How Ion Propulsion, Lifters and Ionocrafts Work
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- How ion propulsion in lifters, my Star Trek Enterprise model and other ionocrafts work, basically how ion wind works in these types of devices. This shows how the electric field between a sharp object connected to a smooth object cause movement in the direction of the sharp object and an ion wind in the opposite direction. To create this electric field I use my homemade high voltage power supply.
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See also:
Star Trek Enterprise Model with Ion Propulsion added
• Star Trek Enterprise M...
How to Make/Build a Lifter or Ionocraft
• How to Make/Build a Li...
How to Make Piezoelectric Crystal Speaker
• How to Make Piezoelect...
And more...
How to Make 30kV High Voltage DC Power Supply
• How to Make 30kV High ...
Make Ionocraft/Ion Wind Spinning Disks
• Make Ionocraft/Ion Win...
Lifter Voltage/Current and Smoke/Aiflow Test Measurements
• Lifter Voltage/Current...
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3D drawing and animation done using Blender 2.63.
Music used throughout:
Bicycle Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Great explanation and great animations! Your videos just keep getting better and better! Nice work!
Thanks! The animations are a lot of fun to do.
InstaBlaster
If you add a dielectric material with very high dielectric constant and strength like that of barium titanate or calcium copper titanate between positive and negative terminals, lifters will start working in vacuum chamber. Thomas Townsend Brown used dielectric materials with his biefeld vacuum experiments. Mainstream science and most youtube videos are doing it wrong. Without proper dielectric material, its nothing more than inefficient ion propulsion. Also the shape of the lifter needs to be pyramid shape so the positive copper terminal at top is smaller than negative aluminum terminal at the bottom, with dielectric material between so electricity has to completely flow through the dielectric material. High voltage applied also need to be more than 150kv as the strong electric field begins to reduce the weight of the lifter so there is no reason to make lifter lightweight. Weight after all is not an inherent property of mass since you are weightless in space and also when falling towards the earth at 9.8 m/s2.
B2 spirit bomber has that technology
So the big question is, can an ion lifter produce enough lift to carry its own high voltage power supply, some passengers, a bathroom, a kitchen, and a living room?
Hsfh Fejtpo you would have to make one. I was thinking of using solar panels, batteries, and a custom transformer.
They use them in space on satellites with a liquified gas where gravity isnt a factor.
The military does
Sure. Just scale it up.
Yes. If you could produce enough power... We'll probably have to wait for fusion.
Wondering how I my ion propelled Enterprise worked? Or how a lifter or other ionocraft works? All is revealed in this new video. Enjoy!
why do you tie your lifter? infact almost all the ionocraft videos ive seen, the lifter has been taped/tied to the ground quite closely. why not just let it fly straight up then lower the voltage and get it down ?
EpicBunty
The three sides of a lifter produce varying thrust in different amounts. Since there's no independent control for each side, if the lifter weren't tied down then it would fly erratically all over the place, within the limits of the feed wires. So the thrust is turned up such that the threads are all being pulled tightly. That means that two sides are thrusting more than they need to be and the third side is thrusting just enough to keep the threads on that side tight.
i thought so!
how erratic is it ? I'm sure with a little bit of experimenting and tinkering you can make a model which flies stably.. right? or have you not played around enough ?
EpicBunty
It can be very erratic. I've played around a lot because you often have to do that just to get it so that all sides are thrusting enough just to get off the ground. It appears as though the more sides you have, the more stable you can get it. I guess many more sides averages out the differences in different areas. So the lifters made up of many triangles tend to be more stable. But I've still never seen anyone be able to remove the threads.
wow! thanks for the info.
If you ever do end up finding a video of a stable lifter, mind sending me a link ?
Thanks for all of your ultra-high-quality videos--it is rare to find someone who has the gift of true teaching (which requires core knowledge of the subject). This allows others with the potential to excel quickly. After studying your "how ion propulsion works" video, I would like to ask your opinion on something. I have the requirement to set up TWO independent spark gaps--one, let's say points north-south, and the other east-west. They are at about the same level and will intersect each other, however, their high voltage power supply's are 100% isolated capacitors, no common grounds, etc. I would like to ensure that if the two arcs fire simultaneously that no electrical connection or current path will be present--sort of like light or sound,i.e once passed the "region of crossing" it is as if neither was aware the other existed!! Any ideas on this construction?
