Thanks Rupert, this was an epiphany for me. Wow, I get it. At first it was difficult to let go of the concept that God is aware of my struggles and working to improve me. But once I recognized that God can’t be separate, then the entire storyline began to disappear, revealing the oneness that was always here. Mind boggling, but thank you so much.
Learn to stop thinking. Practice not naming, labeling, judging, analyzing. I close my eyes and visualize a cat standing over a hole in the ground waiting for the mouse to come out. The cat has no vocabulary, no thoughts, the cat is not thinking, so there is no time. Then I practice opening my eyes and being the cat. Not labeling, naming, judging, no thoughts. Time stops, I no longer memory trip in the past, or lean into the future. I am just in the present moment . Just pure awareness, connected to the oneness of consciousness. The nature of oneness is a vibrational peace, joy , bliss and love. I lose all fear of death and all desire for want. I know that that oneness is what I am and that everyone else is the same oneness. Knowing the oneness of others and my own oneness is called LOvE. Teach yourself to stop thinking, stop the little voice in your head and the vibrational peace , joy , bliss , love and the present moment will all follow.
That our finite minds have questions/don’t know/can’t quite grasp is avidya, commonly called ignorance. That ignorance is Maya. The only way to counter ignorance is through knowledge and so deeply understood that the mind knows beyond doubt, and surrenders/accepts totally that knowing. This was a great discussion, with a deep learning to be had from it
I believe the infinite has attributes we can not fathom. He even admits that the finite can not know the infinite. I respect his attempt to explain reality but always remember he is just one perspective.
These wonderfully clear explanations have given me a new perspective on the infinite, the finite and the subject-object relationship. I feel deeply impressed and moved. Thank you very much.
True spiritual enlightenment is the recognition of eternity in the heart. It is unification with God. Non-duality in this overly cerebral sense is just more gratification for the mind and only serves to deepen ignorance. Surrender the mind to the heart, drop all questions and disappear into effortlessness. Then and only then will you know the truth behind the word God, and be fully awake to the true nature of Self. Rupert is just the blind leading the blind.
Part of the problem is that the mind seeks clarity , certainty, and validation, where there can be none. The question is unanswerable because the question arises from an expectation of a presumptuous all or nothing, polarized reply
Words and ideas are limited to a sliver of reality, pointing towards the Truth that is beyond such intellectualization. Surrendering the finite mind seems the way, as words may be insufficient to convey.
Rupert Spira 🙏 The infinite (real) can't know the finite (unreal) because the real is also unreal. They are both in 'oneness' with one another, meaning the unreal is also real. The infinite & finite - each are part-whole of each other in 'Oneness' of being - there is not a separateness which enables each to perceive or see the other as being a separate & distinct part of the 'Oneness' whole of both. However to paraphrase - _"the infinite knows and knows not, thus it is All-knowing"_ - the Teachings say. 😊🙏🙇♂️🌷
It is only our dualistic mind that operates in the mode "either infinite can or it cannot separate itself, either it can or cannot see us". But nonduality means it can both, at the same time.
The idea that seeing from all perspective amounts to a indecipherable cubist painting for God is as much a projection as equating what we see to be what God sees.
The finite, by its nature, is limited, while the infinite is boundless and unconditioned. The finite is a construct of the mind-temporary, form-based, and subject to change. The infinite, on the other hand, is the vast, formless awareness that encompasses all. From the perspective of pure awareness, the finite cannot be fully known by the infinite because the infinite is not confined by the limitations of time, space, or form. It does not operate within the boundaries that define the finite. Instead, the infinite is the space in which all finite things arise and dissolve, but it itself cannot be captured by any finite concept. In the presence of God and pure awareness, we realize that the finite is only a transient expression within the infinite. It’s like a wave arising in the ocean-although the wave appears distinct, it is not separate from the ocean. Similarly, the finite is an expression of the infinite, but the infinite cannot be contained by it. The finite is merely an aspect of the whole, a passing moment in the eternal flow of being. To try and know the finite through the infinite is to misunderstand the nature of both-the infinite is not something to be known as an object, but to be experienced as the source of all things. True knowledge arises when we stop seeking to know the finite through the limited lens of the mind and instead rest in pure awareness. When we recognize that the infinite is beyond comprehension and cannot be grasped by the mind, we open to the direct experience of it. In this space, the finite no longer needs to be "known" because it is revealed as part of the whole. The infinite is not something to be understood through knowledge; it is something to be lived, experienced, and simply being in the vastness of all that is.
Getting caught up in these inquiries is fun. It's what the ego wants to do. Keep questioning, keep it going. This is what keeps him/her alive. I've already had an awakening and experienced not being me. But the ego will always be there. Just know that's not who you are. There will always be another question. Just let them drift by. Humm that's interesting 🤔 be the observer.
A superior reflection on the Nature of Infinite Reality and how the finite mind CAN'T understand Infinite Reality within its limited purview of "dualistic knowing." As always, thanks Rupert!
To truly know a thing would mean becoming that thing. No one knows what it’s like to be a cat except a cat. And if you asked a cat what it was like to be a cat, it would reply, “me”. The infinite is the source of awareness. It is not impersonal. It is intimately aware of all things at all times. Maybe not in the sense that we finite beings understand, but in the way that infinite awareness understand. For example. Where and why is their love. It’s not a chemical reaction . That chemical reaction is the result of not the cause of. Yet we have this capacity, how was it invented , why does it exist . Maybe it’s a finite expression of a particular infinite energy. Tap into that and you are beginning to feel the oneness of all that exists, has existed, or ever will exist.
