This is so true, after 30 years of going to many many places to service faults and outages of all types of problems. There is always a pile of junk blocking the way. Also, I have found electrical panels enclosed hidden behind drywall, because the owner or manager didn't want to look at them. I was called to a store and in the back where the service entrance to the building. It was on fire. THEY called me because the lights were flickering off and on. As I pulled up I could see the smoke and flames. I called 911 and ran inside told everyone to get out leave there was a fire. Unbelievable, you stay in this business long enough you will almost see everything. And then you will see something new! It's a fact!.
This is an unwinnable battle.... How dare we electricians take away the only space for people to store their christmas decorations. Great job Dustin... Great Video
Electricians are not the only ones fighting this battle. Us gas techs have this issue all time. Walled in furnaces and hot water tanks are the most common. The home owner is always so shocked that "yes we need to be able to physically get to the appliances to be able to service or replace it"....
@@adamradley4407 People do not see the underlying dangers of their actions of blocking and violating Fire Codes, Building Codes, and Electrical Codes. They put their lives at risk and will not respect the safeguards that have been created to help keep them safe and those who have no clue what they have done to make their buildings unsafe. I call the building departments when I see major violations and I complain because it puts our lives at risk as well. Time and time over the years I have read stories of Firefighters losing their lives because someone decided to cut corners and violate the codes. Take care stay safe
If I encountered a continuing situation like this, I would call the fire department and have an inspector come out. Companies do understand getting fined.
Some of the worst violators will be hotels! Most of the time, electrical panel rooms will also be utilized for storing sheets, bedding, towels, etc. on each floor for housekeeping. You know... all that stuff that burns real well.
On a related note: working for an electric utility, we have to deal with people planting shrubbery right up against padmount equipment all the time. There are stickers on the equipment showing the clearances needed, but of course most people don't notice them or disregard them anyway. Then they get mad when we have to access the equipment and have to cut their plants down.
What's even more scary is when you come across a paddmounted equipment that has at one time been hit by a car , and the outer casing has been damaged, and then you see the little children playing on top of the device while the doors to access the device are clearly open , for some little child to explore out of curiosity, now parents could you imagine!!!
Not an electrician but still enjoy your videos. Been in manufacturing for over 40 years and have seen this sooo many times. Where I work now, only maintenance has access to the substation rooms so no issues there. It’s the equipment on the production floor that was the biggest challenge. We labeled everything with the clearance reqs, painted the floor yellow where practical for the clearance zones and guarding where needed. This has made it much easier to maintain.
Excellent video! Every apprentice or non electrician should watch it. My folks have an interior panel recessed in a wall inside a kitchen cabinet. Any time I’ve had to do electrical work at their house I have to empty the cabinet and remove all the shelves to access the panel. It’s amazing how inspectors ignore major electrical issues like that when you buy or sell a property!
Man, even as a low voltage guy I would warn customers about this. I once came across a situation where a commercial customer ran their own cat3 (I was a PBX tech) to save a buck, and they ran it to the space just above a transformer. Their expectation was that I would sit the PBX directly on the transformer. I ended up taking photos for my manager, informing the customer that I could not do what they asked, and walked out.
I’ve worked in low voltage for years and having done lighting control systems, I had one electrician tell me this exact story where a small-business customer kept putting things in front of an clearly marked electrical panel. He said that there was a partial fire in the electrical panel due to an overloaded circuit and, after seeing the after photos, the insurance company would not cover their claim due to evidential negligence. If you can get someone to understand how it would impact their pocketbook, they might actually listen. Love your channel, Dustin! Keep up the great content.
Worked at a newspaper where they popped pop corn in two large machines every Friday. They stored a skid of pop corn kernels inside of main switchgear room . I was the only sparky who complained about it. Luckily when the city did their yearly walk thru inspection they raised hell. Tell my maintenance boss that when he walks back thru room better be cleaned. Was nice to see two bosses doing some physical work. At a very large hospital that I retired from they provided space for everything but storage room for various boxes of lamps.Bulb boy would place halve dozen boxes of lamps toilet plungers paint etc in our rooms.We had Not for storage signs on some of the switchgear & panel rooms but did not help. Several times I moved their crap on roof. Loved when they stored two foot pile of paler on top of a hot transformer inside a hot room. More then once they wanted to know where their papers were moved to. I moved them to the dumpster.
I worked at a hospital and it was a constant battle keeping electrical panels clear. We even had a department manager install wall shelves over one. He was upset when I made him take them down so I could reset a circuit.
Part of the problem is buildings not having enough storage space in general. Too many times I've seen janitors closets used as the electrical closet. In one of the buildings I work at there's a shower installed in the electrical closet. They have bathrooms, but they decided to put the shower in the electrical closet for some reason.
We mark out the clearances with black and gold tape on the floor. And, they still put junk in the way. We had a stairwell which they constantly stored flammables under. We installed, a drywall fire barrier, and door to make it code compliant to store stuff under the stairs. It was two years before anyone stored things in the new closest under the stairs. In truth they don’t want to understand.
Heh. I've worked at a very large hotel for going on 3 years now. The main electrical room was mostly used for storage of tool carts. A couple of times an employee shut off a main for one of our 40 sub-panels with a tool cart.
I worked in a garage with several panels. We lost power to a extension cord real on the ceiling. Now the labels sucked in the panels! Over the years things got changed but not relabeled. I'd found a panel that mentioned ceiling outlets (reals were plugged into them) with several sewer items that were not in use (got put on city sewer when they ran a pipe down the road). Come to find out after enough digging, the main panels door was open. Stuff stores in front of hit hit a 220 feed. I suspect it fed the panel in the basement labeled for ceiling outlets. Since it was a tiny panel and most items not in use anymore, no one noticed. Until we needed the cord off the ceiling.
@@adamplummer2190 in the same hotel, I've gone to change out or service 240 volt stovetops, and the supposed breaker was the wrong one. Of course I ALWAYS check. 4 stories, 200 rooms, many sub panels, dozens of bad connections, mislabled circuits, damaged outlets. It's good experience all in one location.
@@aredditor4272 I gave up mechanics this year, at least temporarily. I'm driving for a home improvement/lumber company. I delivered tile to a hotel that got slapped by the fire Marshall, told they needed to replace all their tile after a fire. They had a laundry room under a motel room (one of the outside entry for each room deal with balcony) without any fire proofing. I'd the fire had gotten up the wall and to the ceiling, they'd of been in trouble. Ops. Luckily it didn't get there.
