Intel confirms next-gen flagship slower than 14900k in gaming
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Intel's Arrow Lake flagship performance revealed. Core Ultra 9 285K loses at gaming performance to the 14900k, but is more efficient.
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Zen 5%, I9 2.85%, nvidia $5090
RX88.00% effort
Apple M4-X the performance
Way too accurate 😅
-2.85%*
5090 won't be much higher than 4090. Prob like $1899-1999.
Stop crying.
Arrow-in-the-knee Lake
😂😂😂
Hahahaha 🤣
Or wouldn't that be Arrow-in-the-heel Lake? The gods of Olympus are mad!
@@ptessier73 That works too
I love these comments
With each passing day, I am further justified in my decision to have built a 7800X3D build right before Intel said "Oh yeah watch this" and cracked their head on the diving board
a bit too late i think? wait for 9800x3d, few months, u waited most of the time already
Yeah, I'm doing a new build soon and I'm jumping onto AMD without hesitation.
@@mirshia5248the computer is already built. They’re talking about a past decision.
I ordered mine on the day the 7800X3D was released. Those chips are just far too good for gaming to miss out on. And it's been entirely worth it.
@@mirshia5248how much you think 9800x3d will be huh? Yea not cheap since 7800x3d did so well
The fact that they used total system power consumption and not CPU power consumption makes me think there's some shenanigans going on here.
That system power consumption is still much higher than HUB’s 7800X3D system.
They probably used a 3050
@@PowellCat745Obviously a 24 core CPU pulls more power than an 8 core CPU.
@@ZackSNetwork and gets less perfomance.
@@ZackSNetwork doesn’t matter how many cores it has if it’s 10% slower
Zen 5% vs I9 -2.85% who will win the dissappointment of the year? xD
I’m dead😂😂😂😂😂😂
Meanwhile NVIDIA...ahh ohh never mind.
@mikelay5360 that'll be $2,789.67 sir
zen5 is actually slower than 7800x3d by more than 10%. so amd wins.
@@josh4434 Can't wait. Atleast they bring significant gains in performance.
HUB Steve will be standing for this review. eeek
He will be floating over the desk this time
He'll be upside down
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombatI mean, he does live in Australia...
he'd be FLYING
Steve will be standing on a ladder on his rooftop.
the 9800X3D claimed the gaming throne BEFORE it came out
Always trust AMD to fumble a free bag, every single time 😂
@@kyperactive I mean, in this instance, you can say the same for Intel.
@@bconxept True, this aint even me saying Intel was inherently better, more that AMD seems to fumble ez touchdowns.
@@kyperactivefrom what I've heard, AMD fumbled by reusing the entire base of Zen 4, same memory controller, same motherboard. The CPU CORES are different, but bottlenecked. So the X3D will be the ONLY CPU that sees any performance increase, because it's not bottlenecked, and there's a 20% increase from 7800x3d. Sure it's a fumble, but it's not a regression. The dual ccd is good for professional work. 3dvcache is good for gaming. Same as always.
@@JohnDoe-ip3oq Of course the X3D gets preferential treatment lol
AMD gotta tighten up...
Intel actually not using 9999999 Watts per core and in the process destroying itself automatically is a good thing.
Only 10 Years to restore Intels reputation left at this point.
Well deserved if you are complacent for over a decade.
it only reduced 80 watts, but never said what parts it had inside, so we dont know what is really being used by the cpu, so it could be pure bs, snake oild intel brand
@@arch1107 We do know whats inside and Its only worse in gaming performance, but it has a maximum power draw of 250 watts compared to the 14900K's 500 watts. Also, it excels in workload tasks, performing approximately 15% better overall.
@@arch1107 We'll have to wait for the reviews, but if Intel really was able to achieve almost the performance of the 14th generation with only half the power, that would be very impressive.
@@segiraldovi half?
you saw all system power
the lack of threads reduced power consumption, but in intel cpus the power usage is absurd, do not forget that a 14900k could waste close to 400 watts, 400 watts for a cpu
nothing to praise here
wen they reach or surpass amd power consumption levels wthout removing the hyperthread part, you will have something to feel interested in, we need tests to show us if it is a real cpu power reduction or if it was a all system reduction, mixed with ram, gpu, psu, numbers dekivered by intel means nothing
@@n.d.n.e1805 no, you are confusing tdp, total power and heat generated, wait for the reviews from people who can do real measurements
Ah yes, my favorite game, Metro: Departure
That's all Intel users moving over to AMD 🤣
Yes that's a joke, I know AMD is just as shit with its zen5% never ending cope spiral.
I prefer _Bec De Corbin 0.4 Lakh: Void Maritime, the sequel_ and _Complete Vendetta: Egyptian King_ and _Scarlet Deceased Penitence: Electric boogaloo_
yes thats what exodus means
I actually looked it up... and found a bus schedule. What can I say --- I'm _really_ behind on AAA games.
Cant believe in 6 months the entire cpu industry tumbled down. From 13th-14th gen fiasco, stupid snapdragon x elite prices, zen 5% on windows, 285k gen turning off hyper threading and cant even beat 2 year old 7800x3d. Ryzen 7000 was peak of this first half of decade.
Woah Calm down there, 9800X3D ain't out yet
Seeing these slides shows Intel is as it always has been, a scumbag. I'd love to think AMD must have a plan and that's why it gave us shitty zen 5 launch. But I have seen how incompetent AMD can be. And Jensen our balls in a vice, ripping us off, and is swimming in leather jackets. This is just getting sadder by the day
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat i doubt its goin to be good. You can bet me on that.
Its goin to have trend like 1080 Ti vs 2080 value to perf.
7800x3d value to perf goin to be better than any new chip.. Because at this point, AMD can do whatever they want and people still buy it. SPECIALLY their x3d. Real Higher Perf.
@@Steel0079 People seem to forget what AMD was back in the days.
@@michaelbuto305if only the 7800x3d stock holds, I doubt it would go down in price, just like 9900k. Whatever 9800x3d performance, people would be choosing it, unless they are okay with used or wait until 7700x3d comes out.