The infinite lives through the finite in order to "get to know itself". But how could it be if it "doesn't see the finite" - being un-localized? Perhaps the analogy with seeing is distorting? We finite things do "feel" some phenomena without the need of distance, we need not "see" them to be aware of them. Does the infinite not have some possibilities to know us which we finites cannot understand? Perhaps this subject-object relationships logic is only too human and doesn't apply for the infinite ? Otherwise it seems to me that all the trouble with creation were futile...
Isn't all this just a good riddle ? The mind can't know it, keep finding it.. ohh , even the act of finding it is not going to give it, because it's not a "thing". What a great riddle I say, let's add love, peace and happiness as it's qualities.. ohh wow what a recipe to keep searching.. such frustration!
Rupert has said before, quoting someone else, “if I speak I tell a lie, but if I remain silent I’m a coward”. No words can explain it. Whatever IT is. But they’re all we have to take us to whatever that IT is.
Yes kind of a riddle ~ I dont think we truly act as finite things as when we see out we assume we are finite looking at things but in reality we are the infinite looking but assume we are individual (so our opinions about things are from this individual view - but its false as we are the infinite all along
@@JoePackFunny it doesn't take you too, it's already meant to be there already, so yes , whether Rupert says or whoever says, it could still just be an incredibly good language riddle.
This makes logical sense from the standpoint of the limitations of a human being. But we are talking about God here! Human beings cannot create trillions of galaxies and lifeforms! And if God created these, he at least must have known what they were at the point of creating them. I also remember Rupert saying that God was like "a jazz musician" rather than a "classical musician", ie creating everything that happens on the spin. From the standpoint of our human limitations, how do you create something while blindfolded? This reminds me a bit of sci-fi films in which aliens have two arms and two legs, breathe oxygen and speak perfect English! Or maybe God is a machine with no intelligence that constantly churns random things out and we, on planet Earth, may be the only one of those things that - coincidentally - has any apparent order and meaning?! But a loving God who creates a universe and then runs it "like a jazz musician" must at least know the chord sequence over which to improvise his solos. For me, Rupert's explanation here ties God's hands behind his back and puts a hood over his head.
What Spira does here is defend his vision of none duality with his soul -as always. But if God perceives things completely different from us and doesn't have the capacity to localise as we do, that is dual. Spira contradicts himself. The logical fact is that if we are all part of and made of God, it can localize through us when we are aware of the object. He is misinterpreting none duality. We are all made of the same energy, but vibrating at different frequencies. If God is all the visible energy that exists, it can localize in those who are aware and perceive the world as we do.
1:50 ⚠️♾️oh wow. I've thought about this for so looong. It works like this. Imagine a street with houses. The street is finite and the first house number is 1, every other house receives it's house number in direct relation to house 1. In the infinite there can be NO house 1, because there are already infinite houses before it, therefore, there can be no other street numbers, because they will be unable to reference house 1. To have a house 1, a finite existence must first be establish, from which all other houses numbers reference it. 🙏I would give my kidneys to be able to speak with Rupert for 10 minutes, I have unique simple math equations relating to the finite\infinite, that I would love to discuss. 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 0.9999...God bless and much love and respect always 🙏😇🙏
Okay, lets go into that a little deeper: Finite experience is a subject - object relation. The finite object obviously can be known. Shouldnt the finite subject also be knowable somehow to 'proove' its existance? Of course the subject can not know itself because it can not stand at a distance from itself. So: either some other finite subject experiences the initial subject as an object, or a finite subject does not exist! Has someone ever found that so called subject? I had the experience of "I am" and "becoming". There was a "thing" in Knowing. Nothing more. Subject for me ist perspective. No subject knows, only knowing knows
So if the infinite God cannot know the finite, then God cannot be omniscient. It is the infinite in conjunction with the finite, that completes God and makes God omniscient. This would explain why we(all creation) exists. We are like a reflection of God, existing so God can experience the color of his eyes.(himself). God is the tree God is me God is me, experiencing the tree.
Omnipotence - He has the power to do anything He desires (Job 42:2; Luke 1:37).Omnipresence - He is in all places, all the time (Jer. 23:24; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalm 90:2).Omniscience - He knows all things (1 John 3:20).
I’m glad she asked the question I’ve been wondering about this too. I still don’t understand but I’ll try to explain. My Being/Soul (which is infinite), can’t know my mind? So does this mean that my mind is Ego (false self) totally? Does my Soul not influence my mind/thoughts? I’m currently trying to listen to my intuition which takes a process involving mind, it must include mind at some stage. Can someone help me with this please?
This knowledge of nothing to know as other thing, is pivotal in all structures of mind and psychology of all ages and situations. Probably it is the reality. And everyone should know this. Just great. Infact, everyone should read Upanishads first hand.
