Andrew Doyle's mind is so crisp and clear, and he is so quick to respond. I could never answer so flawlessly and consistently and well in such a public forum. It relaxes my anxiety about the state of the world that public intellectuals like Doyle exist.
Hooray! Andrew Doyle is the best, standing up for us homosexuals against gender identity ideology. Love his last book The New Puritans. Solidarity from a lesbian!
I grew up in the 60s and 70s. Andrew Doyle is right. The words used about women and black people changed because attitudes changed and it became socially unacceptable to use them. Attitudes changed because of persuasion not threats.
I do appreciate how josh tests the ideas of each of his guests regardless of whether he broadly agrees with them or not. Nothing is more boring than podcasts of people furiously agreeing with each other.
I agree, i hope that's what he was doing. It seemed to me he was working a bit too hard at arguing that the word Woman can mean whatever a small minority says it means. Can you broaden the definition of woman without reducing it? No.
@@ADag83 I think Josh just wants his guest to push a little bit more in answering that isn't just the same sentences we hear over and over again on certain topics. I don't think its about Josh agreeing or disagreeing but just wanting to test the boundaries of his own ideas and his guests and where they get a bit blurry. I like hearing that. Cause I've been in one echo chamber for many years on the left, I don't want to just arrive at another one and and get trapped in the same intellectual cul-de-sac.
@@hbdrums337 I HOPE that Josh was steelmanning the woke arguments... I don't know who he is, I came here because of Andrew, but I was a bit shocked by Josh's arguments. They made no sense.
Great conversation. I'm a member so swapped over to the Substack and then Spotify after the cutoff. You need to be able to have the video version elsewhere as it's odd to watch the first 40 minutes on video and the last 30 on audio only!
Excellent conversation. I thought the back and forth regarding they/them and compelled speech was interesting when it slipped sideways, in my view, from being about how language is grammatically coded (its se and meaning) to a word where the meaning has not changed but its utterance has.
Andrew Doyle makes an excellent point that authoritarianism is not confined to either the left or the right. And that the problem with wokeism is its authoritarianism; fining people for using reality-based language is authoritarian, even when the law is passed by a left wing government. So few of the young woke people can see that they're pushing authoritarianism just as Hitler Youth or Mao's Youth Army did. E eryone needs to kearn a bit more history and apply its lessons to today, as Andrew Doyle does so well.
You certainly get some good guests. I'm sorry to hear about ideologically captured librarians - in the past they have been defenders of freedom of speech and information.
Actor or actress is still talking about one person. They/Them is pretending that one person is something more than one person and that we should refer to their pronouns when they're even not around. It's total narcissistic entitlement and nothing more.
It's nice to see Andrew's misty-eyed Liberalism exposed for its naivete. He didn't quite have the epiphany others have had (Culture is downstream from Law) but he was forced to moderate and explain himself more than usual which was a nice change. I think he actually does believe in Progress and as such, there's an Iranian Revolution I'd like to sell him.
21:30 the n word is ‘ugly’ like saying the c word or the f word. Some people feel uncomfortable swearing at all. So there is a natural inclination that all people understand about swearing and causing offence. Therefore making it unsayable makes sense to everyone on a gut level. People who swear freely do so to offend others or be subversive to the social norms. They are being contrarian. Likewise Quentin Tarantino writes it into his scripts for the same purpose. To rouse emotions and pay tribute to a subculture vernacular. Honestly, even saying ‘the N word’ feels a bit primary school ish. It’s infantilising to listeners unless of course they are infants or from fear of censorship. 😉 😉 nudge nudge
Both the "f word" and the "c word" were uttered in this convo without issues, yet he did not dare to utter the "n word". That's really the only word I can think of that people do not dare to utter even in a quote, or an example.
People are afraid of saying it at all. In any context. People are afraid of singing along to their favourite songs because it's included. And that isn't because of the civil rights movement, it's much more recent than that. He missed on this one. It still is a good example but his attempt to sweep it away as the civil rights movement failed. What civil rights movement in the UK?
@@JamesVytas Perhaps, but it's also true. Some of the conversations have seemed like they'd've been actually uncomfortable for Szeps and his guest. Others cover ground that makes large percentages of the public uncomfortable. And his interviews have more pushback than 95% of the rest, sadly.
