"The person who enjoys walking will go further than the person who is focused on the destination." I enjoy your content. It keeps me motivated in my Spanish learning journey
@@blubaylon yup not quite the same but similar concept that's why I can't be spoiled in movies or games because of its something cool then I just want to know how it gets to that point and if its something lame I want to see where it goes wrong
Once again, there I was, minding my own business and watching Dreaming Spanish when I get a notification that Matt has dropped another video. Sorry, Pablo. I’ll be back after I watch Matt’s video.
I have been thinking about learning English for quite a long time, but I have found that learning is useless. Grammar is boring. I hate learning the rules even though I naively thought I would learn English this way. I've wasted ten years at my desk with textbooks to no avail!!!! For me, it's listen, read, speak English out loud to myself at home, sometimes with a friend. Dictation helps too, but I enjoy it. I just want to do what I enjoy. This guy knows what he's talking about. He's right. I came across you by accident and I applaud you!!!! Thanks for this video and for confirming what I've been thinking for a long time. Katya from the Czech Republic
Great content as always. Recently I came across a tweet from Matt vs Japan and I think its maybe one of the most profound things I've read on language learning - to paraphrase he said that the method you use to learn a language does not determine how fast you learn a language - it determines how you will speak the language. This backs up my experience - I can pretty much tell how anyone who speaks English as an L2 has learned it (especially those who come from a non-European first language). I'm convinced that inputting may not be the 'fastest' way to learn, but if your aim is to be able to communicate comfortably in the language, its by far the best way.
On flash cards and their merits, I like making them from real life scenarios. Admittedly, Italian is not my strongest language nor my first “second language”, but I take a notebook with me everywhere I go and I take little notes here and there of unique words or phrases along with brief usage explanations. I don’t read the book regularly, but just writing down the words/phrases has helped tremendously. To reiterate, the notebook isn’t my focus but it helps to keep me focused on a given conversation as sometimes the mind tends to wander when in situations of nebulous comprehension. I also really like making sentence cards vs single word cards and doing so from a film or story I like a lot.
Flashcards are useful but only for the first 230 to 300 most common words. Orientation words (to, from, under, over, behind, in front, etc.) are incredibly useful. And they appear in nearly every sentence. With a focused list, it takes a couple minutes a day to review, and you can go back to reading.
Making language learning fun is very important in order to make it a habit. I used to do reading and flashcards but recently ditched them cause I found doing them a bit boring. Now I purely focus on reading and CI.
On flashcards, I finished the Japanese core 2k and then moved on to the core 2k/6k. For quite a while I felt like it was pretty useful, but I have recently been making my own flashcards using dialogue from The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and I have noticed a massive difference in how much I retain (I use DeepL to translate it into English even though I know it isn't perfect, it is still good enough.) I have to say, since I am making cards for most lines of dialogue, it feels really easy to learn from these since they are all connected to a wider story that I am interested in and it never feels like a slog to get through them. Also, I don't mean to badmouth the core 2k decks, they have nice audio by natives and example sentences for each word, but I think I definitely spent too much time worrying about flashcards instead of focusing on immersion. Though, to be fair, I think I did put myself off from immersion when I had tried it right when I started learning Japanese and set myself up for failure (so, I am sure my bad impression on immersion probably stems from that.) Gracias por el video Matt! Conmigo tienes un fan de Puerto Rico.
I tried to finish the 2k deck for 2 years and never got past 1000 words because I realize I’m spending 30min-1hr and still struggle to recognize the words in dialogue for TV or in reading. It probably helped a bit but my goal is listening comprehension and moderate reading ability so doesn’t make sense anymore to do any decks. I just use Yomichan or just read now. So much more enjoyable for sure
@@burgular_the @burgular_the I get that, and to be honest, I also struggled with a lot of the cards when they were new. I ended up setting a limit of 3 attempts, and if I get them all wrong I would just click on "good" and pass it on to the next day. Either way, I think I made the mistake of having flashcards as my main focus for way too long. Anyway, good luck on your studies homie
Great content! Just discovered you and I've done the same throughout the years, normally I buy some kids book, then move on to comics, ideally while having a course that has a story. For what I've seen, typically there is content like this with a main character that arrives in the target language's country and you follow up in all the daily activities that one would have and it makes it also like one big story so it's hard to get bored. Another way also to improve speaking is doing it alone, being full conversations or sometimes when walking and making up stories. I sound mental lol but it has helped me a lot when I didn't have natives/couldn't afford courses/was in a rural area and couldn't attend events like going to a bar to swap languages. De cualquier manera, genial el video, saludos desde España! (aunque te recomiendo más aprender mi acento argentino jajaj)
I agree with you in general. Two factors not addressed. 1. Sometimes you need to reach fluency by a certain date at which time, flash cards or vocab lists become essential for a while. 2. Spanish is easy to fake for an English speaker. But the more distant a language, the greater the minimum vocabulary list. And one unspoken thing in your talk is that language need to be learned or acquired, not poured into one's head by a teacher. Iow, a student must be active, not passive. Reading and talking/listening in conversations are active, sitting through lessons is passive. People usually think of language acquisition like math instruction, i.e., the teacher explains everything, checks that you understood the explanation, and voila, you have learned a language.
