Use CAN terminators, You know, typically one 120 ohm terminator at each end of the longest length of the network, also if you have long branches you can have terminators at the end of those, but preferably raise the terminator resistance to keep the total equivalent termination over 60 ohm, any smaller and you will over load the signals. This cleans up the signal by preventing reflections.
This sounds a lot like an EOL issue which is what I was thinking about. It sounds like if the EOL is not a certain resistance, the circuit doesn't detect anything, or detects that the circuit was left open or shorted, which could be causing issues with the CAN network.... Am I on the right track?
Usually you need some sort of resistors in a CAN network. Also, if you have shielding on the cables, you'll want to make sure those are connected together so there aren't any gaps. Looks like the splits you made in the cable didn't connect the shielding foils. A shielded cable that isn't connected to ground can actually result in more interference than if it were unshielded.
I was basically screaming at the video too with this! I designed a product that was to be installed into Vehicles and I had to build my own CanBus on my desk, you need the resistors for it to work for sure!
Check your termination resistor configuration. You should have two and only two 120 ohm terminations, on the furthest ends of the bus. These can be internal to the devices on the ends. Sometimes things designed to be at bus ends will have hardwired internal terminations which will screw you over if they aren't on the ends. Other devices will have a software configurable termination resistor. You can check your terminations by measuring between CAN+ and CAN- and you should always see 60 ohms anywhere on the bus. If its lower than that you have extra resistors somewhere and it won't work.
Can't stand terminator resistors going out, absolutely correct measuring should be appropriate. Most software naturally expell information most of the time just have to be aware of this
I’ve both installed and troubleshot hundreds of CAN installations, in an industrial environment. I completely agree with your thoughts. I was thinking “termination” the whole time Zack was working on it.
A few thing I noticed. 1. You should have termination resistors on the last module on each end of the network, usually they are integrated to the modules but yours might not have them, usually 120 Ohms each, bridging the two com wires on each end, your network should measure 60 Ohms between the two com wires when everything is off. 2. Your splices should be properly soldered, dont use those heat shrink with solder they dont make a good connection, it doesn't even look like you heated them enough to melt the solder anyway. 3. At your splices you should make sure the shielding is connected, it needs to be continuous, no breaks, and usually it is grounded as well.
regarding point 2 that isnt really true as we use them on aircraft all the time. main thing is ensuring uniform heat distribution to melt the solder without destoying the insulation. You should be using the deflector when melting them and it works fine.
I'll say I'm a hybrid JerryRigEverything subscriber. I only watch the EV/energy/wheelchair related videos and never watch the device teardowns. So seeing a new hummer EV video after half a year was like Christmas!
I love electric supercars channel is one of my favs glad you're collaborating again. can't wait for his next video. I was writing this long comment about how I'd love to see you guys collaborate more and then you literally pull it up to his new garage... Epic.... made my day thanks 😃
One of my neighbors recently got your wheelchair as a gift from his grandkids and he absolutely loves it!! He told me he is now able to reliably get on the greenbelt and out of the house! He is so thankful for all the work you do!
The Rivian is not a towing vehicle. It's tiny. It's about the size of a small Kia SUV. Like a Hyundai Santa Fe. You could tow a jet ski or a snow mobile or motorcycle, but not much more than that. It's smaller than compact pickups like Colorado and ranger, and about the same size ass a Tacoma. It's a car frame with a truck body. Like a Baja or El Camino.
Hey Zak Thanks for the update on your amazing project. Your work at Not a Wheelchair is important and anyone who follows your videos knows that. Thanks again for all the work that you do. Cambry and yourself are making the world a better place with all of your projects. As Always I will be waiting for the next video.
I know some folks have already mentioned that you need termination resistors on your CAN Bus, this is a good place to start. I've worked on CAN a fair bit for industrial automation and tend to refer back to "Application Report SLLA270" By Texas Instruments, it has a wealth of knowledge on how to properly set up a CAN Bus. Another tidbit if you're still having noise issues after that. A lot of times instead of a 120 ohm resistor we'll put 2 60 ohm resistors in series and then throw a capacitor to ground at the junction of the two 60 ohm resistors to make a low pass filter. We'll usually use a 1nf one when operating a 1Mbps bus but just tune your rc filter so the -3db point is ~2.5-3x your baudrate.
That is strange. You popped into my head, Jerry, because i have a new youtube account, and i can remember the last video i saw of you was with this hummer. 6 months flies. And now you are talking about your hummer. Can't believe it still hasn't been finished. I'm glad i remembered you.
Nice! An update on the EV Humvee! I've worked a lot with CAN networks (industrial applications). If the issue is electric, you should have a comm lines impedance lower then 60 ohms (ohms meter between the 2 CAN COMM lines should be 60 ohms if the terminations are correct). I have no idea how you setup the device IDs on your hardware, but you usually need to set those, set your master, node 1, and slaves, node greater then 1, and what information/actions they all hold. Good luck!
6:53 Is this a solder type or crimp type heat shrink/environmental shield? If it's a solder type, you really gotta heat them up to let the solder flow to ensure the wires don't get pulled out and ensure good connection. If crimp type, then super cool!
