My very first covered call ETF was a Hamilton Australia one that included real estate has since flipped over to Banking. Since then, I have several ETFs from BMO Hamilton and Horizon. I have had them for at least six years now and I have zero complaints. I have made very good money from them. The exciting thing is, they build my portfolio monthly so I can buy more. I am a huge fan of covered call and I’m going to continue being aggressive with it.
As I understand it there are two main ways many CC ETF's make income, which then gets distruibuted to shareholders; 1. Options premiums (the one way everyone talks about). If the fund is only writing on 30-50% of their holdings then the balance (50-70%) can go on to experience capital appreciation (or depreciation) of their holdings. By selling Calls they are locking in profits for investors. Not all Calls are actually called away, even ATM, but even if they are so what... we've already locked in profits with the Call premiums. Ok, so we have to repurchase shares... so what... just gonna turn around and sell Calls on them too. 2. Dividends (the other way that most people seem to forget). Let's not forget dividends, which can be substantial.
Good video but I think you've missed one important point. If the calls are at the money, then on average, at least half of them will be exercised (assuming stock price changes are random with a positive drift). When the calls are exercised, it forces the fund to sell its shares at the strike price but then to reestablish its position in the stock it must buy back the shares at the higher prevailing market price. In other words, by definition, every time one their calls is exercised, the fund loses money of varying magnitudes. Obviously Hamilton is well aware of this but it makes the seemingly stable income stream much less reliable than it might appear with significant losses possible, even if the underlying shares do not fall in value. Bottom line, there's absolutely no such thing as a free lunch. Sad but true!
you're right, most of covered called ETFs will be going down slowly unless underlyings are stying at the same level (1 scenario); if underlyings go up or down, ETF will go down as well especially if most of options premiums are given back to client through high dividend payments.
The explanation of return of capital was great. I'd not really understood what other youtubers meant when they glossed it over and said "oh it's just for tax purposes" but your explaining the detail of the capital loss and the call premiums made that a lot clearer.
Excellent video! This needs to be shown to all the people who say "these funds are ALL dividend traps" etc. No they are not. They are designed like this and they simply work! Covered calls are only on 50% of the portfolio ( for HMAX as an example) so that leaves the other 50% for growth. Hamilton is an amazing and very smart fund manager and I will continue to buy, hold and dollar cost average into their funds that I like. Thanks again for this video. I agree with it.
@@AsianVideoGamer. The financial sector has dropped a lot during that time and since all the holdings in that fund are the Cnd banks, of course it is down. I don’t think there are any financial based funds that have not dropped during that time period, income based or not. I just see this as a better buying opportunity with a significantly higher yield, unless you feel the Cnd banks are going to just keep dropping forever, which I very much doubt. I fail to see how anything about that fund or this video is a trap.
Could you please take a few ETFs that contain good and bad ROC and show us how to look for them before purchasing? As I tried to look for those information from the ETFs prospectus, statements etc but so far I wasn't able to find any ETF issuing companies listed the breakdowns. I thought these information should be transparent
Yeah that would be great to see. It can be difficult to understand what to look for in a prospectus to tease out whether the ROC with the fund will be good or bad...
Hey Marc, I forwarded your video to a retired DIY'er investor. He was actually thinking of purchasing HMAX. I offered to put his question to you, as I am sure more than one of your viewers has the same question. Here it is: "I have been looking at HMAX obviously the yield is attractive and lack of leverage is a plus for me. Can the at the money options result in being called more frequently with even a small rise in price? Would you then have to buy back the holding at a higher price, to maintain dividend flow therefore leading to a capital loss? Or am I missing something?" Marc, thank you again for another superb presentation, hope the audience didn't think you were too "testy." ☺ 🇨🇦🍁📈
Good point. Writing ATM should mean you'd be exercised more often and then buy back at a higher price. I actually sent Hamilton this question and never heard back. Time will tell how the results work out.
Always appreciate Marc's perspective, even with sponsored videos you can tell he always maintains a non-biased, genuine stance to provide useful information and support for the viewers. HMAX in particular was one CC etf I had concerns about, thanks for this video
@@bradrapids I would also like to know whether or not Marc personally holds HMAX, or plans to buy it. I don't and probably won't, but I still appreciate the info none the less. I believe they used some of the better metrics for calculation here. I think if you averaged all of the numbers, you wouldn't have that few % threshold safety net on the yield sustainability. I'm assuming its closer to par when you factor everything, but I haven't ran the numbers, so at least Marc gave us a bit of a benchmark
Thanks Marc, always appreciate your insights and clear explanations. I'm really excited about this ETF, bought in the day it came out. Can't wait to see how it prefoms.
Hi Marc, Liked the video, but I was left with two questions that I see other people have already asked, but remain unanswered by you. Do you respond to questions in the comments? The questions are: 1. How does one tell "good" ROC from "bad" ROC? Seems pretty essential to know the difference. 2. If an ETF like HMAX is using at the money covered calls, even at 50%, then in a rising market don't they have to buy back their optioned positions the next month at a loss (ie, at a higher price than what they just sold in the option)?
No they don't buy them back at a loss, they simply sell 50% of what they owned to those call options buyers. Basically your 50% positions would not have any capital gains, but you pocket the options premiums that you received in the beginning. Then the fund would have to buy back 50% of the underlying stocks at the current market trading price, and then sell at the money calls right away, basically the same process, rinse and repeat. So 50% of your holdings are moving with the market, while the other 50% is gaining from option premiums only (if the market goes up), but if the market goes down, you keep that 50% and sell at the money call options again for the next month. hope this helps with your #2 question. but yeah, I have a love-hate relationship with at the money call options, XYLD on the US market employs 100% ATM calls which is kinda stupid (for me)
Can’t answer #1 but, although I wouldn’t describe it as buying back at a loss, you are essentially correct. This is why covered call strategies won’t capture the full upside in a bull market.
