I flew for Continental from June of 1966 until year-end 1981, taking early-early retirement then so as not to have to go through the pain I anticipated and was forthcoming. I made Captain on the seniority list 1976 B-727, working as a Line Check-pilot on both 727 and DC-10 until the end. I still ache for the pain of dereg and all that happened. And, by-the-by, from the beginning to the end, I hand-flew the legs I got or gave on all the airplanes I had the pleasure to fly, up and down, to and from 18,000, because autopilots don’t take check-rides, but pilot’s do, and thank you and best to you and all those who plied our profession. Ro Nelsen
Coming from the CO maintenance side, I'm glad you covered this topic. Your comment about the gold tail on the CO "Meatball" livery is correct. The gold looked good when freshly painted, but it didn't take long before the gold paint became "blochy" looking. By the tine of the merger I was in management (Field Planner - scheduling workload on the aircraft). When the merger was announced I was in the "well we'll see what happens" crowd. I didn't take long for me to realize that the merger wasn't the best of ideas, but that would be a digression on my part. I retired at 60 in 2017 as I didn't like the direction of the merged company
As a passenger I enjoyed flying Continental “The proud bird with the golden tail” back in the pre-deregulation days where with some time spent with an OAG book you could make your own connections cross airlines and ride interesting equipment like stretch DC-8’s or CV-880’s.
I departed Continental in 2002 because my PTSD from Vietnam surfaced to the max after 9-11. I came to Continental as a court ordered Eastern hire. I thought Continental was the best airline I worked for during my carrier. I always hand flew the airplane (757, 767, 777) as much as possible. Just to make sure everyone understands that Continental acquired United but kept the United name. I think that was a mistake. One of my most memorable flights was my IOE flight in the 777 from Newark to Frankfort. The LCA was Kevin Kelly and we were two old Vietnam Army Huey pilots.
10:00 damn lmao, being from YWG (though having moved to YVR but still gone back regularly) and having experienced both the old and new airports, I can imagine trying to maneuver a 777 there being quite the challenge
Great vlog as always! SAS/SK did not only merger ONCE, but TWICE. First in 1993 with LF a domestic Swedish airline. That made a bad situation worse. They said that are not doing that mistake ever again. In 2005 the merged with BU a Norwegian domestic airline and it thing went from bad to horrible! Keep up the good work. Be safe!
During the dawn of deregulation, the CAB denied the merger between Western Airlines and Continental, both LAX headquartered airlines with great cultures to work for. Alvin Feldman was successor CEO to Continental's founder, Bob Six. In 1981, Texas International Airlines stepped in with an adversarial takeover of Continental. Feldman was so distressed over the loss of Continental and of its proud heritage, he committed suicide in his Los Angeles office. This opened the door to a very nasty period of upheaval in part 121 aviation.
Interesting video. I worked in the oil industry and went through a few mergers. Big companies have certain cultures and it can be difficult merging the two. In fact, one of our executives (Glen Tilton) who was well liked and respected became CEO of United. Late night TV comedians made fun of this, pointing out if you like gas station restrooms, you are going to love the restrooms on United flights.
Very fascinating video as usual Ron! 2010 was certainly an interesting year to say the least. I know there was lotta mixed feelings about this and still are to this day but it was completely understandable at why this happened. United was having its fair share of financial issues the previous several years before and many other issues too and they were desperately trying to solve them. Keeping the United name and getting rid of Continental’s name made sense since United was the slightly bigger and more popular carrier and keeping continental’s identity over United’s made perfect sense and was a good trade off because Continental had a better reputation and their identity was more modern and had a much bigger meaning than United’s. I believe that those who were upset at seeing the tulip go in 2010 was mainly because they were emotionally attached to it given that it had been around for 37 years at that point and tend to resist the littlest change. Ofc people say it’s iconic simply cause “Saul Bass” created it and its great that lots of people had strong nostalgic feelings and thoughts and about it but they should all know deep down that change is inevitable and that things don’t stay the same forever since companies do whatever they can to look forward rather than backwards and do so in the long term over short term. Ofc the experience with before then and since then varied for all of us but I do know life in general tends to change all around us and I do the best I can to adapt to it swiftly which I know can be very hard for lots to do for various reasons and I personally like the globe better cause it represents a global airline since the earth is a globe and it has a bigger meaning as I said above. The tulip had a great 37 year run and it’ll never be forgotten but ofc it was old and it was time to move on to a new normal for the next 40 years. Ofc it’s important to respect peoples opinions no matter what they are but ofc opinions can never mean more than reality am I right? Anyway sorry for the long comment lol just lots to say and yah keep up the great work buddy!
Just got off work, Ron. Checking this out now. I still like the livery before the "Tulip." Interesting video, Ron. I saw my cousin a couple of days ago and he's now flying Airbuses for Jet Blue and he's based out of JFK , and he lives in Charlotte. I asked him if he had upgraded yet and he said he hadn't yet. He's got about 16,000 hours, he said. I think he wants to fly a bit less and spend more time with his family. I understand now for many reasons. He did say he had trouble transitioning from yoke to sidestick on the Airbus. He said it was weird.
Saul Bass was a genius. I originally wanted to go into that field then after a couple of years of school realized the best of the best do the airline accounts... Id have been doing cereal boxes. Now I fly em instead of designing the paint!
