Mockery: Oh master I love you but I hate all you stand for, but I think we should press our slimy mucas- coverd lips together in the cargo hold. Rand to Surik.
Atton being able to get up as long as one other party member is alive was a godsend on the Sith temple on Duxn mission when I played it back in the day.
I despised Atton as a 12 year old playing this a long time ago in a town far far away playing this for the first time so I neglected him. I don't think I ever got him to be a jedi and I never got anything interesting out of him dialogue-wise. I remember him being cagey about where he learned how to fight and I kept trying to keep him and Kreia from killing eachother and that's it. I far preferred other party members, even the little boopity astromech droid just because he was cute and I liked using him to cruise around.
@@100StarWars you do know that it was literally made by the same people who made the game, right? It's not like a fan made the restored content mod with their interpretation of the game's story. The mod is a compilation of OFFICIAL content made by the creators of the game that was omitted from the game because of time constraints.
@@awesome7732 We can't be sure that all of the content was cut because of time constraints. Content does get cut for other reasons. Personally I feel a couple of the things that mod adds back in detract a little from scenes that didn't need them.
@@DatScot I'd argue that anything the mod adds that feels incomplete or awkward is because the content that would make those scenes smooth was never created in the first place. The mod doesn't fully restore every scene. Some scenes were only ever partially-constructed in the first place. The mod isn't going to create new content out of thin air that will make the restored scene feel finished, which is part of the problem of cut content.
I remember in the beginning, I thought of Atton as a second rate Carth. But after revisiting the game last year and being able to immerse myself in his story once more as a man instead of a kid. I take back everything I ever said. Beautiful story..
I too thought he was a Carth replacement. My cool older cousin hated Carth so I hated Carth too. Now he's... ok. "Ugh. Fuckin Carth. What a stupid name" "Yeah! I hate Carth too! He's stupid! R.. right?" "Yeah buddy. Carth is stupid." "Yeah!" :]
Atton is my very favorite. Kotor 2 is my very favorite game of all time. There will never be any better than Kotor 2. I absolutely love everything you do : )
You know Atton was right. A jedi helps nobody by just standing there watching seeing people die and worlds burn around him, even if the real threat was hidden a jedi has a duty to help those in need. If a jedi denies help is he still a jedi?
The rest however we were not. I always imagined that the events of KOTOR had a massive effect, and was the reason why the Jedi got so involved in the Clone Wars!
100% Star Wars no, the clone wars is 3954 years after the mandalorians wars, and the Jedi order will get involved in many conflicts until there. The great galactic war, galactic war, Darth desolous's insurgence, the new sith Wars until ruusan campagn. Please could you do an episode about the JEDI LORDS during the republic dark age especially Lord Hoth? Please
Oh definitely. What I mean is, that I think that Mandalorian War specifically is why the Jedi Councils of future wars choose to get involved. Not that The Clone War Jedi Council gets involved directly because of the KOTOR Jedi Council. I used TCW as a direct reference as it's the most commonly known :D
Atton Rand, loyal and amazing soldier, master assassin, and a realistic person in the Star Wars lore. He was smart to change his name, and instead pick up a victims name. Kriea considered him a fool for choosing to hide his strength wisely, to avoid being expected to follow the Jedi or die like Revan ran off and no doubt did. He had so much potential.
Thank you for heavily centering your channel on Kotor 2, possibly the best form of Star Wars to even rival the Original Trilogy. Please keep doing these character analysis's on these underrated characters!!
And thank you for supporting me :) Of course this is a channel for all of Star Wars, but KOTOR is my lifeblood and my biggest passion in Star Wars. I have a priority on KOTOR because it's where my Star Wars knowledge is strongest. I intend to do video's for all of the main characters in the near future! :D
A beautiful depiction of Atton Rand's story and look into his character. I still haven't played the restored content mod, and I'm feeling for a full play-through after watching your vid. They always give me the goosebumps man!
100% Star Wars yeah :D i like kotor 1,2 more than swtor and i cant believe how intensive tor bashed kotor 2... :( Why did LucasArts Stop the production? They should have made 5 kotor games more :( there are so many unanswered questions from 2 and i was very exited for part 3 but that game never came 👿 LUCASARTS WHY????
Personally, I feel the cut content should be considered what really happened in the game. Lucas Arts rushing the game out seems like a crappy reason to not acknowledge the wrest of the story...but thats just me. Regardless, you make really good content and i enjoy it a lot. Keep up the good work
Thank you! I personally see it more along the lines of, if they did get the budget and time to finish it properly, how would the story have changed? Initially, every character's story was to be wrapped at the end of the game, rather than alluded to by Kreia. And the cut content doesn't necessarily represent what was going to happen, as a lot of it was placeholder content and unfinished content. There was a lot more planned for so many characters (I have spoken with Mr Avellone, the lead designer about this) and how there was to be so much more in general. So, I never truly really felt that the cut content (or the files found within the game) were representative of the true conclusions of any character. The Restored content mod, does a lot to fundamentally make the story and game better and more detailed, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it would've been how the 'true' final product looked like. It's like the movies, do you consider all of the deleted scenes canon to the story? I kind of see it the same way, sometimes maybe, sometimes not. I chose to keep it how the world knows it, rather than adding bits and pieces that may or may not have been in the known canonical story. Anyway, thank you for the kinds words, it means a lot!
Alright lol that was very well put and i totally see your side. I love the lore of starwars but ive always found the hardly touched stories had the most depth and intrigue to me. But yeah you're right to leave it to how the world knows it. I am glad that you referenced the cut content though, it really deserves some light. You explained your side very well and i agree with it. But im still going to look at that cut content as a piece of juicy lore ;)
100% Star Wars This is kinda off-topic of the original comment but I can't really add anything to this discussion. Because the ending of kotor 2 and the continuation of it are held pretty vague (originally) and are not at all finished, I think you have to interpret these and the cut scenes for yourself anyway. My original question was: you really did meet Chris Avellone and you talked about the game? I can't remember it being mentioned in any video. This is really interesting. Will you open up about the information he gave you concerning story, further scenes, etc. anytime? I'm sorry if you answered this somewhere already but I would really like to know❤
I haven't met him in person, but I have him as a friend on Facebook and we had a chat about KOTOR 2 :) I'd like to go into a lot more detail with him at some point, but he's a very busy guy! (and he's recently gotten married!)