Guess the suspicion from us retail is I look at historical covered call banks and utilities vs just a regular etf of same sectors. And there's a massive return difference while a mild increase in yield. Plus a huge mer to pay. Hmax has no historical more than 1 month that I can see.
Great explanation of how HMAX produces its high dividend.👍👍 I bought HMAX when it first came out. I like this ETF because its holdings are Canadian Banks, other Financials, and insurance stocks. IMO a great group of stocks. How can you go wrong with these great holdings! I'm down a bit, but so are the majority of stocks. Still paying the monthly dividend, and I am confident the stock price will go back up. *_🤘ROC ON🤘_*
Thank you 🙏🏻 I hear so much criticism about income investing I’m retired without a pension so for me creating enough cashflow maybe 50-60% of my portfolio to income that won’t grow as fast & then 40% to growth stock is my own comfort zone I like that you don’t tell us what’s right or wrong but rather to do our own research & go from there ❤
Great video. In terms of good and bad ROC I think it would be helpful using actual fund examples to show the difference good and bad using their financial statements. They are often not easy to interpret so some guidance in this area would be helpful to your audience. For example, what line(s) in the financial statement would help one understand if the ROC is good or bad?
Long time follower and investing academy member but I gotta be honest this video ruined it all for me.. 1 these sponsored videos are biased because Hamilton is obviously paying for the video so nothing of the bad sides will be talked about. 2 if you’re going to talk about Hamilton funds you can’t use Hmax as an example it’s only been around for a month and a half and has 0 track record in the market. Should have chosen Hyld if you wanted to show people an etf from them with a little history… Hmax hasn’t even paid it first dividend yet.
While his explanation was fairly detailed, I think he could've touched on what would happen to HMAX in the event that the fund needs to buy back the shares at a higher price (after calls are exercised by other party).
Advertising and sponsorship are ways of garnering attention and getting the word out there. How else are we supposed to know these things exist? I ENCOURAGE it, especially hearing a perspective from a fund manager directly. Marc has sufficiently proven his integrity to me to at least give him an open-minded watch/listen. Doing OUR OWN homework is a part of this equation.
These guys and Passive Income Investing are all snake oil salesmen. Started out pure, built and audience, sold out for views and sponsorships. You’re messing with people’s futures. How dare you guys peddle this crap to beginners.
Thanks for the great video. It would interesting to know what the strategy is once the shares are called away if the strike price is reached. Do they simply turn around and repurchase those shares and immediately sell "at the money" calls ? and if so, with what time horizon ?
Great advice and good to pinpoint that it doesn't eliminate the upside potential just reduces it depending ont eh % of portfolio with the call overlay- Thank you for creatign this channel and educating people so they can make better decisions👍
Marc, this one is really, really, really, really, important to present....Did I tell you how really important your presentation was??? LOL....thank you for this Marc.....fYI, I have a hybrid portfolio of single stocks, ETF's cover call, and split corps...Diversification is Queen, and bring peace of mind, so hybrid portfolio's are diversified so conclusion hybrid portfolios bring peace of mind. We are all on a learning curve...enjoy the ride...Appreciate your presentation and having an "licensed expert" wane in on the topic. Perfect👍💯. 🇨🇦🍁 🙏from East Coast
Good video Mr. Beavis. with a clear example about "AT THE MONEY" Covered Call ETF, are there other ETFS comparable to HMAX/UMAX that offer "At the Money"? Would be good to see comparable ETF products that offer high at the money covered call options.
Awesome video Marc! HMAX may not be the ETF I'm looking for BUT the information you give is always 100% appreciated. This type of information can help us get more educated and so help make more informed decisions. Keep up the excellent work.
Well done Marc, I was wondering how HMAX was able to achieve the yield it was seeking with the 50% ATM strategy. The mechanics part of this video was quite informative. Thank you.
a lot of managers have been talking about good ROC and bad ROC where can you find info on the premium income generated on the fund to compare it to their ROC? or do we have to take their word for it
I've also been wondering about this, what numbers would suggest whether a high-yield fund is distributing good or "bad" ROC. I haven't seen this addressed (it needs to be), but I'm guessing following a history of NAV would be a strong clue. If it's historically slowly sinking like the setting sun unless there's a new offering, a deeper dive sounds warranted. Interested in other opinions or knowledge bases out there. Thanks.
Really good explanation, I would be curious to know the long term math if you reinvest the money you get from the options/dividend by buying more units of the covered call ETF? Intuitively, if you get that 14% yield and buy more shares, it seems like it would be an attractive way of buying more of the upside?
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this, Marc. I've been trying to put together this puzzle for quite sometime now but it opens up more questions than answers. I really appreciate this. Would it be correct to assume that by selecting at-the-money calls gives a higher probability that it will be exercised? Thank you for sharing your wisdom! All the best to you and Brandon!
Yes. And then you have to buy back the shares at (possibly) a higher price... that's why you don't get the theoretical 18% yield he is talking about in the video. That's my assumption, i'm not sure what's the fund's stock purchasing strategy.
@@Astro-ck6mh exactly - 18% would only imply if stock price stays at the same level throughout the year..... also, if underlying price starts going down and you keep writing options ATM depending at which level you bought them you will start losing serious money - if you bought them lower then strike prices ATM you will be ok, but if your ATM strike price is lower than your purchase price, then you lose big...
Great video Marc. I find a lot of these high yields funds are having to do funky things these days to be the next hot fund. Selling at the money call options on Canadian banks, which have returned just shy of 11% annualized over the last decade, is one of those funky things. Yield looks nice now, but I cannot imagine this being a profitable endeavor over the long term and I am fairly confident this fund is going to underperform unless the big banks really struggle over the mid to long term.