Intel's new Ass Leak processor
It only worse in gaming performance, but it has a maximum power draw of 250 watts compared to the 14900K's 500 watts. Also, it excels in workload tasks, performing approximately 15% better overall.
People: Intel always cheats their processors to consume huge amounts of power, just look at the problems with the 13th and 14th generation
Intel: We created a processor that is slightly slower but consumes half the power of the previous one and will not have the instability problems.
People: How dare you?
The real talent keeps leaving large corporations because of the mindset that the CEO is the most important person. It used to be that the most important people were the customers, then the employees, and then the infrastructure. Innovation was the key to making more money. But now, the customer is always wrong instead of right, and that's where the problem lies. Everything feels like a money grab. Talent is leaving, going to other countries, or going independent. But it's hard for anyone independent to make it. They're just trying to survive. Making it big is more difficult now than it was 20 years ago.
In hindsight it is always easy to see the "easy" idea and think it was easier then.
What we don't see is all the people with ideas that failed 20 years ago.
And today like 20 years ago like 200 years ago, you need an idea that is groundbreaking or at least novel enough, to attract customers and not be easily enough understood so that established businesses can steal the idea from under you.
Yeah, but then the real talent moves to a company that just gets bought out by a megacorp and thrown into the dark closet of non-competition.
We live in a monopolistic world, where large corporations stifle competition in the name of profits and unsustainable growth. That's why shrinkflation exists, out of corporate greed.
@@filip9587 America used to work towards being the best. early 1900. there was Ford Model T when Model T stopped being innovative, it stopped with cable breaks and basic design. Chrysler General Motors came in and laughed at the bottle T being more dynamic and reverse than Forward. We did not connect the east with the West, with the thought process. It's good enough. We made the best steal, faster and better. than everyone else on the planet. Then connected the east with the West and became a real country. Not just a bunch of colonies. but instead, we've got the CEOS who are going, it's good enough. for their next quarry bonus. When the corporation goes out of business, they get a golden parachute. Why would they do anything else Different.
So Intel remade the 14900k with hyper threading disabled and updated microcode so it won't oxidize in 6 months. Got it.
updated node as well, although this didn't seem to help much of anything.
@@Dexion845 dont forget that intel goes from monolithic(raptor) to chiplets(arrowlake)
It is a way bigger achievement than you think. Better multithread score without HT and 500MHz less clock.
tell me you don't know shit about cpus without telling me you don't know shit about cpus!
@@kazuviking multi is as 14700k in other leaks...where u see better?
Built a system with a 7800x3d earlier this year and I’m so happy with the landscape from where I’m sitting…
I bet. It's always comforting when we buy tech to have the next gen be underwhelming, it helps lessen that buyers remorse (or in your case, eliminate entirely lol ) enjoy :-)
Same here man. Pulled the plug on a 7800x3d bundle from Microcenter and a used 4080, couldn't be happier and until we get 4k Ultrawide OLEDs I don't need more performance
@@ezechieldzimeyor4541Pulled the trigger 🤓☝️
Same. My 330€ 7800x3d is now at 438€ ...
Sheeeeit man, I still got my 5800x3D and I'm not mad at all.
My 5800x3d will disagree.
No regrets
Yeah, loving my 5800x3d, snagged one for 320, and have no regrets.
x3d masterace 👊
5800x3d will go down as one the best CPU-skews of all time. It's the 1080Ti of CPUs.
Yup. A 58x3d was only 4 percent behind a 9700x. I'd upgrade to a 78x3d but in not spending 600 bucks for a 20 percent bump at most.
It is not to defend Intel or AMD but the fact that the processors are more efficient is a good thing, especially on Intel's side with the issue of the degradation of generation 13 and 14
That was caused by a factory over-clock that went too far. I'm not touching the new CPU till it's got some time under its belt.
That's because they using tsmc this generation
Yeah, I agree, this is a good step in the right direction for Intel imo. That and I think Daniel missed the point of them comparing the 7950x3d with producitivty and 9950X for gaming - because they're trying to say that "with AMD you have to make a choice between gaming and non gaming, with Intel you don't" which I do think has some merit in creating a chip that can do both in equal measures.
Arrow Lake may not be incredibly exciting in terms of pushing performance boundaries but at this point I don't think they should.
@ridleyroid9060 you're not having to make a choice though , 7950X3D is no slouch in productivity and 9950X is a fine gaming CPU.
It's taking them both in there worst case scenario to try to pump itself up.
Reality is that's it's slower than a 7950X3D in gaming and slower than a 9950X for productivity.
They use TSMC for years now. That's because Intel's own foundry is facing very serious challenges. This isn't new people: Intel stopped with their 'Tick-Tock’ strategy in 2016... TSMC is by far the best foundry for GPU's and CPU's. Only exception is AMD with their CPU'S but let's be serious here: AMD is smooth sailing instead of pushing the Sillicon to the absolute limit... 😅
Think about it, this also requires a new mobo once again and you are not getting any performance increase at all , with all the money you spent. This is just plain stupid. Amd at least has the x3d on their sleeve, as a panic button and they seem to be pressing it sooner...
AMD doesn't panic regarding DIY gaming products. It's a relatively small part of their business. Their lack of focus on this segment definitely shows up sometimes in some of the out-of-touch decisions which get made regarding this segment.
If you haven't upgraded for a few generations you will still require a new mobo, so what's your point? Not everybody throw away their money every year and is sitting on Intel 14th gen, you know. So, if Intel 15th gen matches the i9-14900K while being reasonable priced at launch and offers much better efficiency then I'll take it. There should also be other benefits depending on thew new chipset and speed, timings, core usage et cetera.
Seriously, there are too many spoiled people out there expecting a 10-20% performance jump every year. That shit just isn't realistic.
@@chrisfofficial go tell that to the stock market 🤣
Dude. This will be good CPU for people sitting on old PCs.
Upgrading every year is stupid anyway.
