Two comments. One, as a 57 year old who cycles, I appreciate the longer warm up. I have been using Wahoo training plans on their app for a while and often find I am insufficiently warmed up. Two, in my reading of the description of of the first workout, it seems to say it is more or less an opener, as you described it. And three, a bonus. I like how you linked the workouts to the type of competition that somebody may be preparing themselves for. Doing a longish zone 2 effort before the more intense workout makes good sense.
I often think Zwift is making workouts that look good for marketing purposes. Getting the most possible people doing them instead of thinking what will actually make you better. Almost all of zwift's workouts are relatively short so it doesn't scare people off. I often create my own custom workouts with the same idea in mind because of that.
Took your advice on Hairpin Wizard: Made a workout with 1.5hrs z2, then added Hairpin Wizard (minus warmup block). First time around it felt too easy, so I added a third block of the intervals. Will probably add a 4th and/or an extra 30mins z2 for next week.
Jesse, you’ve got way more experience than me but I was pleased to see I was coming up with very similar assessments of these to you. Two extra comments. As an older rider I feel I need a bit more warm up than younger riders, so I’d let that go. But I’d add a ramp of 2 mins up to 90% threshold to help me do that. Second, I agree that those with greater aerobic capacity and resilience could and should do more repeats. A minimum of 3 for me, usually 4 and rarely 5 (except for short VO2 max where I’d do 6-8 x 2-3 mins). I’d be careful about doing too many blocks (eg 5x10 at or near threshold) as I think the cumulative stress for the rides later in the week could outweigh the adaptive signal benefit. It’s a judgement though and of course depends on your event if you are close to it and it’s specific and you’re planning fewer rides.
Good series, keep doing this type of commentary with suggested improvements for Zwift's easily accessible workouts. I've no issues with the length of warm up, Masters + riders coming in from a long work day sometimes need the warm up...
I did the VO2max Blast this afternoon because it was too cold to ride outside. You are right it wasn't hard enough. I think it lets you adjust the FTP value. So I could increase it next time but I think I'll try the "Final Send" first.
I did these last week, to ease my way back into riding after a short period with a cold and chesty cough. I concur with pretty much all of your comments - it was perfect for me in my situation, but, had I been in good condition, I'd have been wanting to extend all the workouts with a few more blocks. I found Hairpin Wizard and Final Send really easy, the way they are set up.
For such short workouts they were useful to string them together or keep riding after with the same format to extend. I combined aerobic rev up and hairpin wizard to make a 90 min tempo
Great video. Clearly Zwift want these to be attractive to people with only short windows for a workout but as you say, the w/ups are generally too long. Even the last session, what do you think is the purpose of the over/unders and marginally over ftp short set? I'd take that out completely! So often Zwift sessions try to do too much in one session, frequently touching into all kinds of zones across the sets. They almost always lack a clear purpose that is executed. Really like this style of content as it really helps me design my own plans.
Great information and analysis!! I’ll save these and use your recommendations to build a new program to try out once I complete Zwift’s Spring Training program this week.
Very interesting take. I use Zwift intervals as a non competitive rider. I have no experience with the logic behind the style of intervals. This helps me thinking about combining a zone 2 shorter hour or two out door, then get back and get into one of these session.
Then your golden if the workouts for you are more about staying consistent with riding, burning calories, having fun. No need to get any more specific!
Cheers Jesse. Based on your suggestions, gave over and under a go. Pretty good and agree it could be a little longer. Keep doing these.... NW America still very damp and cold. No sign of spring yet.
Hi Jesse, a tip for you channel. Do more zwift workout reviews! You'll have plenty of material to cover for content, and we'll get super useful insights to base our training off of.
Thanks. But I don't like to these too often, they are fun and can learn a thing or two, but are more "edu-tainment". There are many more important things to focus on with training and I don't want people to think the relatively minor details of the Zwift Workouts are make or break to a training plan. They make a difference, but probably not enough to do a video on it every week!
You should react to/rate a plan from 80/20 Endurance. I follow their triathlon plans, and the cycling workouts don't spend much time at all above Z2. Common workouts include: 4x6min Z3 (91-100% FTP), 1x15min Z3, 8x1min Z4, 4x2.5min Z4, 8x1min Z5. Curious how I could utilize my 1-1.5 hour time slots for better results.