@@darthportus I can list the amount of characters that the MMO and the stupid Revan novel ruined. Revan:ruined his motivations and made him to have been brainwashed rather than he himself choosing to become a Sith Lord to save the Galaxy. Made him a madman and brought him to a pointless expansion taking advantage of the love people had(s) for KOTOR as a cashgrab. Everything mentioned in KOTOR 2(him being a brilliant tactician, a machiavellic mind that used an entire war ala Palpatine to create an army) was ignored. Instead, we got a fool that made as much problems as he solved. The Exile(I will not call him/her by the stupid name Drew Karpshyn gave): made him/her a woman that is pretty much a fangirl of Revan, completely ignoring the "wound in the force" plot or Kreia's teachings, aswell as the confidence and knowledge he/she gained through the entire quest of KOTOR 2 to be her/his own individual and a being at Revan's peer(as Kreia wanted to train one as great as Revan). And the character itself behaving nothing like it did in KOTOR 2(all choices included). Kreia: She mentioned a war of belief and shadows, of beings that could shape the entire galaxy at will. Instead, we got the Empire 2.0, aswell as a force ghost apparition that Bioware hinted it to be Kreia and who was nothing like her. Bastila: reduced to a woman that lives her life wondering where Revan is, getting old and sad, while KOTOR Bastila would have gone after him to know what happened. While Canderous remained badass in the novel, the Mandalorian assistance that was hinted at KOTOR 2 against the oncoming threat(similar to ME3)went nowhere and the Mandalorians are pretty much nothing on the war of TOR. Not a word of Atton nor any of the Exile's companions, even though they pretty much were the last Jedi since there were 20 or less Jedi by then(point that TOR seems to like forgetting) HK: reduced to bossfights(which absolutely 0% of fans wanted). Basically, KOTOR 2 hinted at amazing things(check Chris Avellone's "what would have KOTOR 3 been like" interview to see what I mean) that never came to be.
I don't know why but I absolutely love Atton. Not only is he a total badass Jedi Hunter turned badass Jedi Sentinel and one of the founding members of the rebuilt Jedi Order, but his character arc is such a cool subversion on the typical "Scoundrel" trope. First you think he's just a Han Solo ripoff, but then you realize that entire schtick is just a ploy that he innately throws up so that he can hunt down Jedi more efficiently, to the point where he lost sight of his true personality in the process. Such a cool concept, God I wish they explored his character further, such a shame
_After Malachor, after the Mandalorian Wars, that's when the Sith teachings started spreading through the ranks. We knew where our loyalties lay - to the Jedi who came to help us, not the ones who sat back on Dantooine and Coruscant, watching us die._
Man, i just found these videos after a recent playthrough of Kotor II. ive probably played fully through 3 times or so, and finally hearing ALL the backstory of each character revealed is so unbelievably satisfying. Thanks so much for making these videos, they are truly excellent.
Correction Arron rand wasn't meant to be. In the final game but he was created last minute blame his agent he was actually slated for a spin off to Jedi knight but he doesn't want to talk about what happened *there*
I just play the game again, and find this video again he my second favorite character in the game beside the character exile/ Meetra Surik but NOW THEY NEED MEETRA AND ATTON LOVE STORY I FREAKING SHIP THEM! I want them to make Jedi babies.
100% Star Wars i wish you can have a choice of having the Handmaiden or Mical that would be much better i like Mical better then Go-to i wish you can switch Handmaiden with go-to if female
Cut Content: If the player is dark-sided and she has more influence on Mical(The Disciple) than Atton. Then Kreia will use atton jealously join the dark side and to fight Mical.
Attons distrust of droids comes from the fact that one of the original members of his group was an assassin droid that was planted there by the Jedi. Atton noticed a year after the group was formed that the droid never actually killed any of the Jedi they had captured. Atton set it up to where the droid would have to kill a Jedi or be destroyed by the Jedi. The droid hesitated and was destroyed. Atton recovered the droids core and memory banks and found out the droid had been feeding the Jedi Order information about their Jedi hunting group and Reven. The female Jedi that recognized Atton as force sensitive was sent to encounter Atton by the Jedi councel as a way of swaying him towards the light. You can only see this part of the conversation if your play a male exile.
Atton is bae. I'm lesbian as hell, but Atton will always be bae. There's just this adorable puppy aspect to his character, the way his affection towards Meetra shows. He's just way too cute. And I always have and always will enjoy his cute little growls towards Disciple. ">:I I liked her first >:I Go away >:I I'll fite you >:I"
Atton is my favorite character on kotor 2 and the reason that I will always start off on nar shadaa. Listening to kreia threaten him in telos and hearing his story unfold on narshadaa was possibly the most interesting story of the game for me.
god dammit now I feel like an asshole for treating rand like dirt during my sith playthrough of KOTOR2, now I need to go do a jedi playthrough to right these wrongs.
Technically speaking the restored content mod is more of the intended story than the release as so much was cut because they were forced to meet a time restriction.
This question is a little hard to answer as it's a bit murky. I see it happening this way: The Ebon hawk was attacked in open space by a Sith Vessel, leading to the distress call that calls in the Harbinger (whether that was T3 or the Sith I don't know). It's likely that Kreia was already aboard the Harbinger at this point looking for the Exile. The Harbinger picks up the Ebon Hawk, and the stealthed Sith who were aboard the Hawk, slowly take over the Harbinger. When Sion awakes, a battle ensues, and a HK-50 droid drugs Meetra, and hides her on the Harbinger while he looks for an escape. It's at this point, that Kreia finds Meetra and takes her to the Hawk, saving her life (presumably creating the bond) but get's into a fight with the HK-50, and she is forced into locking him into the Cargo Hold. She then slips into the hibernation trance (plays dead) to trick the HK-50 droid when it gets out. T3 then repairs the Hawk slightly with another droid (3C-FD) and jumps to the closest place that he could, Peragus. I hope that helps a little.
As much as I love kotor 1 the lack of a Han Solo like character in that game was sorely lacking I remember playing kotor 2 for the first time and as soon as I encountered Atton I was like yes!
I've always been a little curious, but why exactly does SWTOR ignore Kotor 2 so much? Did the dev team for SWTOR think of it less simply because of it's rushed development?
@@BobbyTheWallflower It's incredibly stupid. It seems likely that Kotor is going to be brought into the new canon soon, so I'm hoping they'll remake the games, ignore SWTOR, and then make Kotor 3.