Yea and even vanilla 9950 is faster in many workloads thats not gaming, this is slower in multicore lol
That last comment, about how GPUs keep getting wider while CPUs aren't really keeping up is relevant, but keep in mind that the biggest GPU is also a part with a $1,600 MSRP. Yes, the memory, board etc. adds cost, but that's still a LOT more money than can reasonably be charged for a desktop CPU aimed at gamers.
I've been saying for a while that we need a proper HEDT platform again. The i9 Extreme series and the original Threadripper were good choices for high-end gamers when they were new, but now HEDT has been replaced by overpriced workstation/"server lite" platforms that can't match mainstream desktop CPUs in per-core performance. Very few games will ever benefit from more than 16 cores/32 threads, but many games really benefit from higher RAM bandwidth, so having a high-end 16-core quad-channel CPU with its clocks pushed to the limit, tons of cache, and a low-latency interconnect, could be great.
@@nathangamble125Core i9 Extreme and Threadripper were NEVER good for high-end gamers! They were ALWAYS slower in gaming than consumer parts. Sometimes significantly so. HEDT for gamers is a stupid, fundamentally flawed concept. Modern games don't need bigger, wider CPU's with more cores. They also don't need more memory bandwidth. (Cache bandwidth yes, memory bandwidth no). They need faster CPU cores themselves.
Zen 5% vs Core Ultra -5%
What a disappointing generation.
If anyone didn't believe in Moores Law being dead at this point, welp they should just look at these new trash CPU launches.
Going to wait for 9800x3d micro center bundle I guess.
Im going to wait for Intel a18 chip that has 3D vcache
Given how the 14th gen was factory overclocked to destruction, that step back was mandatory...
The 14th gen is the delayed 13th gen (making the 13th gen we ended up with essentially rebadged 12th gen), and Intel have always said this generation would be about improved energy efficiency. So this is absolutely not a surprise, it's been in the pipeline for two years.
No the pcores were much better quality then alder lake( much higher clocks) and low ring speed fixed on 13th gen.
The RTX 5090 won't like this.
Why Tho? 4k never needed an overpowered CPU anyways
@@felipereis2009That is false you need a powerful CPU even at 4k or else the 4090 or 5090 will be CPU bottlenecked.
@@ZackSNetwork ruclips.net/video/P3mdmu76_-E/видео.html
@@ZackSNetwork a i5 is a powerful cpu to you?
@@ZackSNetwork ruclips.net/video/nRc7agV2FLA/видео.html
No wonder they changed the naming scheme going from 14 to 15th gen would imply a performance difference
No, they've had no performance gains on their prior naming scheme before. The new name has everything to do with AI
13th gen to 14gen had fuck all performance increase but they still changed the naming
@@faus2417 Not entirely true, they bumped the clock a couple of hundred MHz, otherwise it's the same. So there is a performance increase but only from the clock speed and not the architecture and maybe some slight optimisations.
It only worse in gaming performance, but it has a maximum power draw of 250 watts compared to the 14900K's 500 watts. Also, it better in workload tasks, performing approximately 15% better overall.
You can make your own Ultra 9 285K at home, just underclock 14900K
why would you have a i9 at home after all the crap intel did the last 2 years?
what???? 14900k at home ???? why , you better get home insurance then ,
@@parm2-x7h and live near the fire station
But then you get worse workload performance. The 285K approximately 15% better overall in workload task
Zen 5%
i9 2.85%
RTX 5090$
RX 88.00%
I guess if it's like a 14900k and doesn't self destruct that's a win.
Pretty low bar, tbh
It's definitely a win for Intel. For the next generation after that, AMD would have no significant lead anymore, they threw that away with Zen 5
@@blenderalien wait for 3d bud. (at least in gaming)
@@bconxept9800x3D most likely won't be worth it and only a little better than its predecessor. 7800x3d still rules
@@blenderalien I don't know, man... Zen 5 (9950x) is +~20% over Zen 4 (7950x) for me (Vray rendering). That's really good. And for gaming, the 9800x3d should be 10%+ over the 7800x3d easy 🤷🏻♂️ All other parts are total meh.
That's crazy. AMD shouldn't even release the 9800X3D yet. The 7800X3D launched to compete with 13th Gen Intel. Since then, its beaten 13th gen intel, 14th gen intel, allegedly 15th gen intel, and base 9000 zen 5. That's crazy. Has to go down as the greatest CPU of all time.
Has to? It basically is by any degree.
This and the GTX 1080 Ti are easily the best pieces of silicon in a generation.
7800x3D pricing already rising due to 13-14th gen instability issue and ryzen 9000 underwhelming launch, consumer wise they should release it sooner as it will bring the demand for 7800x3d down, but yeah from marketing pov, delaying it will bring them more profit by selling 7800x3d above msrp.
There is some pretty tangible arguments that Zen 5 might respond better to V-Cache than Zen 4 did. And we know for sure that AMD is jumping node for the V-Cache chiplet. See the latest episode from High Yields channel if you want to see for yourself.
@andersjjensen I'm not saying it won't be better. I'm hoping it is better because I would sell my 7800X3D and buy a 9800X3D as long as it was 15 or 20% faster. Anything less and I won't bother. I'm just saying that there's no reason for amd to release it yet since their last gen king is still the current gen king.
CPUs aren't the limiting factor for most gamers anyway.
Intel 12900K for 260 bucks with a solid MB is looking pretty good for most people building a new Intel system
Looks like sticking with the 7800X3D or buying a 9800X3D are the options for folks buying 5080's or 5090's.
Amusing to see that Intel is playing the same weird comparisons that AMD got called out for.
Why 12900 vs a 12700?
Intel hired some of amd's marketing people so no wonder there lol. Same idiots making charts with zero knowledge.
@@Blobertbigly I picked a 12900 because I saw the price in an ad earlier today. At 160 dollars, the 12700 is an even better CPU for my example. It certainly more cost effective than a 330 dollar 14700 or Core Ultra 7 265KF.
There just isn't a reason for most gamers to buy a pricy CPU and the gamers who do have a reason should buy an 9800X3D when it comes out
$400 12900k microcenter bundle is amazing.
