The Crown: an analysis of Conservative Feminism
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Ohi!
Is there such a thing as Conservative Feminism? We'll use The Crown to try to figure that out. Grab your cup of tea and here we gooooo
SOURCES:
www.npr.org/20...
"Women political leaders: the impact of gender on democracy," King's College London, 2020.
"Number of women entering medical school rises after a decade of decline," BMJ 2018;360:k202.
study.com/acad...
Nancy F. Cott. "Comment on Karen Offen's "Defining Feminism: A Comparative Historical Approach," Signs , Autumn, 1989, Vol. 15, No. 1 (Autumn, 1989), pp. 203-205
Linda Kerber. "The Republican Mother: Women and the Enlightenment-An American Perspective," American Quarterly, Vol. 28, No. 2, Special Issue: An American Enlightenment (Summer, 1976), pp. 187-205. (thanks Emma for the article!)
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Salut !
As a great thinker once asked: “Do you think Margaret Thatcher has girlpower?”
And do you think she effectively used this power when funding death squads in Northern Ireland?
"Yea.."
@@bobcelery6616 I don't know about thaaaat!
As much as Ivanka Trump, which is jack sh*t
@@bobcelery6616 you mean the UDA and UDF, they were not death squads but loyalist paramilitaries.
Margaret Thatcher: the OG "I'm not like other girls" girl
@Erwin Lii she isnt. She just left her legacy Alice. That's what my father said. Liberalism isn't human. The fact is that we didn't have any left wing here in France since 81' all europeans presidents and governement. Especially social democrats one embodied her theory. So there is yet no escape. Far right win or status quo. That's our only choice. She isn't a Feminist at all. She was just here for herself. That's pure power not feminism
If i wanted to be unpleasant she is the only one hysteric i know.🤣
@Erwin Lii i hope. But i am intimately convinced like some of my friends they never will suffer the consequencies from their actions. Even if they were raised under the god's lame. They were narcissistic enough to ignore compassion.
athene
'Gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss' - Margaret Thatcher, 1987
@@peggy7744 and the left wonder why labour has yet to have ANY female leader, ever.....
There’s a wonderful video that depicts the reaction to Thatcher’s death in Glasgow (one of the main cities in Scotland where she was DESPISED by most) and someone asked a protestor about her view on her and to paraphrase she replies “she did nothing for women, she got her position and pulled the ladder up behind her, why would you want a prime minister who is a warmonger, who rips the heart out of countries, why would you want that in a leader of any sex”
tony blair did the same thing but they celebrate him, there's clearly some misogyny going on
Bravo 👏
@@seabreeze4559 Wasn't Tony soon dissed by Progressive folks with the War and his alignment with Bush?
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 no the guardian still loves him
Was that the same woman who said "I'd like to drive a stake into her heart, to make sure she's dead"? Love that woman...
Margaret teacher was like “rights but just for me cuz I deserve it“
yes. in the current world, unfortunately our society and education system has managed to raise men and women like this, too privileged to see out of their bubble or too self centered to think they are the worst victims of life.
@@user-ie1pw1mk6n And when that bubble is bursted, they freak out.
Thatcher is peak "not like other girls" energy. Also, you touched on it a bit, but I think class plays a huge unacknowledged role in conservative female leaders. I mean in order to "do it all" they have to be able to afford a lot of help. I think race plays into it too. Like, conservative upper class white women protect tradition because in a racist patriarchal classist system, they're just one step away from the most privileged social position and they want to protect their place near the top.
Interesting point, I’ll definitely be be thinking about your last point.
Yees, I completely agree. In Denmark a couple of years ago there was a discussion on the pay and dependence (they're usually somewhat dependent on their employer since they live in their house, but I'm not sure what kind of worker rights they have) of au-pair women (especially from Asia) in Danish households.
Some single mothers argued that if they had to raise the pay for their au-pair person, they wouldn't be able to afford them and thus not be in the position they're in at work (most of them were CEOS or other time-consuming things).
They were arguing that it would be against feminism and female empowerment, because raising the au-pair's salary would mean that they wouldn't be able to work the same way their male counterparts can.
Obviously this kind of thing is only available to upper class women. But I think it poses some important questions. 1) Who and how should children be taken care of? I'd say some combination of both parents and public/private (affordable) institutions.
2) How do we give space for women to be able to realistically compete with their male counterparts on the labour market? Maybe by giving men and women an equal amount of paid m/partenity leave? But women have to give birth, maybe give milk, etc., so is it unfair to give an equal amount?
In Denmark the mother has much more martenity leave, the father has some weeks and then they have a pool that they can choose from who gets it. But the thing is that women usually take up most of it and I feel like this kind of reinforces the "traiditional" gender roles and makes it harder for both men and women to do their "opposites".
Sorry for spamming.. just some thoughts, hehe.
Ever seen Mrs America?
Absolutely, not to mention women staying at home was a luxury, as it indicates they can afford to have an adult not getting paid for their labour and be fully dedicated to the family. Poor women have always had to work
Excellent point - and something that I rarely see mentioned when looking at Thatcher's rise from shopkeeper's daughter to first female Prime Minister by sheer force of will and grit is the fact that she married Denis Thatcher, a millionaire and someone with connections to established society and the Conservative party, that allowed her to have access to that table. She didn't do it all herself, no-one does, but she really didn't with that kind of assistance. She achieved what she achieved, but to say that her success was a sign of the end of the gender glass ceiling - or simply that there are significant gender inequalities that hinder women as a gender (and individuals) - is ludicrous.
It's like Donald Trump saying he's a self-made man and excellent business man. Sure Donald, remind me how many hundred million dollars you got from your dad?
“Do you think Margaret Thatcher had girl power?”
"Do you think she effectively used that power in funding illegal paramilitary death squads in Northern Ireland?"
"The problem with pissing on Thatcher's grave is that you eventually run out of piss."
@@ajiththomas2465 I don't know about thaaaat!
@@ajiththomas2465 I wholeheartedly disagree with Thatcher on everything, but still, if you're a man don't fantasize about peeing on a woman's grave, it feels VERY weird and creepy
In my opinion a lot of people use the concept of “meritocracy “ to justify their on lack of empathy. I really hate the mentality if I suffer you have to suffer too, or the mentality of “young people don’t know the hardships of life” like shouldn’t be that the idea to have a better happier future and second that’s fake sadly all generations have their own hardships and pains.
yea, i also thing the same. not suffering enough has became a bad thing. after all the heros are the victim of life.
