No doubt you are much more knowledgeable than I am, and most likely also, you have a lot more practice at doing it than I do. Having said that however, I can't see how that would work. I have the same issue in my home, and looking for solutions for over one year, carefully studying the several options available to repair the issue. Your method seems to be the most difficult one, involving lots of measuring, materials and equipment, even if you say it would only take a level and some screws. My question is.... Why would you lay additional wood pieces to level the floor, creating yet another space in between board, where eventually creatures are going to craw in, and make a home in your home? Would it not be easier, if having leveled the floor with screws, you were to just pour some self leveling cement, and use the screws as a guide to achieve optimal result? That is what I have been considering but, the only reason I have not done it yet, is because I can't seem to find out which material to use, to prevent the liquid cement from running through the gaps I have in the current wood floor. Any ideas? I would appreciate your opinion, being that you seem so knowledgeable about the subject. Thank you.
Hi Mario. Welcome to the channel. I've found this floor leveling method works quite effectively. There are several ways to level a floor but I feel this was the best way to do my old floors. I don't believe it is very difficult. Leveling the screws is probably the most technical part of the process. There are really only four tools you need: a level, a tape measure, a drill and a saw. A complete list of recommended tools are in the video description. The materials involved are screws, sheets of t&g decking, vapor barrier and studs to rip down as sleepers. The sleepers will create a bit of an airspace over the old floor where you are raising the surface to create a level space. My approach to solving the issues with keeping basement odors, air and critters away was to lay down a vapor barrier over my sleepers and under my new decking. This is all explained in part 2 which you can watch here: ruclips.net/video/tOANffNqoDA/видео.html I leveled my upstairs as well. This video: ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html shows another look at the floor leveling process which might be worth watching to get a wider view of the process. The reason I did not go with a self-leveling cement is for a few reasons. First, as you mention, there is the issue of it leaking through the floor which needs to be dealt with. Second, in some areas of the floor, I was making up to over 2 inches of vertical distance to get a level plane. This is a lot of material to pour which would add a lot of weight to the system as well as cost to the project. Third, I've never personally used self-leveling cement so I felt more comfortable with wood. Fourth, since the floors are wood and have a great deal of "bounce" and flex to them (compared to a slab floor), I fear that cement would tend to crack excessively and break up over time causing a lot of other issues down the road. Fifth, adding an overlay wood system mechanically ties into the old system (via screws) thereby making the new floor integral with the old floor thus increasing the overall rigidity and strength of the entire floor system. I hope this discussion assists you in your project and I appreciate you inquiring. Good luck in your renovation and thanks so much for watching.
@@RundownReborn Thank you so much for taking the time to explain in such detail your point of view, and the reasons to your method. I have given the weight of leveling cement a great deal of importance when considering on how to proceed. It is of great concern to me, considering that my craw space is difficult to access (very little space to actually even to craw into it), and gain access to the back of the house. I have plenty of space in the front but, the back is hard to access, and I have actually spent several hours in the past couple years digging with a shovel and bucket. Terrible work to someone my age (68 years old), 6'3" tall, and weighing over 180 lb. It is hard for me but, I have accomplished quite a bit, enough that I am now actually able to craw in, and actually added some support to some of the sagging floor joists. Simply put, this is the house I wish to live in until the day I die. I love my home, and the area where it is located in but, I have to consider that I am also getting old, and with each passing year it gets more and more difficult to accomplish the tasks I set or plan on tackling. I am getting old. I am considering just stopping, and accessing the issue from what may, at first, seem to be the a more difficult angle, which is to say, from above, as you are doing or did on the video above. First, I have considered that it might actually be easier to me to dig the craw space from above, set some additional support columns and level it, making laying of a new floor much easier and simpler. It is my opinion that if I open the floor, and level and add additional support beans to the existing structure, the rest of the process would be much faster and easier to accomplish. I live alone, and don't have any relatives such as a son or anyone else who could help me. Paying someone to do it, is expensive, and honestly, I don't have the means so.... I have to measure twice, and sometimes more often, and cut only once. Once again, thank you for your expert advice. I do appreciate it greatly. Wishing you the very best, Always. Mario.
@Jesus My Savior Hello. How are you? I hope all is well. To be perfectly honest, I have not started it yet. I am still searching for options. It is not something I need to do immediately so, I am still working from under the house, trying to lift all that I can by myself. It is hard awful work but, I don't have anything else to do at this time. So, I am taking my time. A little bit everyday, and trying not to kill myself in the process...lol I am getting there, little by little. But so far so good. Everything I have done, has worked out. I am using hydraulic jacks, cement blocks and 4 x 4's. It is going but, by myself, it is a slow process. I don't want to cause any damage. It would be great to have some help, someone younger, thinner, and more flexible to get to some of the hard spot but, when I am working on a spot where I cannot easily fit in, I just dig the dirt out, until I can fit. Eventually, what I think I will be able to do, it have it level to such a degree where the leveling needed will be minimal, and I will then use some self-leveling cement, and not run the risk of adding too much weight to the existing support system in place. Faith, Hope, and Trust. With the help of God, everything will end up working for the best. Good luck with your project. Take your time, take your phone with you if you need to call for help, and watch out for little creatures crawling around. I think I got bitten by a spider once, not really sure, other than the fact that something down there bit me. It will all work out.
@Mario If you wanted to, you could fill in the spaces between the runner strips he installed, and then use the runners as the level surface for a screed - you could screed the filler material - mortar or whatever - by dragging a long screed board across the runners to make the surface of the mortar flush with the leveling-runner strips. But there is a lot of volume of material - it would not be cheap! He mentioned 1 1/2" of depth to fill in on the low side of the room. Another option would be foam sheets cut to size. But one thing you have to realize, the issue with varmints etc. never really goes away with this type of older construction home - it probably has a large crawl space underneath. As long as the moisture barrier is installed that he described, you can rest easy, because the floor has more than one layer of building material and flooring. There's no way any pest control issue will be more of a factor than the crawl space under the house.
I bought an 86 year old house and gutted it to the studs. The floors were a mess, they were so uneven in every way and every spot. I had no idea what to do or how to fix it. My contractor messed me over and I was left to try and figure it out on my own. I have no carpentry skills whatsoever so I took to youtube and you were the first video I had found. It took me 5 weeks but my floor is 100% level and secure with your method. Thank you so much for sharing this!
Your Sir, are a Miracle for me............I'm a single 65 year young (LOL) woman...........and have been beat'n my head against the wall, trying to figure out how to level an ajoining floor to a level one. Opening up an entry in 2 directions, I was left with this problem...........all I needed was the "screw demonstration" I knew I'd have to do just what you did with the rip'n of the boards to make it level. Thank you so much............this was definately a God send!!
What a beautifully done ruclips.net/user/postUgkxYGamVaHfdHiPlAQaLa7zkwR02OKpGYDU ! The instructions and the photographs are brilliant. It is thorough and genuinely informative. Ryan got another winner! No one does it better!
I'm a hardwood sander and refinisher, and I'm just looking at videos that pertain to fixing and repairing floors and I came across your video, I admire your "do it yourself" video here, my first thought was that you had a table saw or at least a circular saw to rip the 2x4 sleepers, when you showed the saw (at 5 amps LOL), I just had to laugh, because I don't like any saw to rip wood under 13amps LOL, in my trade I'm a power tool for the job type of guy, for repairs and sanding and refinishing, but I have nothing negative to say, just love...and I also subscribed and thumbed up
So glad to have you join the channel. I try not to introduce expensive or unique tools. I try to use the basic tools. Not everyone has a table saw. I just purchased mine recently. I didn't have one during this video. Plus - a table saw does too straight of a cut and the sleepers tend to have a shifting line that you must follow. The saw I used was the cheapest one I could find. It got the job done - slowly. :) It was much better than the jigsaw I was using at the beginning. :)) I have a large heavy powered worm drive framing saw but it was too much saw for this job I felt.
@@RundownReborn Thanks for the reply back, also with practice one can learn to cut on angles with the table saw without using the guide, but I hear you and thanks for the video, I'm just picking up bits and pieces of knowledge here and there on youtube, thanks
Genius!! I need to put in some sister joists to sloping old joists so I am doing something different but am so glad I watched this since I can now get the right levels with this technique. Thank you so much!
I had to do the same in my old house for a 20x20 space. Very time consuming! I like your screw method - I followed the same principle but use a laser level instead. Mounted the laser on the opposite side of the room from my highest point and worked my way towards the laser, marking all my sleepers and cutting them and placing them as I went. The end result is great - only folks who did this know how much work it really takes to do this. Fantastic job in your place and great video!!
Great story. I find it takes a couple of hours to set the screws in a room. Then a few hours to install the sleepers. The next day, I lay down the sheets. A 2 day effort for a room on your own. Probably one day if you have a helper.
easy to follow explanations and tricks to realize a leveled floor like a pro thank you very much to share your knowledge with the public you are certainly helping.
You, Sir, are a genius. I was gonna tear up the whole floor, then sister the joists with an angled board to level, but had no idea how to achieve the job. Thanks.
Glad to hear the video helped. I would only recommend sistering joists if the joists themselves are rotton or sagging. If they sag in the middle but not at the ends, this is called "deflection" which means they aren't doing the job effectively and are structurally weak. If they are straight but sloped - this means the foundation has settled some (causing the unevenness in the floor above) - suggesting that the joist is still strong. Thanks for watching!
@@RundownReborn I would only add that a sagging joist under no load at the time of measurement is suffering from long term wood creep, not deflection under load. Wood creep does stem from deflection under load, but a joist that has a permanent sag after the load is removed is suffering solely from wood creep. Also, floors that have a uniform, sloped tilt can be suffering from rotted or cracked let-ins, rotted sills, settled foundations or piers, older water damage, or even termite damage. It's always worth it to check conditions at the joist ends, because sometimes it's just better to rebuild it all.
Your method worked well to level the floor in my 8' x 12' kitchen. The process was time consuming but relatively easy. Measure 3X, cut 1X is my new mantra.
you remind me of myself, im currently gutting an entire 3 family house with my gf, and its these types of problems we are facing. thanks for the channel! glad to see the inspiration :)
Thank you so much! this worked out so well for me in a 350sft room. using a track saw and a laser level made it so much easier for me. before doing this using your method, i tackled the first two second floor rooms by pulling out the old nailed down original hardwood floors and then running shims directly on top of the old and unstraight joist then adding new OSB and 3/4" hardwood. I braced the joists with blocking too. The house is from 1900. was remodeled but for some reason leveling was not a priority for them (im sure it has to do with cost to jack things up). this time around i still braced the joists in the 350sft room but i didnt pull out the old floor. put the sleepers right on top. then osb and 3/4 hardwood to flush with the previously installed hardwood. my only concern is that the 350sft room now has an additional 5 PSF. not sure how detrimental that might be. Im a chemEngr by training. no structural engr expertise. one side of the floor is supported by a 5.5" wide by 14" depth LVL beam with a 15foot span. every research ive done says im good. whats your thoughts? thank you for this astute approach to solving this problem. subscribed!
Awesome! So glad to hear the video was helpful! Regarding loads… How much do you weigh? Stand still in a 1 square foot spot in the center of the floor. Now bounce up and down. Did the floor deflect or fail? Probably not. I’m sure you weigh much more than 5 lbs. 😁 Thanks for sharing your experience!!!
I like how you are using the screws to achieve level. I might take the underlayment off of my rafters and use this method directly on the too of the rafters. I want to install 3/4" tongue and groove wood flooring and I don't want to raise the finished floor level another 1.5" + level offset above the existing surrounding floors. Still, it is all a lot of work! Thanks for the ideas!
Thank you! This is a great educational video!!! I’ve been contemplating trying to level an upstairs bedroom floor for 6 years:). Now I understand much better
Good job guy. ( im doing mine right now. Using a lot of both your ideas put together with some of my own from experience. I got a lot of nice tip from this. Thanx. Mike
Fantastic video. I have a concrete floor with the same problem and don’t want to use self-levelling goop. With a couple of changes I think I can do this and give myself a nice wooden floor.
Check out my porch video ruclips.net/video/YLV-ti2Gq_M/видео.html , there I overframed the concrete floor to level it. Might give you a little more info on the subject. Glad to hear that the video was helpful!
