I am Greek Orthodox, but I have nothing but love and respect for our Coptic Orthodox brothers and sisters. Every time I have attended a service in a Coptic church, I have felt right at home, it is such a beautiful expression of Orthodoxy. Thank you for doing this interview!
I pray that Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox are united again. We are so close to the same, much more so than a Calvinist, Baptist or most other Protestant churches.
Coptic Church and other oriental churches (Ethiopian, Armenian, Indian etc.) are the same Orthodox churches. The main reason of the schism was politics, not theology. So I really hope we will reunite soon again. 🙏
@@maybesometime3713That's only a line repeated by those who have never actually read the acts of Chalcedon, The council itself is a radical and professing it is either a heresy or a sin depending on the beliefs of the one professing it. As such unity can only become a reality when both parties proclaim the 12 anathemas of Saint Cyril and by doing so also condemn the Council of Chalcedon
I am an Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido believer. As our Copt brother we count our selfs as one Alexandrian church from St. Mark. We love you our Egyptian christian brothers.
@@justinaacuriouswanderer1496 I agree politics aren’t fun. However it’s above my position, I would like us to be completely reunited formally in Christs church and be one 😊. I pray the leaders of both our churches can resolve this long dispute
@@bbehzadi413 So I was born in Egypt as part of the Coptic church, but I kind of identify more with the Greek/American Orthodox church and it just grieves my heart we even have to discuss our ever-present unity that I have witnessed, having spent 16 yrs in the Coptic church and 6 in the Greek. Even in things as small as a matanya, both churches are truly the same, and I don't get it how they still haven't signed up. You'd be truly concerned when you read Galatians 5:20-21 CSB
@Justina - the Copts are the most ‘Greek’ of the OO. Our Church isn’t monolithic and has more diversity in tradition. I pray that you be able to receive communion from any OO church one day. God Bless.
I am getting an icon of the 21 Holy Martyrs of Libya soon. Their story touched my heart deeply. God bless all of the Copts and Ethiopians. May we achieve true unity under a single Orthodox theological understanding. From an Eastern Orthodox brother ☦️🕊️
Sigh. Our positive response to their martyrdom, is likely why The Archbishop of Aleppo was “Disappeared” rather than outright martyred. We have NO SURE idea as to what happened to him, and can’t 100% rule out that he’s still alive somewhere, enduring years of torment for Christ.
I keep an icon of them in my prayer corner. Because of their martyrdom I was made aware of Orthodoxy and was later received into the (Eastern) Orthodox church. I pray we one day reunite with our Coptic brothers.
Thank you for making this video, Austin. I’m Coptic Orthodox and I feel so blessed to be a part of my community. Fr Anthony beautifully and simply explained church history that led us to where we are today. God bless you Fr. Anthony! I’m praying for the Orthodox Church to be one again, hopefully in our lifetime.
What a beautiful interview! Lord have mercy and bring unity in Your church! As and orthodox Christian, with fear, I believe it is a blessing to suffer persecution in the name of Christ! We are not of this world and our success should not be measured according to this world! Glory to Hod for all things 🙏
I would love to thank you for your channel and work. Honestly, I feel it is overdue: because I've been watching for a couple of years, and what you do is the most honest and sincere. Going to churches and hosting professional speakers & clergy to explain their faith, theology, & history. From Protestants to Orthodox to Roman Catholics, I thank you for your integrity. Coming from a Coptic Orthodox background, I was wondering to reach out and suggest this, but there you go. Thank you again.
RUclips needs more content like yours. Thankyou for your humble and sincere questions!! I never knew the differences between The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches. Here from Oriental Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. 😊
@@LadyMaria long story fr but i really admire the faith that Coptic Orthodoxy has, how they handled the martyrdom of the 21 martyrs in Libya really inspired me when i learned about it in 2020. i thought to myself “i want the faith that they have” and just went from there i guess
@@angelamegale the Miaphysite expression goes back to ST. Cyril of Alexandria when he was confronting Nestoreanisim it refers to the oneness of Christ personhood, and the church before the division agreed to it, that is why ST Mary is called theotokos. it’s not just an oriental thing. The main problem now is the use of Arabic language to refer to hypostasis as nature because Arabic doesn’t have an equivalent word. that is what I have noticed as an Arabic speaker.
Fantastic interview with Fr. Anthony. I loved especially his reflections on what the Coptic Church can offer to the Christian community. I learned so much from this. Thank you.
Thank you so much for doing this interview. It’s such a blessing to hear from Fr Anthony Mourad. I have grown to love Orthodoxy more because of Fr Mourad’s COA channel. God Bless
I’m EO and joyfully share the faith of Abuna. At our parish and on my wall near my home altar is the icon of these new martyrs of Egypt with their newly-baptized-in-blood Muslim co-worker, whose prayers I request daily for all suffering Christians. God forgive our division and heal it at the prayers of His mist pure Mother, the Apostles, and those Alexandrian lights, Athanasius & Cyril.
EO and love our Oriental Brethren, as did our dear Bishop Dimitry of Dallas, who helped establish Oriental Parishes in DFW, despite the messyness of it all.
Eastern Orthodox layman here. I like the Oriental Orthodox very much, one of my good friends is a Copt and he's one of the most pious and kind people I know. Oriental Orthodox are our siblings in Christ, despite some differences in views.
I also come from a non denominational big church. We can sit in comfy sofa or chairs and drinking our morning coffee during the church service. After I get much closer to God by practicing Christian spirituality tradition, like contemplative prayer (the Jesus prayer), I feel that in modern church Sunday service, the reverence for God is lacking. The setting, the music and sermon are more tailored made for satisfying human’s needs instead.
Maybe you should read about the Early Church and see how really, much of modern day Christianity has to do with us and nothing to do with worshiping God. I came from a Methodist background until I started to look at historical Christianity.
We have a good amount of Ethiopian folks in our EO parish who originally attended an OO church. They were accepted into communion by confession of faith.
Thank you Austin and Father Anthony for this interview. Such good stuff! I have been attending Coptic Orthodox Churches for the last 2 months or so and can say they have been such a light in my life. May be joining officially soon, but in the right time I’ll see. Thank you again for the interview.
@Gospel Simplicity - your channel is amazing and it’s wonderful to finally see the OO represented. Please don’t stop with our Coptic brothers 🙏 It would be great to see you interview our fathers in Christ from the other broad traditions within the OO - the Syrian and Armenian traditions and maybe even the distinct traditions within those traditions! For instance, the Syriac Orthodox and Indian Orthodox are both Syrian. The Ethiopian/Eritrean tradition is basically Coptic but still distinct from the Coptic Church. The Eastern and Western Armenians are both Armenian. If I may say so, among the RC, the EO and OO, we OO are the fewest in number but Glory to God, the most diverse in terms of our rites, traditions, and ecclesiastical hierarchies, while still being one in faith.
I've been looking forward to this for a very long time. The Coptic Orthodox church has been a bit of a blank spot when it comes to my knowledge of various Christian denominations, but that I've really been wanting to know more about (and the same thing goes for the Armenian Apostolic church, and the various other churches they're in communion with). But I've often found it challenging to learn more about it because the information I've found in English is often either too superficial, offering only the most brief and basic comparisons between the Coptic Orthodox Church and other denominations of Christian, or too complex because it already seems to assume a solid familiarity with its theology. Thankfully your interviews and discussions do NOT assume that, but DO address questions of theology and history in some detail. This is going to be great. (Also if anyone has any English-language book recommendations on the Coptic Church I'd love to hear them).
Do you have Facebook, because I could DM you a couple if you like. I'm in a phase of enquiring myself, and one book that I've heard being mentioned time and time again is "The Council of Chalcedon Reexamined by Fr. V.C. Samuel". Anyway, all the best with your reading. God bless.
i'm Eritrean Orthodox(part of the Oriental Orthodox churchs).you are right there are almost no books about the Coptic or Oriental Orthodox Churches.this is a thing that i have been thinking not a day ago.but if you search books in google for example "Coptic Orthodox Books pdf" you might find a couple of books.a book that i found was Called "Introduction to The Coptic Orthodox Church" which can be downloaded with pdf.if you search under the name i gave you which i mean Coptic Orthodox books,you might find pope shenouda's books and Father Tedros Y.Malaty Interpretions on the whole bible with the church fathers and other books too.i hope this can help you.