Hard times create strong men... Strong men great easy times... Easy times make weak men... And weak men make hard times... It's a sad cycle but you're right💔
i humbly disagree with your statement. life is a constant state of suffering, you cant escape suffering. to live is to suffer, this is a broken world and there is no such thing as utopia. the notion "i suffer so you should suffer too" isnt wrong but not as what you think it is. its not wrong because no matter how hard we try to find happiness and avoid suffering, it will always be there. it is what makes us feel. problem will just keep on arising from one thing to another. you will always find people complaining about the littlest thing, thus creating cycle of problem.
im not saying this trying to be edgy or nihilistic, but its been proven for the entire existence of human race. no matter what your beliefs are, we as human agreed that this is a broken world. if youre religious, you know that we are all fallen human thats why we try to do good to be in a better place. if youre not, just look around you. suffering is constant. if you desire, you ought to suffer. only those who manage to be in full control of themselves, and escape worldly tether is able to escape suffering. we as humans share something in common but also individually unique to ourselves. and this alone, is enough to create suffering. we think differently, there will always be disagreement, no matter how hard we try to find middle ground, the losing side will get hurt. we are not in union. we are different, thats why clash happen. trying to be better or accelerate technology isnt going to erase suffering, it will just make certain things easier while a new problem will wait to arise.
@@reigenlucilfer6154 I agree, but this is the type of thought I usually have in my most depressed times. I hope you are okay and doing well.
Although I agree we'll always have sufferings, but I also think the reason we exist is to try to ease that suffering. We're not an union but we can try to be, while also prioritizing the individual self as well. New problems will come, but that doesn't mean we won't solve the problems we have today.
By getting rid of the sufferings we can make our lives better than it was, even if new problems come we'll try to make things even better.
You'll suffer even if it's not like the way I suffered, but if we have the same sufferings than wouldn't it be repeating the circle? Than we as a society will be mass depress. At those times we should focus on the good we have.
@@user-ie1pw1mk6n wrong. The reason we exist is not to ease the suffering (because, how can human fight against something so cosmic and all-encompassing??), but rather to be a stronger and better individual through that suffering.
Excellent analysis. It is true that Margret Thatcher or let's say more recently Trump's Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett have broken the glass ceiling for women in their respective spheres - however, once in power, they've acted against women's interests (as well as men's) by resisting or in some cases reversing much needed gender-equality work. So no, personally, I don't believe there's such thing as conservative feminism. Anyways, I just subscribed. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much ☺️
I do feel like this is the reason that I am very opposed to the conservative feminism/white feminism view that the way to make things more equal is to just stick a load of women into positions of power. Not only is there a chance that the women, like those mentioned above, will have no interest in promoting other women, but it also means that there is no long-term reform of society that will make it easier for other women to do the same thing. There is no challenging of the status quo.
It does seem that there is a movement to re-brand literally anything a powerful woman does as feminist or a "girlboss" moment and it's just...no, unless that woman is campaigning for the political and social equality of women, she is not being a feminist, or at least that is what I think. Me existing isn't ( or shouldn't be) a political statement. And that is putting aside the fact that it is definitely possible for women to be misogynists, and to do things like try to restrict reproductive rights.
@@emma7933 I 100% agree, too many of these "anointed" conservative women of power either have indifference to, or just outright kick the rungs out of the ladders they ascend.....they certainly don't act as a bridge to other women.
At the same time, there is good in showing that women are fully human and can be just as ambitious and wicked as any man. Because hinging female leadership on magical, perfect goddesses that can fix everything is not helpful to women and only opens said female leader to imbalanced criticism compared to her male counterparts
Feminism as a term means different to each individual.
Margaret Thatcher, the Queen, and Anne (slightly) give off high "not like other girls" energy and Diana to them was "like other girls". That is the embodiment of "Conservative Feminism" and "Intersectional Feminism" contrast.
This is what I was thinking, that they want to be above all else. They might not admit it, but it's exacly what it is. Classism is a big part of it to. Also what I noticed in many conservative speakers (men or women) is the arogance "You should stay at home, take care of your childeren and listen to your husband. While I'm here on YT having my carrer, because I can but you don't dare". This double standrad, feeling entitled to dictate other people's lifes, being first to judge without any education on the subject a.k.a. depression is not a thing, transexualism is not a thing etc.
@@rozawrobel5785 Classism colors a lot.
Diana was still a royal, definitely not 'like other girls'
@@jnkrene5600 Well you know what I mean: especially Anne being less girly and more stand offish. She'd be the Cool Girl trope while Diana is the Girly Girl (check out The Take)
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 will do!! thanks for sharing☺️
Gillian really nailed the Iron Lady character. She made you understand but also disagree with her. She played the balance well.
Sadly the show portrayed her weirdly. Not enough screen-time and mostly showed her negative sites. If you want to see a better depiction (in terms of script, not acting, Gillian was wonderful.) I would recommend "The Iron Lady" with Meryl Streep.
@@Antonia-hp5gg do you mean that movie that completely disregarded the struggles of working class miners and tried to make Thatcher a victim there? Nah I'd rather not try and sympathise with a horrid bigot.
hot take: Margaret Thatcher was a pick-me girl
If she was a teenage girl or young adult in 2021, she would always be saying that she's just not like other girl!
Shes the OG "not like other girls"
they are just like the wives in Handmaids' tale
I was just about to say the same thing!
Or like the petits blancs (small whites) in Haiti
Serena Joy was based off of Phyllis Schlafley(An American conservative woman who is pretty similar to Thatcher now that I think about it)
@@pax9821 r/notlikeothergirls and "pick me"s combined
✨Gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss ✨
Honestly I think it is a values vs. beliefs scenario. I am fortunate to know many liberal and conservative women and I find they have similar values: women and men are equal, women’s health and safety, education for upward mobility, safety and well being for children etc. However, their beliefs about how this ought to take place what it looks like in society and whose responsibility it is to enforce these values are often different.
I was thinking the same, at base level the goals are similar, but once you get to how to go about the change things get complicated
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
social liberalism versus economic capitalism yes
there's also now the equality of opportunity paradigm (feminism) and of outcome (marxism), which should be treated as distinct for accuracy because people differ on which part of it is 'fair'
@Jacquline Ard the noisy wheel gets the oil
For me the problem with considering Thatcher as a feminist is that she represent (in public space at least) the embodiment of masculinity.
So saying she has proven that all women can do what they want seems pretty toxic for me, because she just proves that a woman have to become like the men to success like the men. So, in the end the femininity and the feminine women are still seen as inferior to masculinity and men, because it creates this idea that only masculinity is successful in this world (which is maybe true because of capitalism).
