Well no, you have literally just imposed that on him. He made it quite clear his religious beliefs vere more towards deism, and so accusing him of saying that without any evidence is pretty illogical and pathetic. You are not a logical rational sceptic; you made an assumption despite suggestion to the alternative based on your own biases and stated them as fact. You are the annoying kind of atheist, one who thinks they know everything about someones beliefs and is unwilling to listen to the basic information they give which contradicts your pre-determined view of them.
I think you're making an assumption that may not be true, since we don't actually know what he's talking to atheists about. But I think he's probably replying to the more out there comments from atheists and those people are probably just more likely to be jerks in general.
Well it's almost inevitable to start getting rude when you've been having to refute the same old, tired, 100+ times exposed fallacious arguments to people who don't actually care what's real.
Exactly. I try very hard to keep a smile on my face, but that gets harder and harder to do when their views are shoved down your throat at least once a day. And, of course, they think it's perfectly okay to do that because they're "spreading the word of god". I mean, who doesn't want to hear THAT, right?
You know...if it bothers you to respond, you can always choose not to respond. You are not obligated to discuss with people, so if you are so annoyed with repeating shit, just shut the fuck up. Because you are not telling it repeatedly to the same person. They dont friggin know, you discussed that milion times already. And its also not their fault you are so insufferable smartass, that you simply had to discuss it million times already, even tho it annoys you.
@@skadi6750 Oh please, I'm no chihuahua yapping at every idiotic christian comment i see or hear, nor was I explicitly talking about myself, nor was I saying to then immediately start getting rude to every "new" christian you talk to. Also, just shutting up doesn't even offer an opportunity for correction, especially if they genuinely don't know what they're saying is fallacious. And that's of course only assuming that they are "new" and it hasn't been explained to them [many times] before.
Why do you have to refute anything? Can't you just live your life and let them live theirs? Or can you not handle the extreme emotional taxation of conversing with someone with different views? Might be a "you" problem here my friend. Maybe try to find a thicker skin or a spine and this won't be so uncomfortable. Btw, if you are continually refuting and the argument remains, maybe your refutation is only convincing to you. Maybe try to be less of a mental bigot and think that just because you think you figured something out, you have figured it out for the rest of us. If I see you as amoral inconsistent ideological trash, as one who rages at people he also thinks are stupid and deceived (explain that Atheist moral code one of you) I likely won't consider your "refutation." Sadly, I find your opinion as valuable as the character that produced it.
@@JoshHerbel This isn't about someone simply having a difference of opinion. It's about demonstrably false and fallacious information being spread as if it were true, regardless of what the truth is actually proven to be, and being forced upon every aspect of everyone's life. Almost every theist caller on these shows have been guilty of everything you're accusing me/atheists of, and maybe you'd realize that if you actually listened to the videos instead of wasting your time trolling the comments.
Love that there’s a term for it, the “angry atheist phase”. Maybe a reason for the angry phase is that often times atheism is so hard won, and they’ve had huge inner battles (sometimes outer battles too!) to get there and it can be frustrating to deal with people who are still in the thick of it. Could also be partly stemming from frustration towards the self, too. “Why didn’t I realize this sooner? And if I did, so can you!” Sort of thing. I don’t mean to speak for anyone, I’m just pondering the possibly complex reasons for this phase ✌️😁
I've never ever been a theist. I am not in the "angry atheist" phase but the "frustrated atheist" phase. I did not use to be in that phase for half a lifetime, until I became more closely aware of other societies (like the conservative part of the USA, or the Arab world almost entirely, or my own country's bible belt) that made me feel mostly ashamed for the stupid ideas that so many fellow humans can be made to believe. Anger and frustration may be hard to distinguish though, and perhaps overlap with regard to how it shows, I agree.
@@macysondheim What do you think Atheism stands for? It is simply the state of not being convinced that there is sufficient evidence to warrant a belief in god. The point is that there is a lack of any evidence, and in that case one defaults to disbelief.