@@keetongu445 In this day and age even if it was made, i fear it would be nothing more then a disappointment. So much so id rather let the MMO storyline remain the cannon.
100% Star Wars keep at it! I’m just redoing these games again! I have to say I love them both but I still feel kotor2 left me feeling incomplete with the ending! I wanted kotor3 and we got old republic... not a fan! We want revan and we want kotor3
That's the issue with KOTOR 2, it was mean't to make you feel like that and because they couldn't wrap up all of the character's stories in the development time, they needed to make it one giant cliff hanger, giving mere hints to what happens (kreia's fortune telling) Sadly, it was a cliff hanger that never found any real resolution, as SWTOR kind of shoved it aside.
I personally find Atton mechanically wise to be the strongest of party members, aside from Exile. Full-on sneak attack, full apr easily makes him the most destructive of all companions.
Isn't it implied that Bao Dur died helping HK47 reach the HK factory on Telos? Otherwise why isn't he on Malachor 5 with the rest of the crew? In particular his remote plays back a recorded message of him giving instructions to use the mass shadow generator to destroy the planet; if Bao Dur was able to help setup the new Jedi order then there would be no need as Bao Dur could have done the deed himself. So I don't get how he is able to help Atton and the rest of Surik's companions to set up a new Jedi order if he is never shown on the planet, nor shown travelling to the planet?
It's left vague intentionally, with no official confirmation. Even Kreia leaves his fate vague. However, one could assume he was simply left unconscious for a time on the Ebon Hawk (after all someone had to repair it when it crashed) and his remote was always programmed to reactivate the Mass Shadow generator, after all, why would he choose to kill himself in the process when he could trust his droid to do it? And then there's the fact he can be trained as a Jedi, and Meetra's companions were considered to be the 'Lost Jedi', leading one to assume he went on to be one of these lost Jedi in a way. A lot of the game was set up for a sequel sadly, and many things were left intentionally vague. So we'll never get a true definitive answer. It's very subjective, however, I think given the evidence, it's safe to say he survived and joined the Jedi order 😀
@@100StarWars Didn't Chris Avellone confirm that Bao Dur would sacrifice himself on Telos? If he would still be alive at Malachor V, he would either help the party against Kreia(they were all gonna attack her, so why exclude him?)or he would give the orders to the remote himself instead of it seeing a previous recording.
I agree, but her getting the chance to progress lore-wise is what we all hope for, for our favorite video game characters. I just wish she didnt receive such a lazy write off in ToR. Some would say that just kind of goes along with the Tragedy of Darth Revan, which i do think all in all is a tragic tale
Dantooine ideally should be planet 2 after Telos and Nar Shadaa 3, to get your personal crystal, to get your lightsaber and some power crystals on an easy planet, to get Visas and Disciple who are both more powerful than Atton. Disciple is the best choice to board Goto's yacht-especially if already made a Jedi and has a lightsaber, to come with you on Dxun and Korriban, and join Visas to attack Freedon Nadd's tomb.
@theia1653 But now thanks to the lightsabers on Peragus mod and the workbench trick, you can get several lightsabers early on. By planet 2, I meant after Dantooine. I number based on after getting off Telos.
I can see that and I’d agree if his goal was simply conquer and rule the republic. His motives were good to replace the republic and give it the direction and strength under his leadership to defend against an invasion from the sith empire in the unknown regions. To spare it’s inhabitants from enslavement or outright extermination by the true sith and committing some evil to prevent a greater one seems chaotic good. I suppose it all boils down to if you see reven as evil or not. I appreciate your perspective, it’s been thought provoking.
Well, you have to understand, Revan's motive was still dominion and power, regardless of the intent to do 'good' in this context. He wanted to reinvent the Sith and the Republic under his empire. Did good come of that ideology? Yes. Was there mass death and destruction too? Yes. Which would mean Neutral Evil fits him more than anything. There is no good and evil, simply power and success. This is of course if you follow the canonical story including SWTOR etc. the non canonical view that KOTOR 2 tried to set up was Revan's sacrifice of himself to the dark side for the benefit of others... Which would be more like a Lawful Evil alignment.
Well said. I still think that chaotic good is the best definition, however I see that it’s from my bias in that I sympathize with revan’s goals and feel the republic would be better off. Seeing that the ends justify the means, thus chaotic good. Looking at it as objectively as I can, I see that lawful evil is probably a better fit, from the prospect of a historical/lore point of view. I can’t speak to swtor lore, so I’ll differ to your points. Thanks you, again. As a big fan of kotor, I appreciate the insight.
So confused. Never met the disciple and never knew atton was Force sensitive. Also I played as a male character. Why is there all this canon with Meetra Surik when you create your own character in game!?
Just like they felt they had to create canonical Revan and thus a vanon path for KOTOR because of TOR, they felt they had to do the same for KOTOR 2. Imho it's a mistake. Neither KOTOR 1 nor 2 should have a canonical path, your playthrough should be your canon.
No way. She was hard to defeat even for the Exile, the strongest Jedi of the group, and Atton is essentially a padawan. Maybe if he ambushed her and gets very lucky. Mical and Mandalore are stronger than him as a fighter, and Mandalore had the balls to take on Nihilus. Traya could kill several Jedi masters with a wave of her hand.
@@100StarWars I ment could you imagine that Atton could become strong enough in his later jedi career to mess with her/ beat her? Because he was a very important person for rebuilding the jedi order, so in my opinion and my imaginations he became much more powerful and Kreia said that too
Is it possible, even vaguely, that Atton - who killed a Jedi woman - actually murdered the Handmaidens mother? It would explain his immense dislike of her if he recognized her face.
100% Star Wars hey I was wondering if you would do a story on what happened to the ebon hawk leading up to its sad destruction above taris I just started playing the mmo swtor and this is also off topic but do you do any other videos other than star wars probably a stupid question hence your name lol
No, Star Wars only here :D And what do you mean its destruction above Taris? I have an Ebon Hawk Origin video here! - ruclips.net/video/lanBGUXiZzQ/видео.html
The only thing that I don't like about Atton is that he is a blaster-wielding scoundrel with 10 intelligence and lots of dexterity. His class gives him a ton of skills, but his intelligence does not do him justice. Also, using blasters requires a ton of feats, like two-handed weapons, close combat, precise shot and rapid shot. Character wise he is great, but structurally he does not make any sense.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Opinionated Response: Ahh Atton What a wonderful Meat Bag he was very fond of my Master.
