Wow ... fantastic! We live just an hour and a half from Turin ...4mn from Chambéry France 👋 Very few people know, actually, HOW qualified these original Sturp scientists were...I didn t know either ; until I bought John Heller ' s excellent " report on the shroud of Turin " These people were top un their respective fields, and that is not emphasized enough. Ian Wilson's book " The shroud " is excellent as far as the history of the Shroud goes... Always a pleasure❤
Why? It's just a piece of clothing. I'm a Christian, I believe that Jesus is the messiah and died for my sins and rose but it's just a burial shroud. I really want to know what the big deal is.
Father Edward wuenschel,, Paul Vignon,Father Adam Otterbein,,Cardinal Spellman,are the 20th century heroes of exposing America to the Shroud of Turin.Before the STURP study in 1980’s
A good read I found in 2010 called “ the truth about the shroud of Turin” by Robert Wilcox.especially explaining the early 20 th century in America and it’s exploding influence despite the skeptics
What we have with the gospel accounts is secondary evidence. Copies of witness statements copied by scribes over the centuries. Secondary Evidence is admissible in the absence of the primary Evidence. There are many tertiary sources that support the secondary evidence of the gospels. What we have with the shroud is real evidence of a judicial crucifixion and it matches the gospel accounts. It also matches the promise made to Adam and Eve and to all of their descendants who also honor the promise that was made and clearly kept.
How can our own funerals be connected to those of Christ, especially our hope in the resurrection, after all our sufferings and carrying of our crosses on Earth?
Who is “worshiping” it? Certainly not me or anybody I’ve ever spoken with. It might be that you’re mixing up “veneration” with worship, which is a pretty common mistake, to be fair. It’s a very important distinction, and I’m actually planning on talking about that very topic with Martha May in the not too distant future, so stay tuned!
You might try this statement in reverse as it would be equally valid, yet probably more likely: the problem is that if the shroud is real or not people will want to disbelieve and ignore it. It’s kind of a glass is either half empty or half full deal. Which camp are you in? If you’re not sure, a good thing to try is to count blessings, then pretty quickly you might find how full your glass is. Then take another look at the shroud and really reflect on the possibility that this fellow perhaps is the one pouring water into yours and everyone else’s glass.
I would apply Romans 1 : 20 if someone mistakenly worships anything in creation. Just as the heavens declare the glory of God as described in Psalm 19:1, the shroud is also a declaration of God's glory. I look at the shroud as similar to the Ark of the Covenant. A token of an honored relationship. A very important relationship.
I can’t agree on the comment “if this is true, then all the things in the Gospel are true”. I have come from an agnostic view to the point of being scientifically convinced of the Shroud and consequently the gospel narratives of the crucifixion. From that I have been exploring what else can be reasonably viewed as accurate/authentic, Paul’s letters being a case in point. I am a scientist so I am very careful to not go all in on circumstantial and associated evidence as reasonable fact.
In the science applied to the laws of evidence the phrase "totality of circumstances" is used to produce an "opinion". Witness statements like the ones recorded in the gospels serve as "secondary evidence" since they are copies made over the centuries by scribes. Secondary evidence is acceptable when primary evidence is not available. The shroud serves as "real evidence" showing that a judicial crucifixion was performed on a man matching the descriptions in the gospel accounts. Laws of evidence are used everyday in laboratories. Scientists read peer reviewed papers and develop hypotheses that can be examined in a lab. Lab results can be applied in judicial science to provide reasonable facts in the "totality of circumstances" for a "legal opinion". Of course judges can exclude evidence if they want. It might help the defense or it might help the prosecution. In the court of public opinion, it is up to the individual to decide what the "totality of circumstances" is according to their personal rules of evidence. For me, the fact patterns are well established in the case of the shroud. I'm left wondering what exact frequencies and voltages were used to illuminate an animated body inside of a linen cloth. That's a stumper. Someone like Nikola Tesla may be the only one who could have something resembling an answer. The only power source documented that could help explain is documented in a patent titled "CRAFT USING AN INERTIAL MASS REDUCTION DEVICE".
When a Believer experiences The Shroud they fall on their knees in gratitude for it's PROOF OF PAYMENT for their sins. When a non-believer sees it they either become a believer or seek it's discredit with a fever-like passion. There is no middle ground once you experience the Shroud in person.
As Well as Declaration of Inheritance, a Holy Will and Testament of Grace and Righteousness From God The Father through Yeshua his Beloved Son, Christ Jesus. Amen😊
Wow ... fantastic! We live just an hour and a half from Turin ...4mn from Chambéry France 👋
Very few people know, actually, HOW qualified these original Sturp scientists were...I didn t know either ; until I bought John Heller ' s excellent " report on the shroud of Turin " These people were top un their respective fields, and that is not emphasized enough.