I'm not even sure they feel that way, I worry that they want to but don't and that's why they're so defensive. I've had people tell me they believe because they want it to be true which freaks me out D:
I used to be a believer. Pagan to be more exact, cuz I dont want the antichristian train to slam me onto the floor. I was very...private about it, but whenever I found someone, who actually wanted to talk, I always wanted it to be known, that I recognised, that feelings are something very different from knowledge. Thats exactly why I always said "believe" or "feel" instead of "know"....consider that. You dont have to be an idiot to believe. Being an engineer might not make me a genius, but it ensures, that I am not bottom of the foodchain either. Yeah, maybe on average atheists are more educated, no denial there, but averages are not an ensurance, that you or me are smart people:-D To be a believer with scientifical knowledge, you just have to be a person, whos primary driving and decisioning function is not knowledge, but emotion or instinct. Does not mean, you dont recognize, where the point of "I cannot prove this" or "This is where science steps in" is. Does not mean, you dont realize the logic. Means your mental state needs something else. Once I discussed this with an atheist friend. We realised, that where he drives his life around something having 99,99% possibility of happening certain way, I just concentrated on the 0,01% of exceptions and chances. But its not like I didnt know "the statistics". So...consider that:-D
@@bethsleepien9817 Leviticus 25:44 KING JAMES VERSION Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. Leviticus 25:44 NLT However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. ^^^^^The jewish god is telling jews where to buy slaves from. He tells them to buy slaves from non jews from near them, from nearby villages. A jew can also buy children from non-jews and keep them as slaves. You can also buy slaves from non-jew families that live among you. You own those humans. They are your property. You can pass them on as inheritance. You own them forever. But, do not treat your fellow jews this way.
@@bethsleepien9817 Ok, looks like it depends on which video I post to. 1 post went through and the other did not while on another video, both were blocked.
I guess some Atheists can be viewed like that, but their are Christians that called me obnoxious and said I was being downgrading, or trying to downplay their beliefs, but that was actually far from the case. When I try to explain that...they don't wanna continue the convo.
@@MrKit9 The "Good Book" demands we don't eat prawns, multiple times too, but nobody seems to mind breaking that "Divine instruction". No, homosexuals, that the Good Book barely mentions, that they do obey.
One comedian shared how each year his dad gave him a birthday gift of a buck for every year since his birth. When his sister annouced she was "born again" she received one dollar on her birthday.
I was a christian for 45 years. Fundamentalist education for 12 years. Worked as a Church Musician for 20 more years, I began to question and study and educate myself and became an Atheist 20 years ago. When you have a religious group or person who will not question the dogma or origins or their faith then they like operating in the dark. As long as it's dark they can claim that anything exists there. They can operate like fools if they wish but don't use your faith to constrict MY life. If someone cuts their hand off yet claims that the hand is really there, do you put up with such nonsense or might you mock them? You will never find a greater collection, generally speaking,of liars, sub-intellectuals, hypocrites and angry Christers than in a religious sect. I speak from experience. You make your own decisions.
@Barthelemy you for proving that christians are mentally ill. I went to a Private religious school for 11 years. Daily formal study chapel, youth group, mission studies and on and on. I was a church musician off and on for 20 years. Like so many christians you lie with ease and comfort. Disgusting!
I'm actually writing a story where an abused woman was killed by her husband and she had to be married to the guy in heaven too which is super fucked up.
Why are y'all miserable? god is the existence of Love. Everyone believes Love exists. But This is A page devoted to.. complaining about something...you see as irrelevant. So irrelevant...you constantly talk about it... Awesome.
I hate it. It sucks. Do not point out my bias. But it does do me good sometimes. It broadens my knowledge of myself. But I do not like it. And I don't think theists like it either.
@@maggiefoster6295 You're right: nobody really likes having their biases pointed out---theists or atheists. Thanks for the honesty of admitting you are biased, because most atheists seem to take a special pride in pretending that they don't have biases.
@Michael And so you also prove the caller's point: many atheists feel the need to launch insulting, personal attacks, rather than sticking to attacking an argument. Like I once heard, "If someone can't deal with your argument, then they will deal with you."
Honestly, isn't that a deflection? What if the comments did prove the caller's point? Is that really so hard to concede? It's really hard to get around that now, after Jen and Vi La basically admitted that the caller is right. It's the elephant in the room that atheists in these forums refuse to admit. I am truly fascinated to see how atheists deny this, when it is beyond obvious, that is, how quickly, they insult, deny, and attack the theist rather than the argument.
@@macysondheim This was three years ago my friend, you gotta find something better to do than to try and correct a years old random comment. At this point they were still going by female and non-specific pronouns anyway.
I had a group of friends as a teenager, long long time ago , one was a Christian , they all came around to my house , as we were poor , my parents house wasn't very nice , he was the only friend who made comments and judged me, on my upbringing , my other friends liked me for me, that has always stuck with me , and rightly or wrongly I have never had time for religious people and avoid them at all costs.
@@blucatt1k Not necessarily. He'd be deflecting if the statement applied to him/her. However they are just pointing out that because some atheists are like this, doesn't mean all are, just like not all theists are this way, but there are countless examples of that too
One thing they should of touched on is reciprocal condescension. There are many atheist that turn condescending in response to theists saying “god created the universe” or “evolution has been proven wrong”. The thing theists say often don’t compare to atheists. Saying you know the creator of the universe personally is another level of arrogance in my mind.