Hi. Thanks for the amazing videos. They’re so helpful. I’m wondering about the likely sustainability of creating generational wealth by investing in these covered calls or other high dividend etfs or Reits such as NWH. Would it be possible for a retiree to live off the yield and then pass the shares to the next generation?
Amazing video. (Watching it multiple times. Understand more each time.) I’m sure fund managers recognize the value of RUclips guesting. Patrick Somerville's ROC explanations add new clarification, e.g., bad ROC, 10’ 53” “… funds pay out more in distributions than what the underlying holdings are earning…” Many of us are familiar with the bad ROC concept, but could you help us with (where to look for) what numbers suggest good or bad ROC? For instance, could it be as simple as finding NAV history? (Is this available?) If NAV is historically sinking like the setting sun (with the occasional new offering throwing investors off the trail), is this a strong indication of bad ROC? Have not been able to find a source that takes this next level of deep dive to uncover what kind of ROC is distributed. Thanks, Marc!
I wish he had explained what would happen to the yield and value in rising market conditions. My understanding is that you just get the 73$, using his example and the the funds has to replace that share at the higher price of the market goes up. So that would cut into the upside potential when markets recover.
Thanks so much. How does one determine bad roc?? Where does one look to see if distributions are less then the income earned? Pls point to the site pages where this data would be clear so an investor can make an informed decision. Both you and the fund manager omitted where to get this info. Similar to how a normal div stock has a payout %... Where is it for these funds or split shares
Terrific review Marc - appreciate you taking the time to share views from Mr Summerville as well as the the simple math behind the calculation of the potential returns on the funds. Keep up the awesome reviews and best to you and the team at investor academy.
The BNS dividend in your math will probably be half that because odds are the calls will get exercised before the ex-div date and you won't get dividends on half the shares.
Probably won't get exercised before option expiry date. That is very rare. Also before you ate exercised the price of the stock needs to be above strike price plus premium paid( this is your cap). Problem arises when you want to buy back in to write mire covered calls. I don't think this fund sells naked puts to start the wheel all over again 🤔
Second question... do any of these funds guarantee to not eat into the capital for distributions? If not... how does one know it's happening,... or better yet... know it will start happening soon... so one can get out of the way...? Is one better of just running Wheel, Poor Man's covered Calls, [fill in the blank strategy] for one's self?
Great video very informative and straightforward! A question: If one is already retired, should they hold an ETF like HMAX in a registered or non-registered account ( especially if TFSA AND RRSP are at max) Thk!🇨🇦
Great explanation! How does the math work on yield vs rate of return? If HMAX sustains 13% yield after a year, would that be the same as a 13% 1-year theoritical bond? Looking at total returns which include dividends on the prospectus, it is nowhere near 13%. I understand it's a young ETF. I'm just wondering on the math on yield vs rate of return or total return. Thanks!
Thanks for the explanation. Most of the Hamilton ETFs including this one writes covered calls on just 50% of their portfolio and the other 50% participates in the upside or downside as you mentioned. Looking at HYLDs performance for the last 1 year compared to its benchmark VSP (S&P 500), HYLD performed really really bad. Even if I consider that HYLD paid ~10% annual dividend on an average for the last 1 year, + it went down only 50% of what VSP went down(~13%), I could not find a clear graph showing the total return but I would love to see if you can cover that analysis for HYLD. I know there are costs associated with with-holding taxes + leverage (due to interest rates hike) etc. that would impact the performance as well, but simply put, then VSP is better option than HYLD. Even if I love that yield, but I also value total returns.
Would this be a good long term investment to create a pension if you don’t have one? It seems like this particular HMAX has a great dividend. Yes there is some risk but you are investing in like 10 basically Blue Chip companies. Seems like decent option. If you just want a reliable dividend to help additional money for a pension seems good. Or would this be considered risky for that?
Great explanation of this high yield ETF. So I imagine the tax situation is a bit complicated on non registered accounts, because part of it is taxed on capital gains, another part of its dividends.Do brokerages track this or the ETF report this?
Good vide. Strange you choose a "new" fund that has an inception date of January 2023 to illustrate your thinking. Not saying that the video is wrong but could have used many other longer term high yield ETF.
1. "good ROC" vs. "bad ROC" -- we don't get that; sounds like bunk 2. I've gotten great total returns from split share funds like SBC, probably because I swing trade them. Am I just lucky or can anyone do this?
I like the BNS strategy you used but I have further questions. In a rising market, selling at-the-money options will frequently result in you being assigned (forced to sell the underlying stock,) thereby forcing you to have to buy more stock (either the same company or another one) next month, eg. if BNS rises quickly to $75+, the option holder will exercise it. How does Hamilton expect to deal with the drag that will cause on the fund? Or do they only do this when they believe the stock will be in a small downtrend? It's all pretty dicey I think.
This is why funds like this do overnight offerings. I look at these types of investments as "rental properties ", until you hold them long enough to get your investment paid for 100% your not actually making money. Once they are paid for then they are producing passive income, before that the income is paying for the investment.
An ETF with this strategy needs a sector(s) like stable financials with lots of trading volume and no wild underlying stock price fluctuations. If this strategy performs, I believe it will expand, with HMAX as a starting point for more versions of this approach. Best of luck to them and to us.
Has to be said a million times - TOTAL RETURNS - never take your eye of it. Each year I review the holdings to determine which holdings are BOTH paying me nice dividends AND AND AND at the same time preserving (ideally increasing) the underlying value of the investment. And I move in OR OUT of investments accordingly.
Looking at history and watching the price curve sure help determine an entry point and the likelihood of preserving capital. There are also some very good RUclips channels on macro market-watching. For buying high-yield funds, entry point is huge.