Interjection: Surik was not our master, she was a simple meatbag that our *true* master was fond of.
Statement: Atton wants to press his mucous covered lips on our current Master. Just like with Bastila and our original Master.
HK 47 this has made my day.
Oh man this was awesome, totally read it in his voice.
Mockery: Oh master I love you but I hate all you stand for, but I think we should press our slimy mucas- coverd lips together in the cargo hold. Rand to Surik.
Atton being able to get up as long as one other party member is alive was a godsend on the Sith temple on Duxn mission when I played it back in the day.
I just went through this exact struggle recently. Atton saved us. Damn that tomb still took like 2 hrs.
I despised Atton as a 12 year old playing this a long time ago in a town far far away playing this for the first time so I neglected him. I don't think I ever got him to be a jedi and I never got anything interesting out of him dialogue-wise. I remember him being cagey about where he learned how to fight and I kept trying to keep him and Kreia from killing eachother and that's it. I far preferred other party members, even the little boopity astromech droid just because he was cute and I liked using him to cruise around.
Son,the restored content mod is more canon than the released game ever was
To us maybe ;)
Say" thank you" to Fergus.He cut content in a first place.Chris Avelone is still angry at him because of this and other decisions.
@@100StarWars you do know that it was literally made by the same people who made the game, right? It's not like a fan made the restored content mod with their interpretation of the game's story. The mod is a compilation of OFFICIAL content made by the creators of the game that was omitted from the game because of time constraints.
@@awesome7732 We can't be sure that all of the content was cut because of time constraints. Content does get cut for other reasons. Personally I feel a couple of the things that mod adds back in detract a little from scenes that didn't need them.
@@DatScot I'd argue that anything the mod adds that feels incomplete or awkward is because the content that would make those scenes smooth was never created in the first place. The mod doesn't fully restore every scene. Some scenes were only ever partially-constructed in the first place. The mod isn't going to create new content out of thin air that will make the restored scene feel finished, which is part of the problem of cut content.
“Atton is as always a fool, and the Force watches out for one such as him.”
-Kreia
", as it does for the old, such as I."
Atton is as Atton as Atton will ever be!
A fool
@@idontknow2480 Shutta.
@@nick0875 fat one.
@@idontknow2480 “and the force watches out for ones such as him as it does for the old such as I.”
I remember in the beginning, I thought of Atton as a second rate Carth. But after revisiting the game last year and being able to immerse myself in his story once more as a man instead of a kid. I take back everything I ever said. Beautiful story..
A young mind cannot really comprehend the complexity of such a story. It's only as we grow as people, does it begin to make more sense :)
He's better than Carth. Carth is a little shit but Atton. Atton has a much better back story
I too thought he was a Carth replacement. My cool older cousin hated Carth so I hated Carth too. Now he's... ok.
"Ugh. Fuckin Carth. What a stupid name"
"Yeah! I hate Carth too! He's stupid! R.. right?"
"Yeah buddy. Carth is stupid."
"Yeah!" :]
True but Carth IS useful with Starkillers Blaster and his own completely modded.
Atton >>>>> Carth
Kotor 2...True masterpiece.
Completely!
The Old Republic era is better than all of the movie trilogy’s combined
It was amazing but falls short of masterpiece because it wasnt finished but other than that it was perfect.
Bittersweet. So deep. I love it 💜
Except that incomplete cliffhanger ending.
Atton is my very favorite. Kotor 2 is my very favorite game of all time. There will never be any better than Kotor 2. I absolutely love everything you do : )
I really appreciate that, thank you!
You know Atton was right. A jedi helps nobody by just standing there watching seeing people die and worlds burn around him, even if the real threat was hidden a jedi has a duty to help those in need. If a jedi denies help is he still a jedi?
He was certainly right about the Jedi High Council in KOTOR.
Masters Vandar Tokare, Dorak and Zhar weren't like the others, they were wise and compasionate.
The rest however we were not. I always imagined that the events of KOTOR had a massive effect, and was the reason why the Jedi got so involved in the Clone Wars!
100% Star Wars no, the clone wars is 3954 years after the mandalorians wars, and the Jedi order will get involved in many conflicts until there. The great galactic war, galactic war, Darth desolous's insurgence, the new sith Wars until ruusan campagn. Please could you do an episode about the JEDI LORDS during the republic dark age especially Lord Hoth? Please
Oh definitely. What I mean is, that I think that Mandalorian War specifically is why the Jedi Councils of future wars choose to get involved. Not that The Clone War Jedi Council gets involved directly because of the KOTOR Jedi Council. I used TCW as a direct reference as it's the most commonly known :D
Atton is a great example of subverting expectations and his rant on the jedi made me realize the jedi are just as flawed as everyone else.
They really are.
I really did not see that dark history of his comming. I thought he was the typical han solo smuggler type. Was very pleased to be wrong
That's why I loved Luke's Jedi order so much more. Not perfect but closer to ideal.
I beg to differ. With a 6th sense ability it is ones goal to be better then animals. It all starts with stating that moral is not subjective.
Atton Rand, loyal and amazing soldier, master assassin, and a realistic person in the Star Wars lore. He was smart to change his name, and instead pick up a victims name. Kriea considered him a fool for choosing to hide his strength wisely, to avoid being expected to follow the Jedi or die like Revan ran off and no doubt did. He had so much potential.
Thank you for heavily centering your channel on Kotor 2, possibly the best form of Star Wars to even rival the Original Trilogy. Please keep doing these character analysis's on these underrated characters!!
And thank you for supporting me :) Of course this is a channel for all of Star Wars, but KOTOR is my lifeblood and my biggest passion in Star Wars. I have a priority on KOTOR because it's where my Star Wars knowledge is strongest. I intend to do video's for all of the main characters in the near future! :D
A beautiful depiction of Atton Rand's story and look into his character. I still haven't played the restored content mod, and I'm feeling for a full play-through after watching your vid. They always give me the goosebumps man!
Search your feelings, give up with Tekken, play KOTOR :D
Atton is one of my favourite Star wars characters
He's one of my favorite smugglers ;)
100% Star Wars agreed i wish there will come a Kotor 3... Kotor 2 was awesome!!!! And atton becoming Jedi is badass
We're all praying for a Kotor 3 :)
100% Star Wars yeah :D i like kotor 1,2 more than swtor and i cant believe how intensive tor bashed kotor 2... :( Why did LucasArts Stop the production? They should have made 5 kotor games more :( there are so many unanswered questions from 2 and i was very exited for part 3 but that game never came 👿 LUCASARTS WHY????
