Supro was bought in 2020 by Bond Audio, who own D'Angelico guitars and Pigtronix. I think we're looking at a similar situation to many other products in the music world where (and this is a small company compared to others) legacy names are being bought by random investment companies who use an established name to sell products that they've cheaped out on compared to before and the customer isn't easily able to determine this without doing some research. It's sad the world we live in right now.
As far as i know,these Supro amps are made by BAD(Boutique Amp Distribution),they also make Morgan amps.But it's just "boutique" on the outside,inside these amps,it's more like a Chinese made tube amp,nothing boutique here.Components are mostly cheap parts,only Chinese made tubes inside. Most companies in this business, are only looking for lesser costs on their products and raise their prices.
@@jochemjonker3362 I can find someone in 2017 on a forum saying they were handmade in Port Jefferson, NY, but in 2020 they were bought by Bond Audio. In 2023 the Supro USA RUclips channel put out videos talking about their handmade amplifiers, but it only shows the manufacture of the cabinets, not the boards. And regardless of the boards origins, if they were both manufactured and assembled somewhere else, or assembled and soldered by hand, there is a choice of parts made in both cases.
It’s nice to get a look inside and a chance to inform your good customer about possible upgrades that can be implemented after the warranty expires. Great video. 👍
And compare that to my '66 Supro Thunderbolt. Simple circuit, inexpensive components, and not too many at that. Still putting out monster tone after almost 60 years.
I really appreciate your video. I have a Supro 1622RT that I've had for years. Even though I got it for a "steal" (jokes on me), I wish I had been warned about Supro amps before I made the purchase. It crackles at start up for about 15 minutes and if I turn the reverb up past noon it squeals because it is too close to the speaker. If I pull the reverb tank out of the amp I can crank it. I haven't come across any repair videos on any of their amps so even just seeing you looking at the issues really helps me understand all the issues I'll be facing. I don't have the heart to sell the problems onto someone else. Many thanks!
I have 5w reverb supro head and cab stack (was on sale for $800) and one thing it does well is my wife thinks it looks good. So when it blows up i still have a good looking thing to look like i know how to play. They sound quite good especially not too many 5 watts out there. If it wasn't so good looking my wife wouldn't allow it to be in the living room. Actually waiting for it to blow so i can justify the next amp.
For the un-initiated, where Lyle is coming from on his stance of the amp and brand comes down to value. The components of the Supro brand are basic at best. Nichicon makes affordable caps, just as Illinois ( IC ) does. So the brand of cap doesn't necessarily add value. Board mounted sockets are known to be an issue. And then we get into the weird sub circuits of things. The MOV's for the A/C input, the diode in the output tube bias section, and any other secondary function circuits in the amp that make it possible to sell worldwide, all come at a cost. The cost is that many more cheap/affordable components that are prone to fail prematurely. The bean counters are who destroy a product. The people stuffing the amps are likely not invested either. So you have a product that is built to a price point, likely made by individuals who really don't care about the product. Once you breach the $1,000 price point for a 5-watt amp, you better have a good product. This is not a good product, you are getting a modern VHT grade of amp, sold at a premium price because of the name on the front.
Thanks for the video. I was going to buy one of these. I want a low wattage amp with a master volume that I can get dirty at a low volume. What do you suggest?
This is the from the recent line up “made in china” Supros. I’ve got a Thunderbolt (Absara New York assembled era) from 2014 and I believe is very robust and with quality components.
my 1605 R works using the "Mix Out" into another amp but no output to the its speaker. All the plate and cathode voltages are present and tubes all good. speaker and reverb tank ok. Output Xfrmr still soldered in place but i get Ohms from Plate to grn with tube removed. Speaker side seems ok. could the reverb tank circuit be an issue? i dont see a tank xfrmr. and don't have a schematic. Any ideas?
Toward the end of the video, just eye-balling it, the connection to R4 seemed awful starved of solder. I'm nor sure I would want an amp made by that company if that is an example of the assembly quality in general.
You don`t recommend this amp because it is poorly built but only with the info from this video it seems better built than for example a Blues Junior. Would you recommend it over a Blues Junior?
Our singer guitarist left a Marshall JMP on for almost 2 months at our rehearsal space, It was fine when we discovered it was left on. yeah we didn’t practice enough.
