DON’T Buy New Minis-We Have Guild Ball At Home.
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Community Guild Ball Project
www.longshanks...
CoyoteBD
/ tylerprovick
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My name is Dek. I'm a designer, entrepreneur and gamer from the Bay Area. My biggest motivation and aspiration is absolutely building a great community around tabletop wargaming and RPG's. Join me in pushing the culture forward, and having a good ol' time doin' it.
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I so very wish guildball was still being supported. There were so very few players in my area, sadly a few dropped off about a year before guildball lost support. So now there's really no hope to play the game at all locally, which is a shame as I loved this game and my farmers team.
Ah! Yeah, Farmers was towards the end there. I'm sorry it never took off for you! There's a community out there for you! Everyone I know who played a lot of Guild Ball really misses it, and likely will forever XD.
I've started teaching some younger guys how to play as I have a half dozen teams. There's never going to be a GB "scene" but I can relive some really fun moments, at least. GB was one of the best (mostly) hand to hand skirmish systems I've seen.
@Blake Dawson it did have an amazing skirmish system, I did enjoy how each of the team members worked with the next.
I've managed to find a new community in 30k. But if another guildball like game pops up I'll being jumping onto it.
I positively love the idea of having your dead game ready to roll for a fantastic two player experience. I've long held the same idea for mini games in general - as someone who originally came from a small town without much of a mini scene, I feel it's a great idea to keep two forces ready to rock. With certain skirmish-sized games, it's so easy to have a couple of lists worth of models painted up and stored away in case(s) for that day your friend comes by and wants to try out this thing that you love! Lovely exploration of the idea today btw.
I do it with Every game I play. Two forces at least.
Basically my philosophy in regards to my TTWG collection. Keep the TTWG system frozen in a specific Edition, have 2 (or more) factions fully painted at starter size at hand, with some more (painted) models for variation or a short mini-campaign with rising army sizes in the back hand, like for example: WarMachine 15 -> 20 -> 25 points. Keep versatile terrain and board/table, that can be applied to any of your TTWGs. Put the miniatures in a showcase, to make the game already visually appealing. In total: treat the TTWGs like a boardgame (fully completed, including its expansions), nothing more, nothing less.
You’re the man, Gunnar! The hero we need! I’m always working on this, little by little!
RIP Guild Ball....
Curse you SFG
LOL one of us! One of us!
There’s a lot of things that proxy well. Warhammer fantasy models can be used for kings of war (an improved game IMO). Lots of off fantasy minis can be used in things like frostgrave or RPGs. There’s always a use for good minis after a game dies.
I hadn't really been thinking of using old minis as proxies, I think because I usually have a really strong association with my existing models. It's a great idea, though! Definitely like an RPG setting seems like a really fun re-use.
Love these ideas you're sharing. I think this is the hobby aspect that I've been missing. I'mma get to work on making some capsules for games that I loved but that are 'dead'. It feels a little bit like having a bunch of Commander Decks pre-made for casual kitchentop play, or a Cube. Board-gamifying a miniatures wargame makes it a contained experience, where nobody has to worry about meta (even more so with an OOP game) or tracking down models, or list-building... let's just play yall. :)
I have this cool wooden box that I hadn't found a use for yet, which is just about the right size for holding two skirmish-game size lists + everything else needed (dice, tape measures/rulers, 2D/foldable terrain, etc.) I think it might just become the Core Set box for my new 'boardgame'. And maybe I'll make some 'Expansion Packs' in smaller boxes, each one with a sweet list, all the models, and the rules for those models.
Dude. Thank you. This is exactly what I needed.
The new Lamplighter Guild STL now open source, the rules and Cards as well.
Guild ball is still a life, but at a mutch smaler scale (thx to the community projekt)
Haha yeah I joined the discord, and I’ve been studying up on the rules. It’s a great capsule game
And yes, another option for old minis is the newer "mini-agnostic" games. I picked up an old Gutter, even though I never played Butchers, and she's basically a Sith in Star Grave.
The actual reason this doesn't work so well is because of skill ceiling in wargames and, more importantly, minimum required investment.
Wargames are much more complex and complicated ( not meaning better, just meaning vastly more moving and permutable parts ) by design - they are inescapably tied to very time and attention consuming hobby of assembling and painting plastic dolls. And since you are willing to do that, it's often safe to assume that you are also ready to ingest a much more complex game system to go along with it.
Board games are designed so that the customer can buy them from a store opening them and starting to play the full experience comfortably in a couple of hours at the extreme, and at their best having deep mechanics that you can learn to leverage over multiple game sessions.
I can crank out Summoner Wars 2 at a social gathering and have people playing matches against each other, forming tactics and making their own strategic, informed choices, after 20 minutes of presenting the game rules.
It'll take around 15-20 hours of play before someone can start to achieve similar level of understanding in N4 Infinity, and much more until they can match a more experienced wargamer, even if we assume only two factions are being played, fairly similar lists between games, and a smaller pre-determined pool of simple scenarios.