Budgetary constraints
Personally, I feel the cut content should be considered what really happened in the game. Lucas Arts rushing the game out seems like a crappy reason to not acknowledge the wrest of the story...but thats just me. Regardless, you make really good content and i enjoy it a lot. Keep up the good work
Thank you! I personally see it more along the lines of, if they did get the budget and time to finish it properly, how would the story have changed? Initially, every character's story was to be wrapped at the end of the game, rather than alluded to by Kreia. And the cut content doesn't necessarily represent what was going to happen, as a lot of it was placeholder content and unfinished content.
There was a lot more planned for so many characters (I have spoken with Mr Avellone, the lead designer about this) and how there was to be so much more in general. So, I never truly really felt that the cut content (or the files found within the game) were representative of the true conclusions of any character. The Restored content mod, does a lot to fundamentally make the story and game better and more detailed, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it would've been how the 'true' final product looked like.
It's like the movies, do you consider all of the deleted scenes canon to the story? I kind of see it the same way, sometimes maybe, sometimes not. I chose to keep it how the world knows it, rather than adding bits and pieces that may or may not have been in the known canonical story.
Anyway, thank you for the kinds words, it means a lot!
Alright lol that was very well put and i totally see your side. I love the lore of starwars but ive always found the hardly touched stories had the most depth and intrigue to me. But yeah you're right to leave it to how the world knows it. I am glad that you referenced the cut content though, it really deserves some light. You explained your side very well and i agree with it. But im still going to look at that cut content as a piece of juicy lore ;)
Oh don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the cut content too! That's why I didn't want to disregard it completely.
100% Star Wars This is kinda off-topic of the original comment but I can't really add anything to this discussion. Because the ending of kotor 2 and the continuation of it are held pretty vague (originally) and are not at all finished, I think you have to interpret these and the cut scenes for yourself anyway.
My original question was: you really did meet Chris Avellone and you talked about the game? I can't remember it being mentioned in any video. This is really interesting.
Will you open up about the information he gave you concerning story, further scenes, etc. anytime? I'm sorry if you answered this somewhere already but I would really like to know❤
I haven't met him in person, but I have him as a friend on Facebook and we had a chat about KOTOR 2 :) I'd like to go into a lot more detail with him at some point, but he's a very busy guy! (and he's recently gotten married!)
Long answer : the video
Short answer : "He is nothing but a fool and a murderer" - Kreia
Do one on the Master Troll: Jolee bindo
He's on the list!
Too bad Atton Rand was not mentioned in the MMO. Only to serve as an constume.
SWTOR really does its best to distance itself from anything KOTOR 2 related sadly.
Sarada Uchiha swtor ruined alot of charecters
@@maleexile9053 In your opinion
@@darthportus its a lot of peoples opinion, trust me lmfao
@@darthportus
I can list the amount of characters that the MMO and the stupid Revan novel ruined.
Revan:ruined his motivations and made him to have been brainwashed rather than he himself choosing to become a Sith Lord to save the Galaxy. Made him a madman and brought him to a pointless expansion taking advantage of the love people had(s) for KOTOR as a cashgrab. Everything mentioned in KOTOR 2(him being a brilliant tactician, a machiavellic mind that used an entire war ala Palpatine to create an army) was ignored. Instead, we got a fool that made as much problems as he solved.
The Exile(I will not call him/her by the stupid name Drew Karpshyn gave): made him/her a woman that is pretty much a fangirl of Revan, completely ignoring the "wound in the force" plot or Kreia's teachings, aswell as the confidence and knowledge he/she gained through the entire quest of KOTOR 2 to be her/his own individual and a being at Revan's peer(as Kreia wanted to train one as great as Revan). And the character itself behaving nothing like it did in KOTOR 2(all choices included).
Kreia: She mentioned a war of belief and shadows, of beings that could shape the entire galaxy at will. Instead, we got the Empire 2.0, aswell as a force ghost apparition that Bioware hinted it to be Kreia and who was nothing like her.
Bastila: reduced to a woman that lives her life wondering where Revan is, getting old and sad, while KOTOR Bastila would have gone after him to know what happened.
While Canderous remained badass in the novel, the Mandalorian assistance that was hinted at KOTOR 2 against the oncoming threat(similar to ME3)went nowhere and the Mandalorians are pretty much nothing on the war of TOR.
Not a word of Atton nor any of the Exile's companions, even though they pretty much were the last Jedi since there were 20 or less Jedi by then(point that TOR seems to like forgetting)
HK: reduced to bossfights(which absolutely 0% of fans wanted).
Basically, KOTOR 2 hinted at amazing things(check Chris Avellone's "what would have KOTOR 3 been like" interview to see what I mean) that never came to be.
I don't know why but I absolutely love Atton. Not only is he a total badass Jedi Hunter turned badass Jedi Sentinel and one of the founding members of the rebuilt Jedi Order, but his character arc is such a cool subversion on the typical "Scoundrel" trope. First you think he's just a Han Solo ripoff, but then you realize that entire schtick is just a ploy that he innately throws up so that he can hunt down Jedi more efficiently, to the point where he lost sight of his true personality in the process. Such a cool concept, God I wish they explored his character further, such a shame
_After Malachor, after the Mandalorian Wars, that's when the Sith teachings started spreading through the ranks. We knew where our loyalties lay - to the Jedi who came to help us, not the ones who sat back on Dantooine and Coruscant, watching us die._
Man, i just found these videos after a recent playthrough of Kotor II. ive probably played fully through 3 times or so, and finally hearing ALL the backstory of each character revealed is so unbelievably satisfying. Thanks so much for making these videos, they are truly excellent.
Appreciate it ;)
This dude actually surprised a Sith Lord
Correction
Arron rand wasn't meant to be. In the final game but he was created last minute blame his agent he was actually slated for a spin off to Jedi knight but he doesn't want to talk about what happened *there*
Omg he's my favorite kotor 2 character next to mettra surik!!!!!Your awsome I loved this one!!!!!
Thank you for the kind words as always!! 😊
In the restored content MOD, I actually cried man teers when Atton died
He died for you? My Atton survived and followed me after the final battle.
