The Usual Suspects: Earth & Titan
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2010
- / sciencereason ... The Usual Suspects: Earth and Titan.
A scientist goes to California's Death Valley to unravel the mysteries of a Titan lake.
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great, thanks for sharing
Steve Wall starts the video by saying that "Since we're probably never going to get to the surface of Titan", so, why can't a sample return mission be conducted ?
Titan would be a very interesting place to land a "Mars" style robotic rover to conduct on site exploration and science but adding facilities to collect samples and provide a means to return to Earth with these samples could open a huge range of technologies and exploration.
Up there on the Roman torture device, He cried out to Himself to ask why He had forsaken Himself and to beg Himself to forgive these people, for they knew not that they sacrificed Him to Himself as part of that great plan that He Himself drew up.
Then He died, spent the weekend away, rose from the grave and ascended into Heaven to reunite with Himself and to spend the rest of eternity sitting at His own right hand.
Fascinating.
Be amazing once we have real time footage from all these moons and planets
@Steaphany A sample return mission would be exceedingly difficult with current technology. Just think about how hard it is to get a probe out there in a timely manner. A return probe from the moon or Mars, maybe, but a return probe from Titan would literally be a single mission with a two generation timescale. And that isn't even accounting for the difficulty of designing a mini launch station that can deal with Titan's conditions. The probe would be a technical nightmare, and huge to boot.
enlightening
@Serge1965 It took me a while to find your comment to reply to it. But, its an interesting perspective you have. I feel as though I was watching a video about the comparison of geological features on Titan compared to Earth with land masses and a lake bed. I have knowledge all the way back to the 70's when they started Voyager. So, following how much knowledge has been gained about other planets and moons is interesting to me. The narrator was a great host. That's how I interpreted it.
@julsHz Not that you have to worry about the temperature, since it is liquid methane, it would pretty much melt your skin off either way.
Why does he say that we probably won't be able to reach Titan's surface?
Why did he say we'd never be able to go to Titan?
@LeMarquisDivin No worries. Sorry if the forced brevity of a youTube comment sounded harsh. I find that most people are horribly misinformed about the accomplishments of various space programs (and about science in general, really). In general, even when I feel confident about a fact, I tend to look it up before posting, just to be sure. Also, just being a bit nit picky, but as far as I know, we haven't landed anything on Mercury either.
@LeMarquisDivin "been done before for the Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury."
Uhm, no we haven't. The only serious sample return missions have been the Apollo landings. The soviets managed a few automated missions that collectively returned barely a handful of lunar dust, but that's it. We have, however, already sent a simple observational probe (Huygens) to Titan, and that alone was a monster of a task. Unless our lifespans quadruple, I doubt anyone alive today will see samples returned from Titan.
@Serge1965 I see. But. I think we can both agree that when you post something incongruent to the subject , you provoke a response. In other words, you knew your action would call that feeling of being attacked into your life. For some reason, you need to experience that and that's OK. Just don't put the blame on the people responding. Its your issue.
@Serge1965 "I can also attest..."
Attesting is not demonstrating.
"I will accept your apologies for the knuckle-head comment."
Are you going to make up your mind about why man fell?
@lazyperfectionist1
first premise: You left this message on the Internet because you knew that others would be able to read it.
second premise: This would not have been possible if the Internet didn't work.
conclusion: You have confidence in the Internet
first premise: You have confidence in the Internet.
second premise: The Internet is one of the achievements of science.
conclusion: You have confidence in the achievements of science.
@julsHz Think the slingshots make the spacecraft get there quicker, but they could still get there without it but it would just take a lot longer
@julsHz oMG at first you really had me going with that biblical quote, I had already paused the video, to lay down a logically smack down. lol
I want to visit Titan.
@JesterAzazel Right! And then they get mad at us if we leave comments on their videos.
@Serge1965 The only way this metaphor applies even remotely is if someone duped my son into running into the street. Well if that's the case, then the other person needs to go rot behind bars for a while where he can't dupe anyone else's children into doing something dangerous. And if my son is so easily duped, I guess I need to supervise a little more carefully.
@TheBenEEeee It does seem incredibly naive at first glance, as I thought it was when I first heard the idea. I agree it will be read that way. I looked into it and realized that we do have alot of wiggle room in our budget to expand NASA alot. Glad you agree!
@FordPrefect23 That makes me worry about mankind, those in power would rather kill eachother than ensure our survival by going to other worlds.
@Serge1965
To a omniscient entity we would appear as robots because as you admit he already knows how everything ends.
To a omniscient entity testing would be pointless (unless for self-gratification) because it would already know the results.
