The Disco Elysium Drama - Luke Reacts
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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Luke Stephens is a Content-Creator and Streamer that co-streams on RUclips and Twitch. This channel has Live Stream clips and highlights in addition to the streams themselves. Check out Luke's main channel & other content by going to: linktr.ee/luke... !!
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The allegation about the company being stolen is weightier than what is being described here. It's much more serious, and also much more complicated.
To cut it EXTREMELY short, Kurvitz alleges that someone paid essentially $1 (not the true figure but you get the picture) to buy concept art for Disco Elysium 2 from the company...then sold the very same concept art BACK to the company for a ton of cash which they THEN used to buy the company with. Again, much more complex, a lot of necessary details omitted but that's the gist. And again, the original video goes to great lengths to give this topic the thorough treatment it deserves.
EDIT: in absolute fairness, Luke goes through the allegations here at 17:53; but, through no direct fault of his own and in the interest of time, doesn't go into some of the crucial context I talked about above. Again, if you can, please watch the original video to have all the facts known so far.
What do you mean the concept art was sold for $1? Like management sold it? Who?
@@ewjiml I rewatched part of the original video to try and answer your question...and now I'm more convinced than ever you'll do better watching at least Chapter 1: Follow the Money. It's about 25 painstaking, extremely thorough minutes of the twists and turns of this incredibly bizarre transaction. But the incredibly, incredibly short and ridiculously simplified answer to your question is...kinda? Again, you really gotta watch the video.
That smell do bad of accusing the weaker side of doing what they did to diverge suspect to the innocent part. What's the plan for the future?
"Pass the mantle because the superpowers can only be at the cape? No way the powers were at person all along, right? No, the cape can't only be a cloth, you can jump from a skyscrapper because the cape will make you fly."
@@ewjiml If you want a more concise treatment of this story, RoboKast did a 13min vid on this a few months ago titled "How Disco Elysium Was Stolen From Its Creators."
The fraudster devalued the art on the company books, sold the art to his girlfriend for '$1' and she sold it back for millions to buy out the shares of the old owners, then she gave those shares to the fraudster who then kicked out/fired the old leadership and installed himself as the majority shareholder.
PMG equated this gross theft by the new suits, with the original owners being mean and hard to work with! Nuts! Pure Nuts! There is no comparison with, on one hand someone being a jerk, and the other hand someone else defrauding the company for 10s of millions of dollars. PMG really screwed up this story and he took 2 1/2 hours to do it.
Its kinda hilarious and Ironic that Disco Elysium sequel got killed by capitalism.
I don’t see the irony, isn’t disco Elysium against capitalism? It would be ironic if the game was all about capitalism yet the sequel is killed by capitalism.
@@paulallen2680That is the point, the game that anti capitalist got killed by capitalism.
They made a game to “stick it to the man” only to become “the man” themselves.
@paulallen2680 The game isn't against capitalism. it makes fun of everything, including late stage capitalism and communism. The only thing the game is against is fascism.
@@Dr.Yakub22 gotcha
While this is unfortunate, Disco Elysium always felt like one of those one of a kind, lightning in a bottle type of games. I never saw a sequel as working and it seems like that is maybe for the best.
Absolutely. Unplanned sequels can really drag. I'd much rather see the same team just tackle new IP. As an aside, it's one thing I didn't like about Stranger Things. I thought the first season was entertaining, and when they said there would be more, I really, really wanted it to be anthological; have season 2 be a totally different story, but set in the same universe. Instead you end up with characters that get shoehorned into contrivances that just exist to tie the IP together.
Fk sequels lol
the writing in disco elysium is the dumb person's idea of good writing
@@numberonedad Wow, you are so smart. Us dummies were all impressed by the writing, but not you, you clever, clever guy. You totally saw the writing for what it is, and called out us for being the simpletons we are.
Man, you've impressed us all with how much smarter you are than us. Where do we send your trophy for 'smartest person alive'?
@@sydhamelin1265 while I generally agree. A lot of times people aren't able to put everything they wanted to into a game in the first go. So, with the right team, a sequel might be just what they needed to work on.
Phantom liberty is a good example of what cdpr wanted to achieve with cyberpunk and it shows, which is why I'm excited about a possible sequel.
Given the extreme diversity of dialogue, and the potent way of sharing all forms of ideas, it wouldn't surprise me if the lead writer would be difficult to work with. You can get this kind of idealism, where you put enough into a piece of work that you don't want to share in the creative development process, and sometimes you're also terrible at dealing with it.