Hey Im on youtube
Remind me to never tell you the odds.
*p u r e p a z a a k*
Atton Rand YEAH
hello carth, how are you? oh sorry...i just hate both of you equaly….hey...do you have a son?....just curious >.>
You need to tell Meetra don't get stab in the back by Lord Scourge.
"We were loyal to Revan. That was enough."
I just play the game again, and find this video again he my second favorite character in the game beside the character exile/ Meetra Surik but NOW THEY NEED MEETRA AND ATTON LOVE STORY I FREAKING SHIP THEM! I want them to make Jedi babies.
Yeees. I ship them too 🙏
100% Star Wars at first i ship Mical and Meetra or the exile but replaying the game Atton is more funny and i ship them
Ehhh, I never really liked Mical.
100% Star Wars i wish you can have a choice of having the Handmaiden or Mical that would be much better i like Mical better then Go-to i wish you can switch Handmaiden with go-to if female
You can get a mod that allows you to have ALL of the companions regardless of gender
"Go ahead and try! You just might find I'm more than you can handle!"
Cut Content: If the player is dark-sided and she has more influence on Mical(The Disciple) than Atton. Then Kreia will use atton jealously join the dark side and to fight Mical.
Hell yeah! I tried to keep this video within the canonical continuity though!
Jolyne Kujo i think its the same with the male exile to i think you need more influenece with visas and the handmaiden will fight her
"Then you show up in your underwear and everything got better."
(How little he knew)
Hehehehehe
Wish random women would show up to me on their underwear :( but my wife would probably just kill them...
Everybody asks "who" is Atton Rand but nobody asks "how" is Atton Rand
having a basic blaster character in star wars become a jedi is such a good writing concept and obsidian did it great
Attons distrust of droids comes from the fact that one of the original members of his group was an assassin droid that was planted there by the Jedi. Atton noticed a year after the group was formed that the droid never actually killed any of the Jedi they had captured. Atton set it up to where the droid would have to kill a Jedi or be destroyed by the Jedi. The droid hesitated and was destroyed. Atton recovered the droids core and memory banks and found out the droid had been feeding the Jedi Order information about their Jedi hunting group and Reven. The female Jedi that recognized Atton as force sensitive was sent to encounter Atton by the Jedi councel as a way of swaying him towards the light. You can only see this part of the conversation if your play a male exile.
Do you have the source of that or some proof? I've never seen that in my life nor can I find anything about it.
Atton is bae. I'm lesbian as hell, but Atton will always be bae. There's just this adorable puppy aspect to his character, the way his affection towards Meetra shows. He's just way too cute. And I always have and always will enjoy his cute little growls towards Disciple. ">:I I liked her first >:I Go away >:I I'll fite you >:I"
Atton is bae
@@100StarWars Makes me sad that the romance with him was never really completed.
You can always get the romance mod to make it work :D
@@shaelynmartin1996
I think the romance wasn't over because it was meant to carry on the next game (like the Mass Effect series) and we never got it.
PREACH
Oh yeah he was my fav character
One of mine too!
which reminds me I need to replay Kotor II because I just got it on GOG when it went on sale
YES YOU DO!!!
"The Galaxy doesn't need Jedi arrogance and Jedi hypocrisy anymore!"
It would be amazing to know how he and the others created the "new" jedi order 😍😘
If only we got to see that story 🙁
You...i thought you disappeared into the Unknown Regions...
Amazing video. Thank you very much!
I'm glad you enjoyed :)
Atton is my favorite character on kotor 2 and the reason that I will always start off on nar shadaa. Listening to kreia threaten him in telos and hearing his story unfold on narshadaa was possibly the most interesting story of the game for me.
I love Atton! He is highly underappreciated as a character and is without doubt one of the best in the game!
god dammit now I feel like an asshole for treating rand like dirt during my sith playthrough of KOTOR2, now I need to go do a jedi playthrough to right these wrongs.
I did too on my first run XD It's hard to get the truth from him in the game the stubborn fool, so I usually just mugged him off all the time!
Technically speaking the restored content mod is more of the intended story than the release as so much was cut because they were forced to meet a time restriction.
A lot of it was cut because it wasn't relevant or accurate with the plot they were crafting.
I didnt know your other companion aside discilple can become jedi..damn i need to replay this game again
Most of them can ;)
Mira
Disciple
Atton
Bao Dur
The Handmaiden
These are all Jedi-able
You can get everyone on the crew except mandalore and the droids to become a Jedi or a dark jedi
I'd love to see a video of you covering ALL cut content from both games
How did the ebon hawk end up on Peragus, anyway? I never questioned that.
This question is a little hard to answer as it's a bit murky. I see it happening this way:
The Ebon hawk was attacked in open space by a Sith Vessel, leading to the distress call that calls in the Harbinger (whether that was T3 or the Sith I don't know). It's likely that Kreia was already aboard the Harbinger at this point looking for the Exile. The Harbinger picks up the Ebon Hawk, and the stealthed Sith who were aboard the Hawk, slowly take over the Harbinger. When Sion awakes, a battle ensues, and a HK-50 droid drugs Meetra, and hides her on the Harbinger while he looks for an escape. It's at this point, that Kreia finds Meetra and takes her to the Hawk, saving her life (presumably creating the bond) but get's into a fight with the HK-50, and she is forced into locking him into the Cargo Hold. She then slips into the hibernation trance (plays dead) to trick the HK-50 droid when it gets out. T3 then repairs the Hawk slightly with another droid (3C-FD) and jumps to the closest place that he could, Peragus.
I hope that helps a little.
As much as I love kotor 1 the lack of a Han Solo like character in that game was sorely lacking I remember playing kotor 2 for the first time and as soon as I encountered Atton I was like yes!
I mean Mission is kinda like the Han Solo of KOTOR
I've always been a little curious, but why exactly does SWTOR ignore Kotor 2 so much? Did the dev team for SWTOR think of it less simply because of it's rushed development?
I think it's because it didn't line up with their own SW values. K2 was utterly unique and made new strides, and they couldn't keep up with that.
Ah, okay. Thanks for the answer :)
@@BobbyTheWallflower It's incredibly stupid. It seems likely that Kotor is going to be brought into the new canon soon, so I'm hoping they'll remake the games, ignore SWTOR, and then make Kotor 3.