So the Talk Heathen hosts are wrong? They admitted the caller was correct. Vi La used the word "insufferable" to describe the atheists in these RUclips forums. She is right.
@@wordwarrior2350 You said you don't use RUclips to say what you think yet you reply and write long posts saying what you think? Do you see how self refuting that is?
Rude? I'm happier than a clam that I live in a time when I can reject your god assertions without being killed for that rejection by people whose feelings are hurt by my rejection of their god assertion. I really think the people that lost the power to force me to believe in their god are the ones that are angry about that loss of power.
If someone tells me I am going to roast in hell for being a gay atheist I will get angry. I used to be angry and shred theists in comments, but got bored. Also not angry anymore. I am trying to experience the reality around me. These videos helped me so much once I decided to deconstruct...thank you.
I’ve been an Atheist my entire life, never went to Church or even read one page of any religious text. I grew up in the South and I am 51 years old now. Never even came close to believing and my family growing up didn’t either. So my experience was different. The rise of social media had changed my outlook some. First; I remember connecting with someone I had known years prior who was a creationist and didn’t believe in Evolution. It was my first time interacting with not just someone who thought that, but I had never even heard of Creationist before. I just remember being perplexed by the notion he was presenting and wondering what happened to him. The second thing that happened was I was suddenly exposed to fellow Atheists for the first time. I had never knowingly had a conversation with a fellow Atheist before. I was able to listen and watch Atheist content and it allowed me to further solidify things I had only offhandedly considered before but never bothered to have structured arguments for. The third thing is that people I was reconnecting with and I had cared about and at least thought I knew; were suddenly posting things that were explicitly offensive to Atheists in a general sense and I saw a side of them I had never been exposed to before. My wife one said she didn’t like arguing with me because I always thought I was right. I responded to her; Honey, if I didn’t think I was right, why would I be arguing with you in the first place? Of course I think I’m right. On the meme thing. I see loads of them. I even save some that I think are funny. I might share one with a fellow Atheist because I think they will appreciate it. What I don’t do is try to alienate my entire friends group (or a significant portion of) by being explicitly offensive. So I tend not to publicly share such stuff. I wish believers were as curious. I also don’t go to Christian facebook groups trying to pick fights either. Now everyone has bad moments where they might not be acting their best and get snarky. And sometimes people just take something you said the wrong way. Maybe you worded it in a way that was clumsy or something and could easily be taken the wrong way, or maybe people were just looking to see what they wanted to see in your comment to start an argument.
Theist: god brought the hurricane to punish the gays. Me: that's not true. Theist: you're so condescending. Me: OK. And that's how most of my interaction with theists go.
@@dalemsilas8425 I don't. That's the point. That's why you evaded my question. You countered an unprovable claim (god did it) with an equally unprovable claim (god did not do it) and adopted the burden of proof, which you cannot fulfill because you can't prove that god did not somehow cause it. So now there are two people with equally unprovable claims shouting at each other, how wrong the other person is. You gained nothing.
To me the commenters on Christian apologists videos are the biggest arrogant trolls, wont address anything ever they just start preaching and say you’re going to hell.
What sticks in Haydens craw is that some people ask him to show evidence for these gods that he randers on about and he just cant handle the fact that he cant, so that make them "rude".
It’s also important to remember that just because somebody behaves in a certain way doesn’t mean you can dismiss what they say. Somebody could very arrogantly explain orbital mechanics to me and I might not like how that person makes me feel but that doesn’t make them wrong about orbital mechanics it just makes them not very friendly
It is not just new atheists, basically all new converts that act haughty and superior. Try talking to a new mormon. They act very superior and better than everyone else.
New atheists are likely to be more angry upon discovering that it's all been a lie, and now the people closest are turning their backs. This would piss anyone off.
Its like when you learned santa wasn't real and everyone knew. Except your not 5, its not cute, and everyone treats you like your dumb for noticing. So ya, some people get a little angry. It would be weirder if they didn't.
@@awesomesause except no one insist that God is real, except theist. There is no one saying live your life how I say to please your imaginary Santa, or you will be tortured for all eternity. No real connection between God and Santa.
@@kenchristiansen2080 well besides the fact they are fictional. The similar thing would also be the naughty and nice list, but unlike santa who only gives coal as a gift, you get eternal damnation by god.
As an atheist and skeptic, I am deemed inferior for not accepting the unfounded claims that theists sloppily present. The superiority they invariably possess is embedded in the message they tell themselves. They are a royal priesthood, a holy nation. They are saved from the damnation I am supposedly facing. They rejoice in the obviously problematic plan of justice being meted out for those of us who can't allow themselves to be put in a state where faith trumps reason.