Twilight Imperium might be a very big, deeply strategic and difficult game, but it pales in comparison with the mental load of most wargames if both players are to play to their full ability. It doesn't mean it's more casual or easier, you can just become fluent in it's systems with vastly less work and time.
For this to work, you need to have someone who played the wargame as much as you, and at that point they probably have their own miniatures, which defeats the purpose.
You're right and you're wrong. You're right you can't conserve the Infinity N4 experience. You're wrong, because there are other games you can conserve. I'm thinking more about "beer & pretzels" games like Dreadball, Dungeon Bowl or even Space Hulk (original game, first mission, maybe). Games you can pull out and play just for the fun of it, not for serious competition. If you're playing with a newbie and you're both having fun, it's a win!
you use them in "five leagues from the borderlands" my dude, you won't regret it
That looks like a Frostgrave part to me! One of the reasons I love Infinity is the proxy rules. Some things are unplayable without. I play mainly Yu Jing, my old models are demoted to become proxies for my Dashat, White Company, and Ikari. They will also be used for Stargrave
A friend of mine and I already did this with X-Wing 1.0, but it only works when we're together as I only have Empire figures.
I am, however, in the middle of doing this with Guild Ball. I have Fishermen, Brewers, Farmers, Navigators, Ratcatchers, and half the Engineers, so providing a GB experience to someone who didn't originally invest is easy. Same with Infinity, to be honest, but GB is much easier to box up.
Guild Ball kicks ass.
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A lot of my MK Hordes are being used for Rangers of Shadowdeep - Tharn are great minis for Gnolls, which have historically IMO sucked and felt like a dollar store version of Hobgoblins and Orcs. Reality's Edge, Zone Raiders, Gangs of Undercity, Stargrave are all putting some life back in my painted sci-fi/cyberpunk minis that I don't use because a game has died or simple if I stopped playing a faction ... or have a second faction of minis due to a two player starter set like Operation: Ice Storm, Cold Front, Red Veil... etc.
Good video topic, keep it up, Bavo Zulu
Thanks Olen! Yeah, I'm actually pretty interested in playing an agnostic game like Star Grave, and having that experience of building a crew for it! It sounds like you've played a lot of games! Man it's getting me fired up to want to try more games!
Fantastic topic, and as one who plays many game systems alive and dead, near and dear to me. I am constantly looking for ways to store and transport multiple miniature gaming systems.
For example, the Batman Miniature Game uses a lot of buildings and terrain. Knight Models makes flat pack buildings which work great for the game and I collected 2 sets from an older edition that now fit an entire city blocks worth of terrain in a bow slightly smaller than a briefcase. I can keep that in the back of my car with a rolled up neoprene mat and play BMG anytime I want!
Those Fishermen looks great. Love the game.
Hi, happy you’re back, hope you had nice holiday :)
So on point of dead games: there are three interesting point of view, at least in Poland.
1) Warhammer FB. We have Oldhammer community in Poland. Or should I rather say, we have two Oldhammer Communities in Poland. one is more 6 ed forward concentrated and they from time to time make tournaments in 6/7 edition. I think some of them play t9a and just out of nostalgia came back to good old times. the other group is 5ed and previous editions. The organize one/twice a year event called "Oldhammer weekend" and play old GW Games with WFB campaign. and it’s not only WFB but all WFB games like space hulk 1 ed or warmaster. this is full fun, full paint, almost full original GW models event. they do not change rules or anything like this. they just relive their favorite game. I think there is also visible taste for games, like not very complicated systems like frostgrave etc.
2) second group is Blood Bowl gamers. and I mean pre-resurrected Blood Bowl. It is very interesting because when BB died, people still played, there were still leagues, unofficial rules corrections (but not dastic changes) and team. But i dont think it was so internationally connected as WFB was. And when BB was re-released they just started playing supported version. I believe that interesting here is that focus of group was on well-designed game. not world, not that much of hobby but great game. there was no "original model" clause, there was a lot third party models.
3) third interesting case is the 9th age. this case may be similar to the 2nd and there should be sociological study made but my opinion is that it is different than previous two because this survival was community focused. not on rules or world but on tournament-based community with their forums, leagues and events (ETC). They started editing/rewriting/redesigning game but the group structures stayed the same. and I think that when The Old World will drop and if it will be at least slight similar to old WFB than they will go back to it. They will start doing leagues, ETC etc. and T9A will be irrelevant. because the structures will come back to supported games and all the players will want to stay in those structures.
So from my observations there are three focuses on playing dead games: reliving old memories, rulset and the social structures. and of course in echa group there are mixed motvations. but i think those are main factors
There is also other factor: they all are GW and long established games. So it is hard to reasonably expand this view on smaller/younger games. But I think it is quite interesting.
From what I have been able to tell, the Polish community for Warzone is hardcore. That game hasn't been actively supported by the IP holder since the early 2000s, but people are still playing it regularly.
@@mattberkowitz5559 That is also very true, i just dont have much expeariance with it
Thanks as always Tomasz!