@@keetongu445 I wouldn't hold your breath
Disney is too focused on the skywalker family... and grogu.
@@keetongu445 In this day and age even if it was made, i fear it would be nothing more then a disappointment. So much so id rather let the MMO storyline remain the cannon.
This is ace first video I’ve listened to
I'm really glad you enjoyed it my dude :D
100% Star Wars keep at it! I’m just redoing these games again! I have to say I love them both but I still feel kotor2 left me feeling incomplete with the ending! I wanted kotor3 and we got old republic... not a fan! We want revan and we want kotor3
That's the issue with KOTOR 2, it was mean't to make you feel like that and because they couldn't wrap up all of the character's stories in the development time, they needed to make it one giant cliff hanger, giving mere hints to what happens (kreia's fortune telling) Sadly, it was a cliff hanger that never found any real resolution, as SWTOR kind of shoved it aside.
100% Star Wars yes but you also felt like the chatchers did with revan and the exile leaving .... if you get what I mean
Care to elaborate?
I'm as Atton as Atton will ever be!
Can I get the restored content mod if I use the steam version of the game?
Yes!
It’s super easy since the steam update given now you can use the workshop to download and install
I have a theory that he is the guy that Corta was referring to who was suppose to help him get meetra to nar shadar
If they did a live action version of KOTOR, either Paul Rudd or Chris Pine play Atton
Interesting suggestions!
Chris Pratt
Miles teller
Paul Rudd!!! Fuck yeah!
My favorite companion in any Star Wars game 💯
Please do Carth Onasi. He's the best flyboy.
I will do one day!
Did I say flyboy? I meant fuck boy. XD lol
Why not both?
@@blackroserevan6939 But he doesn't wanna talk about it!
Atton was a pain in the ass to unlock his force abilities. I made him a jedi once but he was too weak for the end game. The lightsaber helped tho.
I personally find Atton mechanically wise to be the strongest of party members, aside from Exile. Full-on sneak attack, full apr easily makes him the most destructive of all companions.
What?!?!?! Exile was actually a woman named Mettra Surik? Sith spit I have a lot of reading to do!
Yeah! I have her complete story like this one on my channel too if you're interested! :D
Atton always the fool...and as always will always remains a fool
Can i ask you something in canon did atton and exile fall in love i mean did she fall in love with him
He had a thing for her but I don't think it was canonically reciprocated!
You should cover all the restored content of the mod and if possible, speculate what else they might have done.
Isn't it implied that Bao Dur died helping HK47 reach the HK factory on Telos? Otherwise why isn't he on Malachor 5 with the rest of the crew? In particular his remote plays back a recorded message of him giving instructions to use the mass shadow generator to destroy the planet; if Bao Dur was able to help setup the new Jedi order then there would be no need as Bao Dur could have done the deed himself. So I don't get how he is able to help Atton and the rest of Surik's companions to set up a new Jedi order if he is never shown on the planet, nor shown travelling to the planet?
It's left vague intentionally, with no official confirmation. Even Kreia leaves his fate vague. However, one could assume he was simply left unconscious for a time on the Ebon Hawk (after all someone had to repair it when it crashed) and his remote was always programmed to reactivate the Mass Shadow generator, after all, why would he choose to kill himself in the process when he could trust his droid to do it? And then there's the fact he can be trained as a Jedi, and Meetra's companions were considered to be the 'Lost Jedi', leading one to assume he went on to be one of these lost Jedi in a way.
A lot of the game was set up for a sequel sadly, and many things were left intentionally vague. So we'll never get a true definitive answer. It's very subjective, however, I think given the evidence, it's safe to say he survived and joined the Jedi order 😀
Edward Hunter my theory is that he stayed in the ebon hawk for beeing an escape option later
100% Star Wars and bao dur could make another one even he admitted it to the exile
In head canon, Bao-Dur sacrifice himself to save Atton from Sion and was the first one to died while Atton fight the Sith, maybe losing a limb.
@@100StarWars
Didn't Chris Avellone confirm that Bao Dur would sacrifice himself on Telos?
If he would still be alive at Malachor V, he would either help the party against Kreia(they were all gonna attack her, so why exclude him?)or he would give the orders to the remote himself instead of it seeing a previous recording.
Tbh i like the jedi exile even more now that her lore is more developed
I just wish that lore was better :/
I agree, but her getting the chance to progress lore-wise is what we all hope for, for our favorite video game characters. I just wish she didnt receive such a lazy write off in ToR. Some would say that just kind of goes along with the Tragedy of Darth Revan, which i do think all in all is a tragic tale
I agree, it is a tragic tale. But it's not a good one.
Idk if canonically he's a jedi sentinel but in game he is a guardian.
For all of my games, he has been a sentinel
"Now that is a name I have not heard in many years."
Is there a vid on the Ebon Hawk before and after the games?
Yeah, it's on my channel! - ruclips.net/video/lanBGUXiZzQ/видео.html
Ugh Atton
Did you feel.. Replaced? Carth?
I don't want to talk about it
I mean, you had a couple of seconds in KOTOR 2 :D
And I stole the show
I dunno about that.
The only thing I would change is Nar Shadaa being planet 2 and training Atton as quickly as possible.
Dantooine ideally should be planet 2 after Telos and Nar Shadaa 3, to get your personal crystal, to get your lightsaber and some power crystals on an easy planet, to get Visas and Disciple who are both more powerful than Atton. Disciple is the best choice to board Goto's yacht-especially if already made a Jedi and has a lightsaber, to come with you on Dxun and Korriban, and join Visas to attack Freedon Nadd's tomb.
@theia1653 But now thanks to the lightsabers on Peragus mod and the workbench trick, you can get several lightsabers early on. By planet 2, I meant after Dantooine. I number based on after getting off Telos.
would a spin off atton movie be cool?
A spin off movie for any of these characters would be cool :D
ikr
I kinda want to see one of these types of videos on Mical the Disciple
I will get around to doing a video on him :D
@@100StarWars ok that is epic, can't wait. I know a lot of people hate him, but he's a nice dude
What do you mean "pazaak?". What, again?
Pure Pazaak.
This page is awesome
Thank you very much!
"You think you're hot stuff, don't ya?!"
10/10 video for a 9/10 character
Yaaay, I did a better job than the character :p
While not my favorite of the ladies in KOTOR 2 to do one on Kreia sounds interesting
Can you do one an HK47 T3M4 Mira and Hanharr?