Thank you Austin and thank you Abouna Anthony. Perfectly explained how the Oriental Orthodox are the best example in contemporary times of the persecuted Church we read about in the Bible existing today, and noting that it is a continued persecution which rises against only the belief and praxis of ancient Christianity… not a church having power over a culture, ultimately installing a cultural veneer of Orthodox Christianity in the culture, while Church corruption runs rampant, and then when the majority of citizens wounded by the Church rise up against their oppressor, the Church crowns itself saints. Perfect job explaining how Chalcedonian Christology is semantically and theoretically acceptable and orthodox, but the implementation of it was not orthodox or even Christian… it’s defense nowadays online is also not orthodox and barely Christian. When I became a Christian at the age of 21, I attended a Baptist church because I’m American. Over 11 years and many churches later they all said the same thing “we need to get back to the Church in the Bible.” The Roman Catholic Church, The Eastern Orthodox Church, The Orthodox Church, and the Assyrian Church of the East claim to be the Church in the Bible. Objective observation and practice easily reveals the Orthodox Church (commonly referred to as the Oriental Orthodox Church as the church which continues the life of the first generation of Christians. If you want to live the Bible and enter the New Covenant, join the Orthodox Church (Oriental Orthodox Church).
Dear brother or sister, it grieves my heart terribly that people are still using the "Eastern vs Oriental" aliases. We can say Coptic vs Greek Orthodox (as politically bounded nationalities rather than denominations) because after all, both churches disagreed politically, not theologically, and only wanted POWER over the church of Alexandria as Arabic sources revealed. And yes, I'm saying this as an originally Coptic Christian who's more "in tune" with Greek Orthodox/western churches. I have no problem alternating between the Greek and the Coptic. I attend both liturgies but I'm Greek-leaning. As someone who spent 16 years at the Coptic Orthodox church and 6 years at the Greek Orthodox church, I testify that there's absolutely no difference between the churches--thus no need to say Oriental and Eastern. Both churches agree on even the TINIEST things, like the concept of even a matanya (an Orthodox way of kneeling before God). (And yes, what you said about the Coptic church being a church that doesn't seek to manipulate governments and create a theocracy and thrive on political dominance, that's probably the only church that didn't force itself on the culture. No crusades. No politicians. No Pope-Governor figure. Even self-defense isn't there. God is the one who defends this church and proof lies in the mokattam mountain incident briefly recounted on Wikipedia. This, the Coptic church, is the church of St. Anthony the Great, st. Macarius the Great, St. Onuphrius the anchorite, Pachomios, John the dwarf, all the desert fathers and martyrs; This is the church of absolute self-denial.) From experience, people who are intentionally causing division, by saying that there's even the slightest hint of difference between those Churches, are being coerced by the demons and may not enter the kingdom of heaven according to Galatians 5:20-21, which says: "Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, *dissensions, factions,* envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I am warning you about these things-as I warned you before-that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Notice that factions and dissensions both mean divisions. St. Paul displayed the fatality of intentionally causing illegitimate divisions by reiterating the word.) My dear friend, I'll leave you with a translated movie humbly made by the Coptic Orthodox church (they have movies of almost all the saints so that's like thousands of Coptic-Church-directed movies) about St. Onuphrius the anchorite from the beginning of the 4th century or Nofer as the Coptic church calls him. The link is on RUclips: ruclips.net/video/EYd-tCYYWyE/видео.html (You don't purchase those movies because it isn't the Church's intention to profit from any movie it makes) If you want more movies (which I can find for you as God blessed me with both English and Arabic) and more 'live cultural innuendos' about the Coptic Orthodox church from the inside, we can DM each other and ultimately become close friends!
Brother, we are not all perfect and neither are they. Not all EO can be painted with the same brush. Our hierarchs have recognized the EO expression of faith as Orthodox and we are duty bound to do so as well. Any of us mischaracterizing them is as bad as any of them mischaracterizing us.
The channel called Ready To Harvest (which does very informative videos about various denominations) has an awesome video comparing Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy, I highly recommend it. Just search it here on RUclips.
I love watching your interview and when the interview is with oriental orthodox scholars I am all ears. We ( Ethiopian orthodox ) recently experienced execution and the situation become worse over time. I pray God may give us strength to stand strong till this day passed. I understand from the interview the Coptic church get used to the execution but it is new experience for us as list in recent history
This was really interesting. If you are based in Chicago, you should meet the *Assyrian Church*, which is neither Orthodox nor Catholic. The Patriarchal See used to be based in Chicago for a while because, like the Coptic Church, they were persecuted due to religious beliefs in Iraq. It touches the issue of Nestorianism, they follow the East Syriac rite, and the Pope has good relations with them.
I love the (Coptic?) Orthodox creed (Roman Catholic here). I doubt that the amount of Faith Fr. shows is possible without persecution (as Copts definitely have experienced)..
@@GospelSimplicity I know that I will! If you are further intrigued by this interview, I highly suggest talking to Reader/Chanter Daniel, Polish Miaphysite on RUclips. This channel and its viewers are about to have contact with the most persecuted church in all of Church history (which continues up to today). When it comes to the meat and potatoes of what the Bride of Christ is, as she prepares herself for The Wedding Day, objectively speaking the Oriental Orthodox Communion stands above all other communions in praxis. It’s was discerning this fruit which ultimately swayed me in the debates which rage amongst dyophysites and miaphysites. Christ told us that the surest way to identify which teachers to accept, that it was the fruit they bore. Any honest discussion between a Chalcedonian and non-Chalcedonian will end with the non-Chalcedonian accepting that the Tome of Leo is theoretically and semantically orthodox in light of the Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox 5th Ecumenical Council (while still rejecting what Chalcedon ultimately is), and the Chalcedonian accepting that whether or not they believe that further development into the Christology of the hypostatic union was necessary… that the Oriental Orthodox believe that which all of Christianity believed, unchanged, before Chalcedon. If something is orthodox, it can never cease to be orthodox, so to call us heretics is to call all Christians before Chalcedon heretics. The only time either side will sling accusations of heresy at each other is when they refuse to let the other side state and explain what they believe in their own words, the accusations are born only of those who have decided that they know better what another believes than that other person themselves. God bless you and Abouna Anthony in your discourse. ✝️
From an EO: Once we co-signed on the dotted line in 1990 that we had the same faith, that was it. We should have been the same church. The very definition of Orthodox unity is unity "in faith". We have the same faith, full stop. Everything else preventing us from uniting is historical hand-wringing, phyletism, and pride. If both church families had a modicum of pride, we would simply affirm a statement that says that two two sister churches will always have enduringly different ideas on what happened in the freaking 500's, but that we proceed as a united front, and bend in love to remove unhelpful anathemas stemming from a now-healed wound. My brother Fr. Anthony calls them "more traditional thinking", and he's being pastorally sensitive in this choice of words. In fact, they're prideful, schism-loving turds who need to repent for their roles in keeping the one true faith apart. I think the most likely course for reconciliation is for one of the non-state-financed EO patriarchates, such as Antioch, Alexandria or Jerusalem, to simply declare themselves in communion with the OO churches and get on with the hard business of bringing our problem children to see the err of their ways.
@ Ray Fulmer - the Antiochene and Alexandrian EO and OO churches have communion agreements with each other but not with the rest of the other side. The Romanian and Indian synods signed off on reunion and I believe they may allow communion from any EO or OO or at the very least, in exceptional cases. It seems like we’re already in a sort of imperfect communion without acknowledging it.
@@jacobbaradaeus6250 Yes. And actually, even within the Antiochian and OCA there are many OO allowed to commune for pastoral reasons. i.e. they cannot possibly get to an OO church, so they come to the EO. The whole thing makes me ill. At this point in time, we need to be mending fences and uniting for strength in faith wherever possible. There's likely more practical theological difference from one parish to another than there is between the formal doctrines of the two Orthodox communions. We often go to seminary together, attend each other's scholar conferences.... it's just this old world pride that we can't scratch a few names off of the anathema list and just say "maybe it was true then, but we'll never know, and it doesn't matter now".
Why didn't Fr. Mourad mention the Malankara Orthodox Church? That is an autocephalous church within the OO communion that is communion with the Coptic Orthodox Church.
Hello I suggest you also do an interview with father Tadros yaacoub Malaty of Sporting Church in alexandria he is an elder and an expert in the early fathers life and coptic orthodox theology
I am a cradle Antiochian Orthodox. When I went to a Coptic Church I found it very different. Women were on one side- all heads covered, men on the other. Arabic, Coptic, Greek and some English spoken during the liturgy. No choir and procession had cymbals. To me it seemed very different.