Wow so you guys have a few thriving gaming communities around older games! That's pretty awesome. When I read what you wrote, I thought that I might not relate to the Reliving Memories, but I think I actually do relate to it. That feeling ends up driving a lot of my content on the channel. I miss playing X-Wing and Guild Ball with my friends.
Reading the replies, it kinda feels like Poland is an AWESOME place for wargaming!
I've had similar ideas of doing a full gaming set for dead minis game, namely Batman the Miniatures Game 2nd Ed. It has a unique programming gameplay and initiative system which were removed/changed in 3rd Ed. But to me and other folks in my community, we'd rather play other games (as we all own multiple miniwargame systems) that is currently being routinely played than to relearn a system for most likely a one-off game. Don't let my comment dissuade you though! I'm pretty keen on how'd you do this project and see the end result. Good luck!
Hey Carolous! Thanks for sharing your experience! Yeah, I feel like there are games I can always fall back on. Like as much as I don’t like it, 40k is always there
Great point!
I like to have a main-focus game or two (currently infinity and malifaux) and use smaller games as a bit of both a break from painting those larger games, and as an opportunity to build a small force that I can use at a later date. My starwars legion, stargrave, gamma wolves, etc are just single-faction focused collections that I only work on when I feel like it and I don’t let them stress me out.
That’s a lot of words to say that it’s nice to venture into these other niche games, even if they’re “dead”, just have a single army or group up your sleeve for the occasion that someone else wants to play. 😁
i love the idea of the game capsule. I'd been mulling over a similar thought experiment recently: what would I put in a hypothetical starter box for a mini agnostic game like OPR if I were making it for someone brand new to the hobby? How to squeeze in the tools, minis, terrain, rules, etc in a cost effective way
Yeah, I mean for a mini agnostic game like that, you can really curate your experience. Everything about the board and presentation could be really well designed and curated to tell a story. I think because an agnostic game doesn't necessarily have like the full first-party lore and universe to buy into, that burden gets passed on to your capsule.
I like the idea of a 2 player box for dead games! A degree of kitbashing/printing for out of print games might be a good way to make something mechanically complete and pretty, even if some minis are no longer available
O0o0o0o0o0o that sounds like a really fun creative project! I have some ideas for Infinity minis for sure. I feel like those can be pretty sci-fi agnostic.
Dark Age has one of the more hard core groups taht appreciate a dead game.
Thanks Joel! Wow I had no clue. I have always been interested in the Dark Age models, and I knew a few people who collected, but I've never seen a game played!
Deck! I need advice. I'm reorganizing all of my warmachine/ hordes models (about 1000 of them) and they constantly break while moving them (i don't pin them). It's convinced me, along with your video about their new edition, to stop being a privateer press fan boy. How do I freeze my warmahordes 3.5 experience what with their stupid app you have to pay for all the cards on?
Also.... I'm going to go full time Corvus Belli fan boy instead. Already have about 300 models!
Very good idea. Its the same with Wrath of Kings and Dark Age amazing game that disappeared.
Do you have a link where i can find more info on guild ball 4.5
This is a cool idea. I do like the idea of making sure games remain in a playable state that won't decay over time. For me, this comes down to having all of their components in one box so they don't become scattered and loss. Guildball was almost my first game for this, as I created foamcore dividers in the Kickoff box to carry all my stuff. The only thing that's really missing is my laser line, which I'm not buying one for each game, I bought some widgets that don't fit in the box and I have the Season 4 card pack but don't want to have to fit cards for teams I don't play. Still, it's a start and something I'm trying to do for all my games.
At the same time, I want to make a generic box of tools that I bring for every game. This would be a variety of measuring devices, laser pointer, fresh dry-erase markers and a cleaning tool, plus a set of generic "tokens". I have yellow, orange, red and green plastic tokens that were sold by DP9 for Heavy Gear. They make perfect ad-hoc tokens.
Do you think the drop off of Warmachine Mk3 had a knock on effect to kill Guildball?
Thanks Legionaires! Not sure those 2 are related, as GB was made by SFG?
I think this is where agnostic games come in
Thats the WAy to go!
Its not perfect but my group still plays CMON's Dark Age every few months.
What do you now then, as it's thawing up and being supported again?
I try to limit my game/mini buying to things I could use in more than one game for this very reason. I try not to get hyped on stuff I can't use in D&D, but the problem is one could also tailor their D&D campaign to the models they want.
bWHAHAHHAHAHAAahhahahahhah
muwahah-haha! hahaha!
seen your videos before. But what you said in this in made me subscribe instantly!!!!!
I’m gonna set up a warmachine mk2 25 pt two faction setup now.
Been itching for a reason to finish some models but with the prospect of locking them together time just makes sense.
Plus I’ll have a setup to play against my sons.
I won’t care what faction is picked.
But seriously it’s gotta be mk2.
LOL bruhhhhhhh chilllllll 😂😂 but yeah man! My hobby my choice!
Also ty 😂