1st of all: welcome back! Your build quality is outstanding! CAN data is sent out as a differential pair to avoid common mode noise and needs a railroad (no branches) with stubs as short as reasonable, I use 22awg tsp (twisted shielded pair) wire with 4" stubs, main buss length totally doesn't matter. The 120 ohm terminator on each end is essential, we could talk about characteristic impedance, rise times, and signal bounce back. You are well advised to use the correct wire for good data quality. The data actually travels as a wave and the terminators stop the wave at the end of the line, your data destination can't see the data line voltages changing if it's all mixed up with data that took a longer path and arrived at a later time and then he data packets will be rejected - like playing a musical instrument in a hard room, the terminators are like wall acoustic tiles that absorb the data preventing bounce back data noise. You don't actually need to have an on-board-charger to run the EV, golf carts leave the heavy transformer & rectifier at home. Solar on your home roof providing DC current into your EV Battery is efficient. Place an inverter in your home to power your home with vehicle battery power.
I might be biased being a wheelchair user but I appreciate and fully support this project taking a back seat to your making wheelchairs cheaper project. I hope you and the family had a wonderful Christmas and a happy and successful new year (especially with the garden!).
Man you have no idea how happy I was when I saw this update on my feed. Been waiting for a long time to see the next step in this series, well worth the wait! Thanks for the update!
This Can Network issue might be happening because there should be 120ohm resistors at the end of the lines. If you can read the Can Network messages using programs like Pcan View, Pcan Explorer or BusMaster then there shouldn't be a problem. Then the problem might be about individual components might not know the messages they sent to each other. Can Network devices communicates with each other with message id's and datas. If the recieving device does not know the id and how to decode the message that means just bunch of zeros and ones coming to it. So there might be some configuration needed component based
I was also thinking about the resistors needed. Sometimes 2 of the devices on the CAN network will already contain the terminators since they are at the ends of the CAN bus. But since this is a custom design I don't know which parts if any would have them built-in.
@@razredge68 usually those devices are the display and the VCU but it's entirly possible for other components to esp if from a tesla (which has multiple canbusses BTW) to have them built in aswell. abdullah is also correct in the the devices may not be configured to talk with eachother correctly on the bus.
Thank you!! Been hoping and waiting for a Kids Rig to come out. Just placed my order today. We have run into each other at the local events here and am very thankful for your efforts to bring this out at this price! Our son has Spina Bifida, and he's a full time wheel chair user. This will allow us to get out and go for a bike ride together. Can't wait till it's ready!!
I think it's funny how you towed a massive hummer with a massive pick up and delivered it at night and the only noise was the trailer creaking. Happy new year to everyone. All the best
Hey! one thing i wanted to suggest is throwing some led's in the area of the charger port. That way you can see and line up plugging in the charger in the dark. My BIGGEST pet peeve with current commercial EV's. Makes it a PIA to get things plugged in quickly when on the move.
@@aleks138 true and i may be the only one that has trouble with this at times but I have a jeep 4xe and when it s really dark out it sometimes takes a bunch of finangling to get the charge plug set right. Usually ends up with me digging out a flashlight. Just thought this would be super cool if it was on a door release switch so that when the charge cap is open it illuminates a led strip around the port to illuminate it. Its only a minor inconvenience but sometimes little things like that make a difference
CAN bus guy here. You should look at your CAN devices and see if they have internal termination options either as a physical jumper or through software selection. You want the end devices at opposite ends of the bus to terminate. Terminate is a 120 ohm resistance to stop data reflections. Of course everything needs to be at same CAN bus baud rate too...
@6:56 Not a fan of those type of connectors. Not always a good positive solder joint. Possible overheating point and difficult to pinpoint without a voltage drop test or thermal imaging. I hope yours work Great for Decades!👍 Mike in San Diego.🌞🎸🚀🖖
My thought exactly, better to use a solder-sleeve reflector nozzle. Way less hot air loss, due to concentrated airflow. The solder needs to dissolve completely into the strands.
Yup, those cold solder joints, non-continuous ground shielding, and (likely) incorrect can bus termination. It all adds up. I don't recall seeing Zack whip out the laptop to configure (via USB) the display or anything else.
Only suggestions are to confirm presence of your terminating resistors, and to make sure everything in the system is running unique IDs and running the same baud rate. Good luck 🤞
It would be better to use network cable for your CAN bus, like CAT5e or CAT6. That way it's shielded and twisted pairs. The wire you're using is WAY too thick to be used in a CANbus. Remember, it's just signals wire, not power wires. Take a look at any car from the last 10 years in the junk yard to get an idea of the wire gage to use.
Hello, cool Project. I want to add 2 things: first. The shrink-solder-splice at7:00 is not soldered, just the flux is molten. That is very unfortunate, maybe contact at the beginning but with time it will likeley fail. And it will propely fail intermittend. Shrink-solder-splice are difficult to apply on low melting wires. second: Maybe an upgrade to 4 Motors instead of differentials and gearbox🤩
Hey Zack. Mechatronics Engineer here. That's a common problem in CAN wiring. You should have two resistors across the CAN-H and CAN-L at the farthest nodes of the CAN network. 120 Ohms is the standard resistor used especially since you are using the Orion BMS module.
Watching the hummer go through sand at 00:48, I was reminded of the first real test of the Humvee in Iraq, where they landed with hovercraft and offloaded several Humvees, which immediately got stuck going over the first sand berm on the beach! Hoping yours can hold its own! ;)
Besides the terminating resistors what everybody is saying, check the shielding. Connect it through when you branch off and ground it on all ends. Also run the CAN cable away from any (high) power lines. At least 10cm away. And also you can double check the software settings.