I'm not that old (57) but I do remember Dick Ferris. Our merger between DL and NW went fairly smooth. I did get kicked out of the left seat of the 737 with that one, but enjoyed flying the NW Asia routes as a FO in the 767.
@@bradleypeterson2208Yea mergers suck. Mine is from a DL Pilot prospective. The bad was losing relative seniority and my Captain position but the good was the new routes that NW brought us. The long term bad: DL has systematically disassembled the fine Asia route network that NW maintained for decades and used joint venture with Korean to make up the difference. This is where UA excels as they fly a large part of their Asia network. The real bad: eliminating the NW cargo business and dedicated aircraft. Just think of the cargo business we could have had by transferring retired passenger 747-400s and 777s to this venture. With all that said, DL is still the most profitable airline in the world. Time will tell if we maintain this position. If the global economy holds up, I think Scott Kirby and UA with their massive wide body expansion could dominate the industry. But again, I’m just a monkey driving an A-Bus.
To me, it will always be airmen, and souls on board. There are traditions, as well as superstitions. I always scratched the chin of my jet before every storie, and gremlins were a problem. Its just the way it was, and there is even a rational explanation that improves safety. If you expect the unexpected, youre better off.
I agree with you about the autopilot.... I remember the NTSB blaming over use of the autopilot and the subsequent degradation of manual flying skills for, as a British accident investigator said, 'A rather firm landing'....and not necessarily on the airfield, either. Of course, a different NTSB report found fault because the pilots didn't activate autopilot soon enough, so you can't win.
Ron, let me add to your can of worms. I began flying on commercial airlines in 1972. My primary choices were United and Continental. Along with all the other corporate decay in America (Ford, GM, Chrysler, and big pharm) over this time, I watched as 1st in line to go in the crapper was United. It achieved the top of the list degradation status in the 80's due to declining customer service and an arrogant attitude by the cabin staff. Since I was flying on business around 80% of my time, and the service became so poor at United, I switched solely to Continental. Then of course, United did a purchase / merger of Continental. Immediately, more seats were added on each plane, crappy treatment of the paying passengers ensued, and flight cancellations became routine in order to "bunch" passengers to create greater profits. When he has the time ... I can't wait for Elon Musk Airlines to come online.
In my opinion, over-reliance on autopilot is more dangerous because it creates a reliance on technology. A friend of mine who's a long time retired check airman said "automation should be used as a tool, not a crutch" and I couldn't agree more. It should be there to lighten the workload and keep stress down, not as a replacement for a skilled pilot.
Deregulation was the beginning of the end for air travel. The fun , excitement and truly enjoyable experience of flying, went downhill from there. The merger mania was the worst thing to ever happen to the U. S. aviation industry. 😢
It was a rocky road for many of us from the early 70's thru the 90's, to include failed companies, divorces, suicides, and personal bankruptcies. Today's generation of 121 drivers have had a pretty good ride. Good for them.
I was flying Connection for both airlines during the merger... Some toxic environments. I heard multiple times "welcome aboard United xxx staffed by your legacy Continental crew"
One of he worst things we have at United now is the use of the AP after gear up we are limiting our pilots skills by doing this. To this day I still hand fly the majority of the time at a minimum up to 10k and at times up to cruise. I chat with the half wingers down in ops and ask them when was the last time they actually hand flown after takeoff. Yes almost 100% say they have not they are trained in INDOC to use the AP. I tell them my airplane lets go flying "Hand Flying today" lets sharpen those skills. I remind them one day your AP might not be working and you need to keep your skills sharp. So let's go have some fun today and the majority of my FO's have said it's been fun to hand fly it's been a long time.
I love United's 60's livery and the tulip livery but definitely agree with you on the tennis shoe. Looks way too drab and mechanical - even though I grew up with it being the cool new style, that late 90's no nonsense business look feels almost dystopian in retrospect.
Honest question: Wasn't the UA 777 incident out of Maui a couple of years back, where, after initial climb-out when the aircraft pitched over and came close to crashing into the ocean, precipitated by "clicking on" the autopilot but failing to set the desired altitude, so the airplane tried to do "what it was told" and descend down to 0000? Technology is neat, but it will never substitute for actually flying the plane.
Don't get me started! So I will limit it to this account. In Seattle an Alaska guy asked me what I thought about their merger with Virgin America.... My answer was " Think about what you like best about your job,,, that is what you will lose, and that goes for the Virgin guys also"
The current proposed Alaska- Hawaiian merger is to me , a rather sad situation. I think without the merger , Hawaiian may not survive. I hope it is smooth
Very interesting. Agree with you regarding hand flying the plane. Why become a pilot if you don't enjoy hand flying. I always loved to hand fly the ILS. it gave me great satisfaction and fun. If you like to just punch buttons you can sit in the back with me and play with the entertainment system.
Hello Ron! Thanks for this video, i always wondered what the dynamics of this merger were. I have a question thoigh, maybe for a video. Like always, theres a lot of young guys and girls looking to become pilots. And I know you haven't worked for the airlines for some time, but the requirements at majors to remove the requirement for a 4 year college degree is something that i think that would be something to cover. If you were in their position, would you just go straight to flight school (obviously while working to pay for it) or would you go for the college degree and then look for a job after flight training. This thought crossed my mind looking at the seniority list. I recall hearing you say that your son joined United when he was 23, so looking at the industry at the minute, would it be a good idea to just learn, maybe join a regional for few years to get your hours up and then try go for a major to get yourself ona seniority list early, or will not having the college degree hold you back do you think? where i live, it's different because we dont have the 1500 hour rule by law. Would love to hear you weigh in on this as I've seen a fair few people talk about this. Some have even suggested getting a job at a regional and while you're building hours, on your days off doing a part time degree?!?!