Thanks MUCH,
--dalE
+dale nassar Unfortunately sparks are not like light. If I understand you correctly, I don't see how this can work. Each sphere will spark to the one closest to it that is at the opposite polarity.
This is a great explanation. Read about lifters in a visual novel recently that didn't really give an explanation as to how it worked or even what it is. This fills that gap perfectly.
يجب أن يتحد المخترعون وكل من ساهم في تطوير تقنية تكاثر أيونات البلازما الأيونية لتطوير هذا المستقبل لتقنية البلازما الأيونية لإنقاذ العالم من الاحتباس الحراري وتلوث الهواء والضوضاء التي تدمر العالم!
great explanation
Thanks.
Is that how real UFO works ? Thank you shearing but can you create without those cord for our daily use ?
No, a UFO can fly through space which is a vacume, these ion propulsion systems need air to work
Great presentation.. Faulty conclusions however, can you explain how it still works in a vacuum with NO AIR?? Your theory doesn't hold a source charge to to the proverbial candle flame. Sorry I'm not buying that theory.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the presentation despite finding the content faulty. My answer to your question is that the vacuums used weren't perfect vacuums. All footage I've seen of lifters and other devices of this sort tested in vacuum chambers moved much, much more slowly, which would be in keeping with the reduced amount of air. But of course, not having done vacuum experiments I can't say that that was the cause with as much confidence as for lifters in air. My smoke tests clearly show a large amount of powerful air flow. In my "Lifter Voltage/Current and Smoke/Airflow Test Measurements" video ruclips.net/video/LOGAaObsN4g/видео.html at 3:21 you can even see a piece of burning incense being strongly blown down and away. However, unlike many others I do keep hope that there may be some electrical way to interact with the quantum vacuum to produce motion.
RimstarOrg
Hi, the answer to why it still kind of works in a vacuum is because as you said there is still a trace of air left and the ions now can move much faster because of low air density and transfer their momentum onto the the neutral gas molecules which then can also recoil much faster giving a higher "thrust" per gram of neutral gas. ie in normal atmosphere ions move slowly but impinge on very large number of neutral gas molecules . In vacuum ions move very fast but impinge on much smaller number of neutral gas molecules.
It is NOT ion propulsion. Electrogravitics works in a vacuum, where no atoms are available to convert into ions.
Earlier on I decided I wanted to learn exactly how ion propulsion works. Thanks for uploading this
You're welcome. Glad to hear it was timely.
How much volts of electricity is needed? And how to prevent any electric hazard ??
For the lifter, I needed around 25,000 volts. My ammeter wasn't in the correct range so I couldn't measure the current but it's a relatively high current. You can see me measuring in this video here ruclips.net/video/LOGAaObsN4g/видео.html . Regarding safety, see near the end of my how-to-make a lifter video where I show the use of discharging the power supply and lifter after turning it off ruclips.net/video/vzZy1Aqleno/видео.html . There are of course safety precautions to take while it's flying, like staying away from it.
@@RimstarOrg Thanks a lot gentleman! 😊
Great explanation and also great to see you are still working with these devices. I see you still have my old PDFs on your site :) If you want to collaborate on making a stronger force, let me know and we can see if we can come up with some ideas.
Leon Tribe Thanks. Great hearing from you again. From what I can tell from analytics, your PDFs still get some looking over each month. I'm not really working on these devices anymore, I'm more showing them to people who've never seen them before.
This would be a viable propulsion system if we had a way of storing the electricity onboard the aircraft
We may. The energy requirement isn't that intense, only the voltage is high. Is you can get a decent enough TWR to hold something akin to a boost converter or rectifier, you may be able to.
Here there is a way , and a very simple way ruclips.net/video/ax4Es1wIQkY/видео.html
Does the geometric proportions and/or elemental property, structure and state have an influence?
What about the charge applied, does Voltage and frequency have a role? ie; 220V, 113mHz Poloyphase charge used to create a resonant signal sympathetic to that of the atmospheric gas being targeted? Or is the regular form of AC applied at, or above relevant thresholds adequate? I feel as though we are still creating crude and horribly inefficient proof of concepts.
Am thinking a crystalline metal such as bismuth (or what ever suits the particular nature of energy transfer) is a good starting point, furthered by accurate geometrical properties.