G'day Austin, thanks heaps for shining a light on the Coptic Orthodox Tradition! If you're looking for more ideas for future videos may I suggest one on Miaphysite Christology? I don't think this topic is covered nearly enough in the realm of apologetics, which results in many people incorrectly labelling our brothers and sisters in the Oriental Orthodox Church as 'monophysite'. While there are probably a number of people out there who could provide great insight on this topic, I've heard of this site called "Polish Miaphysite" run by Daniel Michalski, who has written extensively on the Christology shared by the Coptic, Armenian, Eritrean, Ethiopian, Indian, and Syriac traditions. Anyway, love your videos and God bless you :)
Austin - found your channel about 6 months ago and am now a subscriber - very rare for me. A suggestion: I think would be a fantastic thing to see an ongoing compilation of your “final four” being answered by your various distinguished guests. The answers can be deeply touching, and seeing them compiled across the many denominations would be an effective way to demonstrate that there is in fact much unity among us Christians. Full disclosure - I’m a Catholic who was raised Lutheran until about age 5. Also, if you’re interested, there is a Catholic lay movement that focuses on bringing unity to the world, including but not limited to unity among Christians. It’s name is The Focolare Movement. I recommend that you look into it and perhaps invite them to your show.
Thanks for subscribing! That's something I'm working on! At least at the end of the year, if not sooner, I'll put together some compilation videos from those questions
I am Armenian. I admire our Christian history. I was baptized as a baby in an Armenian Orthodox Church but had a very little knowledge of the Gospel and the teachings of the Bible. Since I am an Armenian, I can say that majority of Armenian don’t know anything about Christianity. They don’t know the gospel neither do they know Jesus. It’s because the religious leaders have done very bad job discipling the people. I think it’s the same thing with a lot of Orthodox churches. There are a lot of truths in orthodox teachings but without the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, no one could have been saved just by His incarnation and His teachings. Thank you.
This guy looks and acts just like my physical therapist who is Coptic orthodox. He was always so amazed I knew about Coptics and I knew the name of the Coptic pope (they have a pope just like Catholics). The guy was from Cairo. He was a sworn defender of the Coptic orthodox. He was tattooed to proof it. You know, the Muslim brotherhood often beat up and sometimes killed coptics. Their ancient cathedral was bombed and heavily damaged. Pope Francis sent the Coptics something like $23 million for repairs. I didn’t ask my Coptic therapist wether he was sworn to point of death to defend Coptics from Muslims. But I told him I was sure glad he was here in Newport Beach CA instead of Cairo. To save his life. He was beaming in glowing pride that his dedication to Coptic Christianity and his Coptic pope was recognized far off here in California.
Thanks for this interview. Lovely man with an important point about persecution and the gifts of the Coptic Church. Forgive me if I need to make one observation though. When asked to summarize the Gospel, he instead summarized the Law. I hope upon reflection he knows the difference.
@MJ - with all due respect, it may be that Fr. Anthony knows what you refer to, but his and in general, the Orthodox/Eastern understanding of what the Gospel means, may be different from your own. The Good news is the entirety of the incarnation and not just the crucifixion and resurrection. Christ saves us by becoming one of us and teaching us how to be like Him (living and dying for us) so that we may be united with Him forever.
@@GospelSimplicity It seems that AssyrianFaith on RUclips would be a good candidate! They're a very tiny group now (a lot of them actually joined with Rome to become the Chaldean Church, and some actually joined with the (Eastern) Orthodox in the late 19th century, but due to Muslim massacres, this group was essentially wiped out), but at one point they were the largest body in all of Christendom, stretching into India and even China at some points. They are sort of the polar opposite of the Coptics as they would be called Nestorians, which isn't too unfair seeing as they venerate Nestorius as a saint and serve a liturgy in his name, although they argue the traditional representation of Nestorius' theology is inaccurate.
Austin, where did you hear that _most_ EO churches have pews? Couldn’t be further from the truth (unless you hyper-focus on Greek American parishes). Great interview, by the way! Always fascinating to hear from Coptic Christians themselves.
Of the 4 Eastern Orthodox church buildings I have been inside of in NY state (OCA, Antiochian, Greek, and Macedonian) all have pews. Two of them were specifically built as Orthodox churches. In North Macedonia, where I have also visited 4 churches, none had pews and I have never been in one anywhere else.
I think older Orthodox congregations in the eastern US are more likely to have pews. Often congregations made up of converts (especially Antiochian and OCA in the west) are less likely to have pews. In my experience it's mainly the Greeks that have pews, but I've attended primarily convert EO churches.
@@KayElayempea Of all the Orthodox churches in this world, how many do you think have pews (a Western innovation which did not exist in Orthodox parishes until significant later interaction predominantly with Protestants-whether by purchase of originally Protestant church buildings in the New World or via cultural influence)? Looking at the bigger picture, I’d guess 10-20% _max._ You’ll find higher rates in places like Greece or the United States, but overall it’s impossible to say that _most_ Orthodox churches in general have pews.
@@nuzzi6620 I don't you are correct. I was just really considering churches in the USA, although I did say that in my limited experience outside the US the situation is different.
@@ricardooliveira9774 There's Oriental Orthodox and "Eastern" Orthodox. We aren't sects as 'Orthodox' means the opposite of sect as sects are groups that believe in heterodox things. Coptics are Oriental Orthodox. They are the closest to the Orthodox Catholic Church (what Westerners call Eastern Orthodox) as we believe almost the exact same things and our main Traditions are almost the same. There's very little separating the two. It's just that they don't accept any Ecumenical Council after the 3rd. If we could bridge that gap it wouldn't take too long to be in communion (which means in Eucharistic Communion, partaking of the Holy Eucharist together). Syrians are part of the Oriental Orthodox Church. They too might be as close as the Coptics however I haven't really looked into them.
Dear Austen, as a Coptic (Greek-leaning) Orthodox Christian raised in Egypt, I highly recommend you view the mokattam mountain incident briefly and accurately recounted on Wikipedia (The Muslim caliph, who wanted to brutally and officially murder every single Coptic Christian if they don't move a mountain, is there. Yes. You've correctly read that. :'D ) You can even watch the movie, humbly directed by the Coptic Orthodox church, here on RUclips which you don't purchase since the Coptic church believes love is not self-seeking. (Note: the same Coptic Christians who were involved in this incident are the ones who live in Egypt today. How? Since it is illegal according to Islamic law, Sahih-Al-bukhari, to change your religion from Muslim to Christian or you'd be executed: meaning that the Coptic Christians of today are NOT hybrid or converts.) However, I first recommend you watch this movie also from the Coptic church which literally enables you to TASTE rather than hear about Coptic spirituality. (note: the church directed almost every early church saint movie! Thousands of translated movies from St. Anthony the great and the Mokattam movie to St. Mary of Egypt etc.. Such movies truly bring you into the very scene and ambience of the early church) There it is on RUclips: ruclips.net/video/EYd-tCYYWyE/видео.html I left this one a mystery so you can go investigate who this is about. P.S. you guys have the exact same icon of Jesus in the background XD!
I thought canon 6 of Nicea differentiates primacy of Alexandria and Antioch. Antioch is considered the Syriac Orthodox Church which is an Oriental Orthodox Church.
Church councils dry and pull of saints discussing theology ? Ask Aries about Nicholas. Ho Ho Ho! (Yeah I know some say that’s apocryphal…. But it does give you a better idea of some of the stuff at councils. The Holy Spirit is, of course, amazing)
My understanding of the Christological difference between the Oriental Orthodox (OO) and Eastern Orthodox (EO) is this: OO believe that the incarnate Christ is 1 divine-human particular nature, and the divine and human properties are distinct from one another. EO believe that the incarnate Christ is 1 divine particular nature, and the divine and human general natures are distinct from one another. This difference is caused by two different philosophical presuppositions: OO presuppose a conceptual distinction between a particular nature and a general nature, due to the fact that a general nature is a conceptual grouping/compendium of particular natures. EO presuppose a real distinction between particular natures and general natures, while general natures only exist in particular natures EO nonetheless view them as being distinct in reality. Please let me know if I'm missing something.
@a Are you cradle Orthodox or also a convert? If a convert, when? Are there also deceitful EO, you think? I plan to check out your recommendation shortly.
@a Please do not take offence... I've listened to quite a few of his arguments in the past and find characters such as him to be very dangerous and divisive; and here is why: 1. Never in any of his talks has he or any of his comrades ever proven that Oriental Orthodox Christians have deviated from what they had always believed; and 2. He fails to emphasise that the Alexandrian Pope had previously condemned the Monophysite heresy. To me those are of extreme importance; and it is mere slander until both points are honestly addressed. Now, I'm no theologian nor an historian, but if a Pope preemptively promulgates a Tome for all to accept, and then is absent from the Council, then why should that Council be embraced without question? To your knowledge, is it true that Pope Leo did not attend?