I'm not saying don't to flashcards etc, they're just not for me. With regard to passive/ active, I'm not talking about classroom study at all. For adult learners it is largely independent learning for which I advocate acquisition over explicating classroom learning. The methods vary depending on the learner. You have to do what you enjoy doing. That doesn't have to be study or hard, but in that sense it is active
@@matt_brooks-green Nice to see a reply by the author. 1. Flashcards. I prefer a list as it is easier to use but does have the disadvantage of anticipation. I have found no other way to get 150 new words a week into my head. There is, however, a trick to using them. Cold memorisation is very difficult and context in a list is irrelevant. Therefore, you have to connect the new word to something you already know, like the Lithuanian aciu (ah' choo - thank you) with 'at you'. 2. A polyglot, even a failed one like me, is comfortable finding their own path. Most people do not feel that level of comfort and rely on outside materials, whether that be a classroom, app, or textbook. And that is one of the main reasons I hear why people are not interested in learning a language. 'I cannot do it on my own; someone needs to take my hand and lead me through the process.' But the real problem is that learning a language, even an easy one like Lithuanian, is a lot of work. And they want they want the 'instructor' to do the work for them. Now if you just want a tourist level of vocabulary, that is not that hard to achieve. But to move to a country where your native language is not spoken and work for the natives, you need thousands of words, not hundreds, and you need them now, when the job opening exists, not in 10 years when the language courses (formal in a classroom or informal at home) end. And that level of language is rarely taught anywhere; you have to teach yourself. 3. Do what you enjoy. 100% agree. I would go even further. If you enjoy reading and are going to read a book, read a great book that you can't put down, not just any book to say you read one. Most of the foreigners I know of who have learned Lithuanian have a Lithuanian partner. So love, not work or recreation, seems to be the primary motivator.
I've been doing this to learn Chinese for 12 days now, it's great. Really not hard to do, I just watch some quick videos. I've also been doing this with English input for 9 years. It truly just works, It's just this easy thing you get the habit of doing and you're just immensly glad you did looking back on it !
I agree with Matt. For me, when i started learning Spanish i tried doing it with just CI but I found it ball achingly slow. Also, I'm a bit of a grammar nerd so i actually enjoy explicitly learning about the mechanics of a language, although i totally understand why many people would be bored to tears doing that. This is a great video. I like and would recommend the Dreaming Spanish videos but i just can't swallow Pablo's unscientific anecdotal claims about not reading until you've reached X amount of hours etc. Just find what's fun and do that for as long as it stays fun to do. 😊
Yeah, do what you enjoy. I stopped reading for a period when I started DS. I'm not sure the benefit it has had to my Spanish. There is certainly evidence in favour of reading as a major way to acquire vocabulary. I also like doing it when I have time which is the most important thing. Thanks for checking out the video! 😊
I absolutely hate flashcards, too. I’m kind of starting to wonder though if maybe I should make a few flashcards on those words that come up again and again that I just never remember but my usual pattern as I make flashcards, and then forget about them, and never look at them again.
I know. I've given up on them. I just read every day now. It's more enjoyable and I'm more likely to keep up the habit. With flashcards I always had to force myself to do them and it ends up taking up a lot of my day when I could just read something interesting instead. That said, I might have to do them again when I return to Chinese! 😅
@@matt_brooks-green i found vocabulary list are helpful for absolute beginner level, if you just starting learning language. Just for 500-1000 basic word list like "in, on, study, read". Once i memorize all the words, i stepped up my game with a lot of input.