In Massachusetts 100% of elevator machine rooms are required to have a sign on the entry door that states that the machine room cannot be used for storage. I never understood why this is not the case in Massachusetts for electrical rooms.
Agreed. More often than not, that's where I would have to work because the electrical room is where the PBX was placed. This is especially true for the towers in Boston.
Agree it is silly not to do so but there is some history. Elevator wells/shafts are a great way to spread fires from one level to the next in multistoried building. They are a much higher risk than an electrical room because most electrical rooms will have fire retarding penetrations on cable ways and penetrations which are impossible in an elevator well/ shaft.
@@gizmobuddy805 i find it to be pretty common for communications, electrical, and fire protection to occupy the same rooms. It would be great to start seeing signs saying the room cannot be used for storage on the door.
So true. I manage data center co-location spaces (IT network engineer). The issue is the people who stack crap there are not electricians or IT staff and do not care. We label the gear and put signs up stating the area must remain clear. Dedicated electrical closets are not permitted to be used for storage and are locked.
Contractor installing paper towel dispenser (or some such) punched thru the wall, back panel of a distribution board and the screw hit the bus bar. Screw was grounded by the rear panel and he was using a double insulated screw gun. They had parked the pallet of toilet accessories in front of the recessed panel so carpenter didn't know the electrical board was there. Killed all the power in the wing, at night. Techs had flashlights but everyone else used their cell phone. Karma.
How many people found panels in the back of the men's rest room? Old janitorial closet with cleaning supplies. I've had to traverse a maze of single doors (no double egress passages - all "glory holes" [old definition, not the modern definition] ) to get to the panel. BTW - what about locks on panels ? Locked in the on position or the access door locked. Illegal but prevalent.
you wouldn't believe the stories of what I've encountered blocking breaker panels in homes and in commercial buildings, restaurants, medical offices, dentist offices, schools, and manufacturing businesses. Basically every structure for every type of occupancy in my over 30 yrs of being an electrician. not just things blocking breaker panels but panels installed in strange places and in strange ways, like above the door in a restroom in that small space between the door casing and the ceilingon the inside of a public restroom in a converted office space that used to be a super market. I've also seen panels installed one foot off the floor, also multiple panels, about nine of them on a wall with plywood backing layered like shingles on a roof to keep the Romex (in a commercial building) that ran to each panel which if you can't picture it, you'd have to remove every panel or some of them to access any wiring feeding the panels and branching out from the panels. Oh! lets not forget that the panel above the bathroom door was in the same building. it was the one panel that I couldn't find when trying to demo the existing electrical system and to top it off, all the panels were labeled which was very nice and the most professional aspect of the work they did, but unfortunately it was all written in Chinese and this is in California.
Being hired as an electrician doesn't mean you have to do the customers "SPRING CLEANING". That's a pro tip. Customer is liable for removal of all debris/obstructions to said work area. UNLESS you have a shitty boss that wants you to also waste time moving material that could be considered "VALUABLE PROPERTY" by the customer like "100 glass cat nicnaks".
Moving some boxres for a 75 year old woman in a residential situayion, that's one thing. In a commecial building, no way I am getting a pallet jack or moving their crap around.
Where I worked we built tent structures out of expanded metal that looked like a regular kids pup tent that was secured with two or four screws to the top of floor mounted transformers so no boxes were able to be set on them and it was not allowed to have even a rag or piece of paper on it. Painted safety yellow.
thank you for bringing this up, i have even over looked this in the code book as well, i do have one question can you do a video on service calculations? Yall just make it easier to understand
I was manager of systems engineering at a technology company and could not get the systems administrators to stop using the electrical rooms for storage. It was a monthly fight. I think the only way to stop this is to give the building enough storage in the first place. But the building owners can’t charge the same for a storage room as they can an office.
What you have to do is make it there problem and that doesn't work unless the building catches on fire. I just replaced a 12 x 12 J box because the wiring was too small for the amp the motor needed and burnt holes in the box.
actually, the building owners DO charge the same for storage as office space, as long as that space is within your office. Improper use of that space can void your lease agreement so now there's another tool.
I'm curious what insurance companies think about owners violating code? I work as a Network engineer and we are increasingly seeing companies come to us saying their insurance companies require them to be in compliance with certain cyber security requirements. Curious if this is true in the electrical world as well. Inspections only happen when stuff is being worked on, but insurance audits happen at regular intervals to the point where it may be just enough of a pain in the ass to stay compliant.
I don't know if it's actually true or not, but if I see people storing stuff in front of electrical panels I'll sometimes tell them that if they have a fire because of it the insurance company won't pay out since it was a code violation. Again, I'm not sure about whether or not this is actually true but sometimes it's one of the few things that will get them to realize they shouldn't do it
@@jonservo We have similar issues with some of our customers who like to use the networking closets for storage. We have had more than a few calls for a network going down because someone decided to store whatever in there and accidentally unplugged the network equipment. Its obviously not as high stakes as an electrical panel, but still the same mindset. Its why so many of our more mature customers lock the doors to the network rooms. This way only permitted personnel can access the room.
@@bassman87 depending on the company and what goes down, that costs money. Employees not working, sales not occuring, etc. Then there is cyber security. Having easy access to any network, especially main sections, opens you to attacks. Someone can plug in a pi with a wifi being generated then access the network from outside. No one would notice until someone from IT goes in the closet. They would be able to plug in anywhere a, even use a device as a pass thru to record things as it goes through then unencrypt it later. The possibilities are endless. They could plug directly into a router to modify security. Who knows. Servers, switches, and routers should be secured where practical. Obviously big building may have routers/switches in various locations making this more difficult, but I see them stashed in ceilings a lot making access difficult.
@@adamplummer2190 So there are more than a few enterprise level security protocols that can stop that from happening. 802.1x is the most common one. But in the spirit of this video, physical security is the first layer companies think about. Just locking the doors to the various closets keeps people out.
I wish there was a way to share photos on here, I have a doozy from a couple years ago, I was working for Mr. Electric at the time, it was a Simi retirement job, I went into full retirement after that. I had a call out to one of those facilities that have multiple units and basically doctors offices and such force in there. I forget now exactly what the main reason was for the call. But I just remember that when I went into the electrical room, when I opened the door, the first thing that I noticed was a strong smell of gasoline, turns out that apparently the grounds keeper decided that was a good place to keep some of his tools, along with a half full gas can, with an open spout sitting on top of a transformer, I immediately took a picture of it using pixa pro, so that I could use the caption bubble with the pointer, and I sent a copy of that picture to my boss, whom was the owner of that Mr. Electric franchise. And to the manager of that facility. Caption "Can someone please tell me what is wrong with this picture!!!"