I’ve got this same issue in my kitchen. Home is 75 years old . My floor has up to a 2 inch slope in just one corner. When I pulled out the kitchen sink and cabinets, there was rot in that corner. The subfloor had rot as well as the 6x6 floor joist, seal plate, rim joist and 2x4 bottom plate for the wall. I sistered the floor joist and replaced all the rotted sections. Now I’m ready to level the floor and think I’ll go with this method rather than ripping up perfectly good subfloor and raising or shimming the floor joists.
Good job. If you put the sleepers directly over the joists it would be stronger because the load would be transferred to the joists along the entirety of it rather than only at the points of intersection.
By going perpendicular - it gives you more flexibility for your new deck sheet layout. Running parallel or perpendicular doesn't really change the structural dynamics. Both are fine. In this solution you are floating a new floor on top and you get some added rigidity because of the new sheet deck. The new dead load is distributed evenly across the entire floor system. In some places (at the high points) - I was screwing the new deck down directly to the old floor surface and no sleepers were needed.
@@RundownReborn I agree it doesn't change the structural dynamics overall top to bottom. But you have to agree a 2-in sleeper going across two joists it's going to be springy when you step on the middle of it. Yes your overall load is fine but it's going to be springy when you step on it between two joists. Has to be
But I didn't remove the old floor deck. The sleepers are continuously supported by the old 3/4" cedar floor boards. I have not noticed any softness between the joists - otherwise the floor boards would be sagging too. If you remove the old floor deck and expose the joists - then yes - the sleepers should be parallel. This is a completely different approach than what I demonstrated in the video. And if you are removing the existing floor deck - you might as well sister all of the joists and reinforce the structure itself. Some of my sleepers taper to almost nothing. No sag or or spring even at those locations. The old floor deck and joists remain untouched. They are doing the main support job of the floor system. The top leveling is independent and floats on top of the old system. It is non-structural but is tied into the old structure. The 3/4" on top provides a little more rigidity - same as if you put two layers of deck material on a floor structure in new construction - such as on a theater stage. Think of it this way. Stand on any spot on your floor deck between the joists. Does the floor sag at that spot? Now lay a popsicle stick or ruler flat in the same spot. Did it begin sagging more? Probably not. Now lay the ruler flat in line with the joist. Did it sag less? It doesn't matter where the thin ruler is. The floor deck is the support - not the sleeper. The floor deck receives the live load and distributes that load to the joists. The sleepers transfer any live load to the floor deck they rest on. The structural dynamics are the same no matter where the sleeper is (parallel or perpendicular). The joist and old deck is doing 99% of the work. My floor still bounces a little - but that is because my floor joists are 2x8. If the house were originally built with 2x12 or pre-engineered composite wood joists (CWJ) - there would be no bounce in it at all.
@@RundownReborn makes sense. I suppose I am of that mindset because I am going to have to remove my subfloor and, as you say, at that point it makes sense to go parallel (either sister joists or wedges attached to the top of joists ). Thanks!
Absolutely. If your floor deck is being removed, I recommend sister any sagging joists. This will prevent further deflection of those joists. Just nail 2x8 wood (at 6-8 inches zig zagged - 1/2 on each side) to the side of each existing joist and align the top of the sister joist to you level plane. Any joists that aren't sagging can be blocked up to the level plane. Good luck with your project!
Awesome work and good explanation. I’ll be honest though every time a new scene started and Mike Rowe wasn’t the there I was confused. You sound just like him! Keep up the good work!
I would say both approaches can work. My suggestion would be to only sister joist if your floor joists (the structure below) is in bad shape. To determine this - you will need to inspect them. If the floor is *SAGGING* in the middle but the perimeter is okay/level - then the joists should probably be sister-ed. If the floor is *TILTING* or *SLOPING* but the joists are straight for the most part, then leveling would probably be fine. But if the house's floor does tilt - make sure you don't have a foundation problem. If the floor joists are rotten - they may need to be replaced entirely. The advantage to my method is its cheaper and I believe its much easier to do - especially if you are doing the entire house. Just make sure you find the high point for the entire system - otherwise you will have to have a step or transition area. Just be sure you don't have a structural problem before you make your final decision. Hope this helps! Thanks for watching and joining the channel!
recently bought a cabin in the mountains. The cast iron woodstove and brick has caused the floor to sag this just might be what I need to do to level it out. Thanks for the vid.
The use of a laser level will make this much easier and no need for all those screws. Also wonder did you consider sistering or jacking the joists from underneath.
@@RundownReborn just set the laser level up on one side of the room, start with 2x4 at the far side of the room, and mark it where the laser hits it. Then proceed toward the laser one 2x at the time, msrking them as you go.Then draw or chalkline to your marks. And cut with circular saw.
Hello, first of all thank you so much for making this video, it is really helpful in my own DIY floor renovation. A question regarding the sleepers going over the joists. Is there a benefit from reducing the spacing between the sleepers? The spacing in the video is about every 4 planks - meaning that every fourth plank will be load-bearing. Does it make sense to reduce the spacing between them? For example to put a sleeper on every second plank? This should transfer the load two more planks underneath and other than the increased cost it should be fine to do that? thanks
The spacing is based on the sheet plywood above, about 16” on center. The “planks” or floorboards are not load bearing… they transfer their load to the structural floor joists below them
Thank you sooooo much for this video! It is THE BEST floor leveling video on you tube. We live in an old house built in 1890 & are replacing laminated flooring in our kitchen with vinyl plank flooring. After tearing up the laminant, we have 2 different floors in our kitchen that thd previous owners tried leveling with whatever they Co ld get their hands on & it is a mess. I am going to use your system in this video to level our floor. Wish me Luck😬
Thank you. The system works - I've used it in my entire house. You might also check out this video if you haven't already. Another look at the process. ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html Best of luck with your project! Deric
Thank you for this information. I have a century old house that has a back porch that has been fully enclosed in the past seventy years. The floor was left with its original tilt ( to drain rain water). Leveling the floor without trying to raise the porch (which I imagine could really reek havoc) has been a problem that I could seem to solve without tearing everything apart. I will let you know how it works.
Well Rundown Reborn, thanks for confirming what we'll need to do in a second floor remodel with worse settling (up to four inches from the highest to lowest point) than you have there. Twos suggestion I'd make to your method: 1) Use a chalk line (string line) for marking your joists, and 2) Scribing those new 'sleeper' studs with a pencil and a spacer the size of the longest screw avoids having to measure every screw height. Otherwise, you nailed it!
Thanks for the suggestions. I recommend watching this video. It’s another look at the process when I did my upstairs. ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html
Any reason the sleepers cannot be placed perpendicular to floor joists if they're still screwed down securely at each joist? In my particular situation, without going into a lot of detail, this would be easier I think. Appreciate any info you can give - great video by the way.
Wow i'm facing some majorly sloped floors in a century plus house i just bought, been racking my brain how to approach the leveling. From ripping out the floors and sistering, to jacking up from down below. I really like ur approach. i'm gonna have to think on it some more. great videos! part 1&2
An easier way is to tack 2x4's to floor, then use a laser level (cheap one works great). Measure down marking the 2x4 every 16". Remove tacks. Put 2x4 on a saw horse, connect the dots, cut with circular saw or use a table saw. Screw back down to floor into floor joist. Make sure to use construction screws(strong), not sheet rock screws(can break).
Not a bad idea there. A couple problems that may arise are that 1) not everyone has a laser level and 2) depending on the floor, it sometimes can be difficult to get the board to lay tight against the floor with a 2x4 on end - especially if the floor undulates. My suggestion would be to use the laser to set the screw heights and then mark the sleepers. Yes, construction screws. Drywall screws are for drywall and maybe hanging a picture here and there.
@@RundownReborn The undulations will have no effect on the sleepers. They will rest on and be fastened to the high points. Laser levels are not very expensive.
Nice work! The beginning of your video gave me an idea of how to fix my own issue. I have a single joist that is solid wood and warped about 2-3mm lower than the others. I can simply tack 2x4s along both sides of the joist, level with the others. Having two boards distributes the weight among more screws. YOUR'E TOPS!
don't know if you're still taking questions on this but was wondering how many days did it take you to finish the flooring in this room alone, from the beginning of this video to the laying of the last piece of flooring?
Great job! I recently bought an old fixer upper. I had my main floor joists jacked up from the basement, then my contractors installed new OSB subfloor. My floor still has a serious bow in middle. I wish I had watched your video before they installed the new OSB subfloor. Anyway can I now use your method but instead of screwing into the original joists - just screw into the newly existing OSB subfloor? (Also- my new subfloor in the living room will now be almost level with my adjacent old hardwood kitchen floor, so I will have to figure something out as I plan to lay new flooring throughout the whole lower level for a seamlesss floor, but maybe that's for another discussion). Thanks in advance! You're a gifted teacher ( I teach English).
Hi David, I would hesitate to install a new second OSB layer over the new one you just installed - especially at the crazy high material costs right now. I would think the better solution is to remove the OSB that was just laid down (hopefully it wasn't glued), and shim or sister the joists to a level - if it is open to below. If your old floor deck is still there underneath - then level as I show in the video and reinstall the OSB you already have - which should be cut to fit. This would save you a great deal of material costs and weight on the structural system. What is the thickness of the OSB subfloor you just installed? Hopefully its 7/8". If its half inch - that isn't stiff enough and it will sag between the sleepers as you walk on it. If you can see the underside of the OSB you just installed, you might consider just removing the screws and shimming it up a little from the underside where you want it lifted and then re-attach it with screws from top side. I don't recommend trying to anchor into OSB subfloor material. OSB is brittle and the screws will just tear away over time. Wood floor structures tend to flex and this movement will cause the screws to tear away from the OSB and lose grip. This can lead to squeaky floors and can cause material lift later on. Thanks for the props and for watching. Good luck with your project!
@@RundownReborn thx, very informative. I don't like the idea of trying to remove the new OSB , as I think it's glued and tons of screws ( I won't be buying any more lumber materials till the prices come down). Oh, under the new OSB is old hardwood which I was going to try and save, but there were too many holes as I removed a chimney and ducts to the furnace, so yea , was in rough shape. What if I just tried to use floor leveler on the OSB where it's sagging really bad? I don't expect it to be perfectly level. Thanks again.
I don't know much about floor leveler. My biggest concern is that using large amounts of it on wood floors can cause a lot of weight and it may be susceptible to excessive cracking. Its certainly an option but may require more research for you to consider.
That corded mini-circular saw, what's the brand? Plenty of them to choose from, and my choice was baad. Since they all look identical (on the outside), I'd rather trust your opinion. So... what's the brand of the corded mini-saw? Your opinion of it?
I use a similar method but something that might be easier for you is a “dry pack concrete” similar to what’s used on a shower floor. You can work it level and it’s literally concrete after.
Not to be a thorn in your side, but did you fix the "sinking" issue? This may be fine for a few years but if there is foundation issues or rotting floor joists the problem will just continue. I'm currently in the process of replacing every floor joist in a customer's home and must level everything for below
I do believe the sinking issue is fixed. In this video I talk about it. I've linked to the moment I explain the issue from inside the basement. ruclips.net/video/M5r4cCSSM3Y/видео.html That combined with adding a gutter to the porch area and fixing the roof and I don't expect the house to settle anymore in that area.
Maybe a stupid question - if you can "somewhat conveniently" lift up the old decking, can you just lay shims along the tops of the joists and then put the decking back down?
The existing deck is 120 year old cedar plank flooring. Shimming 4” plank deck cedar would take 100s of hours and would alter the structural integrity. So that wasn’t an option.
Great method. I have a one story house where the floor is crowned. Meaning, the perimeter of the floor has settled about 1" more than the center of the floor. My problem is that the exterior glass sliding door threshold is right at the same elevation as the high point in the middle of the floor. Meaning, I can't raise the floor as much as you did. I would totally use your method if I could raise as much as I wanted. I think leveling compound is in my future. :-/
For me, I was replacing all interior and exterior doors, so I didn’t have this issue. You could either reinstall the door one inch higher or make a depressed area in front of the doorway. If it were me, I might consider raising the door to accommodate the new level floor. Thanks for watching!
Ive watched a few videos on this. yours starts out a little confusing but then really makes sense. Inhave a small bathroom I need to level to match a finished floor. Im figuring once i get the screw heights marked out to be level with the adjacent floor, Ill just subtract the width of the new subfloor and mark accordingly on the sleepers. does this make sense
I think you have the right idea. But I set my screw heads at the height of the sleepers where the underside of the sheet decking would be. No subtracting necessary. 💪👍
I bought a condo which I never noticed the dips because it had carpet and I wanted to switch to laminate flooring. But with the dips the installation didn’t come out good so now I’m starting from 0 looking for ways to level it. Do you think this method would hold up with laminate or going back to carpet is my best option?