For can, you also need to check and make sure every device is communicating over the correct frequency. You may also need a terminating resistor at the end of the trunk.
@Tsukeh I used to fall asleep in my stepdad's diesel truck all the time, so the diesel rumble is rather calming to me. I really dislike the smell that comes off of a lot of diesel trucks, though
2 года назад+6
@@GotDamBoi Still he is not comparing to the diesel version, he just says that the sound is annoying, which it is
Keep on going. The wheelchair objective is way more important than the Hummer. Love to watch the hummer project and all other content. but there are more noble goals to life. One of them is getting afordable ways of transport for the impared people
Awesome to see an update thought about commenting on the last few video's but as you stated you had so many other awesome projects I didn't think you needed that.... Hope you can get it figured out and working and 1 day I can drive past you on the freeway, honk,wave, show my shirt, and wave...
Yep should be twisted pair throughout, with no more than 30cm from each component to the main trunk. There should only be two termination resistors in the network, ideally at the end components. More than 2 in a single network can cause issues.
Twisted pairs aren't necessary if the cable shielding's properly managed (lookup Belden's DeviceNet, which is CAN, cabling). And the 120 ohms should only be present at each end of the trunk, in order to get the 60ohms lines impedance required.
@@benfowler2127 Just the end of the line, maybe? If each device has one, then it's just multiple 120 Ohm resistors in parallel. Enough of those could effectively short out the CAN-H and CAN-L lines.
I can't believe those K1 attack roadster kits are still going strong 20+ years later And im double impressed that they still look modern and fit in with current year cars too.
Sometimes flashing the aftermarket firmware solves the problems with CANBUS driver within the software. Otherwise, did you check the continuity between the plugs, and are they already twisted pairs within the cables? (It's VERY important that SPI and CANBUS cables are twisted due to the frequency they operate at - 20 MHz or faster depending on automotive electronics involved, which also MUST agree to operate at same frequency in CANBUS so you don't get data collisions.) EDITED: People are correct about the terminator resistors. Forgot about that...
In addition to having the correct terminating resistors you need to know what communication protocol you are using. RS 485, j1939, rs232 etc. That will determine the structure of the communication network. You would also need to program buad rate and addresses into the system.
I agree with your decision. One have to prioritize projects based on importance and working on the wheelchair company would obviously be a higher priority than the hummve which is more of a personal project.
The termination resistor was my first thought too. This looks like a problem I had faced, and adding a termination resistor fixed it. Normally, the CAN protocol has a feature called CSMA/CD (Carrier Sense Multiple Access/Collision Detection) and it is this feature that handles the timing and arbitration of information exchange between the master and the slaves. About the baud rate, as long as Jerry uses a simple CAN configuration (like CAN-FD) I guess the baud rates are standardized across manufacturers at 250Kb/s or 500Kb/s or 1Mb/s. So, as long as Jerry selects one uniform setting across all devices, he *should* be able to get it up and running. Now if the clock settings are messed up in firmware (or worse, electrically) then there's nothing anyone can do about it. Can someone correct me if I've messed up? Edit:- Typos, indentation and cleared up a point I made earlier.
It seems like he can can bus messages. As far as I know mismatched baudrate downs the can bus network. My bet is the configuration of the devices. They might not know the message id's and decodes
When I first got started in the wind turbine industry, we used CAN for communication between PLC modules and man was it a pain in the ass to troubleshoot and work with. One single resistor in a CAN cable somewhere breaking lose from the solder would completely nuke the coms for the entire PLC network. Current turbines I work on use Profinet which is Parallel instead of Serial like CAN and it's been a godsend.
On top of everything else, just make sure that your shield wire is connected only in one place, at the beginning of a trunk to the ground. If it is connected in multiple places, you'll have hard-to-diagnose ground loop problems. This is related not only to CAN, but for other types of signals, where shielding is required.
I have ran into a problem with those heat shrink solder connections adding a small amount of resistance when dealing with sensitive electronics. When I had wired up my gps steering for my tractor I used 2 of those on small wire connections. I ran into issues for over a year before I found out those were the issue. My tractor would drive in circles out in the middle of the field being very weird. Changed to just good solid crimp connections with adhesive heat shrink and all issues were resolved. Going on 2 years of perfect operation.
When I install two wire spi or can I like to pigtail the taps with shielded cable right to the device. I keep the shield as close as possible to the connection. Although in some instances using cat5e twisted pair can work well too. As long as you are using the appropriate termination resistor at the end of the chain.
as already stated, check the resistances of the CAN lines, you can do so by measuring the resistance between the CAN+ and CAN- lines (it should be 60ohm), if the resistance is correct, you need to check for wiring damage (and possibile contact with ground), if this also doesn't work, you may need to re-route the can wiring since there could be interference from the current flowing in other wires (which in an electric vehicle is substantial). these solutions are listend in order of likelihood, i also assume that all computing units are using the same protocol (no mix and match between CAN high and CAN low)
Hi Jerry, (as English isn't my natural language I hope I am able to make myself understood here). The best way to make sure you have a working CAN-BUS is to avoid ALL branches. Route the CAN-BUS from node to node, ONLY having terminating resistors (120 ohm) in both ends. Also, you can in most cases and especially in this case where you have so few nodes choose a lower bit-rate, like 250 and even 125 kbps, to make the communication more stable. The electric design of the CAN-BUS makes it very noise resistant, why shielding most often isn't that important.
