Cutting Steel Using a CNC Router (CNC Router Beginner to Pro EP 10)
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2024
- The title of the final episode is Cutting Steel Using a CNC Router (CNC Router Beginner to Pro EP 10).
There are many attempts to cut steel with a CNC Router on RUclips, most of them fail because the individual is using the recommendation or knowledge that is applied to cut steel on a mill. A CNC Router is lacking the rigidity and and spindle horse power of a mill so transferring the same cutting parameters will simply not work.
My approach is to get the surface speed as low as possible while maintaining the rpm going through the cut, so in other words without stalling the spindle. I find 12-13k rpm a good starting point.
The tool I use is from Onlinecarbide, it has a variable helix that will aid in reducing vibration. Here a link
www.onlinecarbide.com/14flvhe...
The Coolant I use you can find on Amazon:
As a Amazon associate I make money on qualifying purchases.
Cutting Fluid 585XT (Amazon)
amzn.to/3Oh1lly 
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Great starting points in this whole series for home routers. Too man yof the online calculators are geared to industrial machines so this helps a lot. Once I get a happy sound I change the tool parameters in Fusion so it keeps the recipe for future use.
Yes that is very true most cannot account for the spindle hp and min rpm. You can also make a template in fusion for the different types of cut using a specific tool like 2D adaptive in Aluminium using a 1/4” tool or a finish pass this way you can grab an already proven set up and only have to select the contour. It’s a very handy trick. And thanks for the comment Gerrit as always nice to have you on board.
Thanks so much for this! Very helpful feed-and-speed information. I'd be super interested in any follow-ups (exploring different tools, different strategies, and pretty much anything else regarding steels in the router). Given the success here, I'd be interested in how this performs with tool steels, stainless steel, etc. Again, I really appreciate your videos -- thanks for taking the time to produce them!
Thank you for the feedback, I might have one more video in the future using a couple different facing tools.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge! The links for materials are appreciated.
Glad it was helpful!
This series was great! really enjoyed it.
Excellent ! I am glad you watched it
Great content as usual, keep it going! You will grow, you really deserve more popularity! Thanks!
I appreciate that! Lets see if the youtube algorithm gets a hold of me one day lol.
@@JBWorx it will, just keep a constant schedule and the good work always pay!
@@HardwareNumb3rs yes, truing one vid a week for 2 month now.
Very well done as usual. I am taking a CNC course at Cincinnati State, at school we are using Haas machines. With your insights I am sure my machine will see some metals. Steel has always been "the dream". While I would not want to sign up for an order of 100 parts, one or two seem reasonable.
Now lest you think I am 19, nah retired Mechanical Engineer... but NOT a manufacturing engineer. Actually, making something is a whole lot different than design and analysis of a part. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge.
Thank you so much for your comment and great that you are back to learning … keeps us young ! And in Cinci so really close to me
IVE BEEN MILLING STAINLESS DAMSCUS ON MY CNC...I WILL HAVE TO TRY YOUR BIT...ENJOYED THE VIDEO ..
Excellent! And thank you
Love the video @jbworx !
It is enlightening to know that its all about taking lighter cuts + slowing surface speed down to the point that chatter / vibrations are minimal.
It gives hope for hobbyists like myself, who dont' have the space for a big rigid machine!
Please share if this approach is also possible for harder steels (stainless etc)?
Thank you! Yes it’s also possible for stainless steel. Look for “free machining stainless alloys. They will cut much better and don’t harden up as easy during the cutting process.
Great series, thank you! :)
You're very welcome!
JBWorxStudio, you can remove the mill scale on steel by pickling it in vinegar or citric acid for a day or so. also its surprising you cant get hot rolled pickled and oiled (P&O) steel in the states.
Yes I am familiar with the pickle process we used hydrochloric acid where I worked … probably too dangerous for home use but same concept. Oh I am sure you can buy hot rolled without scale is just that the vendor I buy from does not carry it - unfortunately.
nice video, thanks
I am glad you liked it
Thanks for sharing. I was just curious about this.
Some remove the scale with vinegar (takes some time). Citric acid should work too (I use it to remove rust). Needs to soak for some hours, but by heating up the solution, you can speed it up significantly.
Yes an acid pickle is certainly possible and also commercially done on many parts to remove scale. Thanks for your comment.
That's AWESOME!!!
Glad that you like it !
Check Harvey tool for steel cutting bits as well
Thank you for the recommendation !! Will do !
When facing you seem to sometimes confuse ap and ae 😉
I'm pretty sure ap is the depth and ae is the radial engagement 😅
But don't worry about that, it's very informative video as always !