A college degree is a way of weeding people out when the supply of pilots is plentiful. A college degree usually shows that a person is somewhat smart and can stick to something until the end. Is a college degree an absolutely necessary requirement? Probably not but it is a good filter. Also, have a medical condition or fail enough check rides, and your career can be permanently over. I had an electrical engineering degree to fall back upon and I used it during the time I was furloughed to get a good job. My son has a chemical engineering degree for that same reason. I told him he need a useful degree if anything went wrong. A degree in airport management that you get from these licenses mills is essentially worthless. A job at a regional on your days off getting a degree does not sound like a bad deal, but I don't think you could easily make it work. The regionals can work you to death, or so I hear.
@ronrogers thanks! I would say there probably aren't enough airports to be managed by the number of people with those degrees! Thanks for the advice. I am definitely looking to do a degree in some sort of business or economics course. It's always good to have a plan B like you said!
I don't think you're being old. I'm just a student pilot, but I also dislike how heavily and readily the autopilot is used in the airlines. I feel too much automation can become problematic in more stressful situations, and likely was a considerable factor for some accidents in the last few decades. Siberian S7 Airlines Flight 5220 comes to mind, among others.
What happened with the United/ Continental merger is the same thing that would have happened to Saturday morning cartoons if they would have tried to merged the Jetsons with the Flintstones.
@@ronrogers it got really crazy and a lot of SWA people really went after the United F.O. in the online pilot forums on social media. They practically doxxed her, posted her picture and I.D., and vowed to ruin her career etc. It was a mob mentality against her, and a lot of other pilots accused her of reporting the SWA pilots to the FAA after she dead-headed on a flight. Allegedly the SWA pilots didn’t configure the plane a certain way for landing, so she spoke up from the jumpseat politely and questioned the SWA pilots if they were going to correct. After the flight she allegedly told one of her friends, and that friend allegedly reported the incident to the FAA. However, no report was actually made, but a bunch of SWA folks started to spread rumors that a report was made, and everything just snowballed from there. A pretty messy and sad situation over a nothingburger in my opinion.
@@ronrogers you’re welcome sir! Yeah, it was kind of disheartening to see how so many people jumped to conclusions and really went after the lady, over something so minor that wasn’t a safety issue. Pilots, regardless of what airline they work for, should all be looking out for each other and have each other’s backs. Now after this incident, if there really is a safety concern, people will be afraid to speak up for fear of the same kind of attacks that the United F.O. was subjected to…..and that’s really bad for the industry.
Yes, that’s very sad that that happened. That said perhaps the FAA and NTSB might consider how to integrate qualified jumpseating pilots into the Crew Resource Management equation to prevent such issues from happening in the future, so that if a jumpseating pilot who is qualified on the same or similiar aircraft type sees something that looks off, he can speak up about it, but at the same time flight crews shouldn’t have to worry about the mere possibility of a spurious safety report being filed against them by a jumpseater unfamiliar with their aircraft or their airlines’ distinctive SOPs. Although in this case, that didn’t even happen, rather it sounds like a United pilot was doxxed and mistreated based on false accusation, essentially for no good reason, and thus I think preventing future jumpseat wars and standardizing how jumpseaters might contribute to CRM, if they are to do so at all, should be something the FAA thinks about.
I know Continental's 777s had GE engines and United's had the Pratts... Did having a mixed engine fleet effect you at all after so many years with the Pratts? Is it much different planning performance in N1 vs. EPR?
I lost 300+ numbers when AAL bought Air CAL and then we bought TWA and lost some more. I was a 737-800 when we bought TWA, one trip I had was a flight to Tulsa from BWI to get a door seal fixed, nice trip out, but noisy. When we flew back to BWI on TWA after the merger. I stopped in the cockpit to say high to the pilots and they wouldn’t give me the time of day. AAL saved their careers and I must say that I was not very happy with those 2 pilots!
I was told that all TWA pilots and FAs were laid off by 2004 following the merger; at the time, the aviation community online said that the seniormost TWA pilot went to the bottom of the AA seniority list, in part due to AA vs. ALPA issues, and in part because of the very poor financial condition of TWA at the time of the merger and its small size compared to AA, and that the TWA flight crews and cabin crews then wound up being laid off en masse with the industry contraction following 9/11. Now, nothing would make me happier if what you are saying is that this if this is not the case and if some TWA air crew wound up flying with AA for years after the merger, that would make me very happy, because at the time it just added to the tragedy of TWA, an airline as romantic as Pan Am, going out of business. Following the merger, most of the scuttlebutt on various airline related websites could be filled with misinformation; in particular there was a consultant involved with the group that tried to take over TWA but was outbid by AA who spread quite a bit of misinformation, and was later involved in an ultimately unsuccessful project to create a new flag carrier for Ghana in West Africa after Ghana Airways collapsed after failing an FAA inspection on the aging DC-10s they used to fly from Accra to LHR and JFK (and this new airline damp-leased a 757-200 with Ghanaian flight attendants if I recall but only lasted about 18 months before being shut down, and with competition from Virgin and BA to London, and with Delta being the first US based airline to fly to Accra from JFK starting in 2007 or so, and I think Continental flew there as well, they did not stand aa chance). But that being said I do also regret what the mergers did for the careers of other pilots. I don’t think DL-NW, US-AA and CO-UA should have been allowed (since Doug Parker and the America West management made US Airways viable, whereas the previous CEO, who had also been CEO of United, Stephen Wolf, had focused his efforts on making the airline an attractive merger partner for United, and UA-US was blocked by the justice department) and AA-TW only happened because TWA had been left terminally weakened by predatory behavior by the notorious raider Carl Icahn, who was responsible for selling their LHR slots and also for a deal whereby his travel agency could buy TWA tickets at 45% off, and this, combined with the PR problems from TWA 800 created a situation similar to that which killed Pan Am, and it was desperately sad.
