The Millennium Falcon is Overrated "Junk"?
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2024
- The Millennium Falcon is a great ship. And yet, I don't want one. What I'd like is a completely different light freighter.
Personally, I'm not the greatest mechanic. There are things I'd be able to handle on my own, but really I need a helping hand. Or a dozen of them.
#millenniumfalcon #shadowsoftheempire #starwars #starwarslegends
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Narration recorded in partnership with THE WARDROBE (IG: @wardobestudionz).
#00:00 Shopping for a Ship
#14:05 Shopping for a Droid
#20:58 Outro 
Развлечения
"This is what all 7 of you were waiting for." - referring to the Outrider
Bruh
You didn’t need to call us Shadows of the Empire fans out
I hope the likes stay at 7
There are dozens of us!!
what we lack in number we make up for in passion!
We needs a Shadows of the Empire movie and one that feels like vintage Star Wars
Where the other SOTE fans?
I really like a Star Wars lore channel that isn't just reading off wookipedia articles. That was fun.
One of my favorite lore video is the one answering the question of the comfiest seat on the Jedi council. Because that is the kind of deep lore we really need.
This is a nearly perfect example of the "quintescential nerd conversation". Way more detail than is really needed. But perfectly and meticulously supported. Loved the video, bring my back to arguing with my cousins over which ship in the TIE-FIGHTER dog fighting game we would rather personally own.
The good ol days XD , I'd go with the classic standard, the Tie Fighter. Awful cockpit but great aesthetic. What would you choose, out of any Star wars non capital ship?
@@Blessed_V0id I'm a huge fan of the TIE Interceptor. But things like the B-Wing, or TIE Defender would be pretty neat as well. Don't know why but I lean toward those heavier "Multi-role fighter" models.
Central mounted Astromech in a delta seven check the clone wars tv series
I’d say it has exactly as much info as needed
It's so enjoyable to get some well thought out lore comparisons and thought about the details that make star wars so immersive in the first place
2:31 "How does one acquire such military grade equipment?" Well, you see...
~First the players need to determine what kind of military grade equipment they want (common or rare, old vs current vs experimental, overall quality, which faction's military, etc.).
~Then the GM needs to gauge the difficulty of obtaining it based on the above criteria and the overall cost.
~Next the players check their talent trees to see if they "know someone" and/or have other perks that will either lower the difficulty or upgrade their dice pool.
~Finally, if the players have enough credits and succeed in their roll, then they'll get such military grade equipment.
I'm sorry, these videos really make me geek out on Fantasy Flight's Star Wars tabletop games.
im an imperial General i just flash by rank badge and i get what i want
I run the old West End Games RPG. Brilliant stuff.
I think a better way would to suggest, assuming you can leave the main narrative, a hit, basically, to go get the equipment. Unless you are already part of a military organization acquiring modern or certainly experimental military tech should be quite difficult in the time of the Empire.
@@isimiel3405 Sir!
@@pubcle My last game did have heists as a theme, though they were allied with the Empire. They managed to even have stormtroopers guard them while stealing fuel from right under their nose!
Han and Chewbacca knew people, so they got a bonus on their rolls.
Then Lando also knew people and Lea could easily get anything she wanted.
@19:48 Anakin's Custom Delta-7B Aethersprite-class light interceptor "Azure Angel", from the original Clone Wars series, has a centrally mounted Astromech forward of the cockpit.
Oooh good one, I forgot about that! Good memory, video ruined.
@@smileyp4535 video ruined, disappointment immeasurable :P
So did the other variant of the Delta-7 seen in the 3D clone wars series, in that one every Jedi has a newer variant of the Delta-7 with a centerline astromech socket, including Obi Wan.
@@Slender_Man_186 I didn't know that variant was also used in the Clone wars 3d series. I have a slight bias toward the original 2d series tbh.
Plo koons blade of Dorin also has it.
19:54 I believe the clone wars animated show has a number of centrally mounted astromech droids in delta 7's, whether you consider that a reliable source or not is another question
Reliable? It's canon, what do you mean?
@@Sky_Guy yeah, but there's some artistic license taken in the clone wars show, so it might be that it's actually the same ship looking different in the different styles
@@Agarricus WAIT! Artistic license? So you're telling me Count Dooku doesn't have an Easter-Island head in the official lore? Blasphemy!