Don't know what to make of Doyle. He comes across as a really likeable chap, still for me he's kinda too far down the antiwoke rabbithole. I'm pretty antiwoke myself, but I think too many antiwokers turn too far to the right and even completely lose their minds like James Lindsay or the utterly crazy Weinstein Bros. Also, Doyle is a Brexiteer, which is something you just don't wanna be as a rational non right wing person.
@dashendi6562 I can't think of any policy areas where I know or suspect that Doyle has 'shifted to the right', compared to where he would've been 5 or 10 or 20 years ago. However, he is prominently resisting a lurch 'to the left', so maybe that puts him on the 'right', in a way.
Any example? Where do you disagree? What does "pretty antiwoke" mean? Andrew is extremely moderate, a typical old school lefty. Being or not being part of the EU btw has literally nothing to do with left or right wing politics. To suggest it does... sounds pretty woke to me. James Lindsay is getting hate mostly from the right these days, the fact that you say he lost his mind makes me wonder if you aren't a right wing troll yourself.
@@wjdeoliveira3809 Szeps had Lindsay on this podcast. My impression from that episode, and from all that I already knew, was that "lost his mind" would be a harsh yet not totally unfair description of Lindsay. Maybe it's related to his head injury somehow? If he's now getting hate from the 'right' then that could be a good sign - depending on what for, of course.
@@peterford5408 Based on what exactly would you say he "lost his mind", rather than just "said something you disagreed with"? Usually when I see this type of ad hominem attacks, I assume that the person didn't like what he heard but has no arguments against it so he will resort to this type of attack. James something says things I disagree with, but he certainly hasn't "lost his mind".
Andrew Doyle's mind is so crisp and clear, and he is so quick to respond. I could never answer so flawlessly and consistently and well in such a public forum. It relaxes my anxiety about the state of the world that public intellectuals like Doyle exist.
Hooray! Andrew Doyle is the best, standing up for us homosexuals against gender identity ideology.
Love his last book The New Puritans.
Solidarity from a lesbian!
Andrew Doyle always has something intelligent and insightful to add. Thank goodness for his contribution .
I grew up in the 60s and 70s. Andrew Doyle is right. The words used about women and black people changed because attitudes changed and it became socially unacceptable to use them. Attitudes changed because of persuasion not threats.
I’m with Doyle on “they/them”. It hasn’t caught on at all. Most people are revolted by the pronoun nonsense
I do appreciate how josh tests the ideas of each of his guests regardless of whether he broadly agrees with them or not. Nothing is more boring than podcasts of people furiously agreeing with each other.
I agree, i hope that's what he was doing. It seemed to me he was working a bit too hard at arguing that the word Woman can mean whatever a small minority says it means. Can you broaden the definition of woman without reducing it? No.
@@ADag83 I think Josh just wants his guest to push a little bit more in answering that isn't just the same sentences we hear over and over again on certain topics. I don't think its about Josh agreeing or disagreeing but just wanting to test the boundaries of his own ideas and his guests and where they get a bit blurry. I like hearing that. Cause I've been in one echo chamber for many years on the left, I don't want to just arrive at another one and and get trapped in the same intellectual cul-de-sac.
@ADag83 it always sticks in my craw a bit when a man waves away the importance of defining woman using biological realities.
@@hbdrums337 I HOPE that Josh was steelmanning the woke arguments... I don't know who he is, I came here because of Andrew, but I was a bit shocked by Josh's arguments. They made no sense.
I'm only here cos it's Andrew Doyle and he's not afraid to call out bullshit.
Maybe he'll call out some of yours Josh?
Glad it finished when it did.
Women are female Josh. Your lack of respect for us is simply unpalatable. Ick
My pigeon has four legs, and is made from pine.
19:21 they them is still silly
It's narcissistic intent and nothing more.
Andrew is such a good sparring partner for Josh.
great discussion josh. subscribed.
if only there were people like you at the ABC !
Great conversation. I'm a member so swapped over to the Substack and then Spotify after the cutoff. You need to be able to have the video version elsewhere as it's odd to watch the first 40 minutes on video and the last 30 on audio only!
It is not polite to lie.
Eeeek… that was awkward to watch. I felt sorry for you, Josh-he kind of owned you during most of that discussion.
Excellent conversation. I thought the back and forth regarding they/them and compelled speech was interesting when it slipped sideways, in my view, from being about how language is grammatically coded (its se and meaning) to a word where the meaning has not changed but its utterance has.
Andrew Doyle makes an excellent point that authoritarianism is not confined to either the left or the right. And that the problem with wokeism is its authoritarianism; fining people for using reality-based language is authoritarian, even when the law is passed by a left wing government.