My problem with the comprehensible input learners is the "extremist" approach of "never speak a word because you're mouth will contort and never speak a mispronounced word correctly again". I genuinely don't know of anyone who has achieved a very high level inn a language without ANY deliberate practice. Personally I believe there has to be a balance of SOME deliberate practice (flashcards, glance grammar structures, learn the scrit if your language has a different scrit) along with a load of input. At some stage, you'll hit a barrier and you will HAVE TO speak to improve. This is from my experience off leaarning Mandarin. Good content, man. Keep it up!
There are certainly examples in the literature (Stephen Krashen has lots of anecdotes) of people who have learned languages to a very high degree without 'deliberate' learning. Go to Africa or India and you'll find millions of people who have learned additional languages this way. In pre-internet days I've met people in Asia who spoke near perfect English simply from absorbing media (although most had some 'base' from school learning) without ever leaving their home towns. Whether they are making things harder for themselves or not is the big question. I'd love to see some long term comparative studies into it, but nobody seems to have done this.
@@philipdavis7521 I guess that's the question then ultimately. Does a lack of deliberate practice and skill building make it harder? This debate has been ongoing since before Krashen and it's remarkable that there aren't more studies on it.
@@dwaalling95 Beniko Mason (a Krashen inspired L2 academic in Japan) has lots of interesting links in her website, although many of the references are beyond a paywall (she runs teaching courses for input based teachers). She claims that the research points towards early output or 'active' learning as being counterproductive, but there is always a danger of selective use of studies in such a diverse field.
Selective use of studies and biased assessment methods permeate the field. The assessments seem to always be discrete grammar tests. So of course explicit learning /test prep will always make it look like that is “better”but better on the test does not mean more proficient in communication….
What comprehensible input resources did you use for Chinese? I think comprehensible input in certain languages is easy to find. Spanish, Portuguese and French for me was fairly stress free. Finding good Mandarin resources to read is really difficult. It’s either too difficult or extremely boring!
DO you rekon it would be a good idea to mooch about using this method in 2 languages at once... for example.. im learning kanji in japanese atm but could learn another language alongside while i learn kanji....
So if you had to put the novice's language learning technique (process?) (steps?) into a list AT GUN POINT! What would that list look like? Might it be something like: 1. Learn pre-school (elementary school?) level grammar. 2. As soon as you are comfortable with this level, consume ENJOYABLE & CONTEXTUAL comprehensible content/input at this (pre-school/elementary) level. 3. As soon as you feel comfortable with this comprehensible media (e.g. kids shows?), move on to the next school grade level, maybe grade 4-7? 4. Once you're comfortable with school grade level 4-7, progressively work your way up to high school level content? 5. Once comfortable with high school level content, move on to college (adult) level content? 5. Decide whether you're ready to start speaking. I'm very step oriented, so I'd really appreciate a concrete list 🤗.
I’ve been a fan for a while, Matt. And I do find that this method is working for my life and my schedule. But I feel like I need to get a sense of your level of Spanish. I’d rather learn a language slowly and lazily than 5hrs/day for 6 months. But how well does it work? I’d estimate you’re close to 800-900 hours of comprehensible input in Spanish. So the question is, how’s your output?
Isle of Tenerife, Spain, Africa. Well done, Matt. Another excellent video, pretty much explaining how I intend to now start learning Frisian. A technical question: If you had to choose, which variety of Spanish would you most like to one day become completely fluent and proficient in? Best wishes, Patchy. (P.S.: You do have to choose, or it will never happen.)
The issue I’m having with Spanish at the moment is finding comprehensible input that I can listen to without video. My level is on the cusp of A1-A2 and I find stuff at my level on Dreaming Spanish, my main platform for input, to be quite draining, while the stuff I can understand comfortably is really dull (because it’s for very beginners). If you have any suggestions for beginner-friendly input podcasts that would be great :)
Spanish for False Beginners might be about your level. The Duolingo Spanish Podcast is good and has English to help you follow but it might be closer to B1 (been a while since I listened so can't remember exactly). César who does Spanish for False beginners also has a podcast called the Intermediate Spanish Podcast - it will probably be above your level but he has transcripts online which you can translate to help you follow along for when you feel you have more mental energy. It's often really interesting which you might prefer over easier but less engaging content. If not save it for when you get a little better
Question: how much do you think someone needs to understand an audiobook to use it as comprehensible input? I'm at a point with Chinese where I can read novels and grasp the main idea and some details (like descriptions and technical words), and all details if I look the unknown words up (about 1 every 50 words or less often). When I listen to audiobooks of things I can read (so I know most words), I can grasp the main idea and follow the plot. But details are harder to grasp since I can't look at hanzi to help figure out which word it is with audio, and my listening skills are just generally a bit weaker. I want to improve my listening, and use comprehensible input. When reading its definitely comprehensible. But you mention that using audio let's you study for hours, which I'd like to do since I can do listening during other activities but reading I have only 1 hour or less per day for. Do you think "grasping main idea" is enough comprehension to use audiobooks as comprehensible input?