I've played in bands where you get one guy who does the lion's share of the writing, and it's not all too uncommon for that person to start taking ANY other ideas as wrong. If it didn't come from them, they don't want it 'infecting' their vision. The real problems pop up when their visions are undeniably great, because it gives them no reason to adjust that mentality, and there really is some justification as well.
A couple times I would actually pull someone aside and say 'maybe you should consider yourself a solo artist, and advertise accordingly', so instead of saying you're looking to form a band, just say you need musicians to perform your songs.
Likewise, I can see that forming a company, and giving up some creative control, could turn someone like that into a person who is very difficult to work with. The Beatles only lasted 10 years. It's tough to share visions.
Very well said.
The ground reason for most of those problems is that the devs were not ready to handle money. They were a collective of mostly activists who despised business and such things and it shows when you play the game. So they were not ready to face that situation and some of them took advantage of this.
I've seen the People Make Games video and think it has some serious issues. One party alleged what is essentially the theft of a whole studio and its IP, and the party that allegedly performed that theft fired back with "well, those guys were jerks and sucked to work with". One alleged crime is FAR more serious than the other, but PMG basically treats them like they have equal weight. It's bizarre to me because PMG usually does great work, but this piece is far and away their worst imo
Well put. The issue boils down to PMG trying to appear impartial but failing to present one side as fleshed out as the other. Their video goes easy on the CEO but doesn't include a matching interview with the visionary. What the video ends up being is quite impartial.
I think PMG would not have the interview with the CEO if the questioning was harder.
That's because anytime someone is accused of a sin in the church of w-o-k-e, it's always instantly considered the worst thing ever, all context be damned.
All you need to do is to read 'Sacred and Terrible Air' to dispel any doubts who is the creator and visionary behind Disco Elysium world and style.
i think the "hard to work with" part is often just the high bar that an og creator of an IP demands, while publishers want to just make nice profit margin, if that means less quality by less costs but enough initial sales it is considered a commercial succes.
having the "conceiver" of a project around is a nuicance for publishers.
bit like always having the dad around when you visit your new gf...
so they conceive reasons to get rid of those emotional involved in the IP.
money over bro's, the CEO way.
Also hard to work with often is just people who disagree with someone who has the final say cause said person is usually just trying to push out a uniformed narrative or vision for the game/book/movie/show. Any big name director for example could probably be labeled as "hard to work with". The fact the company uses the word "toxic" and "sexist" goes to show that there was probably just a few whiners who didnt like the way the writers approached meetings or "how they said things".
Sometimes as a creative head you gotta be firm and lead to get things done and have cohesion... we are in a point of time where strong leadership itself is often seen as "toxic", so its hard to take those types of complains serious current year. I guarentee this all started when some lower level employee didnt like the way they were talked to during a meeting and probably lodged a complaint to HR and it became this huge escalating drama!!!
We can only assume. He might be actually hard to work with pushing employees to work extra long hours or being toxic and disrespectful. But at the same time he may be the one who is suffering having his work stolen and he has done nothing of that sort. Stuff like this often lies in the grey area.
@@justsomerandomguy6719 if you got an "toxic"boss, which is already a very subjective and interpretable label, you have the power to quit!
that is how it works.
but nagging while working there or start complaining when you got the boot.....that is in my opinion very toxic.
so at best it is toxic employees that are complaining about toxic employers. in which case they just "found out" what happens if the toxicity you "f- around" with is reflected back.
in other words, karma.
@@eelco_de_haan what if you love the job and one senior out of many decent ones is the toxic one? Your solution is that instead of speaking out about the issue we should just leave. That is the worst advice I have ever heard. You are literally saying that people should never say anything against toxic work culture and just be submissive. I guess we can just agree to disagree.
Also it is not subjective that an employer is toxic if a lot of his employees are not happy with him. Sometimes people are just not good to work with and that does not make the employees toxic if they complain. HR literally exists for that reason.
@@justsomerandomguy6719 if you don't own the company, you are probably the one that have to find a team or company that isn't regarded by you as "toxic".
or start your own company on those values and see if that is viable to grow into a succeeding business.
can
toxicity is subjective!
very personal what someone regards as toxic.
some think professional sports are toxic, "only focused on performance and winning".
others think it is just trying to push yourself to the limits and feel that that environment is helping them succeed that.
no consensus of what absolute defines toxicity.
its a personal emotional trigger.
only fixed by maturing emotionally.
because that is where the problem lays, the big perccentage of emotional immature people in our society.