@Serge1965 I can still remember when I was 5 years old, sneaking into the living room and seeing Santa on Christmas morning. My father never dressed as Santa and we weren't burglarized that morning. Was it a dream? Was it my imagination? Is it some type of false memory or self deception? Can you say that these rewards that you attribute to god would be impossible if you knew for a fact he didn't exist? It's for these reasons that personal experiences still fail to persuade me. Thanks though!
sugestin water on titan??
@Serge1965 So we fell because we disobeyed and we disobeyed because the snake misled us.
So basically, we fell because we were duped?
For some reason I crave coffee..
@Oddessuss that was a really good coffee ;)
El video es maravilloso, lo que no me explico es que tienen que ver los escritos biblicos, con los descubrimientos de los cientificos.
@n8style
Don't forget to mention Pasta's Wager..
If we're wrong, no big deal, but if we're right, eternal bliss and lasagna for all!
@Serge1965 OK. This belief serves you. I too, feel awe and great joy in these things. However, my belief is different. I respect yours.
@Serge1965 As an atheist, I can certainly vouch for theists who do take responsibility for themselves and do treat others with respect and kindness. When I was in the military, my dog tags said, no denomination. Racism and sexism was rampant, but religious views were at the bottom of the list. I think its because grenade practice isn't congruent with Jesus. Now, I am a professional stunt woman. Yes, I have lived a blessed life, but that's because of my determination despite the odds. Thanks.
@julsHz yup sounds about right
@Serge1965 Once again, you might want to try paying attention. My question just now wasn't about the reason man fell, but whether you have made up your mind about what that reason is. You have given me three different answers to this question. My question was, which is it? Which is it? Which of the reasons you have given me is correct? Can you answer this question or can you only pretend as if I am asking a different one?
@georgetcr Wish I could vote this up 10 times!
@AutodidacticPhd I want to know you, now.
@Serge1965 My prediction is backed up by extensive historical records and research from the fields of psychology, political science, economics and cultural & social anthropology. Do you notice a difference between my prediction and your prediction?
@Serge1965 "i am the One who still has my reason intact, THINK AGAIN!!!"
Saying it doesn't make it true, nor does padding it with lots of exclamation points.
@Serge1965 Who's suggesting anything about flying monkeys that evolved out of slime?
@LeMarquisDivin thanx
@julsHz Ah, ok, makes sense. Thanks.
@lazyperfectionist1 Easily. The brain can lie to itself about the actual content of its own senses... I think this says it all really.
"A kludge is a workaround, a quick-and-dirty solution, a clumsy or inelegant, yet effective, solution to a problem, typically using parts that are cobbled together. This term is diversely used in fields such as computer science, aerospace engineering, Internet slang, and evolutionary neuroscience." -wikipedia
@Serge1965 Of course, if he doesn't know how to identify "idiot snakes," I can't very well punish him for not knowing better. All I can do is supervise a little better while i try to explain that to him. But surely threatening is not the best way impart that understanding.
@julsHz 3,7-dihydro-1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione (commonly known as caffeine) is stimulating my central nervous system, heart rate, and respiration, has psychotropic (mood altering) properties, and acting as a mild diuretic as we speak ;)
Its blocking my adenosine receptors slowing cellular activity, making my nerve cells release adrenaline, causing my liver to release glucose and also changing my dopamine levels. This is biochemistry and its got nothing to do with this science video ;)
@Serge1965 So then you agree that it was wrong to try to punish him in such a fashion even if he was guilty?
@spartacandream There are just so many interweaving issues with funding for space explorations and defence to fit in within a youtube comment. If the objective is exploration/colonisation of Mars or Titan, I think humanity has to be organised differently before any work will begin.Currently, resource scarcity and global instability is enough to justify for a large military budget.Then infrastructure is needed for collaboration, fair distribution of rewards, etc. I can't see that in today's world
@Serge1965 But what kind of sacrifice is death if infinite, eternal happiness in paradise lies beyond?
@Serge1965
first premise: God made man
second premise: man was imperfect
conclusion: God made man imperfect.
@Serge1965 So man fell because he did not know how to say no to evil? I thought you said that man fell because he had free will.
If man fell because he did not know how to say no to evil but God knew this would happen before it happened, then why not give man, in advance, the knowledge of how to say no to evil, thereby preventing the fall?
@Serge1965 But one does not choose to be duped. According to your account, we are essentially being punished because the snake lied to us. We are being punished for his duplicity because God couldn't find any other way to forgive us for being lied to except to have us sacrifice Him to Himself.
@gtamadness How in the world did this comment of yours end up flagged as spam?
@Serge1965 So first you said that man fell because he had free will, then you said that he fell because he didn't know how to say no to evil, and now you say that man fell, not because he HAD free will, but because he USED it? Could you make up your mind?
"Man fell because he had free will."
Does God have free will?
"Man fell because He didn't know how to say no to evil."
Why couldn't God just give man this knowledge?
"Man fell because he used free will."
Does God use free will?