My answer is that if you can follow along and enjoy it, it's probably a good level for you. If you are confused and it's a real struggle, then it's too difficult. If you are getting bored, maybe you should look at something easier. What that level would be for you depends on your tolerance for ambiguity. If you can read better than you can listen (fairly common) then a good approach would be to listen to something that has a transcript. You can alternate between (1) listening and following along with the transcript; (2) reading the transcript; and (3) listening without the transcript. This last one you can do during other activities. Listen multiple times until your listening comprehension improves. This would be a matter of finding material that might be beyond your level, and making it compreshensible.
Definitely agree about flashcards. They are the devil's big joke on learners. People spend so much quality time creating them and perfecting them and re-editing them and thinking about whether they could be better or not, and comparing them to others' efforts and trying to find ready made ones which will magically teach you eveyrthing only to be disappointed in them and so looking for others that are the next big thing that will definitely work, and so on and so on, that they often fail to actually use them meaningfully in a way that actually works. And do they work? For language acquisition, I mean? Maybe they do for pure fact based memoriasation - learning capital cities of countries, for example. But I don't know if they actually make you any good at speaking or understanding a language. At best they might make you into a sort of human dictionary...but who wants to hang out and chill with one of those?
When I walk my dog, I focus on the dog and my relationship with her. She sniffs all the time but I let her do that. Can be annoying at times as she's tracking this and that and going across me tripping me up. I'm learning Korean. Have thought about "acquiring" knowledge this way whilst dog walking. Fuck that compared to a sentient being relationship for a short life span. I'll do it other ways. I need to focus on nature and the dog, better for me than ignoring both.
I really don't see the point in learning a language just to understand it. I want to be able to speak it too. I've also been using the comprehensible input method and I am practicing shadowing, plus listening ALOT and also doing some reading. Six months into doing this I can understand basic conversations and phrases, but also, I can say actual sentences to relay a thought to someone, or request something. No offense, but this seems like the looooong, scenic route to language learning.
Language is like learning an instrument. I mean it's the same thing. When you pick up guitar, you take like a few months to a year to feel good, and the suddenly you wake up and BAM you can play and then it's normal progression from there. Gym? Other way around
Thank you for the solid advice. I am learning French (slowly). I heard it said that you have to get the target language into you! Input, comprehensible input and the brain will naturally process it! Hope it is true! Is the area the ‘Peak District’?
@@matt_brooks-green I'm sure the quality production was HUGE. I'm emphasizing there's a lot more detail and the foil of traditional methods are getting dated in 2023.
@@Gary-Meyer As in everybody in 2023 knows that traditional methods don't work? That may be true, but watching videos highlighting the benefits of comprehensible input are always an encouraging reminder. I think it's a valuable thing.
But what about absolutely no knowledge or the language to start with? There is no comprehensible input. So where do you start. Seems you talk about already having some language / vocabulary. What about ZERO to start with?
"The person who enjoys walking will go further than the person who is focused on the destination."
I enjoy your content. It keeps me motivated in my Spanish learning journey
Depends on the person. For me thinking about the destination is what makes me enjoy walking
@@blubaylon yup not quite the same but similar concept that's why I can't be spoiled in movies or games because of its something cool then I just want to know how it gets to that point and if its something lame I want to see where it goes wrong
@@DarthRane113 yes exactly
English is my first language and I'm still learning new things about it everyday. Language learning is a life long love affair
Once again, there I was, minding my own business and watching Dreaming Spanish when I get a notification that Matt has dropped another video. Sorry, Pablo. I’ll be back after I watch Matt’s video.
Thanks Jeff!