Like the analysis JC. It helps me analyse my own training. From a running and football background taking into track cycling, I can relate to your comments. I agree with hard early in set, but most times 2nd, 3rd or 4th is better quality - and I prefer sets of 5+. 1st is rarely hardest unless you're a pure sprinter. Nb I don't do any of the virtual pgms.
Nice video. I was wondering if you tried personally a 2 man TT 30-60min effort on a course outside. I guess you could say of course in a race but what about in training? I use to do these with my coach back in 2015-2916 to replace a boring workout, weekly night race, or weekend hard ride. The route generally was 20 miles of rolly terrain. To keep it simple our goal was ussually to PR or get close to the best time. Most of training stimulus was Z1-Z3 behind wheel and z4-z6 in front. I found like me and many others it’s easier to push harder along other people and more often we surprise ourselfs in these TT efforts. I guess you could say the same for zwift. Ugh still feels kinda dull inside though. I’ve done this with 4 people, but ussually it turned into shorter pulls at z5-z6 basically vo2. And than rotate and recover. Feel a bit snappy after those. I preferred the 2 man efforts personally tho.
You just need z4 intervals with z1 in-between, some over-unders (z4-z5) and sprint efforts with lots of base riding, that's it. Zwift workouts are for the most part ridicilous, their best one is just 2x20min at FTP imo. And they are often too short.
Question - understand if things got too saturated for an answer 🙂 I race about once every week with a couple 2 week racing breaks May - September... generally local 1hr-2hr XC with a couple 2-4hr XC marathon. QUESTION: If you had to be limited to 3 zwift workouts that you complete and feel strong finishing... say anywhere from 1-3 weeks prior to that type of effort... what would they be? I'm a fan of upping the SST to above FTP for a good body drain and confidence booster but miss out on the hard efforts. For those hard efforts, I generally zwift race where there are anywhere from 5-10 30s-1mn max efforts to stay with the lead group, I always get dropped hard at the finish sprint. FTP is generally 4.0-4.3 w/kg depending on the day. I know there are many variables and further questions you would need.. but can you attempt to answer the question? ;-)
I don't know that many Zwift workouts off the top of my head. Personally I'd do 1x long hard sustained SST effort, 1x sprint interval training workout (max 30s efforts), 1x intermittent VO2max workouts like 3x8x40/20's. Plus endurance. That covers most bases
Hey Jesse, been doing research on the hypoxic nature of heat acclimatisation training (I.e zwifting without a fan). Seems like a topic rarely discussed for increasing blood plasma or adding into a training plan. Huge stimulus apparently. Would you speak to this?
Last one, would you usually prescribe more reps per set (road/crit racer)? I do 30 on / 30 off, aim for 10 reps per set (FTP around 350 and I aim for and get pretty close to 600w per rep). Usually feel very, very close to throwing up by number 10.
I mostly dont do zwift workout but when I do I simply boost my ftp high enough for the workout to properly hurt. Doing it multiple times can be smart but is not very convenient.
I think Jesse is to inside Baseball on this one. The majority of people who pick workouts from Zwift portfolio are time pinched and not elite athletes or racing and these are perfect for them . I'm pretty sure rider's who race or have a high level of fitness train several hours a week are uploading their own stuff or selecting longer higher TSS workouts
True. I'm predicting a lot of people are watching this video for discussion on training principles and not because they want to pick the best workout. These Zwift workouts are useful for analysis because they have a clear aim and we can then dig into the session to see if it hits the mark.
I love erg mode. I see a lot of people complain, but its super useful if you just wanna get some work in without having to think too much about the road or your gears. if you stop pedaling, your screwed, and you can get stuck in spiral of death, but otherwise I find it amazingly useful
They really should scale the difficulty with FTP. Especially with a lot of your comments being basically that thethe workout would be good with more sets. Maybe
My only thought on the purpose of the first one would be for people coming straight off the couch. Just to remind the legs what cycling is without causing any DOMs type reaction that will send them back to the couch. Definitely looks useless if you have any miles in the legs though
I read that as getting you ready for workouts in future weeks, not getting you ready for a workout tomorrow. There's not much aerobic conditioning coming from that session for the vast majority of riders unfortunately
@@nerocoaching I agree that it is not a workout per se. I would sometimes do that kind of ride before a V02 session that I really want to perform at. Basically an opener for a key-session.