We struggle with this at work as well though its gotten a bit better when the old guard employees left and we where able to hammer into the newer staff that "This is the way we do it." IE not storing stuff in front of the electrical panels. That said there is a lot of short term blocking (a day or a few hours usually) and its compounded by the panels all being in high traffic areas.
I've never heard of how it could be bad to wrap receptacles that generate no heat. The only thing I know you can't tape is dimmers and anything else with vents.
I'd argue that the second highest violation is duct seal on the outside entrance to a indoor panel or box. That's only because we've fixed so many that we've took it off of number 1.
I walked off a service call to a multiplex apartment building and called the fire marshal it was so bad. They're meters were in deep closets and had couches and beds shoved in front of them. I let the marshal deal with it.
A tree within the work space is always the worst, I’ve had to seriously mangle and even remove a few bushes to have enough space to safely work on an underground meter socket before. Thankfully my reciprocating saw and a brush cutting blade will make short work of most bushes and small trees.
It would be helpful in a video like this to talk about how much space is needed exactly and around which equipment. For example, just the panels? You mentioned tranformers. What else? I deep dive video helpful. Great content. Thanks for making it.
Electrical working space clearances are a code violation only during an electrical inspection or during a fire department inspection. Residential fire inspections are non existent and very infrequent in commercial spaces. As an electrician we can’t prevent the customer from doing whatever they want once we finish our work. The average consumer couldn’t care less about code compliance.
Ceiling must've been put it after the transformer and nobody knew anybetter. Definitely would recommend getting rid of some more tiles around it though.
So the building I was working on has panels behind doors with the swing to the panel. Multiple times my coworkers have been working on the panel (new build so usually dead but occasionally for fault finding it's live) and people have swung the door into them. Apparently it's allowed because when the door is closed there is 1m of space. Canadian btw. not sure if NEC says anything on it.
most of the enforcement for room clutter falls to annual inspections by the local fire marshal. They have all kinds of authority that few know about, including a full shutdown of the property till violations are resolved, although this generally doesn't happen.
i have recently had to go into about 10 different 7-11 stores to connect up new gas price signs. u would not believe the crap they have in a 8'x10' room ,panels all on one wall and gas and enviromental controls on the other ,boxes of crap all in front of everything u need to open and doubles as the managers office. my comment to them was "i can see the fire marshall has not been in here lately" .not to mention your head in the middle of all that EMF
I don't know the NEC requirements, but the OSHA standard requires clear space at least the width of the electrical panel or 30 inches wide, whichever is bigger, and at least 36 inches in front of panels, be clear of any obstruction(s).
I also believe its a fire code violation. yet i see this constantly in the automotive shops i worked in over the years. i've mounted the fire extinguisher that was on the shop wall to my tool box so its easy access and gives me more wall space.
One things for sure employees think the transformers are there work bench. I'm joking about the work bench. I have seen Maintenance rooms so full you couldn't walk into them. the other thing is balloons left at work after a birthday party and at 2AM i get a call saying the alarm is going off go see what's up . Never a dull day if you do maintenance.
New to the electrical field and a new DIYer. This may be a stupid question but if I'm doing electrical work, like rewiring my own home, do I have to adhere to the newest code which is 2023? Or can I just follow the code from 2017? Would that be legal work and safe?
Dustin thank you so much I am finishing up my associates right now these videos hold so much value and I can’t thank you enough you made me want to get into the field and now I’m so happy from the bottom of my heart Dustin thank you man
Putting a 3 foot pillar in the walkway so people can get in but big boxes and pallets can’t might be the only way to keep areas like this clear. Of course you would need a way to move the pillar incase a transformer needed replacing.
Excellent video. And quite right about the safety issues.... hoever their are 2 solutions to this..... wanna know. Comment to ask? Awsome beard electical santa.
Safety speaks softly (and carries a very large stick). So people tend to think it's bluffing. But the invoice speaks much more loudly and tends to get people's attention faster. Ever consider charging double or triple time for time spent clearing (or organizing/waiting for tenants to clear) the space around electrical equipment?
Thank you. So many people assume people know why they shouldn't block electrical rooms, but the truth is they never thought about it. Informing people of something they may be doing is wrong will bring this issue light and help solve this issue.
Imagine all the dust collecting in a mechanical room , and that dust starts too collect on the inside of the components in the mechanical room , well there will come a day where a home owner will just walk in , and place a box of some sort on a transformer or panel causing clumped dust to atomize in a electricaly charged live space which can start an electrical flash fire , that's just one reason !!
So I don’t where you work but nothing is ever on pallets ready to move. In commercial building it’s usually about 30 paint cans, 3-4 mud buckets and 4-5 boxes of fluorescent tubes and not on a pallet. If you are lucky.
Unless you have one already, can you do a video on the code about where service panels can be put in homes. I live in a home that was built in 1907. The main service panel is in the stairway to the basement. You have to stand on the bottom 3 steps to be able to reach it and to be able to reach to top most circuit breakers you kinda have to reach for them. So I was wonder what the current code on this was.
That is definitely a horrible spot. I know it's at least supposed to be as close to the outside meter as possible unless you're in some kind of apartment building.
@@KevinBenecke ... the problem is that retrofits are often given extra leeway for exactly what you have. The other half of the problem is your situation likely was done as a repair instead of with a permit and inspection. NEC does have minimum and maximum heights and clearances listed in the code, especially for panels that we need access to.
Please give clarity on the following: If ground rods become the primary source for grounding, then what size wire should be used for 100amp thru 800amp. Thx.
Ya. I keep trying to tell these ladies they can't hang paintings & pictures over their over their panels. They don't listen to me either. They all say "but it's so ugly... I don't want to have to look at it." But if there's an emergency, the fire department will be looking everywhere for the panel to cut power & they won't find it because it's hidden behind a portrait.
im no electrician so i dont know if it would fly but if i walked in and they had it blocked up id go up to them go yea cant do any work till yall have that stuff out of the way im here to work on the electrical not to clear your stuff out of there
The actual question should be "how quickly might YOU need to get to that panel some day during some emergency?" Words like "liability" tend to get thrown around when responses during emergencies are impeded by preventable circumstances, particularly when such circumstances violate local codes. How quickly might you need to get in there? I'll give you all the time you and your legal team need to think about it.