@@ronrogers i have 23 years left at Widget but Ill only get to #3, 000...they hired a ton of 23 year olds in the 18 months I waited to flow. Oh well, 3000 will still be a great life.
I grew up in a UNITED family, in Denver, through the 1980's and '90's... We hated...not too strong a word...Continental. Frank Lorenzo. The "Meatball." We hated Continental and everything Continental. (Yeah, yeah, I'll admit that in private, I thought the old CO livery was pretty cool, but I'll never admit it in public...) So, when UAL and CO "merged" (really, CO bought UA out), I threw up... I miss the Friendly Skies.
The Good...growth of the airlines The bad...my opinion At UA prior to the merger we had what I thought was the pinnacle of training quality. 9 month cycle 2 day pt during which we practiced many situations not part of a PC or checkride. Then the PC 3 day event. Systems review, FOM review then a very comprehensive PC on day 3. Including a systems oral. In 4 years on the CAL 737 fleet i did exactly 4 v1 cuts. Only did what I thought was the absolute minimum required training abscent both a systems review or oral and an FOM review. Over my 25 years prior to the merger there was a whole department dedicated to streamlining and making the flight manual and FOM more user friendly. Everytime I had to pull sections of our manuals and replace them with CAL manuals I was disappointed at how poorly they were arranged and formatted. Much of the aircraft performance Information we were used to having at UA was ommited and not available to a line pilot. In general SOPs and training were dumbed down ( I believe to accomodate express jet pilots coming onto the 737). Use of the autopilot was so promoted that in the 737 course I probably only flew one approach that was not an RNAV on the A/P. I remember clicking off the autopilot flying into Boston early on...wx 1500 overcast and 10miles vis. Entered the undercast at 15,000 and the copilot was hyperventalating and kept saying" is this allowed, I dont think this is allowed." Lol. Surely a different attitude about hand flying..i encouranged them to hand fly but most had no interest and when I have one that does their lack of practice is pretty obvious. On the work rules ...we maxed at 81 hours no overtime or premium pay. 3 or 4 pilots picking up time prevents another pilot hire. The pay rules were simple credit hours x the hourly rate equaled your pay. Now I fly at normal pay and the copilot might be getting 300 percent, add pay for this and that and it takes a doctorate in finance to figure out if you were paid correctly..lol. 25 years at UA never a pay error..since merged..at least 10 pay errors. On seniority I only lost about 1200 numbers to people junior to me but I had former military copilots had 15 years and two fuloughs trumped by guys with 7 years. Cost some of them any chance at the Capt seat. I dont know if its still avaiable but the transcripts of the seniority integration arbitration is a fascinating read.. Compared to some mergers not too bad i guess.
I flew for Continental from June of 1966 until year-end 1981, taking early-early retirement then so as not to have to go through the pain I anticipated and was forthcoming. I made Captain on the seniority list 1976 B-727, working as a Line Check-pilot on both 727 and DC-10 until the end. I still ache for the pain of dereg and all that happened. And, by-the-by, from the beginning to the end, I hand-flew the legs I got or gave on all the airplanes I had the pleasure to fly, up and down, to and from 18,000, because autopilots don’t take check-rides, but pilot’s do, and thank you and best to you and all those who plied our profession. Ro Nelsen
Thanks!
Coming from the CO maintenance side, I'm glad you covered this topic.
Your comment about the gold tail on the CO "Meatball" livery is correct. The gold looked good when freshly painted, but it didn't take long before the gold paint became "blochy" looking.
By the tine of the merger I was in management (Field Planner - scheduling workload on the aircraft). When the merger was announced I was in the "well we'll see what happens" crowd. I didn't take long for me to realize that the merger wasn't the best of ideas, but that would be a digression on my part.
I retired at 60 in 2017 as I didn't like the direction of the merged company
Bring back that Retro paint job on the Continental. It was awesome
As a passenger I enjoyed flying Continental “The proud bird with the golden tail” back in the pre-deregulation days where with some time spent with an OAG book you could make your own connections cross airlines and ride interesting equipment like stretch DC-8’s or CV-880’s.
Ah yes! The OAG book!
I was the XJT MEC Sec/Treas working the office during all this. We shared the ALPA office in IAH. Yikes. OMG. Holy smokes. Did I learn a ton.
I departed Continental in 2002 because my PTSD from Vietnam surfaced to the max after 9-11. I came to Continental as a court ordered Eastern hire. I thought Continental was the best airline I worked for during my carrier. I always hand flew the airplane (757, 767, 777) as much as possible. Just to make sure everyone understands that Continental acquired United but kept the United name. I think that was a mistake. One of my most memorable flights was my IOE flight in the 777 from Newark to Frankfort. The LCA was Kevin Kelly and we were two old Vietnam Army Huey pilots.