Hi Jerry. You’ve probably sorted it by now, but on the Orion 2 software there is a third party CAN communication list for specific charger units such as ELCON chargers etc. not sure what unit you are using, but it might be listed there already. Lots of these units use specific CAN PID codes that command and request specific data. It is possible to set up the ORION 2 to send and receive custom CAN data that you can edit yourself, but you would have to know what specific CAN address and data the charger is expecting to receive. also, make sure you have the “charge Enable” button set on the Orion charge settings, and that your Charge Current Limit isn’t set too low. If these are set incorrectly the ORION system wont allow your charge relay to close…if you've wired it according to their wiring manual. good luck!!! looking forward to seeing you sort it out. cheers
As long as you're using that vinyl tubing, you can pinch it off beyond where you need to cut it, to avoid draining the system and then having to refill it and completely purge it of air.
It's your butt connectors. Either solder them directly or use poke and wrap method. I install telematics and tracking system in vehicles that require tapping into the can bus. Ideally you would use y slitters with can plugs where the only time a wire terminates is inside the plugs. Or use the poke and wrap method to add connections
Sorry I'm a big follower but just a small thought when it won't charge it might be that the can bus system might not be recognise the charge cause a Tesla has a flap sensor and won't charge due to seeing the flap just a thought great project by the way love from Sydney Australia cheers.
Does anybody else think that a Humvee that doesn't make sounds when under power is somewhat CREEPY? It just ain't right!! LOL!! Well done so far, and please keep us updated!!
You should not say you are not smart enough. You are, you just might not have the skillset or experience at the moment to figure out / solve problems! I hope to see this project 100% finished sometime soon! I love it.
Typically speaking OEM recommends not using solder connections(which you didn't get hot enough to flow) and using a bare butt connector and shrink tubing. Keeps the resistance within specs. And do you have termination resistors for the trunk on either end? Are all the can devices programmed for the same ISO data?
Hey man remember not everything is gonna be a homerun but it was an excellent series. Very educational and entertaining. I know you will make it great eventually!!!
Use CAN terminators, You know, typically one 120 ohm terminator at each end of the longest length of the network, also if you have long branches you can have terminators at the end of those, but preferably raise the terminator resistance to keep the total equivalent termination over 60 ohm, any smaller and you will over load the signals. This cleans up the signal by preventing reflections.
CAN is a 60 ohm network, each node must have a 120 ohm termination. & & & Mahdi you're awesome ❤️❤️
If some information is being sent and others aren't, it's in the addressing and format of the messages.
I wish this won't blow anything in the car
@@OneBigWorld2010 no, not each node.. It'd only END termination
This sounds a lot like an EOL issue which is what I was thinking about. It sounds like if the EOL is not a certain resistance, the circuit doesn't detect anything, or detects that the circuit was left open or shorted, which could be causing issues with the CAN network.... Am I on the right track?
Can we have a teardown video once it is done
Wait a minute....
😂😂😂 yes please
Ayo! Nooooo......
@@JerryRigEverything can't believe you replied thank you soooo much sir !
Gotta do a durability test first
Usually you need some sort of resistors in a CAN network. Also, if you have shielding on the cables, you'll want to make sure those are connected together so there aren't any gaps. Looks like the splits you made in the cable didn't connect the shielding foils. A shielded cable that isn't connected to ground can actually result in more interference than if it were unshielded.
120 Ohms thermination of my memory is correct.
@@michelcote
A 120 ohm resistor on each end. Parallel so the network should read ~60 ohms with a multimeter.
I *think* the CAN protocol is related to the RS-232 standard, which requires termination resistors.
I was basically screaming at the video too with this! I designed a product that was to be installed into Vehicles and I had to build my own CanBus on my desk, you need the resistors for it to work for sure!
Also at 6:59 you can see that the solder did not actually melt, thus there is not a very good connection at the splits.
Check your termination resistor configuration. You should have two and only two 120 ohm terminations, on the furthest ends of the bus. These can be internal to the devices on the ends. Sometimes things designed to be at bus ends will have hardwired internal terminations which will screw you over if they aren't on the ends. Other devices will have a software configurable termination resistor.
You can check your terminations by measuring between CAN+ and CAN- and you should always see 60 ohms anywhere on the bus. If its lower than that you have extra resistors somewhere and it won't work.
Can't stand terminator resistors going out, absolutely correct measuring should be appropriate. Most software naturally expell information most of the time just have to be aware of this
I’ve both installed and troubleshot hundreds of CAN installations, in an industrial environment. I completely agree with your thoughts. I was thinking “termination” the whole time Zack was working on it.
A few thing I noticed.
1. You should have termination resistors on the last module on each end of the network, usually they are integrated to the modules but yours might not have them, usually 120 Ohms each, bridging the two com wires on each end, your network should measure 60 Ohms between the two com wires when everything is off.
2. Your splices should be properly soldered, dont use those heat shrink with solder they dont make a good connection, it doesn't even look like you heated them enough to melt the solder anyway.
3. At your splices you should make sure the shielding is connected, it needs to be continuous, no breaks, and usually it is grounded as well.
First thing I noticed that solder didn't melt
I would like to add that CAN wires should be twisted and I couldn't tell if the wires were a twisted pair
regarding point 2 that isnt really true as we use them on aircraft all the time. main thing is ensuring uniform heat distribution to melt the solder without destoying the insulation. You should be using the deflector when melting them and it works fine.