Some people don't understand sarcasm. Maybe you need to use that new-fangled method for internet sarcasm: "I pAiD foR AlL tHe sQuArE fOOtAgE sO I'm GoNnA uSe iT AlL tHe SqUaRe fOOtAgE!"
the key here is you are ALREADY USING THAT SPACE because the code says you need a certain amount for each panel or other mechanical item. The code does not allow for multiple uses within that dedicated space. Basically, poor planning on your part if you didn't rent / lease / buy / build enough room to comply.
Im a contractor and run across customers who have hired garage cabinet and slat wall systems installed on all the walls. The breaker panel is typically inside one of these cabinets with a hole cut in the rear cabinet wall to expose the panel. Is this considered a code violation for accessible space to the panel ?
@@freddybee4029 ... this is something a fire marshal can enforce because it becomes a life / safety issue for everyone in the building, not to mention it likely will violate the lease agreement.
Easily the most identifiable and obvious violation in industrial environments. NFPA code mimics NEC code but adds physical barriers, placards, and extra ingres. Older buildings that are may be allowed to operate without physical barriers but are required to have lines painted showing No Storage, and lines painted showing working clearances, say 10' for 480, with temporary barriers set up anytime a "Tool is required" in an open panel. For a decade i did lectric in large shipping facilities. Didn't know if i was Lead Electrician or Chief Pallet relocator. Should be no good reason your Electrician needs to be forklift certified if the building is conforming to code
The problem is when you're working like a weld shop There might be thousands of these panels and none of them need to be accessed With any type of regularity Yet they put them on walls that are premium space to Place weld machines There should be some common sense applied that if I put a 25 pound machine on a cart in front of the panel and you have an emergency you can push the d*** cart out of the way and get to the panel I don't need to leave you 3 feet all the time Also we need to figure out which panels actually need emergency access in which don't because every little tiny Sub panel full of breakers doesn't need access Especially since 99.99% of the users aren't qualified to go troubleshoot or turn off anything Thier required emergency response is to leave it's not gonna have a meaningful impact on the situation And in commercial situations now we put shut offs Adjacent to all the equipment anyway Secure your power right thereA lot of times these panels might be hundreds of feet from where their powers actually being utilized anyway so it might take you 2 hours just to find the panel so that's not emergent
We should make a way to block the panels on purpose with something that's storage on rails that you can just roll out of the way when you need to get to the panel But it would force people not to place anything else there
You see that a lot in food processing plants 3rd shift cleaning crews will forget to unlock the equipment and go home so they have to cut locks to start production.
We use to have this problem at work, but explaining to people *why* it's reasonable to keep electrical rooms clear solved the problem. So many electricians quote Code like it's God's commandments. One of the reasons I do my own electrical work is to avoid these holier than thou electricians. Just quoting code not only doesn't work, but causes people to do the opposite. People need to understand that others may not know what they know. Informing them without being a prick can go a *long way*
Well at least here the jurisdiction I'm in in Greenville South Carolina if they keep stuffing things in the way we just call code enforcement and they handle it for us ually with a very large fine
Someone should design stickers for that. Nothing stupid like the ones in use now, but something like "teleportation area, leave your stuff here and you might just lose it forever". With those, you're able to just carry everything valuable to the parking lot or to the roof and trash etc to the office of the biggest boss. Most creatively stupid placement works best. Funniest thing I have found blocking the work area in front of electrical cabinet was ~3/4 scale papier-mache human figure praying on its knees at a church. Told my colleagues that church people had tried their best with what they know and then called me to do some electrical exorcism.
Someone should make a sign , you might own the building you live in and all those spaces , but we the union of electricians own the electrical room of your home , and we prohibit you from using this space for your junk , and then put a fine of the cost of the house in the buyers agreement of a value of today homes in that community of size . I guarantee you once this steep penalty hits you , you would never use this room as your personal storage room again !! Because if you purchased a home for 1 million, you will have to pay that plus the cost of the build of a new home or business !!
This is so true, after 30 years of going to many many places to service faults and outages of all types of problems. There is always a pile of junk blocking the way. Also, I have found electrical panels enclosed hidden behind drywall, because the owner or manager didn't want to look at them. I was called to a store and in the back where the service entrance to the building. It was on fire. THEY called me because the lights were flickering off and on. As I pulled up I could see the smoke and flames. I called 911 and ran inside told everyone to get out leave there was a fire. Unbelievable, you stay in this business long enough you will almost see everything. And then you will see something new! It's a fact!.
This is an unwinnable battle.... How dare we electricians take away the only space for people to store their christmas decorations. Great job Dustin... Great Video
Just Let the Fire Marshal fight the battle. A discreet phone call usually does the trick.
Electricians are not the only ones fighting this battle. Us gas techs have this issue all time. Walled in furnaces and hot water tanks are the most common. The home owner is always so shocked that "yes we need to be able to physically get to the appliances to be able to service or replace it"....
@@adamradley4407 People do not see the underlying dangers of their actions of blocking and violating Fire Codes, Building Codes, and Electrical Codes. They put their lives at risk and will not respect the safeguards that have been created to help keep them safe and those who have no clue what they have done to make their buildings unsafe. I call the building departments when I see major violations and I complain because it puts our lives at risk as well. Time and time over the years I have read stories of Firefighters losing their lives because someone decided to cut corners and violate the codes. Take care stay safe
@@rcmrcm3370 that’s high IQ move
If I encountered a continuing situation like this, I would call the fire department and have an inspector come out. Companies do understand getting fined.
Mess with their money, that's the only thing they'll understand.
Some of the worst violators will be hotels! Most of the time, electrical panel rooms will also be utilized for storing sheets, bedding, towels, etc. on each floor for housekeeping. You know... all that stuff that burns real well.
Same with office buildings they tend to use them as a bigger janitors closet
On a related note: working for an electric utility, we have to deal with people planting shrubbery right up against padmount equipment all the time. There are stickers on the equipment showing the clearances needed, but of course most people don't notice them or disregard them anyway. Then they get mad when we have to access the equipment and have to cut their plants down.
You can always let the fire department be the bad guys and after a heavy fine the criminals probably won't repeat that mistake.
@@rcmrcm3370 yup and it's not like you can switch power company's after.
Lol omg I know what you mean !!!
