rest of the world uses G code, my opinion of interpretation. I think Fanuc formatted code will run on Format 2 for the most part. The nice thing, if there is no tool in the spindle and nothing on the table it is impossible to crash these machines. This is because the spindle can not go low enough to hit the table. This way you can dry run your code and see how it behaves. This is how I learned the "Fadal" way they want to see the code. Write a test program and watch it run, see if it does what you expect. I recommend downloading the manuals if you don't have them from here. www.flintmachine.com/products-fadal-technical-manuals.html Read section 21 of the user manual. This lists the behavior differences between the formats. The biggest one was how offsets get applied, format 1 moves to the offset, format 2 does not move until you call a move function later in the code. Hope that helps, Tim
Hello Tim, Thanks for the tips and the information.You are doing awesome work and I wish you and people like you never quit. One of important part of your video is your clear voice! Looking forward to watch your upcoming video Thanks again Shem
LOL thanks man! I use Techniks stuff as well, I didn't even know they made those. Going to need to order me some of those. The square drive in the back ensures the tap wont spin, I like it!
I almost exclusively use SYIL (Techniks). Our other collets are Command www.commandtool.com/ and Centaur. About the only tooling I can recommend to users.
These are great collets! You'll love them. I do. Most we use are 3/8-16, 5/16-18 and 1/4-20. Athough I have a impressive collection of taps well beyond 1".
Hello, Unfortunately I don't think I can be much help. Each machine does this a little differently. I would recommend checking the manual for your specific machine. It should detail how to calculate and set the values needed. Thanks
Great explanation. I now fully understand the "additional fee" to enable rigid tapping.
The "CAT" in CAT40 stands for Caterpillar Inc. as opposed to Category 40. CAT designed the flange of the taper (or more specifically the format of the toolholder) to work more effectively with Automatic tool changers hence the credit for the design goes to them. Not trying to sound rude just clarifying ;-)
No worries, others have corrected that as well.
Can you go into detail about the NAZ you speak of for uploading programs, keep up the great work
I cannot agree more with the others who praised this video. Superb job, guys! The level of detail, comprehensive coverage of the matter, clear and coherent presentation - these are just some of the things I liked about this video. Liked and subscribed.
Thank you for the feedback, greatly appreciated.
Really I like your explanation about setting Tool and work offset on Fadal machine
The tap follows the hole . If the hole isn’t straight the tap will break. As you drill the drill gets dull and the drill walks off center and the tap will brake .
Excellent helpful video
Excellent video Tim! This will really help me RT with my FADAL.
Thank You
Well done video with great information. Thank you!
very clear concise explanation
Very good explanation! Thanks a lot !
Exceptional video....subsribed and hit the bell..need much more in depth info on the code and all other pertinant information...
I do hope you are well paid and nurtured for this work.
RUclips does not pay at all unless you have a huge amount of views. These videos are made for fun and to help others with a topic that is not common.
so if you have rigid tapping, you already have the necessary card to add a rotary table?
Im looking to get a 15xt as a first machine and all your videos have been really helpful
Great video. 👌Thanks for the explanation and demonstration!!! Subscribed
Thank you
InstaBlaster
Nice video.
LinuxCNC has rigid tapping built in, you need an ABZ encoder and a way to control your motor
sir we have thread wash issue in rigid tapping when we press emergency of sudden power cut. What is the cause for this. Z axis drop observed 30-40 micron during pressing emergency.
Hey Tim, watching this in 2018!
Just wondering, you only work with Fadal? Don't you work with more generic controlers, like fanuc for example? At least here in Portugal it is the mostly well knownd controler, and I was watching this video trying to see an example of a working stable G code program for rigid tapping, but your G codes are all very new to me.
As you said in the video, all the controlers have very specific G coding on Rigid Taping, so after that i knew it was not going to work, so i grabed my manual and started reading haha.
Quick question on the feedback coder, in my case, feedback encoder.
I make retrofittings on Cnc Machine-Tools, and i usualy work with 1024 impulse encoders for the spindle feedback.
On rigid taping, can i consider this: more impulses -> more acuracy on each rotation -> better control on the syncronization between Z and Spindle Speed? Or 1024 is far more than enough to make every kind of threading?
Thanks for the video, sub'd instantly after this one.
Thanks for the sub! I only have a Fadal in my shop, so that is all I can film at this time.
Fadal uses a 1000 count encoder on the spindle and it works good. More resolution can't hurt as long as your controller can measure the higher frequencies. Controlling better depends on if your controller can use the finer resolution and faster update rate to better sync with.
