Hey Dan! Actually a very accurate description of a real annual. I’m right with you! Have a 1971 177B FG. Just completed my annual. It was $1800 plus parts and labor for found stuff brought it to total of $4000. I did owner assisted annual.. Removed cowling . Removed all exterior inspection plates. Removed seats. Removed carpet. Removed all interior inspection plates. Hand sanded a lot of stuff. They removed and reinstalled plastics.. I work as well so just took two Friday’s off. Shop is open all week, so open Friday, Saturday and closed Sunday so A&P could work on his own 76 177RG, So he let me come in on Sunday as well and would supervise. I’m telling you, you really learn a lot. Did my own oil change except I haven’t mastered the safety wire thing yet. Cut filter. No metals! Sent to Blackstone and then to Savvy. Use Savvy as well but dropping from Savvy MX TO Savvy Qx. Between CFO and Savvy, plus I read and refer to all Mike Bushes books, as well as a great A&P, , I’ve got a pretty good handle on it. Bot last June and now have 120 hrs in it now! Start IFR training in two weeks. Already passed written and I’ve RUclipsd the shit out of IFR videos. Did the Ron Machado IFR on line. Also did PilotWorkshops.com IFR course and video, and thing called East Coast IFR. Catch you someday for $100 hamburger! Love my Cardinal! N177VC.
Thanks for sharing. I understand from an owner's standpoint the ambiguity in spending a lot of money on something and not know for sure whether it's needed. Being a former A&P, I also know that different mechanics have different levels of comfort in letting items go until the next annual versus signing off on them. Whenever an IA signs off an annual inspection they are not just taking responsibility for the work done at annual, but all the work ever done on the aircraft up to that point. Its a lot of liability for very little money and little things like flap cables can bother your conscience and wake you up in the middle of the night. Thanks for the videos; keep them coming.
A personal experience regarding different mechanics: My first annual after buying this plane my mechanic found that the fuel line AD had not been properly complied with, despite being logged as such for several previous annuals. There are DEFINITELY different comfort levels! And one big bit of uncertainty for owners when you start going to a new mechanic since they're going to want to look in detail at some things to verify that previous shops were maintaining to the same standards. My primary complaint in the flap cable adjustment anecdote was really that they would often discover these things after they'd told me they were done and starting to put things back together and then it would show up as a few more days before the plane was ready along with an unexpected multiple hours of labor on the bill. IMHO, that's a sign of some bad time management - which, as a software engineer, I can fully understand the challenges of discovering additional things late in the game! I just wish they were better at managing the process.
@@spinf0rk Thanks for the reply. I fully agree with you about things needing to be managed more effectively and efficiently. Unfortunately, I have found that many GA shops and airlines as well that there is a lack of professionalism within the maintenance department/company. As with any company, it stems from upper management"s pressure to make a profit and hiring employees that will do a job with integrity despite the pressures.
I do not own an airplane and haven’t flown for a long time but the cardinal is quite a beautiful airplane and I am interested in what you had to say as a former airplane owner. What about the main spar on the cardinal. Do they look at that in any special way since there has been and AD on it and a failure of a cardinal wing in Australia.
Not an owner yet, but one of my clubs maintains its own airplane with our member A&P (and now with IA). In hindsight, I can't believe how much I didn't know about aircraft maintenance until I started helping out with our annuals and other maintenance. Pilots should consider helping out an A&P with an annual inspection: you'l learn a ton about the airplane and be a better pilot. Well done video by the way Dan, as always!
I've been fortunate enough to have more time and a closer shop in the past, generally after they'd finish with inspecting I'd come by in person to discuss squawks, and I did participated in oil changes with them which taught me what to look for under the cowl in addition to how to do the oil change. It's really helpful to have this level of knowledge about the mechanical side of things, plus it's really cool to see the airplane with things opened up for inspection! Before I moved I was in a shared hangar, but now with a T-hangar I did my first non-annual oil change myself which you can do as a Private Pilot owner. The skills I learned from doing it mostly myself while supervised by an A&P made it easy to do by myself, and an oil change is typically two hours of labor so this is a substantial savings.