I have been thinking about learning English for quite a long time, but I have found that learning is useless. Grammar is boring. I hate learning the rules even though I naively thought I would learn English this way. I've wasted ten years at my desk with textbooks to no avail!!!! For me, it's listen, read, speak English out loud to myself at home, sometimes with a friend. Dictation helps too, but I enjoy it. I just want to do what I enjoy. This guy knows what he's talking about. He's right. I came across you by accident and I applaud you!!!! Thanks for this video and for confirming what I've been thinking for a long time. Katya from the Czech Republic
Great content as always. Recently I came across a tweet from Matt vs Japan and I think its maybe one of the most profound things I've read on language learning - to paraphrase he said that the method you use to learn a language does not determine how fast you learn a language - it determines how you will speak the language. This backs up my experience - I can pretty much tell how anyone who speaks English as an L2 has learned it (especially those who come from a non-European first language). I'm convinced that inputting may not be the 'fastest' way to learn, but if your aim is to be able to communicate comfortably in the language, its by far the best way.
On flash cards and their merits,
I like making them from real life scenarios. Admittedly, Italian is not my strongest language nor my first “second language”, but I take a notebook with me everywhere I go and I take little notes here and there of unique words or phrases along with brief usage explanations. I don’t read the book regularly, but just writing down the words/phrases has helped tremendously. To reiterate, the notebook isn’t my focus but it helps to keep me focused on a given conversation as sometimes the mind tends to wander when in situations of nebulous comprehension.
I also really like making sentence cards vs single word cards and doing so from a film or story I like a lot.
Flashcards are useful but only for the first 230 to 300 most common words. Orientation words (to, from, under, over, behind, in front, etc.) are incredibly useful. And they appear in nearly every sentence. With a focused list, it takes a couple minutes a day to review, and you can go back to reading.
Making language learning fun is very important in order to make it a habit. I used to do reading and flashcards but recently ditched them cause I found doing them a bit boring. Now I purely focus on reading and CI.
On flashcards, I finished the Japanese core 2k and then moved on to the core 2k/6k. For quite a while I felt like it was pretty useful, but I have recently been making my own flashcards using dialogue from The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and I have noticed a massive difference in how much I retain (I use DeepL to translate it into English even though I know it isn't perfect, it is still good enough.) I have to say, since I am making cards for most lines of dialogue, it feels really easy to learn from these since they are all connected to a wider story that I am interested in and it never feels like a slog to get through them.
Also, I don't mean to badmouth the core 2k decks, they have nice audio by natives and example sentences for each word, but I think I definitely spent too much time worrying about flashcards instead of focusing on immersion. Though, to be fair, I think I did put myself off from immersion when I had tried it right when I started learning Japanese and set myself up for failure (so, I am sure my bad impression on immersion probably stems from that.)
Gracias por el video Matt! Conmigo tienes un fan de Puerto Rico.
I tried to finish the 2k deck for 2 years and never got past 1000 words because I realize I’m spending 30min-1hr and still struggle to recognize the words in dialogue for TV or in reading.
It probably helped a bit but my goal is listening comprehension and moderate reading ability so doesn’t make sense anymore to do any decks. I just use Yomichan or just read now. So much more enjoyable for sure
@@burgular_the @burgular_the I get that, and to be honest, I also struggled with a lot of the cards when they were new. I ended up setting a limit of 3 attempts, and if I get them all wrong I would just click on "good" and pass it on to the next day.
Either way, I think I made the mistake of having flashcards as my main focus for way too long.
Anyway, good luck on your studies homie
Great content! Just discovered you and I've done the same throughout the years, normally I buy some kids book, then move on to comics, ideally while having a course that has a story. For what I've seen, typically there is content like this with a main character that arrives in the target language's country and you follow up in all the daily activities that one would have and it makes it also like one big story so it's hard to get bored.
Another way also to improve speaking is doing it alone, being full conversations or sometimes when walking and making up stories.
I sound mental lol but it has helped me a lot when I didn't have natives/couldn't afford courses/was in a rural area and couldn't attend events like going to a bar to swap languages.
De cualquier manera, genial el video, saludos desde España! (aunque te recomiendo más aprender mi acento argentino jajaj)
I agree with you in general. Two factors not addressed. 1. Sometimes you need to reach fluency by a certain date at which time, flash cards or vocab lists become essential for a while. 2. Spanish is easy to fake for an English speaker. But the more distant a language, the greater the minimum vocabulary list. And one unspoken thing in your talk is that language need to be learned or acquired, not poured into one's head by a teacher. Iow, a student must be active, not passive. Reading and talking/listening in conversations are active, sitting through lessons is passive. People usually think of language acquisition like math instruction, i.e., the teacher explains everything, checks that you understood the explanation, and voila, you have learned a language.