I think I did it was late at night 🙈
I'm new to CNCing metal. My question is, you went with a 4 fluted tool. If you change to a 2 or even single fluted tool, can't you increase your rpm to the power range of your spindle? I believe less flutes cause more deflection of the tool so dept of cut would suffer and/or it would increase chatter. In asking because i have a 9kw 24k rpm spindle and any speed less than 12k rpm is a problem. I am trying to obtain the proper tooling....Thanks! You series has been extremely informative.
Your approach is right, however there is really no single flute tool for steel for the exact reason you mention. There are 2 flutes made by Datron for cutting steel with a high rpm but the largest diameter is 3mm. I am currently trying 2 different indexable tools one for facing and one for running a pocket. The nice option is that I can exchange the inserts from cutting aluminum to cutting steel. I don’t have a link to them as I bought them long ago and never used them and now the vendor is no longer available. I might do a follow up video. For aluminum Datron is my choice though.
Excellent video! Do you have a recommendation for a starter machine that will cut 2.5-3.0mm carbon/stainless steel? I am looking to cut out pieces like removable hockey skate blades and mini hockey sticks for crafts. Thanks!
That is a pretty high bar for a beginner machine. There are 3 elements you need A) weight the more the better B) linear guides and ball screws C) the spindle should be the 4pole slower running motor. However I cannot give you a specific model / vendor that provide that. Maybe the Langmuirsystems MR-1 would fit your bill have a look.
The most u grind the steel ,with end mill , u need full engage an lover rpm , with water cooled spondle works ok , but the design of ur router doesnt alow for high stiffnes .
Ur lateral suports or gantey are thick , and they woblle when u enter in material with a spindle , for better rigidity u need to add some lateral traverse to lateral gantry holders .
Thank you for your input, please google high feed milling.
I am seriously considering a 10k spindle in the next year or two to move the compromise toward metal over timber. Maybe a Spindle Changer while I am going too 😆
Yes a higher pole count motor will give a lower rpm and more torque. If you venture in machine metals with your machine than this is a good solution.
Scale can easily be removed using a belt sander. As you've noted, cutting tool life is significantly increased when the steel is free of scale. The same principle is true when machining sand cast aluminum.
I think an angle grinder with a flap disc works really well too. But buying it without the scale would be best 😀
@@JBWorx Scale only forms on hot rolled steel, which is rolled to size at temperatures at or above 1700 degrees Fahrenheit. Cold rolled steel is available in common sizes and is scale free.
Yes you are 100% correct, I don’t like to use it if I machine a lot of material off of it as it usually will not stay flat. The cold forming process makes it full of stress. There is also stress relived material, but now we are getting a bit away from what we use for DIY projects and what is readily available to you as a maker without operating a shop.
Hi
On 2kW spindle YES - 6mm is max diameter of end mill. But for roughing and removing big amount of material is to slow.
I made 2 projects with steel on my gantry router - 2 pieces of steel 500x800x60mm about 200kg and about 90kg of removed material...
I thought that it will never be finished, about 2 weeks of working... I said that it is my LAST project with so big piece of steel on my DIY gantry. BUT I tried something gamechanging and really cheap.
I tried indexable milling tools with small inserts from Aliexpress.
Try to find EXN02R milling rod with LNMU0202 inserts OR ESE/ASM rods with JDMT0702 inserts. You can find 8-12mm diameter with 1-3 inserts on it. Most of them are 120-150mm long - so you will need to shorten to 80-100mm.
12mm with 3 insert for high feed surface milling and 8-10mm with 1 insert for deep and narrow pockets.
Of course you can find and try combination of non-standart ER20 collet 15mm and 16mm shank indexable tools after "small improvement" on lathe. Sometimes I'm using it.
JDMT - I think have less vibrations but LNMU is cheaper because insert have 4 cutting edges.
For my gantry router it going 0.2-0.4mm DOC and 40-90% WOC, 10000-18000 RPM and up to 8000mm/min.
After that - life changed. For DIY gantry from aluminum and thi type of spindle - high feed roughing strategy with indexable tools is really good, cheap and really fast.
Thank you for this information. Yes high feed milling is the strategy that I am pursuing as well. I ordered a high feed end mill for this video but it arrived damaged so I could not use it, however I have been looking for an indexable end mill like you mentioned above as I also like to try some PCD inserts. Your DOC, Stepover and feed rate sound correct to me. 👍
@yaroslavstepaniuk5234 Hi. Great information. Can you tell more how many inserts you use for steel. As i watched on youtube some people take out one or two inserts to mill on router. Also on what rpm you use these indexable cutter on cnc router
So the thought of taking inserts out is to get to a lower feed rate as the rpm can not be lowered. You will see a bit more were on the remaining inserts and also keep in mind that the tool will still need to be in balance so the inserts taken out have to be in pairs across each other. Go with an rpm as low as you can get away with without stalling your spindle. For mine on a 6mm tool that is 12=13k rpm.