I feel like we havent caught up mentally to the new value of the dollar. Im not economist, but... The supro amp costs 800.... We think were buying something worth 800 in pre COVID dollars and that ain't the case. We're really buying a blackstar-tier amp with a classic label stuck on it.
I played one of these at Electric Lady Studios recently. fav amp I used all day... it's not what's on the inside that counts, it's what kind of wiggly air it makes on the outside.
As a serious question: are there people out there who deliberately leave their amps on for extended periods while not using them? Or is it just an accidental occurrence? I feel like I hear about people doing it every so often and wonder what the deal is. Thanks.
Physics, like entropy, Murphy’s law, and every other unpleasant universal constant, is indiscriminate. If someone builds 💩 and you buy 💩 then eventually it’s going to take a 💩.
@@richardnagamitsu1582the late 50's Supro Coronado schematic is out there. That's all JP was using, except with a 12" speaker. It would be the perfect project for an old blown up Fender Hot Rod Deluxe/Blues Deluxe chassis and cab.
The thing I'm not getting watching the video is why it's bad. Other than "the generic jacks and sockets," what's so bad about this? What I took away from this was: 1) a "not bad cap at all" just happened to fail after the amp was left on for a few days (not recommended), 2) they ARE using cheap jacks and sockets but that doesn't appear to have been the point of failure and should be cheap/easy to upgrade (at least the jacks), and 3) otherwise, the PCB is decent and "better quality than Fender and Marshall" with good quality caps throughout like Nichicons. Is it a bad amp, or did something just fail, which can happen to anyone? It's priced at the same price as a Blues Deluxe and is it any worse from a reliability perspective? Not trying to be a jerk or defend bad design but just trying to legitimately understand what was bad other than a cap failure.
I think Lyle is cranky about the failure points being something that is easy and cheap to correct at point of manufacture, but manufacturers like Fender don’t care to change. Lyle won’t recommend those kinds of amps and apparently is busy enough to turn down work on them There are better amps out there but you have to dig, or learn how to find a good used amp, or how to repair a used amp
The cheap jacks with no lock washers are for grounds. And they come loose. Often. I put up a “fix your Supro for $1” video showing how to solve that issue. But owners shouldn’t have to finish building their new amp. The deeper issues here are: 1) this should not have failed but it did, probably due to the very cheap 6V6. I won’t know how gracefully it failed unless/until I change out that cap. Did any traces/pads burn beneath? Any carbon in the PCB in that area? I hope not. But it’s possible and it was a common issue with the previous versions of “Supro” amps (under Zinky ownership). 2) why did R4 get too hot? Is it rated for the current in normal use or was there some other big failure? I’ll know more when/if I can look at the schematic. But: 3) to repair these things properly requires pulling the PCB and that involves taking the amp completely apart, resulting in a high labor cost that can be a huge percentage of the amp’s value (consider depreciation). And ok, one failed cap, one toasty resistor, both visible issues. Pull everything apart and change those out. To test you have to put everything back together. Was there anything else wrong? Is there some other issue causing the visible failures? Then you have to take it apart again. Rinse and repeat. 4) those cheap tube sockets are a big concern. I’ve seen multiple cracked ceramic octal sockets on modern Supros. All these sockets are failure prone and replacing them is a big labor charge. In a nutshell it’s a series of pennies the factory saved that likely will cost the owner hundreds of dollars.
@@honkytonkinson9787how do you correct this failure point? The tube blew and took the component out. How can you stop that from happening in this case when a tube fails? I see the brown resistor issue but not the tube failing taking something with it as happens often in any amp where a tube unexpectedly fails
@@honkytonkinson9787 Sure, I get that! But it actually seemed/looked like a well-designed/built amp except for the generic jacks and sockets, and neither of those two things appear responsible for the failure. It seemed more like a case of "stuff happens" and a random, decent, component just happened to fail in an otherwise inexpensive, mass-produced amp that was well-built except for jacks and sockets. Sample-size of one story (so grain of salt): I took a different modern Supro (Keeley Custom 12) into a well-respected amp tech (who has been mentioned on this channel before as a good tech), and asked him if it was junk and why it had failed on me. He also called out the cheap jacks but otherwise said it was well-built for the price and not to sell it if I was otherise happy with it. Said it had just blown a power tube, likely due to a bad batch of JJ 6V6's that was going around.