These workouts don't see hard enough, just like you said. I have a question and I hope to get your answer, Jesse. I ride road & mtb for 1-2 years now, and i did structured training for the last +- 16 weeks now, 3-4 hours a week. My ftp is already 335, I'm 75 kg. As a cycling coach, do you think that is exceptional, great, good, average or below when it comes to training response and fitness increase? I started it 270w before the structured training. Thanks a lot.
Nearly 4.5w/kg seems pretty exceptional to me. What age are you?! I'm a reasonably competitive triathlete and get to about 3.3w/kg (80-85kg) but i'm over 40...
On paper that's an exceptional level of fitness for 3-4 hours of riding per week, to the point where I find it hard to believe. Well done. But I would honestly have to question- is your power source accurate and can you actually do 335w average for an hour
@@nerocoaching i use trainerroad; famous for quick gains but you need to watch out for overtraining.(but you should do that with every app or coach). I don't think I can ride 335 for one hour though. Haven't tried it yet, maybe on a good day. I did a 20 minute test and i managed to score 335 with the trainerroad protocol (includes some warmups.) I use a Zwift Hub, i calibrate every time. I also have a 4iiii 105 crank power meter. Both readings give me similar reading i think. To the other guy: I'm 27 years old. Thank you for answering, Jesse. I will try a 1 hour test sometime.
@@jimjamthebananaman1 i did 340+ watts, with the proper warmups before. Trainerroad 20 min test is calculated slightly differently because they make you do anaerobic efforts before the 20 minutes.
Im allergic to zwift workouts. Write my own for Polar Zone 3 stuff. Funny seeing a 6x2 vo2 on here. In fact i did 1 i wrote yesterday (2sets at 115% 2min off). Think it is good for a 1st workout at new threshold test number. That or 30/30s. 470-490??? Thats gettin to 133%!?!? Anaerobic by then?? -U10
Depends on individual physiology, but 2m efforts with 3m recovery at 115% will not be intense enough for most people, as a workout to build VO2max. With a 2m effort, for most people it will need to be high zone 5 possibly into zone 6. Most riders doing sustained efforts at 115% FTP are holding it for 3-4 minutes to get close to VO2max.
6 min warm up, come on. Ill often jump on a pace partner for 10 minutes before a workout. You would give the first workout to someone before a ftp test, that’s pretty much what the description says! I did the first 2 workouts back to back which made the first one better. I do agree efforts should start with harder and get easier.
Just ride 2-3 Zwift races per week and do big long rides on the weekend. To my experience these micro workouts have no benefit at all if you want to perform in 5-7hour long races.
yooo0000 Jesse! . 5 to 8 years ago. No such workouts existed. The only one that was working out this way was me. That's why my title is the God of speed. My knowledge for cycling training was light years ahead of the professionals. I was arguing for 20 years on the internet trying to make people understand that I had all the training tools . When I got into cycling I saw that there was no training for it. That's when I applied what I knew from my prior experiences in sports. I am the first person to ever use structured training in cycling and was made fun of for many years. People would ask me where are your base miles? My strava is only filled with intervals as far back as you go. People couldn't understand why I was so fast with such little training. I tried to explain to them but they all thought I was on steroids. Now everyone has forgotten my advice and are arguments and make believe I do not exist like 95% of the RUclipsrs that I argued with have blocked me. 😆 Imagine waiting for these bozos to point the finger at me and say this man was right all along. That never happened. That's why I have a chip on my shoulder. It's huge!
The last workout you were talking about I have been doing since before you started riding. Proof is on my Strava. As far back as you go, the only thing you'll see is workouts like that. I am the inventor of all these workouts. The cycling industry took my workouts. This is a fact. GCN in every major cycling platform had me arguing in their comment section telling them that my workouts are going to be the future. Is a fact I don't lie and my strava is the proof.
Hey Jesse, this is kind of worthless commentary as you are only theorizing, no practical application or testing of your critique - you don't use Zwift, so unless you''re prepared to road test the programs, can't see the point of this. a bit like talking about bikes without riding them.