Sir you forgot to mention what happens when the stock price goes above the at the money call and what the impact that has on the NAV. Would of been a better video if it wasn't sponsored tbh can't take this seriously
I don’t see it that way at all. Hearing explanations from fund managers is consistently the most informative content presented on these channels. Everything we see/hear should be taken as important components of our OWN equations, directions for our OWN due diligence. I see these people saying, AT MOST, what THEY like, not giving buying recommendations for what others should do.
Great video. Have recently realigned my RRSP portfolio to include some of these type of funds from Hamilton and Harvest and welcome the extra income as I am now drawing down my RRSP. Wish you would have covered off the aspect of leverage as some of these funds include that to further enhance the yield.
Once shares are sold , the fund must then rebuy some more shares , this repurchase transaction needs to be considered in the overall return ... seems rebuying a "falling knife" or rebuying in a strong bull market are situations a hmax might make it imperfect. Noone talks about the reinvesting mechanics , definitely need a skilled analyst to figure that out.
This is something I have asked before but am yet to get a reasonable answer. I can't believe other fund managers and investors are going to throw money away at options forever more unless they get a deal on some of them. That results in a sale of your holding, which also includes loss of the dividends it was generating. Then what do they do with that pot of money?
Yep, very true. Curious on all the specific holdings and weightings..no strategy is perfect so will have to use this ETF accordingly against the market we are and trust the manager of the fund. We are already in a bear market though…
The problem is: how can an investor knows about bad ROC? How to find that if the investor does not know how the etf is manage, how the call are made, on what fund, etc...etc...
@@James_48 Yep! CC strategy will over perform in flat or falling but otherwise will under perform (at least without leverage). *Edit: actually, checking 2022 and they performed identically in terms of TR, so even that advantage is gone ha
Great video ! Tell ya one thing all the negative comments on different funds make me laugh, we’re all doing a great job by investing in our future by buying all these funds, think about this , most people are wasting their hard earned cash away on drugs , booze and vehicles they can’t afford. Keep up the great work !
Marc, I too am old fashioned and like seeing assets growing over time. WRT to Pat's second comment, how does an investor determine if the portfolio is earning close to what it is paying out? With a single company you can look at the earnings per share and compare it to the dividend paid per share to see this info. Is similar data published on the fund's website or do we have to look at each holding and do our own math?
This is a great video, well explained. But I still wonder about it. I mean, this yield sounds too good to be true. SNP (and likely cdn financial sector) average return well under 13 percent, so doesn't this pretty much guarantee a loss of capital equal to the difference? It seems like they're offering the proverbial free lunch. I've invested in some CC ETFs already but eight of the ten I bought last year are down signficantly, and I'm wondering if I messed up.
He explained in the video (including the math) how that difference of the fund's higher yield vs the lower dividends of its holdings, is generated. (If that is what you mean.)
@Paulina Nelega No, that's not what I meant. I might buy this one myself. Just saying some RUclips gurus don't really have proper financial training and are making tons of money giving advice.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
My very first covered call ETF was a Hamilton Australia one that included real estate has since flipped over to Banking. Since then, I have several ETFs from BMO Hamilton and Horizon. I have had them for at least six years now and I have zero complaints. I have made very good money from them. The exciting thing is, they build my portfolio monthly so I can buy more. I am a huge fan of covered call and I’m going to continue being aggressive with it.
As I understand it there are two main ways many CC ETF's make income, which then gets distruibuted to shareholders;
1. Options premiums (the one way everyone talks about). If the fund is only writing on 30-50% of their holdings then the balance (50-70%) can go on to experience capital appreciation (or depreciation) of their holdings. By selling Calls they are locking in profits for investors. Not all Calls are actually called away, even ATM, but even if they are so what... we've already locked in profits with the Call premiums. Ok, so we have to repurchase shares... so what... just gonna turn around and sell Calls on them too.
2. Dividends (the other way that most people seem to forget). Let's not forget dividends, which can be substantial.
Good video but I think you've missed one important point. If the calls are at the money, then on average, at least half of them will be exercised (assuming stock price changes are random with a positive drift). When the calls are exercised, it forces the fund to sell its shares at the strike price but then to reestablish its position in the stock it must buy back the shares at the higher prevailing market price. In other words, by definition, every time one their calls is exercised, the fund loses money of varying magnitudes. Obviously Hamilton is well aware of this but it makes the seemingly stable income stream much less reliable than it might appear with significant losses possible, even if the underlying shares do not fall in value. Bottom line, there's absolutely no such thing as a free lunch. Sad but true!
you're right, most of covered called ETFs will be going down slowly unless underlyings are stying at the same level (1 scenario); if underlyings go up or down, ETF will go down as well especially if most of options premiums are given back to client through high dividend payments.
11 months later, you are right. it seems to follow the assets down but does not participate much in the upside of those assets when it happens.
The explanation of return of capital was great. I'd not really understood what other youtubers meant when they glossed it over and said "oh it's just for tax purposes" but your explaining the detail of the capital loss and the call premiums made that a lot clearer.
Excellent video! This needs to be shown to all the people who say "these funds are ALL dividend traps" etc. No they are not. They are designed like this and they simply work! Covered calls are only on 50% of the portfolio ( for HMAX as an example) so that leaves the other 50% for growth. Hamilton is an amazing and very smart fund manager and I will continue to buy, hold and dollar cost average into their funds that I like. Thanks again for this video. I agree with it.
same
Anddd.... It's another trap...
@@AsianVideoGamer Do you have examples as proof?
Went from 16.20 at the time of this vid to now 14.4. it was a pretty steep drop. 10% lost
@@AsianVideoGamer. The financial sector has dropped a lot during that time and since all the holdings in that fund are the Cnd banks, of course it is down. I don’t think there are any financial based funds that have not dropped during that time period, income based or not. I just see this as a better buying opportunity with a significantly higher yield, unless you feel the Cnd banks are going to just keep dropping forever, which I very much doubt. I fail to see how anything about that fund or this video is a trap.