France and the US have different politics, so making a distinction between conservative/liberal or between white/intersectional feminism isn't something I find relevant (but I suppose it's just cultural difference), because for me the question is : Do we want women to do like men to have the same value, or do we want women to be seen as equal for what they do even if they're different from men ?
But feminine men also succeed, just because they are men.
But Thatcher was still very much ''feminine'' in the traditional sense. She doted on her husband and children, insisted on being a housewife. It wasn't her ''becoming like men'' that brought her success, it was qualities such as assertiveness, disagreeableness, dominance etc. that helped her push through the ranks. It's the natural order of things, and it doesn't mean that femininity is inferior to masculinity, both have roles that are equally important, although separate.
@Tara I said it in my previous comment, it is the natural order of things. Feminine nature is nurturing, masculine nature is conquering. In order to raise a healthy offspring you need both principles, one to nurture and the other to protect.
The reason people believe that men are at an advantage in the working
world is that men are more likely to possess qualities such as
assertiveness and disagreeableness, which causes people to pay attention to them and think ''hey this guy means business'. Try going out with a big group of people and paying attention to who seems to command the room; it will probably be somebody that has the most prominent masculine qualities of all the people there. It's not some hidden plot conceived to squash femininity, it's just the way the world works
There's an interesting debate to be had around that and first wave feminism. If you look at feminism in the early 20th century, a lot of it was about denying traditional femininity and being more like men (or being free to be more like men). Of course women should be able to embody whatever traits they desire, be they traits perceived as feminine or traits that are viewed as masculine. But what you see in a lot of the 20th century is that feminism was, a lot of the time, about denying those traditionally feminine traits. I think that shows true in how a lot of us had a hatred of pink and anything associated with traditional femininity, we didn't want to be "like other girls", because other girls are ditzy and stupid and vain and we're not like that, we're better than that, we're... like men? That's still somewhat true today, when you see female characters who are idealized and who are considered great feminist role models, a lot of the time, what that entails is denying everything that's feminine about them, and exerting toughness and lack of emotions and all that. But I like that a lot of what modern feminism is about is recognizing that women don't have to be "like men" in order to be respected, that traditionally feminine traits should be perceived as strengths, and that women who "fit the mold" of what's perceived as femininity can still be feminists. I think you make a great point!
@@liv97497 I'm not sure the situation is improving. When I look at mainstream movies, I think the female characters of the 80s - 90s (Terminator, Jurassic Park, Alien, Star Wars, and even The Lord of the Rings) where more positively feminine than the characters we see since the MeToo movement. My favorite character (not just female) was written 40 years ago and I don't find now much example of positive femininity.
Is it just a problem of Hollywood ? Is it just my impression ? Because it seems to me that the feminist movement is more and more in deny of the traditional role of women, and when I speak to young feminist women, I find a lot of mockery to the "pick me girl" and women that are romantic and want marriage and children.
It's the first time I've heard the term "conservative feminism" and I automatically thought about "white feminism". Personally I think that if feminism isn't intersectional, it isn't feminism, but I recently saw a post (in spanish) that said: "just because you're a feminist it doesn't mean you're anti-patriarchy", so yeah, maybe there are different feminisms that change and evolve over time. Idk if I'm making any sense.
It totally makes sense ! I do agree with you that feminism has to be intersectional. My latest video also dealt with 'choice feminism' that is gaining more and more popularity, there are so many forms of feminism it can get confusing at times 😅
African women(not African American) are extremely ambitious but also extremely conservative. It’s a line that can be walked
What the hell is wrong with you people?
@@markm2092 this!!! Why do westerners think their the only conservative femenist literally wait till they find out poc and other women are conservative yet femenist for example malala would be considered conservative to western societies lol
I don't know what they meant but maybe it was something similar to religious fundamentalist feminism. Men sexualize women who they find attractive. The sexualization leads at best to disrespect and at worst to r@pe. Therefore the best way to "protect" women is to make them less appealing. Depending on religion different amount of skin needs to be covered to make a woman happy. Wearing burka (or long sleeve shirts here in West) will make you a more respected member of society
This kind of reasoning strives to make women's life better while still supporting patriarchy. It's still women's job to appeal to men's common decency. Of course it doesn't work since r@pists don't care about your clothes. And yet it's being used by many (usually) religious people pushing for some form of purity culture
It broke my heart when thatcher said her favorite child is her son because he was a man and therefore wasn't a girl and that she loved him for his natural male characteristics...I was crying with the daughter like what kind of bull shit was that logic? A woman doesn't have to shun her femininity away to be taken seriously. thatcher scream mommy issues and ," im a good girl daddy so love me." vibe.
Didn't you hear her line? ""...not because of his sex."
You have to watch out what the Crown says. It's based on history, but not everything is true or characterized correctly.
Great video! Conservative feminism could exist if they start to think that taking care of the family and the house its actually a work. I mean, in Argentina las amas de casas (stay in home moms and grandmas) can access to retirement once they are in their 60.
That's actually pretty good, considering that in many countries stay at home wives have nothing besides their husbands money which means they're financially trapped.
@@natasharules770 exactly! And many of those wives are poor and what is going to happen with them when their husbands die and they are old to step into the workplace? If the conservatives think that "women destiny is to take care of the children because they are the future of the nation" then they must work on politics that will guaranteed the economical future of stay in home wives and moms
@@lailafleisman4681 they wouldn't do that. This is the group of people that say that woman are to 'backbone' of the household or society and that women staying at home is a necessary sacrifice but also say that woman deserve less rights and should submit to their husbands by complete obedience and silence. If you think that women staying at home is so important then why do they do everything to strip those types of women of everything?
You actually could do that too in the U.K. if you voluntarily paid National Insurance but many people don’t know this.
Americans "we need a female head of government, that will really change things!"
Brits "meh"
😂😂
Great video! I'd agree that conservative feminism can't really exist as feminism needs to be intersectional. I think you said "when you compare to liberal women" as a way to contrast with conservative women. However the term 'liberal' in the UK is more associated with the centre of politics, not the left.
Yes you're right ! Thanks for pointing that out ☺️
Conservative Feminism = empower yourself so you can enable policies which negatively affect women who don't have the same opportunities disproportionately.
Women, just work hard and you'll get to join the ranks of men and oppress women (except yourself, of course) *together*! Isn't that inspiring?
Liberal feminism: play victim 24/7 and dehumanize men!