What's even more scary is when you come across a paddmounted equipment that has at one time been hit by a car , and the outer casing has been damaged, and then you see the little children playing on top of the device while the doors to access the device are clearly open , for some little child to explore out of curiosity, now parents could you imagine!!!
Not an electrician but still enjoy your videos. Been in manufacturing for over 40 years and have seen this sooo many times. Where I work now, only maintenance has access to the substation rooms so no issues there. It’s the equipment on the production floor that was the biggest challenge. We labeled everything with the clearance reqs, painted the floor yellow where practical for the clearance zones and guarding where needed. This has made it much easier to maintain.
Excellent video! Every apprentice or non electrician should watch it. My folks have an interior panel recessed in a wall inside a kitchen cabinet. Any time I’ve had to do electrical work at their house I have to empty the cabinet and remove all the shelves to access the panel. It’s amazing how inspectors ignore major electrical issues like that when you buy or sell a property!
Man, even as a low voltage guy I would warn customers about this. I once came across a situation where a commercial customer ran their own cat3 (I was a PBX tech) to save a buck, and they ran it to the space just above a transformer. Their expectation was that I would sit the PBX directly on the transformer. I ended up taking photos for my manager, informing the customer that I could not do what they asked, and walked out.
I've seen osha fine companies for this.
@@CarnivoreConservative heh I have no doubt of that. That's why I always did my best to make sure I left job sites better than I found them.
I’ve worked in low voltage for years and having done lighting control systems, I had one electrician tell me this exact story where a small-business customer kept putting things in front of an clearly marked electrical panel. He said that there was a partial fire in the electrical panel due to an overloaded circuit and, after seeing the after photos, the insurance company would not cover their claim due to evidential negligence. If you can get someone to understand how it would impact their pocketbook, they might actually listen.
Love your channel, Dustin! Keep up the great content.
Worked at a newspaper where they popped pop corn in two large machines every Friday. They stored a skid of pop corn kernels inside of main switchgear room . I was the only sparky who complained about it. Luckily when the city did their yearly walk thru inspection they raised hell. Tell my maintenance boss that when he walks back thru room better be cleaned. Was nice to see two bosses doing some physical work. At a very large hospital that I retired from they provided space for everything but storage room for various boxes of lamps.Bulb boy would place halve dozen boxes of lamps toilet plungers paint etc in our rooms.We had Not for storage signs on some of the switchgear & panel rooms but did not help. Several times I moved their crap on roof. Loved when they stored two foot pile of paler on top of a hot transformer inside a hot room. More then once they wanted to know where their papers were moved to. I moved them to the dumpster.
Retired Fire Marshal here. With virtually every fire inspection I performed, THIS is a violation that gets written up every time!
That was forever my pet peeve in the plant I retired from. I was the in-house electrician and someone was always parking junk in front of my panels.
Same here it's always a battle and our warnings always fall on death's ears. They think it's no big deal
We have a safety co-ordinator who inspects all panels throughout our buildings making sure they are not obstructed. I’m a Federal building mechanic.
I worked at a hospital and it was a constant battle keeping electrical panels clear.
We even had a department manager install wall shelves over one. He was upset when I made him take them down so I could reset a circuit.
That manager should have been fired on the spot, for putting lives at risk
Part of the problem is buildings not having enough storage space in general. Too many times I've seen janitors closets used as the electrical closet. In one of the buildings I work at there's a shower installed in the electrical closet. They have bathrooms, but they decided to put the shower in the electrical closet for some reason.
We mark out the clearances with black and gold tape on the floor. And, they still put junk in the way. We had a stairwell which they constantly stored flammables under. We installed, a drywall fire barrier, and door to make it code compliant to store stuff under the stairs. It was two years before anyone stored things in the new closest under the stairs. In truth they don’t want to understand.
Heh. I've worked at a very large hotel for going on 3 years now. The main electrical room was mostly used for storage of tool carts. A couple of times an employee shut off a main for one of our 40 sub-panels with a tool cart.
I worked in a garage with several panels. We lost power to a extension cord real on the ceiling. Now the labels sucked in the panels! Over the years things got changed but not relabeled. I'd found a panel that mentioned ceiling outlets (reals were plugged into them) with several sewer items that were not in use (got put on city sewer when they ran a pipe down the road). Come to find out after enough digging, the main panels door was open. Stuff stores in front of hit hit a 220 feed. I suspect it fed the panel in the basement labeled for ceiling outlets. Since it was a tiny panel and most items not in use anymore, no one noticed. Until we needed the cord off the ceiling.
@@adamplummer2190 in the same hotel, I've gone to change out or service 240 volt stovetops, and the supposed breaker was the wrong one. Of course I ALWAYS check. 4 stories, 200 rooms, many sub panels, dozens of bad connections, mislabled circuits, damaged outlets. It's good experience all in one location.
@@aredditor4272 I gave up mechanics this year, at least temporarily. I'm driving for a home improvement/lumber company. I delivered tile to a hotel that got slapped by the fire Marshall, told they needed to replace all their tile after a fire. They had a laundry room under a motel room (one of the outside entry for each room deal with balcony) without any fire proofing. I'd the fire had gotten up the wall and to the ceiling, they'd of been in trouble. Ops. Luckily it didn't get there.
In Massachusetts 100% of elevator machine rooms are required to have a sign on the entry door that states that the machine room cannot be used for storage. I never understood why this is not the case in Massachusetts for electrical rooms.
Agreed. More often than not, that's where I would have to work because the electrical room is where the PBX was placed. This is especially true for the towers in Boston.
Agree it is silly not to do so but there is some history. Elevator wells/shafts are a great way to spread fires from one level to the next in multistoried building. They are a much higher risk than an electrical room because most electrical rooms will have fire retarding penetrations on cable ways and penetrations which are impossible in an elevator well/ shaft.
@@gizmobuddy805 i find it to be pretty common for communications, electrical, and fire protection to occupy the same rooms. It would be great to start seeing signs saying the room cannot be used for storage on the door.
So true. I manage data center co-location spaces (IT network engineer). The issue is the people who stack crap there are not electricians or IT staff and do not care. We label the gear and put signs up stating the area must remain clear. Dedicated electrical closets are not permitted to be used for storage and are locked.
Went into one truck shop they had their keyring board screwed into a live panel with random length selftappers.... fun times
"Why is this keyring glowing? And why is it smoking?"
"That's the Key of Power. No one who has touched it has survived."