Sorry to hear you had to “depart”. It’s no fun dealing with ptsd.
Captain, I miss the Tulip.
10:00 damn lmao, being from YWG (though having moved to YVR but still gone back regularly) and having experienced both the old and new airports, I can imagine trying to maneuver a 777 there being quite the challenge
Yes, I had to be very careful on some of the taxiways!!
Great vlog as always! SAS/SK did not only merger ONCE, but TWICE. First in 1993 with LF a domestic Swedish airline. That made a bad situation worse. They said that are not doing that mistake ever again. In 2005 the merged with BU a Norwegian domestic airline and it thing went from bad to horrible! Keep up the good work. Be safe!
Irredisregardlessly! 👏👏👏
youbetcha!!🤣🤣🤣
@@ronrogers That "word" was simultaneously invented and destroyed pretty quickly. Hell, Maybe it will make it into the lexicon.
Lmao. I'm definitely stealing that 😂
I'm just glad he didn't bring up large pachyderms, because that would be completely irrelephant.
During the dawn of deregulation, the CAB denied the merger between Western Airlines and Continental, both LAX headquartered airlines with great cultures to work for. Alvin Feldman was successor CEO to Continental's founder, Bob Six. In 1981, Texas International Airlines stepped in with an adversarial takeover of Continental. Feldman was so distressed over the loss of Continental and of its proud heritage, he committed suicide in his Los Angeles office. This opened the door to a very nasty period of upheaval in part 121 aviation.
Interesting video. I worked in the oil industry and went through a few mergers. Big companies have certain cultures and it can be difficult merging the two. In fact, one of our executives (Glen Tilton) who was well liked and respected became CEO of United. Late night TV comedians made fun of this, pointing out if you like gas station restrooms, you are going to love the restrooms on United flights.
Very fascinating video as usual Ron! 2010 was certainly an interesting year to say the least. I know there was lotta mixed feelings about this and still are to this day but it was completely understandable at why this happened. United was having its fair share of financial issues the previous several years before and many other issues too and they were desperately trying to solve them. Keeping the United name and getting rid of Continental’s name made sense since United was the slightly bigger and more popular carrier and keeping continental’s identity over United’s made perfect sense and was a good trade off because Continental had a better reputation and their identity was more modern and had a much bigger meaning than United’s. I believe that those who were upset at seeing the tulip go in 2010 was mainly because they were emotionally attached to it given that it had been around for 37 years at that point and tend to resist the littlest change. Ofc people say it’s iconic simply cause “Saul Bass” created it and its great that lots of people had strong nostalgic feelings and thoughts and about it but they should all know deep down that change is inevitable and that things don’t stay the same forever since companies do whatever they can to look forward rather than backwards and do so in the long term over short term. Ofc the experience with before then and since then varied for all of us but I do know life in general tends to change all around us and I do the best I can to adapt to it swiftly which I know can be very hard for lots to do for various reasons and I personally like the globe better cause it represents a global airline since the earth is a globe and it has a bigger meaning as I said above. The tulip had a great 37 year run and it’ll never be forgotten but ofc it was old and it was time to move on to a new normal for the next 40 years. Ofc it’s important to respect peoples opinions no matter what they are but ofc opinions can never mean more than reality am I right? Anyway sorry for the long comment lol just lots to say and yah keep up the great work buddy!
Thanks!
@@ronrogers no problem at all its a pleasure
I made it through a merger (airlines), it took around 15 years until the dust settled…
Very informative....Thank you...Roger
Very welcome
Thank you for covering this topic, I was hoping you would do this! God bless you, Captain Rogers!
You are very welcome
Just got off work, Ron. Checking this out now. I still like the livery before the "Tulip." Interesting video, Ron. I saw my cousin a couple of days ago and he's now flying Airbuses for Jet Blue and he's based out of JFK , and he lives in Charlotte. I asked him if he had upgraded yet and he said he hadn't yet. He's got about 16,000 hours, he said. I think he wants to fly a bit less and spend more time with his family. I understand now for many reasons. He did say he had trouble transitioning from yoke to sidestick on the Airbus. He said it was weird.
I'm by no means a pilot, but I've always thought that the sidestick was best left to kids and games, not professional's.
From “just a customer” perspective…I MISS CONTINENTAL 😢
Talk into your mic, my volume is almost maxed out, Thank's
Sorry about that
I liked the tulip logo Saul Bass designed for United, shame they retired it. Fun fact, he also designed the jetstream logo for Continental 🤓
Saul Bass was a genius. I originally wanted to go into that field then after a couple of years of school realized the best of the best do the airline accounts... Id have been doing cereal boxes. Now I fly em instead of designing the paint!
I'm not that old (57) but I do remember Dick Ferris. Our merger between DL and NW went fairly smooth. I did get kicked out of the left seat of the 737 with that one, but enjoyed flying the NW Asia routes as a FO in the 767.
Didn’t go smoothly for the NW mechanics or NW Cargo…
@@bradleypeterson2208Yea mergers suck. Mine is from a DL Pilot prospective. The bad was losing relative seniority and my Captain position but the good was the new routes that NW brought us. The long term bad: DL has systematically disassembled the fine Asia route network that NW maintained for decades and used joint venture with Korean to make up the difference. This is where UA excels as they fly a large part of their Asia network. The real bad: eliminating the NW cargo business and dedicated aircraft. Just think of the cargo business we could have had by transferring retired passenger 747-400s and 777s to this venture.