@a I have seen quite a few of his videos over the span of two or more years, some of which are in that playlist. The debate he had with the Oriental Orthodox failed to prove that they were ever Monophysite; and after failing to do so, I no longer take him seriously on that topic. Must I listen to 20-hours of a one-sided argument to be convinced? when he failed to do so in a debate? This guy reminds me of an arrogant builder who once insisted that my last name was "Payton" in spite of me repeatedly telling him it is not. So Copts are not Monophysite because we insist that they are. Don't let these folks draw you away with pseudo-intellectual talks, as they are accountable to no one, and only poison the minds of those not willing to hear both sides of the argument. I often wonder if their confession fathers sanction these talks. Do their parish priests and bishops agree with their opinions? And, what are their credentials?
@a So if now they're not Monophysite, then what exactly makes them "heterodox"? I actually just less than 10-mins ago had to switch from another of his videos, since he added nothing new. And I just heard him claim that the 5th Council cleaned up the language of the 4th -- strange admission to make if that is true... But who exactly is he for me to take seriously as my teacher? Who is his bishop? Do you know? Now I can't help but to speculate the following: If Cyril of Alexandria is a Saint, then so is Dioscorus; and if Pope Leo is a Saint, then so is Nestorius.
Flavian wrote a letter to Leo several months after Ephesus II. He complains about the council, but doesn't mention anything about being beaten. Also, the Eastern Orthodox commemoration of Flavian is not anywhere near the council of Ephesus II. The narrative of his beating and death at Ephesus II is false.
No, not since they invented a parallel episcopacy after denying the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon around 397-460AD. Syriacs, Ethiopean/Eritrean, Armenians, and Malabar "orthodox" are oriental "orthodox" or nonchalcedonians meaning they only hold to the first 3 of the 7 ecumenical councils. (1st Nicea, 1st Constantinople, Ephesus) They hold a different Christological view from the (Eastern) Orthodox Catholic Church commonly called monophysitism (denying Christ is fully God and fully man) but which they call miaphysitism. Unlike the Eastern Orthodox churches the Oriental churches can vary widely in their core traditions especially the Ethiopeans who hold 1 Enoch as scripture. They were cut off from the rest of Christendom for centuries after the rise of Islam. Fr. Meyendorff's "Imperial Unity & Christian Divisions" is a very good book on the history of this schism. It had a lot to do with politics in the Eastern Roman Empire and Alexandrians having a chip on their shoulder due to the city being knocked down the 3rd place after Constantinople and Rome when St. Constantine moved the capital. It's probably the most complex schism to try and understand as it involves very complex theology. We pray at some point it will be healed, especially as communication between the orientals and eastern orthodox has resumed in recent decades as the yoke of Islam has been partially ameliorated.
@ Navel-Gazing Neo-Palamite - Brother, pardon me if I’m wrong. Your words seem to indicate that Misphysitism means ‘denying Christ is fully God and fully man’. I don’t recall Pope St. Cyril ever using the word ‘Mono’physite in his formula. The ‘commonly used word’, that is, ‘Monophysite’ that you refer to is indeed an easy slur for many who use it. Its ‘common use’ either lies or is ignorant about what we believe, by claiming we believe in only ‘One Nature’ as opposed to ‘Two Natures’, by skipping over the crucial word ‘incarnate’ in between ‘One’ and ‘Nature’. Any description of us believing in ‘One Nature’ instead of saying we believe in ‘One Incarnate Nature’ is either flat out wrong or a willful lie or May God forgive, both. Shlomo
@ Navel-gazing Palamite - Also - The non-Chalcedonians existed both within the empire and beyond it as well. The Armenians and Ethiopians never had to create a parallel episcopacy. Within the empire, both groups existed as warring factions within the same Church, for a hundred years after Chalcedon. Without the Emperor Justinian forcing the issue by jailing non-Chalcedonian bishops within the empire and taking over episcopal sees where the laity were overwhelmingly non-Chalcedonian - to win the Latins to his side and recapture the West - there would have been no need for parallel hierarchies. If anything, the creator of the parallel Episcopal hierarchy was the Empress Theodora, who is not only a saint of ours but an EO saint as well. More to the point, Justinian, also an EO saint tacitly allowed this instead of preventing his wife (wanting the cake and eating it too?). The instigator and facilitator of the parallel hierarchies for non-Chalcedonian majority areas within the Empire were both EO saints who also ruled the Empire together.
Like the old Scottish Covenanters believed down with the prelates - Anglican bishops and the divine right of the kings! They wrote the covenant in their own blood!
I thank God for leading me to the Coptic Orthodox Church. But we are all going to be one church in the end so I have nothing but love for Christians everywhere who love God and express that love in their life. Theology is fun to discuss but we can never forget that God is seeking after our hearts, not our brains.
I loved Father Anthony! And I love the Coptic Christians. My only disagreement was when he summarized the Gospel as loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, strength and loving your neighbor as yourself. When we are commanded to love it is an expression of Law and not Gospel. The Gospel is what God has done for us in Christ apart from the Law. But I love him nonetheless!
@Logica Redux - we believe it is the Word of God (the ‘un-incarnate’ Christ) who gave Moses the Law on Mt. Sinai and the same Word of God, clothed in our flesh as the incarnate Christ, who clarified to the Pharisee what the law He gave Moses meant.
There are plenty of people who do that well. I've deliberately chosen to try to be a neutral interviewer. However, I'm always happy to point people towards those who are great evangelical voices
I am Greek Orthodox, but I have nothing but love and respect for our Coptic Orthodox brothers and sisters. Every time I have attended a service in a Coptic church, I have felt right at home, it is such a beautiful expression of Orthodoxy. Thank you for doing this interview!
That's great to hear!
We love you too, brother. As the Lord prayed, may we be one. Shlomo.
I pray that Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Orthodox are united again. We are so close to the same, much more so than a Calvinist, Baptist or most other Protestant churches.
Coptic Church and other oriental churches (Ethiopian, Armenian, Indian etc.) are the same Orthodox churches. The main reason of the schism was politics, not theology. So I really hope we will reunite soon again. 🙏
@@maybesometime3713That's only a line repeated by those who have never actually read the acts of Chalcedon, The council itself is a radical and professing it is either a heresy or a sin depending on the beliefs of the one professing it. As such unity can only become a reality when both parties proclaim the 12 anathemas of Saint Cyril and by doing so also condemn the Council of Chalcedon
I am an Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido believer. As our Copt brother we count our selfs as one Alexandrian church from St. Mark. We love you our Egyptian christian brothers.
I love Fr Anthony! Coptic Orthodox Answers is a treasure of a RUclips channel.
Eastern Orthodox here and much love to my Coptic brothers and sisters. I pray that we will be in communion again 🙏🏻
Spiritually, both churches are.
Politically, they aren't.
But who cares about politics anyway?
@@justinaacuriouswanderer1496 I agree politics aren’t fun. However it’s above my position, I would like us to be completely reunited formally in Christs church and be one 😊. I pray the leaders of both our churches can resolve this long dispute
@@bbehzadi413
So I was born in Egypt as part of the Coptic church, but I kind of identify more with the Greek/American Orthodox church and it just grieves my heart we even have to discuss our ever-present unity that I have witnessed, having spent 16 yrs in the Coptic church and 6 in the Greek.
Even in things as small as a matanya, both churches are truly the same, and I don't get it how they still haven't signed up.
You'd be truly concerned when you read Galatians 5:20-21 CSB
@@justinaacuriouswanderer1496 Coptics make the sign of the Cross backwards like RCs.
@Justina - the Copts are the most ‘Greek’ of the OO. Our Church isn’t monolithic and has more diversity in tradition. I pray that you be able to receive communion from any OO church one day. God Bless.
I am not Egyptian but I love the Copic Orthodox Church.
I am getting an icon of the 21 Holy Martyrs of Libya soon. Their story touched my heart deeply. God bless all of the Copts and Ethiopians. May we achieve true unity under a single Orthodox theological understanding.
From an Eastern Orthodox brother ☦️🕊️
AMEN
I was just speaking of these heroic martyrs today....truly inspiring. May we love God to the very end as they did.
Sigh. Our positive response to their martyrdom, is likely why The Archbishop of Aleppo was “Disappeared” rather than outright martyred. We have NO SURE idea as to what happened to him, and can’t 100% rule out that he’s still alive somewhere, enduring years of torment for Christ.
I keep an icon of them in my prayer corner. Because of their martyrdom I was made aware of Orthodoxy and was later received into the (Eastern) Orthodox church. I pray we one day reunite with our Coptic brothers.
@Misha - You will forever be a Sister in Christ. God be with you.
The Coptics go through so much persecution and have many martyrs .I highly respect them and pray for them daily .
The Coptic style of icons is ADORABLE 🥰
As a Catholic, God bless the Coptic church. We are supporting you guys in Africa, may God completely unite us in Jesus name.