I've spent nearly every day of the past 10 years looking at, analysing and learning the principles behind an endless number of workouts. I can confidently say I don't need to ride one of the workouts to know, for example, that 2m repeats at 115% of FTP isn't a VO2max stimulus or that descending the interval intensity through a session will result in a bigger aerobic stress. If you don't like these types of videos, just don't watch, I think I remember you commenting on some of my other vids which you enjoy. I spent time making this video because someone specifically asked for it and wanted my opinion on them. Unfortunately for me I read most of the comments, this one has particularly annoyed me
@@nerocoaching fair enough ... a bit like the video criticism you did from trainerroad article where there was no referencing for the assumptions being made about nutrition etc.. you had a standard you expected from the article. cheap shots at zwift are easy to make, and I know you don't have any experience on Zwift and indoors, so it devalues your commentary. its just an opinion piece, I get that, but for the Zwift target audience the workouts are pretty good, I'm sure we could find holes in your workouts as well. 'Bike Racing without Mercy' is a pretty good testament to zwift workouts and he demonstrates it as well.So inevitably take a zwift plan, chuck Chris Miller on an 8 week ftp build for example and I bet he gets faster. then we have grounds for discussion, its called empirical evidence. sorry to sound intelligent I know its yt but had to call it out as someone who has used the plans and got to 4 watts per kg ftp using them. don't take things too personal on here, its just an opinion and we need to distance ourselves from the personal, once the video is made, it has its own life good or bad.
Just unsubscribe, honestly. You don’t seem to understand this channel. If you disagree with me on a point is this video, let me know what on specifically, as other commenters have, which is fair. I’m not against discussion or disagreement if you think I said something wrong. Analysing Zwift workouts and giving them ratings good and bad isn’t “cheap shots”. I’m actually surprised you watch any of my other videos. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
@@marcus_velo_9970 bit rich of you to go into a personal attack on a person and then say don't take it personally. As to your experiential comments, well yeah riding your bike more gets you fitter to an extent. But Chris's FTP would drop if he simply did these workouts. These workouts are generic for a generic mkt. JC is giving context of what the sessions can achieve. But you'd already know that...
I used Zwift training plans a few years back and actually felt I lost fitness as they seemed to be all over the place and didn’t seem to have a real goal to them. I’m not sure who plans the workouts. I then went to TrainerRoad but changed to wahooX and have made massive improvements.
Two comments. One, as a 57 year old who cycles, I appreciate the longer warm up. I have been using Wahoo training plans on their app for a while and often find I am insufficiently warmed up. Two, in my reading of the description of of the first workout, it seems to say it is more or less an opener, as you described it. And three, a bonus. I like how you linked the workouts to the type of competition that somebody may be preparing themselves for. Doing a longish zone 2 effort before the more intense workout makes good sense.
Totally agree. I don't settle in until 10 miles or 30 mins easy spin.
But you always can have as long warm up as you want before
I often think Zwift is making workouts that look good for marketing purposes. Getting the most possible people doing them instead of thinking what will actually make you better. Almost all of zwift's workouts are relatively short so it doesn't scare people off. I often create my own custom workouts with the same idea in mind because of that.
And their workouts don’t suit everyone
yeah it's a shame zwift are still doing this.. the potential for it to be a great training platform and smash trainerroad etc is big.
Took your advice on Hairpin Wizard: Made a workout with 1.5hrs z2, then added Hairpin Wizard (minus warmup block). First time around it felt too easy, so I added a third block of the intervals. Will probably add a 4th and/or an extra 30mins z2 for next week.
Would love to see you assess some Xert workouts.
Xert for the win!!!!🎉
Exactly what people like me who zwift a few hours a week need. Would love more info on what zwift workouts to include in a weekly routine
Jesse, you’ve got way more experience than me but I was pleased to see I was coming up with very similar assessments of these to you. Two extra comments. As an older rider I feel I need a bit more warm up than younger riders, so I’d let that go. But I’d add a ramp of 2 mins up to 90% threshold to help me do that. Second, I agree that those with greater aerobic capacity and resilience could and should do more repeats. A minimum of 3 for me, usually 4 and rarely 5 (except for short VO2 max where I’d do 6-8 x 2-3 mins). I’d be careful about doing too many blocks (eg 5x10 at or near threshold) as I think the cumulative stress for the rides later in the week could outweigh the adaptive signal benefit. It’s a judgement though and of course depends on your event if you are close to it and it’s specific and you’re planning fewer rides.