Could you please take a few ETFs that contain good and bad ROC and show us how to look for them before purchasing?
As I tried to look for those information from the ETFs prospectus, statements etc but so far I wasn't able to find any ETF issuing companies listed the breakdowns.
I thought these information should be transparent
Yeah that would be great to see. It can be difficult to understand what to look for in a prospectus to tease out whether the ROC with the fund will be good or bad...
Hey Marc, I forwarded your video to a retired DIY'er investor. He was actually thinking of purchasing HMAX. I offered to put his question to you, as I am sure more than one of your viewers has the same question. Here it is:
"I have been looking at HMAX obviously the yield is attractive and lack of leverage is a plus for me.
Can the at the money options result in being called more frequently with even a small rise in price?
Would you then have to buy back the holding at a higher price, to maintain dividend flow therefore leading to a capital loss?
Or am I missing something?" Marc, thank you again for another superb presentation, hope the audience didn't think you were too "testy." ☺ 🇨🇦🍁📈
Good point. Writing ATM should mean you'd be exercised more often and then buy back at a higher price. I actually sent Hamilton this question and never heard back. Time will tell how the results work out.
Negative return since inception even with reinvested dividends.
Always appreciate Marc's perspective, even with sponsored videos you can tell he always maintains a non-biased, genuine stance to provide useful information and support for the viewers. HMAX in particular was one CC etf I had concerns about, thanks for this video
really? non-biased sponsorship. Wonder if Marc personally owns any?
@@bradrapids I would also like to know whether or not Marc personally holds HMAX, or plans to buy it. I don't and probably won't, but I still appreciate the info none the less. I believe they used some of the better metrics for calculation here. I think if you averaged all of the numbers, you wouldn't have that few % threshold safety net on the yield sustainability. I'm assuming its closer to par when you factor everything, but I haven't ran the numbers, so at least Marc gave us a bit of a benchmark
Thanks Marc, always appreciate your insights and clear explanations.
I'm really excited about this ETF, bought in the day it came out. Can't wait to see how it prefoms.
Hi Marc, Liked the video, but I was left with two questions that I see other people have already asked, but remain unanswered by you. Do you respond to questions in the comments? The questions are:
1. How does one tell "good" ROC from "bad" ROC? Seems pretty essential to know the difference.
2. If an ETF like HMAX is using at the money covered calls, even at 50%, then in a rising market don't they have to buy back their optioned positions the next month at a loss (ie, at a higher price than what they just sold in the option)?
Great questions. I've been asking other utubers the same questions but no one had replied
No they don't buy them back at a loss, they simply sell 50% of what they owned to those call options buyers. Basically your 50% positions would not have any capital gains, but you pocket the options premiums that you received in the beginning. Then the fund would have to buy back 50% of the underlying stocks at the current market trading price, and then sell at the money calls right away, basically the same process, rinse and repeat. So 50% of your holdings are moving with the market, while the other 50% is gaining from option premiums only (if the market goes up), but if the market goes down, you keep that 50% and sell at the money call options again for the next month.
hope this helps with your #2 question. but yeah, I have a love-hate relationship with at the money call options, XYLD on the US market employs 100% ATM calls which is kinda stupid (for me)
Can’t answer #1 but, although I wouldn’t describe it as buying back at a loss, you are essentially correct. This is why covered call strategies won’t capture the full upside in a bull market.
Guess the suspicion from us retail is I look at historical covered call banks and utilities vs just a regular etf of same sectors. And there's a massive return difference while a mild increase in yield. Plus a huge mer to pay. Hmax has no historical more than 1 month that I can see.
Great explanation of how HMAX produces its high dividend.👍👍
I bought HMAX when it first came out. I like this ETF because its holdings are Canadian Banks, other Financials, and insurance stocks. IMO a great group of stocks. How can you go wrong with these great holdings! I'm down a bit, but so are the majority of stocks. Still paying the monthly dividend, and I am confident the stock price will go back up. *_🤘ROC ON🤘_*
Thanks for your comment and for watching the video! - Marc
Thank you 🙏🏻
I hear so much criticism about income investing
I’m retired without a pension so for me creating enough cashflow maybe 50-60% of my portfolio to income that won’t grow as fast & then 40% to growth stock is my own comfort zone
I like that you don’t tell us what’s right or wrong but rather to do our own research & go from there ❤
Great video. In terms of good and bad ROC I think it would be helpful using actual fund examples to show the difference good and bad using their financial statements. They are often not easy to interpret so some guidance in this area would be helpful to your audience. For example, what line(s) in the financial statement would help one understand if the ROC is good or bad?
I agree with you. I think that would be helpful to the audience
Good question. Hope there'll be answers
Hopefully our “encouragement” will lead to such a video!!!!! (Wink, wink, hint, hint)
Good stuff. I am interested in Money Market ETFs such as PSA, ZMMK, etc. The market is too frothy for me right now.
Long time follower and investing academy member but I gotta be honest this video ruined it all for me.. 1 these sponsored videos are biased because Hamilton is obviously paying for the video so nothing of the bad sides will be talked about. 2 if you’re going to talk about Hamilton funds you can’t use Hmax as an example it’s only been around for a month and a half and has 0 track record in the market. Should have chosen Hyld if you wanted to show people an etf from them with a little history… Hmax hasn’t even paid it first dividend yet.
Well said
While his explanation was fairly detailed, I think he could've touched on what would happen to HMAX in the event that the fund needs to buy back the shares at a higher price (after calls are exercised by other party).
Advertising and sponsorship are ways of garnering attention and getting the word out there. How else are we supposed to know these things exist? I ENCOURAGE it, especially hearing a perspective from a fund manager directly. Marc has sufficiently proven his integrity to me to at least give him an open-minded watch/listen. Doing OUR OWN homework is a part of this equation.
Came here to comment on that. This was the worst video to have as a sponsored video.