@@PsionicAudio I do always find it weird where companies decide to cheap out. Like, not paying significantly extra for something like a Mercury transformer or an Alnico speaker makes sense. Saving $3 on jacks per amp sold for $1,000? That's penny smart, pound foolish. But that type of thing doesn't seem uncommon for a mass-produced amp at a low price point, and this doesn't seem like a particularly egregious example (compared to ye old Blues Junior and the like).
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
"Physics is self-enforcing." Sounds like bumper sticker / t-shirt material to me 😉
"The Universe of Physics doesn't care about your feelings"!
I've already got the "Science doesn't care what you believe" shirt... 😄
I think "The Laws of Physics are self-enforcing" would be better, but it does sound like good T-shirt material.
I’m buying that shirt.
❤️
"Physics is self enforcing..." love it
Supro was bought in 2020 by Bond Audio, who own D'Angelico guitars and Pigtronix. I think we're looking at a similar situation to many other products in the music world where (and this is a small company compared to others) legacy names are being bought by random investment companies who use an established name to sell products that they've cheaped out on compared to before and the customer isn't easily able to determine this without doing some research. It's sad the world we live in right now.
As far as i know,these Supro amps are made by BAD(Boutique Amp Distribution),they also make Morgan amps.But it's just "boutique" on the outside,inside these amps,it's more like a Chinese made tube amp,nothing boutique here.Components are mostly cheap parts,only Chinese made tubes inside. Most companies in this business, are only looking for lesser costs on their products and raise their prices.
@@jochemjonker3362 I can find someone in 2017 on a forum saying they were handmade in Port Jefferson, NY, but in 2020 they were bought by Bond Audio. In 2023 the Supro USA RUclips channel put out videos talking about their handmade amplifiers, but it only shows the manufacture of the cabinets, not the boards. And regardless of the boards origins, if they were both manufactured and assembled somewhere else, or assembled and soldered by hand, there is a choice of parts made in both cases.
Hand made now. Hand them money. And they made more with less
It’s a fucked up world,man.
I have a 25 watt Keeley Supro and it has been great. I have left it on at the end of the night plenty of times and never had an issue.
It’s nice to get a look inside and a chance to inform your good customer about possible upgrades that can be implemented after the warranty expires. Great video. 👍
i love your SCTV "Blowed Up Real Good" reference :-)
And compare that to my '66 Supro Thunderbolt. Simple circuit, inexpensive components, and not too many at that.
Still putting out monster tone after almost 60 years.
I really appreciate your video. I have a Supro 1622RT that I've had for years. Even though I got it for a "steal" (jokes on me), I wish I had been warned about Supro amps before I made the purchase. It crackles at start up for about 15 minutes and if I turn the reverb up past noon it squeals because it is too close to the speaker. If I pull the reverb tank out of the amp I can crank it. I haven't come across any repair videos on any of their amps so even just seeing you looking at the issues really helps me understand all the issues I'll be facing. I don't have the heart to sell the problems onto someone else. Many thanks!
I'm glad I play a Diezel vh4. Never have any problems and it always sounds absolutely perfect.
If you find a schematic, please post...
I reached out to Supro for my 1600 RI with no joy/reply
Thanx so much, Teach, for posting this
I have 5w reverb supro head and cab stack (was on sale for $800) and one thing it does well is my wife thinks it looks good. So when it blows up i still have a good looking thing to look like i know how to play. They sound quite good especially not too many 5 watts out there.
If it wasn't so good looking my wife wouldn't allow it to be in the living room.
Actually waiting for it to blow so i can justify the next amp.
"Physics is self-enforcing." t-shirt mech -- for sure!
The cool thing about science is that even if you don't believe in it, it's still true!🙃
In the words of Yosemite Sam: "It was bloooowed to smithareenees!".
Thanks for the video.
“Tore up from the floor up”, as we would say back in the swamp land 😂
"What happened to your Supro, private?" "Buh-lone up, sir!" (Rest of the group) "BLOWN UP, SIR!"