Had 12 piston engines on aircraft, ran most to TBO, never had engine failure and never once paid for engine oil analysis . In fact had 1600 tbo engines up graded to 2000hrs TBO on Part 135!
Great video Dan specially for us rookies to see perfect clear picture what to expect at annual. Also what about main spar ? Is it true issue with 177s? Guess with that question I'm definitely rookie:)
Good question. Yes, this airplane has a carry-thru spar unlike the strutted high wing Cessnas. Corrosion would be the concern, and there's recently been a service bulletin for a one time eddy current inspection to look for any cracks. I did it last year without issue, but based on the service bulletin, my use case, and the airframe total time it was not technically due. It's always surface inspected at annual time for corrosion and any cracking. I believe the trigger for the service bulletin was actually a 210 involved in very serious duty (pipeline patrol) and high time airframe experiencing a spar failure. The original tubing from cabin air inlet to eyeball vents was black cloth ("CAT"?) tubing, this can be prone to causing corrosion due to the metals in the tubing frame and wetness soaking through from flying in the rain/humidity. I had the seller replace the tubing on mine with SCAT tubing (the orange stuff which does not have this issue) as the prebuy inspection turned up some minor surface corrosion.
Great info, Dan! Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the cross country planning video. If you get the chance, fly in to KPYM. My old stomping ground. I'd love to see some footage of the harbor.
Thanks! Examples are specific to this plane, of course, but it gives you an idea about what you're always going to pay for the inspection phase of things (both the annual and every-two-years pitot/static inspection). With an owner assisted annual and simple non-retract plane, you could probably have an inspection cost under $500 which would make things much more affordable for someone who has time to do the drudge work of opening/closing the inspection plates and remove/replace interior.
Hey Dan! Actually a very accurate description of a real annual. I’m right with you! Have a 1971 177B FG. Just completed my annual. It was $1800 plus parts and labor for found stuff brought it to total of $4000. I did owner assisted annual.. Removed cowling . Removed all exterior inspection plates. Removed seats. Removed carpet. Removed all interior inspection plates. Hand sanded a lot of stuff. They removed and reinstalled plastics.. I work as well so just took two Friday’s off. Shop is open all week, so open Friday, Saturday and closed Sunday so A&P could work on his own 76 177RG, So he let me come in on Sunday as well and would supervise. I’m telling you, you really learn a lot. Did my own oil change except I haven’t mastered the safety wire thing yet. Cut filter. No metals! Sent to Blackstone and then to Savvy. Use Savvy as well but dropping from Savvy MX TO Savvy Qx. Between CFO and Savvy, plus I read and refer to all Mike Bushes books, as well as a great A&P, , I’ve got a pretty good handle on it. Bot last June and now have 120 hrs in it now! Start IFR training in two weeks. Already passed written and I’ve RUclipsd the shit out of IFR videos. Did the Ron Machado IFR on line. Also did PilotWorkshops.com IFR course and video, and thing called East Coast IFR. Catch you someday for $100 hamburger! Love my Cardinal! N177VC.
Thanks for sharing. I understand from an owner's standpoint the ambiguity in spending a lot of money on something and not know for sure whether it's needed.
Being a former A&P, I also know that different mechanics have different levels of comfort in letting items go until the next annual versus signing off on them. Whenever an IA signs off an annual inspection they are not just taking responsibility for the work done at annual, but all the work ever done on the aircraft up to that point. Its a lot of liability for very little money and little things like flap cables can bother your conscience and wake you up in the middle of the night. Thanks for the videos; keep them coming.
A personal experience regarding different mechanics: My first annual after buying this plane my mechanic found that the fuel line AD had not been properly complied with, despite being logged as such for several previous annuals. There are DEFINITELY different comfort levels! And one big bit of uncertainty for owners when you start going to a new mechanic since they're going to want to look in detail at some things to verify that previous shops were maintaining to the same standards.
My primary complaint in the flap cable adjustment anecdote was really that they would often discover these things after they'd told me they were done and starting to put things back together and then it would show up as a few more days before the plane was ready along with an unexpected multiple hours of labor on the bill. IMHO, that's a sign of some bad time management - which, as a software engineer, I can fully understand the challenges of discovering additional things late in the game! I just wish they were better at managing the process.