@@Agarricusthe artistic differences are more designs of the characters and slight changes to the ships but I think this is to big of a change to be considered an “artistic license”
it's actually a second variant of the aether sprite
The ship with a class 0.6 hyperdrive is the Jade Shadow. It was a SoruSubb Horizon-class star yacht originally owned by Mara Jade. After the fall of the Empire and Mara Jade joining the New Jedi Order (and eventually starting a relationship with Luke Skywalker), Mara and Luke had Han upgrade the ship's hyperdrive - which Han gladly did on the grounds that he wouldn't make it faster than the Falcon.
Really? I didn't know that.
That's such a Han thing to do.
"Haha yeah sure man I'll do it free of charge too pal. Since we've been though so much and you introduced me to my wife."
*Dead-Pan Eye-Contact*
"But I'm not gonna make us Equal."
*Slaps Side of Fulcan*
"She's always gonna be the best."
The reason he says it can't be verified, is because Mara Jade and the Jade Shadow are not (yet) canon.
I play a Star Wars MUD (for the uninitiated a MUD is a text based online game) where you can design your own ships. Everyone wants something of the approximate size and function as the millennium falcon because its just the right size for anything. It can haul small amounts of cargo if you are bored and want menial work to make money, Large enough to chew up fighters and survive against something bigger until you jump into hyperspace, large enough for spacious living quarters and small enough that you do not need a crew if you do not want to.
And yet we do not have an accepted name for that ship size, so I like to call them 'Brigs' at 20-40 meters and defined by their ability to fit in conventional starfighter hangers. While I call things at the 50-90 m range like a Gozanti or GR-75 a 'Sloop'.
What's the game called?
It's called a "hero ship" for a reason. Expanse's Rocinante is similar. Razor Crest and Firesprays too.
What is the MUD?
Wait, there is a text based mud still running? Please tell me where!
4:48 The Acclamator class assault ship had a hyperdrive rating of 0.6, which is insane because such things would be decades-old by the time of the OT and was a mass-produced light capital warship.
They don't build em like they used to , I guess.
Virtually all the stats on the Aclamator are absurd exagerations from the incredible cross-sections book who's author was a total wanker and wrote all of it in a dick-measuring contest with StarTrek. It's so riddled with inconsistency and internal logical errors that it should be discarded in it's entirity. While Acclamator might be faster then Venator theirs no way it was so far ahead of every other warship in the galaxy.
There were also fuel inefficient.
@@mazz2622*Gestures at the Rakata*
*Gestures at the Gree*
*Gestures at the Old Republic GSI droids*
The Acclamator *was* designed as one of the first long haul supply and troop carriers of the Grand Army of the Republic, and its main purpose was to move a LOT of troops all over Republic territory ASAP at the outbreak of the war
Can't say I'd heard of the Ghtroc 720, but it looks like a charming ship! There's no way it wasn't sea turtle inspired.
I thought the reason he was going to give was because it looks exactly like a turtle 😂
Star Wars RPG by West End Games... it was featured in their Adventure Journal.
A heavily modified SoroSuub Horizon-class Star Yacht. Call it the Emerald Shade or something like that. Maybe keep a Z-95 Headhunter in the aft docking bay. Definitely a R9 astromech and maybe a jedi spouse.
Might want to be careful, don't want it to end up being used as a remote torpedo against an Imperial installation and have to shell out for a replacement. 😆
14:58 slight correction, R5 was never stated in anything canonical to have done this. It came from one comic that was written as a joke. The same comic said he was force sensitive too, so I'm not sure it's the most reliable source, and that's honestly by design.
What about the book "From a certain point of view"?
@@derpoltergeist8265 What about it?
@@MalachiCo0 I think it is canonical and states that R5 helped R2 by blowing his motivator up.
@@derpoltergeist8265 Some narratives within FACPOV can be assumed to be canonical, and some less so.
The collection of stories have some which bare dubious canonicity.
@Ashan Bhatoa not really how canon works but
There's a channel idea I'd watch: Top Gear SW
Edit: I only made it to 7:01 before writing a comment. I like your style.