0:50
When you paused there I thought you'd say "The charger is very important... to charging forward"
I'll steal this for next time.
Facts
I'll say I'm a hybrid JerryRigEverything subscriber. I only watch the EV/energy/wheelchair related videos and never watch the device teardowns. So seeing a new hummer EV video after half a year was like Christmas!
Short stubs shouldn't be problem on a small CAN bus like this. Do you have termination resistors at each end ?
I'm 90% sure I do. But I could be wrong. We should know exactly what's up in a few weeks with Jeremy looking into it.
I love electric supercars channel is one of my favs glad you're collaborating again. can't wait for his next video. I was writing this long comment about how I'd love to see you guys collaborate more and then you literally pull it up to his new garage... Epic.... made my day thanks 😃
One of my neighbors recently got your wheelchair as a gift from his grandkids and he absolutely loves it!! He told me he is now able to reliably get on the greenbelt and out of the house! He is so thankful for all the work you do!
Actually looking forward to the winter rivian towing video. I can already see the charging and range taking a massive hit to the point of frustration.
The Rivian is not a towing vehicle. It's tiny. It's about the size of a small Kia SUV. Like a Hyundai Santa Fe. You could tow a jet ski or a snow mobile or motorcycle, but not much more than that. It's smaller than compact pickups like Colorado and ranger, and about the same size ass a Tacoma. It's a car frame with a truck body. Like a Baja or El Camino.
@@littlejackalo5326 The Rivian has an 11,000 lbs towing capacity. That is higher than the majority of 1/2 ton ICE powered trucks.
@@Davidabston Just because it can, doesn't mean it should.
@@littlejackalo5326 the Rivian can certainly tow, but it is a short range towing vehicle. Definitely not a long range one.
@@user2C47 sure, but the Rivian should. For towing under 100 miles, the Rivian will outperform most 1/2 tons.
Hey Zak Thanks for the update on your amazing project. Your work at Not a Wheelchair is important and anyone who follows your videos knows that. Thanks again for all the work that you do. Cambry and yourself are making the world a better place with all of your projects. As Always I will be waiting for the next video.
I know some folks have already mentioned that you need termination resistors on your CAN Bus, this is a good place to start. I've worked on CAN a fair bit for industrial automation and tend to refer back to "Application Report SLLA270" By Texas Instruments, it has a wealth of knowledge on how to properly set up a CAN Bus.
Another tidbit if you're still having noise issues after that. A lot of times instead of a 120 ohm resistor we'll put 2 60 ohm resistors in series and then throw a capacitor to ground at the junction of the two 60 ohm resistors to make a low pass filter. We'll usually use a 1nf one when operating a 1Mbps bus but just tune your rc filter so the -3db point is ~2.5-3x your baudrate.
That is strange. You popped into my head, Jerry, because i have a new youtube account, and i can remember the last video i saw of you was with this hummer. 6 months flies. And now you are talking about your hummer. Can't believe it still hasn't been finished. I'm glad i remembered you.
So happy to see the Hummer is still going I was nervice that we were left behind and not able to see it completely done. Cheers from New Zealand
Nice! An update on the EV Humvee! I've worked a lot with CAN networks (industrial applications). If the issue is electric, you should have a comm lines impedance lower then 60 ohms (ohms meter between the 2 CAN COMM lines should be 60 ohms if the terminations are correct). I have no idea how you setup the device IDs on your hardware, but you usually need to set those, set your master, node 1, and slaves, node greater then 1, and what information/actions they all hold. Good luck!
6:53 Is this a solder type or crimp type heat shrink/environmental shield? If it's a solder type, you really gotta heat them up to let the solder flow to ensure the wires don't get pulled out and ensure good connection. If crimp type, then super cool!
This. At least in the video snips he included, it looks like the solder blob is not melting and so probably making poor connection.
The amount of satisfaction you'll get when this project is complete!♥️ Nothing beats DIY projects!
That's polite of you but you don't have to justify anything. We believe in you!
1st of all: welcome back! Your build quality is outstanding!
CAN data is sent out as a differential pair to avoid common mode noise and needs a railroad (no branches) with stubs as short as reasonable, I use 22awg tsp (twisted shielded pair) wire with 4" stubs, main buss length totally doesn't matter. The 120 ohm terminator on each end is essential, we could talk about characteristic impedance, rise times, and signal bounce back. You are well advised to use the correct wire for good data quality. The data actually travels as a wave and the terminators stop the wave at the end of the line, your data destination can't see the data line voltages changing if it's all mixed up with data that took a longer path and arrived at a later time and then he data packets will be rejected - like playing a musical instrument in a hard room, the terminators are like wall acoustic tiles that absorb the data preventing bounce back data noise.
You don't actually need to have an on-board-charger to run the EV, golf carts leave the heavy transformer & rectifier at home.
Solar on your home roof providing DC current into your EV Battery is efficient. Place an inverter in your home to power your home with vehicle battery power.
I might be biased being a wheelchair user but I appreciate and fully support this project taking a back seat to your making wheelchairs cheaper project. I hope you and the family had a wonderful Christmas and a happy and successful new year (especially with the garden!).
Man you have no idea how happy I was when I saw this update on my feed. Been waiting for a long time to see the next step in this series, well worth the wait! Thanks for the update!
