Tears of the Kingdom DIVIDED The Zelda Fanbase!?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- This is a follow-up to my previous video on the discussion I had regarding TOTK, as well as recognizing some things that came to light regarding the STATE of the Timeline and Lore of the Zelda series. There are old school theorizing fans and new fans of the open world, with Nintendo giving leeway to what's making more money. How does this affect the series going forward?!
Every Zelda divides the fandom. There are always those who just enjoy the game - those who adore it - those who adore it to unhealthy degrees - those who think it's just fine - those who hate it - and those who can't stop b*tching about it and act like it killed their newborn baby kitten. With the last one often being the vocal minority.
But yeah, this time it's special. I am stuck inbetween the fronts. I love what we get now - but I certainly would also love a return to more "story-respecting" and even "classical" Zelda.
Nintendo : The lore is secondary
Nintendo : Publish Hytule Historia
If they're taking a gameplay-first approach they need to actually listen to and address feedback on the gameplay, which they didn't do at all with Tears of the Kingdom
I’m a veteran Zelda fan and I love BOTW and TOTK… BOTW and TOTK bought something new and fresh into the franchise, I’ve invested more time in both games than any other title.
It is very exciting to say the least what will come next.
I’m hoping for a balance of old and new but Nintendo having done away with the old formula, who knows what to expect?
As for the timeline, it wasn’t something that I ever thought about until it was officially released by Nintendo and I don’t think they have dismissed it, I believe Nintendo stated that BOTW is placed at the end of the timeline, with previous games being way in the past.
as much as I enjoyed Breath of the Wild (my Switch bricked before TotK released and it hasn't been replaced or repaired since), I grew up on Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, The Wind Waker, and I still play those games every year to this day, and it feels like the stuff with Breath of the Wild is deliberately throwing away much of what made the older games great, and if they continue to do so, they will throw my interest in the continuing series away as well.
It's especially vexing that I chose from before I was capable of memory to wield my sword with predominantly my left hand because that's what Link did, and now we don't even have THAT in the series anymore.
And from the gameplay standpoint, while I appreciated the more free-flow gameplay of Breath of the Wild, it soon became disengaging.
The only challenges in the game left - including DLC - are all combat-oriented, which I find very strange for a game with supposedly so many "puzzles".
By switching to a design philosophy where all "puzzles" must have multiple solutions, they have devolved into having every solution, into nothing more than how to apply element X to target Y.
It's now an open-world action RPG that only gets interesting when the "RPG" temporarily suspends your progression for the sake of presenting a challenge.
If this is the only way Aonuma can see the series going from here, then he needs better glasses.
from a Raw Gameplay Perspective, I love TOTK. From a story perspective....I'll stick to Age of Calamity, thank you very much.
Every Zelda game "divides" the fanbase, there's just people who cannot stand other people enjoying something -especially if they have nitpicks or complaints. if those people feel certain features or mechanics detract from their enjoyment but others are fine with, or appreciate how those mechanics make the game stand out from the others in the series, then the formerly mentioned people often get upset.
This most often comes up with Weapon degradation. Some people hate it, but most people don't even think about it as an issue and can enjoy the game regardless, in fact I'm in the camp of appreciating how that mechanic works with the rest of the game.
I've played every Zelda, grew up on OoT, MM, WW, but I'm not one to let nostalgia blind me from the quality in some modern games, and for that reason I really love Botw and TotK. Totk more now because I think its more creative and its more fun than any prior Zelda imo.
Nothing wrong with TOTK or BOTW. I’m one of those people that play the newest game in a series if it’s what grabbed my attention (say a new Batman came out and caught my interest. I’d play that, then venture down the list of Batman games in descending order. Also allowing me to soak in the lower quality visuals and clunkier mechanics one game at a time.) I plan to do the same with Zelda.
TotK was too repetitive and had too much filler, especially in the Depths.
@EWWFFIX7753 eh idk man. Have you seen most modern AAA games? Just exploring and finding new puzzles was fun in TOTK
@@codingandquesting *Just exploring and finding new puzzles was fun in TOTK.*
It gets boring very quickly when you encounter the same type of shrine over and over again, like the Blessing Shrines, to which they're 48 of them. This was a problem in Breath of the Wild and they doubled down on it in Tears of the Kingdom. Really disappointing.
New puzzles aren't interesting either because they're part of the exploration but if you've already played Breath of the Wild, exploring the same map wears thin.