I will be doing both over mine. I plan to do laminate in the living areas and baths and carpet in the bedrooms. A wood subfloor is common. Laminate floors are flexible - it should be find. Ceramic tile is another story though. That requires rigid cement board underlayment when installing it over wood floor systems. Hope this helps and good luck with your project. Welcome to the channel!!!
Thank you for a great video. I do have a question. In case floor is uneven due to root / wood worms, and even assuming you take care of the wood worm problem, won't the old floor sink more? (if continue to root) and make the new deck above it uneven as well with time?. Thank you.
If the insect problem is treated, the wood should be fine so long as it doesn’t crumble in your hand. Use a hammer to test the softness of the wood. If it crumbles or splits, replace it first. If the floor joists are sagging, the will need to be reinforced by sister-in-law new wood onto it to stiffen those. Once the structure is solid and stable, then level the floors. The new floor deck you install while leveling will stiffen everything up considerably but it will add more weight so make sure you structure is solid!
Not sure if that is simpler. Plus doing that you are modifying the structural diaphragm in the floor. We are also living in the house. Wasn’t really an option for us.
Thank you so much for this video (and all of your others). You prob wont see or respond to this comment and question before I finish the work on my kitchen remodel, but worth a try. Im doing a kitchen remodel on a small 100 year old cottage. There is a 2 inch difference between the left and the right side of the kitchen. I am renting from friends and they do not want to do a bigger structural fix, but are willing to pay for all of the material if I am willing to do the labor of the remodel. In any event, I didnt want to use self leveling concrete as it would be both expensive, and more importantly would add a significant amount of weight to a floor that Im not certain could support it. Was really pleased to find your approach. I only have 2 questions for you: 1- the existing floor of the kitchen has 2 levels of plywood--the original and a newer chip board. Both are still solid. If I were not exact and did not manage to screw the sleepers directly into the joists, would that be a significant problem? I.e, if the sleepers were screwed into the subfloor only, is that OK? 2- when cutting out the sleepers, do you think a circular saw would do the trick? Thanks so much! Really appreciated you.
It probably is okay to screw into the deck only if you also use construction glue such as liquid nails… otherwise the screws will loose grip and tear out over time and will squeak. I used a small 4” hand held circular saw to rip the sleepers. A jigsaw will work too but takes longer. Good luck with your project
Hi great video I just have one concern , I see you put the sleepers perpendicular to the joist direction , would it be structurally wise to do that , i mean distributing the load ?
In the video, I left the original floor board deck in place. Adding the sleepers perpendicular along with the second layer of deck just creates additional rigidity of the entire system. The sleepers will not add any “structural” strength to the system. The existing joists are the primary structure. What we are doing here is just leveling and adding some rigidity to the overall system which will reduce squeaking and bounce.
Seems like it would be easier to just pull up the sub-floor, cut strips off 2x4s (or plywood) to the right level and secure them to the tops of the joists. Then lay the sub floor back on top of that. That way you have a level floor and no gap underneath. The gap is going to give you an echo when you walk across the floor unless you insulate it.
Thanks for watching! Shimming the top of the joists is certainly one way to level a floor and I would definitely recommend this if your floor joists are damaged, worn or sagging or in need of reinforcement. In my case, the structural state of the floor joists is adequate and my existing floor deck is 3/4” plank cedar which is an excellent deck material and resistant to moisture rot from the damp crawl space and basement below. I desired to leave this in place and adding a 2nd layer of deck has stiffened the floor considerably and reduced a good portion of the bounce in the floor. Putting a vapor barrier between the layers has nearly eliminated the moisture, must and insect issues from below as well. The airspace will also add some thermal value too. Plus an overlay deck is easier (no tear out) and safer (especially since we’re living in the house with young kids). I have not noticed any echo issues or excessive sound problems. If this is a concern, I would recommend a carpet finish with a good sound rated padding or if laminate is preferred, use a sound dampening underlay material. One other thing to note, if you can’t tolerate a little bit of hollowness and bounce in your floors, don’t buy an old house with 2x6 floor joists. Stick with concrete floors (slab on grade). But for me...I think a little bit of thump under my step adds to the vintage charm of the home and gives it character.
As a structural engineer, I agree with building up the joists. I need to level a floor in an apt over a garage and my plan was to build up the joists. I agree with you about having the space under the floor. I didn’t like that idea.
@@RundownReborn I had no idea my old home (which is not on concrete,slab on grade) with 2x6 floor joists had "hollowness and bounce in floor" was actually not a structure issue. I asumed the sub floor was toast. The floor joist below look good. nice too learn something new at 42 yr old.
Thank you so much! This is very helpful! I have a question. I would like to use your method to level my kitchen floor, however I am worried that by the time I add 3/4 inch sub floor and then laminate flooring on top, the height difference between my living room floor and kitchen floor will be too significant (possibly over a one inch gap). Do you have any advice for this?
In this case you are either going to need a transition strip between the different finishes or level the adjacent room too. Or remove the existing subfloor in the kitchen to bring the floor lower. If the only transition place is a doorway, I recommend to slope the threshold there between the rooms. If the rooms are open to each other, a more substantial solution is needed.
Hi, thanks for the informative and concise video! Your method seems like a tractable and efficient solution. Our neighbors implemented something similar and are very satisfied. I'm curious if you could offer me a bit of advice. Our structural engineer confirmed that our 90-yo house is in good structural condition but underwent massive settling decades ago. The engineer is quite certain it's stable now because the old paint, drywall, etc are intact. However, the settlement is truly massive -- for example, about 7 inches over the 13-foot width of our living room. It would be nice to get the floors closer to level, but clearly we're not going to get very close with 2x4s. Would it be insane to implement your method with thicker pieces of wood and some cross-supports? At some point, the screws would get extremely long... Curious if you have any ideas :) Thanks a lot!
Thanks for watching! If you have had a licensed structural engineer inspect your house - I would trust his/her opinion. He refers to the plaster being a clue because if there was significant structural framing compromised - you would see plaster falling off of the walls or serious cracks in it. 7 inches of settlement is significant but not unheard of. Usually settlement is not an issue with the house or the weight but instead the soil. Soft soil conditions can cause foundations to settle. Is that area around that part of the house properly drained? Does it have gutters or was it missing gutters for a significant amount of time? What caused the house to sink into the ground? Solving that problem will stop the settlement. Proper drainage of water away from the house is usually the solution. At 7 inches of settlement - I would consider calling a foundation repair contractor and get an estimate on raising the house some in that area before spending money on the floors. Hope this helps you.
@@RundownReborn Thanks so much! It does seem to be an issue with the soil or the height of the water table -- the neighboring houses are all visibly out of level, too. According to the city's documentation, it seems that this area used to be prone to flooding due to poor engineering on the city's part. That's about all we know. The drainage situation is okay-ish but currently under improvement! We're re-doing the gutters, touching up the grading, foundation maintenance, etc. We'll observe the situation for a while after the updates are complete before we do anything exciting. I'm glad to hear our issue isn't unheard of! Our engineer recommended cosmetic fixes like leveling the floors. His opinion is that while the house is structurally sound now, there's no guarantee it will remain structurally sound if we raise it even part of the 14 inches it has tilted. He surmises it's been in this orientation for several decades. We're just having a little trouble finding leveling methods that can be extended to a 7-inch drop. Thanks again :)
@@madistoddard7530 yes, 7 inches is quite a bit of distance. If it’s in only one area of the house, I would probably investigate jacking up the house there and resetting it to the foundation. Then you can always use some perforated drain tiles around the perimeter outside to help keep the soil dry.
this looks promising. My floors are uneven and I actually had a contractor come in to level it that made a complete mess of the whole thing. He used ashpalt shingles and two separate sheets of 1/2 plywood laying ashphalt in between the original Pine T&G decking and the first layer of plywood as well as more ashpalt shingles between the 1st. layer of plywood and the second. Both layers of plywood are not T&G. What I have been left with is a still unlevel, spongy mess that has PL 400 glue in some places and likely thousands of screws everywhere. Part of the reason he used as much product as he did was because he was trying to raise the level of my floor to my new kitchen tile (even though I told him I didn't mind the small step up). I've been searching everywhere for some good advice and your video looks like it might just do the trick. So my plan is to rip it all up, try to remove as much of the PL as I can and start over using a single layer of 3/4 ply and your method. I do have one question though. In the video you showed close ups of the sleepers that showed gaps inbetween them and your decking. Didn't that translate into some uneveness when you secured the decking at each screw point?
Wow, what a story. I would definitely recommend at least 5/8" at the minimum (not 1/2") but 3/4" T&G is best. That thickness provides tremendous stiffness to the system that you won't get with 1/2". Trying to get that old plywood up that has been glued is going to be a big chore - especially if the glue is over the lower sandwiched screws. Trying to find the screws can be difficult. Also - I'm not sure what gaps in the sleepers you are referring to in the video but if you do have those - you can always shim the bottom side if necessary (perhaps with some of those leftover shingles - LOL). I recommend that as you set the sleepers in place - continue to check for level with adjacent sleepers and screws to be sure that your deck plane is as level as possible. Check out this video for another look at leveling a floor: ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html I suggest that you do all the screw leveling first for the entire floor and base everything off of your kitchen floor connection. Be sure to put a sleeper down along the seam between the different floor so that you won't get separation or unevenness at the transition doorway and/or connection. If your sleepers are parallel to the seam - start at the seam and work your way out. If they are perpendicular - start at the center and work to the sides. If you can get your levelness within 1/8" you will probably never notice it underfoot. Good luck with your project and thanks for watching!
@@RundownReborn Good advice. Thanks. Ya the gap I was talking about was inbetween the points made by the screws. I do kind of expect that because my floor in slightly wavy in some areas so ya, I will likely need to do some shimming.. Another couple of questions. I myself have a small 3 inch dremel saw which I don't think will do. Unfortunately the local Home Depot doesn't have any 4 inch saws (weird right?) so I"m wondering if you can disclose the brand you used so I can search for it online. Also, did you put any glue down under your sleepers and what type of flooring are you planning on putting down over the sleepers? I'll be putting down high end engineered Hardwood. I plan on starting after the Holiday. I'm a bit nervous about glue residue. do you have any recommendations on products to use to soften it up so I can scrape it off?
To find a saw - just google a 4" circular saw or a 4 1/2" circular saw. I found several available online and the 4 1/2" size is more prevalent. If I were to buy again - I think I would buy a 4 1/2" as the 4" sized saw blade is hard to find replacements for. I bought the cheapest one available at Menard's at the time. It feels a little under powered. I have found that this saw really comes in handy. It might be worth buying a name brand saw like Dewalt. Home Depot has them available for around $100 when they are on sale. They cost a little more but will have a stronger motor. A cordless one would be handy too. It's a really handy saw for around the house and much easier to work with than a larger 6" or 8" saw in many cases. Regarding the floor - I did not use any glue in my floor. It is not a bad idea to do so - but I didn't to save time and money. The floor material I put onto the sleepers was 7/8" T&G OSB board. This is heavy and sturdy and you won't get "waviness" with that thickness. 7/8" thick sheet material doesn't bend. On top of that subfloor, you can put any finish floor that you like (ie: carpet, laminate, hard wood, etc.). As far as tricks to getting wood glue up - I really don't have any suggestions other than saws, flat bars, floor scrapers, muscle and sweat. I've never tried it in this application but an oscillating saw might be helpful to cut in between the layers some - if you can work it in there.