Not all woman are for the liberation of all woman, just the liberation of one woman themselves. It’s why I hesitate to uplift woman simply because they are powerful. It’s a kind of “identity politics” that gives me girl boss vibes. Like some would praise a female dictator because it’s a woman in power. Ignoring the inherently corrupt power structure and the problems with dictatorship. It’s a extreme example but it’s the reason why it’s not enough for woman to just be like men and have the same powers and privileges if they continue to exploit and abuse people like other woman or other minorities. Woman being apart of and upholding the very system that discriminated and oppressed them leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It’s not so revolutionary or impressive. One woman doing well doesn’t do anything for the rest of us. We all need to be doing well and have our rights protected. Also conservative feminism ignores , those of non-heteronormative sexualities like lesbian, bisexual, asexual and more; as well as trans and femmes. Also I dislike that woman have to act like a man and hold male ideas is power to be valid. It leaves a lot of woman behind. We shouldn’t have to be manly or have male validated forms of power to be respected. Nor do we have to achieve the impossible to be worthy. We shouldn’t have to work twice as hard to get half as much. Great thoughtful video.
Fairly unrelated, but my Greek teacher just told an anecdote in class: apparently, his professor's professor was at a classics convention and met Margaret Thatcher in an elevator (poor man). Anyway, she asked him if he was a classicist, if he studied Greek, and if he knew about Thucydides (to which he answered yes). She then told him that Thucydides' book The History of the Peloponnesian War contained the answers to every political question. (I'm paraphrasing because the direct quote relied on emphasis I can't get through written words). Now, I'm no expert on Thucydides, but I did have to read some of his book for a history class, and I can tell you that if you base your political philosophy on his works, you have a very bleak view of humanity.
How are you not more popular???
Yaaaaas she's bomb
She will be soon, I’ve been getting her videos recommended non stop
I agree !!
Because she’s only one of a glut of first-year-humanities-degree-essay-channels-applying ‘problematising-critical-theory’-to-pop-culture that are all exactly the same. Down to the cartoon avatar. It’s incredibly easy. Pick something popular; ask ‘how could this possibly be interpreted as problematic?; get a handful of critical sources; do a voice over; upload.
@@DuskAndHerEmbrace13 Wow that sounds really condescending :)
Thatcher actually seems kinda misogynistic to me I tinhk
She did say at times stuff that could be considered as "feminist" but if you only look at the facts... She did not help women in any way
Thatcher the Reagan of Europe
I do think it's possible to be a conservative feminist, but it's more like you can be conservative in other areas but not your feminism. Tons of people have issues where they disagree with 'their side' but on most other things they agree.
However, you have to actually be a feminist to be a conservative feminist. Simply being a woman in power does not automatically make you a feminist; advocating for gender equality does.
mmm the more I think about it the less I am convinced. Feminism should always be intersectional, meaning you include ALL women, and I feel like conservatives would struggle with that in the department of LGBTQ+ women. Class is another thing to consider, and as far as I’m concerned, conservatives are big believers in meritocracy. But I guess being a feminist in conservative circles, even if it isn’t as inclusive as it is in left-wing circles, is kind of a merit on its own, given how little I feel conservatives care about women’s rights. Oh, yeah, forgot about abortion too (although I’m a little more lenient in this area).
I just feel like if a conservative woman actually supports feminism the way I just described, maybe she’s not as conservative as she might think. But hey, I can’t really tell people what they are or aren’t. I just feel like “conservative feminism” is kind of an oxymoron.
I read an interesting survey that men are more likely to want free abortion services, to evade responsibility for their actions, including criminal actions. So it's interesting to look at what the sexes actually believe and how this can be financially and legally self-interested while pretending to 'care' about 'rights' of the other.
@@beckypotato3295 intersectionality is a marxist idea which came much later, feminism in equality of opportunity is CENTURIES old and honestly later marxist ideas should be correctly labelled as an additional paradigm (of outcome)
@@seabreeze4559 ok
Thatcher in general had a rather harsh attitude to anyone who wasn’t like her. I think she just didn’t see the point in „giving an advantage“ to anyone as long as she was able to do it. She was happy to live in the society as it is right now, because she herself managed to succeed in it. Especially because she didn’t feel like the movement did anything for her situation (she apparently said that in an interview) she thought that it wasn’t a problem for her to address. She was raised by a very religious and hardworking father, which gave her this „Hard work is the only way a society is morally good“ mentality. It seems like she passionately avoided changing old fashioned views and values. Kinda weird considering how radical she was with other changes during her time as prime minister, but it does fit with her character and overall lack of empathy.
It reminds me a lot of the Miss America series, especially in the portrayal of Phyllis Schlaffly. The show does an excellent job of showing how misogyny is something all women face, including her. However, her response is to use her power to undermine feminist movements. It doesn't remove her from the sexism she faces, but it certainly does not mean she is a feminist just because she holds a positionof power.
Thatcher's answer to women having roles in politics was hard work. As you said and I quote "Thatcher believes that women shouldn't be victims of their circumstances". She does not think *broad* enough and that hints to her conservative feminism! Instead of saying to women that they have to break those obstacle-ing circumstances through hard work she could've work on WRECKING THOSE GENDER BIASED CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE FIRST PLACE and give ALL women of all shapes and sizes an obstacle-less... um life? u know? it's all about perspective and she lacked of it.
These are all great points I'd never considered before, since I don't tend to think of conservative women as "feminists." In general, it seems like they are the type of woman that is approved of by the patriarchy (Christian, middle or upper class, often white, straight and cis, willing and able to be the traditional wife and mother, "modest" or whatever that means), and really loves that approval since it makes them the "right" kind of woman. They see themselves as having succeeded *because* of the patriarchy, rather than in spite of it. They think that other women will only succeed if and when they act more like them, essentially putting the onus and the blame on other women for not changing themselves to gain the approval of the patriarchy, like they did. Basically, the "feminism" of most conservative women can boil down to "women are every bit as capable of succeeding as men, but only if they are the right type of woman." It is not systemic problems like sexism, homophobia, classism, and racism that stops some women from succeeding, merely their "attitudes."
my exact thoughts!
I call them "Alienated" basically means that these women share the same belief system as their opposite.
Gatekeep Gaslight Girlboss
Even if I was personally the most conservative, demure, receptive, meek and conventionally feminine woman, I would feel safer in a society that did not stigmatize and criminalize my freedom to be anything BUT.
It would even better serve conservative women to live within a boundary that isn’t a small sample size. They can always do less, work less, earn less, depend on men more, in their own personal lives of that’s ideal for them- without sentencing other women to the same ill-fitted dress.
somehow it feels like shes less of a woman because she has a learned behaviour of masculinity which probably got her to the position of prime minister in the first place, not that its a bad thing, it just sucks that the world rewards women for shedding their "feminine" characteristics and points of view in favor of the more corporate malevolence that is masculinity in politics...