@julsHz Coffee making is very scientific ....
@Serge1965 Oh. So man was originally perfect but then he fell? So then perfection does not prevent one from falling?
Can God fall?
@Serge1965 No response to my arguments, huh?
@TheBenEEeee
All hail Azathoth!
@AutodidacticPhd Can the brain lie to itself about an argument it is being presented with?
@Serge1965 "...since I don't believe in the religions invented by man?"
So you're saying that you hold no religious beliefs?
@georgetcr Perhaps you should take a second look at my argument and try saying something relevant to it.
@pigeonster Would there be evidence of that on the moon, with it's lower gravity?
@Serge1965 "I don't think i see any need for me to answer anymore of your questions..."
What questions of mine have you answered? You said that man fell because he had free will and that God has free will and I asked if God could fall. No answer. You said that man fell because he USED his free will and that God uses free will and I asked if that meant that God could fall. Again, no answer.
@AutodidacticPhd "Why, because I study the brain, and know just how easily it misfires."
Really? Then I wonder what you would make of my conversation with this knuckle-head and the twists and turns it has taken.
@georgetcr
first premise: You can only reason with someone who knows how to reason.
second premise: No one is born knowing how to reason.
conclusion: You can only reason with people after their reasoning skills have begun to develop.
@Serge1965 And back to my question. Can God fall?
@Serge1965 I don't really have faith in the persistence of those things; just a prediction of their persistence based on the available evidence, and my statement had some relevance to the topic at hand. In what way is Jesus relevant to space exploration?
@Serge1965 Do these ways authenticate that God created the animals before man as it states in Genesis 1, or that God created man before the animals as it states in Genesis 2? Do they authenticate that man fell because he HAD free will, because he dared to USE it, or because he didn't know how to say no to evil?
@Serge1965 All this relies on the assumption that the Bible is true and that other religious texts aren't. But of course it isn't, as I have shown.
Once again, you give me a reading assignment instead of addressing my point. So do I get to give you a reading assignment as well?
@Serge1965 Geology is not telling you to give up your religion in exchange for appreciating new discoveries. You don't know the narrator, he may be religious and his profession is geological cosmogony. So, please take a breath and stop feeling threatened when discoveries are merely to enhance technology to help future generations.
You can speak ill of him. Can you point to any logical or factual errors he committed?
@Serge1965 I'll have to disagree with you on several points and urge you to do more research. Other mythological figures, not as many as some claim, but more than a few were also born of virgins long before christ was imagined. Neither archeology or historical documents overwhelmingly confirm him. Those that do confirm him have been held by the church for centuries and have been proven to have been modified, influenced and outright forged in some instances.
You said that man fell because he didn't know how to say no to evil and I asked why God didn't just grant us the knowledge of how to say no to evil. Yet again, no answer.
Once in a while, you have told me that I just need to read the Bible, but that's an instruction, not an answer. So what questions of mine have you answered?
@Serge1965 So God came out of communion with Himself and humbled Himself before Himself to the point of a mere human being and to the point of tasting death (for just a few days) as part of a sacrifice to Himself in order to appease Himself enough to persuade Himself to forgive us for having free will (like He does) and using it (like He does) and for not knowing something He had never bothered to teach us because the only way our debt could be paid was by God to Himself?
@Serge1965 You could also investigate the claims of the 114 suras of the Quran. That's an alternative as well. And don't forget about the Upanishads, the Urantia book, and all the Native American tales of creation while you're at it. To whatever extent any of these count as alternatives, they all do.
@lazyperfectionist1 "Then I wonder what you would make of my conversation with..."
Simple. Our brains are made up of several layers of conflict resolution machines, some of which are in direct conflict with eachother. Any time a person develops a strong emotional attachment or fear with respect to a stimulus (either internal or external) the brain will go to extraordinary lengths to maintain that established order... even (or perhaps I should say, especially) lie to itself.
Anyhow, explain me the "existence" of multiple Gods in the modern world. Can't.
@Serge1965 So then you are suggesting that they fell because they had free will?
Does God have free will?
@Serge1965 "...that role belongs to God."
Then that role belongs to no one, since He doesn't exist.
Either that, or I could borrow a page from God's book and lock him in the basement to be tortured unless he accepts my sacrifice of me to myself on his behalf.
@Serge1965 Oh, I see. You aren't relying on an assumption that the Bible is true, but an assumption that it is ABSOLUTELY true. I stand corrected.
Oh, not an assignment, but an encouragement to read. Alright then. Do I get to give you an encouragement to read as well?
@julsHz If you're going to peddle your imaginary friend please do so.But, use religious plateforms eg. a pupit. Gazing life through a religious prism -vividly exposes the limitations of one's understanding.
"...if we're gonna find life somewhere else in the Universe, it has to have something in common with the one place we know has life and that's here..."