Sad story, Hope the fix goes well. Another solution is using a laser level and scribes if you have access to laser. I built a finished room out of patio cover area. My floor went about 5" out of level at 10' (concrete). First I also drew/snapped reference lines exactly to where joists would end up. Then I set up an arbitrary control line with laser. This was to level the height of new floor with old floor from house. I set up pressure treated 2x6 on shim stacks from highest point of floor. After that I scribed a line from floor to 2x6. Because the 2x6 sagged/bowed I used Fast Cap 3rd hand poles to press 2x6 down against ceiling to force them tight to shims. I hope some of this might help, just sharing my experience :)
This task can be done by scribing the sleepers to the floor instead of measuring. Given the size of the room I'd be inclined to first put sleepers along the short sides of the room that are level to each other and at the height needed to match the floor in the other room. Then install a sleeper at a floor joist point at about half the length of the room making it level with the end two. Mark the tops of all three sleepers for 16" on-center spacing. To fill in the field lay a "new" sleeper from the end sleeper to the center sleeper at the marked 16" locations and put an "T" on top of it to denote the top. Make a wood block to use as a scribing guide--a 10" piece of 2x4 works! As you slide the block along the floor hold a pencil against the top of it and the side of the "new" sleeper to mark the sleeper thickness. Mark the ends of the "new" sleeper to fit between the installed sleepers. Cut the marked sleeper to length and then along the line with waste side being the part below the scribed line, i.e., the saw kerf should be in the waste (the bottom part of the sleeper stock) not in the sleeper. The part marked with the "T" becomes the sleeper. This is a lot faster method that eliminates all the screws, the measuring, risk of measuring error, and connecting dots. After showing them how, I had my 8 and 10 year old sons scribe the sleepers for a 16' x 24' room. I checked the first one and it was perfect... I didn't check any more I simply cut what they marked. If you want to get "perfect" sleepers run the sleepers through a jointer to straighten one edge. Then run them through a table saw or thickness planner to make the other edge parallel to the first. If you do this make your scribing block the same width as the resulting stock. They may warp after you scribe and cut them but they will straighten out when you screw them down! After I had the floor done I used it as a reference surface to level and flattened the ceiling!
Just talked to a structural engineer about this method, he didn't recommend it all not because the new 3/4" plywood will add extra weight to the foundation. It will eventually break it. Just jack up the beams under the subfloor, enhance them, and install new plywood if needed.
Yea thats bananas. If a sheet of plywood fails you're Foundation, you have much larger issues than a floor. Plywoods over a 4x8 sheet is lighter than you standing there.....
How are you compensating for an inconsistent slope? Are you shimming underneath when there's a gap and sanding the floor or the shim when there's a 'high spot' on the overall downward slope. Is the cut wavy or just downward? If that makes sense...I'm dealing with an unlevel floor myself. Overall, it's not that off, maybe a a quarter inch or 3/16 at most, but there's points along the way that aren't straight downhill like a ramp. At some points, it's1/8 off. At others, it's 1/4, then 3/16, then back to 1/8, then 3/16 again. Etcetera. How are you dealing with that with the cut or some other means? I'm a DIYer who's never done this. The wavy off level thing is the result of my mistake, which I can't walk back at this point.
My floors undulate as well. At the lowest point I'm over 2 inches that slopes upward to a high point near the center of the house. The floor overall slopes one direction to the northeast corner but it is not a continuous slope. Mine too vary in depth up or down. Using the screws, I found the cut depths of my sleepers at the various points in the floor. Then I cut my sleepers to follow the contour of the depths where it rests. The cut goes up and down to follow the floor so the top is level (or near level). I'm not perfectly level and I gave myself up to an 1/8" to a 1/4" of tolerance. That amount of waviness is virtually undetectable underfoot in my opinion. But it will be a little noticeable with four legged furniture and appliances like refrigerators.
So I have same sloping and wavy issue. My floor has the original plank floor with a T&G plank style decking. Would I need to remove that decking first before adding a new plywood subfloor using your method?
Hi Amadeus. Thanks for watching! You can do either - but I would say that it all depends on how much you have to level. The floors I am doing - I am leveling the entire house so I added the new level floor deck on top of the old floor deck. If you are trying to level a room and you don't want an uneven transition to the next room - you may need to pull up the old decking - so the new decking will be flush with the adjacent floor deck in the next room. If you do this - just level the top of the existing joists with the same methods and attach the sleeper wedge blocks along the top of each floor joist to provide the level screw pad for setting new decking onto. Then attach the new OSB deck to the top of those level wedges. Be sure to inspect the joists for any rot or weakness and sister joist any spots that may be compromised. Good luck with your project. Hope the video was helpful.
@@RundownReborn So it won't be too much weight with the original sloping floor boards plus a wavy decking, the new level osb decking and vinyl flooring? 3 levels of wood plus vinyl. I have a finished basement underneath not a crawl space
A square foot of deck sheeting is maybe 5 pounds. How much do you weigh standing on 1 foot in the same spot? See the difference? The sheeting weight is spread out evenly. It won’t be a problem. Concern yourself more with making sure you have a level and smooth floor with clean transitions to adjacent rooms.
Hello I'm doing this in my kitchen. Its 2 and a half inches lower on one side. There's multiple layers of old subfloor and laminate flooring so I'm not going to tear it up but add on top of it. What thickness of plywood did you use? Thank you.
You should be okay going over the old flooring. Just be sure you know where the old structural joists are so you can tie into them - otherwise the floor will squeak. I used 23/32 t&g osb decking. Nominal thickness is 3/4”. Good luck on your project and thanks for watching!!!
Part 2 of the video goes into more detail about installing the decking. >>> DIY Easiest Way To Level An Old Wood Floor Using Only Screws, Wood and A Level (Part 2 of 2)
what about the gap of space between the sundeck and the joist? did you put shims at least underneath those screws? What about over the years when you're walking about and the floor continues to sink? I don't get it bro. I think there are some flaws here.
The floor will always flex some. The house is over 100 years old. The sagging is finished for the most part. The added deck on top (3/4" thick) has added considerable rigidity to the floor diaphragm. I don't expect anymore sag to occur. As for continued settlement of the foundation (which causes tilt) - that too has been remedied in other ways through foundation reinforcements and proper perimeter drainage. The gap of space between the original deck and the new deck varies from zero to about 1.5". That is an airspace with a vapor barrier. It won't affect structural performance. I used long 2.5 to 3 inch screws at 12" o.c. They have good grip depth to the joists underneath.
How do you factor in the thickness of the plywood when leveling to the top of the existing floor in the other room. Wouldn't the end product be 3/4 to 5/8 inches higher than the floor that you are trying to level to?
Do you subtract the thickness of the subfloor from the shims you cut? Otherwise the shims themselves will be level with the subfloor you leveled from, correct?
Yes. You will need to allow for the thickness of the deck sheeting - especially if you are tying into an existing floor surface. The tops of my screws in the video is where the BOTTOM of the deck sheeting sets. Hope this clears things up for you. Thanks for watching!
You had the floor joists exposed- why not screw/glue a 2x4 to the floor joist making the 2x4 level and then screw subfloor down to a level surface. Seems alot easier.
So when you draw the lines, don’t you get sharp corners where the differences between the 2 points is really bad? And is the wood not splitting without predrilling?
The lines aren’t perfect but close enough. And sure the wood splits sometimes but rarely and it really isn’t an issue. The sleepers are 100% compression load. They are dead blocks so they aren’t needed for tensile strength. The screws are just there to hold them in place until the deck is down and to tie them into the floor structure.
@@RundownReborn thanka! My floor upstairs is really bad but instead of those big planks you hem on them mine exists of just a bunch of smaller planks. Might try this though because my desk chair is rolling away from my desk now. Love your videos btw! Already watched alot of them in like 3 days haha. Do you have one about how much time you spend on cleaning everyrhing after you were done lol? Great idea about those lists. I just move and took your “advise” made a list and at least cross off 1 thing (they are way more simple stuff for now) every day. Kinda helps everything going. I would love to see you go in depth and explain just a little more from time to time.
@@RoyD2 thank you so much Roy. It’s wonderful to hear the videos are resonating with you. Clean is ongoing. Sometimes it takes a whole day… especially during drywall and even longer with demo. And thank you for the suggestions. I will continue to try and refine the content. Sometimes I go into depth… check out the video about why I enter into the dining room. Thanks for watching!!! 💪👍🙏 ARCHITECT EXPLAINS: Why His Front Door Enters The Dining Room ruclips.net/video/9crIp0dDskk/видео.html
@@RundownReborn so what would you advise for a circle saw now that you are more experienced with the equipment? I am gonna need one to try this. I already own a bunch of makita drills so my preference would be makita, but the circles saws I find look like they are more made for just cutting straight while yours looks more flexible.
@@RoyD2 I just went to the store and bought the cheapest 4 inch saw on the shelf. Dont use a jigsaw… it takes forever this way. But the little 4-4.5 inch saws are easy to steer down the board.
If you are raising the floor, you would need to raise the door too. You might not need a new door, you would just need to raise the header up above the opening. It’s not hard… but might take some time and will be a little messy.
Eye protection, hand protection always tuck in loose clothing. PPE is an understatement for the DIYer.. That voice.. are you Wilson’s brother from Home Improvement?
I wish my subfloor was this easy to lift up! I pulled up on sheet and there's 4 or 5 older layers to go through! top subfloor is screwed into an older 1/4" plywood subfloor, which is on top of 3 or 4 layers of linoleum which is on top of 1x4 planks which are finally attached to the joists. What a nightmare
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No doubt you are much more knowledgeable than I am, and most likely also, you have a lot more practice at doing it than I do. Having said that however, I can't see how that would work.
I have the same issue in my home, and looking for solutions for over one year, carefully studying the several options available to repair the issue.
Your method seems to be the most difficult one, involving lots of measuring, materials and equipment, even if you say it would only take a level and some screws.
My question is.... Why would you lay additional wood pieces to level the floor, creating yet another space in between board, where eventually creatures are going to craw in, and make a home in your home? Would it not be easier, if having leveled the floor with screws, you were to just pour some self leveling cement, and use the screws as a guide to achieve optimal result?
That is what I have been considering but, the only reason I have not done it yet, is because I can't seem to find out which material to use, to prevent the liquid cement from running through the gaps I have in the current wood floor.
Any ideas? I would appreciate your opinion, being that you seem so knowledgeable about the subject.
Thank you.
Hi Mario. Welcome to the channel.
I've found this floor leveling method works quite effectively. There are several ways to level a floor but I feel this was the best way to do my old floors.
I don't believe it is very difficult. Leveling the screws is probably the most technical part of the process. There are really only four tools you need: a level, a tape measure, a drill and a saw. A complete list of recommended tools are in the video description. The materials involved are screws, sheets of t&g decking, vapor barrier and studs to rip down as sleepers.
The sleepers will create a bit of an airspace over the old floor where you are raising the surface to create a level space. My approach to solving the issues with keeping basement odors, air and critters away was to lay down a vapor barrier over my sleepers and under my new decking. This is all explained in part 2 which you can watch here: ruclips.net/video/tOANffNqoDA/видео.html
I leveled my upstairs as well. This video: ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html shows another look at the floor leveling process which might be worth watching to get a wider view of the process.
The reason I did not go with a self-leveling cement is for a few reasons. First, as you mention, there is the issue of it leaking through the floor which needs to be dealt with. Second, in some areas of the floor, I was making up to over 2 inches of vertical distance to get a level plane. This is a lot of material to pour which would add a lot of weight to the system as well as cost to the project. Third, I've never personally used self-leveling cement so I felt more comfortable with wood. Fourth, since the floors are wood and have a great deal of "bounce" and flex to them (compared to a slab floor), I fear that cement would tend to crack excessively and break up over time causing a lot of other issues down the road. Fifth, adding an overlay wood system mechanically ties into the old system (via screws) thereby making the new floor integral with the old floor thus increasing the overall rigidity and strength of the entire floor system.
I hope this discussion assists you in your project and I appreciate you inquiring.
Good luck in your renovation and thanks so much for watching.
@@RundownReborn
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain in such detail your point of view, and the reasons to your method.
I have given the weight of leveling cement a great deal of importance when considering on how to proceed. It is of great concern to me, considering that my craw space is difficult to access (very little space to actually even to craw into it), and gain access to the back of the house. I have plenty of space in the front but, the back is hard to access, and I have actually spent several hours in the past couple years digging with a shovel and bucket. Terrible work to someone my age (68 years old), 6'3" tall, and weighing over 180 lb. It is hard for me but, I have accomplished quite a bit, enough that I am now actually able to craw in, and actually added some support to some of the sagging floor joists.
Simply put, this is the house I wish to live in until the day I die. I love my home, and the area where it is located in but, I have to consider that I am also getting old, and with each passing year it gets more and more difficult to accomplish the tasks I set or plan on tackling. I am getting old.
I am considering just stopping, and accessing the issue from what may, at first, seem to be the a more difficult angle, which is to say, from above, as you are doing or did on the video above.
First, I have considered that it might actually be easier to me to dig the craw space from above, set some additional support columns and level it, making laying of a new floor much easier and simpler. It is my opinion that if I open the floor, and level and add additional support beans to the existing structure, the rest of the process would be much faster and easier to accomplish.