Good series, keep doing this type of commentary with suggested improvements for Zwift's easily accessible workouts.
I've no issues with the length of warm up, Masters + riders coming in from a long work day sometimes need the warm up...
I did the VO2max Blast this afternoon because it was too cold to ride outside. You are right it wasn't hard enough. I think it lets you adjust the FTP value. So I could increase it next time but I think I'll try the "Final Send" first.
I did these last week, to ease my way back into riding after a short period with a cold and chesty cough. I concur with pretty much all of your comments - it was perfect for me in my situation, but, had I been in good condition, I'd have been wanting to extend all the workouts with a few more blocks. I found Hairpin Wizard and Final Send really easy, the way they are set up.
For such short workouts they were useful to string them together or keep riding after with the same format to extend. I combined aerobic rev up and hairpin wizard to make a 90 min tempo
Thanks for this video, man. I'm definitely adding your prescription to my weekly training -- 2hr zone 2 w/ 3x final send workout
Can you please do some more nutrition related videos, do’s and donts when riding please
I did that final send workout. It was tough. I'm not sure I could have done a third set 🤮
Great video. Clearly Zwift want these to be attractive to people with only short windows for a workout but as you say, the w/ups are generally too long. Even the last session, what do you think is the purpose of the over/unders and marginally over ftp short set? I'd take that out completely! So often Zwift sessions try to do too much in one session, frequently touching into all kinds of zones across the sets. They almost always lack a clear purpose that is executed. Really like this style of content as it really helps me design my own plans.
Great information and analysis!! I’ll save these and use your recommendations to build a new program to try out once I complete Zwift’s Spring Training program this week.
Love your use of the zwift loading screen music 😂
Very interesting take. I use Zwift intervals as a non competitive rider. I have no experience with the logic behind the style of intervals. This helps me thinking about combining a zone 2 shorter hour or two out door, then get back and get into one of these session.
Then your golden if the workouts for you are more about staying consistent with riding, burning calories, having fun. No need to get any more specific!
Cheers Jesse. Based on your suggestions, gave over and under a go. Pretty good and agree it could be a little longer. Keep doing these.... NW America still very damp and cold. No sign of spring yet.
Hi Jesse, a tip for you channel. Do more zwift workout reviews! You'll have plenty of material to cover for content, and we'll get super useful insights to base our training off of.
Thanks. But I don't like to these too often, they are fun and can learn a thing or two, but are more "edu-tainment". There are many more important things to focus on with training and I don't want people to think the relatively minor details of the Zwift Workouts are make or break to a training plan. They make a difference, but probably not enough to do a video on it every week!
@@nerocoaching see your point. Thanks anyway I’ll try to think more like that.
"Hairpin wizard" - Maybe Im just getting old or have lived in Switzerland too long, but I actually recover on the hairpins, not surge.
You should react to/rate a plan from 80/20 Endurance. I follow their triathlon plans, and the cycling workouts don't spend much time at all above Z2. Common workouts include: 4x6min Z3 (91-100% FTP), 1x15min Z3, 8x1min Z4, 4x2.5min Z4, 8x1min Z5. Curious how I could utilize my 1-1.5 hour time slots for better results.
Like the analysis JC. It helps me analyse my own training. From a running and football background taking into track cycling, I can relate to your comments. I agree with hard early in set, but most times 2nd, 3rd or 4th is better quality - and I prefer sets of 5+. 1st is rarely hardest unless you're a pure sprinter. Nb I don't do any of the virtual pgms.