For the un-initiated, where Lyle is coming from on his stance of the amp and brand comes down to value. The components of the Supro brand are basic at best. Nichicon makes affordable caps, just as Illinois ( IC ) does. So the brand of cap doesn't necessarily add value. Board mounted sockets are known to be an issue. And then we get into the weird sub circuits of things. The MOV's for the A/C input, the diode in the output tube bias section, and any other secondary function circuits in the amp that make it possible to sell worldwide, all come at a cost. The cost is that many more cheap/affordable components that are prone to fail prematurely. The bean counters are who destroy a product. The people stuffing the amps are likely not invested either. So you have a product that is built to a price point, likely made by individuals who really don't care about the product. Once you breach the $1,000 price point for a 5-watt amp, you better have a good product. This is not a good product, you are getting a modern VHT grade of amp, sold at a premium price because of the name on the front.
Thanks for the video. I was going to buy one of these. I want a low wattage amp with a master volume that I can get dirty at a low volume. What do you suggest?
Gracias 4 Tha Vidz. Keep on pickin' Cowkidz
I owned a Supro a few years ago for one day and sent it back- was making all kinds of weird noises. I think I may have dodged a bullet.
This is the from the recent line up “made in china” Supros. I’ve got a Thunderbolt (Absara New York assembled era) from 2014 and I believe is very robust and with quality components.
I've got a NY Thunderbolt as well that's been rocking for several years, zero issues.
Anyone think that Supro will respond?
my 1605 R works using the "Mix Out" into another amp but no output to the its speaker. All the plate and cathode voltages are present and tubes all good. speaker and reverb tank ok. Output Xfrmr still soldered in place but i get Ohms from Plate to grn with tube removed. Speaker side seems ok. could the reverb tank circuit be an issue? i dont see a tank xfrmr. and don't have a schematic. Any ideas?
Toward the end of the video, just eye-balling it, the connection to R4 seemed awful starved of solder. I'm nor sure I would want an amp made by that company if that is an example of the assembly quality in general.
Are there any current production Supro amps you would recommend, or are they all this level of quality?
Is there a HT fuse at all in those amps? (And if there is, if it is T5A or somerthing like that, it of course won't necessarily help much.)
I mean, are you really getting the most out of your tube amp if it doesnt catch on fire? 😂
You don`t recommend this amp because it is poorly built but only with the info from this video it seems better built than for example a Blues Junior. Would you recommend it over a Blues Junior?
Yes over a Blues Junior. But it’s way lower quality than a Vox AC15C1.
Our singer guitarist left a Marshall JMP on for almost 2 months at our rehearsal space,
It was fine when we discovered it was left on.
yeah we didn’t practice enough.
Can you clarify, is it the Supro 1605RJ '64 Reverb that you would warn us against purchasing, or current Supros in general?
Any of them.
I feel like we havent caught up mentally to the new value of the dollar. Im not economist, but...
The supro amp costs 800.... We think were buying something worth 800 in pre COVID dollars and that ain't the case. We're really buying a blackstar-tier amp with a classic label stuck on it.
Marla makes an amp that is much better for just a bit more
It’s like good music. It’s out there, but you have to dig through a lot of scat to find it
I played one of these at Electric Lady Studios recently. fav amp I used all day... it's not what's on the inside that counts, it's what kind of wiggly air it makes on the outside.
Yugos could get you to the grocery store too. Until they couldn’t.
As a serious question: are there people out there who deliberately leave their amps on for extended periods while not using them? Or is it just an accidental occurrence? I feel like I hear about people doing it every so often and wonder what the deal is. Thanks.
This one was unintentional. Ask me how I know..
Physics, like entropy, Murphy’s law, and every other unpleasant universal constant, is indiscriminate. If someone builds 💩 and you buy 💩 then eventually it’s going to take a 💩.
Mahalo Lyle
Is this true for all Supro amps from recent years? I’ve had the Black Majik on my watch list.
Lyle says "yes" to your question; so NO, don't buy one.
Avoid avoid avoid.
@@goodun2974 Thanks! I wish I could that other Page reissue that was really expensive from a few years back.
@@richardnagamitsu1582the late 50's Supro Coronado schematic is out there. That's all JP was using, except with a 12" speaker.
It would be the perfect project for an old blown up Fender Hot Rod Deluxe/Blues Deluxe chassis and cab.
Anyone have experience with the Sundragon amp?
Nice getting a peek inside. ive been wanting this amp for some years now but after i found out its a 1000$ made in china amp, ive lost interest.
😎👍👍
Anyone who's had the pleasure of a motorcycle accident know instinctively that physics is self-enforcing...