Ian Wilson's book " The shroud " is excellent as far as the history of the Shroud goes...
Always a pleasure❤
Wow!
I love talking about the shroud
Why? It's just a piece of clothing. I'm a Christian, I believe that Jesus is the messiah and died for my sins and rose but it's just a burial shroud. I really want to know what the big deal is.
Can’t wait!
That’s great having the young students knowing about a “ real” supernatural event which strikes a chord with children
Father Edward wuenschel,, Paul Vignon,Father Adam Otterbein,,Cardinal Spellman,are the 20th century heroes of exposing America to the Shroud of Turin.Before the STURP study in 1980’s
A good read I found in 2010 called “ the truth about the shroud of Turin” by Robert Wilcox.especially explaining the early 20 th century in America and it’s exploding influence despite the skeptics
What we have with the gospel accounts is secondary evidence. Copies of witness statements copied by scribes over the centuries. Secondary Evidence is admissible in the absence of the primary Evidence. There are many tertiary sources that support the secondary evidence of the gospels. What we have with the shroud is real evidence of a judicial crucifixion and it matches the gospel accounts. It also matches the promise made to Adam and Eve and to all of their descendants who also honor the promise that was made and clearly kept.
How can our own funerals be connected to those of Christ, especially our hope in the resurrection, after all our sufferings and carrying of our crosses on Earth?
Joe Rogan.
It is The Season. Now is the Time of Salvation.
Imagine!
The medieval shroud is
The major problem is that if the shroud is real or not people want to believe that it is and will worship it.
Who is “worshiping” it? Certainly not me or anybody I’ve ever spoken with. It might be that you’re mixing up “veneration” with worship, which is a pretty common mistake, to be fair. It’s a very important distinction, and I’m actually planning on talking about that very topic with Martha May in the not too distant future, so stay tuned!
You might try this statement in reverse as it would be equally valid, yet probably more likely: the problem is that if the shroud is real or not people will want to disbelieve and ignore it. It’s kind of a glass is either half empty or half full deal. Which camp are you in? If you’re not sure, a good thing to try is to count blessings, then pretty quickly you might find how full your glass is. Then take another look at the shroud and really reflect on the possibility that this fellow perhaps is the one pouring water into yours and everyone else’s glass.
I would apply Romans 1 : 20 if someone mistakenly worships anything in creation. Just as the heavens declare the glory of God as described in Psalm 19:1, the shroud is also a declaration of God's glory. I look at the shroud as similar to the Ark of the Covenant. A token of an honored relationship. A very important relationship.
I can’t agree on the comment “if this is true, then all the things in the Gospel are true”. I have come from an agnostic view to the point of being scientifically convinced of the Shroud and consequently the gospel narratives of the crucifixion. From that I have been exploring what else can be reasonably viewed as accurate/authentic, Paul’s letters being a case in point. I am a scientist so I am very careful to not go all in on circumstantial and associated evidence as reasonable fact.
In the science applied to the laws of evidence the phrase "totality of circumstances" is used to produce an "opinion". Witness statements like the ones recorded in the gospels serve as "secondary evidence" since they are copies made over the centuries by scribes. Secondary evidence is acceptable when primary evidence is not available. The shroud serves as "real evidence" showing that a judicial crucifixion was performed on a man matching the descriptions in the gospel accounts. Laws of evidence are used everyday in laboratories. Scientists read peer reviewed papers and develop hypotheses that can be examined in a lab. Lab results can be applied in judicial science to provide reasonable facts in the "totality of circumstances" for a "legal opinion". Of course judges can exclude evidence if they want. It might help the defense or it might help the prosecution. In the court of public opinion, it is up to the individual to decide what the "totality of circumstances" is according to their personal rules of evidence. For me, the fact patterns are well established in the case of the shroud. I'm left wondering what exact frequencies and voltages were used to illuminate an animated body inside of a linen cloth. That's a stumper. Someone like Nikola Tesla may be the only one who could have something resembling an answer. The only power source documented that could help explain is documented in a patent titled "CRAFT USING AN INERTIAL MASS REDUCTION DEVICE".
When a Believer experiences The Shroud they fall on their knees in gratitude for it's PROOF OF PAYMENT for their sins. When a non-believer sees it they either become a believer or seek it's discredit with a fever-like passion. There is no middle ground once you experience the Shroud in person.
As Well as Declaration of Inheritance, a Holy Will and Testament of Grace and Righteousness From God The Father through Yeshua his Beloved Son, Christ Jesus.
Amen😊