I'm not saying don't to flashcards etc, they're just not for me. With regard to passive/ active, I'm not talking about classroom study at all. For adult learners it is largely independent learning for which I advocate acquisition over explicating classroom learning. The methods vary depending on the learner. You have to do what you enjoy doing. That doesn't have to be study or hard, but in that sense it is active
@@matt_brooks-green Nice to see a reply by the author. 1. Flashcards. I prefer a list as it is easier to use but does have the disadvantage of anticipation. I have found no other way to get 150 new words a week into my head. There is, however, a trick to using them. Cold memorisation is very difficult and context in a list is irrelevant. Therefore, you have to connect the new word to something you already know, like the Lithuanian aciu (ah' choo - thank you) with 'at you'.
2. A polyglot, even a failed one like me, is comfortable finding their own path. Most people do not feel that level of comfort and rely on outside materials, whether that be a classroom, app, or textbook. And that is one of the main reasons I hear why people are not interested in learning a language. 'I cannot do it on my own; someone needs to take my hand and lead me through the process.' But the real problem is that learning a language, even an easy one like Lithuanian, is a lot of work. And they want they want the 'instructor' to do the work for them. Now if you just want a tourist level of vocabulary, that is not that hard to achieve. But to move to a country where your native language is not spoken and work for the natives, you need thousands of words, not hundreds, and you need them now, when the job opening exists, not in 10 years when the language courses (formal in a classroom or informal at home) end. And that level of language is rarely taught anywhere; you have to teach yourself.
3. Do what you enjoy. 100% agree. I would go even further. If you enjoy reading and are going to read a book, read a great book that you can't put down, not just any book to say you read one. Most of the foreigners I know of who have learned Lithuanian have a Lithuanian partner. So love, not work or recreation, seems to be the primary motivator.
You should start a course making videos teaching people this method, it's amazing
Hahaha! Thanks! 😊
I've been doing this to learn Chinese for 12 days now, it's great. Really not hard to do, I just watch some quick videos.
I've also been doing this with English input for 9 years. It truly just works, It's just this easy thing you get the habit of doing and you're just immensly glad you did looking back on it !
I’m interested to know what Chinese CI resources you watched over the 12 days.
@@SimplyChinese I've watched comprehensible chinese's beginner playlist, and now I've sarted watching the start of her low intermediate playlist
@@Jbrimbelibap have you watched any Comprehensible Mandarin channel’s videos?
@@SimplyChinese No but I could watch some of your vids if you have beginner stuff
@@Jbrimbelibap I consider mine all as beginner videos. That’s my target anyway ‘cause that’s what mostly missing in the RUclips universe.
I’ve managed to reach HSK 3 level within 1.5month by using CI and graded readers. If I were to yse HSK books it would cost me 3+ months at least.
I agree with Matt. For me, when i started learning Spanish i tried doing it with just CI but I found it ball achingly slow. Also, I'm a bit of a grammar nerd so i actually enjoy explicitly learning about the mechanics of a language, although i totally understand why many people would be bored to tears doing that.
This is a great video. I like and would recommend the Dreaming Spanish videos but i just can't swallow Pablo's unscientific anecdotal claims about not reading until you've reached X amount of hours etc. Just find what's fun and do that for as long as it stays fun to do. 😊
Yeah, do what you enjoy. I stopped reading for a period when I started DS. I'm not sure the benefit it has had to my Spanish. There is certainly evidence in favour of reading as a major way to acquire vocabulary. I also like doing it when I have time which is the most important thing. Thanks for checking out the video! 😊
I absolutely hate flashcards, too. I’m kind of starting to wonder though if maybe I should make a few flashcards on those words that come up again and again that I just never remember but my usual pattern as I make flashcards, and then forget about them, and never look at them again.
I know. I've given up on them. I just read every day now. It's more enjoyable and I'm more likely to keep up the habit. With flashcards I always had to force myself to do them and it ends up taking up a lot of my day when I could just read something interesting instead. That said, I might have to do them again when I return to Chinese! 😅
@@matt_brooks-green i found vocabulary list are helpful for absolute beginner level, if you just starting learning language. Just for 500-1000 basic word list like "in, on, study, read". Once i memorize all the words, i stepped up my game with a lot of input.