Thanks 😊
Nice video. I was wondering if you tried personally a 2 man TT 30-60min effort on a course outside. I guess you could say of course in a race but what about in training? I use to do these with my coach back in 2015-2916 to replace a boring workout, weekly night race, or weekend hard ride. The route generally was 20 miles of rolly terrain. To keep it simple our goal was ussually to PR or get close to the best time. Most of training stimulus was Z1-Z3 behind wheel and z4-z6 in front. I found like me and many others it’s easier to push harder along other people and more often we surprise ourselfs in these TT efforts. I guess you could say the same for zwift. Ugh still feels kinda dull inside though. I’ve done this with 4 people, but ussually it turned into shorter pulls at z5-z6 basically vo2. And than rotate and recover. Feel a bit snappy after those. I preferred the 2 man efforts personally tho.
Just what I'm looking for. Someone who deciphers the workouts. Learned more about structure here the videos which are said to explain
You just need z4 intervals with z1 in-between, some over-unders (z4-z5) and sprint efforts with lots of base riding, that's it. Zwift workouts are for the most part ridicilous, their best one is just 2x20min at FTP imo. And they are often too short.
Active off-season tp needs an in depth review imo it's the best one on zwift, feels like it flies under the radar.
Question - understand if things got too saturated for an answer 🙂
I race about once every week with a couple 2 week racing breaks May - September... generally local 1hr-2hr XC with a couple 2-4hr XC marathon. QUESTION: If you had to be limited to 3 zwift workouts that you complete and feel strong finishing... say anywhere from 1-3 weeks prior to that type of effort... what would they be?
I'm a fan of upping the SST to above FTP for a good body drain and confidence booster but miss out on the hard efforts. For those hard efforts, I generally zwift race where there are anywhere from 5-10 30s-1mn max efforts to stay with the lead group, I always get dropped hard at the finish sprint. FTP is generally 4.0-4.3 w/kg depending on the day. I know there are many variables and further questions you would need.. but can you attempt to answer the question? ;-)
I don't know that many Zwift workouts off the top of my head. Personally I'd do 1x long hard sustained SST effort, 1x sprint interval training workout (max 30s efforts), 1x intermittent VO2max workouts like 3x8x40/20's. Plus endurance. That covers most bases
"Too long a warm".
*laughs in over 50yrs old*.
Can you do some of this rating of workouts from TrainerRoad please
It would be great if you could review some workouts and training plans from other platforms too! Wahoo SYSTM and Trainerroad come to mind.
This is why I build my own workouts in zwift
Hey Jesse, been doing research on the hypoxic nature of heat acclimatisation training (I.e zwifting without a fan). Seems like a topic rarely discussed for increasing blood plasma or adding into a training plan. Huge stimulus apparently. Would you speak to this?
Let’s be honest you need about 5 workouts in total, just vary the length or the blocks and you’re golden.
Can you review Xert workouts? Please lol
Last one, would you usually prescribe more reps per set (road/crit racer)? I do 30 on / 30 off, aim for 10 reps per set (FTP around 350 and I aim for and get pretty close to 600w per rep). Usually feel very, very close to throwing up by number 10.
I mostly dont do zwift workout but when I do I simply boost my ftp high enough for the workout to properly hurt. Doing it multiple times can be smart but is not very convenient.
I think Jesse is to inside Baseball on this one. The majority of people who pick workouts from Zwift portfolio are time pinched and not elite athletes or racing and these are perfect for them . I'm pretty sure rider's who race or have a high level of fitness train several hours a week are uploading their own stuff or selecting longer higher TSS workouts
True. I'm predicting a lot of people are watching this video for discussion on training principles and not because they want to pick the best workout. These Zwift workouts are useful for analysis because they have a clear aim and we can then dig into the session to see if it hits the mark.
So would you say TrainerRoad for specific training plans and use Zwift for longer zone 2, more enjoyable rides?
40 minute workout? yesh thats what it takes to get me warmed up
Hey cyle, did u check out Rouvy? Has pretty cool routes in real life. Please make a video of it!
Great vid !
great video!
What is the best for Olympic Triathlon?
What are your thoughts about ERG-mode? I feel like it forces me down to 80rpm. And if i dip below, spiral of death
I love erg mode. I see a lot of people complain, but its super useful if you just wanna get some work in without having to think too much about the road or your gears. if you stop pedaling, your screwed, and you can get stuck in spiral of death, but otherwise I find it amazingly useful
I don't use erg mode. If you want to train on your cadence, turn it off.