This Can Network issue might be happening because there should be 120ohm resistors at the end of the lines. If you can read the Can Network messages using programs like Pcan View, Pcan Explorer or BusMaster then there shouldn't be a problem. Then the problem might be about individual components might not know the messages they sent to each other. Can Network devices communicates with each other with message id's and datas. If the recieving device does not know the id and how to decode the message that means just bunch of zeros and ones coming to it. So there might be some configuration needed component based
I was also thinking about the resistors needed. Sometimes 2 of the devices on the CAN network will already contain the terminators since they are at the ends of the CAN bus. But since this is a custom design I don't know which parts if any would have them built-in.
@@razredge68 usually those devices are the display and the VCU but it's entirly possible for other components to esp if from a tesla (which has multiple canbusses BTW) to have them built in aswell. abdullah is also correct in the the devices may not be configured to talk with eachother correctly on the bus.
Definitely worth the wait especially with all the other amazing stuff you had going on and accomplished.
Thank you!! Been hoping and waiting for a Kids Rig to come out. Just placed my order today. We have run into each other at the local events here and am very thankful for your efforts to bring this out at this price! Our son has Spina Bifida, and he's a full time wheel chair user. This will allow us to get out and go for a bike ride together. Can't wait till it's ready!!
Thank you! Feel free to schedule a test ride if you wanna try it out first! My video on it should be published mid to end of January.
@@JerryRigEverything Sounds good, I'll call and schedule that. Thanks again!
I have never missed a Whisper project video yet and can't wait for these to keep coming! Glad to finally see these again! Keep up the great work Zack!
I learnt so much from your videos. The way you explain everything is just incredible. Thank you!
I think it's funny how you towed a massive hummer with a massive pick up and delivered it at night and the only noise was the trailer creaking.
Happy new year to everyone. All the best
Hey! one thing i wanted to suggest is throwing some led's in the area of the charger port. That way you can see and line up plugging in the charger in the dark. My BIGGEST pet peeve with current commercial EV's. Makes it a PIA to get things plugged in quickly when on the move.
@Twon It already has one. Zack points it out at 9:00 in the video. It's a clear one that sits at roughly 1-0'clock relative to the charger port.
@@GrayRaceCat I think he means LED lights to light things up not to see if there's a connection.
the charger handle is the same shape as a gas nozzle and they only do in one way
@@aleks138 true and i may be the only one that has trouble with this at times but I have a jeep 4xe and when it s really dark out it sometimes takes a bunch of finangling to get the charge plug set right. Usually ends up with me digging out a flashlight. Just thought this would be super cool if it was on a door release switch so that when the charge cap is open it illuminates a led strip around the port to illuminate it. Its only a minor inconvenience but sometimes little things like that make a difference
@@martinfreiberger9915 You’re right, I totally missed that. That’s what I get for not reading the entire post. Thanks.
CAN bus guy here. You should look at your CAN devices and see if they have internal termination options either as a physical jumper or through software selection. You want the end devices at opposite ends of the bus to terminate. Terminate is a 120 ohm resistance to stop data reflections. Of course everything needs to be at same CAN bus baud rate too...
Just glad to see the HMV-E again!
@6:56 Not a fan of those type of connectors. Not always a good positive solder joint. Possible overheating point and difficult to pinpoint without a voltage drop test or thermal imaging.
I hope yours work Great for Decades!👍
Mike in San Diego.🌞🎸🚀🖖
6:55 - the solder ring in the shrink wrap should melt and wet the wires. Those looked like they didn't.
This.
This, the couple seconds to shrink the wrap didn’t melt the solder and is going to be a very bad connection
My thought exactly, better to use a solder-sleeve reflector nozzle. Way less hot air loss, due to concentrated airflow. The solder needs to dissolve completely into the strands.
Yup, those cold solder joints, non-continuous ground shielding, and (likely) incorrect can bus termination. It all adds up. I don't recall seeing Zack whip out the laptop to configure (via USB) the display or anything else.
Only suggestions are to confirm presence of your terminating resistors, and to make sure everything in the system is running unique IDs and running the same baud rate. Good luck 🤞
It would be better to use network cable for your CAN bus, like CAT5e or CAT6. That way it's shielded and twisted pairs. The wire you're using is WAY too thick to be used in a CANbus. Remember, it's just signals wire, not power wires. Take a look at any car from the last 10 years in the junk yard to get an idea of the wire gage to use.
Hello, cool Project. I want to add 2 things: first. The shrink-solder-splice at7:00 is not soldered, just the flux is molten. That is very unfortunate, maybe contact at the beginning but with time it will likeley fail. And it will propely fail intermittend. Shrink-solder-splice are difficult to apply on low melting wires.
second: Maybe an upgrade to 4 Motors instead of differentials and gearbox🤩
"since communication is a healthy part of a new relationship" you got me there Jerry!
Hey Zack. Mechatronics Engineer here. That's a common problem in CAN wiring. You should have two resistors across the CAN-H and CAN-L at the farthest nodes of the CAN network. 120 Ohms is the standard resistor used especially since you are using the Orion BMS module.
Yeah been waiting for it!!
Love this project!
Watching the hummer go through sand at 00:48, I was reminded of the first real test of the Humvee in Iraq, where they landed with hovercraft and offloaded several Humvees, which immediately got stuck going over the first sand berm on the beach! Hoping yours can hold its own! ;)
Finally a Hummer update. I'm okay with waiting if it means you are making wheelchairs cheaper and prioritizing your family.
Me my self is electrical enthusiast, your electrical lay out are very clean yet it works very well.