Yeah so few people are buying shittel nowadays that i can get a 12900KS for the same price of a 7700/7700X. And entry/mid tier z790 mobos have become dirt cheap as well.
This is not a "Let's improve the gaming performance of our chips" generation, but this is certainly a "Let's improve the energy efficiency of our chips" generation, especially for Intel. Maybe, just like AMD, they will allow an increased TDP mode if there's enough backlash for no increase in gaming performance. Although, just like AMD, I don't think that they should do that. Especially with the degradation woes on their last two generations of CPUs.
if they dont do this from the beginning seeing what backlash amd has gotten its kinda gg tbh
The energy savings should be free gains from the lower nm, though.
As someone building a new system from scratch the amd 9000 series just looks better at this point
I'd rather get a 7000 series chip or intel 12th-14th gen cheap at this point.
@@JonWood007 14th? You mean mid-range CPU? High-end will destroy it self with insane voltage.
More efficient... I would F*CKING hope so! It would be difficult for a processor not to be.
That being said, you could get basically the same 80w lower tdp by undervolting and underclocking the 14900k, while seemingly having the same gaming performance as this new processor.
Intel is cooked.
Almost as fast in games, way faster single core speeds lower power draw and 500 MHz lower clocks. That's quite impressive regardless seeing where they come from. Still disappointing for us tho Mut if Amy takes another 2 years to release a next gen and intel doesn't Intel has a whole gen likely faster then AMD. And let's b ehobest first 3 gens Ryzen where garbage too. This is a new design that needs maturing.
AM4, 8 year still going legendary platform was... garbage?
@@odinez7010Intel fans still coping hard 😂
@@pino_de_vogel Wait --- which CPU are you saying has faster single-core performance? That's important to me as I play a lot of older games that have performance issues, presumably due to newer GPUs/GPU drivers.
@@bricaaron3978 there have bin sources that the new 285 has a higher single core performance then the 14900k. the main reason its slower overal is the lack of hyperthreading and slower multi core speeds. This is likely because at multi core they hit a hard power limit rather then letting it boost into insanity. Single core it can boost really high it still low power draw (as can any cpu).
And yeah i plau WoW which is heavily single core limited which is why X3d is insanly powerfull for that game. but the 285 may also be really good for it.
the new naming scheme sucks bad
intel never disapoints with the names lol
@@arch1107 Still better than that AMD naming scheme that their planning to use
@@n.d.n.e1805 no.
The upside is that older hardware remains relatively competitive, particularly in mainstream gaming. I have a premium AM4 X3D build that looks and performs like a beast with a value that grows with every year of use it provides. It's a welcome break in the relentless upgrade cycle.
Of course Daniel knows this, but CPUs can never keep up with GPUs. GPUs just keep creating more cores and that can't hurt developers really because gamers can always turn down settings but if developers start assuming gamers have 8 or 12 cores or 16 cores to work with that can break the game for some guy logging on with 4 cores like most of the world does.
Hopefully it at least won't burn out.
hopefully, or doesnt come rusted, but since this cpu is made by tsmc, not intel, perhaps only microcode is a problem here, intel only designed this cpu, that is intel in 2024
@@arch1107 The A18 won't be made byTSMC it will be intel but it will have 3D vcache
@@n.d.n.e1805 they hope, remember that they just cancelled a couple nodes under a18
if the company ends being sold to qualcomm that road will not happen.
2:52 please let's stop saying that it's welcome to see power draw reductions on DESKTOP. we do NOT care. we want FPS improvements, let's not make excuses for them and let them say "we heard you wanted less power consumption so we delivered" NO we wanted more performance and we did not get it, not from AMD not from INTEL.
Not trying to be a fanboy but "We want more fps" as you've just said, unfortunately not everyone actually and some people do consider power efficiency. The silicon based chip is about to reach physical limitation that making it smaller and faster by significant amount in each generation is very difficult and costly. Also it is worth considering that one of the cause of 13th and 14th gen instability and degradation is due to very high power usage. That would be likely solved in this 15th generation.
Im sure the people with dead or severely crippled 13 and 14 gen intel chips agree with you 👍🏾
Ryzen 90003D save us.
Honestly Ryzen 9-3D SKUs may be the most interesting release this gen as well, if rumors are accurate, it will have dual 3DVC dies meaning the performance inconsistency problem the 7900/7950X3Ds had would be null as a task would be thrown onto either CCD in a 9900X3D or 9950X3D and would function the same for games.
The only major thing to factor (at least versus the 7800X3D and 9800X3D), is CCD Latency which they are working on improving, but at the very least dual-CCD 3DVC would make it a gaming gen on gen increase over 7900X3D and 7950X3D. Heck the regression in MT performance vs 9900X/9950X may be blunted if the rumor of a far less severe clock reduction is true too.
Let's face it, gpus are the limiting factor anyway.
The gap between the best and 20th best CPU in realistic resolutions is practically insignificant.
The real money is in the datacentre. Intel and AMD are focused on that
Thanks for the analysis, Daniel. It seems the most interesting thing about this new series of processors is the potential power efficiency improvement. The ridiculous power draw of Intel 13th/14th gen saw me switch to AMD on most recent build almost due to that alone (this was before the Intel CPU self-immolation problem went nu-ku-lar)
Will be curious to see how the new part stacks up in independent "bemching" against the (now microcode nerfed) 14900K, the 9950X and 7800X3D
- I'd especially like to see the actual difference in power consumption b/w new part and 14900K from independent tests
- Also of course, curious how good or bad the new part fares with independent tests for gaming and productivity vs current equivalent parts
Picked up a 7950X3D early this year for what 7800X3D is going for now. Love this chip. Total beast for gaming
Same, I nabbed 1 last week for €490. Waiting on delivery now. Best gaming cpu, 1 of the best productivity cpu's, sips power while gaming and only uses 150w when maxed out for productivity. Now to wait to be disappointed by the 5080.
@@mojojojo6292 5090 or go home. LOL.
@@mojojojo6292technically not the best gaming CPU, but we are splitting hairs.