Pope Thoardros visited Pope Francis last month at 50 years commutation of a Coptic visit to Vatican
Thank you for making this video, Austin. I’m Coptic Orthodox and I feel so blessed to be a part of my community. Fr Anthony beautifully and simply explained church history that led us to where we are today. God bless you Fr. Anthony! I’m praying for the Orthodox Church to be one again, hopefully in our lifetime.
Let us pray for the Union between Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy , I'm Coptic Orthodox from Mexico
Blessings to all🙏
What a beautiful interview! Lord have mercy and bring unity in Your church! As and orthodox Christian, with fear, I believe it is a blessing to suffer persecution in the name of Christ! We are not of this world and our success should not be measured according to this world!
Glory to Hod for all things 🙏
❤ i am a Malankara Syrian Orthodox . Thank you for posting this.
I love the Copts hopefully we can come together in our lifetime! ☦️🙏🏾
Monophysites.
@@EricAlHarb copts are as much Monophysites as much as eastern are Nestorians , get real.
@@justdi883He meant that both aren't heretical.
I would love to thank you for your channel and work. Honestly, I feel it is overdue: because I've been watching for a couple of years, and what you do is the most honest and sincere. Going to churches and hosting professional speakers & clergy to explain their faith, theology, & history. From Protestants to Orthodox to Roman Catholics, I thank you for your integrity. Coming from a Coptic Orthodox background, I was wondering to reach out and suggest this, but there you go. Thank you again.
Wow, thank you so much for the kind and encouraging words. It's my absolute pleasure to get to do this.
@@GospelSimplicity Absolutely, brother, keep it up. God bless.
RUclips needs more content like yours. Thankyou for your humble and sincere questions!! I never knew the differences between The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches. Here from Oriental Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. 😊
Thank you Austin and Fr. Anthony for this truly fruitful conversation. God bless!
Brotherly greeting from Armenia. Thanks for the interview.
Aw they both have icons of the Good Shepherd behind them!
Checked if someone had commented on that.😄
Loved it. Have the same.
@@Graaskaegg haha! nice!
Praise God for your channel. This is building so much bridges between all Churches. This is the will of the Holy Spirit. You are bearing fruits. Amen
this is great you’re finally interviewing the Coptic Church, i’m a catechumen in this church and i’ve been waiting on this video
Why the Coptic church?
@@LadyMaria long story fr but i really admire the faith that Coptic Orthodoxy has, how they handled the martyrdom of the 21 martyrs in Libya really inspired me when i learned about it in 2020. i thought to myself “i want the faith that they have” and just went from there i guess
@@blade7506 Have you looked into [Eastern] Orthodoxy?
@@LadyMaria yeah i have
@@LadyMaria Byzantine church is a joke
I am glad to see my church on your channel Austin , Thank you so much
As an Eastern O, orientals are absolutely my brothers and sisters in Christ!
Yeah, they’re monophysites.
They aren’t monophysites, but they aren’t Chalcedonian either, which is a problem
@@EricAlHarb The Coptic Orthodox church is miaphysite.
@@EricAlHarb can you please define Monophysite?
@@angelamegale the Miaphysite expression goes back to ST. Cyril of Alexandria when he was confronting Nestoreanisim it refers to the oneness of Christ personhood, and the church before the division agreed to it, that is why ST Mary is called theotokos. it’s not just an oriental thing. The main problem now is the use of Arabic language to refer to hypostasis as nature because Arabic doesn’t have an equivalent word. that is what I have noticed as an Arabic speaker.
Fantastic interview with Fr. Anthony. I loved especially his reflections on what the Coptic Church can offer to the Christian community. I learned so much from this. Thank you.
My pleasure!
Most of the time Its not our theology which separates us, but our arrogance.
Amen. Yes.
Im in the Eatern Orthodox church but I've just ordered Chalcedon re-examined by V.C Samuels, can't wait for it to arrive.
Thank you so much for doing this interview. It’s such a blessing to hear from Fr Anthony Mourad. I have grown to love Orthodoxy more because of Fr Mourad’s COA channel. God Bless
My pleasure!
I’m EO and joyfully share the faith of Abuna. At our parish and on my wall near my home altar is the icon of these new martyrs of Egypt with their newly-baptized-in-blood Muslim co-worker, whose prayers I request daily for all suffering Christians. God forgive our division and heal it at the prayers of His mist pure Mother, the Apostles, and those Alexandrian lights, Athanasius & Cyril.
Glory to God for you, your Spiritual Father/Pastor, and for your parish, Brother.
Yooo I watch these guys all the time! Great work
EO and love our Oriental Brethren, as did our dear Bishop Dimitry of Dallas, who helped establish Oriental Parishes in DFW, despite the messyness of it all.
God Bless you, brother and God keep alive the memory of HG Bishop Dmitri. Shlomo.
Much love Fr Anthony! Crossed through much of his and Fr Peter work early on before converting.
Thanks was waiting for this long overdue one about the coptic. The OO is the most ancient original version of all orthodox christianity.
My pleasure!
Eastern Orthodox layman here. I like the Oriental Orthodox very much, one of my good friends is a Copt and he's one of the most pious and kind people I know. Oriental Orthodox are our siblings in Christ, despite some differences in views.
It is interesting how both of you have the same icon of our Lord ❤️✝️
I also come from a non denominational big church. We can sit in comfy sofa or chairs and drinking our morning coffee during the church service. After I get much closer to God by practicing Christian spirituality tradition, like contemplative prayer (the Jesus prayer), I feel that in modern church Sunday service, the reverence for God is lacking. The setting, the music and sermon are more tailored made for satisfying human’s needs instead.
Maybe you should read about the Early Church and see how really, much of modern day Christianity has to do with us and nothing to do with worshiping God. I came from a Methodist background until I started to look at historical Christianity.
@@francanarsie exactly. I have read about church history and practise traditional Christian spirituality, that’s why I shared the above.
Love my Coptic friends. I worked with Egyptians, most of them are very serious about their faith
I was just wondering if you were ever going to talk about the Coptic Church. Thank you
My pleasure!
I recognize him from Coptic Orthodox Answers. Anthony Mourad I believe. The other presenter is Gregory Lissa! May God continue to bless all of you.
There is a playlist he has on Coptic church.
We have a good amount of Ethiopian folks in our EO parish who originally attended an OO church. They were accepted into communion by confession of faith.
Greetings to my Coptic brothers, The /church of Martyrs
Thank you Austin and Father Anthony for this interview. Such good stuff! I have been attending Coptic Orthodox Churches for the last 2 months or so and can say they have been such a light in my life. May be joining officially soon, but in the right time I’ll see. Thank you again for the interview.
Glad you enjoyed the interview!
@Gospel Simplicity - your channel is amazing and it’s wonderful to finally see the OO represented. Please don’t stop with our Coptic brothers 🙏
It would be great to see you interview our fathers in Christ from the other broad traditions within the OO - the Syrian and Armenian traditions and maybe even the distinct traditions within those traditions! For instance, the Syriac Orthodox and Indian Orthodox are both Syrian. The Ethiopian/Eritrean tradition is basically Coptic but still distinct from the Coptic Church. The Eastern and Western Armenians are both Armenian.
If I may say so, among the RC, the EO and OO, we OO are the fewest in number but Glory to God, the most diverse in terms of our rites, traditions, and ecclesiastical hierarchies, while still being one in faith.
Any guests in particular you'd like to see from these traditions?
Incredible. Thank you brothers in Christ.
Wow! Joyful tears! What a beautiful interview 🙏🙏🙏
God bless you both.
Looking forward to this. Thanks and Blessings again
I've been looking forward to this for a very long time. The Coptic Orthodox church has been a bit of a blank spot when it comes to my knowledge of various Christian denominations, but that I've really been wanting to know more about (and the same thing goes for the Armenian Apostolic church, and the various other churches they're in communion with). But I've often found it challenging to learn more about it because the information I've found in English is often either too superficial, offering only the most brief and basic comparisons between the Coptic Orthodox Church and other denominations of Christian, or too complex because it already seems to assume a solid familiarity with its theology. Thankfully your interviews and discussions do NOT assume that, but DO address questions of theology and history in some detail. This is going to be great. (Also if anyone has any English-language book recommendations on the Coptic Church I'd love to hear them).
I'm so glad that my interviews are filling in that gap for you!
Do you have Facebook, because I could DM you a couple if you like. I'm in a phase of enquiring myself, and one book that I've heard being mentioned time and time again is "The Council of Chalcedon Reexamined by Fr. V.C. Samuel". Anyway, all the best with your reading. God bless.
i'm Eritrean Orthodox(part of the Oriental Orthodox churchs).you are right there are almost no books about the Coptic or Oriental Orthodox Churches.this is a thing that i have been thinking not a day ago.but if you search books in google for example "Coptic Orthodox Books pdf" you might find a couple of books.a book that i found was Called "Introduction to The Coptic Orthodox Church" which can be downloaded with pdf.if you search under the name i gave you which i mean Coptic Orthodox books,you might find pope shenouda's books and Father Tedros Y.Malaty Interpretions on the whole bible with the church fathers and other books too.i hope this can help you.