I live alone, and don't have any relatives such as a son or anyone else who could help me. Paying someone to do it, is expensive, and honestly, I don't have the means so.... I have to measure twice, and sometimes more often, and cut only once.
Once again, thank you for your expert advice. I do appreciate it greatly.
Wishing you the very best, Always.
Mario.
@Jesus My Savior
Hello. How are you? I hope all is well.
To be perfectly honest, I have not started it yet.
I am still searching for options. It is not something I need to do immediately so, I am still working from under the house, trying to lift all that I can by myself.
It is hard awful work but, I don't have anything else to do at this time. So, I am taking my time. A little bit everyday, and trying not to kill myself in the process...lol I am getting there, little by little. But so far so good. Everything I have done, has worked out. I am using hydraulic jacks, cement blocks and 4 x 4's. It is going but, by myself, it is a slow process. I don't want to cause any damage. It would be great to have some help, someone younger, thinner, and more flexible to get to some of the hard spot but, when I am working on a spot where I cannot easily fit in, I just dig the dirt out, until I can fit.
Eventually, what I think I will be able to do, it have it level to such a degree where the leveling needed will be minimal, and I will then use some self-leveling cement, and not run the risk of adding too much weight to the existing support system in place.
Faith, Hope, and Trust. With the help of God, everything will end up working for the best.
Good luck with your project. Take your time, take your phone with you if you need to call for help, and watch out for little creatures crawling around.
I think I got bitten by a spider once, not really sure, other than the fact that something down there bit me.
It will all work out.
@Mario If you wanted to, you could fill in the spaces between the runner strips he installed, and then use the runners as the level surface for a screed - you could screed the filler material - mortar or whatever - by dragging a long screed board across the runners to make the surface of the mortar flush with the leveling-runner strips.
But there is a lot of volume of material - it would not be cheap! He mentioned 1 1/2" of depth to fill in on the low side of the room. Another option would be foam sheets cut to size.
But one thing you have to realize, the issue with varmints etc. never really goes away with this type of older construction home - it probably has a large crawl space underneath. As long as the moisture barrier is installed that he described, you can rest easy, because the floor has more than one layer of building material and flooring. There's no way any pest control issue will be more of a factor than the crawl space under the house.
instaBlaster...
I bought an 86 year old house and gutted it to the studs. The floors were a mess, they were so uneven in every way and every spot. I had no idea what to do or how to fix it. My contractor messed me over and I was left to try and figure it out on my own. I have no carpentry skills whatsoever so I took to youtube and you were the first video I had found. It took me 5 weeks but my floor is 100% level and secure with your method. Thank you so much for sharing this!
So glad to hear it was helpful and successful! Thanks for sharing
This is such a good news to hear!
Your Sir, are a Miracle for me............I'm a single 65 year young (LOL) woman...........and have been beat'n my head against the wall, trying to figure out how to level an ajoining floor to a level one. Opening up an entry in 2 directions, I was left with this problem...........all I needed was the "screw demonstration" I knew I'd have to do just what you did with the rip'n of the boards to make it level. Thank you so much............this was definately a God send!!
Awesome. Best of luck on your project
What a beautifully done ruclips.net/user/postUgkxYGamVaHfdHiPlAQaLa7zkwR02OKpGYDU ! The instructions and the photographs are brilliant. It is thorough and genuinely informative. Ryan got another winner! No one does it better!
On the high points every 24” with self sealing and self tapping screws
I'm a hardwood sander and refinisher, and I'm just looking at videos that pertain to fixing and repairing floors and I came across your video, I admire your "do it yourself" video here, my first thought was that you had a table saw or at least a circular saw to rip the 2x4 sleepers, when you showed the saw (at 5 amps LOL), I just had to laugh, because I don't like any saw to rip wood under 13amps LOL, in my trade I'm a power tool for the job type of guy, for repairs and sanding and refinishing, but I have nothing negative to say, just love...and I also subscribed and thumbed up
So glad to have you join the channel. I try not to introduce expensive or unique tools. I try to use the basic tools. Not everyone has a table saw. I just purchased mine recently. I didn't have one during this video. Plus - a table saw does too straight of a cut and the sleepers tend to have a shifting line that you must follow. The saw I used was the cheapest one I could find. It got the job done - slowly. :) It was much better than the jigsaw I was using at the beginning. :)) I have a large heavy powered worm drive framing saw but it was too much saw for this job I felt.
@@RundownReborn Thanks for the reply back, also with practice one can learn to cut on angles with the table saw without using the guide, but I hear you and thanks for the video, I'm just picking up bits and pieces of knowledge here and there on youtube, thanks
Genius!! I need to put in some sister joists to sloping old joists so I am doing something different but am so glad I watched this since I can now get the right levels with this technique. Thank you so much!
Thanks for watching!
This is super helpful. Working on a 100+ year old house and everything is so uneven. This was the best video I’ve seen to help out!
Thank you so much for sharing your skills as I'm following this step-by-step as I'm doing my little cabin that I live in thank you
Thanks for watching!!!
I had to do the same in my old house for a 20x20 space. Very time consuming!
I like your screw method - I followed the same principle but use a laser level instead.
Mounted the laser on the opposite side of the room from my highest point and worked my way towards the laser, marking all my sleepers and cutting them and placing them as I went.
The end result is great - only folks who did this know how much work it really takes to do this.
Fantastic job in your place and great video!!
Great story. I find it takes a couple of hours to set the screws in a room. Then a few hours to install the sleepers. The next day, I lay down the sheets. A 2 day effort for a room on your own. Probably one day if you have a helper.
easy to follow explanations and tricks to realize a leveled floor like a pro thank you very much to share your knowledge with the public you are certainly helping.
Thank you for watching! Welcome to the channel
You, Sir, are a genius. I was gonna tear up the whole floor, then sister the joists with an angled board to level, but had no idea how to achieve the job. Thanks.
Glad to hear the video helped. I would only recommend sistering joists if the joists themselves are rotton or sagging. If they sag in the middle but not at the ends, this is called "deflection" which means they aren't doing the job effectively and are structurally weak. If they are straight but sloped - this means the foundation has settled some (causing the unevenness in the floor above) - suggesting that the joist is still strong. Thanks for watching!
@@RundownReborn I would only add that a sagging joist under no load at the time of measurement is suffering from long term wood creep, not deflection under load. Wood creep does stem from deflection under load, but a joist that has a permanent sag after the load is removed is suffering solely from wood creep. Also, floors that have a uniform, sloped tilt can be suffering from rotted or cracked let-ins, rotted sills, settled foundations or piers, older water damage, or even termite damage. It's always worth it to check conditions at the joist ends, because sometimes it's just better to rebuild it all.
@@Loonypapa great tips. Thanks for sharing
Saved me money, time, and trouble with a great video and explanation. You have been a God Send to me helped me decide what to do. Thanks...
So great to hear! Thanks for watching and welcome to the channel!!!
Your method worked well to level the floor in my 8' x 12' kitchen. The process was time consuming but relatively easy. Measure 3X, cut 1X is my new mantra.
So glad to hear the process worked for you as well. Thanks for sharing!
you remind me of myself, im currently gutting an entire 3 family house with my gf, and its these types of problems we are facing. thanks for the channel! glad to see the inspiration :)
Very cool. Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much! this worked out so well for me in a 350sft room. using a track saw and a laser level made it so much easier for me. before doing this using your method, i tackled the first two second floor rooms by pulling out the old nailed down original hardwood floors and then running shims directly on top of the old and unstraight joist then adding new OSB and 3/4" hardwood. I braced the joists with blocking too. The house is from 1900. was remodeled but for some reason leveling was not a priority for them (im sure it has to do with cost to jack things up). this time around i still braced the joists in the 350sft room but i didnt pull out the old floor. put the sleepers right on top. then osb and 3/4 hardwood to flush with the previously installed hardwood. my only concern is that the 350sft room now has an additional 5 PSF. not sure how detrimental that might be. Im a chemEngr by training. no structural engr expertise. one side of the floor is supported by a 5.5" wide by 14" depth LVL beam with a 15foot span. every research ive done says im good. whats your thoughts? thank you for this astute approach to solving this problem. subscribed!
Awesome! So glad to hear the video was helpful!
Regarding loads…
How much do you weigh? Stand still in a 1 square foot spot in the center of the floor. Now bounce up and down. Did the floor deflect or fail? Probably not. I’m sure you weigh much more than 5 lbs. 😁
Thanks for sharing your experience!!!
@@RundownReborn lol thank you man. looking forward to your videos
I like how you are using the screws to achieve level. I might take the underlayment off of my rafters and use this method directly on the too of the rafters. I want to install 3/4" tongue and groove wood flooring and I don't want to raise the finished floor level another 1.5" + level offset above the existing surrounding floors. Still, it is all a lot of work! Thanks for the ideas!
Hope the video was helpful!
You keep me going at my lowest man. The color comes back just for a few minutes x
💪💪💪
Thank you man! i broke my head on how to level my old floor. You showed me a very efficient way to do it.
Awesome, Thanks for Watching!
Awesome video, really appreciate the use of basic tools that most of us amateurs have!
Thanks so much. Glad you like the video.
LOL that tiny chair!
This is a really interesting approach to a unique problem.
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Thank you! This is a great educational video!!! I’ve been contemplating trying to level an upstairs bedroom floor for 6 years:). Now I understand much better
Awesome and thanks for watching. Good luck with your project.
Wow. Thank you so much for this video. Not too long. Not too short. Concise and to the point. Subscribed.
Awesome! Welcome! I hope you enjoy the channel.
Good job guy. ( im doing mine right now. Using a lot of both your ideas put together with some of my own from experience. I got a lot of nice tip from this. Thanx. Mike
Good luck with your project. Thanks for watching!
Fantastic video. I have a concrete floor with the same problem and don’t want to use self-levelling goop. With a couple of changes I think I can do this and give myself a nice wooden floor.
Check out my porch video ruclips.net/video/YLV-ti2Gq_M/видео.html , there I overframed the concrete floor to level it. Might give you a little more info on the subject. Glad to hear that the video was helpful!
Thank u im going to start on my house tomorrow... Its. A duplex we moved to the front yesterday and tomorrow I'll start on this..
Good luck with your project and thanks for watching!
@@RundownReborn thank u for all the helpful videos.. God bless you and ur family!
ty for this video!! im redoing our floor and everything else and this is helping!!! i dont know what i'd do without youtube!!!!!!
Good luck with your project and thank you so much for watching!!!
I’ve got this same issue in my kitchen. Home is 75 years old . My floor has up to a 2 inch slope in just one corner. When I pulled out the kitchen sink and cabinets, there was rot in that corner. The subfloor had rot as well as the 6x6 floor joist, seal plate, rim joist and 2x4 bottom plate for the wall. I sistered the floor joist and replaced all the rotted sections. Now I’m ready to level the floor and think I’ll go with this method rather than ripping up perfectly good subfloor and raising or shimming the floor joists.
Wow. Sounds very much similar. Thanks for sharing. Best of luck with your project
Very good communicator
Thanks so much! 🙏 welcome to the channel!
That was great. I have a bathroom floor that isn't level, this helps a lot! I just subscribed to your channel.
Welcome to the channel and good luck with your project!!!
I like your sawhorse (ladder). I’m going do the same.
Good job. If you put the sleepers directly over the joists it would be stronger because the load would be transferred to the joists along the entirety of it rather than only at the points of intersection.
By going perpendicular - it gives you more flexibility for your new deck sheet layout. Running parallel or perpendicular doesn't really change the structural dynamics. Both are fine. In this solution you are floating a new floor on top and you get some added rigidity because of the new sheet deck. The new dead load is distributed evenly across the entire floor system. In some places (at the high points) - I was screwing the new deck down directly to the old floor surface and no sleepers were needed.
@@RundownReborn I agree it doesn't change the structural dynamics overall top to bottom. But you have to agree a 2-in sleeper going across two joists it's going to be springy when you step on the middle of it. Yes your overall load is fine but it's going to be springy when you step on it between two joists. Has to be
But I didn't remove the old floor deck. The sleepers are continuously supported by the old 3/4" cedar floor boards. I have not noticed any softness between the joists - otherwise the floor boards would be sagging too. If you remove the old floor deck and expose the joists - then yes - the sleepers should be parallel. This is a completely different approach than what I demonstrated in the video. And if you are removing the existing floor deck - you might as well sister all of the joists and reinforce the structure itself.