I plan to!
Also, KOTOR II was AFTER the destruction of Malachor V and the detonation of the mass shadow generator.
Yes...? Where is it said it's not?
How about the amazing Wookie, Hanharr!
He's definitely on the list, as all of the KOTOR characters are :D
Remember.... Denying power that isn't yours... thats true Strength
Kreia: “He walks, but he is dead.”
I can't see Atton actually joining the jedi, more like searching the galaxy for the exile but never finding her.
I see him doing what Meetra wanted of him, and that was to help rebuild the order. So it makes sense for me :)
I always imagined he died for the exile, but not to Sion. She brought him along and he dies in their search for Revan.
Revan didn't want to turn jedi to the darkside. he wanted to convert them to his chaotic good ideology.
He was far from chaotic good. More neutral evil if you want to put him on that chart.
I can see that and I’d agree if his goal was simply conquer and rule the republic. His motives were good to replace the republic and give it the direction and strength under his leadership to defend against an invasion from the sith empire in the unknown regions. To spare it’s inhabitants from enslavement or outright extermination by the true sith and committing some evil to prevent a greater one seems chaotic good. I suppose it all boils down to if you see reven as evil or not. I appreciate your perspective, it’s been thought provoking.
Well, you have to understand, Revan's motive was still dominion and power, regardless of the intent to do 'good' in this context. He wanted to reinvent the Sith and the Republic under his empire. Did good come of that ideology? Yes. Was there mass death and destruction too? Yes. Which would mean Neutral Evil fits him more than anything. There is no good and evil, simply power and success. This is of course if you follow the canonical story including SWTOR etc.
the non canonical view that KOTOR 2 tried to set up was Revan's sacrifice of himself to the dark side for the benefit of others... Which would be more like a Lawful Evil alignment.
Well said. I still think that chaotic good is the best definition, however I see that it’s from my bias in that I sympathize with revan’s goals and feel the republic would be better off. Seeing that the ends justify the means, thus chaotic good. Looking at it as objectively as I can, I see that lawful evil is probably a better fit, from the prospect of a historical/lore point of view. I can’t speak to swtor lore, so I’ll differ to your points. Thanks you, again. As a big fan of kotor, I appreciate the insight.
Thank you for the conversation! Was fun!
When I started playing this game when I was younger, I kept on having very Naughty dreams about Atton Rand. I miss those days...
So confused. Never met the disciple and never knew atton was Force sensitive. Also I played as a male character. Why is there all this canon with Meetra Surik when you create your own character in game!?
Because despite the open character creator for the game, there is a canonical story.
Why’d I never meet the disciple?
Because the Disciple was only accessible if you played a female.
You'd find him but can't take him as a companion
Just like they felt they had to create canonical Revan and thus a vanon path for KOTOR because of TOR, they felt they had to do the same for KOTOR 2. Imho it's a mistake. Neither KOTOR 1 nor 2 should have a canonical path, your playthrough should be your canon.
Could you make a video about the plot with the restored content?
Curious suggestion, thanks!
A lesser Monster not worth the recognition but as a pion to a sceem.
Do you think atton could in his jedi life become strong enough to kick trayas ass?
Not in the slightest.
No way. She was hard to defeat even for the Exile, the strongest Jedi of the group, and Atton is essentially a padawan. Maybe if he ambushed her and gets very lucky. Mical and Mandalore are stronger than him as a fighter, and Mandalore had the balls to take on Nihilus. Traya could kill several Jedi masters with a wave of her hand.
Traya would make Atton cry
May towards the end of his life after he had helped restore the jedi order but definitely not in the game
@@100StarWars I ment could you imagine that Atton could become strong enough in his later jedi career to mess with her/ beat her? Because he was a very important person for rebuilding the jedi order, so in my opinion and my imaginations he became much more powerful and Kreia said that too
I own Kotor 2 but what other SW masterpiece is there available for me to buy next?
There's a lot of stories out there :)
Can you make a video about Mira?
I definitely will!
Thank you (y)
I love how I wrote a comment I forgot about 4 years ago and I can't believe this is a 5 year old video. Lol
Time flies!
Man im about to get the steam Version, where Do i get the restored content mod?
You'll need to download it via the steam workshop.
@@100StarWars thx, now i just need a new Laptop 😂😂✌️
Is it possible, even vaguely, that Atton - who killed a Jedi woman - actually murdered the Handmaidens mother? It would explain his immense dislike of her if he recognized her face.
I don't think so.
4 year old comment but i thought i remember it was implied kreia was hand maidens mother
Can you link me the rcm link? I cant find or download it
It is on the steam workshop.
Getting that dude to become sith was the hardest thing in the entire game.
He's very tough to influence.
How? He responds positively to killing random people. You don't even have to try, just do your ordinary dark side things while he's there.
HE WAS A FOOL
But a fool the force looked out for...
Can you do one on Carth Onasi?
I'll get to him one day!
Thank you! Did you like the first game?
@@100StarWars Thank you, interesting channel, do you have patreon?
@@martini007m I do, yes! www.patreon.com/user?u=6853367&fan_landing=true
Atton Rand rocks ^^
I prefer when the foold get back on Jedi hunting dying in his hunt.
Does anybody know exactly how he died
Nope. Tis a mystery :)
When I jumped into hyperspace in the beginning I thought I took the death sticks
THEN I HAVE ACHIEVED MY GOALS!
100% Star Wars your content seems very interesting I just found you on RUclips lol
I do hope you go onto enjoy it :D
100% Star Wars hey I was wondering if you would do a story on what happened to the ebon hawk leading up to its sad destruction above taris I just started playing the mmo swtor and this is also off topic but do you do any other videos other than star wars probably a stupid question hence your name lol
No, Star Wars only here :D And what do you mean its destruction above Taris? I have an Ebon Hawk Origin video here! - ruclips.net/video/lanBGUXiZzQ/видео.html
Can you find out all of this backstory just talking to him in the game?
The majority of it yes!
The only thing that I don't like about Atton is that he is a blaster-wielding scoundrel with 10 intelligence and lots of dexterity. His class gives him a ton of skills, but his intelligence does not do him justice. Also, using blasters requires a ton of feats, like two-handed weapons, close combat, precise shot and rapid shot. Character wise he is great, but structurally he does not make any sense.
Do a video on Atris next
I will get around to Atris don't worry!