Awesome work. Glory to the Trinity.
Yes!! So excited for this
Hope you enjoy it!
This was beautiful to watch, thank you so much. ❤
Would be amazing if you did a part two with additional questions and answers.
God bless your service
Thank you Austin and thank you Abouna Anthony. Perfectly explained how the Oriental Orthodox are the best example in contemporary times of the persecuted Church we read about in the Bible existing today, and noting that it is a continued persecution which rises against only the belief and praxis of ancient Christianity… not a church having power over a culture, ultimately installing a cultural veneer of Orthodox Christianity in the culture, while Church corruption runs rampant, and then when the majority of citizens wounded by the Church rise up against their oppressor, the Church crowns itself saints.
Perfect job explaining how Chalcedonian Christology is semantically and theoretically acceptable and orthodox, but the implementation of it was not orthodox or even Christian… it’s defense nowadays online is also not orthodox and barely Christian.
When I became a Christian at the age of 21, I attended a Baptist church because I’m American. Over 11 years and many churches later they all said the same thing “we need to get back to the Church in the Bible.” The Roman Catholic Church, The Eastern Orthodox Church, The Orthodox Church, and the Assyrian Church of the East claim to be the Church in the Bible. Objective observation and practice easily reveals the Orthodox Church (commonly referred to as the Oriental Orthodox Church as the church which continues the life of the first generation of Christians.
If you want to live the Bible and enter the New Covenant, join the Orthodox Church (Oriental Orthodox Church).
Dear brother or sister, it grieves my heart terribly that people are still using the "Eastern vs Oriental" aliases.
We can say Coptic vs Greek Orthodox (as politically bounded nationalities rather than denominations) because after all, both churches disagreed politically, not theologically, and only wanted POWER over the church of Alexandria as Arabic sources revealed.
And yes, I'm saying this as an originally Coptic Christian who's more "in tune" with Greek Orthodox/western churches. I have no problem alternating between the Greek and the Coptic. I attend both liturgies but I'm Greek-leaning. As someone who spent 16 years at the Coptic Orthodox church and 6 years at the Greek Orthodox church, I testify that there's absolutely no difference between the churches--thus no need to say Oriental and Eastern. Both churches agree on even the TINIEST things, like the concept of even a matanya (an Orthodox way of kneeling before God). (And yes, what you said about the Coptic church being a church that doesn't seek to manipulate governments and create a theocracy and thrive on political dominance, that's probably the only church that didn't force itself on the culture. No crusades. No politicians. No Pope-Governor figure. Even self-defense isn't there. God is the one who defends this church and proof lies in the mokattam mountain incident briefly recounted on Wikipedia. This, the Coptic church, is the church of St. Anthony the Great, st. Macarius the Great, St. Onuphrius the anchorite, Pachomios, John the dwarf, all the desert fathers and martyrs; This is the church of absolute self-denial.)
From experience, people who are intentionally causing division, by saying that there's even the slightest hint of difference between those Churches, are being coerced by the demons and may not enter the kingdom of heaven according to Galatians 5:20-21, which says:
"Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, *dissensions, factions,* envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I am warning you about these things-as I warned you before-that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
(Notice that factions and dissensions both mean divisions. St. Paul displayed the fatality of intentionally causing illegitimate divisions by reiterating the word.)
My dear friend, I'll leave you with a translated movie humbly made by the Coptic Orthodox church (they have movies of almost all the saints so that's like thousands of Coptic-Church-directed movies) about St. Onuphrius the anchorite from the beginning of the 4th century or Nofer as the Coptic church calls him. The link is on RUclips: ruclips.net/video/EYd-tCYYWyE/видео.html
(You don't purchase those movies because it isn't the Church's intention to profit from any movie it makes)
If you want more movies (which I can find for you as God blessed me with both English and Arabic) and more 'live cultural innuendos' about the Coptic Orthodox church from the inside, we can DM each other and ultimately become close friends!
Brother, we are not all perfect and neither are they. Not all EO can be painted with the same brush. Our hierarchs have recognized the EO expression of faith as Orthodox and we are duty bound to do so as well. Any of us mischaracterizing them is as bad as any of them mischaracterizing us.
If they were persecuted for being godly the Middle east would be christian by now
The channel called Ready To Harvest (which does very informative videos about various denominations) has an awesome video comparing Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy, I highly recommend it. Just search it here on RUclips.
Thanks for the info!
More people need to see this. So I'm commenting.
I love watching your interview and when the interview is with oriental orthodox scholars I am all ears. We ( Ethiopian orthodox ) recently experienced execution and the situation become worse over time. I pray God may give us strength to stand strong till this day passed. I understand from the interview the Coptic church get used to the execution but it is new experience for us as list in recent history
I love Egyptian archeology & history but never knew of the Coptic church originating there
This was really interesting. If you are based in Chicago, you should meet the *Assyrian Church*, which is neither Orthodox nor Catholic. The Patriarchal See used to be based in Chicago for a while because, like the Coptic Church, they were persecuted due to religious beliefs in Iraq. It touches the issue of Nestorianism, they follow the East Syriac rite, and the Pope has good relations with them.
I've attempted to set something up! No luck yet, but we'll see
I love the (Coptic?) Orthodox creed (Roman Catholic here). I doubt that the amount of Faith Fr. shows is possible without persecution (as Copts definitely have experienced)..
Excellent. ✝️
Hope you enjoy it!
@@GospelSimplicity I know that I will! If you are further intrigued by this interview, I highly suggest talking to Reader/Chanter Daniel, Polish Miaphysite on RUclips.
This channel and its viewers are about to have contact with the most persecuted church in all of Church history (which continues up to today). When it comes to the meat and potatoes of what the Bride of Christ is, as she prepares herself for The Wedding Day, objectively speaking the Oriental Orthodox Communion stands above all other communions in praxis. It’s was discerning this fruit which ultimately swayed me in the debates which rage amongst dyophysites and miaphysites. Christ told us that the surest way to identify which teachers to accept, that it was the fruit they bore. Any honest discussion between a Chalcedonian and non-Chalcedonian will end with the non-Chalcedonian accepting that the Tome of Leo is theoretically and semantically orthodox in light of the Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox 5th Ecumenical Council (while still rejecting what Chalcedon ultimately is), and the Chalcedonian accepting that whether or not they believe that further development into the Christology of the hypostatic union was necessary… that the Oriental Orthodox believe that which all of Christianity believed, unchanged, before Chalcedon. If something is orthodox, it can never cease to be orthodox, so to call us heretics is to call all Christians before Chalcedon heretics. The only time either side will sling accusations of heresy at each other is when they refuse to let the other side state and explain what they believe in their own words, the accusations are born only of those who have decided that they know better what another believes than that other person themselves.
God bless you and Abouna Anthony in your discourse. ✝️
You should do a video on The Church of the East!
From an EO: Once we co-signed on the dotted line in 1990 that we had the same faith, that was it. We should have been the same church. The very definition of Orthodox unity is unity "in faith". We have the same faith, full stop. Everything else preventing us from uniting is historical hand-wringing, phyletism, and pride. If both church families had a modicum of pride, we would simply affirm a statement that says that two two sister churches will always have enduringly different ideas on what happened in the freaking 500's, but that we proceed as a united front, and bend in love to remove unhelpful anathemas stemming from a now-healed wound. My brother Fr. Anthony calls them "more traditional thinking", and he's being pastorally sensitive in this choice of words. In fact, they're prideful, schism-loving turds who need to repent for their roles in keeping the one true faith apart. I think the most likely course for reconciliation is for one of the non-state-financed EO patriarchates, such as Antioch, Alexandria or Jerusalem, to simply declare themselves in communion with the OO churches and get on with the hard business of bringing our problem children to see the err of their ways.
I really resonate with this comment
@a there’s very little difference between our “faiths” to the point of where no one outside considers us different
@ Ray Fulmer - the Antiochene and Alexandrian EO and OO churches have communion agreements with each other but not with the rest of the other side.
The Romanian and Indian synods signed off on reunion and I believe they may allow communion from any EO or OO or at the very least, in exceptional cases.
It seems like we’re already in a sort of imperfect communion without acknowledging it.
@@jacobbaradaeus6250 Yes. And actually, even within the Antiochian and OCA there are many OO allowed to commune for pastoral reasons. i.e. they cannot possibly get to an OO church, so they come to the EO.