First 🎉 i love Rupert ❤ When Ruppert says God has no idea about limitation ! Or God knows nothing about things, Or from the description a hand ! Then of course the question arises who else is there within his infinity who makes these descriptions and thus brings them into appearance within his infinity. If he knows nothing about it Like ruppert says ! But he probably meant ! God knows nothing of things he has not thought up himself ! Or Ruppert ? 😜
My freedom has come from watching my mind ask soooooo many questions, to the point where 'I' have realised that the mind will NEVER run out of questions to ask (it is its job after all) and that most of its subsequent answers are pretty much the same, only disguised as something different, but are only of temporal use. I still ask questions, but they are rarely to do with finding meaning, or peace and its ilk. It seems the 'Isness' of life needs no convincing by the mind. In conclusion.... Pffft, hehe!
It need not take 30 years for the mind to surrender. It just takes the acceptance that the mind asking and answering all these questions is not the right tool to grasp the Infinite. So to just experiment at stopping to try to "understand" the Infinite and what It does or does not do but to just let it in. If that occurs, it is so real no more questions arise. Except perhaps 'how do I experience that again?' that would be a good question. But just letting the Infinite come to us in our seeming finite state rathe than us going on a complicated a search to explain it. The reality of that experience of letting go the effort is far too simple for the mind which loves complexity. That is why it has been called the slayer of the real. It is a duality instrument. Not conducive to appreciating non duality.
Infinite implies there's an end, the moment you talk about numbers it already has a starting point or an ending point, hence infinite, these numbers have no end. The almighty God is above infinite, above numbers. God being God can also experience itself in an above infinite way. Only finite human beings can't understand how the infinite can experience itself. God definitely experiences itself though us, finite beings. But he has other above infinite options to experience itself other than us finite creatures.
GOD or INFINITE INTELLIGENCE is ALL. This is all the knowledge there is and the only ONE to know. What does not exist cannot be known, as it is not here, now, not existing to be known.
So if the infinite God cannot know the finite, then God cannot be omniscient. It is the infinite in conjunction with the finite, that completes God and makes God omniscient. This would explain why we(all creation) exists.
@ GOD, not the conceptual but the actual is the ALONE ONE. This means there is no we, there is no creation. WHAT IS or GOD already is whole, complete. ALL. Nothing can be added to all, nothing can be subtracted from all. This ONE or ALL is omniscient, as IT knows IT is. That’s all the known there is and IT is the only ONE knowing. The INFINITE cannot co-exist with an anything finite, a measure of ITS own absence. ONE cannot know what doesn’t exist. GOD and EXISTENCE are two terms that speak of what is the same ONE, the same ALL.
@@mikey6214 The finite and infinite only appear separate from the perspective of the finite due to its limited perspective of experiencing life with body and mind. The finite never leaves the infinite; it's only from the limited perspective of the finite that it appears so
Sorry but I don't agree . The finite cannot know that infinite . That is right But the infinite can know the finite . A drop of water cannot be aware of the ocean but the ocean can be aware of a drop of water
My question is why is so hard for the finite to know the infinite. And I don’t mean intellectually like 99.9% of those claiming “they” do. Who is the “they” then?
I think what Rupert is trying to explain or clarify is speculative and possibly not true. How could it be that the infinite or God doesn't know the finite (as the lady says). The infinite must know everything because it is everything, even if all finite is an appearance of it. And how could the infinite or God could be good or mercyful, if it wouldn't know anything about his creatures or appearances. This may also be speculative, but feels better and more consistent to my heart and my mind. I wonder if all our questions can be answered on the experiential level. Many answers seem to stay on the conceptional level.
The traditional idea is that the Divine hides from itself in its Creation and sees and rediscovers itself through all its seemingly separate beings; 'the million masks of God'. We are all a viewpoint of the Divine, or Self. What Rupert is saying seems to negate this. Correct me if I'm wrong. What now is the point of the Creation if the Creator knows nothing of it? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but I'm with you Ibrahim - I don't get it and it doesn't ring true.
@@biffin62oneness rests in abstraction and lives through you as a focus point. As an extension you can observe and play, but the whole cannot see any one thing for IT is always whole.
Infinite is a different paradigm..it is the whole. Just like what happens in a dream is at another level of reality. You can't go into yr dream and change the scene.ln the waking reality we can n do things. The infinite is the undifferentiated reality..we are differentiated as minds n bodies. We are part of the whole but unaware of our true identity as the infinite because we are under the influence of maya.. ie ego and mind identity living in a world of duality.
The infinite is Infinite this means it knows all. The finite “ ego” belief of separation doesn’t understand this. The infinite seemingly separated from itself and yet has NOT. The infinite has chosen to experience finite a seemingly separation. There are no limitations for God, but the belief of separation “ ego” seem real. Surrender the finite thoughts, judgments etc. The Wholey Spirit is Whole, there is nothing to do for the “ ego” to do.
I think the answer from this teaching would be that suffering only seems to exist because of identifying with the body and mind (because of ignorance).
@ my difficulties are with why the infinite ( total love) would need to experience anything else, especially if it means suffering and misery no matter how illusionary it may be only so we might go back to being one again, I find it rather cruel and unnecessary.
@ it seems to me that being “infinite love” would exclude the possibility of anything else. If absolute love gets bored it hardly seems to be infinite.