Yeah, zone 2 and sweetspot,maybe threshold on a good day is doable. But vo2. No way
They really should scale the difficulty with FTP. Especially with a lot of your comments being basically that thethe workout would be good with more sets.
Maybe
thanks for the video jesse
What powermeter do you use? And is it dual-sided or single-side?
Hairpin wizzard only has 2x12min of work, not 2x16min
"I wouldn't consider this a work out"...brutal but true
My only thought on the purpose of the first one would be for people coming straight off the couch. Just to remind the legs what cycling is without causing any DOMs type reaction that will send them back to the couch. Definitely looks useless if you have any miles in the legs though
i did it after being sick for a few days - it felt useful for me as a little maintenance and getting back into it (before full recovery).
2:09 but thats kinda what is says in the description isnt it?
I read that as getting you ready for workouts in future weeks, not getting you ready for a workout tomorrow. There's not much aerobic conditioning coming from that session for the vast majority of riders unfortunately
@@nerocoaching I agree that it is not a workout per se.
I would sometimes do that kind of ride before a V02 session that I really want to perform at. Basically an opener for a key-session.
an 8 min zone 1 warm up is ridiculous
Are zwift races good for increasing fitness? I get bored doing the workouts and would rather race.
Nice comments mate
These workouts don't see hard enough, just like you said.
I have a question and I hope to get your answer, Jesse. I ride road & mtb for 1-2 years now, and i did structured training for the last +- 16 weeks now, 3-4 hours a week. My ftp is already 335, I'm 75 kg. As a cycling coach, do you think that is exceptional, great, good, average or below when it comes to training response and fitness increase? I started it 270w before the structured training.
Thanks a lot.
Nearly 4.5w/kg seems pretty exceptional to me. What age are you?! I'm a reasonably competitive triathlete and get to about 3.3w/kg (80-85kg) but i'm over 40...
On paper that's an exceptional level of fitness for 3-4 hours of riding per week, to the point where I find it hard to believe. Well done.
But I would honestly have to question- is your power source accurate and can you actually do 335w average for an hour
@@nerocoaching i use trainerroad; famous for quick gains but you need to watch out for overtraining.(but you should do that with every app or coach).
I don't think I can ride 335 for one hour though. Haven't tried it yet, maybe on a good day. I did a 20 minute test and i managed to score 335 with the trainerroad protocol (includes some warmups.)
I use a Zwift Hub, i calibrate every time. I also have a 4iiii 105 crank power meter. Both readings give me similar reading i think.
To the other guy: I'm 27 years old.
Thank you for answering, Jesse. I will try a 1 hour test sometime.
@@roebbiej 20 mins 335 watts would give you roughly 320 watts
@@jimjamthebananaman1 i did 340+ watts, with the proper warmups before. Trainerroad 20 min test is calculated slightly differently because they make you do anaerobic efforts before the 20 minutes.
Im allergic to zwift workouts. Write my own for Polar Zone 3 stuff. Funny seeing a 6x2 vo2 on here. In fact i did 1 i wrote yesterday (2sets at 115% 2min off). Think it is good for a 1st workout at new threshold test number. That or 30/30s. 470-490??? Thats gettin to 133%!?!? Anaerobic by then?? -U10
Depends on individual physiology, but 2m efforts with 3m recovery at 115% will not be intense enough for most people, as a workout to build VO2max. With a 2m effort, for most people it will need to be high zone 5 possibly into zone 6. Most riders doing sustained efforts at 115% FTP are holding it for 3-4 minutes to get close to VO2max.
6 min warm up, come on. Ill often jump on a pace partner for 10 minutes before a workout.
You would give the first workout to someone before a ftp test, that’s pretty much what the description says! I did the first 2 workouts back to back which made the first one better.
I do agree efforts should start with harder and get easier.
Just ride 2-3 Zwift races per week and do big long rides on the weekend. To my experience these micro workouts have no benefit at all if you want to perform in 5-7hour long races.
The first workout describes itself as an opener…
yooo0000 Jesse! .
5 to 8 years ago. No such workouts existed. The only one that was working out this way was me. That's why my title is the God of speed.
My knowledge for cycling training was light years ahead of the professionals.