These guys and Passive Income Investing are all snake oil salesmen.
Started out pure, built and audience, sold out for views and sponsorships.
You’re messing with people’s futures. How dare you guys peddle this crap to beginners.
Great video! I wish it wasn't sponsored by Hamilton ;) Either way, you did a great job explaining some of those misconceptions.
Without the sponsorship, there are no comments from the fund manager. I prioritize THAT, not sponsorship.
I bought a large some of ETF's this morning, QQQ, SCHD and TQQQ.
Thanks for the great video. It would interesting to know what the strategy is once the shares are called away if the strike price is reached. Do they simply turn around and repurchase those shares and immediately sell "at the money" calls ? and if so, with what time horizon ?
Great advice and good to pinpoint that it doesn't eliminate the upside potential just reduces it depending ont eh % of portfolio with the call overlay- Thank you for creatign this channel and educating people so they can make better decisions👍
How do we determine between a fund that erodes verses one that doesn't?
Look at the 1 and 5 year return
asking me to buy an ETF sponsored by the company who issued the ETF doesn't sound very convincing, but the content still convinced me to buy lol
Marc, this one is really, really, really, really, important to present....Did I tell you how really important your presentation was??? LOL....thank you for this Marc.....fYI, I have a hybrid portfolio of single stocks, ETF's cover call, and split corps...Diversification is Queen, and bring peace of mind, so hybrid portfolio's are diversified so conclusion hybrid portfolios bring peace of mind. We are all on a learning curve...enjoy the ride...Appreciate your presentation and having an "licensed expert" wane in on the topic. Perfect👍💯. 🇨🇦🍁 🙏from East Coast
13:25...you explained that so well even I understood it, thank you.
Good video Mr. Beavis. with a clear example about "AT THE MONEY" Covered Call ETF, are there other ETFS comparable to HMAX/UMAX that offer "At the Money"? Would be good to see comparable ETF products that offer high at the money covered call options.
This is an amazing video.
Thank-you for your time!
Thks you so much for this informative video! Is it possible to touch on circumstances that make covered calls ETF lose money?
I've got HMAX, it's a nice balance to my portfolio.
Awesome video Marc! HMAX may not be the ETF I'm looking for BUT the information you give is always 100% appreciated. This type of information can help us get more educated and so help make more informed decisions. Keep up the excellent work.
what happens when the shares are called away? I imagine this happens often since they are at the money?
in what document and section (typically) can one read about the "good & bad rock"
Well done Marc, I was wondering how HMAX was able to achieve the yield it was seeking with the 50% ATM strategy. The mechanics part of this video was quite informative. Thank you.
a lot of managers have been talking about good ROC and bad ROC where can you find info on the premium income generated on the fund to compare it to their ROC? or do we have to take their word for it
I've also been wondering about this, what numbers would suggest whether a high-yield fund is distributing good or "bad" ROC. I haven't seen this addressed (it needs to be), but I'm guessing following a history of NAV would be a strong clue. If it's historically slowly sinking like the setting sun unless there's a new offering, a deeper dive sounds warranted. Interested in other opinions or knowledge bases out there. Thanks.
Really good explanation, I would be curious to know the long term math if you reinvest the money you get from the options/dividend by buying more units of the covered call ETF? Intuitively, if you get that 14% yield and buy more shares, it seems like it would be an attractive way of buying more of the upside?
We are run a DRIP strategy on our high yield ETF’s. We are definitely seeing the compounding effect of our YOY cash flow
Thank you. This has been under my microscope for the past few weeks, and I hope to be on board. Are they eligible for dividend tax, and what rate?
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this, Marc. I've been trying to put together this puzzle for quite sometime now but it opens up more questions than answers. I really appreciate this. Would it be correct to assume that by selecting at-the-money calls gives a higher probability that it will be exercised? Thank you for sharing your wisdom! All the best to you and Brandon!
Yes. And then you have to buy back the shares at (possibly) a higher price... that's why you don't get the theoretical 18% yield he is talking about in the video. That's my assumption, i'm not sure what's the fund's stock purchasing strategy.
@@Astro-ck6mh exactly - 18% would only imply if stock price stays at the same level throughout the year..... also, if underlying price starts going down and you keep writing options ATM depending at which level you bought them you will start losing serious money - if you bought them lower then strike prices ATM you will be ok, but if your ATM strike price is lower than your purchase price, then you lose big...
Great video Marc. I find a lot of these high yields funds are having to do funky things these days to be the next hot fund. Selling at the money call options on Canadian banks, which have returned just shy of 11% annualized over the last decade, is one of those funky things. Yield looks nice now, but I cannot imagine this being a profitable endeavor over the long term and I am fairly confident this fund is going to underperform unless the big banks really struggle over the mid to long term.
Hi. Thanks for the amazing videos. They’re so helpful. I’m wondering about the likely sustainability of creating generational wealth by investing in these covered calls or other high dividend etfs or Reits such as NWH. Would it be possible for a retiree to live off the yield and then pass the shares to the next generation?
@@natasha-4287 short answer is yes.
Amazing video. (Watching it multiple times. Understand more each time.) I’m sure fund managers recognize the value of RUclips guesting. Patrick Somerville's ROC explanations add new clarification, e.g., bad ROC, 10’ 53” “… funds pay out more in distributions than what the underlying holdings are earning…”
Many of us are familiar with the bad ROC concept, but could you help us with (where to look for) what numbers suggest good or bad ROC? For instance, could it be as simple as finding NAV history? (Is this available?) If NAV is historically sinking like the setting sun (with the occasional new offering throwing investors off the trail), is this a strong indication of bad ROC?
Have not been able to find a source that takes this next level of deep dive to uncover what kind of ROC is distributed. Thanks, Marc!
Very well presented thanks for the information 👍
Hi Marc. Great video thanks.