@@BubblesChika to me finding the puzzle and shrines themselves was the fun part.. the actual shrine was easy.
@@codingandquesting And that becomes tiresome and disappointing when it's just the same old crap we found before. It's just not rewarding exploring only to find another blessing shrine or a lame amiibo armor set
I liked this vid. My first zelda was zelda (the original one) which i played with my dad. Eventually, I got BOTW and loved it. I largely agree with this standpoint that the lore should be respected. I do however, understand the new players' standpoint that this should be the way zelda is. I like the open worlld style of Botw and Totk, and had trouble figuring out where to go or what to do in older zeldas. The lore overall felt unwelcoming to me, a newcomer, due to branching timelines, and the games being non-chronological. The lore is a deep and rich story that deserves to be respected, but starting a new timeline with botw and totk would not hurt. That's my opinon, though. Loved the vid, written and voiced well!
I sort of fall in the middle because the recent two are now my favorite over all the others i played, but i also desire a timeline.
I like to keep it simple. The three golden goddesses happened to look back at their creation and seen it had fractured in three directions. So, they came back and woven the three branches into a single timeline again.
All similar things blended together and / or became legends. Everything that was different became broken down into energy which not even the goddesses could destroy. So, they used it to make Zonie and that's why they are both technical and magical.
Timeline theories were fun until Hyrule historia made my least favorite theory official and even worse made a game over the third timeline wtf. But the concept that botw is so far in the future that all timelines converted was genius imho.
Why would the timelines need to converge? Zelda's basically a multiverse and that offers Nintendo tons of creative freedom. Does that mean that there's now three different Ganon/Ganondorf's running around? Honestly trying to merge the timelines just makes things more confusing since now we have a Hyrule that's been flooded, invaded by Twilight/aliens and experienced a golden age all at the same time.
Personally, I prefer to believe that Zelda traveling into the past in Tears of the Kingdom created a fourth timeline, with the Zonai founding Hyrule and that game's version of the Sealing War, hence the ouroboros imagery.
With all this division there is but one thing to do. ANOTHER TEARS OF THE KINGDOM PLAYTHROUGH!!!!
My first game was Breath of the wild, I did not enjoy it so I went back to try older Zelda games, starting with Twilight Princess and it's my favourite Zelda game now.
Playing that game made me realize that one of the major reasons I didn't like Breath of the wild was the lack of story.
Naturally I don't like Tears of the kingdom for the same reason.
Everything splits this fandom. If it weren't for the fact that 99.99% of them have lives beyond gaming, they'd be worse than the Star Wars fandom.
I think the only mainline zelda games I haven't beaten are Adventure of Link and Minish Cap.
I definitely had fun theorizing timeline stuff, but as I have grown older I just kind of realized how silly it all was to work myself into a tizzy about it and honestly I am good no matter where it goes
I love both games. I loved the terminator feel of breath of the wild. The craft and ride style of TOTK. It’s essentially a puzzle game with other elements. Very entertaining. Nothing deters me from returning to past games. I just finished Zelda 2 a few weeks ago. Love this franchise
I’m a newer Zelda player and was fine with them ignoring lore and continuity; but I didn’t understand the point of all the Easter eggs and references that very clearly are fan-service. If you are going to not continue things; don’t build half-baked references to them in the names of the towns and locations. There are a ton of places, items, and other things that look like they should have more information or history but are just there and are never explained. Even character names; it makes sense for people to be named Zelda and Link across time; but if you are trying to make new universes; reusing names like Rauru feels very lazy.
I love modern zelda and would love even more if it had big dungeons.
On the other hand I dont care about story, zelda was never about story. Miyamoto has made it clear that story is a second class citizen to him. Gameplay first and foremost
Yet Zelda had a story and rather complex at that considering the worldbuilding and mysteries they have given us. Besides Miyamoto has no fuckin clue what he's saying. He honestly doesn't even know why Zelda became so popular, this tells you all you need to know about his credibility when it comes to fan feeback.
@@dice5709 I have never read any interview where miyamoto said that he doesnt understand zeldas appeal is it true?
my only complaint about totk story consistency wise was the sages, i wish i had miphas grace lol, shes like ruto reincarnate. all the other sages suck besides riju and mineru
What about Tulin?