With all that said, DL is still the most profitable airline in the world. Time will tell if we maintain this position. If the global economy holds up, I think Scott Kirby and UA with their massive wide body expansion could dominate the industry. But again, I’m just a monkey driving an A-Bus.
To me, it will always be airmen, and souls on board.
There are traditions, as well as superstitions. I always scratched the chin of my jet before every storie, and gremlins were a problem.
Its just the way it was, and there is even a rational explanation that improves safety. If you expect the unexpected, youre better off.
Very interesting video. Funny you mention clicking on the autopilot right away . I've heard the same thing from the United guys I know.
Excellent as usual 👌
Thank you! Cheers!
ooooh this is gonna be some goooood digressions! 😀
EDIT: Today's digressions: 10/10 recommended, esp about the autopilot thing.
I agree with you about the autopilot.... I remember the NTSB blaming over use of the autopilot and the subsequent degradation of manual flying skills for, as a British accident investigator said, 'A rather firm landing'....and not necessarily on the airfield, either. Of course, a different NTSB report found fault because the pilots didn't activate autopilot soon enough, so you can't win.
You can never win against 20/20 hindsight!
Ron, let me add to your can of worms. I began flying on commercial airlines in 1972. My primary choices were United and Continental. Along with all the other corporate decay in America (Ford, GM, Chrysler, and big pharm) over this time, I watched as 1st in line to go in the crapper was United. It achieved the top of the list degradation status in the 80's due to declining customer service and an arrogant attitude by the cabin staff. Since I was flying on business around 80% of my time, and the service became so poor at United, I switched solely to Continental. Then of course, United did a purchase / merger of Continental. Immediately, more seats were added on each plane, crappy treatment of the paying passengers ensued, and flight cancellations became routine in order to "bunch" passengers to create greater profits. When he has the time ... I can't wait for Elon Musk Airlines to come online.
In my opinion, over-reliance on autopilot is more dangerous because it creates a reliance on technology. A friend of mine who's a long time retired check airman said "automation should be used as a tool, not a crutch" and I couldn't agree more. It should be there to lighten the workload and keep stress down, not as a replacement for a skilled pilot.
Absolutely!
Deregulation was the beginning of the end for air travel. The fun , excitement and truly enjoyable experience of flying, went downhill from there. The merger mania was the worst thing to ever happen to the U. S. aviation industry. 😢
We lost a lot of great and historic carriers.
It was a rocky road for many of us from the early 70's thru the 90's, to include failed companies, divorces, suicides, and personal bankruptcies. Today's generation of 121 drivers have had a pretty good ride. Good for them.
We just finally got over deregulation in the last ten years.
@@BobbyGeneric145 Yep
I was flying Connection for both airlines during the merger... Some toxic environments. I heard multiple times "welcome aboard United xxx staffed by your legacy Continental crew"
Yea, I heard about those announcements.
Don't forget Continental got People express before United came in
A blast from the past! Flew PEx out of Newark a few times
One of he worst things we have at United now is the use of the AP after gear up we are limiting our pilots skills by doing this. To this day I still hand fly the majority of the time at a minimum up to 10k and at times up to cruise. I chat with the half wingers down in ops and ask them when was the last time they actually hand flown after takeoff. Yes almost 100% say they have not they are trained in INDOC to use the AP. I tell them my airplane lets go flying "Hand Flying today" lets sharpen those skills. I remind them one day your AP might not be working and you need to keep your skills sharp. So let's go have some fun today and the majority of my FO's have said it's been fun to hand fly it's been a long time.
I love United's 60's livery and the tulip livery but definitely agree with you on the tennis shoe. Looks way too drab and mechanical - even though I grew up with it being the cool new style, that late 90's no nonsense business look feels almost dystopian in retrospect.
Honest question: Wasn't the UA 777 incident out of Maui a couple of years back, where, after initial climb-out when the aircraft pitched over and came close to crashing into the ocean, precipitated by "clicking on" the autopilot but failing to set the desired altitude, so the airplane tried to do "what it was told" and descend down to 0000? Technology is neat, but it will never substitute for actually flying the plane.
Don't get me started! So I will limit it to this account. In Seattle an Alaska guy asked me what I thought about their merger with Virgin America.... My answer was " Think about what you like best about your job,,, that is what you will lose, and that goes for the Virgin guys also"
The current proposed Alaska- Hawaiian merger is to me , a rather sad situation. I think without the merger , Hawaiian may not survive. I hope it is smooth
Very interesting. Agree with you regarding hand flying the plane. Why become a pilot if you don't enjoy hand flying. I always loved to hand fly the ILS. it gave me great satisfaction and fun. If you like to just punch buttons you can sit in the back with me and play with the entertainment system.
Couldn't agree more
Can you explain what a "Line Check Pilot" duties are? Thanks!
Checking people out in the aircraft either as captain or first officer. Also giving line checks to the flight crew.
Good story
Thanks for watching
Hello Ron! Thanks for this video, i always wondered what the dynamics of this merger were. I have a question thoigh, maybe for a video. Like always, theres a lot of young guys and girls looking to become pilots. And I know you haven't worked for the airlines for some time, but the requirements at majors to remove the requirement for a 4 year college degree is something that i think that would be something to cover.