3:00 But if the the infinite cannot separate itself from anything, how does the finite mind even exist? Well, I guess the finite mind is an illusion. And if that is true, then I suppose the infinite mind is illusory as well. Or, one could say that the infinite mind is really nothing, and therefore it could separate itself. Ahh, the existential, paradoxical rabbit hole. This is why words, spoken or written, can never truly explain the ineffable (including ineffable 😉). 🧘🏻♂️
Isn't it an assumption that infinite awareness cannot know something it is not separate from? All the analogies are based on the limitations of the finite mind. Those limitations do not apply to infinite awareness.
7:12 God is the embodiment of truth. Therefore, his limitation is that He cannot be false or untrue. For example 1+1=2, this is God's truth, undoubtedly. However, 1+1=3 is not truth, at all, and God will not be able to accommodate this, it's simply untrue and cannot be , otherwise God will be untrue and everything falls apart. If you are reading this,I know you are God's little child, even at 95, and I know he Loves you very much! 🙏😇♾️
My question is: How does Rupert know, that the Infinite doesn't know the finite? In my understanding of Non-Duality is the Infinite aka consciousness aka reality, reading these words right now, the only knower. There is only one knower. The Infinite aka god has infinite possibilities of perceiving and knowing. That's my understanding.
According to Rupert Spira's philosophy, the statement “The finite cannot be known by the infinite” is actually based on a very deep metaphysical understanding, and although it may seem strange on the surface, it makes sense in a specific context. To understand this view, we need to look at Spira's understanding of consciousness and reality: The Perspective of the Infinite: Spira defines the infinite as pure consciousness or awareness. This pure awareness has no boundaries, forms or objects. The infinite includes everything and is the ground of being of everything. However, “knowing” something usually means being aware of it or perceiving it as an object. The infinite cannot “know” the finite as something separate, since there is nothing other than itself. The Unity of the Finite and the Infinite: In Spira's teaching, the finite (e.g. thoughts, feelings, emotions, objects) is really just an appearance of the infinite. This establishes a relationship in the same way that waves cannot be separated from the ocean. Therefore, the finite cannot be “known” by the infinite because the finite is in fact not separate from the infinite from the beginning. The Problem of Strangeness: This statement turns our classical understanding of “knowing” on its head. In everyday life, knowing something involves perceiving it as a separate entity. But Spira argues that at the core of knowing, something opens itself to awareness through direct experience, without objectification. In this context, the finite cannot be known because it is not an object separate from the infinite, for this would require being a separate thing. This may seem more like a paradox arising from the limits of language. However, according to Spira, the distinction between the finite and the infinite is actually an illusion.
The real mystery is how the infinite came to conceive the finite. The infinite containing all unmanifested potentials naturally conceived the universe and finiteness. It may have taken an infinite "time" or not. For me, the "me" meaning this particular expression of the infinite, focusing on the mystery by "being', by being in the now is where such questions end up. And then, the where is not a place, not a state. Pure beingness, full of mystery.
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Thanks Rupert, this was an epiphany for me. Wow, I get it. At first it was difficult to let go of the concept that God is aware of my struggles and working to improve me. But once I recognized that God can’t be separate, then the entire storyline began to disappear, revealing the oneness that was always here. Mind boggling, but thank you so much.
Finally someone asked this great question. Thank you very much 🙏🏼
Learn to stop thinking. Practice not naming, labeling, judging, analyzing. I close my eyes and visualize a cat standing over a hole in the ground waiting for the mouse to come out. The cat has no vocabulary, no thoughts, the cat is not thinking, so there is no time. Then I practice opening my eyes and being the cat. Not labeling, naming, judging, no thoughts. Time stops, I no longer memory trip in the past, or lean into the future. I am just in the present moment . Just pure awareness, connected to the oneness of consciousness.
The nature of oneness is a vibrational peace, joy , bliss and love. I lose all fear of death and all desire for want. I know that that oneness is what I am and that everyone else is the same oneness. Knowing the oneness of others and my own oneness is called LOvE. Teach yourself to stop thinking, stop the little voice in your head and the vibrational peace , joy , bliss , love and the present moment will all follow.
That our finite minds have questions/don’t know/can’t quite grasp is avidya, commonly called ignorance. That ignorance is Maya. The only way to counter ignorance is through knowledge and so deeply understood that the mind knows beyond doubt, and surrenders/accepts totally that knowing. This was a great discussion, with a deep learning to be had from it
Thank you. Is Mr. Spira not illustrating avidya here? Elaborating on it figuratively?
*Both the Finite and the Infinite are just "Concepts" within The ALL !*
I believe the infinite has attributes we can not fathom. He even admits that the finite can not know the infinite. I respect his attempt to explain reality but always remember he is just one perspective.
These wonderfully clear explanations have given me a new perspective on the infinite, the finite and the subject-object relationship. I feel deeply impressed and moved. Thank you very much.
To be within your body as a whole connected being takes work. Good Luck!
True spiritual enlightenment is the recognition of eternity in the heart. It is unification with God. Non-duality in this overly cerebral sense is just more gratification for the mind and only serves to deepen ignorance. Surrender the mind to the heart, drop all questions and disappear into effortlessness. Then and only then will you know the truth behind the word God, and be fully awake to the true nature of Self. Rupert is just the blind leading the blind.
Part of the problem is that the mind seeks clarity , certainty, and validation, where there can be none. The question is unanswerable because the question arises from an expectation of a presumptuous all or nothing, polarized reply
Wow!