@@sammyflinders it is when scheduling works properly. It boosts slightly higher than the 7800x3d.
If core parking works properly it's really, really fast (r9 7950 x3d) and with the windows update ryzen 7000 series gets a uptick in performance
I have old r7 5800x cpu and looking for upgrade.Any ideas?
I'm waiting for X3D...
how does every new gen sound more and more disappointing than the last?
because amd and intel literally managed to launch cpus with worse performance than old cpus.
Because US law forces companies to chase profits and appease shareholders.
Because we are getting closer and closer to physical limits of silicon. At the moment, we'd really be better off if we spent an additional year or two in research, rather than try and push out a +20% generation every 1.5 years. But that is not what the market demands.
@@Rainbows4BloodThe trend is definitely changing so you are right, its inevitable.
@@Rainbows4Blood theyve been researching alternate substrates since the late 90s at least because thats when i first heard of graphene and other variants back in old pc mags. its not as easy as throwing a couple more years at the problem.
9800X3D=7800X3D+%10(%5 from clock speed increase, %3 from IPC and %2 from improved V-Cache)
it's also more like a mini EPYC as the cache will assist in multi-threaded tasks as well.
This was going to be the generation that would cause me to upgrade but now I think I will just stick with my Atari 800 for a few more years.
ill keep my trusty 8008 for another 50 years
I remember people commenting on the first videos about Zen5 that "more efficiency for the same performance is great!", before it all got debunked. I wonder if these people will show up here again for Intel. I don't expect them to obv. 🙃
If any of this is true and not just marketing bs, it shows that there were very little actual architectural improvements in those last couple of gens and they were basically just using a crowbar to pump up voltage & wattage. It would be a step in the right direction at least~
I would not be able to tell the difference of the 9950X3D and 7800X3D without a frame counter.
Unless you’re planning to get the best gaming CPU to play games at 1080p, you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference even with a frame counter :)
On one hand, it sucks that X̌ number didn't go up over Y time
On the other hand, for gaming, my processor basically sleeps.
Giving its successor a 15% generational uplift in gaming would mean as much to me as the 5% that's so bothersome now, and as mentioned, the gains in non gaming workloads are more substantial.
We're in a pretty good place with processors for gaming.
Someone who has a 7800x3D can likely ride out this and the next console generation in its entirety.
If you just upgraded to an AMD 5000/7000 or intel 11th/12th gen and have an Nvidia RTX 30/40 or Radeon RX 6000/7000 you are good for another 10 years. Make sure to download drivers, printers, software, Linux distros, windows 7/10 before WW3 breaks out.
Good advice. In some games Linux is even faster than Windows because it replaces heavy method call with method calls to Vulkan 🙂
Yeah, last month I've built a 7950X3D/7900 XTX system (from a R5 3600/RX 580). Words can't describe how satisfied I am with it.
I'm set until I start growing white hair (26 yo at the moment).
Everyone blasted Intel for having low efficiency per watt on the previous series. They improve the power efficiency and people still complain. I guess people don't know what they want.
Most of the 'gamers' only sees fps. It can be proven by the release of new rtx 30 series people sees it as a good generational uplift raw performance despite consumes WAY more wattage.
at this point 9800X3D is the final save we need
It won’t be tho. Don’t u see the pattern here?
Based on the performance of Intel's latest generation of CPUs and AMD's already released 9000 series CPUs, I don't actually have high expectations for the 9800X3D. Unless AMD has truly made some kind of breakthrough in technology in just the past few months.
Our Lord & Savior is the 7800x3d
9800x3d should be 10-15% faster than than 7800x3d, mainly due to 5.3-5.5 ghz it should reach
need? you gonna die if your game doesn't run faster?
Memory bandwidth is 10gbs faster, ddr5 standard is up from 5600 to 6400. We have no idea how that will effect xmp and will it do stable xmp on 4 slots. We can’t really compare yet.
As far as 14900k if you don’t waste your time with hyper threading and turn off half the e-cores you can hold a much faster clock speed and get better gaming performance.
It says max speed at the last slide. Also keep in mind that Arrow lake reuses Icelake IO die. it could be the limiting factor.
264 fps vs 261 fps, IN WHAT? Seriously what does it even mean. Is it a game, a combination of many games or just something they pulled out of their bum?
It says "Flat average" so I guess that's their average FPS... but take anything what Intel claims with a grain of salt.
I have 12th gen intel and I feel lucky. I dodged the 13th/14th gen failing issues, and now my CPU gets to stay relevant for an extra year due to stagnant CPU tech
intel stagnant, amd kept pushing, x3d will push more, and amd has already the next gen cpus on testing stage, untel will sell a cpu made by tsmc, a fab pays to another fab to make their cpus.
if it use less power, don't need a power station, don't fry, need a fridge to cool it = good news.
no, look again, it is being mentioned all system power consumption, not the cpu, we dont know numbers here, not the cpu ones, if it goes slower and not sure if it comes with less cores, you get less at what price?
reviews for this thing will destroy it, if it doesnt destroy itself lke 14th gen does
will amd release the x3ds faster now to capitalize or will they take even longer since the intel new gen is doodoo?
Look local sellers. Are the 7800x3d out, or do they still sell them?
If they are out… release earlier. If you still can buy 7800… no need to hurry!
I'm gonna be honest, I think this a good move. The 14th gen is already fast enough. Similar performance while being more efficient and not blowing itself up is probably better than chasing more and having another disaster on their hands.
LOL yes yes very fast on loosing to amd r7 7800x3d
@@netsoldier363 PCs are built for more than just gayming.
@@netsoldier363 i mean thats okay depending on the price right?
@@netsoldier363 Not everyone games 🤡 Gaming is the only thing that X3D exceeds in
I don't even think gamers with a 4090 game in 1080p so at 4k intel will be fine.
I’m not surprised this is happening. Intel is on a new node process. Along with them prioritizing efficiency and also a brand new immature architecture. It’s best to wait and see how things go after release. Regardless this is a skip generation for me the 16th gen should be amazing.