I was arguing for 20 years on the internet trying to make people understand that I had all the training tools .
When I got into cycling I saw that there was no training for it. That's when I applied what I knew from my prior experiences in sports.
I am the first person to ever use structured training in cycling and was made fun of for many years.
People would ask me where are your base miles?
My strava is only filled with intervals as far back as you go.
People couldn't understand why I was so fast with such little training. I tried to explain to them but they all thought I was on steroids.
Now everyone has forgotten my advice and are arguments and make believe I do not exist like 95% of the RUclipsrs that I argued with have blocked me.
😆 Imagine waiting for these bozos to point the finger at me and say this man was right all along. That never happened. That's why I have a chip on my shoulder. It's huge!
I agree with you on the VO2 blast.
The last workout you were talking about I have been doing since before you started riding. Proof is on my Strava. As far back as you go, the only thing you'll see is workouts like that. I am the inventor of all these workouts.
The cycling industry took my workouts. This is a fact.
GCN in every major cycling platform had me arguing in their comment section telling them that my workouts are going to be the future. Is a fact I don't lie and my strava is the proof.
370 FLEX
Training? Whats that? I hope it includes beer.
Hairpin Wizard states 16min but 4 x 3 = 12min
Seems like you can just do most of these workouts 2 in a row.
Sufferfest is even worse than Zwift. Spend too much time in zone 2 with very little zone 4/5 work
I don't care about cycling workouts but found this entertaining. I wish zwift would do a reply video😂
Seems like you made a video to just show off your ftp
Why?
First 👌
Hey Jesse, this is kind of worthless commentary as you are only theorizing, no practical application or testing of your critique - you don't use Zwift, so unless you''re prepared to road test the programs, can't see the point of this. a bit like talking about bikes without riding them.
I've spent nearly every day of the past 10 years looking at, analysing and learning the principles behind an endless number of workouts. I can confidently say I don't need to ride one of the workouts to know, for example, that 2m repeats at 115% of FTP isn't a VO2max stimulus or that descending the interval intensity through a session will result in a bigger aerobic stress.
If you don't like these types of videos, just don't watch, I think I remember you commenting on some of my other vids which you enjoy. I spent time making this video because someone specifically asked for it and wanted my opinion on them. Unfortunately for me I read most of the comments, this one has particularly annoyed me
@@nerocoaching fair enough ... a bit like the video criticism you did from trainerroad article where there was no referencing for the assumptions being made about nutrition etc.. you had a standard you expected from the article. cheap shots at zwift are easy to make, and I know you don't have any experience on Zwift and indoors, so it devalues your commentary. its just an opinion piece, I get that, but for the Zwift target audience the workouts are pretty good, I'm sure we could find holes in your workouts as well. 'Bike Racing without Mercy' is a pretty good testament to zwift workouts and he demonstrates it as well.So inevitably take a zwift plan, chuck Chris Miller on an 8 week ftp build for example and I bet he gets faster. then we have grounds for discussion, its called empirical evidence. sorry to sound intelligent I know its yt but had to call it out as someone who has used the plans and got to 4 watts per kg ftp using them. don't take things too personal on here, its just an opinion and we need to distance ourselves from the personal, once the video is made, it has its own life good or bad.
Just unsubscribe, honestly. You don’t seem to understand this channel. If you disagree with me on a point is this video, let me know what on specifically, as other commenters have, which is fair. I’m not against discussion or disagreement if you think I said something wrong.
Analysing Zwift workouts and giving them ratings good and bad isn’t “cheap shots”. I’m actually surprised you watch any of my other videos.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
@@nerocoaching ... so when are you going to ride on zwift to test the workouts in the real virtual world?
@@marcus_velo_9970 bit rich of you to go into a personal attack on a person and then say don't take it personally. As to your experiential comments, well yeah riding your bike more gets you fitter to an extent. But Chris's FTP would drop if he simply did these workouts. These workouts are generic for a generic mkt. JC is giving context of what the sessions can achieve. But you'd already know that...
I used Zwift training plans a few years back and actually felt I lost fitness as they seemed to be all over the place and didn’t seem to have a real goal to them. I’m not sure who plans the workouts. I then went to TrainerRoad but changed to wahooX and have made massive improvements.