Contractor installing paper towel dispenser (or some such) punched thru the wall, back panel of a distribution board and the screw hit the bus bar. Screw was grounded by the rear panel and he was using a double insulated screw gun. They had parked the pallet of toilet accessories in front of the recessed panel so carpenter didn't know the electrical board was there. Killed all the power in the wing, at night. Techs had flashlights but everyone else used their cell phone. Karma.
I'm always happy to wait at $90 per hour while they move it.
I have one single word to confirm this…
Restaurant.
"What do you do in an emergency?"
Every worker ever: "Not my money let'er burn".
How many people found panels in the back of the men's rest room? Old janitorial closet with cleaning supplies.
I've had to traverse a maze of single doors (no double egress passages - all "glory holes" [old definition, not the modern definition] ) to get to the panel.
BTW - what about locks on panels ? Locked in the on position or the access door locked. Illegal but prevalent.
You are 100% correct!
you wouldn't believe the stories of what I've encountered blocking breaker panels in homes and in commercial buildings, restaurants, medical offices, dentist offices, schools, and manufacturing businesses. Basically every structure for every type of occupancy in my over 30 yrs of being an electrician.
not just things blocking breaker panels but panels installed in strange places and in strange ways, like above the door in a restroom in that small space between the door casing and the ceilingon the inside of a public restroom in a converted office space that used to be a super market. I've also seen panels installed one foot off the floor, also multiple panels, about nine of them on a wall with plywood backing layered like shingles on a roof to keep the Romex (in a commercial building) that ran to each panel which if you can't picture it, you'd have to remove every panel or some of them to access any wiring feeding the panels and branching out from the panels. Oh! lets not forget that the panel above the bathroom door was in the same building. it was the one panel that I couldn't find when trying to demo the existing electrical system and to top it off, all the panels were labeled which was very nice and the most professional aspect of the work they did, but unfortunately it was all written in Chinese and this is in California.
Also so firefighters can get to the equipment in an emergency so they can shut off breakers
Readily accessible?!?
I think not!
Being hired as an electrician doesn't mean you have to do the customers "SPRING CLEANING".
That's a pro tip. Customer is liable for removal of all debris/obstructions to said work area.
UNLESS you have a shitty boss that wants you to also waste time moving material that could be considered "VALUABLE PROPERTY" by the customer like "100 glass cat nicnaks".
If they want to pay $90 an hour for an electrician to do their spring cleaning, then so be it.
Moving some boxres for a 75 year old woman in a residential situayion, that's one thing. In a commecial building, no way I am getting a pallet jack or moving their crap around.
Where I worked we built tent structures out of expanded metal that looked like a regular kids pup tent that was secured with two or four screws to the top of floor mounted transformers so no boxes were able to be set on them and it was not allowed to have even a rag or piece of paper on it. Painted safety yellow.
thank you for bringing this up, i have even over looked this in the code book as well, i do have one question can you do a video on service calculations? Yall just make it easier to understand
I was manager of systems engineering at a technology company and could not get the systems administrators to stop using the electrical rooms for storage. It was a monthly fight. I think the only way to stop this is to give the building enough storage in the first place. But the building owners can’t charge the same for a storage room as they can an office.
What you have to do is make it there problem and that doesn't work unless the building catches on fire. I just replaced a 12 x 12 J box because the wiring was too small for the amp the motor needed and burnt holes in the box.
actually, the building owners DO charge the same for storage as office space, as long as that space is within your office. Improper use of that space can void your lease agreement so now there's another tool.
I'm curious what insurance companies think about owners violating code? I work as a Network engineer and we are increasingly seeing companies come to us saying their insurance companies require them to be in compliance with certain cyber security requirements. Curious if this is true in the electrical world as well.
Inspections only happen when stuff is being worked on, but insurance audits happen at regular intervals to the point where it may be just enough of a pain in the ass to stay compliant.
Fire inspection might help a bunch too.
I don't know if it's actually true or not, but if I see people storing stuff in front of electrical panels I'll sometimes tell them that if they have a fire because of it the insurance company won't pay out since it was a code violation. Again, I'm not sure about whether or not this is actually true but sometimes it's one of the few things that will get them to realize they shouldn't do it
@@jonservo We have similar issues with some of our customers who like to use the networking closets for storage. We have had more than a few calls for a network going down because someone decided to store whatever in there and accidentally unplugged the network equipment. Its obviously not as high stakes as an electrical panel, but still the same mindset. Its why so many of our more mature customers lock the doors to the network rooms. This way only permitted personnel can access the room.
@@bassman87 depending on the company and what goes down, that costs money. Employees not working, sales not occuring, etc. Then there is cyber security. Having easy access to any network, especially main sections, opens you to attacks. Someone can plug in a pi with a wifi being generated then access the network from outside. No one would notice until someone from IT goes in the closet. They would be able to plug in anywhere a, even use a device as a pass thru to record things as it goes through then unencrypt it later. The possibilities are endless. They could plug directly into a router to modify security. Who knows. Servers, switches, and routers should be secured where practical. Obviously big building may have routers/switches in various locations making this more difficult, but I see them stashed in ceilings a lot making access difficult.
@@adamplummer2190 So there are more than a few enterprise level security protocols that can stop that from happening. 802.1x is the most common one. But in the spirit of this video, physical security is the first layer companies think about. Just locking the doors to the various closets keeps people out.
I wish there was a way to share photos on here, I have a doozy from a couple years ago, I was working for Mr. Electric at the time, it was a Simi retirement job, I went into full retirement after that. I had a call out to one of those facilities that have multiple units and basically doctors offices and such force in there. I forget now exactly what the main reason was for the call. But I just remember that when I went into the electrical room, when I opened the door, the first thing that I noticed was a strong smell of gasoline, turns out that apparently the grounds keeper decided that was a good place to keep some of his tools, along with a half full gas can, with an open spout sitting on top of a transformer, I immediately took a picture of it using pixa pro, so that I could use the caption bubble with the pointer, and I sent a copy of that picture to my boss, whom was the owner of that Mr. Electric franchise. And to the manager of that facility. Caption
"Can someone please tell me what is wrong with this picture!!!"
We struggle with this at work as well though its gotten a bit better when the old guard employees left and we where able to hammer into the newer staff that "This is the way we do it." IE not storing stuff in front of the electrical panels. That said there is a lot of short term blocking (a day or a few hours usually) and its compounded by the panels all being in high traffic areas.
You should do a video on wrapping electrical outlets in electrical tape, code, reason why, and why it might be a bad idea.