@JBWorx i just ordered 3.7kw 400hz 220v 6000-12000 rpm water cool spindle lets see how it will work on steel
@farhanchoudhre6962 I think this is the ticket you will love it for steel.
Have you tried 18k rpm with about 3000mm feed rate possibly higher? These 2.2kw spindles really like higher RPM's and feeds. I know I did some steel work with one at around those settings. It didn't sound that great but the work done was acceptable.
I don’t like to use 18k on steel, the tool wear is getting too high and the chips come of extremely hot. My strategy was to drop the rpm down to the minimum but not stall it. Even for Al I like to stay under 18k if I can. 3m/min feedrate is possible with a shallow depth of cut also on my machine.
@@JBWorx Well that's the thing you match the feed rate to the rpm. The chips stay the same but the spindle has more power at that speed. 18k to 22k is the optimal speeds for these 2.2kw spindles. 10-14k on these spindles are more for wood. In my opinion.
I completely disagree on aluminum and non ferrous. 18k rpm 4.5m to 5.5m per minute all day. But everything with cutting fluid. I either use a mister or flood coolant.
BTW, I really appreciate your videos. Your testing on the homing switches was excellent. I'm currently building a Granite base machine and have some Panasonic optical sensors on order thanks to you. Looking forward to using them.
I think you will like them good luck on your built
Hello experts, do you recommend which machine for milling hard steel for a budget of 6000 dollars? THANKS
Hmmm honestly I don’t think there is such a machine on the market.
btw you switched Ap and Ae
Ap is how much in the Z axis
Ae is how much of the tool diameter
Yes I did that a couple times in this vid … it was late at night when I was editing this video … lesson learned for me
Sir how to relief engraving on iron please guide me sir, how to roughing and finishing for relief portrait designing engraving
Well if it is a relief carving you will need a small diameter tool. I would do the roughing with a 3mm diameter but edge radius but. Followed with ball nose bit. The diameter are really dependent on the detail of the relief and so is the step over.
hi i just want an advise. i have completed my cnc router an wand to replace wasteboard with either a drilled fixture plate or tslot plate. what sould i go for?
If you machining mainly wood then a T-slot plate is great. If you machine metal I prefer the fixture plate with treads. But there is no wright or wrong both will work.
@@JBWorx yes I have made my machine to work on aluminum and materials like PTFE fiber board which is hard formed and 6061 aluminium. These are widely available in my local area market. If I use fixture plate, coolant will drain through holes even mist coolant. But I think threaded plate is better for me.
Have a look at my fixture plate video there are many tips that can help you making a plate for your needs. Good luck 👍
Do you run 400 or 800hz? I’ve been told 800hz foc spindle and vfds are better for steel… but I have yet to see any actual data on that
From top of my head it’s 400 or 440Hz. Definitely not 800. Honestly I have been really happy with this Huanyang Spindle it’s been trough hell in the years I had it and never missed a beat and the runout is still excellent.
@@JBWorx They really are impressive. Especially for the price. I have several spindles but I have one 2.2kw that is coming on 10 years of usage. I don't have an hour count on it but it's in the thousands. Still going.
That is great. I bought another one recently for a machine I sold and got it from Amazon with a 3 year warranty package … will probably not need that.
Being in the cnc machining industry microsol 585XT works but it will stink over time. I’d go to a full synthetic.
Nice thing is that it is just used once on a mist coolant system and then practically wasted. But yes I can smell it in my lathe for sure.
Steel! Must admit i did not really think this type of machine could do that
Most can’t, but with a bit finesse and some improvements on the mechanics it’s possible
Hello, can you tell me what CNC machine you have or a cheap CNC for cutting metal(around $600CAD range)?
Mine is a home brew that I built many years ago. I don’t think there are true options available for that price that can cut metal. Your best bet is to built one on your own and upgrade components as you go. Possibly the PrintNC is something to check into.
@@JBWorx Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. Most channels don't bother with older comments. Could you provide me with some basic steps for building my own CNC, or some kind of guide/resource that I can use?
Yes certainly. The PrintNC CNC is an open source project and the nice thing is that you can buy or make your own components as you choose to. Here a link
wiki.printnc.info/en/home
@@JBWorx Okay thanks, I will look into it.