8:54 love the sticker just so everyone knows 😂
Besides the terminating resistors what everybody is saying, check the shielding. Connect it through when you branch off and ground it on all ends. Also run the CAN cable away from any (high) power lines. At least 10cm away.
And also you can double check the software settings.
Not a wheelchair is arguably more important so the lack of hummer vids is 100% fair
For can, you also need to check and make sure every device is communicating over the correct frequency. You may also need a terminating resistor at the end of the trunk.
that coilwhine noise it produces would drive me insane real fast
still sounds 1000x better than a diesel truck
@@GotDamBoi that's very individual. My ears are sensitive to extremely high pitched sounds, so diesel rumbling is easier to handle, *for me* at least.
@Tsukeh I used to fall asleep in my stepdad's diesel truck all the time, so the diesel rumble is rather calming to me. I really dislike the smell that comes off of a lot of diesel trucks, though
@@GotDamBoi Still he is not comparing to the diesel version, he just says that the sound is annoying, which it is
@@GotDamBoi Not a chance. That whine is ear-piercing.
Keep on going. The wheelchair objective is way more important than the Hummer. Love to watch the hummer project and all other content. but there are more noble goals to life. One of them is getting afordable ways of transport for the impared people
Always love when you add another one to Humvee series
Awesome to see an update thought about commenting on the last few video's but as you stated you had so many other awesome projects I didn't think you needed that....
Hope you can get it figured out and working and 1 day I can drive past you on the freeway, honk,wave, show my shirt, and wave...
0:29 Your secret is safe with us. No one will ever know (until the big reveal).
Great update, my wife got me the whisper project t-shirt for Christmas so I was super excited to see you post this video
Your CAN wires should be twisted pairs, wrapped in shielding. Each device connected should have a 120ohm termination resistor.
Each device or just the end of line? I had the same thought about whether or not he had the resistor installed.
Yep should be twisted pair throughout, with no more than 30cm from each component to the main trunk. There should only be two termination resistors in the network, ideally at the end components. More than 2 in a single network can cause issues.
Twisted pairs aren't necessary if the cable shielding's properly managed (lookup Belden's DeviceNet, which is CAN, cabling). And the 120 ohms should only be present at each end of the trunk, in order to get the 60ohms lines impedance required.
Thanks for the info. 🙂
@@benfowler2127 Just the end of the line, maybe? If each device has one, then it's just multiple 120 Ohm resistors in parallel. Enough of those could effectively short out the CAN-H and CAN-L lines.
I can't believe those K1 attack roadster kits are still going strong 20+ years later
And im double impressed that they still look modern and fit in with current year cars too.
Sometimes flashing the aftermarket firmware solves the problems with CANBUS driver within the software. Otherwise, did you check the continuity between the plugs, and are they already twisted pairs within the cables? (It's VERY important that SPI and CANBUS cables are twisted due to the frequency they operate at - 20 MHz or faster depending on automotive electronics involved, which also MUST agree to operate at same frequency in CANBUS so you don't get data collisions.)
EDITED: People are correct about the terminator resistors. Forgot about that...
In addition to having the correct terminating resistors you need to know what communication protocol you are using. RS 485, j1939, rs232 etc. That will determine the structure of the communication network. You would also need to program buad rate and addresses into the system.
I agree with your decision. One have to prioritize projects based on importance and working on the wheelchair company would obviously be a higher priority than the hummve which is more of a personal project.
Glad to get an update on the project! Life gets crazy sometimes and like you said there just isn't enough time in a day lol
My prediction is 120 ohm(ish) resistors on the ends of the daisy chain of canbus modules
Thank you for all the knowledge from this comment section,you guys are awesome
My bet is on baud rate mismatch along with lack of a terminating resistor at the end of the trunk line?
Hopefully it's simple! I did attempt to verify those things. But I'm no expert.
The termination resistor was my first thought too. This looks like a problem I had faced, and adding a termination resistor fixed it.
Normally, the CAN protocol has a feature called CSMA/CD (Carrier Sense Multiple Access/Collision Detection) and it is this feature that handles the timing and arbitration of information exchange between the master and the slaves.
About the baud rate, as long as Jerry uses a simple CAN configuration (like CAN-FD) I guess the baud rates are standardized across manufacturers at 250Kb/s or 500Kb/s or 1Mb/s. So, as long as Jerry selects one uniform setting across all devices, he *should* be able to get it up and running. Now if the clock settings are messed up in firmware (or worse, electrically) then there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Can someone correct me if I've messed up?
Edit:- Typos, indentation and cleared up a point I made earlier.
It seems like he can can bus messages. As far as I know mismatched baudrate downs the can bus network. My bet is the configuration of the devices. They might not know the message id's and decodes
Lol😂. I always laugh when I see the original military dust coming out.
Any reason you didn’t power wash the vehicle prior to starting?
When I first got started in the wind turbine industry, we used CAN for communication between PLC modules and man was it a pain in the ass to troubleshoot and work with. One single resistor in a CAN cable somewhere breaking lose from the solder would completely nuke the coms for the entire PLC network. Current turbines I work on use Profinet which is Parallel instead of Serial like CAN and it's been a godsend.
Does it scratch at a level 6 with deeper grooves at a level 7?
It does some wires can be thin and scratches or scrips duego high voltage
On top of everything else, just make sure that your shield wire is connected only in one place, at the beginning of a trunk to the ground. If it is connected in multiple places, you'll have hard-to-diagnose ground loop problems. This is related not only to CAN, but for other types of signals, where shielding is required.