The next generation is always amazing, according to most people😂😂😂
Yeah we said the same when 14th gen came out...
@@laszlozsurka899114th Gen was a refresh not a next generation. A simple bios settings change prevents the CPU from pushing tons of volts into the core and causing degradation.
@@DrewDragoon12th Gen was superior to 11th Gen. 13th Gen was superior to 12th Gen. so use common sense and stop trying to troll.
@@ZackSNetwork 285K is inferior to the old 10nm 14900K despite being a new architecture and generation. I bet the reason why Arrow to the knee Lake performs so bad is because Intel saw how much of a flop Zen 5% was.
A name change won't change the fact they're still using the P6 microarchitecture from 1995 and there is nothing left to squeeze out of it. The slight power consumption reduction is due to dropping HT. And they were pretty much forced to because of the silicon degradation issues.
Intel is using AMD64
Intel not missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity
No that's radeon
Yeah.. that's amd's thing. Intel just has shit products. 😂😂
is process lassoed to single CCD 7950x3d as performant as 7800x3d in games?
Of course. It’ll actually be faster because of the higher clock speed.
@@PowellCat745 No.
@@iulianjercan9787 I generally advise those who have never used those CPUs to not comment on it.
Air coolers will never die. Cope harder liquid cooling bros.
Energy efficiency is the only valid measure. How much can a processor do with X watts. Simple.
Some of us don't care about power consumption. I certainly don't. Unless you're gaming 24x7, it's just a couple hundred dollars a year.
@@quademasters249 I'm not interested in what children think. I'm talking about science and measurement. Get back to your toys, little boy.
(unless we're talking about gpus of course)
It seems that intel has learn a bit from theirs and amd mistake. this slide showing it a bit lower than 14900k, we know most review will be testing at OC configuration so it will be a bit better. what im more interested is what intel max ram speed is, in the slide it shown 6400mhz. does this mean that ARL even with intel foveros packing still limited to slower DDR5 or is that because they were using ICL IO die
To be fair to AMD though the Advertised 9000 series CPU's weren't designed for gaming, to criticize AMD though they shouldn't have advertised them as such as everyone knows the X3D ones are the gaming ones and the 9000 series ones shouldn't have been compared tot he X3D 7000 series at all.
They need to be a lot more careful about the benchmarks they release, and with managing expectations for sure.
Then again, Zen 5 is already about 12% faster than Zen 4 in CPU demanding games on Linux, and Linux has become a totally viable operating system for gaming, especially because SteamOS is basically just a special version of Linux.
People should also keep in mind that it is possible that as software becomes better optimized for Zen 5's new architecture when running games on Windows, gaming performance (and performance in many other applications) could continue to improve vs. Zen 4. Zen 5 has a lot of changes and new architectural features, and it's completely typical for it to take a long time before some types of changes to an architecture become well optimized for. The problem with this is that it can actually take so long in some cases, that sometimes it's not until multiple generations of a chip have included a new architectural feature that a wide range of applications are getting well optimized for it. Some of the new features introduced in Zen 5 might not start being very useful for gaming until after AM5 has been replaced with a new motherboard platform.
You only have to look at the example of multi-threading, which wasn't really useful in games for an extremely long time after it was first introduced.
@@syncmonism Where'd you get those linux numbers? I'd be interested to see some linux benchmarks
I just got a Ryzen 5 5500 for 80 bucks and there's not a single game that I cannot play using an RTX 2060 6GB, undervolted and overclocked both to super fast, OS installed on a samsung 980 pro nvme 1TB. This computer is faster than my previous high end intel build from 2018,(i7 8700k w/ GTX 1080 ti.) My whole build is just a placeholder and seeing how cheap I could get a decent working computer, it's total cost is less than an Intel CPU by itself, and I'm glad I didn't waste my money on any high end stuff right now. I'm not even far behind it now, but for a little bit more cash I can swap out to the 5700X3d or 5800X3d and be within 15% of the top gaming CPU's, and I don't think they're going to get much faster any time soon. Only certain games will see the difference, super CPU bound titles like escape from tarkov, arma, and stuff like flight simulators stuff like that etc.
AT least the newer intel processors will hopefully not overclock themselves to death.
Also no serious gamer would ever buy a non-x3d AMD processor, so wait till the 9000 series X3D CPUs come out before drawing a conclusion on how gaming performance is disappointing for this gen.
X3D is only worth it at the high end tbqh. They generally cost $450 at launch and drop maybe to $300-350 at best. Only cheap X3D processor is the 5700X3D and you can get non X3D processors like the 7700x or 12900k/13600k/14600k for not much more on newer platforms.
I've been looking at the Z890 motherboards, and I keep hearing rumors of "crazy overclocking capabilities", but I'm skeptical. 14900k is stable at 6.1 to 6.2 Ghz. 285k would have to have significant overclocking, but with less power I'm skeptical. However, the motherboard capabilites are significantly upgraded for everything, and that will make it better than 14900k. HOWEVER... I heard another rumor of "raptor lake relaunch" on a z890 motherboard, but it's hard to find info on it. If that is the case, then you get a 14900k on a significantly better motherboard with increased overclocking capabilities. All of this is rumors though so I can't confirm until we find out the overclock numbers. It's probably just nominal increases, but the DDR5 will continue to grow and will have less latency on new boards at higher speeds.
So its basically a 14900k they are calling 15 gen.The difference is lower wattage?And less heat maybe.lol.
Watt in -> heat out, so yes, if the power consumption is lower it will be cooler, assuming same cpu cooler/fan speed.
I'm still excited to see what Intel brings up. I'm waiting for the reviews thinking maybe possibly I might build another box. But that depends on what AMD X3d chips come up with. Might surprise us all and blow the 7800X3d away. Thanks.