The prime minister of New Zealand is an example of a successful female leader that refuses to change her feminine traits.
even tho thatchers awful she isn’t “less of a woman” due to her masculinity...? that’s quite an unfair statement to make and implies women are less of women when they’re in power.
@@lolololololutrythcfy This.
She's not less of a woman. Her gender never changed. It also depends on what you define "femininity" as. I don't believe femininity is wearing a skirt or dress.
I don't like the implication in this comment that it's masculinity is a "learned behavior" while femininity is something that's shed. Both femininity and masculinity are taught and women are not automatically or naturally more feminine. A masculine woman has not necessarily learned to be masculine or "shed her feminine characteristics" more so than a feminine woman has learned to be feminine or "shed her masculine characteristics".
Every time I hear women are equal but different from men it makes me think of "separate but equal" from the segregation rulling. Ik it's not the same thing but they sound similar have similar vibes and it gives me the heebie-jeebies.
But women are different from men.... a good place to start it to observe each gender’s physical capabilities and attributes
@@elisaa9855 Biologically we are different, in very trivial ways that don't really affect how a person acts or thinks. So, beneath the skin, we are the same
@@trashgoblin1182 Yeh.
thatcher was indeed a woman-hater and i stand by that
Obama is the "black" version of Margaret Thatcher, explains why he liked her.
SORRY👏NOT 👏SORRY!
it’s really not debated that he’s black
What did Obama do that was disrespectful to the Black community?
@@pravneeet4873 I don't consider biracial people to be either black or white.
Sorry.
@@laurenj432 He lied about flint and did nothing to adress the severity of the issue.
He had a poor responce to police brutality, BLM started under Obama.
Obama increased and supported policies that favoured private prisons and mass incarceration.
He increased the wars in the middle east and expanded it's territory.
He did very little to help the black community, all he really gave was platitudes. " hope" and " change"
What did obama do to help us?
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
BTW I'm not a conservative or a republican.
@@nataliekhanyola5669 Really? Cause that sounds a lot like all the things conservatives disliked about him. -a libertarian
I feel like the concept of conservative feminism is inherently contradictory to modern liberal feminism. In order to create an equal and just society we need to acknowledge that women are at a disadvantage simply for being women. I also think conservative feminism generally excludes transgender women which means it doesn’t support and represent all women. I understand and commend Thatcher having made a place for herself, but it’s dismissive of women who don’t have the resources to do the same. Really interesting video!
Thank you for your comment!
I feel that's a bit of a reductive view. Disadvantaged in comparison to who? As a white working class male of decent education, who has struggled with unemployment for his whole adult life, I am receiving no benefits ahead of women. In fact I have personally witnessed job vacancies I applied for be filled by women who aren't good enough to do the job. Sex is a non issue in the modern western world.Women rise to positions of power, they run businesses, they fight wars. They even have advantages in certain matters like divorce custody settlements. The real issues in modern society are a matter of class and race and affect men and women alike.
🤦🏽♀️The point flew right over your head. It’s not reductive let me see of I can explain it better. In hopefully clearer terms: Women as a whole have less advantages and more disadvantages , whereas men as a whole have more advantages and less disadvantages based on their gender alone.It doesn’t mean that every single individual woman is disadvantaged in every aspect of their life or every individual man is advantaged in every aspect of their life. Just because not every single man is successful and thriving, doesn’t negate the systemic discrimination/oppression based on gender/sex in the West.L. Of course race and class impact sexism. A able-bodied woman may get further in life than a man with disabilities. But a man with disabilities compared to a woman with disabilities has little to no disadvantages in terms of their gender alone. Advantages simply mean you have less obstacles not that you have more benefits. It’s the same with “white privilege”; it doesn’t mean every single white person is having a perfect problem free life; it means you don’t have problems associated with your race which is where the privilege comes from a lack of discrimination for one area of your life, your race. Coming back to woman and sexism, Woman have problems specifically tied to their gender gender regardless of the other area of their life, whereas men don’t have obstacles inherent due to their gender. You’re not getting better simply because you’re a man you’re not having problems simply because you’re a woman. It’s doesn’t mean you can’t have struggles or problems. In terms of race and class mattering more yes which is why there is unfortunately a hierarchy amongst woman that divides of with our race, class, sexuality, gender expression, etc. Often class struggles amongst other identity markers matter more than gender or even race. Rich woman aren’t facing the same discrimination as a poor woman, they exist in two very different circles. A rich black person isn’t going to relate to a poor black person, or face the same experiences their wealth can insulate them a bit better from discrimination, of course. So you have some points but it’s a bit more nuanced. Anyway, I hope that made sense. 🤷🏽♀️
@@kitvaneceon7568You're wrong.
I recently happened to see several of your videos in my YT recommendations and took the plunge today.
Man, the content is really as great as I hoped it'd be!!! On my way to the subscribe button...🏃♀️
(rien à voir mais j'admire ton choix de l'anglais pour t'exprimer sur ta chaîne. Je pense que c'est une très bonne stratégie pour toucher un plus large public et j'espère que tu auras beaucoup de succès !)
I think conservative feminism is odd, like being religious(not spiritual) and lgbtq+. The ideologies contradict each other :^/
for me, not really. i think christianity, in its essence, is about loving everyone. though for me, i choose to ignore and completely disagree with the idea that homosexuality is immoral. hmmm idk but i do agree that these ideologies do contradict each other, like in other religions.
@@fresapreso1491 For me it's a problem of how the community is now. I'm a Christian, but not really a traditional one, so I don't find problems with homosexuality. I know I'm not the majority, but it doesn't mean I'm less right in my faith than them. I know a guy who is homosexual, but still consider himself a Muslim, despite the hatred he faced from is community. It's hard, but in the end your faith only depend on you, not of what the other think.
I really wish people would stop saying “religion” when they actually mean “conservative branches of Abrahamic faiths, especially Catholicism and Evangelicalism.”
@@HandJvlogs you realise that's a lot more words right?
I get your point but yeah this comparison doesn't make any sense
There’s no such thing as a conservative feminist, just women who are restoring and maintains an establishment that ultimately oppresses them. Instruments of their own demise.
so so true
Through and through Boss Babe moment.