My problem with the comprehensible input learners is the "extremist" approach of "never speak a word because you're mouth will contort and never speak a mispronounced word correctly again". I genuinely don't know of anyone who has achieved a very high level inn a language without ANY deliberate practice. Personally I believe there has to be a balance of SOME deliberate practice (flashcards, glance grammar structures, learn the scrit if your language has a different scrit) along with a load of input. At some stage, you'll hit a barrier and you will HAVE TO speak to improve. This is from my experience off leaarning Mandarin. Good content, man. Keep it up!
There are certainly examples in the literature (Stephen Krashen has lots of anecdotes) of people who have learned languages to a very high degree without 'deliberate' learning. Go to Africa or India and you'll find millions of people who have learned additional languages this way. In pre-internet days I've met people in Asia who spoke near perfect English simply from absorbing media (although most had some 'base' from school learning) without ever leaving their home towns. Whether they are making things harder for themselves or not is the big question. I'd love to see some long term comparative studies into it, but nobody seems to have done this.
@@philipdavis7521 I guess that's the question then ultimately. Does a lack of deliberate practice and skill building make it harder? This debate has been ongoing since before Krashen and it's remarkable that there aren't more studies on it.
@@dwaalling95 Beniko Mason (a Krashen inspired L2 academic in Japan) has lots of interesting links in her website, although many of the references are beyond a paywall (she runs teaching courses for input based teachers). She claims that the research points towards early output or 'active' learning as being counterproductive, but there is always a danger of selective use of studies in such a diverse field.
Selective use of studies and biased assessment methods permeate the field. The assessments seem to always be discrete grammar tests. So of course explicit learning /test prep will always make it look like that is “better”but better on the test does not mean more proficient in communication….
Great video!
Thank you, I appreciate it! 🙏
What comprehensible input resources did you use for Chinese? I think comprehensible input in certain languages is easy to find. Spanish, Portuguese and French for me was fairly stress free. Finding good Mandarin resources to read is really difficult. It’s either too difficult or extremely boring!
DO you rekon it would be a good idea to mooch about using this method in 2 languages at once... for example.. im learning kanji in japanese atm but could learn another language alongside while i learn kanji....
So if you had to put the novice's language learning technique (process?) (steps?) into a list AT GUN POINT! What would that list look like?
Might it be something like:
1. Learn pre-school (elementary school?) level grammar.
2. As soon as you are comfortable with this level, consume ENJOYABLE & CONTEXTUAL comprehensible content/input at this (pre-school/elementary) level.
3. As soon as you feel comfortable with this comprehensible media (e.g. kids shows?), move on to the next school grade level, maybe grade 4-7?
4. Once you're comfortable with school grade level 4-7, progressively work your way up to high school level content?
5. Once comfortable with high school level content, move on to college (adult) level content?
5. Decide whether you're ready to start speaking.
I'm very step oriented, so I'd really appreciate a concrete list 🤗.
What should I read or listen to so for each level of language (A1,A2,B1,etc)
I’ve been a fan for a while, Matt. And I do find that this method is working for my life and my schedule. But I feel like I need to get a sense of your level of Spanish. I’d rather learn a language slowly and lazily than 5hrs/day for 6 months. But how well does it work? I’d estimate you’re close to 800-900 hours of comprehensible input in Spanish. So the question is, how’s your output?
Hahaha. Will do an update video at some point mate. I'm confident large amount of input works
Isle of Tenerife,
Spain,
Africa.
Well done, Matt.
Another excellent video, pretty much explaining how I intend to now start learning Frisian.
A technical question:
If you had to choose, which variety of Spanish would you most like to one day become completely fluent and proficient in?
Best wishes,
Patchy.
(P.S.: You do have to choose, or it will never happen.)
argentina
The issue I’m having with Spanish at the moment is finding comprehensible input that I can listen to without video. My level is on the cusp of A1-A2 and I find stuff at my level on Dreaming Spanish, my main platform for input, to be quite draining, while the stuff I can understand comfortably is really dull (because it’s for very beginners). If you have any suggestions for beginner-friendly input podcasts that would be great :)
Spanish for False Beginners might be about your level. The Duolingo Spanish Podcast is good and has English to help you follow but it might be closer to B1 (been a while since I listened so can't remember exactly). César who does Spanish for False beginners also has a podcast called the Intermediate Spanish Podcast - it will probably be above your level but he has transcripts online which you can translate to help you follow along for when you feel you have more mental energy. It's often really interesting which you might prefer over easier but less engaging content. If not save it for when you get a little better
@@matt_brooks-greenI really appreciate this, thanks so much :)
THE INPUT THING REALLY WORKS.HOWEVER,SOME INTERNATIONAL TESTS PREVENT TEACHERS FROM IMPLEMENTING INPUT ORIENTED ACTIVITIES🤔
Question: how much do you think someone needs to understand an audiobook to use it as comprehensible input? I'm at a point with Chinese where I can read novels and grasp the main idea and some details (like descriptions and technical words), and all details if I look the unknown words up (about 1 every 50 words or less often). When I listen to audiobooks of things I can read (so I know most words), I can grasp the main idea and follow the plot. But details are harder to grasp since I can't look at hanzi to help figure out which word it is with audio, and my listening skills are just generally a bit weaker. I want to improve my listening, and use comprehensible input. When reading its definitely comprehensible. But you mention that using audio let's you study for hours, which I'd like to do since I can do listening during other activities but reading I have only 1 hour or less per day for. Do you think "grasping main idea" is enough comprehension to use audiobooks as comprehensible input?