Gamers are really spoilt these days. I grew up in an era where we played starfox at sub 10fps on a grainy 80s tv where the console was plugged into the aerial port and loved it. Yes I agree that Nvidia can offer better value - esp with the £300-£500 midrange where many gamers reside - in areas like RAM allocation and bandwidth ..but I think that there is good competition from AMD in this range also. Hardware lasts longer these days you can still game pretty well on an 8yr old 1070 for example. Back in the 2000s you literally had to bin your computer after 2-3yrs because it became obsolete
Intel is a company in turmoil, It’s understandable they need to stabilize to survive at this point.
Only Nvidia can significantly improve performance; however, the price of Nvidia new products will also rise significantly.
We already got their price jump last gen, why does everyone think it’ll happen again
Feeling smug sitting here with my 7800X3D
17:41 the 285K has the same power limit as the 14900K
What's hilarious is that the 285k still has a PL2 rating of 250 watts so while it'll probably be more efficient than the 14900k that's not saying much since the 14900k has atrocious efficiency.
Well apparently Arrow Lake is going to be 7nm junk still so no wonder (thats ryzen 5000 from 4 years ago)
@@kerotomas1 No ARL is N3B. It’s a node ahead of Zen 5 and two nodes ahead of Intel 7.
@@PowellCat745 I'm pretty sure it won't be 3nm. (i'm thinking that's laptop only) You can't have that good node and still pull 250 watts. The math doesn't math. It should be even more efficient than Zen 5 and apparently it will be far from it.
techpowerup writes, and I quote: "Intel is building the Core Ultra 9 285K on a 7 nm production process, the transistor count is unknown."
How is this arrowlake? it clearly says raptor lake R... Sorta confusing
Intel was honest and is delivering lower power consumption AMD lied and exactly how many consumers are bottlenecked by a 14900K?
Its nice that intel is honest for once after all those that happend last months...
Still rocking a 5800x3d…and a 6800xt. Still happy.
14900k is Intel 7. The arrowlake is probably TSMC silicon. 3 or 4 nm? So not surprised that it's more power efficient, but historically, the fastest consumer CPUs from Intel have been on an older more mature process that they have tuned for performance, not power efficiency. I still use an old 990x when I want to heat my room in the winter.
Dont forget that raptors was also monolithic chips where in arrowlake u got their own chiplet design(node design?)
@@marcinkarpiuk7797 That's true. Intel will also bin or "cherrypick" certain die based on performance characteristics during sort. I suspect AMD and NVDA also do this as well, but there may be more variability between good chips and bad on the Intel process vs TSMC process. TSMC's customers typically want consistency whereas Intel has historically started a process node earlier at lower yield, but been able to bin parts according to performance and health for different market segments.
@@i486DX66 3nm, so more expensive silicon and more expensive chiplet packaging design than Ryzen
Weeell... Intel claimed that while using standard wattage the results are those. But... we need to look further to the extreeme power usage that has been quite hidden. Just one week left.
It may be the case that the upcoming Intel "Arrow Lake" processors are not faster per se than current "Raptor Lake", but there are very important aspects that people are not (yet!) noticing:
1. They don't use Hyper Threading. This is very advantageous, not just for far better temperatures and power consumption, but also for far less latency than before - gaming will benefit with this.
2. You may have noticed that the first benchmark leaks suggest that, even without Hyper-Threading, the Core Ultra 9 P-Cores are as fast as the Raptor Lake i9 14900K P-Cores WITH Hyper-Threading (8c/16t), which means then that these new Intel CPUs may well be the strongest per-core performance chips ever produced, so far.
3. Add to that the support for DDR5 +10000 MT/s and, for sure, it'll be a very considerable improvement.
The delusional Intel fanboy copium is real. 🤣
@@Cooe. ^^ aah yes, the typical AMturD fanboy reaction. 😊
@@T595955i 🤦 The official numbers are literally right in front of you idiot. Not my fault you're dyslexic. 🤷 And AM5 also supports CUDIMM removing any advantage Intel would have possibly got there. Also, hyper-threading was NOT removed in Arrow Lake. It was just turned off because it wasn't working right. All the SMT structures are still present in the Lion Cove core, eliminating much of the latency advantage that actually ripping them out would have provided.
@@T595955i The official numbers are right in front of you ignoramus. Not my fault you're severely dyslexic. 🤷 And AM5 also supports CUDIMM's removing any advantage Intel would have had there. Also, Arrow Lake did NOT remove hyper-threading! It's just disabled because they couldn't get it working right and it was going to be actually ditched/removed a generation later with Panther Cove. All the SMT structures are still present in AL's Lion Cove cores, they just aren't used. Removing much of the latency advantage you'd get from ACTUALLY removing all those transistors.
@@T595955i The official numbers are right in front of you dingus. 🤦 Not my fault you're severely dyslexic. 🤷 And AM5 also supports CUDIMM's removing any advantage Intel would have had there. Also, Arrow Lake did NOT remove hyper-threading! It's just disabled because they couldn't get it working right and it was going to be actually ditched/removed a generation later with Panther Cove. All the SMT structures are still present in AL's Lion Cove cores, they just aren't used. Removing much of the latency advantage you'd get from ACTUALLY removing all those transistors.
I wouldn't say they could have taken the crown with "any meaningful increase". Since 24h2 and Intel running lower power the 7800x3d is 10 to 15 per cent faster than 14900k. And worst case the 9800x3d will be a 5 per cent uplift. So intel would still need 18 to 20 per cent uplift to tie 9000x3d
Why intel knows that IPC its the "secret" to gaming performance which is best factor for desktop cpus, and keeps investing on Ecores, on top they know cache stacking being a TSMC/AMD exclusive and major deciding factor fpr gaming perf ,why do they keeping going this way instead of populationg their die space with Pcores and cache only its beyond me, Intel needs to change, their unique pursuit of "efficiency" is clearly not working in idle or full load. Its sad seeing Intel destroy itself...Having a simple die with 6/8 cores would allow much better efficiency and voltage which wouldnt lead to the drama we seen lately on top the die space of LGA 1700 is bigger then AM5 just not well used...
Could simply be a case of AMD has the space locked up with enough patents, that Intel can't find a legal way to reproduce it?