Further advancement from;
Accurate wave form adaptation to facilitate a reversible, self amplification characteristic to be implemented.
Thrust multiplication of thrust by application of force and/or wave forms -ultrasonic, microwave / alfven waves. Then refinement of such incorporations as indicative by environment, not mathematical guesswork.
And so on...
In 100 years these engines could advance in o the point that our best working models look no better than the wright brothers flight.
So this is possible to do on a dc circuit. Are there any formulas available gor this kind of device?
This circuit is DC. However, it's high voltage DC. As for formulas, there are but I don't have any off-hand. I know Peek's law is often used en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peek%27s_law.
A wonderful, compelling explanation. Well done!
Does this require air to work？ Can it work in outer space where there is no atmosphere? Why don't they make aircraft using this?
+PRepublicOfChina It requires a gas of some kind to work. So in space the spaceships need to carry along their own gas, usually xenon gas. They don't use it for aircraft because the thrust is very small. It's used by some spacecraft because if you keep it running for a long time then you gradually build up speed.
Given that the propulsion is reliant on pushing air molecules, this device should not move in vacuum, correct?
Correct, or at least not using ion propulsion. Other things like off-gassing, ejecting electrons, ejection of matter due to sparks, and attraction to the vacuum chamber parts can cause it to move, though if it does, it moves much more slowly.
Ion propulsion is used in the vacuum and zero gravity of space though. The Dawn spacecraft currently orbiting the asteroid Ceres used an ion thruster to get there. It carried along Xenon gas for the propellant.
Great video! Thanks for explaining this, but I'm really curious how switching the polarity works. Would electrons be pushed towards the smooth end and cause ionic wind?
Brainscrawler Roughly speaking, yes. See starting here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge#Mechanism_of_corona_discharge for more about the differences between the positive and negative coronas.
I find this fascinating. I believe that the wheel is holding us back. We seem to be at a standstill. Keep at it I believe you are on to something very big maybe not in my life time I am 70. But wouldn't be amazing if this teck worked incredibly well in the waitress state of space
That reminds me to change my DILITHIUM CRYSTALS. Thanks.
In 2003 Thomas Bader and Chris Farzi worked together to examine the Biefeld-Brown effect by first reproducing the effect and reviewing the history through patents held by Brown. Several theories were tested and proposed, with quick theoretical calculations to determine whether the theory was sufficient to provide the force necessary for the thrust noticed by operating ionocraft. A conclusion is reached that the Ionic wind force is too small is reached by assuming that the particles being propelled are electrons. This assumption would suggest that a small force would be noticed in a vacuum since the electrons could come from the emitter on the ionocraft. Using the following two equations:
1/2mv^2 =qV
where m is the mass of the moving particle, v is the velocity of that particle, q is the charge on the particle, and V is the voltage across the asymmetric capacitor. This is the kinetic energy of the particles being moved around by the electric field.
F=mv*i/q
Assuming collisions are completely elastic the change in momentum is calculated as above. The variables are the same as before with I being the current flowing across the capacitor. This also assumes that none of the particles collide with the collector.
Combining these equations they conclude that the force is 5 orders of magnitude too small to be the cause.
Hi Rimstar. Attempted ionic lifter but NO lift.. just some hissing sound and wind..... I connected to my high voltage flyback transformer: positive and negative terminals to the lifter.... ( thin copper wire and smooth aluminium side.
What could be the issues???
A flyback transformer outputs AC. A lifter needs either DC or pulsed DC and won't work with AC. My power supply have a voltage multiplier after the flyback transformer. The voltage multiplier both steps up the voltage and converts the AC to DC. I have some additional tips and tricks to getting it to work on my webpage here rimstar.org/sdprop/lifter/lifter.htm in case you modify your power supply.
@@RimstarOrg I got the flyback transformer from an old cathode TV which is the same as a computer monitor right??
Ah, I see. So chances are that your flyback transformer has a built in diode(s) which turns it into DC or pulsed DC. Though there's a slight chance that it doesn't and so you'd be getting AC out but if there was a thick wire coming out of the flyback and going directly up to the TV's cathode ray tube then it probably does have the diode(s). That would be something like my Cube power supply ruclips.net/video/-KFhBVfpfDw/видео.html which does have the diode. I tried that one with a lifter and it didn't lift. My guess is that the voltage was too low. My lifter lifts off at around 25,000 volts ( ruclips.net/video/LOGAaObsN4g/видео.html ) and my Cube power supply's transformers heat up too much when putting out only around 20,000 volts. One of the tips I talk about (the best one) on the webpage I linked to in my previous comment is to try it in the dark and look for the corona between the wire and the foil skirt. If you don't get the corona then your voltage isn't high enough. If you get the corona in only one spot then you're only getting lift at that one spot.