The whole thing makes me ill. At this point in time, we need to be mending fences and uniting for strength in faith wherever possible. There's likely more practical theological difference from one parish to another than there is between the formal doctrines of the two Orthodox communions. We often go to seminary together, attend each other's scholar conferences.... it's just this old world pride that we can't scratch a few names off of the anathema list and just say "maybe it was true then, but we'll never know, and it doesn't matter now".
I'm a Catholic, and I found this enlightening, now I know our Coptic brothers are not monophysites
Interview the Ethiopian Orthodox Church next
Why didn't Fr. Mourad mention the Malankara Orthodox Church? That is an autocephalous church within the OO communion that is communion with the Coptic Orthodox Church.
Probably forgot. Just had a Malankara Orthodox guest at my church last week. Always a joy to see our family members from the sister churches.
Hello I suggest you also do an interview with father Tadros yaacoub Malaty of Sporting Church in alexandria he is an elder and an expert in the early fathers life and coptic orthodox theology
St george sporting church*
So awesome! Well done
I am a cradle Antiochian Orthodox. When I went to a Coptic Church I found it very different. Women were on one side- all heads covered, men on the other. Arabic, Coptic, Greek and some English spoken during the liturgy. No choir and procession had cymbals. To me it seemed very different.
G'day Austin, thanks heaps for shining a light on the Coptic Orthodox Tradition! If you're looking for more ideas for future videos may I suggest one on Miaphysite Christology? I don't think this topic is covered nearly enough in the realm of apologetics, which results in many people incorrectly labelling our brothers and sisters in the Oriental Orthodox Church as 'monophysite'. While there are probably a number of people out there who could provide great insight on this topic, I've heard of this site called "Polish Miaphysite" run by Daniel Michalski, who has written extensively on the Christology shared by the Coptic, Armenian, Eritrean, Ethiopian, Indian, and Syriac traditions. Anyway, love your videos and God bless you :)
Since you cover it a little bit in this video, maybe I should have said a bit more of an in depth examination of it.
I'm intrigued
Politics: the best way to divide people.
This was a good one.
Thanks!
Wow! Praise Yod He Vau He Yeshua Jesus Christ for blessed chat! Ya both have the same Good Shepard icon behind yas on Book shelf!
Austin - found your channel about 6 months ago and am now a subscriber - very rare for me. A suggestion: I think would be a fantastic thing to see an ongoing compilation of your “final four” being answered by your various distinguished guests. The answers can be deeply touching, and seeing them compiled across the many denominations would be an effective way to demonstrate that there is in fact much unity among us Christians. Full disclosure - I’m a Catholic who was raised Lutheran until about age 5. Also, if you’re interested, there is a Catholic lay movement that focuses on bringing unity to the world, including but not limited to unity among Christians. It’s name is The Focolare Movement. I recommend that you look into it and perhaps invite them to your show.
Thanks for subscribing! That's something I'm working on! At least at the end of the year, if not sooner, I'll put together some compilation videos from those questions
Thanks
I am Armenian. I admire our Christian history. I was baptized as a baby in an Armenian Orthodox Church but had a very little knowledge of the Gospel and the teachings of the Bible. Since I am an Armenian, I can say that majority of Armenian don’t know anything about Christianity. They don’t know the gospel neither do they know Jesus. It’s because the religious leaders have done very bad job discipling the people. I think it’s the same thing with a lot of Orthodox churches.
There are a lot of truths in orthodox teachings but without the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, no one could have been saved just by His incarnation and His teachings.
Thank you.
This guy looks and acts just like my physical therapist who is Coptic orthodox. He was always so amazed I knew about Coptics and I knew the name of the Coptic pope (they have a pope just like Catholics). The guy was from Cairo. He was a sworn defender of the Coptic orthodox. He was tattooed to proof it. You know, the Muslim brotherhood often beat up and sometimes killed coptics. Their ancient cathedral was bombed and heavily damaged. Pope Francis sent the Coptics something like $23 million for repairs. I didn’t ask my Coptic therapist wether he was sworn to point of death to defend Coptics from Muslims. But I told him I was sure glad he was here in Newport Beach CA instead of Cairo. To save his life. He was beaming in glowing pride that his dedication to Coptic Christianity and his Coptic pope was recognized far off here in California.
Thanks for this interview. Lovely man with an important point about persecution and the gifts of the Coptic Church. Forgive me if I need to make one observation though. When asked to summarize the Gospel, he instead summarized the Law. I hope upon reflection he knows the difference.
The Gospel is the Law of love in Christ.
@MJ - with all due respect, it may be that Fr. Anthony knows what you refer to, but his and in general, the Orthodox/Eastern understanding of what the Gospel means, may be different from your own.
The Good news is the entirety of the incarnation and not just the crucifixion and resurrection. Christ saves us by becoming one of us and teaching us how to be like Him (living and dying for us) so that we may be united with Him forever.
Covered 4 of the 5 big extant groups, now you just need to find someone for the Assyrian Church of the East!
Know anyone who would be a good representative?
@@GospelSimplicity It seems that AssyrianFaith on RUclips would be a good candidate! They're a very tiny group now (a lot of them actually joined with Rome to become the Chaldean Church, and some actually joined with the (Eastern) Orthodox in the late 19th century, but due to Muslim massacres, this group was essentially wiped out), but at one point they were the largest body in all of Christendom, stretching into India and even China at some points. They are sort of the polar opposite of the Coptics as they would be called Nestorians, which isn't too unfair seeing as they venerate Nestorius as a saint and serve a liturgy in his name, although they argue the traditional representation of Nestorius' theology is inaccurate.
These Christians experience a lot of persecution in Egypt.
Austin, where did you hear that _most_ EO churches have pews? Couldn’t be further from the truth (unless you hyper-focus on Greek American parishes). Great interview, by the way! Always fascinating to hear from Coptic Christians themselves.
Of the 4 Eastern Orthodox church buildings I have been inside of in NY state (OCA, Antiochian, Greek, and Macedonian) all have pews. Two of them were specifically built as Orthodox churches. In North Macedonia, where I have also visited 4 churches, none had pews and I have never been in one anywhere else.
I think older Orthodox congregations in the eastern US are more likely to have pews. Often congregations made up of converts (especially Antiochian and OCA in the west) are less likely to have pews. In my experience it's mainly the Greeks that have pews, but I've attended primarily convert EO churches.
@@KayElayempea Of all the Orthodox churches in this world, how many do you think have pews (a Western innovation which did not exist in Orthodox parishes until significant later interaction predominantly with Protestants-whether by purchase of originally Protestant church buildings in the New World or via cultural influence)? Looking at the bigger picture, I’d guess 10-20% _max._ You’ll find higher rates in places like Greece or the United States, but overall it’s impossible to say that _most_ Orthodox churches in general have pews.
@@nuzzi6620 I don't you are correct. I was just really considering churches in the USA, although I did say that in my limited experience outside the US the situation is different.
@Nuzzi - pews are a troubling, invasive phenomenon in most of the OO churches in the US as well!
Coptic would be the only other Faith I would ever be if I wasn't EO.
That's really interesting. Why is that?
What's the difference between Coptics and other orthodox "sects"?
Around my town there are only syrian orthodox churches.
@@ricardooliveira9774 There's Oriental Orthodox and "Eastern" Orthodox. We aren't sects as 'Orthodox' means the opposite of sect as sects are groups that believe in heterodox things.
Coptics are Oriental Orthodox. They are the closest to the Orthodox Catholic Church (what Westerners call Eastern Orthodox) as we believe almost the exact same things and our main Traditions are almost the same. There's very little separating the two. It's just that they don't accept any Ecumenical Council after the 3rd. If we could bridge that gap it wouldn't take too long to be in communion (which means in Eucharistic Communion, partaking of the Holy Eucharist together).
Syrians are part of the Oriental Orthodox Church. They too might be as close as the Coptics however I haven't really looked into them.
@@GospelSimplicity They are the closest to the Eastern Orthodox in terms of belief and practice. 😊
@@LadyMaria Thanks for answering.
I said sects, and I put it under "" because I didn't remember the exact word, my bad.
I notice you both have the same “Christ the Good Shepherd” icon in the background!
Dear Austen, as a Coptic (Greek-leaning) Orthodox Christian raised in Egypt, I highly recommend you view the mokattam mountain incident briefly and accurately recounted on Wikipedia (The Muslim caliph, who wanted to brutally and officially murder every single Coptic Christian if they don't move a mountain, is there. Yes. You've correctly read that. :'D )
You can even watch the movie, humbly directed by the Coptic Orthodox church, here on RUclips which you don't purchase since the Coptic church believes love is not self-seeking. (Note: the same Coptic Christians who were involved in this incident are the ones who live in Egypt today. How? Since it is illegal according to Islamic law, Sahih-Al-bukhari, to change your religion from Muslim to Christian or you'd be executed: meaning that the Coptic Christians of today are NOT hybrid or converts.)