Some of my sleepers taper to almost nothing. No sag or or spring even at those locations. The old floor deck and joists remain untouched. They are doing the main support job of the floor system. The top leveling is independent and floats on top of the old system. It is non-structural but is tied into the old structure. The 3/4" on top provides a little more rigidity - same as if you put two layers of deck material on a floor structure in new construction - such as on a theater stage.
Think of it this way. Stand on any spot on your floor deck between the joists. Does the floor sag at that spot? Now lay a popsicle stick or ruler flat in the same spot. Did it begin sagging more? Probably not. Now lay the ruler flat in line with the joist. Did it sag less? It doesn't matter where the thin ruler is. The floor deck is the support - not the sleeper. The floor deck receives the live load and distributes that load to the joists. The sleepers transfer any live load to the floor deck they rest on. The structural dynamics are the same no matter where the sleeper is (parallel or perpendicular). The joist and old deck is doing 99% of the work.
My floor still bounces a little - but that is because my floor joists are 2x8. If the house were originally built with 2x12 or pre-engineered composite wood joists (CWJ) - there would be no bounce in it at all.
@@RundownReborn makes sense. I suppose I am of that mindset because I am going to have to remove my subfloor and, as you say, at that point it makes sense to go parallel (either sister joists or wedges attached to the top of joists ).
Thanks!
Absolutely. If your floor deck is being removed, I recommend sister any sagging joists. This will prevent further deflection of those joists. Just nail 2x8 wood (at 6-8 inches zig zagged - 1/2 on each side) to the side of each existing joist and align the top of the sister joist to you level plane. Any joists that aren't sagging can be blocked up to the level plane. Good luck with your project!
Awesome work and good explanation. I’ll be honest though every time a new scene started and Mike Rowe wasn’t the there I was confused. You sound just like him! Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the kudos. WOW! Mike Rowe huh! He's one of my heroes. Thanks for watching. Welcome to the channel!
Like your method, I am level a 130 year old floor, torn between fixing sisters to joists or shimming as younhave
I would say both approaches can work. My suggestion would be to only sister joist if your floor joists (the structure below) is in bad shape. To determine this - you will need to inspect them. If the floor is *SAGGING* in the middle but the perimeter is okay/level - then the joists should probably be sister-ed. If the floor is *TILTING* or *SLOPING* but the joists are straight for the most part, then leveling would probably be fine. But if the house's floor does tilt - make sure you don't have a foundation problem. If the floor joists are rotten - they may need to be replaced entirely.
The advantage to my method is its cheaper and I believe its much easier to do - especially if you are doing the entire house. Just make sure you find the high point for the entire system - otherwise you will have to have a step or transition area. Just be sure you don't have a structural problem before you make your final decision.
Hope this helps! Thanks for watching and joining the channel!
recently bought a cabin in the mountains. The cast iron woodstove and brick has caused the floor to sag this just might be what I need to do to level it out. Thanks for the vid.
Thanks for watching!
The use of a laser level will make this much easier and no need for all those screws. Also wonder did you consider sistering or jacking the joists from underneath.
Perhaps and yes.
@@RundownReborn just set the laser level up on one side of the room, start with 2x4 at the far side of the room, and mark it where the laser hits it. Then proceed toward the laser one 2x at the time, msrking them as you go.Then draw or chalkline to your marks. And cut with circular saw.
Hello, first of all thank you so much for making this video, it is really helpful in my own DIY floor renovation.
A question regarding the sleepers going over the joists.
Is there a benefit from reducing the spacing between the sleepers? The spacing in the video is about every 4 planks - meaning that every fourth plank will be load-bearing.
Does it make sense to reduce the spacing between them? For example to put a sleeper on every second plank? This should transfer the load two more planks underneath and other than the increased cost it should be fine to do that?
thanks
The spacing is based on the sheet plywood above, about 16” on center. The “planks” or floorboards are not load bearing… they transfer their load to the structural floor joists below them
WOW!!! ---> so impressive!! Thanks
Glad you liked it!
You are a mad man nice work
Thank you sir! 😊 Welcome to the channel!!! 💪
Amen! Excellent job. My house exactly. Subscribed, thanks for posting the video.
Awesome! Thank you for watching!
Thank you sooooo much for this video! It is THE BEST floor leveling video on you tube. We live in an old house built in 1890 & are replacing laminated flooring in our kitchen with vinyl plank flooring. After tearing up the laminant, we have 2 different floors in our kitchen that thd previous owners tried leveling with whatever they Co ld get their hands on & it is a mess. I am going to use your system in this video to level our floor. Wish me Luck😬
Thank you. The system works - I've used it in my entire house.
You might also check out this video if you haven't already. Another look at the process.
ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html
Best of luck with your project!
Deric
Thank you for this information. I have a century old house that has a back porch that has been fully enclosed in the past seventy years. The floor was left with its original tilt ( to drain rain water). Leveling the floor without trying to raise the porch (which I imagine could really reek havoc) has been a problem that I could seem to solve without tearing everything apart. I will let you know how it works.
Glad it was helpful! I did the same on my front porch. Check out my front porch videos to see how I framed that out.
Holy crap ladder as a sawhorse? Pure genius
😆👍💪
Do you have a video of the follow on steps up to the finished product? Thank you.
There is a part 2 where I install the decking. I have not installed finished flooring yet
Excellent!!!!
Cool
This is great, thanks!
Thanks for watching
Well Rundown Reborn, thanks for confirming what we'll need to do in a second floor remodel with worse settling (up to four inches from the highest to lowest point) than you have there. Twos suggestion I'd make to your method:
1) Use a chalk line (string line) for marking your joists, and
2) Scribing those new 'sleeper' studs with a pencil and a spacer the size of the longest screw avoids having to measure every screw height. Otherwise, you nailed it!
Thanks for the suggestions. I recommend watching this video. It’s another look at the process when I did my upstairs.
ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html
Awesome job! Leveling the floors in a 600 sq ft section of my 200 year old home tomorrow. Really like your method.
That is awesome! Good Luck and thanks for watching!
Great video thanks
Thank you for watching
very helpful man, thanks 👍
Glad it helped. Thanks for watching!
Any reason the sleepers cannot be placed perpendicular to floor joists if they're still screwed down securely at each joist? In my particular situation, without going into a lot of detail, this would be easier I think. Appreciate any info you can give - great video by the way.
It would probably be okay if the old floor deck remains… but sleepers themselves have little to no strength
Great video! Thanks for your time and effort in doing this one!!
Thanks for watching!!!
Thanks so much for posting this!
Of course. My pleasure. Glad to hear that it was helpful.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Very interesting way to level the floor! Saves jacking up the joists! Thanks, Tom
No problem. Hope it helps and thanks for watching!
Wow i'm facing some majorly sloped floors in a century plus house i just bought, been racking my brain how to approach the leveling. From ripping out the floors and sistering, to jacking up from down below. I really like ur approach. i'm gonna have to think on it some more. great videos! part 1&2
An easier way is to tack 2x4's to floor, then use a laser level (cheap one works great). Measure down marking the 2x4 every 16". Remove tacks. Put 2x4 on a saw horse, connect the dots, cut with circular saw or use a table saw. Screw back down to floor into floor joist. Make sure to use construction screws(strong), not sheet rock screws(can break).
Not a bad idea there. A couple problems that may arise are that 1) not everyone has a laser level and 2) depending on the floor, it sometimes can be difficult to get the board to lay tight against the floor with a 2x4 on end - especially if the floor undulates.
My suggestion would be to use the laser to set the screw heights and then mark the sleepers.
Yes, construction screws. Drywall screws are for drywall and maybe hanging a picture here and there.
@@RundownReborn The undulations will have no effect on the sleepers. They will rest on and be fastened to the high points. Laser levels are not very expensive.
Nice work! The beginning of your video gave me an idea of how to fix my own issue.
I have a single joist that is solid wood and warped about 2-3mm lower than the others. I can simply tack 2x4s along both sides of the joist, level with the others. Having two boards distributes the weight among more screws. YOUR'E TOPS!
Awesome! A single 2x6 would be sufficient to sister on. The original joist will still carry the load. Good luck with your project.
I have a sister named Joyce, and shes really getting offended .
don't know if you're still taking questions on this but was wondering how many days did it take you to finish the flooring in this room alone, from the beginning of this video to the laying of the last piece of flooring?
Figure 3 days. 1 day to level. Second day to deck and third day for what you didn’t get done the first 2 days
Great job! I recently bought an old fixer upper. I had my main floor joists jacked up from the basement, then my contractors installed new OSB subfloor. My floor still has a serious bow in middle. I wish I had watched your video before they installed the new OSB subfloor. Anyway can I now use your method but instead of screwing into the original joists - just screw into the newly existing OSB subfloor? (Also- my new subfloor in the living room will now be almost level with my adjacent old hardwood kitchen floor, so I will have to figure something out as I plan to lay new flooring throughout the whole lower level for a seamlesss floor, but maybe that's for another discussion). Thanks in advance! You're a gifted teacher ( I teach English).
Hi David,
I would hesitate to install a new second OSB layer over the new one you just installed - especially at the crazy high material costs right now. I would think the better solution is to remove the OSB that was just laid down (hopefully it wasn't glued), and shim or sister the joists to a level - if it is open to below. If your old floor deck is still there underneath - then level as I show in the video and reinstall the OSB you already have - which should be cut to fit. This would save you a great deal of material costs and weight on the structural system.
What is the thickness of the OSB subfloor you just installed? Hopefully its 7/8". If its half inch - that isn't stiff enough and it will sag between the sleepers as you walk on it.
If you can see the underside of the OSB you just installed, you might consider just removing the screws and shimming it up a little from the underside where you want it lifted and then re-attach it with screws from top side.
I don't recommend trying to anchor into OSB subfloor material. OSB is brittle and the screws will just tear away over time. Wood floor structures tend to flex and this movement will cause the screws to tear away from the OSB and lose grip. This can lead to squeaky floors and can cause material lift later on.
Thanks for the props and for watching.
Good luck with your project!
@@RundownReborn thx, very informative. I don't like the idea of trying to remove the new OSB , as I think it's glued and tons of screws ( I won't be buying any more lumber materials till the prices come down). Oh, under the new OSB is old hardwood which I was going to try and save, but there were too many holes as I removed a chimney and ducts to the furnace, so yea , was in rough shape. What if I just tried to use floor leveler on the OSB where it's sagging really bad? I don't expect it to be perfectly level. Thanks again.
I don't know much about floor leveler. My biggest concern is that using large amounts of it on wood floors can cause a lot of weight and it may be susceptible to excessive cracking. Its certainly an option but may require more research for you to consider.
That corded mini-circular saw, what's the brand? Plenty of them to choose from, and my choice was baad.
Since they all look identical (on the outside), I'd rather trust your opinion.
So... what's the brand of the corded mini-saw? Your opinion of it?
I just bought the cheapest one available. It’s not something I use a lot.
Thank you! I have an old house and want to level my bathroom floor but didn't know how to approach it.
Awesome. Glad the video was helpful. Thanks for watching!
I use a similar method but something that might be easier for you is a “dry pack concrete” similar to what’s used on a shower floor.
You can work it level and it’s literally concrete after.
What is your experience with sheds in South Australia?
Unfortunately I have never been down under. But I’ve lived in Arizona for over a decade and I’ve seen a lot of sheds. 🙂
Not to be a thorn in your side, but did you fix the "sinking" issue? This may be fine for a few years but if there is foundation issues or rotting floor joists the problem will just continue. I'm currently in the process of replacing every floor joist in a customer's home and must level everything for below
I do believe the sinking issue is fixed. In this video I talk about it. I've linked to the moment I explain the issue from inside the basement. ruclips.net/video/M5r4cCSSM3Y/видео.html
That combined with adding a gutter to the porch area and fixing the roof and I don't expect the house to settle anymore in that area.
Maybe a stupid question - if you can "somewhat conveniently" lift up the old decking, can you just lay shims along the tops of the joists and then put the decking back down?
The existing deck is 120 year old cedar plank flooring. Shimming 4” plank deck cedar would take 100s of hours and would alter the structural integrity. So that wasn’t an option.
Great method.
I have a one story house where the floor is crowned. Meaning, the perimeter of the floor has settled about 1" more than the center of the floor. My problem is that the exterior glass sliding door threshold is right at the same elevation as the high point in the middle of the floor. Meaning, I can't raise the floor as much as you did.