Dude.
Unbelievably well explained.
You're the next Bill Nye ; )
David Hart Nye is a hack
The movie star?
Nye doesn't know shit
Hi there, I am sorry but this new youtube google is playing armageddon with my old mind, so I wonder if you recieved my message about a day ago? regards. k.a
Yup, I got your message. But you pointed out a link to a long document that I'd like to go through more carefully before replying, and it's hard to find time.
Thank you!, thats very fine!. I wondered if my messages went. I cant find where they get to me either, is it possible for you to just send me a tet message ?
leviterande
RUclips gives me an error saying that you've enabled contact lock and no one can PM you unless you add them as a contact. So I can't reply to your PMs. I suggest you go to your youtube account settings, privacy section and turn off "Allow only my contacts to send me messages and share videos".
RimstarOrg thank you a lot. I have no idea how that option got turned on in the first place, I was suspecting that somehow my messeges either didnt come thru or that they couldnt reply to me..
Alien technology
You know NOTHING about the functioning of electrons, protons, neutrons, ions, or cations. GO BACK TO GRADE SCHOOL.
4:35 yes that is what i was thinking ...! 🤔🤔
But in space there's no neutral atoms other then that which exists in the chamber so what for this case ?
?
?
Fine if you've got an EXTREMELY long extension cord providing the power. NOW, what's needed is an "on board" power source that will make the transport device "free" of being connected to anything.
what is the top speed promised from this technique at it's hypothetical perfection lvl? 99.999% light speed?
The explanation is wrong. What gives thrust is the electromagnetic field pushing and pulling (friction) the air around and between the electrode and cathode. If the "free" ions were the thrust source it would work in near vacuum without field collapse. Just by using high vacuum it collapses instantly. The impedance decreases as the pressure decreases and so does lift. At -60kPascals (.4 atm, 1 atm= 14.7 psi = 100 kPascal, 1 psi = 689 kPascals, far from real vacuum) you get no thrust at all but only arching.
El Psy Kongroo
It will not work in a vacuum? Didn't they test lifters in a vacuum in the original Bielfield-Brown experiments? I read the propulsion effect is stronger in a vacuum. Can you please elaborate.
Well you can build a very crude model, but have absolutely NO comprehension of how this technology works... Go read about T.T. Brown’s asymmetrical capacitors. Do you see the relationship between Voltage and lift? What’s the break down voltage of air? This needs to be solid state...
Let's make these into personal craft so that way we don't have to wait for PW/SW/NASA/BPP to manipulate you with it. How have none of you built a full scale model w/better power will baffle me forever. Hurry up already you type-zero troglodytes.
It's witchcraft, work of the devil I tell you. Just kidding great video
Hey
Would This same experiment work in space?
Basically, a hot Air ballon 🎈 replaced with Electricity⚡️.
Seriously? Make one that works. That’s not different that electric theory or quantum mechanics.
The fast-moving ions produce the corona discharge from the point of drag air molecules along to create the electrical windand since the luminous portion of the flame is positively charged maybe
Great video
The secret is the ionic wind check David Hamel 30 year search for magnetic energy.
I would have appreciated a slower delivery which would give my brain more time to process the information before hearing subsequent points.
Think about putting mercury in a donut shaped vacuum and using electricity to spin it. This has less to do with ions and more to do with anti-gravity. Mercury is an anamolous substance and has properties that are still not understood nor exploited. Rotational direction should dictate attraction or repulsion to a gravitational field.
Never able to test due to mercury being difficult to obtain.
Happy hunting.
This explains that aircraft i seen in flight with no wings or noise...square in shape.. power source @ the bottom metallic liquid spheres..??
Great explanation but I have a few questions.
1.) Is the propulsion activated by the positively charged ions that are headed back to the positive source after collision with the neutral atoms?
2.) If the fields were reversed, how will that affect the atoms in order to get the same result?
Thanks.