However, I first recommend you watch this movie also from the Coptic church which literally enables you to TASTE rather than hear about Coptic spirituality. (note: the church directed almost every early church saint movie! Thousands of translated movies from St. Anthony the great and the Mokattam movie to St. Mary of Egypt etc.. Such movies truly bring you into the very scene and ambience of the early church)
There it is on RUclips: ruclips.net/video/EYd-tCYYWyE/видео.html
I left this one a mystery so you can go investigate who this is about.
P.S. you guys have the exact same icon of Jesus in the background XD!
Where does this priest get his icons? I need some icons.
I thought canon 6 of Nicea differentiates primacy of Alexandria and Antioch. Antioch is considered the Syriac Orthodox Church which is an Oriental Orthodox Church.
I keep hearing “the minutes” what book is that?
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You could ask questions like what ya think of church autonomy!
Church councils dry and pull of saints discussing theology ? Ask Aries about Nicholas. Ho Ho Ho! (Yeah I know some say that’s apocryphal…. But it does give you a better idea of some of the stuff at councils. The Holy Spirit is, of course, amazing)
Thanks! If if the Apostle Mark founded their church when did they start using the 7 sacraments?
My understanding of the Christological difference between the Oriental Orthodox (OO) and Eastern Orthodox (EO) is this:
OO believe that the incarnate Christ is 1 divine-human particular nature, and the divine and human properties are distinct from one another.
EO believe that the incarnate Christ is 1 divine particular nature, and the divine and human general natures are distinct from one another.
This difference is caused by two different philosophical presuppositions:
OO presuppose a conceptual distinction between a particular nature and a general nature, due to the fact that a general nature is a conceptual grouping/compendium of particular natures.
EO presuppose a real distinction between particular natures and general natures, while general natures only exist in particular natures EO nonetheless view them as being distinct in reality.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
@a By "rhetorical trick of theirs", are you saying that they are being deceitful? What are the variety of views they have?
@a Are you cradle Orthodox or also a convert? If a convert, when? Are there also deceitful EO, you think? I plan to check out your recommendation shortly.
@a Please do not take offence... I've listened to quite a few of his arguments in the past and find characters such as him to be very dangerous and divisive; and here is why: 1. Never in any of his talks has he or any of his comrades ever proven that Oriental Orthodox Christians have deviated from what they had always believed; and 2. He fails to emphasise that the Alexandrian Pope had previously condemned the Monophysite heresy. To me those are of extreme importance; and it is mere slander until both points are honestly addressed.
Now, I'm no theologian nor an historian, but if a Pope preemptively promulgates a Tome for all to accept, and then is absent from the Council, then why should that Council be embraced without question? To your knowledge, is it true that Pope Leo did not attend?
@a I have seen quite a few of his videos over the span of two or more years, some of which are in that playlist. The debate he had with the Oriental Orthodox failed to prove that they were ever Monophysite; and after failing to do so, I no longer take him seriously on that topic. Must I listen to 20-hours of a one-sided argument to be convinced? when he failed to do so in a debate? This guy reminds me of an arrogant builder who once insisted that my last name was "Payton" in spite of me repeatedly telling him it is not. So Copts are not Monophysite because we insist that they are.
Don't let these folks draw you away with pseudo-intellectual talks, as they are accountable to no one, and only poison the minds of those not willing to hear both sides of the argument. I often wonder if their confession fathers sanction these talks. Do their parish priests and bishops agree with their opinions? And, what are their credentials?
@a So if now they're not Monophysite, then what exactly makes them "heterodox"? I actually just less than 10-mins ago had to switch from another of his videos, since he added nothing new. And I just heard him claim that the 5th Council cleaned up the language of the 4th -- strange admission to make if that is true... But who exactly is he for me to take seriously as my teacher? Who is his bishop? Do you know?
Now I can't help but to speculate the following: If Cyril of Alexandria is a Saint, then so is Dioscorus; and if Pope Leo is a Saint, then so is Nestorius.
love
Flavian wrote a letter to Leo several months after Ephesus II. He complains about the council, but doesn't mention anything about being beaten. Also, the Eastern Orthodox commemoration of Flavian is not anywhere near the council of Ephesus II. The narrative of his beating and death at Ephesus II is false.
Orthodoxy... ❤️
So is the Coptic church in communion with the eastern Orthodox church?
Not officially
No, not since they invented a parallel episcopacy after denying the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon around 397-460AD.
Syriacs, Ethiopean/Eritrean, Armenians, and Malabar "orthodox" are oriental "orthodox" or nonchalcedonians meaning they only hold to the first 3 of the 7 ecumenical councils. (1st Nicea, 1st Constantinople, Ephesus)
They hold a different Christological view from the (Eastern) Orthodox Catholic Church commonly called monophysitism (denying Christ is fully God and fully man) but which they call miaphysitism.
Unlike the Eastern Orthodox churches the Oriental churches can vary widely in their core traditions especially the Ethiopeans who hold 1 Enoch as scripture.
They were cut off from the rest of Christendom for centuries after the rise of Islam.
Fr. Meyendorff's "Imperial Unity & Christian Divisions" is a very good book on the history of this schism. It had a lot to do with politics in the Eastern Roman Empire and Alexandrians having a chip on their shoulder due to the city being knocked down the 3rd place after Constantinople and Rome when St. Constantine moved the capital.
It's probably the most complex schism to try and understand as it involves very complex theology.
We pray at some point it will be healed, especially as communication between the orientals and eastern orthodox has resumed in recent decades as the yoke of Islam has been partially ameliorated.
@ Navel-Gazing Neo-Palamite -
Brother, pardon me if I’m wrong. Your words seem to indicate that Misphysitism means ‘denying Christ is fully God and fully man’.
I don’t recall Pope St. Cyril ever using the word ‘Mono’physite in his formula. The ‘commonly used word’, that is, ‘Monophysite’ that you refer to is indeed an easy slur for many who use it.
Its ‘common use’ either lies or is ignorant about what we believe, by claiming we believe in only ‘One Nature’ as opposed to ‘Two Natures’, by skipping over the crucial word ‘incarnate’ in between ‘One’ and ‘Nature’.
Any description of us believing in ‘One Nature’ instead of saying we believe in ‘One Incarnate Nature’ is either flat out wrong or a willful lie or May God forgive, both.
Shlomo
@ Navel-gazing Palamite -
Also -
The non-Chalcedonians existed both within the empire and beyond it as well. The Armenians and Ethiopians never had to create a parallel episcopacy.
Within the empire, both groups existed as warring factions within the same Church, for a hundred years after Chalcedon.
Without the Emperor Justinian forcing the issue by jailing non-Chalcedonian bishops within the empire and taking over episcopal sees where the laity were overwhelmingly non-Chalcedonian - to win the Latins to his side and recapture the West - there would have been no need for parallel hierarchies.
If anything, the creator of the parallel Episcopal hierarchy was the Empress Theodora, who is not only a saint of ours but an EO saint as well.
More to the point, Justinian, also an EO saint tacitly allowed this instead of preventing his wife (wanting the cake and eating it too?).
The instigator and facilitator of the parallel hierarchies for non-Chalcedonian majority areas within the Empire were both EO saints who also ruled the Empire together.
Like the old Scottish Covenanters believed down with the prelates - Anglican bishops and the divine right of the kings! They wrote the covenant in their own blood!
Very informative and enjoyable. P.S. Wearing those ear buds in the ears are very dangerous. They cause brain cancer. God Bless.
Captions be like: "council of calcium"
Brothers and sisters, stop saying Oriental and Eastern. It's called [nationality] Orthodox.
I thank God for leading me to the Coptic Orthodox Church. But we are all going to be one church in the end so I have nothing but love for Christians everywhere who love God and express that love in their life. Theology is fun to discuss but we can never forget that God is seeking after our hearts, not our brains.
I loved Father Anthony! And I love the Coptic Christians. My only disagreement was when he summarized the Gospel as loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, strength and loving your neighbor as yourself. When we are commanded to love it is an expression of Law and not Gospel. The Gospel is what God has done for us in Christ apart from the Law. But I love him nonetheless!
@Logica Redux - we believe it is the Word of God (the ‘un-incarnate’ Christ) who gave Moses the Law on Mt. Sinai and the same Word of God, clothed in our flesh as the incarnate Christ, who clarified to the Pharisee what the law He gave Moses meant.
@@jacobbaradaeus6250 Very true Jacob!
I pray and wish you would stand up for evangelical distinctions and discuss that with the non Evangelical Guests!
There are plenty of people who do that well. I've deliberately chosen to try to be a neutral interviewer. However, I'm always happy to point people towards those who are great evangelical voices