I’m so glad I stumbled upon your video! I few years ago I wrote an off the cuff essay about Margaret Thatcher for a class where I had the painful task of arguing that she was a ✨shining example✨ of a feminist. I found it a difficult concept to parse both accurately and objectively
I think an interesting way to look at it is this: Thatcher was another great example that a woman should be able to define herself in any way she choses. We ought to be careful our discussion of her, despite whether she was a "good" feminist figure or not (seems a bit like a pick me girl to me) , that we don't diminish her _importance_ as a feminist figure. She was as powerful as it is possible to get in British politics and she was the first woman to do so. My fear is that, because feminism is still a highly debated critical space and we are still defining what it 'should be', is that we hold her to a different standard to her male counterparts - who, if judged by already establish patriarchal standards, we would view as heroically strong. Our expectation of Maggie to be conform to 'feminine' traits like gentleness, warm and affectionate motherhood; even to act on behalf of womankind is in itself 'anti-femenist' - we hold no expectation to men to do these things.
This comment is underrated! You got my like!
1:40 "thatcher did not despise women but she didn't do anything for them..." This is so funny and sad because the same can be said for Barack Obama to black Americans🙃💔
La tasse à l’intro Allez les Bleus, oui je l’ai remarquée 😉. Je suis une nouvelle abonnée et je binge tes vidéos d’une manière assez problématique depuis quelques jours 😅. J’adore ton contenu, c’est toujours bien recherché et tes positions sont vraiment super intéressantes!! Bref, tes vidéos sont vraiment supers et rafraîchissantes. Beaucoup d’amour du Québec
😂😂 Merci beaucoup Annabelle! 🥰
so happy to have found your channel :) binging on your videos right now and i’m so glad you’re a new youtuber so you will still post!!!!
Yes I will!! 😁😊
did you know that the song "the witch is dead" from the wizard of oz was number one on the charts the day after maggie thatcher died? Literal DECADES after the song came out
I'm confused, was Thatcher supposed to do something for women? 😄
I have to day I'm really enjoying tour content so I'd like to share an idea that I always had in mind when thinking about the British monarchy: their history and moreover their power directly comes from the fact that in the XVI century king Henry the eight established divorce and broke with Catholic Christianity, at the time the official and supposedly true way of Christianity.. I don't really understand why conservatives anglican Christians with the British monarchy above all would not embrace divorce as a legitimate resource instead of an issue..
I definitely see where you're coming from but I think that the supposed justification behind Henry VIII's divorce was because his current wife was failing to produce any male heirs to the throne. Furthermore, there were many other reasons for the split from Rome in 1533. Now that there is much more more political stability, this cannot really be used as a justification and so divorce is generally seen as an absolute last resort in highly conservative settings, such as within the royal family. It's also worth considering that Henry VIII has a terrible reputation for greed, extravagance and cruelty due to his treatment of his wives, which is not something that the royal family want to recreate. You're right that their opposition to divorce is totally unreasonable, but I just think that there is some kind of explanation for such attitudes.
I must say, I am bit sceptical of the idea of being a feminist and a conservative at the same time, but I would definitely like to talk to a conservative feminist if one indeed exists.
Today, I stumbled upon your channel. I really enjoy your content!
To answer your open-ended question, if Thatcher was portrayed semi-accurately in Crown Season 4, then I believe Thatcher was not a role model for feminism. Aside from gatekeeping opportunities from women, she did not seem to help any of the British working-class men and women. The analogy that was used in Crown Season 4 by, apparently, Thatcher about nurses... was out of touch with reality. There is nothing wrong with thinking that someone has made it in life through their hard work, but there is a lot wrong with using comparison to shame people into staying oppressed and helpless. There is plenty of privilege in the backstory of Margaret Thatcher. Her father was a multiple business owner. She continued on with her education when many couldn't. She was able to get a political seat. This sort of privilege can be seen in the backstory of Bill Gates whom many bring up as a talking point for "pulling yourself up from the bootstraps" and bring people to shame. Bill Gates was the child of a banker, and he was put into an academy with developing computers in his middle school years. To bring it back to the point, "boss babe feminism" or "girl boss feminism", like the way Thatcher portrays herself, does not recognize its privilege that comes from generational wealth. There is nothing wrong with portraying oneself as "masculine", but there is a lot wrong with using "masculinity" as a way to gain validation from men while condemning "femininity" or women. In that sense, "conservative feminism" does not hold any feminist values because there is nothing feminist about putting down women and the working class. There is nothing feminist about comparison, shame, oppression, upholding the status quo, and gender norms. If anything, Thatcher is an internalized misogynist with fragile femininity and a token for the conservative party.
saw the title and was like "i'm so clicking on this"
Great to hear a French perspective on "The Crown." I am an American Anglophile who enjoys the series "The Crown." I do however have some French heritage and I do follow political events in France. I would love to hear your take though on Marine Le Pen.
Well it risk being quite long, because the situation now is complicated and evolve very quickly. And it would be impossible to speak of Marine Lepen to a foreign public without explaining the political environment (because we have way more than 2 party) and the situation with the Macron presidency. I tried to explain the situation to an American friend once, and it took an hour at least Lol.
I think a large reason why Margaret Thatcher didn't have many women in her cabinet was because there just wasn't that many female MPs. And even less good candidates for cabinet, considering even fewer had long term experience in parliament. There was probably also an aspect of sexism to it, but appointing a bunch of women to the cabinet wouldn't have been easy.
But there were women in cabinets of former prime minister's before Thatcher
@@jared1964 I honestly don't know too much about it. I just felt that an important thing to mention would be that there weren't that many female MPs who had the qualifications. I thought the video brushed by so quickly as if to give the viewer the thought "Oh it should have been 50/50".
If the % of women in cabinet wasn't really proportionate to the % of women in parliament then yeah it's a problem.
Does anyone else think that "The Crown" is just a modern day version of the Shakespear play "Richard the 3rd" in that it's transparently a propaganda piece meant to legitimize the current monarch?
Tatcher crawled out of hell to curse the world in 1959
Learning that Margaret Thatcher of all people was subjected to judgement for her motherhood just gives me schadenfreude. A woman who made it objectively harder for British working class families to support themselves through her policies perhaps shouldn't receive too much sympathy, when her toxic ideological beliefs were turned against her.
Also, when is Britain going to take a leaf from India? We got rid of all our monarchs in 1972. Monarchy is an anachronism, even if it is constitutional. It is hard to take a nation that fawns over a queen seriously.
I do think there is such a thing as "conservative feminism", but it's not necessarily a good thing. It has a lot of the same traits as other conservative beliefs eg neoliberalism and social darwinism that leads to meritocratic "pull yourself up by your bootstraps, if I made it so can you" mentality and generally also to white nationalism. Conservative "feminist" women will recognise the value of women and believe that women should have some form of equality but also believe that we already do (basically because the system worked for them, and they refuse to see why it doesn't apply to everyone else, like most conservatives think). So yeah, conservative feminism is definitely a right-wing though women-centric ideology, whereas radical/intersectional feminism is a left-wing women-centric ideology that believes in more socialist ideas of equality between all people and class analysis.