But the 13th and 14th generation are not really usable. Sure, they can go faster, but then they die in less than a year.
gladfully mine works perfect for allmost 2years now.. 🙄
Your wrong my 13600k is 1 1/2 years old zero problems
too bad, i was hoping this one can actually run monster hunter wilds
What i find interesting is that intel found the 285k on par with the 14900k in cyberpunk 2077 when using APO; but when they compared it to 7950x3d they found the 285k 21% slower; and we all know that 14900k itself is not 21% slower than 7800x3d especially in cyberpunk; and 7950x3d usually performs slower than 7800x3d; and even in the slides against the 7950x3d they didn t mention that 285k is using APO; so it will be really interesting to see what the real performance of ARL is; also for now cyberpunk doesn t have APO for 14th gen and other cpus; 12 new games games will be added for APO list once ARL launches; which include cs2 fortnite and cyberpunk 2077; so it will be interesting to see how good the cpus were supposed to actually perform
BooHoo, How many 4090 users need a better CPU?Seriously?Whos out in the cold here and whats the real problem?
Theres large chance that if u are 4090 owner u will be soon 5090 owner 😉
marcikarpiuk.......I'm sure some 4090 users will upgrade but once again,its will be a small number and the world doesn't revolve around the niche consumer or gamers Most professional applications requiring a powerful GPU will do just dandy with the CPUs available Professionals can run Xeons and Thread rippers.
A lot of people who wants to upgrade to a 5090 or already owns a 4090.
But it has better supprt for faster CUDIMM, will it perform better in victoria 3, cities skyline 2 and anno 1800?
I think it's good that manufacturers focus on efficiency. At this point we're talking over abstract, barely meaningful percentage increases with games running at like 500 FPS. We have more performance than we know what to do with.
Not true in the slightest.
Whenever we see CPU benchmarks, they're running games like CS, Fortnite or Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 1080p low with a 4090, 120-200 FPS. Aside from notoriously poorly optimized games, what can't you run at below 60 or even 120 FPS with current high end parts?
And this is gaming performance. Expect a big loss in multithreading... because of no multithreading
Single core perfomance was about even, multicore performance increased. That is what all the leaks from engineering and qualification samples have been saying.
So we already knew this.
As a 14900k user, I'm ok with this, I didn't expect the new flagship would be massively better even with the focus on AI... I made the right call with getting a 14900k and sticking with it. Had my CPU for a month before I updated my Bios with the Microcode update. Never had a problem since day one. I was trying to hold out for the new core Ultras, but Work called and I needed the best possible CPU at the time for 3D animation and rendering on a consumer desktop. Pair with a 4090 and this thing is fast in blender and unreal engine.
I have a 1300wat PSU so I'm good on power... I wouldn't mind if my parts used less power but that's ok, I could always limit the power. I built this PC with the thought that I would have it for the next 5-10 years like my last PC, so I made my bed I have to sleep in it, happy to know I have a 5-year warranty on my 14900k at least that gives me peace of mind on any issues.
If I where to build a new PC build right now? I would wait for the 5090 and the core ultras or the X3D chips next year. My last PC I had a intel I7 970 and that thing lasted me from 2010 all the way until 2021, that's why I went with Intel again say what you want they were top dog for a reason for many years their CPU last a long time, this whole voltage issue was the first time they made a major mistake or didn't do enough testing or didn't let it be clear what the default settings should be on the motherboards. My next PC- build will be some time in 2029 around the time we will have new consoles that will warrant new PC hardware.
I was planning on upgrading from my faithful skylake i7 6700 to arrowlake but now I ask myself, what is the point. I'm not paying hundreds of pounds to get something that isn't even on parr with the previous generation. Does this also apply to the i7 15700k ( sorry, im not calling it it's new name )?
I passed up on a $320 and $360 7800x3d for this 🤦🏻♂️. Guess I wait for AMD and the 9800x3d….
Now i'm even more interested in Bartlett Lake coming out next year, it's up to 12 P Raptor Lake cores(no E-cores), it should beat both the 7800X3D and the 285K.
Plus it's on Lga1700, not the new Lga1851.
What make you think that +4 cores would beat the 7800x3d?
@@nempk1817 bc these extra 4 cores isn't on another "CCD" like Ryzen and the 10900k was better than the 11900k most of the time, in games, even with the IPC and frequency increase from Rocket Lake.
Also APO shows how good these cpus can be and the 12 core should use nowhere near the same power as the 14900k.
Looks like Intel is living the AMD Bulldozer era
You don't know what you are talking about.
@@GreyDeathVaccine It seems like you know what youre talking about.
16:25 - Everything happens "sooner than later", that's just how time works. I believe the expression you were looking for there was "sooner *_rather than_* later". 😜
Meteor lake was supposed to be like this and it didnt happen at all. This eill be the same. Slightly better power efficiency
What's crazy is that Meteor Lake was moving from 10nm to Intel 4, still lost to Raptor Lake and got canceled, now one year later Arrow Lake moved to TSMC 3nm and still losing to Raptor Lake after two node jumps.
@@lharsay cus Intel is in their IBM days. Still around but irrelevant
To be fair CPU’s only benefit you at 1080p, beyond that it’s irrelevant due to be GPU bound.
Wrong
People have been bitching about Intel power consumption forever and when you finally get good news on that front, and honest performance numbers, you keep right on bitching!
They should have done it on a generation that didn't require a new motherboard
Because the high power usage shouldn't have existed to begin with. Wow gamers are mad the next generation architecture is WORSE than last gen, but hey, at least Intel is doing 1 thing they should have been doing the whole time now! Go Intel!
Yep,listen to the complaints and whats the odds their running a GPU that requires a higher end CPU?Zero I'd bet
No one bitching about 7800x3d
Well i guess Intel just doesnt have that touch anymore to make a product that silence everyone. Even intel fanbois lick 7800x3d feet.
@@DrewDragoon what good would that do? that people can upgrade from a 7800x to a 9800x because we saw how that went
I am not suprised. As we move to smaller nodes, we are on the verge of a physics cap (unless we move to a new material), diminishing returns and increasing problems of dark silicon.