Talk about carbon chauvinism -- this guy takes it to the next level and posits that all life must be quasi-Earthlike or at least dwell in a quasi-Earthlike habitat - Terra/Gaia/Gaea-centrism if you will. Wasn't it quite recent ( before 1995 ) that many thought our solar system may be the only place to harbor *planets* not to mention life? Geez
@Serge1965 I guess it's too much work to type out "la barre."
So you're saying that Chevalier deserved to have his tongue torn out and to be burned alive at the stake just because he marred a crucifix, sang irreverent songs and failed to remove his had for a Catholic procession?
Agnosticism. I have made no claims about it being "accurate" and "correct," but given the fact that no one really knows if any gods exist, everyone's an agnostic and this state is unavoidable.
@Serge1965 I appreciate your sentiment. This is one of the things I do like about religion, is that you say God bless you and hoping for abundance in one's life. I know the intention is good and that its the intention that creates what you receive. By the way, I am female, but thanks Serge.
@spartacandream I agree fully with your, but so cynical is the world that your statements will be read as incredibly naive.
@brennanww I have faith in the persistence of political and bureaucratic meddling and it's ability to keep space exploration grinding along at an excruciating glacial pace for at least the next several decades by mandating spending on white elephants while squeezing budgets and forcing the cancellation of genuinely valuable and ground-breaking projects.
@lazyperfectionist1 MMMM, quite.
@Serge1965 I can understand and respect a personal experience but would you put the same faith in someone who said they trusted in Zeus and he manifested and influenced their life? Everyday people have these close personal experiences with what they perceive to be beings other than just the Christian god. Is this proof that these beings exist or that the brain is capable of powerful subjective experiences? Either way, these personal experiences still fail to convince me.
@Serge1965 So then man fell because he had free will and God has free will. Then God is going to fall.
@Serge1965 I see. So then the only way to really understand the Bible is to read it with an infallible mind?
But all human belings have fallible minds. This would mean that none of us can really understand it.
@Serge1965 Chevalier de la Barre was a French youth with the sheer, galling audacity to sing irreverent songs, mar a crucifix, and fail to remove his hat for a Catholic procession. That "idiot" Voltaire was all that stood between him and having his tongue torn out and being burned alive for these "heinous" crimes in a world dominated by a system of belief so steeped in God's love that it had no respect for Freedom of Expression.
@Serge1965 We have no original writings by any of the disciples. There are a few books/letters/gospels that we have no idea who the original author was, Matthew for instance. It's entirely possible that Jesus was a real man, but son of god, I highly doubt.
@panzuman I have faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but you are going to Pasta Hell if you do not believe, be scared, it's where the Meatballs of fury poke you with pasta twists every day for all eternity! All you need to do to be saved is believe in the FSM and you'll be rewarded with Pasta Heaven, all hail his Tomatoness. RAmen
@Serge1965 Tough? Perhaps, but not due to anything mentioned here. Anyway, I rather enjoy my life... and, I might add, without having to rely on self deception, or the need to troll youtube videos.
@Serge1965 More avoiding questions I see. First of all, I can't ask Him for anything, since He doesn't exist. Second of all, when you make the insistence that it was passed down to these 40 men, how do you know? How do you know they didn't just make it up? After all, people make up stories all the time.
If the carnal mind is not sufficient, why were their carnal minds sufficient? Why is yours sufficient?
Shall I also pray to Wakan Tanka before reading about Him?
"Since we're probably never gonna to get to the surface of Titan and be able to pick up the rocks and take samples of the liquid...."
Talk about arrogant pessimism and having an egotistic contempt for the resiliency, ingenuity and determination of Humankind. Didn't we go to the moon 41 years ago?
@Serge1965 My main point behind all of this is why would a perfect god allow such confusion over his word? Why haven't we heard anything further from god? Why is god playing peek-a-boo with man? The answer is simple. God was created by man as a way to explain what he didn't understand. Is it coincidence that this religion sprung from the same area and time as thousands of other religions? I don't think so. Believing Christianity requires a huge leap of blind faith that I'm not willing to make.
@Serge1965 Let's have a little lesson in etymology.
a: absense
theism: god belief
atheism: absense of god belief
This is not a system any more than absense of leprechaun belief is a system. Can you show me evidence that lack of leprechaun belief is accurate and correct?
Well, no you don't know that Jesus Christ is alive, because the defining difference between knowledge and belief is demonstrability. "I know it" means "I can show it. I can demonstrate it."
@Serge1965 I have faith in Saint Nicholas the Santa Claus who will deliver us presents and candy canes.
@Serge1965 What in the world does the intelligence level and IQ of an education system have to do with what you would do as an unbeliever?
WillingFUL unbelief? Is that different from willing unbelief?
Have you made up your mind about why man fell yet?