It's so important for content creator to be unbiased and look at both side. Which many of the content creator lack. Most of the YT content creator are doing what mainstream media does, that is create sensational taglines with extreme hardliners mentality. Sell your souls. 👍👍👍
This was so insightful ! Please do videos in French sometimes Alice, I would be there quick
Thank your for your great analysis! This reminds me of a book called “decolonize your memory, deconolizing feminisms” by Adriana Guzman Arroyo and she aludes that women in university or politics isn’t a big step bc university isn’t made to be “a feminist or to question your system or oppression”. It’s actually made by patriarchy and it educates women to think “like men”. One would think that being a educated woman, she would use it for the good of another women, it will be for her own interests and their male gang. So, that’s why there are women doctors or lawyers who are very sexist and in general.
Personally, as a brown Latin woman, I don’t thinks there is a feminism without intersectionality, and these white women are preaching for their rights in her own privileges (white skin and also for educated and rich women). And it will be very hypocritical to call it feminism in any way when their politics are exploiting another women, poor women, black women, immigrant women, in their own country and also, in conquered countries, in Africa or Asia for instance. I don’t blame them bc even the queen is a good patriarchy daughter and even so, she has to accomplish this “extra work” as a woman we are forced to. Even her circle is full of man, Queen or Megan will never be a man and will never have their privileges. They are still a product, who is good, a mother, “something you can style” and in this case, also a tool.
I think conservative feminism does exist, has a place in discourse and its growing - but its still separate from hard line conservativism. I would see people like Christina Hoff Sommers and Camille Paglia as conservative feminists; who would advocate civil liberties while reinforcing natural and innate differences between men and women, as well as social hierarchy and structure. One of the core tentes of conservative feminism would be a deep appreciation of men and masculinity.
I'm happy for finding out about this channel through this video
C'est vraiment passionnant Alice. Ce qui m'a fait sourire dans the Crown c'est de voir Miss Maggie tenir un conseil des ministres en faisant à manger dans sa cuisine avec un tablier !
I like this video a lot. I’m thinking of covering The Crown on my channel from a law angle 😺
I love your content you go straight to the point but still they are informative ✨✨✨
I've been recently getting into your videos and they're well done! It's definitely a food for thought
As for this topic, I also think that conservativism inherently disagrees with feminism, but it's a very interesting phenomenon that conservative women in politics definitely have feminist motives themselves, while also most of the time doing the exact opposite from the feminist pov. I once watched a fragment of an interview with Thatcher and in the comments someone asked "Did Thatcher have girl power?". Obviously it was a troll question, but it made me think - did she? Do conservative women in politics use feminism in their actions/are their positions based on feminism? They want to be liberated and decide for themselves, while also preventing other women not in power to do so because of their politics.
"Do you think she effectively used that [girl] power in funding illegal paramilitary death squads in Northern Ireland?"
"The problem with pissing on Thatcher's grave is that you eventually run out of piss."
Your camera confidence and editing are extremely good for a channel that started only three years ago. What is your video and acting background and education? Well done.
I think Thatcher is certainly an interesting character. Like there's so much too her, clearly she was a deeply divisive politican but alot of people I loved her. I'd be curious to know her thoughts on feminism etc etc & where she saw herself in it.
That's it, I'm subscribing. Where have you been til now?
I don't know if conservative feminism as described here can exist but I do know many conservative women(generally POC) who are strong feminists.
Just because a conservative woman can help advance all women, does not make her in herself a feminist. She just becomes an example for what women are capable of.
In 1980 I voted for Ronald Reagan solely for his defense program. I was in the army from 1977 - 1980. We were not prepared to fight a war with Russia. They had built 45,000 tanks, they had a very aggressive stance on chemical warfare, they had missiles with 25 megaton warheads aimed at our major cities. A 25 megaton warhead is 1,667 times more powerful than the bomb that fell on Hiroshima. It is equal to 30,006 kilotons of nuclear explosive power. The bomb that fell on Hiroshima was roughly 18 kilotons. It wasn't just their military capability that scared me. It was their history. The May 2, 1982 issue of "The New Republic" magazine estimated that during his lifetime Joseph Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 80 million people. I liked Margaret Thatcher because she was in favor of a strong defense. ........... I don't have a problem with Russia's Communist system. A socialist system might be the best system for dealing with global warming. I wasn't in favor of Margaret Thatcher's social agenda, but in 1980 I would have voted for Genghis Khan if he would have increased our military spending. ....... Today the U.S. military is tied up in these brushfire wars that are draining our treasury. It reminds me of the war in Vietnam. Maybe we could have "won" the Vietnam War with a different strategy, but what would we have won if we did that? We would have had to deal with a shell shocked country bound by systemic corruption. ........... I don't know if you could say the U.S. is guilty of a holocaust. We killed a lot of Native Americans, but I don't know if the numbers rise to a level of a holocaust. The U.S. fought with the Indians for over 200 years. If it was a holocaust it was a slow motion holocaust. I've seen sources that say that the U.S. killed a million Philipinos during the Spanish American War. I've seen other sources that say it was more like 200,000. The Spanish spread diseases in South America that killed many millions of people in South America, but that is a different culture than the one in the U.S. I've heard sources say that the plagues spread by the Spanish were inevitable and unavoidable. We did engage in some pretty nasty bombing raids on both Japanese and German cities in World War II, but they were necessary to win the war. Some of the bombing raids on Japanese cities were just as bad as the bomb that fell on Hiroshima, but no one is very interested in those.
Many things listed about conservative feminism explain much about the specified thought process of women republican lawmakers in the states whereas they wouldn’t fit into the other forms of feminism that are more well known. I would have to say that the closest form of feminism to conservative feminism is liberal feminism.
Both get by on the belief that you just have to work hard to succeed as a women, both are about upholding the patriarchy or finding a place in said patriarchy that inherently oppresses women on a systemic level, and both are very exclusionary as the only kind of women who usually can fit into both are white cis and able bodied. Aka, just aspiring female ceos.
But the key difference between the two that is akin to the difference between the democratic and republican parties are their platforms. Though liberal feminism is inherently shallow and definitely leans towards more conservative ideals, it still has founded its self on progressive talking points and at the least appearance wise aligns its self with progressivism(even though its a farce).
While conservative feminism is at that weird crossroads where while unlike the liberal version is brutally honest about its conservative beliefs and guidelines, that said ideology from is conception contradicts with the idea of women taking up any leadership role outside the home at all, and so like liberal feminism can be viewed as hypocritical in both concept and action.