...i blame the parents!
and well, we all know who those kids blame!
everybody that doesn't exactly allign with their limited and contrived view of the world and society.
lmao
"let live" is a great mechanic to lessen friction and not value your own worth to the opinion others may have on you.
i don't feel toxicity, because i don't give a shit what somebody thinks of my views or opinion.
if i don't like my surroundings or the people i have to see every day, i am the one to change my shit.
as i am the one bothered by it, not the legion of other people that are perfectly happy and functioning in that environment.
at that moment i am the problem not the.
doesn't mean either is right, just that it isn't compatible with my personality.
very simple
How come you never link the original video in description?
It is our policy to always link the original videos directly in the descriptions. It appears this has been forgotten on a couple of recent uploads. I just reaffirmed this policy with the whole team after seeing this comment. I have instructed them to go through all of these recent videos and link the content, so thank you for bringing it to my attention!
~ Luke
Good man.@@lukestephenslive
One of my favorite sayings goes something like "there are 3 sides to every story, yours, theirs. And the truth, which lies somewhere in the middle"
I'll never understand the "difficult to work with excuse" i've had the same job for almost 20 years and i couldn't count the number of people i've worked with that i outright hated but still wanted to work with simply because they did good work. If you place getting along and comfort over doing a good job then you don't understand the point of a job.
Then again, i'm probably much older then most people who work in the games industry and i remember a time when it was unofficially agreed on by everyone that you left your work problems at work and your personal problems at home.
After watching the video my opinion went from one extreme to the other.
The CEO is a dirtbag and surely used questionable maneuvers to get his majority plus he has a questionable past and surely if it were up to him, the names of the creative trio would be erased from the game.
But Robert sounds like the worst kind of person to work for and he also doesn't seem to tell the truth when confronted with events that others say. In addition, instead of responding to the allegations, he goes into a political speech trying to sound like a martyr instead of denying or admitting guilt.
Kurvits doesn't seem bad to me by that email that was written to him. The emails writer decided to not include a single detail or incident in particular, instead vague words like 'patriarchal" and "feudalistic" are used Seems like B/S to me. What did he do exactly? If they can't even describe what he did, to him, in a private email... maybe a few people got their feelings hurt and decided to cancel or bully someone they don't like. When has Luke ever founded a publicly traded company that had shareholders??? LOL
yeah its super sus, normal people dont use the phrase "you treated this person patriarchally" if someone mistreated someone, a normal person says you dont treat anyone like that, or you dont treat a woman like that. its kind of a big clue as to whats going on imo. stealing a company vs not liking how someone spoke or acted. as long as dude didnt physically abuse someone or incredibly mentally, thats no reason to steal someones creation and spot in a company.
I wish I could understand the impulse to formulate pretty definitive opinions based on obviously incomplete information. I just...get this nagging itch to know what I'm talking about first.
Yup, sounds like some w-o-k-e people may hav wanted him out of the studio, which is easy to see given what the game is like.
There are very credible allegations made about the lead writer and his crew by some of the people still at the company. This is a messy, messy story and people would greatly benefit from the real, true journalism given in the original video exploring all the complexities of the unfortunate situation.
Yeah, at first I was on the devs side but after the actual video it seems alot more muddy, as people have come out agreeing with the CEOs point
@@starlord1521AND YET, if memory serves (its been awhile since I watched it) it definitely seems like something close to financial fraud took place there to buy those shares! So far until the courts say otherwise, the only people clean are the other devs caught in the middle...not the head of the company or Kurvitz and his lot.
@@joebrown6778yeah. I have no conclusion yet. Best to just wait till court docs come out
A rational response in an irrational world, heh.
@@sydhamelin1265 the whole thing feels like somn that wont be to out of place in a disco elysium side quest lol
Gender discrimination and toxic work environment = somebody didn't get the promotion that they thought they deserved.
Except the thing that happened with Kojima no matter what the Kojima cucks want to cry, his employer found out he was stealing company time money and resources to do things behind their back. While they had already paid 80 million dollars for MGSV...People seem to LOVE to ignore that he started the game, halfway through development stopped, threw out all that work and decided he wanted to build an engine and then restart development. When your wasting company money and then stealing YES your going to get fired.
DE was absolutely not my kind of game, but I love the graphics and the world, characters. And I never saw a studio evaporate themselves at that speed. From all the reports it seems everyone was trying to oust everyone else. It´s also suspicious that everything is so specific and detailed
It remains to be seen if Kurvitz could pull off a whole new world and universe. If you follow the story about them and Elysium this was something they’ve been creating, expanding, and playing with for decades. They didn’t just sit down to write a game and pull out Elysium, they’ve had this artist collective thing going on since they were kids and they built this whole universe up over time. So for him to pull that kind of magic out of a bottle for a new game and universe would actually be the first time he’s had to do it by himself. The collective, regardless of how central Kurvitz’s vision and voice may be, is no more.