Thank you for asking, and thank you for answering!
My mind also wants to know and explore everything....
🙏💛
This is incredible. Infinite is everywhere at once, everything is always everywhere. You can't single out an event that is always everywhere!
Words and ideas are limited to a sliver of reality, pointing towards the Truth that is beyond such intellectualization. Surrendering the finite mind seems the way, as words may be insufficient to convey.
❤great question
and great answer.
Nothing exist unless there is something else to experience it.
Rupert Spira 🙏
The infinite (real) can't know the finite (unreal) because the real is also unreal. They are both in 'oneness' with one another, meaning the unreal is also real.
The infinite & finite - each are part-whole of each other in 'Oneness' of being - there is not a separateness which enables each to perceive or see the other as being a separate & distinct part of the 'Oneness' whole of both.
However to paraphrase - _"the infinite knows and knows not, thus it is All-knowing"_ - the Teachings say. 😊🙏🙇♂️🌷
It is only our dualistic mind that operates in the mode "either infinite can or it cannot separate itself, either it can or cannot see us". But nonduality means it can both, at the same time.
Rupert spira ❤
Greatest of All Time
Thanks, for a great explanation 😊 Good stuff! 😊🙏 Jai Sri Ramakrishna 🌺🙏
The idea that seeing from all perspective amounts to a indecipherable cubist painting for God is as much a projection as equating what we see to be what God sees.
The finite, by its nature, is limited, while the infinite is boundless and unconditioned. The finite is a construct of the mind-temporary, form-based, and subject to change. The infinite, on the other hand, is the vast, formless awareness that encompasses all. From the perspective of pure awareness, the finite cannot be fully known by the infinite because the infinite is not confined by the limitations of time, space, or form. It does not operate within the boundaries that define the finite. Instead, the infinite is the space in which all finite things arise and dissolve, but it itself cannot be captured by any finite concept.
In the presence of God and pure awareness, we realize that the finite is only a transient expression within the infinite. It’s like a wave arising in the ocean-although the wave appears distinct, it is not separate from the ocean. Similarly, the finite is an expression of the infinite, but the infinite cannot be contained by it. The finite is merely an aspect of the whole, a passing moment in the eternal flow of being. To try and know the finite through the infinite is to misunderstand the nature of both-the infinite is not something to be known as an object, but to be experienced as the source of all things.
True knowledge arises when we stop seeking to know the finite through the limited lens of the mind and instead rest in pure awareness. When we recognize that the infinite is beyond comprehension and cannot be grasped by the mind, we open to the direct experience of it. In this space, the finite no longer needs to be "known" because it is revealed as part of the whole. The infinite is not something to be understood through knowledge; it is something to be lived, experienced, and simply being in the vastness of all that is.
So clear and satisfying. Thank you so much!
Getting caught up in these inquiries is fun. It's what the ego wants to do. Keep questioning, keep it going. This is what keeps him/her alive. I've already had an awakening and experienced not being me. But the ego will always be there. Just know that's not who you are. There will always be another question. Just let them drift by. Humm that's interesting 🤔 be the observer.
Your comment is full of wisdom and clarity, love it
@luismoref ❤️
@@chuck9112 Would you say that there really is 'an observer'?
@josshlegg8647 Well, they say there is no observer just observing. I'm not that far along yet. 😁 perhaps soon
@@chuck9112 maybe you might like Jim Newman.
Nice conversation ❤
When you explore deep enough, the mind burns itself up, like a space probe entering a planet’s atmosphere.
No Rupert. The INFINITE precludes there being “another.” GOD’s only limitation is that IT cannot be limited.
We can see our eyes: his argument falls apart.
A superior reflection on the Nature of Infinite Reality and how the finite mind CAN'T understand Infinite Reality within its limited purview of "dualistic knowing." As always, thanks Rupert!
To truly know a thing would mean becoming that thing. No one knows what it’s like to be a cat except a cat. And if you asked a cat what it was like to be a cat, it would reply, “me”.
The infinite is the source of awareness. It is not impersonal. It is intimately aware of all things at all times. Maybe not in the sense that we finite beings understand, but in the way that infinite awareness understand.
For example. Where and why is their love. It’s not a chemical reaction . That chemical reaction is the result of not the cause of. Yet we have this capacity, how was it invented , why does it exist . Maybe it’s a finite expression of a particular infinite energy. Tap into that and you are beginning to feel the oneness of all that exists, has existed, or ever will exist.
A bit contradictory in the sense that a finite mind is also Brahman because It’s is everything
The infinite lives through the finite in order to "get to know itself". But how could it be if it "doesn't see the finite" - being un-localized? Perhaps the analogy with seeing is distorting? We finite things do "feel" some phenomena without the need of distance, we need not "see" them to be aware of them. Does the infinite not have some possibilities to know us which we finites cannot understand? Perhaps this subject-object relationships logic is only too human and doesn't apply for the infinite ?
Otherwise it seems to me that all the trouble with creation were futile...
Wonderful talk
❤
Limited, perspective.
The unchanging is the reference to perceive change
Rupert it would be wonderful to hear your thoughts on NDE's. thank you.
A give and take of the mind of itself within itself.