If you were in their position, would you just go straight to flight school (obviously while working to pay for it) or would you go for the college degree and then look for a job after flight training. This thought crossed my mind looking at the seniority list. I recall hearing you say that your son joined United when he was 23, so looking at the industry at the minute, would it be a good idea to just learn, maybe join a regional for few years to get your hours up and then try go for a major to get yourself ona seniority list early, or will not having the college degree hold you back do you think?
where i live, it's different because we dont have the 1500 hour rule by law. Would love to hear you weigh in on this as I've seen a fair few people talk about this. Some have even suggested getting a job at a regional and while you're building hours, on your days off doing a part time degree?!?!
A college degree is a way of weeding people out when the supply of pilots is plentiful. A college degree usually shows that a person is somewhat smart and can stick to something until the end. Is a college degree an absolutely necessary requirement? Probably not but it is a good filter.
Also, have a medical condition or fail enough check rides, and your career can be permanently over. I had an electrical engineering degree to fall back upon and I used it during the time I was furloughed to get a good job. My son has a chemical engineering degree for that same reason. I told him he need a useful degree if anything went wrong. A degree in airport management that you get from these licenses mills is essentially worthless.
A job at a regional on your days off getting a degree does not sound like a bad deal, but I don't think you could easily make it work. The regionals can work you to death, or so I hear.
@ronrogers thanks! I would say there probably aren't enough airports to be managed by the number of people with those degrees!
Thanks for the advice. I am definitely looking to do a degree in some sort of business or economics course. It's always good to have a plan B like you said!
What year was that last United pic getting cleaned taken in too out of curiosity?
2015
@@ronrogers beautiful man
6:11 what is the aircraft in the background? It looks like a 707 or DC-8. The move to autopilot scares the shikkies out of me.
I can't really see it well enough to tell but I would guess it is a DC-8.
I don't think you're being old. I'm just a student pilot, but I also dislike how heavily and readily the autopilot is used in the airlines. I feel too much automation can become problematic in more stressful situations, and likely was a considerable factor for some accidents in the last few decades. Siberian S7 Airlines Flight 5220 comes to mind, among others.
What happened with the United/ Continental merger is the same thing that would have happened to Saturday morning cartoons if they would have tried to merged the Jetsons with the Flintstones.
Tell us which one was which and why?
@@47colton United was in the space age with maintenance while Continental was still in the stone age.
@@andresmith9212 I agree. Still using paper log book coupons. Even the scepter program in use now is not as good as what United had in my opinion.
How about your thoughts on the recent United vs Southwest jumpseat controversy? A lot of it was blown out of proportion.
I had not heard about that!
@@ronrogers it got really crazy and a lot of SWA people really went after the United F.O. in the online pilot forums on social media. They practically doxxed her, posted her picture and I.D., and vowed to ruin her career etc. It was a mob mentality against her, and a lot of other pilots accused her of reporting the SWA pilots to the FAA after she dead-headed on a flight. Allegedly the SWA pilots didn’t configure the plane a certain way for landing, so she spoke up from the jumpseat politely and questioned the SWA pilots if they were going to correct. After the flight she allegedly told one of her friends, and that friend allegedly reported the incident to the FAA. However, no report was actually made, but a bunch of SWA folks started to spread rumors that a report was made, and everything just snowballed from there. A pretty messy and sad situation over a nothingburger in my opinion.
Wow, sounds like it. Thanks for sharing the story!
@@ronrogers you’re welcome sir! Yeah, it was kind of disheartening to see how so many people jumped to conclusions and really went after the lady, over something so minor that wasn’t a safety issue. Pilots, regardless of what airline they work for, should all be looking out for each other and have each other’s backs. Now after this incident, if there really is a safety concern, people will be afraid to speak up for fear of the same kind of attacks that the United F.O. was subjected to…..and that’s really bad for the industry.
Yes, that’s very sad that that happened. That said perhaps the FAA and NTSB might consider how to integrate qualified jumpseating pilots into the Crew Resource Management equation to prevent such issues from happening in the future, so that if a jumpseating pilot who is qualified on the same or similiar aircraft type sees something that looks off, he can speak up about it, but at the same time flight crews shouldn’t have to worry about the mere possibility of a spurious safety report being filed against them by a jumpseater unfamiliar with their aircraft or their airlines’ distinctive SOPs. Although in this case, that didn’t even happen, rather it sounds like a United pilot was doxxed and mistreated based on false accusation, essentially for no good reason, and thus I think preventing future jumpseat wars and standardizing how jumpseaters might contribute to CRM, if they are to do so at all, should be something the FAA thinks about.
@6:24 - The best UA livery…..TO DATE!
I know Continental's 777s had GE engines and United's had the Pratts... Did having a mixed engine fleet effect you at all after so many years with the Pratts?
Is it much different planning performance in N1 vs. EPR?
Had the same issue on the old 737s. Not a problem.
You need to rename your channel to “The Digressions”
Irredisregardlessly?!
Tennis shoe? Controllers called it "bowling shoe".
Thought the bowling shoe livery was NWA's gray/red.
We called it the stealth because it was hard to see at night!