Thanks man, we have 3 Fadals (VMC 15, 40 and 4020). I always worry about breaking the tap. Any useful info/reference to learn more about this?
There are some calibration parameters to keep the Z and spindle in sync. There are also tap holders that have a tiny amount of flex to them for rigid tapping but I have never needed them.
I had a technician replace my spindle drive inverter on my 4020 a while ago. He never tuned it for rigid tapping. He said that I needed a new motor before he could fine tune it. The motor bearings have some miles on them, but they are fine. Is it possible to make a video explaining how to tune a machine for rigid tapping?
Yes, I just went through this on my machine, I just have not had time to make videos in a while
@@AtManUnlimitedMachining I understand. I could try it using the method in the manual. I'm just not very confident with it.
After a G53 Z0. my machine will not raise the z axis to machine coordinate 0 position. Do I need to change a parameter? Otherwise I'm totally new to CNC and your vids got me going. Thanks again!
When using G53 it must be the only G code on that line.
Hi Tim , Great videos. could you make one on how you changed the post for a format 2 Fadal post. I also run a Fadal on format 2 and am starting to use Fusion as my programming system.It would be greatly appreciated
For the Tapping cycles
Yes, I have been asked before to make a rigid tapping video. I have been holding off because it really touched a lot of code because there are some preparatory statements and switches. Some people have also asked for a difference between format 1 and 2. I will make those shortly before we jump into motors and controls.
Did you have to manually change the tapping program? After you post G-Code with the fadal post processor in Fusion, do you modify the G-Code to make the Rigid Tapping feature work? Every time I have tried to "rigid tap" on my Fadal (EMC which has Rigid Tapping) I broke a tap! Could you explain what I need to change in my program after creating g-code? Is there a way to change the Post Processing so that you don't have to modify your G-Code every single time?
The fadal post in fusion does not use the rigid tapping commands because those are optional on most machines. I modified my post to use the rigid tapping routines for my machine. That mod is a little involved as it changes a few sections of the post to get it to follow the fadal format.
Hi Tim, great job on your videos. very clear and concise. keep it up and the subscribers will come. I recently went through the personal cnc or vmc exercise. ended up with a nice older front turret type machine. I have been uploading video on it and some of the parts I make, but don't even come close to your quality. not to mention 1 subscrber. check mine out if you like. rigid tapping was one of the reasons I went vmc. other main reason was it was 5 g's cheaper all said and done. what are you using to film and edit?
Hello gtech, thank you for the comments. I found with you tube if you want to even give it a go you should setup a channel and do all the misc stuff. Setup a banner, user pic, about page, it is a lot more work then some may think. I do a lot of presenting and meetings as my day job, I also teach classes in software programming. That helps with the speaking and message part, but connecting with the camera was a big challenge for me. Talking to a little black box with a red light by my self seems silly. I think I'm getting a little better. I'm currently not expecting or getting any money from the videos, so I'm not putting any real money into them. I mainly shoot with my Sony HDR-CX550 on a tripod. Then a GoPro 1080 on a Noga holder in the machine. It was $100 camera, cheapest thing in the machine in case I destroy it. I also have a Nikon D800 if I really want to get fancy. For editing software I"m just using some free shareware, VSDC by Flash Integro. It does a decent job. If the channel takes off I will invest in some higher end software, but for now I'm putting in what I expect to get out. I really started the channel to help people who are interested in getting a used VMC and to get some exposure for my company, possible some machining jobs. Thanks for the interest and keep up the good work.
So quick question.
I noticed that the offset callouts are in Format 1 but the comments in the preamble say "Format 2"
I the machine seems to be running in Format 1, have you tried to tap in Format 2 and if so what changes to the code are needed?
I just picked up a 4020HT and am super excited to clean it up and start running parts!
Not sure what your seeing for call outs? I have always run my machine in Format 2 mode.
Hmmmmm... I guess I just don't know enough about the Fadal control yet.
I was looking through your program and it seemed like it was using "the E" fixture offsets which I thought was Format 1 instead of the "G54" fixture offsets which I thought was part of Format 2
I have been watching all of your videos and have to say excellent job sir!
Thank you, you can use the E offsets or the G code offsets in both formats. The G code offsets are very limited in quantity. Using the E offsets you can have up to 48 I believe.
Oh I see, thanks!
I am very excited to see your review of the Calmotion Control. Once this thing pays it self off that's the next thing that I am looking to put in it.
I'm working on it, been busy making parts with it, and I am enjoying it for sure.
about to use a spiral flute tap for the first time. is there a recommendation other than standard pre drill sizes? Do spiral flute taps require different pre-dril size?