This could be considered pedantic, but with regard to the complaint about anakin’s starfighter, please pause the video at 20:37; if you look at the bottom of the port side wings on both obi wan and anakin’s ships, they have a small sidecar compartment, one which has enough space for the body of an R2 unit; the compartment is also visible in the previous shot, on mustafar, where there appears to be enough space for R2 inside if we take the measurement from the first frame with R2 fully ejected and account for the roughly 15 degree change of direction R2 is performing in midair.
Another piece of evidence, albeit slightly less solid due to it being from a toy and not the films, is the lego set for “anakin’s jedi interceptor” which i had as a kid, that had a compartment for R2 in the wing much like the ones on the ships in the video, and if you dont believe me, feel free to search the quoted name and see for yourself.
I like that the ship looks like a sea turtle. ☺️💙🐢
R4 in the delta 7 obi wan pilots in AOTC is an intergrated droid that was just a head that couldnt be removed from the ship. There was no body casing and legs with the body internals kept within the hull. As for R2D2 in ROTS that is a mistake.
I think Anakin modified his fighters to be compatible with R2
This is exactly the kind of theorizing I love. I will watch your career with great interest
This is my favorite kind of content. This is how you do self inserts. Normally self inserts are hated, and for good reason.
Media is plagued with god-like Mary Sue's and Marty Stu's, as it is... all simultaneously existing in a vacuum bubble outside of canon.
But this... This is well thought out, well researched, transparently honest, and wholly immersive.
I really, really, love these kinds of self-insert thought experiments. Especially when you run down the cost. That's as real as real can get.
Looking forward to seeing more... essays... for lack of a better word... done in this style.
I like the "if I were a regular guy in that universe" self-inserts. One doesn't always has to be the hero. The majority of people in fiction would be regular people doing regular jobs.
I had the same thought about Star Trek. I wouldn't want to be the captain of the fastest, most advanced, baddest starship. I'd much prefer something smaller, more manageable, as sort of independent contractor.
I wish more stuff like this was on RUclips, this dnd style customization I just love
"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts kid."
Man you are on a roll, these videos are great. It's like The Spiffing Britt for SW nerds.
Ah a fellow man of culture i see. Spiffing day to you chap, may your Yorkshire Tea Gold be blessed.
Here I was, feeling self conscious for liking the Wayfarer-class Medium Transport as much as I do, a ship that originated in an RPG rather than having a more noble pedigree, and then you go and mention the Ghtroc 720.
They're both basically designed to be nearly perfect for a party of traveling misfi- uh, heroes.
Love the video quality cant wait for more people to discover this channel
All shall FEAR! The mighty Space Turtle!!!
I've been loving your videos lately, shocked to see you only had 5k subscribers. Keep it up!
_edit: yes I wrote a comment before the six minute mark what does that have to do with anything-_
“You came in that thing? You’re braver than I thought.” - all my friends, meeting my girlfriend they disapprove of
💀
Bruh.
I’ll take a VCX-100, because I have more cargo to haul than a YT-1300 or 2400 could handle.
I would want an hwk-290 light freighter.
It is small enough to fly like a X-wing, but big enough to have sleeping arrangements. Easy to modify. Optional Variable Engine geometry, magnalock (magnetically sealed) dorsal docking hatch. Able to carry up to five cargo containers of various types via magnalock plating on Variable geometry engines (magnetically sealed to the hull until released), Optional ventral twin ion cannon Turret/twin laser cannon Turret/twin heavy Blaster Turret (no stock Turret, only room for one Turret at a time), 4 engine mounted Laser cannons (modified from stock X-Wing laser cannons). 1.0 military grade hyperdrive with matching Navcom. Definitely would want a Dedicated Astromech droid for astrogation aid and space based repairs.
So, regarding the Delta 7, there _is_ actually a variant with a center-mounted Astromech, we just don't see it in the movies. It's the Delta 7B. This variant has the droid socket in the center in front of the cockpit, and to compensate for the new visual obstruction, moves the cockpit upwards and backwards a bit. We see this variant used in the Clone Wars before the introduction of the Eta 2 Actis.
Thank you, I could feel my life force slipping away at 19:51
I was one of the seven.
Nerd!