@@spinf0rk Thanks for the reply. I fully agree with you about things needing to be managed more effectively and efficiently. Unfortunately, I have found that many GA shops and airlines as well that there is a lack of professionalism within the maintenance department/company. As with any company, it stems from upper management"s pressure to make a profit and hiring employees that will do a job with integrity despite the pressures.
Hey Dan Great video! Thank you for the thorough information you offered in the video. It was very informative.
Thanks Dan, Gr8 run-thru of the annual inspection!!
I do not own an airplane and haven’t flown for a long time but the cardinal is quite a beautiful airplane and I am interested in what you had to say as a former airplane owner. What about the main spar on the cardinal. Do they look at that in any special way since there has been and AD on it and a failure of a cardinal wing in Australia.
Good job. Very informative video!
Not an owner yet, but one of my clubs maintains its own airplane with our member A&P (and now with IA). In hindsight, I can't believe how much I didn't know about aircraft maintenance until I started helping out with our annuals and other maintenance. Pilots should consider helping out an A&P with an annual inspection: you'l learn a ton about the airplane and be a better pilot.
Well done video by the way Dan, as always!
I've been fortunate enough to have more time and a closer shop in the past, generally after they'd finish with inspecting I'd come by in person to discuss squawks, and I did participated in oil changes with them which taught me what to look for under the cowl in addition to how to do the oil change. It's really helpful to have this level of knowledge about the mechanical side of things, plus it's really cool to see the airplane with things opened up for inspection!
Before I moved I was in a shared hangar, but now with a T-hangar I did my first non-annual oil change myself which you can do as a Private Pilot owner. The skills I learned from doing it mostly myself while supervised by an A&P made it easy to do by myself, and an oil change is typically two hours of labor so this is a substantial savings.
Had 12 piston engines on aircraft, ran most to TBO, never had engine failure and never once paid for engine oil analysis . In fact had 1600 tbo engines up graded to 2000hrs TBO on Part 135!
What is your point? Seems like you beat the odds.
Great video Dan specially for us rookies to see perfect clear picture what to expect at annual. Also what about main spar ? Is it true issue with 177s? Guess with that question I'm definitely rookie:)
Good question. Yes, this airplane has a carry-thru spar unlike the strutted high wing Cessnas. Corrosion would be the concern, and there's recently been a service bulletin for a one time eddy current inspection to look for any cracks. I did it last year without issue, but based on the service bulletin, my use case, and the airframe total time it was not technically due. It's always surface inspected at annual time for corrosion and any cracking. I believe the trigger for the service bulletin was actually a 210 involved in very serious duty (pipeline patrol) and high time airframe experiencing a spar failure.
The original tubing from cabin air inlet to eyeball vents was black cloth ("CAT"?) tubing, this can be prone to causing corrosion due to the metals in the tubing frame and wetness soaking through from flying in the rain/humidity. I had the seller replace the tubing on mine with SCAT tubing (the orange stuff which does not have this issue) as the prebuy inspection turned up some minor surface corrosion.
Great info, Dan! Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the cross country planning video. If you get the chance, fly in to KPYM. My old stomping ground. I'd love to see some footage of the harbor.
Nice break down of costs!
Thanks! Examples are specific to this plane, of course, but it gives you an idea about what you're always going to pay for the inspection phase of things (both the annual and every-two-years pitot/static inspection). With an owner assisted annual and simple non-retract plane, you could probably have an inspection cost under $500 which would make things much more affordable for someone who has time to do the drudge work of opening/closing the inspection plates and remove/replace interior.
Are you a CFI by chance? I enjoy watching your videos and would be interested in learning from you
I’m not a CFI... yet. I’d like to do it some day but I have two young kids and time is limited right now.
@@spinf0rk totally understand. That's what's got me waiting to start as well. I'm hoping this year to get started and live my adventure
Wow, you are pay less per hour than I am on my car(s) in Newton! I'm paying $100 per hour.
A lot more hours of labor necessary of course! I think the labor rate at my shop back in the Boston area was closer to (and maybe even was) $100/hr.