1) Yes. That collision is what pushes on the electric field that the positive ions are a part of. That's what causes the propulsion.
2) It's too much detail for a comment but if the fields were reversed then the details would be a little different but the effect and the direction of the motion would be the same.
Sorry but that doesnt seem quite right; as in most exampled the thin wire and aluminium have the same charge going through them; and it appears the idea is that more electrons can saturate the aluminium, that in thin pieceo f wire. Also the wire, the lift being achieves doesn't add up...I believe this mechanism was already explain by the main who discovered it as a low pressure zone effect.
Ite not ion wind that causes the ion fkyer to fly ions sometimes colliding together is not making enough wind to lift the flyer let alone with as much fource as it has. Now I have no idea what is making your starwars toy go around but it's not ion wind.
And do to the fact you add sound affects to your toy there most likely is a moter spinning it. Ion air is not strong enough to make so much as a hair move let alone anything else. There is a lot of dishonesty going around when it comes to how the ion flyer works and there are thoes that want you to think it's ion air but it's not and I know these people that say it's air can't be that stupid so thay have to jest be bring dishonest. Most people don't even know how the bumble bee levitates
great thanks✌
มันใช่มันแทบไม่ต้องขยับชิ้นส่วน
Which Trek episide guys? The one that first mentioned Ion propulsion!
We need or fusion or nuclear cells for our hoverboards 🤣🤣🤣
hi if you make this a bigger engine do you get any electrical discharge "lightning bolts" i mean i work on plasma propulsion ideas. one i have is a plasma reactor rocket engine . a magnetron generating plasma from silicon dioxide that gets drawn to a dc magnet, then a cathode ray fires electrons at it to overload the plasma field. a plasma explosion equal to a combustion chamber of a rocket to create thrust. and a plasma turbojet doing the same thing . the pressure from the electrical/plasma explosion for thrust and to spin a turbine to bring in more plasma.
isn't this the biefeld brown effect?? I want to make a lifter around 40ft in radius and able of getting to the speed of light..
This is vergry intergesting we in germany are vergry exiding yeah yeah I,
Couldn't this information we used to break down cancer clusters in the amino acid form finding out of there either negative or positive amino acids and responding accordingly
Only problem is that there is no such thing as an electron...
higher efficiencies seem to occur when the negative is the blunt electrode. This is because sharp ones release electrons to the gasses, creating a source of current loss and giving electrons back to positive ions, neutralizing them once again. Little difference, nonetheless.
But in space there is no any neutral atoms between so how that works ?
The ion propulsion engines used in spacecraft like NASA's Dawn use a xenon gas which they carry with them. The technique used is different than in this video -- they don't rely on sharp vs. smooth electrodes. Without explaining the full technique, one of the electrodes is a wire grid with holes in it and many of the charged particles make it through the holes. To reduce the number that then get pulled back, after the particles have made it through the grid, they spray them with oppositely charged particles to neutralize them.
Nice but, electrons don't exist...
Now explain.
Towards the centre is negitive the out circle would be positive🤪
It is not an ion wind. Make a test in a vakuum. The ion wind hasn't the power/force to lift up a lifter. The ion wind is only a nice effect. Do you know the NASA tests (in 2003 at the NSSTC LEEIF facility)?
It is an ion wind. This lifter would not work in a vacuum because there would be no molecules to create the ions. This lifter uses the molecules in the air to create ions. The ion engines NASA uses in space use xenon as a propellant. But it is still an "ion wind" that provides thrust.
Wrong what you say this is not the real principle that you are overshadowing people. thank you
So it doesn't work on vacum.
So then, no REAL ion drive-powered Enterprise possible in the vacuum of space?
@@origamiswami2275 Nope
That video was so good maybe the best one I seen in sometime, years ago I seen I guy make a big one of them in he's garage ever since then I always wanted to know if that was real, because it looked like magic lol
Best video explanation 👍👍👍👍
Is the electric wind sufficient to lift the lifter ? One thing is to prop the enterprise suspended to a crane and that doesnt move so fast, another thing is to have the sufficient amount of force applied on the lifter to couter his weight ... some mesures ?
Well then... when I was younger, I built a remake of Rimsterorg's ion lifter, but I never knew you needed high voltage. I USED A HALF DEAD 9 VOLT BATTERY!!!
Whats the voltage needed to make this work?