I had it TTRPG group pick up that ship for the exact same reason too, except for one extra modification, you can modify the cargo bays to fit in a fighter, or pick up some recovered vulture droids and deploy them.
man.... your love for star wars and attention to the details is so goddam beautiful. I love these videos so much. Started with that 12 hr Ep1 vid and haven't stopped... more plz thx
19:48 the Delta 7B from the Clone Wars, a show that is apart of canon and legends, has a thicker midsection to allow for a full R series astromech to be inserted. The older Delta 7 can only fit the head and it’s internal components. After the start of the Clone Wars, R4 was torn out of the her Delta 7 and given a full body
As much as I love the flying brick with guns that is the YV 929 armed freighter, if we’re focusing on saving money I’m going with a Barloz class medium freighter. Still a CEC ship. Only 70,000 credits. It’s old, but reliable and tough with 150tons of cargo. The bay itself can fit an A wing easily. Class 2 hyperdrive comes stock with back up
Class 10. There’s only 1 laser cannon turret but that can be swapped out and more added. For droids I’d go with an R4, and probably some kind of protocol or service droid to help with translations, paperwork, and loading cargo.
Woah, was just wondering when your new video would come out a few hours ago. Lucky me.
I kind of want more of this, it would be fun to listen to a bunch of this sort of talk!
This channel will be massive soon I can already tell
Awesome captions/subtitles. Totally subscribing and giving a perpetual thumbs up. Thank you for being considerate to your audience.
Love this video, reminds me so much of the West End Games Star Wars RPG
Really loving these videos! Keep it up dude 🤙
If you need cargo space, just go for the Action VI freighter. It's slower, but who needs speed when you can take a whole Home Depo store stock in one haul.
11:26 you can’t convince me that this ship wasn’t designed to look exactly like a turtle
In that final shot of the Jedi fighters, they showed a big bulky box showing up beneath the droids, making the hull thicker there. I only now noticed that.
Yep, on the port wing there is a box for accommodating a suitable astromech which is visible in that shot of the Eta-2 Actis. This is shown is the Star Wars Complete Cross-Sections book if one looks closely at the relevant entry.
At 20:37 you can see a huge ass bucket under the heads of R2 and R4. They have the space there. It just makes the ship a bit wonky.
Love these videos mate ,keep em up
Fun video, successfully & entertainingly plumbing the depths of the WEG (and WotC) RPG books.
On the Astromech/Eta-2 issue, the cross-sections do show a boxy structure below the droid socket, which could just-about house R2, with his shoulders protruding and his legs telescoped-up the same way they do in the Naboo N1 socket. This requires less distortion of local space than it does to have the actors standing upright in the Millennium Falcon!
Also, as others have noted, we never see R2 in a standard Delta 7 wing socket, just the central-line socket versions in both the Tartakovsky CW and Filoni et al TCW series. So the spherical R4-P series explanation can definitely work.
in that cross section drawing of obi wan’s delta 7, there is only a head so r4 cant be spherical or have a body, most likely it was just the head. in the 2008 clone wars i believe all of the delta 7s were a 2nd version (delta 7b) with an astromech in the middle rather than being offset, so they could fit the bodies. i think by this point r4 probably wouldve got a body as now hed be able to completely fit inside the starfighters, and later on also fit inside the eta 2s thanks to that bulge under the wings which you pointed out
I want one. Also, this is the way a star wars video should be made
Love your snarky approach to Star Wars!
This is what I used to contemplate for years as a teenager. With those same original 'essential guide' books from the 90's. I'm glad I wasn't the only one.
At the very start of the channel, those Essential Guide books were just about all the references we used . I loved the style of those books, it came to exactly the same result. You definitely weren't the only one. It was wonderful to get a (nearly) full Essential Guide set a few years ago. -DZ
Happy to say I was one of the 7 waiting for the mention of Shadows of the Empire
It’s very impressive how much you know about Star Wars lore!
Endless Skies on steam has a well developed ship modification system that fits very well with this video, a cargo economy, combat/bounty hunting, and it has a good modding community/support to add star wars content
Starfield has nice ship modification and that is literally it lmao
Great tour of ship designs!
Loved it! Also, always wanted a game where I could make my own ship! Make it! X)
one interesting thing I noticed recently was where the computer aesthetics came from in Star Wars. I was watching some videos about 70's computers like the Altair 8800 and the big IBMs and if you look at those, they look like Imperial control panels, which makes sense being the computers of the day.