You give us clarity 😉. I always love your point of view and the way you explain things. The mechanics of income was the best ✅
ok, but how do we tell if the fund we're looking at is Good ROC v Bad ROC?
I wish he had explained what would happen to the yield and value in rising market conditions.
My understanding is that you just get the 73$, using his example and the the funds has to replace that share at the higher price of the market goes up. So that would cut into the upside potential when markets recover.
Thanks so much. How does one determine bad roc?? Where does one look to see if distributions are less then the income earned? Pls point to the site pages where this data would be clear so an investor can make an informed decision. Both you and the fund manager omitted where to get this info. Similar to how a normal div stock has a payout %... Where is it for these funds or split shares
Terrific review Marc - appreciate you taking the time to share views from Mr Summerville as well as the the simple math behind the calculation of the potential returns on the funds. Keep up the awesome reviews and best to you and the team at investor academy.
Thanks, Dave. All the best. - Marc
if you live in the USA can these be purchased? if so what brokerage firm has it?
Marc love your perspective always. Your delivery is always so clear. Thank you for everything you and Brandon do. 💪🙏👍
I own HMAX and it seems perfect for high yield monthly cash flow, covered calls are not a growth asset
How does this compare to Evolve's BANK ETF ? Everything is higher with BANK, except for the stock price & fees.
The BNS dividend in your math will probably be half that because odds are the calls will get exercised before the ex-div date and you won't get dividends on half the shares.
Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone that part.
@T D, I thought so too
Probably won't get exercised before option expiry date. That is very rare. Also before you ate exercised the price of the stock needs to be above strike price plus premium paid( this is your cap). Problem arises when you want to buy back in to write mire covered calls. I don't think this fund sells naked puts to start the wheel all over again 🤔
Thank you
Great explanation... on the mechanics
Second question... do any of these funds guarantee to not eat into the capital for distributions?
If not... how does one know it's happening,... or better yet... know it will start happening soon... so one can get out of the way...?
Is one better of just running Wheel, Poor Man's covered Calls, [fill in the blank strategy] for one's self?
Great video very informative and straightforward! A question:
If one is already retired, should they hold an ETF like HMAX in a registered or non-registered account ( especially if TFSA AND RRSP are at max)
Thk!🇨🇦
I was wondering this as well
Amazing information on these ETF's. Thank you so much for making my investment strategy better each time I watch.
Would you be able to give an update on the total return of your high yield ETF vs the S&P500 with and without dividends reinvested?
Great explanation! How does the math work on yield vs rate of return? If HMAX sustains 13% yield after a year, would that be the same as a 13% 1-year theoritical bond? Looking at total returns which include dividends on the prospectus, it is nowhere near 13%. I understand it's a young ETF. I'm just wondering on the math on yield vs rate of return or total return. Thanks!
Thanks for the explanation. Most of the Hamilton ETFs including this one writes covered calls on just 50% of their portfolio and the other 50% participates in the upside or downside as you mentioned. Looking at HYLDs performance for the last 1 year compared to its benchmark VSP (S&P 500), HYLD performed really really bad. Even if I consider that HYLD paid ~10% annual dividend on an average for the last 1 year, + it went down only 50% of what VSP went down(~13%), I could not find a clear graph showing the total return but I would love to see if you can cover that analysis for HYLD. I know there are costs associated with with-holding taxes + leverage (due to interest rates hike) etc. that would impact the performance as well, but simply put, then VSP is better option than HYLD. Even if I love that yield, but I also value total returns.
And all those years I thought bad ROC was a reference to Nickleback.
Great video 👌
Great informative video Mark, well done.
Would this be a good long term investment to create a pension if you don’t have one? It seems like this particular HMAX has a great dividend. Yes there is some risk but you are investing in like 10 basically Blue Chip companies. Seems like decent option. If you just want a reliable dividend to help additional money for a pension seems good. Or would this be considered risky for that?
I generally don't read comment sections. If I want to see clowns, I'll go to the circus. Thanks for providing actual facts.
LOL.... great comment. Cheers.
Very good content Marc. Thanks. I like the interview part.
Great explanation of this high yield ETF. So I imagine the tax situation is a bit complicated on non registered accounts, because part of it is taxed on capital gains, another part of its dividends.Do brokerages track this or the ETF report this?
My hamilton GLCC is up 34% and it pays dividends every month. To be honest, i knew the interest rate cuts would never happen
great video ! Thanks !
How about DS AND LBS, are they good ? I mean do they return your capital as distribution?
Watched and liked, thanks Marc! Appreciate your passion and clear explanations.
Good vide. Strange you choose a "new" fund that has an inception date of January 2023 to illustrate your thinking. Not saying that the video is wrong but could have used many other longer term high yield ETF.
so, how can I tell if the Roc is bad or good on the financial statements? The fund is probably not going to say "this is bad ROC"...
thanks mark, i watch each video you posted, appreciate
Excellent video
Thank you for an informative video.
1. "good ROC" vs. "bad ROC" -- we don't get that; sounds like bunk
2. I've gotten great total returns from split share funds like SBC, probably because I swing trade them. Am I just lucky or can anyone do this?
Very informative I appreciate your video, I invest a bunch in covered. Like anything do your research
Great 👍 video. Excellent information on the subject.
Great Job! Thanks for all your hard work, and homework you do and share with us.
I like the BNS strategy you used but I have further questions. In a rising market, selling at-the-money options will frequently result in you being assigned (forced to sell the underlying stock,) thereby forcing you to have to buy more stock (either the same company or another one) next month, eg. if BNS rises quickly to $75+, the option holder will exercise it. How does Hamilton expect to deal with the drag that will cause on the fund? Or do they only do this when they believe the stock will be in a small downtrend? It's all pretty dicey I think.
that's why they are selling options on 50% of the portfolio, i.e. trading upside potential for income certainty.