Isn't all this just a good riddle ? The mind can't know it, keep finding it.. ohh , even the act of finding it is not going to give it, because it's not a "thing". What a great riddle I say, let's add love, peace and happiness as it's qualities.. ohh wow what a recipe to keep searching.. such frustration!
Rupert has said before, quoting someone else, “if I speak I tell a lie, but if I remain silent I’m a coward”. No words can explain it. Whatever IT is. But they’re all we have to take us to whatever that IT is.
Yes kind of a riddle ~ I dont think we truly act as finite things as when we see out we assume we are finite looking at things but in reality we are the infinite looking but assume we are individual (so our opinions about things are from this individual view - but its false as we are the infinite all along
@@JoePackFunny it doesn't take you too, it's already meant to be there already, so yes , whether Rupert says or whoever says, it could still just be an incredibly good language riddle.
I totally understand, so then what calls anything into existence if the infinite is aware of nothing. What is the cause?
Sweet ❤
Another way of explaining it is something called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
Please explain why the insight that the infinite cannot know the finite can be understood through the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?
This makes logical sense from the standpoint of the limitations of a human being. But we are talking about God here! Human beings cannot create trillions of galaxies and lifeforms! And if God created these, he at least must have known what they were at the point of creating them. I also remember Rupert saying that God was like "a jazz musician" rather than a "classical musician", ie creating everything that happens on the spin. From the standpoint of our human limitations, how do you create something while blindfolded? This reminds me a bit of sci-fi films in which aliens have two arms and two legs, breathe oxygen and speak perfect English! Or maybe God is a machine with no intelligence that constantly churns random things out and we, on planet Earth, may be the only one of those things that - coincidentally - has any apparent order and meaning?! But a loving God who creates a universe and then runs it "like a jazz musician" must at least know the chord sequence over which to improvise his solos. For me, Rupert's explanation here ties God's hands behind his back and puts a hood over his head.
splendid, just splendid!
So much activity of mind being perceived here.
What Spira does here is defend his vision of none duality with his soul -as always. But if God perceives things completely different from us and doesn't have the capacity to localise as we do, that is dual. Spira contradicts himself. The logical fact is that if we are all part of and made of God, it can localize through us when we are aware of the object. He is misinterpreting none duality. We are all made of the same energy, but vibrating at different frequencies. If God is all the visible energy that exists, it can localize in those who are aware and perceive the world as we do.
1:50 ⚠️♾️oh wow. I've thought about this for so looong. It works like this. Imagine a street with houses. The street is finite and the first house number is 1, every other house receives it's house number in direct relation to house 1. In the infinite there can be NO house 1, because there are already infinite houses before it, therefore, there can be no other street numbers, because they will be unable to reference house 1. To have a house 1, a finite existence must first be establish, from which all other houses numbers reference it. 🙏I would give my kidneys to be able to speak with Rupert for 10 minutes, I have unique simple math equations relating to the finite\infinite, that I would love to discuss. 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 0.9999...God bless and much love and respect always 🙏😇🙏
I have just always wondered, how Rupert knows all of it? Is he not a finite?
Okay, lets go into that a little deeper:
Finite experience is a subject - object relation.
The finite object obviously can be known.
Shouldnt the finite subject also be knowable somehow to 'proove' its existance?
Of course the subject can not know itself because it can not stand at a distance from itself.
So: either some other finite subject experiences the initial subject as an object, or a finite subject does not exist!
Has someone ever found that so called subject?
I had the experience of "I am" and "becoming".
There was a "thing" in Knowing. Nothing more. Subject for me ist perspective. No subject knows, only knowing knows
Što bi rekao onaj iz filma Highilander "može biti samo 1" 😂
He is clearly channeling
So if the infinite God cannot know the finite, then God cannot be omniscient.
It is the infinite in conjunction with the finite, that completes God and makes God omniscient.
This would explain why we(all creation) exists.
We are like a reflection of God, existing so God can experience the color of his eyes.(himself).
God is the tree
God is me
God is me, experiencing the tree.
Omnipotence - He has the power to do anything He desires (Job 42:2; Luke 1:37).Omnipresence - He is in all places, all the time (Jer. 23:24; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalm 90:2).Omniscience - He knows all things (1 John 3:20).
I’m glad she asked the question I’ve been wondering about this too. I still don’t understand but I’ll try to explain. My Being/Soul (which is infinite), can’t know my mind? So does this mean that my mind is Ego (false self) totally? Does my Soul not influence my mind/thoughts? I’m currently trying to listen to my intuition which takes a process involving mind, it must include mind at some stage. Can someone help me with this please?
❤
This knowledge of nothing to know as other thing, is pivotal in all structures of mind and psychology of all ages and situations. Probably it is the reality. And everyone should know this. Just great. Infact, everyone should read Upanishads first hand.
First 🎉 i love Rupert ❤
When Ruppert says God has no idea about limitation ! Or God knows nothing about things,
Or from the description a hand !
Then of course the question arises who else is there within his infinity who makes these descriptions and thus brings them into appearance within his infinity. If he knows nothing about it Like ruppert says !
But he probably meant !
God knows nothing of things he has not thought up himself ! Or Ruppert ? 😜
It’s light bouncing off of everything‼️
How does it relate to our everyday experience?