That was nice, would enjoy more discussion on droid series.
my top 3 picks for a suitable smaller ship would be a sentinel-class imperial landing craft, a zeta-class heavy cargo shuttle, or a YT-1930 (though with heavy mods to maintain the 1300-style side-set cockpit and more intact saucer-shape of the body, and resulting in the engines being moved back ..... also, a big honking turbolaser strapped onto the hull, like a jousting knight and his lance).
For larger ships, my top 3 would be an Arquitens-class, a Baleen-class heavy freighter, or an Acclamator class ship.
Ngl, I always saw the Falcon as something like a mobile home that also doubled as a tug boat. Kind of like a long hauler in real life has a mini apartment in the rigs cab for the misses or your whole family. Friend of mine takes his misses and two youngest with him everywhere now that his oldest kid went off to a boarding school.
Oh hey, I built a tiny Lego Ghtroc 720 for my rebel fleet just two days ago. Awesome to come across this video so soon after.
woah, Venture Bros AND Stingray? Very Based.
I'd want a C-ROC Gozanti-class light cruiser. Super cool ship design IMO, plus all the cargo space you'd ever need!
The Turtle Freighter for the hipsters.
It would be nice to have some new ships though.
Great video series!
I just KNEW you were going to pick the turtle.
i would reccomend VCX-100 as the ship known as the "Ghost" was upgraded to hell and was far more reliable than the falcon
Shoutout to the OG Homeworld soundtrack playing in the background.
Never spent any credits on a funkopop, ey? Never will you say? You had my curiosity, now you've got my attention and subscription!
It seems to me that @20:37 there are docks for the Droids visible at the underside of both Anakins and Obi-Wans Actis.
As an old school hard core Trekkie I loved this. I enjoyed Star Wars and love how the Star Wars fans are as obsessed as we are about canon
I didn't now know there was this side to starwars. This is a huge appeal of Gundam. Different manufacturers and millitary configurations.
I object to the notion of hyperdrives not being possible to throttle up or down- otherwise how would we explain the Millenium Falcon arriving with the rest of the Rebel fleet in VI to attack the Death Star II, instead of days earlier? It's obviously possible for faster ships to 'decrease' (increase) their hyperdrive class to not get ahead of other, slower ships when necessary, even if the same doesn't work in reverse.
Rare that I learn so much from a vid
this is quickly becoming my favourite star wars based channels
I remember in a Star Wars D20 RPG game and I used the deck plans of the Beowulf Free Trader from Classic Traveller, a great game to pull deck plans from for other games. I didn't need all of the fuel tankage so that became space for more weapons and storage.
The decannonized Correlian XS Freighter is a whole ass house in space
7:22 isn't that the Duracrud? "It's a brick with wings and a hull that leaks gases like a flatulent Hut" -- Uran Lavint
the eta-2 can has a clearely visible extended zone for astromech droids
Serenity was considered “junk” too. But they both have character and they are those peoples homes, so they have an understandable attachment to them.
If you look closely, you can see a room underneath the droids on Obi Wan’s and Anakin’s fighters, showcasing where the lower half of the droids go.
I liked the RetCon that it was essentially like a Shunter train, with a huge number of cargo units attached to the front.
Being practically all engine and constantly jury rigged and cobbled, i also see it as a Hot Rod. =]
The Delta 7b athersprite was the refit done during the clone wars that fit a whole astromech socket Infront of the cockpit
My dream ship is the Consular-Class Cruiser retrofitted for mining asteroids in a nice Caterpillar yellow.
7:12 so true. In Empire at War you can also see and command Bosks YT-666 Freighter.
I've always been partial to the
Lancer-class Pursuit Craft, they're nice and speedy while still allowing me to carry some lighter cargo
One of my huge regrets in life, is I never did figure out why Bossk wanted to stroke the elf. I salute that enigmatic lizard.
Finally good to see someone who knows how canon actually is, or atleast IS NOT the whim of an IP owner or even creator. Technically canon is the set of works BY someone, so their is no 'StarWars canon' their is a George Lucas canon which includes all his works regardless of any attempt to disown them, though remakes and edits of such work is also canon if he made it. Thus canon can be contradictory and should not be confused with a continuity, a set of narrative events which are taken as true for the creation of subsiquent narratives, their is no universaly recognized continuity in StarWars particularly because Lucas refused to let his own past work constrain him, the prequels for example egregiously contradict the OT on several points both implicit and explicit. People focus on Han shooting first because it's so blatant, sloppily done and narrativly dumb, but facts like Leia remembering her mother, or uncle Owen clearly having knowning and disaproving of Anakin and Obiwan's 'damn fool crusade' are not talked about as much.