So few of the young woke people can see that they're pushing authoritarianism just as Hitler Youth or Mao's Youth Army did. E eryone needs to kearn a bit more history and apply its lessons to today, as Andrew Doyle does so well.
You certainly get some good guests. I'm sorry to hear about ideologically captured librarians - in the past they have been defenders of freedom of speech and information.
Mao Tse Tung? Maybe librarians are just not a tightly knit group. But there is a danger, if they abuse their power.
Actor or actress is still talking about one person. They/Them is pretending that one person is something more than one person and that we should refer to their pronouns when they're even not around. It's total narcissistic entitlement and nothing more.
The camera never pans down...maybe it IS a giant pigeon are not a table?
It's nice to see Andrew's misty-eyed Liberalism exposed for its naivete. He didn't quite have the epiphany others have had (Culture is downstream from Law) but he was forced to moderate and explain himself more than usual which was a nice change.
I think he actually does believe in Progress and as such, there's an Iranian Revolution I'd like to sell him.
Would have been funnier, and perhaps more accurate,
for all male _actors_ to be called _actresses._
21:30 the n word is ‘ugly’ like saying the c word or the f word. Some people feel uncomfortable swearing at all. So there is a natural inclination that all people understand about swearing and causing offence. Therefore making it unsayable makes sense to everyone on a gut level.
People who swear freely do so to offend others or be subversive to the social norms. They are being contrarian. Likewise Quentin Tarantino writes it into his scripts for the same purpose. To rouse emotions and pay tribute to a subculture vernacular.
Honestly, even saying ‘the N word’ feels a bit primary school ish. It’s infantilising to listeners unless of course they are infants or from fear of censorship. 😉 😉 nudge nudge
Both the "f word" and the "c word" were uttered in this convo without issues, yet he did not dare to utter the "n word". That's really the only word I can think of that people do not dare to utter even in a quote, or an example.
People are afraid of saying it at all. In any context. People are afraid of singing along to their favourite songs because it's included. And that isn't because of the civil rights movement, it's much more recent than that.
He missed on this one. It still is a good example but his attempt to sweep it away as the civil rights movement failed. What civil rights movement in the UK?
The bodies thing - they have corpses in their mouths.
I feel like all this woke talk is about 3 years too late. Yawn.
Change the name of the pod it’s cringe.
It’s not that bad. But I think know what you mean. Do you think it sounds a bit self congratulatory?
@@JamesVytas Perhaps, but it's also true. Some of the conversations have seemed like they'd've been actually uncomfortable for Szeps and his guest. Others cover ground that makes large percentages of the public uncomfortable.
And his interviews have more pushback than 95% of the rest, sadly.
Don't know what to make of Doyle. He comes across as a really likeable chap, still for me he's kinda too far down the antiwoke rabbithole. I'm pretty antiwoke myself, but I think too many antiwokers turn too far to the right and even completely lose their minds like James Lindsay or the utterly crazy Weinstein Bros. Also, Doyle is a Brexiteer, which is something you just don't wanna be as a rational non right wing person.
@dashendi6562 I can't think of any policy areas where I know or suspect that Doyle has 'shifted to the right', compared to where he would've been 5 or 10 or 20 years ago.
However, he is prominently resisting a lurch 'to the left', so maybe that puts him on the 'right', in a way.
Any example? Where do you disagree? What does "pretty antiwoke" mean? Andrew is extremely moderate, a typical old school lefty. Being or not being part of the EU btw has literally nothing to do with left or right wing politics. To suggest it does... sounds pretty woke to me. James Lindsay is getting hate mostly from the right these days, the fact that you say he lost his mind makes me wonder if you aren't a right wing troll yourself.
@@wjdeoliveira3809 Szeps had Lindsay on this podcast. My impression from that episode, and from all that I already knew, was that "lost his mind" would be a harsh yet not totally unfair description of Lindsay.
Maybe it's related to his head injury somehow?
If he's now getting hate from the 'right' then that could be a good sign - depending on what for, of course.
@@peterford5408 Based on what exactly would you say he "lost his mind", rather than just "said something you disagreed with"? Usually when I see this type of ad hominem attacks, I assume that the person didn't like what he heard but has no arguments against it so he will resort to this type of attack.
James something says things I disagree with, but he certainly hasn't "lost his mind".
@@wjdeoliveira3809 Did you listen to the episode with him?