👍
Für's Facing würde ich da eher eine Facemill mit Einsätzen nehmen, die Oberfläche sieht auch viel besser aus. Eine 4cm Facemill sollte die Maschine schon können? Mit ner Roughing-Endmill geht sicherlich auch noch ein bißchen mehr.
Habe noch nie einen Fly-Cutter verwendet, die sollen angeblich auch gute Resultate auf schwächeren Maschinen liefern.
Ja geht aber halt nur mit viel höherer Drehzahl bedingt durch den größeren Durchmesser. Und dann fliegen die Späne aber richtig. Durch den Einsatz der Kamera kann ich nach vorne keinen Schutz anbringen was dann immer viel Arbeit mit den Staubsauger bedeutet. Das Problem mit dem flycutter ist ähnlich und die meisten sind nicht balanciert dass heißt du kannst die Drehzahl garnicht so hoch laufen lassen dass der überhaupt durchs Material kommt. Entweder es rappelt alles oder die Spindel bleibt stehen.
@@JBWorx Ich häng da n dickeres transparentes Plastik herum, reicht soweit um die Späne abzufangen. Klar wenn's zu heiß wird bleiben ein paar stecken aber abfackeln tut da nichts.
Ja das geht, ich hab auch schon einfach sign boards (sind aus Papier und foam) verwendet um temporär einen Schutz zu machen. Gebrannt hat da noch nichts, oder pressboard. Geht alles.
with 12k rpm cutter doesnt melt?
😀😀 no it’s a carbide tool, it’s cutting fine as you can see.
I think that Ap = 5mm is too much on 10:16
Maybe it was 0.5mm?
You are correct and even worse I deleted an important part where I show the surface finish 🙈 maybe I can correct it. It was 11:30 at night when I edited the video 😀
Ap ist Tiefenzustellung und Ae Seitenzustellung :)
Ja correct war zu spät am Abend
Amazing! We can s custom-supply the CNC cutter at the best price, no matter what materials. pls contact me if you need it, tks.
Perfect ! Can you contact me via my website JBWorxstudio.com please.
Never thought steel was something that would be possible on a CNC router
With the right tool and light enough passes, it’s doable. I have made quite a few parts from steel on this machine but I always hate the cleanup especially when I am filming.
@@JBWorx yes I could imagine that is a complete pain, maybe one day I will try it when mine is has all the upgrades
If you don’t have an enclosure then you can simply use some cardboard taped to your machine.
That would be a good idea, I do need to make an enclosure for those people that live near me.
And there is another project
Naja, da sind ein paar Begrifflichkeiten durcheinander. Was du da an deine CNC-Maschine hat ist ein Bürstenloser Spindelmotor. Ein Router ist eine Oberfräse, also z.b. ne Kress, Dewald oder Markita. Das sind ganz andere Motoren, in der Regel mit Bürsten. Ein CNC-Router ist ergo ein Oberfräse in einer CNC-Maschine verbaut.
Aber ich will nicht nur meckern, mir gefallen deine Videos sehr gut.
Danke dir ! Es gibt im englischen den Oberbegriff CNC Router. Der muss nicht zwingend einen Router (deutsch Oberfraese) als Motor haben. Die deutsche Sprache ist, speziell im technischen Bereich, wesentlich spezifischer. Das fängt schon mit dem Wort “bolt” an was ja eigentlich für alles verwendet wird oder such mal nach einem
Gabelkopf … viel Glück. Anyways … thanks for reaching out !
@@JBWorx , Umgangssprachlich eventuell ja. Aber rein technisch wird dort auch zwischen CNC-Router und CNC-Milling-Machine unterschieden. Zumindest sind das meine Erfahrungen. Kann natürlich sein das einige Nativ-Englischsprachliche das auch nicht so genau nehmen. Oder eventuell den Unterschied garnicht kennen. Letztendlich sind die Übergänge eh fließend. Und in Sprachen sind Unterscheidungen auch nicht immer bzw. selten logisch. Wir sagen z.b. Rapsöl aus Raps, Kokosöl (was fest ist) aus Kokos, Olivenöl aus Oliven etc., dann wieder Motoröl für Motoren und Babyöl für Babys(„für“ und nich „aus“) 🤣😂
@bjornbambus8859 ja guter Vergleich. Die Mill ist dann typischer weise eine andere Bauart. Vertical Mill kommt dem dann näher sind dann aber halt ganz andere Maschinen. Von Laguna gibt es die Swift ist 4x4ft und hat eine schöne Spindel und ist … you guessed it a CNC Router. LOL
Bratwurst
Yep