My answer is that if you can follow along and enjoy it, it's probably a good level for you. If you are confused and it's a real struggle, then it's too difficult. If you are getting bored, maybe you should look at something easier. What that level would be for you depends on your tolerance for ambiguity.
If you can read better than you can listen (fairly common) then a good approach would be to listen to something that has a transcript. You can alternate between (1) listening and following along with the transcript; (2) reading the transcript; and (3) listening without the transcript. This last one you can do during other activities. Listen multiple times until your listening comprehension improves. This would be a matter of finding material that might be beyond your level, and making it compreshensible.
For me, new words need to build on words I know. So random sentence cards don’t help me.
So I make my own.
Definitely agree about flashcards. They are the devil's big joke on learners. People spend so much quality time creating them and perfecting them and re-editing them and thinking about whether they could be better or not, and comparing them to others' efforts and trying to find ready made ones which will magically teach you eveyrthing only to be disappointed in them and so looking for others that are the next big thing that will definitely work, and so on and so on, that they often fail to actually use them meaningfully in a way that actually works.
And do they work? For language acquisition, I mean? Maybe they do for pure fact based memoriasation - learning capital cities of countries, for example. But I don't know if they actually make you any good at speaking or understanding a language. At best they might make you into a sort of human dictionary...but who wants to hang out and chill with one of those?
Can you please share some of those Spanish RUclips creators? 🙏
When I walk my dog, I focus on the dog and my relationship with her. She sniffs all the time but I let her do that. Can be annoying at times as she's tracking this and that and going across me tripping me up. I'm learning Korean. Have thought about "acquiring" knowledge this way whilst dog walking. Fuck that compared to a sentient being relationship for a short life span. I'll do it other ways. I need to focus on nature and the dog, better for me than ignoring both.
I really don't see the point in learning a language just to understand it. I want to be able to speak it too. I've also been using the comprehensible input method and I am practicing shadowing, plus listening ALOT and also doing some reading. Six months into doing this I can understand basic conversations and phrases, but also, I can say actual sentences to relay a thought to someone, or request something. No offense, but this seems like the looooong, scenic route to language learning.
Language is like learning an instrument. I mean it's the same thing. When you pick up guitar, you take like a few months to a year to feel good, and the suddenly you wake up and BAM you can play and then it's normal progression from there. Gym? Other way around
But what about the structure of the sentence all this i only can know for knowing grammar, I tell this as a portuguese native speaker
Thank you for the solid advice. I am learning French (slowly). I heard it said that you have to get the target language into you! Input, comprehensible input and the brain will naturally process it! Hope it is true! Is the area the ‘Peak District’?
Thanks for checking out the video. I'm in the south east!
Foreign music
and you continue to ...
I think you severely underestimate the meaning of lazy. 😉😉
He's not at all this is a very lazy way compared to other ways.
Or maybe this is just a lazy method of explaining an effective method of learning languages.
Was actually a lot of work Gary...
@@matt_brooks-green I'm sure the quality production was HUGE. I'm emphasizing there's a lot more detail and the foil of traditional methods are getting dated in 2023.
@@Gary-Meyer As in everybody in 2023 knows that traditional methods don't work? That may be true, but watching videos highlighting the benefits of comprehensible input are always an encouraging reminder. I think it's a valuable thing.
But what about absolutely no knowledge or the language to start with? There is no comprehensible input. So where do you start. Seems you talk about already having some language / vocabulary. What about ZERO to start with?
Understanding the language doesn’t mean you will speak it 😢
True but not understanding means you definitely won't be able to speak it