The other concern is if the shares are called away before the ex-dividend date then they lose the dividend. :(
@@frugalguy The market price adjusts before/after the ex-div date
This is why funds like this do overnight offerings. I look at these types of investments as "rental properties ", until you hold them long enough to get your investment paid for 100% your not actually making money. Once they are paid for then they are producing passive income, before that the income is paying for the investment.
That was a great explanation.
The problem with hmax is that it's not diversified it is all financials
An ETF with this strategy needs a sector(s) like stable financials with lots of trading volume and no wild underlying stock price fluctuations. If this strategy performs, I believe it will expand, with HMAX as a starting point for more versions of this approach. Best of luck to them and to us.
Has to be said a million times - TOTAL RETURNS - never take your eye of it. Each year I review the holdings to determine which holdings are BOTH paying me nice dividends AND AND AND at the same time preserving (ideally increasing) the underlying value of the investment. And I move in OR OUT of investments accordingly.
I agree. No point in getting a higher dividend yield if your original amount invested keeps decreasing!
Looking at history and watching the price curve sure help determine an entry point and the likelihood of preserving capital. There are also some very good RUclips channels on macro market-watching. For buying high-yield funds, entry point is huge.
Sir you forgot to mention what happens when the stock price goes above the at the money call and what the impact that has on the NAV.
Would of been a better video if it wasn't sponsored tbh can't take this seriously
Agreed. The fact that this video is sponsored makes me wary.
sponsored video always sounds like a advert in sheep clothes. Wonder if Marc actually owns some?
I don’t see it that way at all. Hearing explanations from fund managers is consistently the most informative content presented on these channels. Everything we see/hear should be taken as important components of our OWN equations, directions for our OWN due diligence. I see these people saying, AT MOST, what THEY like, not giving buying recommendations for what others should do.
Great video, thanks for all the information.
Great video. Have recently realigned my RRSP portfolio to include some of these type of funds from Hamilton and Harvest and welcome the extra income as I am now drawing down my RRSP. Wish you would have covered off the aspect of leverage as some of these funds include that to further enhance the yield.
Once shares are sold , the fund
must then rebuy some more shares , this repurchase transaction needs to be considered in the overall return ... seems rebuying a "falling knife" or rebuying in a strong bull market are situations a hmax might make it imperfect. Noone talks about the reinvesting mechanics , definitely need a skilled analyst to figure that out.
This is something I have asked before but am yet to get a reasonable answer. I can't believe other fund managers and investors are going to throw money away at options forever more unless they get a deal on some of them. That results in a sale of your holding, which also includes loss of the dividends it was generating. Then what do they do with that pot of money?
I would like clarification on this as well.
Me as well as well as a retired DIY'er investor. Good point Dean and D.Anderson👍💯🇨🇦
Yep, very true. Curious on all the specific holdings and weightings..no strategy is perfect so will have to use this ETF accordingly against the market we are and trust the manager of the fund. We are already in a bear market though…
The problem is: how can an investor knows about bad ROC? How to find that if the investor does not know how the etf is manage, how the call are made, on what fund, etc...etc...
A video on this with examples would be golden!
This would make owning the banks completely pointless, as a consistent 13% return alone out performs the banks by dripping
Hence why I'm almost certain that it will result in erosion of capital/be unsustainable. ZWB has higher total return so far.
@@djayjp yeah, and ZWB’s total return is pathetic up against ZEB which is the non-covered call option.
@@James_48 Yep! CC strategy will over perform in flat or falling but otherwise will under perform (at least without leverage). *Edit: actually, checking 2022 and they performed identically in terms of TR, so even that advantage is gone ha
Lets goooo awesome video as always!!
can you explain the leverage portion on these ETFs? can't they be called on the leverage they have if the market drops?
Hey what happens when they get exercised? Do they have to cut their dividend?
Puzzled. Since the fund only takes 50% of the option yield, I assume that rest goes into the fund as cap.?
Thank you
Great video, thank you Mark!
Great video ! Tell ya one thing all the negative comments on different funds make me laugh, we’re all doing a great job by investing in our future by buying all these funds, think about this , most people are wasting their hard earned cash away on drugs , booze and vehicles they can’t afford. Keep up the great work !
Thanks.
love your videos marc. dont ever stop posting!
thanks for the video Mark
I was waiting for a video like this one ☝️ 👍
Marc, I too am old fashioned and like seeing assets growing over time. WRT to Pat's second comment, how does an investor determine if the portfolio is earning close to what it is paying out? With a single company you can look at the earnings per share and compare it to the dividend paid per share to see this info. Is similar data published on the fund's website or do we have to look at each holding and do our own math?
ETFs have to publish their financial results every Quarter just like publicly traded companies
One approach is to use portfolio visualizer and measure CAGR over time (as well as making head to head total return comparisons a breeze)
This is a great video, well explained. But I still wonder about it. I mean, this yield sounds too good to be true. SNP (and likely cdn financial sector) average return well under 13 percent, so doesn't this pretty much guarantee a loss of capital equal to the difference? It seems like they're offering the proverbial free lunch. I've invested in some CC ETFs already but eight of the ten I bought last year are down signficantly, and I'm wondering if I messed up.
Hope your not taking advice some so guy on RUclips that is not a licensed advisor and his channel as stated is for entertainment purposes.
He explained in the video (including the math) how that difference of the fund's higher yield vs the lower dividends of its holdings, is generated. (If that is what you mean.)
@Paulina Nelega No, that's not what I meant. I might buy this one myself. Just saying some RUclips gurus don't really have proper financial training and are making tons of money giving advice.
@@RenosVids My reply was directed to OP (Zxborg).
@@RenosVids if you call that the "advice," then my opinion is you're not doing enough of your own homework.
Always great stuff.
Calls at the money have greater chances to get exercised? Am I wrong?