@@Fiucha8893 especially fuck tulin, his ability was cool, but I thought that little shit was a girl until the dialogue said he
I'm fine with the timeline being abandoned. I never put much stock in it to begin with aside from VERY blatant references like Wind Waker's connection to Ocarina. I'm just not a fan of the way the two recent games handle their own stories. They feel less like a hero's journey or coming of age, and more just an excuse to explore the sandbox. Link is somehow even less expressive now than he was in the N64 days. The idea of self-inserting is at odds with the fact that you can't even name him anymore, so just make him an actual character now.
One example to get into TOTK spoilers is the ending.
Zelda being changed back from a dragon doesn't bother me on its own. It's just how quick and clean it is, as if the game's saying "Alright, we need to wrap this up now." There's no earning that since "find Zelda" has to be the very last thing you do.
It saddens me that Nintendo is done with "traditional" zeldas but im looking forward to whats to come in the future. echoes of wisdom looks great!
For me the chronology is not a problem, but the previous Zelda always show Link,Zelda, Ganon or Ganondorf and the Triforce. I hate the story of ToTK because it feels too empty. Most of the story happened in the past and what I love of the previous games is that you grow wit the story and the events of the game. I don't care if the futures Zelda are Open World, but they must have more dungeons. In ocarina you spend the most in dungeons, in BotW you spend it exploring and I would love a balance in both. Like a BoTW but with 10 or 12 temples or dungeons.
I did not grow with old zelda games But I understand because I played skyward sword And thought this is great And As for the timeline it is like older games do matter in the lore
to those saying every game divided the fanbase... Sure. But not to this extent. This is something way way way deeper
Honestly TOTK is still the best game. The lore is... ehh. Sure there ppl make theories but again they are theories nothing really true. Least we know Master Sword Fi is still around and i never played Skyward Sword. Every Zelda game has complained over and over again when released. Few years forward alot of people will go back to Tears of the Kingdom again. I can't complain. It's such a god worthy game
totk isnt even top 5, neither is botw
@@dablindscooter1973 tell me what top 5 cuz i know it aint a mobile game brawl stars 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@SuleX00123 indeed
I never believed that the Zelda timeline was ever a thing. To the point where i found it cringe when i heard that was a thing in 2011. If anything we should be discussing what will happen to the gameplay from now on. Since i'm pretty much dropping out if they continue the Breath of the Wild gameplay.
Aspects of the Zelda timeline existed as far back as Ocarina of Time. Ocarina was originally created to serve as an origin story for Ganon, the series main villain and thus a prequel to A Link to the Past and Zelda 1 & 2. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both have characters from Ocarina of Time; Wind Waker has the Deku Tree Sprout, now a tree and Twilight Princess has the Skull Kid and OoT Link as a ghost. It's clear that the games had some sort of connection before the timeline was revealed but it was never clear how the classic games co-existed with Wind Waker and Twilight Princess until then.
@@metaltornado3457 The traces started in Link to the Past. The problem was that Hyrule fucking flooded and when Twilight Princess came around someone at Nintendo realized that physics exist.
Nice video, though I think you are a bit too apologetic of Capitalism and corporations.
I think the overall timeline that connects all the games is pretty bad. The individual timelines tho?
Games like oot/ww/tp or alttp/oracles/albw connect very well, connecting four swords adventures to alttp is fun, connecting oot to alttp is a nightmare because it obviously wasn't planned (even with the whole third timeline it doesn't work), at some point it was going to be a prequel but they gave up and just based it around alttp's past.
Just like oot started a new kind of Zelda games and reseted the story, botw did the same in my opinion.
So in my opinion the timeline should be more like:
1. MC-->FS-->FSA-->ALTTP-->LA/OOX-->ALBW
|--->MM-->TP
2. SS-->OOT |-->WW-->PH-->ST
3. SS(maybe)--> BOTW--> TOTK
I'm of the camp that marks Breath of the Wild as being the end of 1986-2016 Zelda and have lost almost all interest in future Zelda titles, with Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom being strikes one and two. Another open world title that throws out 1986-2016 beyond meaningless location name references would be strike three for me. Some might call it extreme, but that's just how much I loved the first thirty years of Zelda and how much I hate what's become of it.
I can't really say that I hate or highly dislike TOTK, I do think it's a good game, along with BOTW, however what it did for the series with its success convincing the developers to fully stray away with lore, timeline, and continuity along with more shrines & many unsatisfactory side quests over detailed (and more) dungeons, that's what gets me upset to a very high amount.