It looks like to me that we need to tear into that wiring at a level 5 or 6, with deeper testing at a level 7 or 8. That will do it! 👌😁
Very nice, family first is key especially with a little one, glad to see some progress on the hummer ev.
There is no need to explain. Just do what is important to you.
I have ran into a problem with those heat shrink solder connections adding a small amount of resistance when dealing with sensitive electronics. When I had wired up my gps steering for my tractor I used 2 of those on small wire connections. I ran into issues for over a year before I found out those were the issue.
My tractor would drive in circles out in the middle of the field being very weird. Changed to just good solid crimp connections with adhesive heat shrink and all issues were resolved. Going on 2 years of perfect operation.
Amazing project still
Finally... Thanks for letting the fans know that this project is still live..
When I install two wire spi or can I like to pigtail the taps with shielded cable right to the device. I keep the shield as close as possible to the connection. Although in some instances using cat5e twisted pair can work well too. As long as you are using the appropriate termination resistor at the end of the chain.
as already stated, check the resistances of the CAN lines, you can do so by measuring the resistance between the CAN+ and CAN- lines (it should be 60ohm), if the resistance is correct, you need to check for wiring damage (and possibile contact with ground), if this also doesn't work, you may need to re-route the can wiring since there could be interference from the current flowing in other wires (which in an electric vehicle is substantial).
these solutions are listend in order of likelihood, i also assume that all computing units are using the same protocol (no mix and match between CAN high and CAN low)
Yaas! Whisper is back! Also, Zach, you should have no guilt about a man wanting to spend time with his family! Family first!
Hi Jerry, (as English isn't my natural language I hope I am able to make myself understood here). The best way to make sure you have a working CAN-BUS is to avoid ALL branches. Route the CAN-BUS from node to node, ONLY having terminating resistors (120 ohm) in both ends. Also, you can in most cases and especially in this case where you have so few nodes choose a lower bit-rate, like 250 and even 125 kbps, to make the communication more stable. The electric design of the CAN-BUS makes it very noise resistant, why shielding most often isn't that important.
I was looking forward to this update! FINALLY! :)
Hi Jerry. You’ve probably sorted it by now, but on the Orion 2 software there is a third party CAN communication list for specific charger units such as ELCON chargers etc. not sure what unit you are using, but it might be listed there already. Lots of these units use specific CAN PID codes that command and request specific data. It is possible to set up the ORION 2 to send and receive custom CAN data that you can edit yourself, but you would have to know what specific CAN address and data the charger is expecting to receive. also, make sure you have the “charge Enable” button set on the Orion charge settings, and that your Charge Current Limit isn’t set too low. If these are set incorrectly the ORION system wont allow your charge relay to close…if you've wired it according to their wiring manual. good luck!!! looking forward to seeing you sort it out. cheers
When I saw the hummer I squealed. Thanks for keeping us up to date
At last, we got something... Always thought I missed the video, looking forward to the success of our EV🕯️🤗
I can literally sit here and listen to him to talk forever he's got one of those voices that makes you wanna listen
I am so glad you towed it with the Rivian! You rock.
Nice to see all these knowledgeable people offering their two cents.
Your other projects are very important too, we'll take what we can when we can. You've got this.
Saw the lightning video. Very impressive. For me, the fact that you are doing this soup to nuts is WAY more impressive.
As long as you're using that vinyl tubing, you can pinch it off beyond where you need to cut it, to avoid draining the system and then having to refill it and completely purge it of air.
It's your butt connectors. Either solder them directly or use poke and wrap method. I install telematics and tracking system in vehicles that require tapping into the can bus. Ideally you would use y slitters with can plugs where the only time a wire terminates is inside the plugs. Or use the poke and wrap method to add connections
BRAVO - can't wait to see the Hummer 100%
Sorry I'm a big follower but just a small thought when it won't charge it might be that the can bus system might not be recognise the charge cause a Tesla has a flap sensor and won't charge due to seeing the flap just a thought great project by the way love from Sydney Australia cheers.
You need some CAN bus analysis tool. At work we use Vector CANalyzer, which is pretty expensive, but there are cheaper ones out there, even freeware
It's awesome even you are not being able to fix it.
Waiting for the solar penals to be added.
Good luck man I hope you get it figured out soon!
Life tends to alter plans. Especially once children come along so no one blames you. We just want to see it completed. Glad your back at it.
Does anybody else think that a Humvee that doesn't make sounds when under power is somewhat CREEPY? It just ain't right!! LOL!! Well done so far, and please keep us updated!!
You should not say you are not smart enough. You are, you just might not have the skillset or experience at the moment to figure out / solve problems! I hope to see this project 100% finished sometime soon! I love it.
Typically speaking OEM recommends not using solder connections(which you didn't get hot enough to flow) and using a bare butt connector and shrink tubing. Keeps the resistance within specs. And do you have termination resistors for the trunk on either end?
Are all the can devices programmed for the same ISO data?
Hey man remember not everything is gonna be a homerun but it was an excellent series. Very educational and entertaining. I know you will make it great eventually!!!
This is the most interesting project in the entire internet that we can see and explore together with the creator.
Finally, some of us have been waiting for this video for some time. Humvee EV is back, from 🇿🇦🤙
Been hanging out for an update on the Hummer, thanks for posting, such an interesting project!
I like the solar panel part and can’t wait to see how it goes, well done so far