The new Supro's sound absolutely amazing, but aren't made the best. So at the end of the day it's still Made in China.... what do you expect...
The thing I'm not getting watching the video is why it's bad. Other than "the generic jacks and sockets," what's so bad about this? What I took away from this was: 1) a "not bad cap at all" just happened to fail after the amp was left on for a few days (not recommended), 2) they ARE using cheap jacks and sockets but that doesn't appear to have been the point of failure and should be cheap/easy to upgrade (at least the jacks), and 3) otherwise, the PCB is decent and "better quality than Fender and Marshall" with good quality caps throughout like Nichicons. Is it a bad amp, or did something just fail, which can happen to anyone? It's priced at the same price as a Blues Deluxe and is it any worse from a reliability perspective? Not trying to be a jerk or defend bad design but just trying to legitimately understand what was bad other than a cap failure.
I think Lyle is cranky about the failure points being something that is easy and cheap to correct at point of manufacture, but manufacturers like Fender don’t care to change. Lyle won’t recommend those kinds of amps and apparently is busy enough to turn down work on them
There are better amps out there but you have to dig, or learn how to find a good used amp, or how to repair a used amp
The cheap jacks with no lock washers are for grounds. And they come loose. Often.
I put up a “fix your Supro for $1” video showing how to solve that issue. But owners shouldn’t have to finish building their new amp.
The deeper issues here are:
1) this should not have failed but it did, probably due to the very cheap 6V6. I won’t know how gracefully it failed unless/until I change out that cap. Did any traces/pads burn beneath? Any carbon in the PCB in that area? I hope not. But it’s possible and it was a common issue with the previous versions of “Supro” amps (under Zinky ownership).
2) why did R4 get too hot? Is it rated for the current in normal use or was there some other big failure? I’ll know more when/if I can look at the schematic. But:
3) to repair these things properly requires pulling the PCB and that involves taking the amp completely apart, resulting in a high labor cost that can be a huge percentage of the amp’s value (consider depreciation). And ok, one failed cap, one toasty resistor, both visible issues. Pull everything apart and change those out. To test you have to put everything back together. Was there anything else wrong? Is there some other issue causing the visible failures? Then you have to take it apart again. Rinse and repeat.
4) those cheap tube sockets are a big concern. I’ve seen multiple cracked ceramic octal sockets on modern Supros. All these sockets are failure prone and replacing them is a big labor charge.
In a nutshell it’s a series of pennies the factory saved that likely will cost the owner hundreds of dollars.
@@honkytonkinson9787how do you correct this failure point? The tube blew and took the component out. How can you stop that from happening in this case when a tube fails? I see the brown resistor issue but not the tube failing taking something with it as happens often in any amp where a tube unexpectedly fails
@@honkytonkinson9787 Sure, I get that! But it actually seemed/looked like a well-designed/built amp except for the generic jacks and sockets, and neither of those two things appear responsible for the failure. It seemed more like a case of "stuff happens" and a random, decent, component just happened to fail in an otherwise inexpensive, mass-produced amp that was well-built except for jacks and sockets. Sample-size of one story (so grain of salt): I took a different modern Supro (Keeley Custom 12) into a well-respected amp tech (who has been mentioned on this channel before as a good tech), and asked him if it was junk and why it had failed on me. He also called out the cheap jacks but otherwise said it was well-built for the price and not to sell it if I was otherise happy with it. Said it had just blown a power tube, likely due to a bad batch of JJ 6V6's that was going around.
@@PsionicAudio I do always find it weird where companies decide to cheap out. Like, not paying significantly extra for something like a Mercury transformer or an Alnico speaker makes sense. Saving $3 on jacks per amp sold for $1,000? That's penny smart, pound foolish. But that type of thing doesn't seem uncommon for a mass-produced amp at a low price point, and this doesn't seem like a particularly egregious example (compared to ye old Blues Junior and the like).
thats puzzling, as Supro has such a long long history of mediocrity!
Won't be buying a Supro anytime soon.
Maybe I'm way out of touch with the mainstream market but that's pretty pathetic quality and service life for a very small amp that retails for $1k.
One hot mess..
Supro is the Hyundai / Kia of the amp world.
Sounds like they have more in common with the Yugo! 😄
@@EddieLeeFunn And yet they are better built than the modern Fender crap.
Sorry but who leaves an amp on for 2 days? Thats insane.