That depends on what you're powering. My lifter required around 25,000V and around 1 milliamp. You can see me measuring it in this video ruclips.net/video/LOGAaObsN4g/видео.html. The sharpness of the point, or points, the smoothness of the smooth electrode, and the distance between the electrodes are the main factors. In the lifter, the sharp point was the thin, bare 30 gauge (AWG) wire.
Can you recommend a cheap power source? Thanks
If it's a lifter you want to fly then no. It needs a fairly powerful high voltage DC power source so it's not cheap (www.amazing1.com/hv-dc-power-supplies.html). You could try making one. Mine is this one rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm but it still needs a lower voltage power supply to feed it. Also, it's hard to find the type of flyback transformer that it uses. It has to be one that doesn't have a built in diode and all the ones these days have built in diodes.
Ok thanks. But if you want to make a Enterprise model thing is the voltage any lower?
Actually, I've never measured the high voltage required for any spinning setup, including the Enterprise model so It's hard to say what voltage or current is needed in those cases. The fact that you can make an Enterprise model spin horizontally like I did but there's no way you'd be able to make it go vertical (too heavy) doesn't mean it's using less power. It may in fact be using more.
I just compared the AC voltage on the VARIAC meter dial and the DC voltage output going to the high voltage power supply at 2 minutes and 11 seconds into the Enterprise video (ruclips.net/video/x5dyIIpnE0Y/видео.html) and the same for flying a lifter at 8 minutes and 35 seconds into my HV power supply video (ruclips.net/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/видео.html) and the Enterprise needed much more: around 13 VDC going to the high voltage power supply versus 8 VDC.
But I used the same power supply in both cases, just giving it more power for the Enterprise.
Note that the voltage may actually be the same, just that the current is higher to produce more ions. That's why I say more power.
I love how you don't really understand how it works. cute.
If you are here is the choice of Steins;Gate
They are nothing really new i made several of them in the 1970s.
Pressure Mediation based in frequency and bandwidth...
No particles involved...
Makes me think of brushed motor to brushless,..then to rail gun,... Inverted to "ion" thruster... (Sympathetic resonant magnetic drive)
Nice video
what about creating a shield and injecting free ions in the direction of travel???
Superconducting magnets with gallium/aluminum/mercury shape changing metals, plasma torroids, and antigravity ferrofluids.
I've no doubt that with right RTOS performing gravimetric calculations of terrestrial topographies that, together, these materials could all be combinrd to prototype antigravity craft using RTOS to navigate over natural terrain, adjusting ionic, thermal, and magnetic output via shaped torroidal bases.
is it fair to simply say to a kid that this tech ejects atoms in near light speed to propel it self?
It has nothing to do with ion propulsion. The powers only allow silly content like this as opposed to real tech.
The fast moving ions produced in the corona discharge oh i see
if you mix the 2 systems and added a Tesla coil receiver on to it hmmm.. it could be wireless man i need a tesla coils to build me a fing space ship have you reviewed his description of propeller-less flight he stated it in public saucer shaped or cigar shape.. funny how we never heard much of tesla till the internet came along and liberated the information's to the either..
strange but im pretty sure he new this was inevitable as-well as the laws that would dictate electromagnetic flight would also be utilized in time.... by the people as to you can not hide the scientific facts forever.. they exist anyone can find.them if they look..
Sir how to make that enterprise model please tell
I show how I added the ion propulsion to the enterprise model in this video ruclips.net/video/x5dyIIpnE0Y/видео.html and then in this video I added the laser ruclips.net/video/VxIEV27AjWQ/видео.html
@@RimstarOrg thanks sir
Love from India 🇮🇳🇮🇳❤️❤️❤️
Soon I aim to become a Scientist at ISRO ❤️❤️❤️
ISRO! Awesome!
@@RimstarOrg thanks sir ❤️
Hope I become a lot intelligent to make my and all countries proud of me just like the world prouds our Indian Scientist Dr.APJ Abdul Kalam
Come on. ion propulsion was known ( to me) since 1968. It was different build. 2 "chicken wire". Sowing needle attach to each point of cross wire ( I build a square one). Soldering the needle was a lot of work. When complete, those 2 were attach to a wooden poles. It was made so I could adjust the distance. High voltage DC ( from tv flyback). Adjust untill you do not see the spark. It does fly, but restricted to the lenght of the power cord. You could make any shape.