If someone is brave enough to put up with him and he does pull it off though, that will be the biggest damn ego east of Trump tower.
The game is great, buy it, fuck the drama...
Sent me on a wild goose chase on google for weird Kojima eating hamsters stories
This guy showed up in my recommended shorts. I finally put my finger on why he sounded familiar. He sounds almost EXACTLY like my dentist. odd, occurance.
Most people will be pissed at the corporation no matter what they do. If ubisoft fired those devs, people would have come out saying screw ubisoft and would take the sides of the devs. If this company kept these 3 and then later a story is written about how terrible they are, people would bitch about the company doing that and say they don't care about their employees. It's a lose lose situation regardless bc too many people in this country don't know how to think rationally.
I tried to play this and I only lasted for 15mins and realized, i just dont want to
When the devs praised Marx on-stage I instantly said "Nope; never". They don't like capitalism? Then they don't need my consumerism".
Bratters! I remember when he was working at Videogamer with Simon Miller, then he left for Eurogamer. Nice to see he is still doing well.
I will have to watch the entire documentary.
I watched this video, and just bought the game. I don't care one bit about the drama.
All the devs could be serial killers. If they produced a good game, I would still buy it. Perhaps I would even be more intrigued.
What if some of the devs were harmed by some of the lead devs? The game was a team effort. Would you feel bad for those effected if it turned out to be true?
@@joebrown6778
Of course, but I do not know the people and feel no personal connection whatsoever. I would not feel motivated to not buy a game I am interested in.
I am not a judge and jury who punishes people by not buying games I like. That would be ridiculous behavior.
Cancel culture has devolved into something beyond preposterous.
@@Ploskkky I suppose I wasn't questioning your opinions on a boycott I haven't seen anyone propose...I was just trying to decipher if you really could've cared less about the conditions the game was made under. I'm glad to hear you do, and I hope you love Elysium as much as I did.
@@joebrown6778 I think "the caring" is overrated.
People feel less for the predicament of people they do not know than they pretend to do.
I would care, for a few seconds... somewhat... vaguely...
You guys stayed civil! I think this is the first thread I’ve seen that didn’t blow up into name calling. Awesome
Wasn't there something about fake loans to a girlfriend from the company's own money, who then bought up the shares and then used those shares to kick out the previous owners, and appointed the boyfriend to the CEO position?
RoboKast did a video about this 6 months ago "How Disco Elysium Was Stolen From Its Creators".
I’m losing my mind at the unnecessary analogy because there was already a real life example oh my god this is so funny 9:54
I'm pretty sure if I created a game and found a publisher, they would want to own part or 50/50 of the IP, which would screw me later on since it's my baby , but I wouldn't of been able to publish it without them... So idk how I feel about it
So far it seems like the company referring to toxic culture and sexism is pretty generic accusations one would embrace in modern culture and they do not seem founded. Like guys in far Estonia saw how some arguments are solved in US and thought “why shouldn’t we do the same”
People Make Games and NoClip are the dudes who started off my journey of interest in this Media Genre. I watch you, LS, for all my modern content and those two for the nostalgia from my youth . Being 50'ish it's great to hear about the 90s, 80s etc ,aswell as cutting edge stuff from today.
Robert Kravitz 💀
It's always funny to hear Americans talking about European economic matters, you don't even understand how hard it is to fire people in Europe 😅
The irony of Disco Elysium being embroiled in capitalist board room drama is, itself, the perfect sequel to Disco Elysium. Disco Elysium 2 is literally just real life being shit and capitalist.
I can suggest tim rogers and frederik kudsen as well as salt factory. awesome longform vids
i literally just bought the game because it was on sale, later did i found out ab the drama lmaoo
I don't see a link to the original video? It's rather poor form to not link to the original in a reaction video like this. While undoubtedly fair use, it's also ironic to do so in an investigation on stolen IP allegations.
Disco Elysium is best played with 30mg of extended release adderall.
There's always a more fun drug for a situation than Adderall. Get cultured, no offense.
Man I tried to play Disco but I just can't man. I really wanted to love it but I just didn't. So much talking, put me to sleep almost immediately
I thought Estonia is just a really big liquor shop.....
No that is Latvia
We have seem this so many times I think it's not unfair to assume they fired the golden-eggs goose and now will be angry the new goose can't make gold eggs after "been given the same nest".