I would totally use your method if I could raise as much as I wanted. I think leveling compound is in my future. :-/
For me, I was replacing all interior and exterior doors, so I didn’t have this issue. You could either reinstall the door one inch higher or make a depressed area in front of the doorway. If it were me, I might consider raising the door to accommodate the new level floor.
Thanks for watching!
Ive watched a few videos on this.
yours starts out a little
confusing but then really makes sense. Inhave a small bathroom I need to level to match a finished floor. Im figuring once i get the screw heights marked out to be level with the adjacent floor, Ill just subtract the width of the new subfloor and mark accordingly on the sleepers. does this make sense
I think you have the right idea. But I set my screw heads at the height of the sleepers where the underside of the sheet decking would be. No subtracting necessary. 💪👍
I bought a condo which I never noticed the dips because it had carpet and I wanted to switch to laminate flooring. But with the dips the installation didn’t come out good so now I’m starting from 0 looking for ways to level it. Do you think this method would hold up with laminate or going back to carpet is my best option?
I will be doing both over mine. I plan to do laminate in the living areas and baths and carpet in the bedrooms. A wood subfloor is common. Laminate floors are flexible - it should be find. Ceramic tile is another story though. That requires rigid cement board underlayment when installing it over wood floor systems. Hope this helps and good luck with your project. Welcome to the channel!!!
Thank you for a great video. I do have a question. In case floor is uneven due to root / wood worms, and even assuming you take care of the wood worm problem, won't the old floor sink more? (if continue to root) and make the new deck above it uneven as well with time?. Thank you.
If the insect problem is treated, the wood should be fine so long as it doesn’t crumble in your hand. Use a hammer to test the softness of the wood. If it crumbles or splits, replace it first. If the floor joists are sagging, the will need to be reinforced by sister-in-law new wood onto it to stiffen those. Once the structure is solid and stable, then level the floors. The new floor deck you install while leveling will stiffen everything up considerably but it will add more weight so make sure you structure is solid!
i get the aplication. but wouldent it be simpler to just pull the sub floor add bords to existing joist and lv it that way?
Not sure if that is simpler. Plus doing that you are modifying the structural diaphragm in the floor.
We are also living in the house. Wasn’t really an option for us.
Thank you so much for this video (and all of your others). You prob wont see or respond to this comment and question before I finish the work on my kitchen remodel, but worth a try.
Im doing a kitchen remodel on a small 100 year old cottage. There is a 2 inch difference between the left and the right side of the kitchen. I am renting from friends and they do not want to do a bigger structural fix, but are willing to pay for all of the material if I am willing to do the labor of the remodel. In any event, I didnt want to use self leveling concrete as it would be both expensive, and more importantly would add a significant amount of weight to a floor that Im not certain could support it. Was really pleased to find your approach. I only have 2 questions for you:
1- the existing floor of the kitchen has 2 levels of plywood--the original and a newer chip board. Both are still solid. If I were not exact and did not manage to screw the sleepers directly into the joists, would that be a significant problem? I.e, if the sleepers were screwed into the subfloor only, is that OK?
2- when cutting out the sleepers, do you think a circular saw would do the trick?
Thanks so much! Really appreciated you.
It probably is okay to screw into the deck only if you also use construction glue such as liquid nails… otherwise the screws will loose grip and tear out over time and will squeak. I used a small 4” hand held circular saw to rip the sleepers. A jigsaw will work too but takes longer. Good luck with your project
Hi great video
I just have one concern , I see you put the sleepers perpendicular to the joist direction , would it be structurally wise to do that , i mean distributing the load ?
In the video, I left the original floor board deck in place. Adding the sleepers perpendicular along with the second layer of deck just creates additional rigidity of the entire system. The sleepers will not add any “structural” strength to the system. The existing joists are the primary structure. What we are doing here is just leveling and adding some rigidity to the overall system which will reduce squeaking and bounce.
If you need to reinforce structurally the joists, you will need to sister joist them. I have a separate video on this. Check it out
Seems like it would be easier to just pull up the sub-floor, cut strips off 2x4s (or plywood) to the right level and secure them to the tops of the joists. Then lay the sub floor back on top of that. That way you have a level floor and no gap underneath. The gap is going to give you an echo when you walk across the floor unless you insulate it.
Thanks for watching! Shimming the top of the joists is certainly one way to level a floor and I would definitely recommend this if your floor joists are damaged, worn or sagging or in need of reinforcement. In my case, the structural state of the floor joists is adequate and my existing floor deck is 3/4” plank cedar which is an excellent deck material and resistant to moisture rot from the damp crawl space and basement below. I desired to leave this in place and adding a 2nd layer of deck has stiffened the floor considerably and reduced a good portion of the bounce in the floor. Putting a vapor barrier between the layers has nearly eliminated the moisture, must and insect issues from below as well. The airspace will also add some thermal value too. Plus an overlay deck is easier (no tear out) and safer (especially since we’re living in the house with young kids). I have not noticed any echo issues or excessive sound problems. If this is a concern, I would recommend a carpet finish with a good sound rated padding or if laminate is preferred, use a sound dampening underlay material. One other thing to note, if you can’t tolerate a little bit of hollowness and bounce in your floors, don’t buy an old house with 2x6 floor joists. Stick with concrete floors (slab on grade). But for me...I think a little bit of thump under my step adds to the vintage charm of the home and gives it character.
Would it be easier to sister new joists next to the warped old joists? Vs your idea of adding to the top
@@johnkim1656 not super easy, but yeah that method would be ideal if your space is fully gutted
As a structural engineer, I agree with building up the joists. I need to level a floor in an apt over a garage and my plan was to build up the joists. I agree with you about having the space under the floor. I didn’t like that idea.
@@RundownReborn I had no idea my old home (which is not on concrete,slab on grade) with 2x6 floor joists had "hollowness and bounce in floor" was actually not a structure issue. I asumed the sub floor was toast. The floor joist below look good. nice too learn something new at 42 yr old.
Won't the floor continue to sag from bad joists if you don't fix the underlying cause?
Yes, but my floor wasn’t sagging, it was tilted due to foundation settling. That was fixed prior to me buying the property.
Thank you so much! This is very helpful! I have a question. I would like to use your method to level my kitchen floor, however I am worried that by the time I add 3/4 inch sub floor and then laminate flooring on top, the height difference between my living room floor and kitchen floor will be too significant (possibly over a one inch gap). Do you have any advice for this?
In this case you are either going to need a transition strip between the different finishes or level the adjacent room too. Or remove the existing subfloor in the kitchen to bring the floor lower.
If the only transition place is a doorway, I recommend to slope the threshold there between the rooms. If the rooms are open to each other, a more substantial solution is needed.
Thank you for posting this clip
You are very welcome. Thanks for watching!!!
brilliant!
Thanks!!!
Hi, thanks for the informative and concise video! Your method seems like a tractable and efficient solution. Our neighbors implemented something similar and are very satisfied.
I'm curious if you could offer me a bit of advice. Our structural engineer confirmed that our 90-yo house is in good structural condition but underwent massive settling decades ago. The engineer is quite certain it's stable now because the old paint, drywall, etc are intact. However, the settlement is truly massive -- for example, about 7 inches over the 13-foot width of our living room. It would be nice to get the floors closer to level, but clearly we're not going to get very close with 2x4s. Would it be insane to implement your method with thicker pieces of wood and some cross-supports? At some point, the screws would get extremely long... Curious if you have any ideas :)
Thanks a lot!
Thanks for watching! If you have had a licensed structural engineer inspect your house - I would trust his/her opinion. He refers to the plaster being a clue because if there was significant structural framing compromised - you would see plaster falling off of the walls or serious cracks in it. 7 inches of settlement is significant but not unheard of. Usually settlement is not an issue with the house or the weight but instead the soil. Soft soil conditions can cause foundations to settle. Is that area around that part of the house properly drained? Does it have gutters or was it missing gutters for a significant amount of time? What caused the house to sink into the ground? Solving that problem will stop the settlement. Proper drainage of water away from the house is usually the solution. At 7 inches of settlement - I would consider calling a foundation repair contractor and get an estimate on raising the house some in that area before spending money on the floors. Hope this helps you.
@@RundownReborn Thanks so much!
It does seem to be an issue with the soil or the height of the water table -- the neighboring houses are all visibly out of level, too. According to the city's documentation, it seems that this area used to be prone to flooding due to poor engineering on the city's part. That's about all we know.
The drainage situation is okay-ish but currently under improvement! We're re-doing the gutters, touching up the grading, foundation maintenance, etc. We'll observe the situation for a while after the updates are complete before we do anything exciting.
I'm glad to hear our issue isn't unheard of! Our engineer recommended cosmetic fixes like leveling the floors. His opinion is that while the house is structurally sound now, there's no guarantee it will remain structurally sound if we raise it even part of the 14 inches it has tilted. He surmises it's been in this orientation for several decades. We're just having a little trouble finding leveling methods that can be extended to a 7-inch drop.
Thanks again :)
@@madistoddard7530 yes, 7 inches is quite a bit of distance. If it’s in only one area of the house, I would probably investigate jacking up the house there and resetting it to the foundation. Then you can always use some perforated drain tiles around the perimeter outside to help keep the soil dry.
this looks promising. My floors are uneven and I actually had a contractor come in to level it that made a complete mess of the whole thing. He used ashpalt shingles and two separate sheets of 1/2 plywood laying ashphalt in between the original Pine T&G decking and the first layer of plywood as well as more ashpalt shingles between the 1st. layer of plywood and the second. Both layers of plywood are not T&G. What I have been left with is a still unlevel, spongy mess that has PL 400 glue in some places and likely thousands of screws everywhere. Part of the reason he used as much product as he did was because he was trying to raise the level of my floor to my new kitchen tile (even though I told him I didn't mind the small step up). I've been searching everywhere for some good advice and your video looks like it might just do the trick. So my plan is to rip it all up, try to remove as much of the PL as I can and start over using a single layer of 3/4 ply and your method. I do have one question though. In the video you showed close ups of the sleepers that showed gaps inbetween them and your decking. Didn't that translate into some uneveness when you secured the decking at each screw point?
Wow, what a story. I would definitely recommend at least 5/8" at the minimum (not 1/2") but 3/4" T&G is best. That thickness provides tremendous stiffness to the system that you won't get with 1/2". Trying to get that old plywood up that has been glued is going to be a big chore - especially if the glue is over the lower sandwiched screws. Trying to find the screws can be difficult.
Also - I'm not sure what gaps in the sleepers you are referring to in the video but if you do have those - you can always shim the bottom side if necessary (perhaps with some of those leftover shingles - LOL). I recommend that as you set the sleepers in place - continue to check for level with adjacent sleepers and screws to be sure that your deck plane is as level as possible. Check out this video for another look at leveling a floor: ruclips.net/video/fv9PZcCu_0k/видео.html
I suggest that you do all the screw leveling first for the entire floor and base everything off of your kitchen floor connection. Be sure to put a sleeper down along the seam between the different floor so that you won't get separation or unevenness at the transition doorway and/or connection. If your sleepers are parallel to the seam - start at the seam and work your way out. If they are perpendicular - start at the center and work to the sides. If you can get your levelness within 1/8" you will probably never notice it underfoot.
Good luck with your project and thanks for watching!
@@RundownReborn Good advice. Thanks. Ya the gap I was talking about was inbetween the points made by the screws. I do kind of expect that because my floor in slightly wavy in some areas so ya, I will likely need to do some shimming.. Another couple of questions. I myself have a small 3 inch dremel saw which I don't think will do. Unfortunately the local Home Depot doesn't have any 4 inch saws (weird right?) so I"m wondering if you can disclose the brand you used so I can search for it online. Also, did you put any glue down under your sleepers and what type of flooring are you planning on putting down over the sleepers? I'll be putting down high end engineered Hardwood. I plan on starting after the Holiday. I'm a bit nervous about glue residue. do you have any recommendations on products to use to soften it up so I can scrape it off?
To find a saw - just google a 4" circular saw or a 4 1/2" circular saw. I found several available online and the 4 1/2" size is more prevalent. If I were to buy again - I think I would buy a 4 1/2" as the 4" sized saw blade is hard to find replacements for. I bought the cheapest one available at Menard's at the time. It feels a little under powered. I have found that this saw really comes in handy. It might be worth buying a name brand saw like Dewalt. Home Depot has them available for around $100 when they are on sale. They cost a little more but will have a stronger motor. A cordless one would be handy too. It's a really handy saw for around the house and much easier to work with than a larger 6" or 8" saw in many cases.