The electric field does create propultion. Still air isn't moving. Then it gets ionized and then it is accelerated by the electric field, by F=ma=eE. By Newton's third law this causes craft to be accelerated in the opposite direction. However you gave the the answer why my calculations predicted ridiculous amounts of power required (Gigawatts). I forgot the factor in the fact that charged atoms will bump into each other and you won't lose the ions created in 100ns (or something on that order).
More on the acceleration thing. Situation should be discribed by taking a bowling ball and throwing it (or 10^13 ions in case of the craft).
You just give bad information.
not not how it work it is only half true
Seriously? Make one that works. That’s not different that electric theory or quantum mechanics.
Here's one I made that works ruclips.net/video/HZZmKZJrIW0/видео.html
Good thing I'm a toddler or I'd be bored... I kid! This giant brain we sapiens possess..(well the blessed sapiens with sense to remain humble necessary to learn and thus open our mind paradigm...ehem, excuse me..slight hypergraphia relapse)..our brain moves too fast for reality. Great video and production and explanation
Thaks , its a really helpfull explanation !
Here in 2022, the tech has advanced and there is currently a company working to make a drone powered by ionic propulsion. They’ve had success and are working on tuning the tech to accompany for fine control
So the reason demos showing it does not work in a vacuum chamber are a product of gravity and surface tension?
The reason it often doesn't work in a vacuum chamber is because you don't have the air molecules for producing the ion wind. It does work some in some experimental setups but not as well and could be accounted for by other things like coulomb forces, ejection of electrons, sparks, ... all of which can cause the tiny motions you see in those experiments.
very very very didactic!!! thank you!!!
Hi! Great job!
I have a question. It's about the part at 5:54
If the negative is connect with the sharp object, you said there are some diffences what happens. What are the differences?
Thanks
And Great Job!
excristao I can't go through all the details in a comment but it starts near the sharp object again since that's where the electric field is strongest, except electrons are stripped off the atoms in the air and repelled instead of attracted. A full description can be found here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge#Mechanism_of_corona_discharge
RimstarOrg
When the sharp is positively charged then positive ions are repelled and cause de air go down or something like this. But when the electrons are repelled insted, the air go down too?
excristao Yes, the electrons collide with other molecules on the way down and ultimately cause air molecules to go down too.
RimstarOrg
Thanx.
Great videos and support.
A week ago I saw your videos about ion propulsion. On monday I shared with my students :)
Replication tech, if protons ions etc can move like this, then this proves this type of movement is possible. And if it's possible for one to do .it, the rest can as well in the right conditions. But it's possible.Hail science!
P.s: ..,Don't try this at home!
What are your thought on in atmosphere propulsion. It clearly works on a small scale but given an adequate power supply would it be possible for say small air craft?
A rough number is that there's a voltage of 100 volts for every meter of height through the atmosphere. And that varies depending on all sorts of things: nearby objects, humidity, air density, wind, ... So you'd need a tall aircraft to get the voltage. Then there's the question of how much charge is in the air, which also varies. That's extremely small. From Feynman's Lectures, volume II, 9-2, the current density (charge moving under the influence of that voltage) is around 10 micro micro amps crossing each square meter parallel to the earth. So I'd say it wouldn't work for a small aircraft.
Amazing video.
The action Lab made a video about ion propulsion and I wanted to know more, so here I am :)
Coanda effect applicable to ionic wind?
The Coanda effect is an effect produced by air moving over a curved surface. Ion wind can produce the Coanda effect just like a propeller or jet can, by moving air over a curved surface. You can see that in my video about creating ion wind for a Star Trek Enterprise model. See three minutes into this video ruclips.net/video/x5dyIIpnE0Y/видео.html
@@RimstarOrg I should've been clearer, I meant would a stream of electrons be affected by coanda?
Oh, interesting question. If you flow a stream of electrons over a curved object, would it affect the flow? I'm not sure. The strength of the flow might play a part, a stronger flow would be less affected since the momentum of the electrons would keep them moving. If there's a stream of electrons then that usually means there's something attracting them so the strength of that attraction (electric field strength) would play a part. If it's in a vacuum then it won't have any air flow to affect it. The electrons might cause molecules in the nearby surface to form dipoles and the dipoles would then attract the electrons. Lots to think about... no certain answer though.