I've never heard of how it could be bad to wrap receptacles that generate no heat. The only thing I know you can't tape is dimmers and anything else with vents.
I have done that a few times but only when the box was a tight fit for the receptacle, especially the mud rings.
There’s no code that requires devices to have tape on them
@@Nick-bh1fy Our plant required all electrical and machinery to have the boundaries taped out on the floor to mark boundaries. It didn't work well.
@@JWimpy I mean tape covering the live terminals lol
not just code code is the law and this will also violate ossha and fire
In North Carolina the annual Fire Department inspection will bust you for that.
I'd argue that the second highest violation is duct seal on the outside entrance to a indoor panel or box. That's only because we've fixed so many that we've took it off of number 1.
I walked off a service call to a multiplex apartment building and called the fire marshal it was so bad. They're meters were in deep closets and had couches and beds shoved in front of them. I let the marshal deal with it.
I seen drink machines in the working space before. Also seen an McD's plant a tree in the working space.
A tree within the work space is always the worst, I’ve had to seriously mangle and even remove a few bushes to have enough space to safely work on an underground meter socket before. Thankfully my reciprocating saw and a brush cutting blade will make short work of most bushes and small trees.
Was in a house today where there was junk everywhere where I was working.
It would be helpful in a video like this to talk about how much space is needed exactly and around which equipment. For example, just the panels? You mentioned tranformers. What else? I deep dive video helpful. Great content. Thanks for making it.
Electrical working space clearances are a code violation only during an electrical inspection or during a fire department inspection. Residential fire inspections are non existent and very infrequent in commercial spaces. As an electrician we can’t prevent the customer from doing whatever they want once we finish our work. The average consumer couldn’t care less about code compliance.
2:44 are we really not going to talk about the transformer half suspended inside the drop ceiling?
Ceiling must've been put it after the transformer and nobody knew anybetter. Definitely would recommend getting rid of some more tiles around it though.
So the building I was working on has panels behind doors with the swing to the panel. Multiple times my coworkers have been working on the panel (new build so usually dead but occasionally for fault finding it's live) and people have swung the door into them. Apparently it's allowed because when the door is closed there is 1m of space. Canadian btw. not sure if NEC says anything on it.
Another great video video Dustin .
Retail stores are notorious for storing the crap in electrical rooms, especially Ross
most of the enforcement for room clutter falls to annual inspections by the local fire marshal. They have all kinds of authority that few know about, including a full shutdown of the property till violations are resolved, although this generally doesn't happen.
i have recently had to go into about 10 different 7-11 stores to connect up new gas price signs. u would not believe the crap they have in a 8'x10' room ,panels all on one wall and gas and enviromental controls on the other ,boxes of crap all in front of everything u need to open and doubles as the managers office. my comment to them was "i can see the fire marshall has not been in here lately" .not to mention your head in the middle of all that EMF
Amen 100% agree people just don't know 3 ft rules for a reason I say you should be a 10 ft rule
I don't know the NEC requirements, but the OSHA standard requires clear space at least the width of the electrical panel or 30 inches wide, whichever is bigger, and at least 36 inches in front of panels, be clear of any obstruction(s).
I also believe its a fire code violation. yet i see this constantly in the automotive shops i worked in over the years. i've mounted the fire extinguisher that was on the shop wall to my tool box so its easy access and gives me more wall space.
One things for sure employees think the transformers are there work bench. I'm joking about the work bench. I have seen Maintenance rooms so full you couldn't walk into them. the other thing is balloons left at work after a birthday party and at 2AM i get a call saying the alarm is going off go see what's up . Never a dull day if you do maintenance.
New to the electrical field and a new DIYer. This may be a stupid question but if I'm doing electrical work, like rewiring my own home, do I have to adhere to the newest code which is 2023? Or can I just follow the code from 2017? Would that be legal work and safe?
Dustin thank you so much I am finishing up my associates right now these videos hold so much value and I can’t thank you enough you made me want to get into the field and now I’m so happy from the bottom of my heart Dustin thank you man
Putting a 3 foot pillar in the walkway so people can get in but big boxes and pallets can’t might be the only way to keep areas like this clear. Of course you would need a way to move the pillar incase a transformer needed replacing.
Excellent video. And quite right about the safety issues.... hoever their are 2 solutions to this..... wanna know. Comment to ask? Awsome beard electical santa.
Depending on where you are, your client may also be violating local fire codes if they are a commercial operation.
Hey buddy what’s the code on access hatches in ceilings ? Is there a clearance code on how close electrical equipment can be
Safety speaks softly (and carries a very large stick). So people tend to think it's bluffing. But the invoice speaks much more loudly and tends to get people's attention faster. Ever consider charging double or triple time for time spent clearing (or organizing/waiting for tenants to clear) the space around electrical equipment?
Probably the best reason for locked cages.
As a locksmith, I try to help by telling customers.
Thank you. So many people assume people know why they shouldn't block electrical rooms, but the truth is they never thought about it. Informing people of something they may be doing is wrong will bring this issue light and help solve this issue.
3:52 yeah yeah yeah buddy I've seen the movie transformers right gotcha 🤓😎🤔🧐
Imagine all the dust collecting in a mechanical room , and that dust starts too collect on the inside of the components in the mechanical room , well there will come a day where a home owner will just walk in , and place a box of some sort on a transformer or panel causing clumped dust to atomize in a electricaly charged live space which can start an electrical flash fire , that's just one reason !!
first comment I am a fan of your videos I have learned a lot from you I currently live in North Carolina greetings
Ayyye 704 GANG
I flat out don't move customers propert or products. If they don't want to move it I leave
Either the clearance or the neat ad workman like manner are the most violated codes.
Thanks!
It's all happy go lucky till the Fire Marshall comes through.
So I don’t where you work but nothing is ever on pallets ready to move. In commercial building it’s usually about 30 paint cans, 3-4 mud buckets and 4-5 boxes of fluorescent tubes and not on a pallet. If you are lucky.
Unless you have one already, can you do a video on the code about where service panels can be put in homes. I live in a home that was built in 1907. The main service panel is in the stairway to the basement. You have to stand on the bottom 3 steps to be able to reach it and to be able to reach to top most circuit breakers you kinda have to reach for them. So I was wonder what the current code on this was.
That is definitely a horrible spot. I know it's at least supposed to be as close to the outside meter as possible unless you're in some kind of apartment building.
@@xylexut2589 The meter is actually right on the other side of the wall. It's an outside wall.