Hello Pete, Spiral flute or spiral point taps don't need anything special. The drill size dictates the amount of thread engagement and thus how hard it is on the tap. Typically on aluminum I use a 75% engagement and on steels and hard materials I use about a 55% engagement. As always be sure to do the stress calculations for your specific case to figure out what thread engagement your application requires. And never use a hand tap for rigid tapping, it wont clear the chips correctly and most likely fail.
Did that.. broke my hand tap after 3 parts... Thanks for confirming that no special pre drill is required.
At least it lasted 3! ;)
If you are tapping through holes get spiral point taps, they will push the chips out the bottom of the hole rather then bring them up through the threads. Better chip evacuation.
yea! my Harbor freight tap set is now missing it's 3mmx.5.. Only the best for this guy..
It didn't help that the blind hole ended up against my soft jaw either. No place for the chips to go. Editing the jaws for clearance.
LOL Harbor Freight hand tap for Rigid tapping in a CNC, that is a new one!
At least your only out what, about a cent? Oh, plus the cost of the part or time to burn the tap out ;)
Just kidding Pete :)
Accuracy of your servos play a big part of rigid tapping. Not every machine can use this process
Very true, Fadal has a calibration to sync the Z rotation with the Z movement. It is not just the servos but also the response of the spindle as well.
Hi Tim, my fusion 360's post processor produces fadal generic only, where am able to download format 2.cps?
Thanks.
Hello againWell...... You can't, watched that video closely there!The Fadal post processor that ships with Fusion does not work with Rigid tapping unfortunately.I wrote that post processor myself and had to modify a fair amount to get rigid tapping to work correctly. I also modified it to follow some of my standard stuff I came up with to make life a little easier.Does your machine have the rigid tapping option?
Tim, no it doesn't, TRM has whatever the rest of fadal have but rigid tapping, but it does have format 2 which is my concern. I have bunch of fanuc programs that I am thinking to use them in the format 2 . I also have inventor hsm pro 2016 along side with fusion 360 one year trial version but neither have fadal format 2.cps. can you please educate me how to get format2 post.
Thanks
Ah, ok. The format setting, IE 1 or 2 just controls how the machine interprets G code. I started with the standard Fadal post from Fusion and I think it worked correctly in format 2, though I did not run it long before getting my hands in there. Format 1 is basically Fadal's take on how they thought G code should be run, Format 2 is how the rest of the world uses G code, my opinion of interpretation. I think Fanuc formatted code will run on Format 2 for the most part. The nice thing, if there is no tool in the spindle and nothing on the table it is impossible to crash these machines. This is because the spindle can not go low enough to hit the table. This way you can dry run your code and see how it behaves. This is how I learned the "Fadal" way they want to see the code. Write a test program and watch it run, see if it does what you expect. I recommend downloading the manuals if you don't have them from here. www.flintmachine.com/products-fadal-technical-manuals.html Read section 21 of the user manual. This lists the behavior differences between the formats. The biggest one was how offsets get applied, format 1 moves to the offset, format 2 does not move until you call a move function later in the code. Hope that helps, Tim
Hello Tim,
Thanks for the tips and the information.You are doing awesome work and I wish you and people like you never quit. One of important part of your video is your clear voice! Looking forward to watch your upcoming video
Thanks again
Shem
Thank you for the kind words. Don't have a lot of viewers currently, but the few we have we are helping so it makes it worth it!
I use ER tap collets.
Which ones are you using if I may ask? I have only gone up to 3/8" in aluminum but I have only been using standard collet holders. So far so good.
Tim, www.techniksusa.com/metal/cnatcrtc.htm
LOL thanks man! I use Techniks stuff as well, I didn't even know they made those. Going to need to order me some of those. The square drive in the back ensures the tap wont spin, I like it!
I almost exclusively use SYIL (Techniks). Our other collets are Command www.commandtool.com/
and Centaur. About the only tooling I can recommend to users.
These are great collets! You'll love them. I do. Most we use are 3/8-16, 5/16-18 and 1/4-20. Athough I have a impressive collection of taps well beyond 1".
dear friend, how to calculate rigit tapping M4 from M16 speed and feed rate pls teach me.
my program following
Example: M12
------------------------
M29 250
G98 G84 Z-20.0 P500 F250 K0 ;
G80;
M09 ;
M30;
Hello, Unfortunately I don't think I can be much help. Each machine does this a little differently. I would recommend checking the manual for your specific machine. It should detail how to calculate and set the values needed. Thanks
Cool shirt, from my phone it says Ass-man