To me, to choose which one is better is to have to choose between the lesser of two evils. Would I want a Nancy Pelosi as president, or would I want a Marjorie Taylor Greene(both who perfectly represent those in power of their respective parties). Obviously I’ll choose Pelosi, bc even though both parties are corrupt, just like conservative a liberal feminism, by their platform alone, they are still nowhere on the same level.
4:21 She has nothing to do with William tho conqueror she is from a German Dynastie the last Monarch of the French Dynastie was Elizabeth I
I didn't know your channel. It looks great. Subscribing right now.
Talking alternate formats of feminism, any familiarity with Mary Harrington? I notice she's been on a few Rebel Wisdom-associated discussion and Benjamin Boyce's channel and I think one of her primary observations has been the break of market dynamics with women's interests as well as bringing a similar skepticism about western 'myth of progress' to what I've seen in John Gray's writings.
So Margaret Thatcher is the Ultimate Pick Me Girl!
Ohh I love this channel! Always very construtive!
I hope to God we find a future in which governors are expected to be people and women such as Thatcher hold the same credibility as Jake Paul and Jeff Bezos. First of all we're people, second of all we're women and as such, we deserve to live our lives in benefit of our communities rather than command at our own expense.
I like your content. watching you from Moldova
Tangential, but in almost every modern-day detective show, the lead policewoman apparently can’t conduct an investigation thoroughly without losing custody of her kids or otherwise having a complete breakdown of the mother-child relationship. Quite a writing/producing choice.
This is seldom a problem that male coppers seem to encounter in fiction (their wives or girlfriends tend to be dead, and they’re busy but devoted single dads is the trope there).
Would you make more French videos please? 🥺🥺🥺
I find it very interesting that those conservative women in power are often quite masculine - so they break with their traditional female role - while they propagate traditional gender roles. I think this is also where America is quite different from Europe and the UK. Here in Europe, the more conservative women are more masculine, while Republican women are often quite feminine. Just compare Angela Merkel and Hillary Clinton. I wonder why that is.
Conservative women who have a bootstrap mentality and actively work to aid a system that oppresses themselves and so many others aren’t feminist.
Women and all oppressed people shouldn’t have to work twice as hard just to be heard or seen or valued.
I think for women who are white, cis and straight-navigating these systems isn’t as difficult so the concept of those women telling other women who are worse off socially that they just need to work harder feels disingenuous and a bit offensive.
I don’t think that celebrating people who prop up oppressive systems is a very feminist thing to do.
Well you kind of have to believe in human rights if you want to be a feminist, so the answer for Thatcher and the Queen is a definitive no.
Women get those roles in political appointments, because they are more likely to come from relevant fields. We are more likely to get a female secretary of education or health & human services, than defense or attorney general, because we are more likely to find women who are teachers, doctors, social workers or diplomats (three presidents in a row had female Secs of State) than we are to find female soldiers, cops or criminal attorneys.
It has nothing to do with conservative ideology. In fact, Margaret Thatcher was a war hawk and she was criticized in "The Crown" for NOT taking care of the people of Britain. Yes, she compared her ideology to philosophies of medical care, but so did the US President Franklin Roosevelt, who held office from 1933-1945, and was a progressive Democrat, who would have best fit with the Labour Party or a Socialist Part in Europe. When the war broke out, he said "Dr New Deal" will have to make way for "Dr Win the War". The New Deal was his social assistance and economic relief program and he was letting people know that his administration's priority had to change to winning the war over domestic caretaking.
The Crown/Thatcher are not true Feminists. Thatcher was right re to some major stuff but wrong re to some domestic policy stuff. They are essentially elitists but in different ways. U are right re to the Monarchies. As an American, I am opposed to any Monarchy obviously, but any nation can govern themselves the way they want. Very insightful video. True Feminism is not about Elitism.
Love 🎉
Thatcher was most definitely not a feminist
Did Margaret Thatcher have ‘Girl Power?’
and did she utilise it effectively when deploying death squads in northern ireland
Great content! I hope your Channel is gonna grow
Femmenist: we need more women in government.
Republican women: get elected
Femmenists: no not those women.
1) Learn to spell
2) This is about Thatcher who is a British Conservative most definitely not a republican as she didn’t advocate for abolishing the monarchy
3) if female politicians don’t actually do anything to help with the problems women face in society and restrict access to abortions then it is pointless that they were elected. It might as well be a man. I don’t actually believe women should be elected because of their gender but because of their competency
@@cammiehalliday757 women aren’t women unless they think the same thing as you, beleive the same thing as you and align with you politically.
Good to know
Hey US polity professional here- republican and conservative have not always been interchangeable, and the values associated with modern "R" were actually originally "D" politically (roles switched when the party divided in two). More class, slavery and other issues not as easily translated in the context of R and D as it is in other terms synonymous with their modern counterparts.
Reminds me Queen Victoria too. While she wrote about the problems women go through, she was very vocal against women's sufferage, even so far to stated they should be whipped.
Highly recommend reading Right Wing Women by Andrea Dworkin, if you haven't
The thing is, as feminism has grown and embraced intersectionality, pro lgbt rights, and has created discourse around class and race ( and caste, if you look at India), the definition of feminism has undergone a cultural and sociological shift, allowing it to not be as one dimensional as it used to be before. It is, like you said, allowing itself to lead forward a nuanced understanding of what women face around the world. But regardless of Thatcher not being able to accept these complexities, one cannot question the contribution she has made, just by being herself, occupying a high office, being able to express and formulate policies in the way that she has- all of it is thanks to her having had an opportunity to do so, regardless of her supposed merit. That, in itself, is one aspect of feminism. I guess we can appreciate that while knowing fully well that conservative feminism is outdated now, and honestly serves no point in today's time. Maybe, at that time, though, it spearheaded change.
love it
honestly the issue of thatcher just .... screwed the miners over busted unions etc and we're supposed to admire and respect this woman who basically destroyed middle class ignored all the finanical issues sent millons of middle classs people into poverty and homelessness and basically said "let them eat cake" But a Woman did it so I guess what we're supposed to kiss her ring? Fuck that.
No. I don't think its possible. Because honestly empowering ONE woman at the Expense of all of society is not feminism.
Maybe I have a linguistic bias here. Because in my language "conservar" means to keep things as they are (or as they were) "conservar" is by definition to stop evolution and change. And that is what politicians that we call "conservadores" look for. So by the very definition of the words, consevative feminism (feminismo conservador), is an imposibility and a total contradiction.
Maybe we could speak about liberal feminisim but I can't even think about conservative feminisim.
The emphasis in "environmentalism" goes on the "ment"