@@KevinBenecke ... the problem is that retrofits are often given extra leeway for exactly what you have. The other half of the problem is your situation likely was done as a repair instead of with a permit and inspection. NEC does have minimum and maximum heights and clearances listed in the code, especially for panels that we need access to.
Ironic that the only part of the wall you could still see was a sign that said "Keep Clear - 4 Feet"
Is there a minimum space required between electrical equipment?
This drives me nuts. No amount of signage can overcome an apathetic building owner.
Please give clarity on the following: If ground rods become the primary source for grounding, then what size wire should be used for 100amp thru 800amp. Thx.
each service size has its own ground wire size.
hey man, they’re paying for me moving their stuff 🤷🏼♂️
in hospitality they said not to have anything on the transformers even if its light or anything beside the transformer.
Ya. I keep trying to tell these ladies they can't hang paintings & pictures over their over their panels. They don't listen to me either. They all say "but it's so ugly... I don't want to have to look at it." But if there's an emergency, the fire department will be looking everywhere for the panel to cut power & they won't find it because it's hidden behind a portrait.
im no electrician so i dont know if it would fly but if i walked in and they had it blocked up id go up to them go yea cant do any work till yall have that stuff out of the way im here to work on the electrical not to clear your stuff out of there
Yea… but how often do you really need to get into those panels…. I paid for all the square footage so I’m gonna use it all the square footage!
The actual question should be "how quickly might YOU need to get to that panel some day during some emergency?"
Words like "liability" tend to get thrown around when responses during emergencies are impeded by preventable circumstances, particularly when such circumstances violate local codes.
How quickly might you need to get in there? I'll give you all the time you and your legal team need to think about it.
It takes less time to be ignorant then it doesn't to understand logically.
You're working hard to collect your Darwin Award.
Some people don't understand sarcasm. Maybe you need to use that new-fangled method for internet sarcasm: "I pAiD foR AlL tHe sQuArE fOOtAgE sO I'm GoNnA uSe iT AlL tHe SqUaRe fOOtAgE!"
the key here is you are ALREADY USING THAT SPACE because the code says you need a certain amount for each panel or other mechanical item. The code does not allow for multiple uses within that dedicated space. Basically, poor planning on your part if you didn't rent / lease / buy / build enough room to comply.
Why fight it? Service charge and out with a "Thanks for wasting my time and yours."
Love this video, hope you make a series out of it I’d love to watch/ learn more
Im a contractor and run across customers who have hired garage cabinet and slat wall systems installed on all the walls. The breaker panel is typically inside one of these cabinets with a hole cut in the rear cabinet wall to expose the panel. Is this considered a code violation for accessible space to the panel ?
Absolutely, it is a code violation, nor only building code, but electrical code
@@freddybee4029 ... this is something a fire marshal can enforce because it becomes a life / safety issue for everyone in the building, not to mention it likely will violate the lease agreement.
100% agree!!!
*They* will move it before I work. I will wait
Easily the most identifiable and obvious violation in industrial environments. NFPA code mimics NEC code but adds physical barriers, placards, and extra ingres. Older buildings that are may be allowed to operate without physical barriers but are required to have lines painted showing No Storage, and lines painted showing working clearances, say 10' for 480, with temporary barriers set up anytime a "Tool is required" in an open panel. For a decade i did lectric in large shipping facilities. Didn't know if i was Lead Electrician or Chief Pallet relocator. Should be no good reason your Electrician needs to be forklift certified if the building is conforming to code
I was told a full size fridge size in front of the panel..
Greatest video awesomeness!!
It's also an OSHA violation
The problem is when you're working like a weld shop There might be thousands of these panels and none of them need to be accessed With any type of regularity
Yet they put them on walls that are premium space to Place
weld machines
There should be some common sense applied that if I put a 25 pound machine on a cart in front of the panel and you have an emergency you can push the d*** cart out of the way and get to the panel I don't need to leave you 3 feet all the time
Also we need to figure out which panels actually need emergency access in which don't because every little tiny Sub panel full of breakers doesn't need access
Especially since 99.99% of the users aren't qualified to go troubleshoot or turn off anything Thier required emergency response is to leave it's not gonna have a meaningful impact on the situation
And in commercial situations now we put shut offs Adjacent to all the equipment anyway Secure your power right thereA lot of times these panels might be hundreds of feet from where their powers actually being utilized anyway so it might take you 2 hours just to find the panel so that's not emergent
We should make a way to block the panels on purpose with something that's storage on rails that you can just roll out of the way when you need to get to the panel But it would force people not to place anything else there
Is painting electrical equipment the next most common code violation?
Call the fire Marshall to come take a look. They won't do it ever again, unless they have deep pockets
Amen.
I refuse to work at any client site that has bolt cutters in the shop floor manager's office. You know they don't care about safety lockouts.
You see that a lot in food processing plants 3rd shift cleaning crews will forget to unlock the equipment and go home so they have to cut locks to start production.
This is probably the most common citation that I write has a fire marsha
We use to have this problem at work, but explaining to people *why* it's reasonable to keep electrical rooms clear solved the problem.
So many electricians quote Code like it's God's commandments. One of the reasons I do my own electrical work is to avoid these holier than thou electricians.
Just quoting code not only doesn't work, but causes people to do the opposite.
People need to understand that others may not know what they know. Informing them without being a prick can go a *long way*
Well at least here the jurisdiction I'm in in Greenville South Carolina if they keep stuffing things in the way we just call code enforcement and they handle it for us ually with a very large fine
And if you want to give him a bigger fine get a hold of the fire marshal
Someone should design stickers for that. Nothing stupid like the ones in use now, but something like "teleportation area, leave your stuff here and you might just lose it forever". With those, you're able to just carry everything valuable to the parking lot or to the roof and trash etc to the office of the biggest boss. Most creatively stupid placement works best.
Funniest thing I have found blocking the work area in front of electrical cabinet was ~3/4 scale papier-mache human figure praying on its knees at a church. Told my colleagues that church people had tried their best with what they know and then called me to do some electrical exorcism.
~... or your paycheck may be garnished for the fine"
Someone should make a sign , you might own the building you live in and all those spaces , but we the union of electricians own the electrical room of your home , and we prohibit you from using this space for your junk , and then put a fine of the cost of the house in the buyers agreement of a value of today homes in that community of size . I guarantee you once this steep penalty hits you , you would never use this room as your personal storage room again !!
Because if you purchased a home for 1 million, you will have to pay that plus the cost of the build of a new home or business !!