A tad late to this one?
Disco made me laugh more than any other game. I had so much fun with that game....this really sucks...
Hi Luke quick question how come you live stream on a second account and not your main channel does it affect your channel view im asking this becuase i am a small channel and want to start doing livestreams. Do you think ill be fine livestreaming on this account or bettor of the have a spare account for livestream or a twitch thank you !
I see a lot of channels that have live stream separate. Even some who make different topics new channels
I use both. I've seen no issue using live streams and recorded content on the same channel.
😂 recommends original video. Doesn't link original video.classic luke
LUKE, have you played Dave the Diver yet? What about Astral Ascent? Do you like roguelikes?
Thats not very disco, not very disco at all
For me this is one of the worst and most overhyped games ever. But then again I'm one of those weirdos that enjoy gameplay not story and dialogue in their games.
As long as you understand that you're objectively wrong, you can think whatever you want about this game.
3:46 okay, then prove that you’re as competent (at least) a journalist as O’Dwyer.
DISCO ELYSIUM WAS AMAZING.
It was a good one off game, hope they all profited off their experience. One hit wonders are great.
You are always welcome in Estonia
If gamedevs make games that have dialogues that rival War & Peace you can bet the farm on the given that they're special snowflakes. Estonian literature is highly regarded, historical and contemporary, and her smiths are celebrated people that are awarded privileges.
It's no surprise to me Kuvitz became a nightmare to work with; he wrote DE after all so, uhm, long live the king!! Kuvitz had a small oversight though, he was in gamedev and not in literature.
Devs who write books instead of a game I tend to lump in with David Cage and his ilk. It's without a doubt true that people outside of the discipline can weave wonderful game-experiences (As they're unfamiliar with the way things are achieved and therefore can operate within wider margins.), but unless they were specifically brought in on project-basis (R.E. Salvatore for instance.) the games that they create always feel antithetical to the concept of electronic games and gaming. As if the devs responsible would rather produce a real ground-breaking movie, rather compose the next legendary classical sweeping orchestral piece or rather pen the next Odyssey.
People trapped in the wrong professional field, more or less.
Tbh, kojima probably opposed the live service metal gear and konami fired him
A patreon for a family holiday, nice. Wasn't it a moral choice to leave Patreon in the first place? Something regarding child exploitation.
There's a possibility that there's just a bunch of extremely vocal, delusional, woke over sensitive individuals who are inwardly conflicted about their own sexual identity and are offended that their peers will not comply with their own desired behavior and or acknowledge/ validate their personal sexual fetishes and are giving a decent guy hell over it. It would be the first time that sort of thing has happened to a more old school, traditionally valued individual.
I think you need therapy. Or a friend.
What a weird comment. His allegations of toxic work environment are basically all related to being hyper critical of the quality of work of his subordinates, and just being a bad boss in general.
As soon as you use the term "WOKE" your opinion is invalid
Thank you for your service, culture warrior.
What type of rambling did I just read
I remember I refunded this game and left a negative review on Steam, never had people use Steam to comment on my review, so much seething and cope, so many sarcastic awards for my Steam review. It was genuinely funny.
Get to the point
yet why would u play elysium, when u could play one that the char injects himself every time loses hp and still doesent look like a drug adict , or disco elysium hell blah blah junkie.
Your spelling and grammar structure speak volumes as to why you couldn't get into DE.
This game was overrated trash anyways. Its literally a visual novel
It isn't literally a visual novel. It is a deep and thought provoking story that engages your mind more than your fingers. It isn't a bad game, even if it wasn't a good game for you.
Using visual novel as a pejorative clearly shows you don't like literature. Your attention span must be whacked and You need your exciting video games!
@@LordofSyn you arguing with a Kyle
@@justinhainsworth7726
Argue is a strong word. I had hoped I handled it fairly diplomatically.
🦜 🐦 🕊️
the writing in disco elysium is the dumb person's idea of good writing
Hardly. Maybe the game was not for you and that's okay if it wasn't. It is not a bad game and the writing is quite good. Reminded me a lot of Planescape Torment in terms of writing.
@@LordofSyn i agree the writing is good compared to other games but that's a very low bar
@@numberonedad
I cannot agree. For a game of this type that leads by its writing, it means everything.
There are some higher level words and concepts used in DE and many of those are not commonly engaged with regularly, amongst any cultures.
We all have different perspectives and those are important because that's how we assign value judgements to what we encounter.
All of our opinions are as valid as we are for having them.