My choice would be a YT-600 series. I want small and agile, and looks count, too :) - But not a starfighter! Imagine loading up on supplies, weapons and a St. Bernard dog, then piling into a Porsche to go across the US? The later model 600s are dirt cheap, 20 meters overall, and have a raised cockpit, so you can see over the cargo wings. Buy a junk one (or find an actual junked one), strip it to the bulkheads, check and shim all welds, up-gauge the vertical supports, install armored cable ducts, and cut and glue Duroplast for an inner lining. Then repair and upgrade each component as they go back in: Larger (or dual) power Core, remanned engines, fitted with a bolt-on Compressor, and modded (or re-engineered) as much as you dare, Up the hyperdrive to an X1, or get one off of a 630 "Shuttle", install a shield, better sensors (off an A- or B- wing wreck, perhaps), a ventral Turret ring, and dual- or triple Laser Cannon on both turrets. You COULD mount Heavy Laser Cannon, but you'd be flying a pair of guns attached to a ship, which attracts attention! For droids, I'd go with an R2 or similar, but salvaged and built into the ship systems. A Pit droid, and a Sullustan Repair Spider, specialist at fixing cables. A pair of B1/BX hybrids, reconfigured for Security (legal under permit in many systems), and a Treadwell for general cleaning and butlering. With a big enough bucket of credits, any freighter can get good stats. It's the feel, and the story behind, that counts!
19:56 in star wars the clone wars we see the delta 7b aethersprite which has a centrally allined astromech slot.
You reignited my joy of Star Wars.
I'd want the Deep Water, especially as a smuggler. That ability to dive is just too useful.
When I was writing bad fan fiction, my character acquired a ratty R5 that was clever but very snippy and prone to cursing. The young smuggler identified with the droid and replaced most of the cheap parts that caused the droid to malfunction. The droid was also fitted with some sophisticated slicing hardware, but not with an upgraded personality matrix. The droid remained irritable and prone to cursing. It was devoted to its captain and those few people it considered friends and had little patience with anybody else.
I'd go for an R5 unit, they invite all manner of after market modifications, and they are some of the only droids that come with a unique personality straight out of the box.
There is a delta 7 with a center mounted astromech slot, the B variation seen in the clone wars show
5:53 - If what you say here is true, then you are obliged to acknowledge that the Millennium Falcon does _not_ have a "class .5 hyperdrive" at all. Instead, the Falcon can "make .5 past lightspeed" - As in, the maximum speed of the Falcon is 1.5. times the literal speed-of-light. After all, _"you can't just go and change something. (....) Not even Lucas has the authority to alter canon."_
I want you to know I appreciate the Stingray clip at 10:24 immensely
The Jabitha was a ship designed specifically for Anakan when on a mission to Zonama Sekot with Obi-Wan Kenobi as a young padawan. It had a hyperdrive rating of 0.4 (book Rogue Planet). However it was destroyed not long after taking possession of it.
The Acclamator class Assault ship had a 0.6 hyperdrive rating.
if i was gonna put any kind of turret on a ship it'd be those ball turrets the LAAT's used.
The GHTROC 720 would also be my go-to ship, but I would make some mods. For one, replace the crew cabins with equivalents that are suited for humanoids.
Endless Sky is 2D graphics and text but amazing and fun. It's got a rich world with a lot of storylines and missions. It's got a large list of ships alien and human that you can buy and customization that's limited by your imagination and ship stats and skill with numbers. You can control your own fleet. Also free and editable. You can even go into the text and modify game stats if you wanted to give yourself a head start financially.
It's free, so check it out at least.
Endless Sky has been added to my account and downloaded. A lightweight, free game with a parts list that large has to be worth a try. From the screenshots, it reminds me of the ship customisation in Gratuitous Space Battles. I'll give it a try in my next gaming session.
Thanks for the recommendation. Always like a game where it's easy to override the default game stats. My first attempt at a mod was increasing the top speed of a ship in Homeworld 1. That game turned out to have more physics than I bargained for: they all crashed. Without any other stat changes, they couldn't fly right. -DZ