Regarding the floor - I did not use any glue in my floor. It is not a bad idea to do so - but I didn't to save time and money. The floor material I put onto the sleepers was 7/8" T&G OSB board. This is heavy and sturdy and you won't get "waviness" with that thickness. 7/8" thick sheet material doesn't bend. On top of that subfloor, you can put any finish floor that you like (ie: carpet, laminate, hard wood, etc.).
As far as tricks to getting wood glue up - I really don't have any suggestions other than saws, flat bars, floor scrapers, muscle and sweat. I've never tried it in this application but an oscillating saw might be helpful to cut in between the layers some - if you can work it in there.
Sad story,
Hope the fix goes well.
Another solution is using a laser level and scribes if you have access to laser.
I built a finished room out of patio cover area.
My floor went about 5" out of level at 10' (concrete).
First I also drew/snapped reference lines exactly to where joists would end up.
Then I set up an arbitrary control line with laser. This was to level the height of new floor with old floor from house.
I set up pressure treated 2x6 on shim stacks from highest point of floor.
After that I scribed a line from floor to 2x6.
Because the 2x6 sagged/bowed I used Fast Cap 3rd hand poles to press 2x6 down against ceiling to force them tight to shims.
I hope some of this might help, just sharing my experience :)
Remove the decking. Find the highest point with a laser level. Sister 2x6s. Lay decking and screw.
This task can be done by scribing the sleepers to the floor instead of measuring. Given the size of the room I'd be inclined to first put sleepers along the short sides of the room that are level to each other and at the height needed to match the floor in the other room. Then install a sleeper at a floor joist point at about half the length of the room making it level with the end two. Mark the tops of all three sleepers for 16" on-center spacing. To fill in the field lay a "new" sleeper from the end sleeper to the center sleeper at the marked 16" locations and put an "T" on top of it to denote the top. Make a wood block to use as a scribing guide--a 10" piece of 2x4 works! As you slide the block along the floor hold a pencil against the top of it and the side of the "new" sleeper to mark the sleeper thickness. Mark the ends of the "new" sleeper to fit between the installed sleepers. Cut the marked sleeper to length and then along the line with waste side being the part below the scribed line, i.e., the saw kerf should be in the waste (the bottom part of the sleeper stock) not in the sleeper. The part marked with the "T" becomes the sleeper. This is a lot faster method that eliminates all the screws, the measuring, risk of measuring error, and connecting dots.
After showing them how, I had my 8 and 10 year old sons scribe the sleepers for a 16' x 24' room. I checked the first one and it was perfect... I didn't check any more I simply cut what they marked.
If you want to get "perfect" sleepers run the sleepers through a jointer to straighten one edge. Then run them through a table saw or thickness planner to make the other edge parallel to the first. If you do this make your scribing block the same width as the resulting stock. They may warp after you scribe and cut them but they will straighten out when you screw them down! After I had the floor done I used it as a reference surface to level and flattened the ceiling!
Thanks for the suggestion!!!
Just talked to a structural engineer about this method, he didn't recommend it all not because the new 3/4" plywood will add extra weight to the foundation. It will eventually break it. Just jack up the beams under the subfloor, enhance them, and install new plywood if needed.
Structural engineers are notoriously conservative. The foundation won’t fail for 200 years.
If 2 lbs. per square foot causes the foundation to fail you have a lot more problems than a uneven floor!
Yea thats bananas. If a sheet of plywood fails you're Foundation, you have much larger issues than a floor. Plywoods over a 4x8 sheet is lighter than you standing there.....
How are you compensating for an inconsistent slope? Are you shimming underneath when there's a gap and sanding the floor or the shim when there's a 'high spot' on the overall downward slope. Is the cut wavy or just downward? If that makes sense...I'm dealing with an unlevel floor myself. Overall, it's not that off, maybe a a quarter inch or 3/16 at most, but there's points along the way that aren't straight downhill like a ramp. At some points, it's1/8 off. At others, it's 1/4, then 3/16, then back to 1/8, then 3/16 again. Etcetera. How are you dealing with that with the cut or some other means? I'm a DIYer who's never done this. The wavy off level thing is the result of my mistake, which I can't walk back at this point.
My floors undulate as well. At the lowest point I'm over 2 inches that slopes upward to a high point near the center of the house. The floor overall slopes one direction to the northeast corner but it is not a continuous slope. Mine too vary in depth up or down. Using the screws, I found the cut depths of my sleepers at the various points in the floor. Then I cut my sleepers to follow the contour of the depths where it rests. The cut goes up and down to follow the floor so the top is level (or near level). I'm not perfectly level and I gave myself up to an 1/8" to a 1/4" of tolerance. That amount of waviness is virtually undetectable underfoot in my opinion. But it will be a little noticeable with four legged furniture and appliances like refrigerators.
So I have same sloping and wavy issue. My floor has the original plank floor with a T&G plank style decking. Would I need to remove that decking first before adding a new plywood subfloor using your method?
Hi Amadeus. Thanks for watching!
You can do either - but I would say that it all depends on how much you have to level. The floors I am doing - I am leveling the entire house so I added the new level floor deck on top of the old floor deck. If you are trying to level a room and you don't want an uneven transition to the next room - you may need to pull up the old decking - so the new decking will be flush with the adjacent floor deck in the next room. If you do this - just level the top of the existing joists with the same methods and attach the sleeper wedge blocks along the top of each floor joist to provide the level screw pad for setting new decking onto. Then attach the new OSB deck to the top of those level wedges. Be sure to inspect the joists for any rot or weakness and sister joist any spots that may be compromised. Good luck with your project. Hope the video was helpful.
@@RundownReborn So it won't be too much weight with the original sloping floor boards plus a wavy decking, the new level osb decking and vinyl flooring? 3 levels of wood plus vinyl. I have a finished basement underneath not a crawl space
I promise you that the live loads (chairs, sofas, pianos, etc) will be much greater than adding a layer of deck sheeting.
A square foot of deck sheeting is maybe 5 pounds. How much do you weigh standing on 1 foot in the same spot? See the difference? The sheeting weight is spread out evenly. It won’t be a problem. Concern yourself more with making sure you have a level and smooth floor with clean transitions to adjacent rooms.
@@RundownReborn Which type of screw did you use?
Hello I'm doing this in my kitchen. Its 2 and a half inches lower on one side. There's multiple layers of old subfloor and laminate flooring so I'm not going to tear it up but add on top of it. What thickness of plywood did you use? Thank you.
You should be okay going over the old flooring. Just be sure you know where the old structural joists are so you can tie into them - otherwise the floor will squeak. I used 23/32 t&g osb decking. Nominal thickness is 3/4”. Good luck on your project and thanks for watching!!!
Part 2 of the video goes into more detail about installing the decking. >>> DIY Easiest Way To Level An Old Wood Floor Using Only Screws, Wood and A Level (Part 2 of 2)
what about the gap of space between the sundeck and the joist? did you put shims at least underneath those screws? What about over the years when you're walking about and the floor continues to sink? I don't get it bro. I think there are some flaws here.
The floor will always flex some. The house is over 100 years old. The sagging is finished for the most part. The added deck on top (3/4" thick) has added considerable rigidity to the floor diaphragm. I don't expect anymore sag to occur. As for continued settlement of the foundation (which causes tilt) - that too has been remedied in other ways through foundation reinforcements and proper perimeter drainage. The gap of space between the original deck and the new deck varies from zero to about 1.5". That is an airspace with a vapor barrier. It won't affect structural performance. I used long 2.5 to 3 inch screws at 12" o.c. They have good grip depth to the joists underneath.
Excellent thank you. Exactly what I need to know but on a much smaller scale, my garden shed 👍
Good luck. Post a before and after pic on Facebook @rundownreborn
How do you factor in the thickness of the plywood when leveling to the top of the existing floor in the other room. Wouldn't the end product be 3/4 to 5/8 inches higher than the floor that you are trying to level to?
chagob - he’s working from top of floor joist to top of new floor joist
Michael is right. I was leveling to the top of the sleepers in the adjacent room - not to the top of the deck sheet.
Do you subtract the thickness of the subfloor from the shims you cut? Otherwise the shims themselves will be level with the subfloor you leveled from, correct?
Yes. You will need to allow for the thickness of the deck sheeting - especially if you are tying into an existing floor surface. The tops of my screws in the video is where the BOTTOM of the deck sheeting sets. Hope this clears things up for you. Thanks for watching!
I’m glad I’m not the only one who uses sidewalk chalk and kids seats in their job. 😅
😆💪👍
You had the floor joists exposed- why not screw/glue a 2x4 to the floor joist making the 2x4 level and then screw subfloor down to a level surface. Seems alot easier.
Possibly. But I only had them exposed in that room because I had some rot to fix. The rest of the house was not exposed
So when you draw the lines, don’t you get sharp corners where the differences between the 2 points is really bad? And is the wood not splitting without predrilling?
The lines aren’t perfect but close enough. And sure the wood splits sometimes but rarely and it really isn’t an issue. The sleepers are 100% compression load. They are dead blocks so they aren’t needed for tensile strength. The screws are just there to hold them in place until the deck is down and to tie them into the floor structure.
@@RundownReborn thanka! My floor upstairs is really bad but instead of those big planks you hem on them mine exists of just a bunch of smaller planks. Might try this though because my desk chair is rolling away from my desk now. Love your videos btw! Already watched alot of them in like 3 days haha. Do you have one about how much time you spend on cleaning everyrhing after you were done lol? Great idea about those lists. I just move and took your “advise” made a list and at least cross off 1 thing (they are way more simple stuff for now) every day. Kinda helps everything going. I would love to see you go in depth and explain just a little more from time to time.
@@RoyD2 thank you so much Roy. It’s wonderful to hear the videos are resonating with you. Clean is ongoing. Sometimes it takes a whole day… especially during drywall and even longer with demo.
And thank you for the suggestions. I will continue to try and refine the content. Sometimes I go into depth… check out the video about why I enter into the dining room.
Thanks for watching!!! 💪👍🙏
ARCHITECT EXPLAINS: Why His Front Door Enters The Dining Room
ruclips.net/video/9crIp0dDskk/видео.html
@@RundownReborn so what would you advise for a circle saw now that you are more experienced with the equipment? I am gonna need one to try this. I already own a bunch of makita drills so my preference would be makita, but the circles saws I find look like they are more made for just cutting straight while yours looks more flexible.
@@RoyD2 I just went to the store and bought the cheapest 4 inch saw on the shelf. Dont use a jigsaw… it takes forever this way. But the little 4-4.5 inch saws are easy to steer down the board.
If the low spot on my floor is in front of a door, I assume I would have to put a new door in, right?
If you are raising the floor, you would need to raise the door too. You might not need a new door, you would just need to raise the header up above the opening. It’s not hard… but might take some time and will be a little messy.
Wouldn't it be better to follow the old joists instead of perpendicular or doesn't it matter?
Either is fine. I went perpendicular so the diaphragm would stiffen more
Great content, good cinematography and editing and your channel will skyrocket! Thank you
Thanks so much. Welcome to my channel.
What causes floors to sag and become uneven? Isn’t it dangerous to build on top of bent joists?
The joists aren’t bent. They are tilted. The corner of the house settled about 2 inches over the past 120 years.
This is a bandaid handyman solution. The problem is usually rotted stumps. When will you replace those?…
The cause was poor drainage causing soft soils and foundation settlement. That was resolved prior to floor leveling
For anyone attempting this... don't forget a level has a human error factor when reading the bubble.... a laser is way better.
Thanks for the tip
Flat or level? Which is better and easier?
Flat == level! No?
Eye protection, hand protection always tuck in loose clothing.
PPE is an understatement for the DIYer..
That voice.. are you Wilson’s brother from Home Improvement?
Absolutely on the PPE. As for Wilson...if you say so. :)
You’re a giant. You make that chair look really small.
Ha ha. The little chair comes in handy tho when I’m working on the floor.
I don’t envy you 🌔living in the house while remodeling is extremely difficult
Indeed it is.
I wish my subfloor was this easy to lift up! I pulled up on sheet and there's 4 or 5 older layers to go through! top subfloor is screwed into an older 1/4" plywood subfloor, which is on top of 3 or 4 layers of linoleum which is on top of 1x4 planks which are finally attached to the joists. What a nightmare
Holy moly. Sounds like you have a very big challenge ahead of you on the tear out. Hope my video helps tho once you are ready to start leveling!