I lost 300+ numbers when AAL bought Air CAL and then we bought TWA and lost some more. I was a 737-800 when we bought TWA, one trip I had was a flight to Tulsa from BWI to get a door seal fixed, nice trip out, but noisy. When we flew back to BWI on TWA after the merger. I stopped in the cockpit to say high to the pilots and they wouldn’t give me the time of day. AAL saved their careers and I must say that I was not very happy with those 2 pilots!
Yes, I have heard a lot of horror stories regarding seniority integration.
I was told that all TWA pilots and FAs were laid off by 2004 following the merger; at the time, the aviation community online said that the seniormost TWA pilot went to the bottom of the AA seniority list, in part due to AA vs. ALPA issues, and in part because of the very poor financial condition of TWA at the time of the merger and its small size compared to AA, and that the TWA flight crews and cabin crews then wound up being laid off en masse with the industry contraction following 9/11. Now, nothing would make me happier if what you are saying is that this if this is not the case and if some TWA air crew wound up flying with AA for years after the merger, that would make me very happy, because at the time it just added to the tragedy of TWA, an airline as romantic as Pan Am, going out of business. Following the merger, most of the scuttlebutt on various airline related websites could be filled with misinformation; in particular there was a consultant involved with the group that tried to take over TWA but was outbid by AA who spread quite a bit of misinformation, and was later involved in an ultimately unsuccessful project to create a new flag carrier for Ghana in West Africa after Ghana Airways collapsed after failing an FAA inspection on the aging DC-10s they used to fly from Accra to LHR and JFK (and this new airline damp-leased a 757-200 with Ghanaian flight attendants if I recall but only lasted about 18 months before being shut down, and with competition from Virgin and BA to London, and with Delta being the first US based airline to fly to Accra from JFK starting in 2007 or so, and I think Continental flew there as well, they did not stand aa chance). But that being said I do also regret what the mergers did for the careers of other pilots. I don’t think DL-NW, US-AA and CO-UA should have been allowed (since Doug Parker and the America West management made US Airways viable, whereas the previous CEO, who had also been CEO of United, Stephen Wolf, had focused his efforts on making the airline an attractive merger partner for United, and UA-US was blocked by the justice department) and AA-TW only happened because TWA had been left terminally weakened by predatory behavior by the notorious raider Carl Icahn, who was responsible for selling their LHR slots and also for a deal whereby his travel agency could buy TWA tickets at 45% off, and this, combined with the PR problems from TWA 800 created a situation similar to that which killed Pan Am, and it was desperately sad.
AKA "Suck meets blow" :-) :-)
Not sure if anyone will agree but nowadays after the merger, United today is just a more glorified Continental…
Ron what was your final seniority number?
Something less than 200 but I don’t think I ever actually checked.
@@ronrogers i have 23 years left at Widget but Ill only get to #3, 000...they hired a ton of 23 year olds in the 18 months I waited to flow. Oh well, 3000 will still be a great life.
I grew up in a UNITED family, in Denver, through the 1980's and '90's... We hated...not too strong a word...Continental. Frank Lorenzo. The "Meatball." We hated Continental and everything Continental. (Yeah, yeah, I'll admit that in private, I thought the old CO livery was pretty cool, but I'll never admit it in public...) So, when UAL and CO "merged" (really, CO bought UA out), I threw up...
I miss the Friendly Skies.
DEi rules at the new United. Correct on the autopilot since the 90s.
CAL was a scab airline, and I couldn’t agree more with regard to hand flying the plane.
The Good...growth of the airlines
The bad...my opinion
At UA prior to the merger we had what I thought was the pinnacle of training quality. 9 month cycle 2 day pt during which we practiced many situations not part of a PC or checkride. Then the PC 3 day event. Systems review, FOM review then a very comprehensive
PC on day 3. Including a systems oral. In 4 years on the CAL 737 fleet i did exactly 4 v1 cuts. Only did what I thought was the absolute minimum required training abscent both a systems review or oral and an FOM review.
Over my 25 years prior to the merger there was a whole department dedicated to streamlining and making the flight manual and FOM more user friendly. Everytime I had to pull sections of our manuals and replace them with CAL manuals I was disappointed at how poorly they were arranged and formatted.
Much of the aircraft performance
Information we were used to having at UA was ommited and not available to a line pilot.
In general SOPs and training were dumbed down ( I believe to accomodate express jet pilots coming onto the 737). Use of the autopilot was so promoted that in the 737 course I probably only flew one approach that was not an RNAV on the A/P. I remember clicking off the autopilot flying into Boston early on...wx 1500 overcast and 10miles vis. Entered the undercast at 15,000 and the copilot was hyperventalating and kept saying" is this allowed, I dont think this is allowed." Lol. Surely a different attitude about hand flying..i encouranged them to hand fly but most had no interest and when I have one that does their lack of practice is pretty obvious.
On the work rules ...we maxed at 81 hours no overtime or premium pay. 3 or 4 pilots picking up time prevents another pilot hire. The pay rules were simple credit hours x the hourly rate equaled your pay. Now I fly at normal pay and the copilot might be getting 300 percent, add pay for this and that and it takes a doctorate in finance to figure out if you were paid correctly..lol. 25 years at UA never a pay error..since merged..at least 10 pay errors.
On seniority I only lost about 1200 numbers to people junior to me but I had former military copilots had 15 years and two fuloughs trumped by guys with 7 years. Cost some of them any chance at the Capt seat.
I dont know if its still avaiable but the transcripts of the seniority integration arbitration is a fascinating read..
Compared to some mergers not too bad i guess.