@@SkyLinkTheory I do agree, and I'm not saying that either is a bad game; I would simply like to ask Nintendo why brand new, open world, radically different lore Zelda has to completely replace and erase previous Zelda. Why can't we have both?
@@BirdieSenpaiTotally agree!!! What if BOTW became its own IP or Zelda Spin-off? Or vice versa- what if Traditional Zelda became a spin-off where you play as Sheik or something?!?
@@SkyLinkTheory This! So much thus! I don't hate BotW and TotK existing, nor do I hate Nintendo for making them; I just hate that we're in a one-or-the-other situation with seemingly no chance for traditional Zelda.
I understand Steve Perry now: When Journey was discussing going on without him, he told Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain to do what they liked; just don't call it Journey. They called it Journey even though it's not Journey without him. I feel like Nintendo has done the same with Zelda.
Doctor Who? Anyone 😂
So business as usual.
Great video man! I hope the devs really hear us out and give us freedom but still a strong story in the future! Also really good comparison you made with Star Wars.
Thanks man! It all came from negative feedback from our discussions and the discussions of others on honest TOTK opinions!!! Who knows maybe this conversation might continue to evolve….
You know what BotW and TotK’s problem is? They’ve lost the important parts of what made Zelda, _Zelda._ Things such as linear-progressing stories, intricate and well-crafted dungeons, and evolving gameplay loops - all of which can absolutely be done in an open-world setting. It’s all been sacrificed in an attempt to change Zelda from a fantasy adventure game into a sandbox - and they fail even at that.
Newer “fans” who don’t care for the older games will _never_ understand what Zelda truly is.
Nahh…Nobody care about Old zelda games now 🤣
@@Mr.Chimpazee _You_ don’t care. Everyone else does.
The newer games are as Zelda as the old ones. Your comment is basically "not a good Zelda game" with more words.
@@Fiucha8893 They are very much _not_ like the older Zelda games.
@@chris_wizzudz Yeah, but they're still Zelda at their core.
People with no personality be like :
People are stupid in ways previously unimaginable. It is now the popular opinion that tears of the kingdom is not only not as good as “everyone” says it is, but that it’s outright bad. This is objectively wrong. That’s right, an opinion so bad it can be factually proven wrong. The game is an improvement in every way on breath of the wild, basically invalidating it. If you even somewhat liked breath of the wild, you objectively cannot say the game is bad. It has just 2 actual flaws, that are not nitpicks like having to spend 1% of the game in menus. The hoverbike and the sages definitely could have been fixed, and that is literally it. This game is the closest any game has gotten to objective perfection, and the arrogance combined with idiocy of its haters is absolutely staggering. Fight me.
The only thing “objective” here is how objectively pathetic and immature this take is. Grow up.
Oh, the narcissism and hypocrisy in this post is astounding. You're acting like a little kid throwing a temper tantrums because she isn't getting her way. You're well within your right to prefer Tears of the Kingdom - your experience was your own and no one can take that away from you, but that doesn't make your opinion objective fact.
I'm in the camp that despised Tears of the Kingdom because how much of a slog it eventually felt. Through all Breath of the Wild's flaws, and it has a lot of them in fairness, I never once burnt out and felt fed up with the game like I do with Tears of the Kingdom. Part of the reason for that feeling is down to Tears of the Kingdom feeling the need to bloat out the game with monotonous and dry side content that felt unrewarding to discover.
I don't want to explore the bland Depths if all I'm getting for my troubles are recycled amiibo armor sets from Breath of the Wild. It's completely soul-draining. TOTK also doubled and tripled down on Breath of the Wild's repetition, making more pointless shrines to discover.
The time spent padding out the game could've been better used designing better Sky Islands and areas of the Depths, because as it stands, in my opinion, both new areas are incredibly underwhelming.
@@BubblesChika “Well you see I didn’t like it because I actually didn’t like it, and you’re acting like an arrogant child throwing a temper tantrum”
-bubbleschika 2024
@@minecrafter3448 Anddddd you've proven my point that you're an narcissistic and immature child. Everyone else is wrong because the world revolves around you as you are the main character apparently. Take care, kid
@@minecrafter3448 You've proven my point about your immaturity and narcissism. You can't handle difference in opinions because you think the world revolves around you.