Ooooh this was pure fire!!! Thank you so much!!!❤️🔥🔥
My freedom has come from watching my mind ask soooooo many questions, to the point where 'I' have realised that the mind will NEVER run out of questions to ask (it is its job after all) and that most of its subsequent answers are pretty much the same, only disguised as something different, but are only of temporal use. I still ask questions, but they are rarely to do with finding meaning, or peace and its ilk. It seems the 'Isness' of life needs no convincing by the mind. In conclusion.... Pffft, hehe!
So As infinite self only experience itself so only experience Awareness ?
It need not take 30 years for the mind to surrender. It just takes the acceptance that the mind asking and answering all these questions is not the right tool to grasp the Infinite. So to just experiment at stopping to try to "understand" the Infinite and what It does or does not do but to just let it in. If that occurs, it is so real no more questions arise. Except perhaps 'how do I experience that again?' that would be a good question. But just letting the Infinite come to us in our seeming finite state rathe than us going on a complicated a search to explain it. The reality of that experience of letting go the effort is far too simple for the mind which loves complexity. That is why it has been called the slayer of the real. It is a duality instrument. Not conducive to appreciating non duality.
Am I understanding it right that the infinite doesn't have the slightest what and why it created?
😊✌️🙏
Due to Non-Duality IS Rupert Consciousness, infinit being, IS Rupert reality perceiving and knowing the glass, the questions, ...
The Infinite precludes there being anything finite. There is only the Infinite being.
but if my experience is a localization of the infinite, and I'm experiencing limitation, is that not the infinite experiencing limitation?
Infinite implies there's an end, the moment you talk about numbers it already has a starting point or an ending point, hence infinite, these numbers have no end.
The almighty God is above infinite, above numbers. God being God can also experience itself in an above infinite way.
Only finite human beings can't understand how the infinite can experience itself.
God definitely experiences itself though us, finite beings. But he has other above infinite options to experience itself other than us finite creatures.
🙏🙏🙏
How could Rupert's statements about infinite consciousness ever be falsified?
I can see a tree in a dream but there is no distance from it….
Is Rupert claiming that God is not wise? Surely wisdom stems from knowledge of the finite? What happened to the all-knowing God?
GOD or INFINITE INTELLIGENCE is ALL. This is all the knowledge there is and the only ONE to know. What does not exist cannot be known, as it is not here, now, not existing to be known.
So if the infinite God cannot know the finite, then God cannot be omniscient.
It is the infinite in conjunction with the finite, that completes God and makes God omniscient.
This would explain why we(all creation) exists.
@@mikey6214 Seems reasonable to me. Would love to hear Rupert's take.
@ GOD, not the conceptual but the actual is the ALONE ONE. This means there is no we, there is no creation. WHAT IS or GOD already is whole, complete. ALL. Nothing can be added to all, nothing can be subtracted from all. This ONE or ALL is omniscient, as IT knows IT is. That’s all the known there is and IT is the only ONE knowing. The INFINITE cannot co-exist with an anything finite, a measure of ITS own absence. ONE cannot know what doesn’t exist. GOD and EXISTENCE are two terms that speak of what is the same ONE, the same ALL.
@@mikey6214 The finite and infinite only appear separate from the perspective of the finite due to its limited perspective of experiencing life with body and mind.
The finite never leaves the infinite; it's only from the limited perspective of the finite that it appears so
Sorry but I don't agree .
The finite cannot know that infinite . That is right
But the infinite can know the finite .
A drop of water cannot be aware of the ocean but the ocean can be aware of a drop of water
Correction Rupert Spira is right
Why does consciousness exist?
Why does God exist?
These comment sections are always like clouds of noise over a sea of clarity
🌿
Bros the infinite ocean believing its a wave whilst not recognising the ocean.
You are the infinite ocean bro 🌊
We are the ocean before GTA 6
@@nameless2407 jesus be back before gta6
@@jackjoyous4300 buddha be putting the fries in the bag without us realising bro
@nameless2407 only one for the job!
My question is why is so hard for the finite to know the infinite. And I don’t mean intellectually like 99.9% of those claiming “they” do. Who is the “they” then?
Jonathan Livingston Seagull!
Great explanation. Clear and concise as usual from Rupert. Thanks alot.
I think what Rupert is trying to explain or clarify is speculative and possibly not true.
How could it be that the infinite or God doesn't know the finite (as the lady says). The infinite must know everything because it is everything, even if all finite is an appearance of it. And how could the infinite or God could be good or mercyful, if it wouldn't know anything about his creatures or appearances. This may also be speculative, but feels better and more consistent to my heart and my mind. I wonder if all our questions can be answered on the experiential level. Many answers seem to stay on the conceptional level.
The traditional idea is that the Divine hides from itself in its Creation and sees and rediscovers itself through all its seemingly separate beings; 'the million masks of God'. We are all a viewpoint of the Divine, or Self. What Rupert is saying seems to negate this. Correct me if I'm wrong. What now is the point of the Creation if the Creator knows nothing of it? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but I'm with you Ibrahim - I don't get it and it doesn't ring true.
@@biffin62oneness rests in abstraction and lives through you as a focus point.
As an extension you can observe and play, but the whole cannot see any one thing for IT is always whole.
@@MountainHacker Good explanation. Thanks.
@@biffin62 Thank you. I hope we are on the right track. I wish you all the best.
@@MountainHacker Thank you. I appreciate your honest comment.
Rupert 😅 the Hand is only a Hand from your Limitit Point of … God knows nothing about a Hand ✋!
Rupert there is only God ❤!
Infinite is a different paradigm..it is the whole.
Just like what happens in a dream is at another level of reality. You can't go into yr dream and change the scene.ln the waking reality we can n do things.
The infinite is the undifferentiated reality..we are differentiated as minds n bodies. We are part of the whole but unaware of our true identity as the infinite because we are under the influence of maya.. ie ego and mind identity living in a world of duality.
The infinite is Infinite this means it knows all. The finite “ ego” belief of separation doesn’t understand this. The infinite seemingly separated from itself and yet has NOT. The infinite has chosen to experience finite a seemingly separation. There are no limitations for God, but the belief of separation “ ego” seem real. Surrender the finite thoughts, judgments etc. The Wholey Spirit is Whole, there is nothing to do for the “ ego” to do.
That's my inner truth also. I can just connect with my source when I completely overcome my "small self, the separated identification, the mind 🙏
Why then if the infinite cannot know the finite would all this suffering that us finite experience in any way be necessary at all .
That's a good question Dennis.
I think the answer from this teaching would be that suffering only seems to exist because of identifying with the body and mind (because of ignorance).
Maybe because our perspective is as close as the infinite can get to a limited point of view.
@ my difficulties are with why the infinite ( total love) would need to experience anything else, especially if it means suffering and misery no matter how illusionary it may be only so we might go back to being one again, I find it rather cruel and unnecessary.
@ it seems to me that being “infinite love” would exclude the possibility of anything else. If absolute love gets bored it hardly seems to be infinite.
3:00 But if the the infinite cannot separate itself from anything, how does the finite mind even exist? Well, I guess the finite mind is an illusion. And if that is true, then I suppose the infinite mind is illusory as well. Or, one could say that the infinite mind is really nothing, and therefore it could separate itself. Ahh, the existential, paradoxical rabbit hole. This is why words, spoken or written, can never truly explain the ineffable (including ineffable 😉). 🧘🏻♂️
❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏Thank you.
Isn't it an assumption that infinite awareness cannot know something it is not separate from? All the analogies are based on the limitations of the finite mind. Those limitations do not apply to infinite awareness.
Yes, but it is an interesting logical exercise.
Can "finite" exist if "infinite" exists?
Very inspiring 💯
Thanks🎉
7:12 God is the embodiment of truth. Therefore, his limitation is that He cannot be false or untrue. For example 1+1=2, this is God's truth, undoubtedly. However, 1+1=3 is not truth, at all, and God will not be able to accommodate this, it's simply untrue and cannot be , otherwise God will be untrue and everything falls apart. If you are reading this,I know you are God's little child, even at 95, and I know he Loves you very much! 🙏😇♾️
Maha Kala the great black,the black screen of Awarness of deep sleep in which every state (dream state,"wake state") appear😮🎉❤
Therefore, you, the thinker, the self, thought, the known, the past, cannot know, come in contact with, the unknown.
My question is:
How does Rupert know, that the Infinite doesn't know the finite?
In my understanding of Non-Duality is the Infinite aka consciousness aka reality, reading these words right now, the only knower.
There is only one knower.
The Infinite aka god has infinite possibilities of perceiving and knowing.
That's my understanding.
Love it!
According to Rupert Spira's philosophy, the statement “The finite cannot be known by the infinite” is actually based on a very deep metaphysical understanding, and although it may seem strange on the surface, it makes sense in a specific context. To understand this view, we need to look at Spira's understanding of consciousness and reality:
The Perspective of the Infinite: Spira defines the infinite as pure consciousness or awareness. This pure awareness has no boundaries, forms or objects. The infinite includes everything and is the ground of being of everything. However, “knowing” something usually means being aware of it or perceiving it as an object. The infinite cannot “know” the finite as something separate, since there is nothing other than itself.
The Unity of the Finite and the Infinite: In Spira's teaching, the finite (e.g. thoughts, feelings, emotions, objects) is really just an appearance of the infinite. This establishes a relationship in the same way that waves cannot be separated from the ocean. Therefore, the finite cannot be “known” by the infinite because the finite is in fact not separate from the infinite from the beginning.
The Problem of Strangeness: This statement turns our classical understanding of “knowing” on its head. In everyday life, knowing something involves perceiving it as a separate entity. But Spira argues that at the core of knowing, something opens itself to awareness through direct experience, without objectification. In this context, the finite cannot be known because it is not an object separate from the infinite, for this would require being a separate thing.
This may seem more like a paradox arising from the limits of language. However, according to Spira, the distinction between the finite and the infinite is actually an illusion.
Great Dialogue ❤
Fascinating!
Beautiful ... thank you.
You love because God is Love❤❤, Satia Sai Baba
The real mystery is how the infinite came to conceive the finite. The infinite containing all unmanifested potentials naturally conceived the universe and finiteness. It may have taken an infinite "time" or not. For me, the "me" meaning this particular expression of the infinite, focusing on the mystery by "being', by being in the now is where such questions end up. And then, the where is not a place, not a state. Pure beingness, full of mystery.