At some point, in certain situations, when the theist have gone above and beyond in performing mental gymnastics to deny an atheist position of being rational, being justified in their atheism just as equal as they being justified in their theism, that's when I feel I loose emphathy to a varing degree for that individuals ethics and moral compass, thus maybe seeming arrogant. Something I can definitely work on
I *love* that they freely admit there are insufferable atheists (I was one myself in my uni days) and even atheist groups that are obnoxious. Partly because when theists are talking about other theists who have done bad things, it's usually 'misinterpreting the Bible' or 'not a true Christian'. Shows honesty if you ask me.
To this day many comments just make his point. Kneejerk atheist responses that utterly fail to look in a mirror. It was a _great_ subject to raise and a great civil discussion of the topic. On a personal note, this touches on one of the reasons I left christianity. We called ourselves 'a peculiar people', supposedly different from the 'fallen' world. Yet in all my years as an orthodox then evangelical christian, it became clear that 'christians' are just...people. People who believe a thing and call themselves a thing. Good, bad whatever - there's no difference at all. So why should I keep believing in fantasies?
Every person is born an atheist...that is, with NO religious beliefs (or any other kind, for that matter). Whatever flavor of 'faith' (a pisspoor substitute for critical thinking) that one embraces is from parental, authoritarian or peer pressure along with the culture into which one happens to be born. Virtually all ADULT atheists are former believers who managed to rouse their inherent intellectual abilities and seriously investigate what they were conditioned to accept as 'truth' which is why they invariably know far more about the tenets and dogma of the institution from which they managed to escape than those who remain captive to it. The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
@@jee6213 So you think the human body wired and routed its self without intelligence guiding it? Was responsible for all the materials involved and then gave itself consciousness? I wonder how many non believers ever have really thought hard about it.
@@tylercampbell6365 I think about it frequently. The evidence is all around in extant animals. Evolution is like an onion (or was it an ogre? Oh well...). Each new improvement is like a layer upon existing improvements. There are clues as to the eye's evolution in Planaria, jellyfish, snails, nautilus and squids. The digestive system as well can be traced in such critters as Planaria, earthworms, fish and so on. The muscular skeletal system started out as merely pulsating muscle tissue, then endo- and exoskeleton evolved, providing anchoring points for more complex muscle tissues. Bone replaced cartilage as a way to store extra Ca+ in Ca+ poor environment s - ie fresh water. Everything evolves in stages, layers. There is no eraser; evolution cannot go back and try something new. No mulligans. Hence, evolution is layered
When you say that virtually all atheists are former believers, what are you basing that on? I live in the UK and almost everyone I know was never a believer.
@@tylercampbell6365 of course there is more but it isnt supernatural. We are discovering new knowledge all the time about the body... so far NOBODY has ever mentioned "oh look, this organ proves god"
Everyone who disagrees with you can appear haughty, loud and rude. It does not necessarily exist in the transaction, more often it is reverberations in the mind of the offended. Insight is hard.
Nono, that may be true in some circumstances but if you do not recognise that there are insufferably arrogant atheists, who behave that way on the basis that they are atheists, then you are either being purposefully blind to keep some notion of purity about your peers, woefully unexperienced with observing many atheists interacting with theists, or you simply are one of those insufferable atheists.
My sister said she believes in god because "it makes her happy". I explained to her that being a hermit and drinking until you pass out most nights is not generally as being happy.
Atheist here, I get sick and tired of listening to garbage arguments for a God. If you suggest I "look at the trees" or "what happens if you are wrong?" stuff I want to engage in an interesting conversation, but if the level of conversation is very, very basic, I just do not want to converse with you. This happens with just about any field of interest, but there are so many honestly ignorant Theists that think I have done nothing to examine my beliefs.
In response to Hayden, as has already been said by a bunch of people, online forums such as these RUclips comment sections can be pretty harsh, but there's a LOT of elements involved, and it sure as hell isn't one sided. I can list quite a few Theists who frequent these pages who are fantastically rude, condescending, arrogant assholes. Part of the issue is that Theists are coming to these forums telling us we're not only wrong to not believe in God, but that we deserve eternal punishment because of it...and that we're also immoral, evil, as bad as murderers....because we don't believe. I've been called a murderer by a Theist here on youtube just this weekend, because I "reject God" and that makes me exactly the same as Cain and just as guilty of murder. Or something. Theists have told me I should kill myself for not believing. And on the less obnoxious end of the scale, I've had YEC's tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about in relation to the very subject I have a fucking University Degree in (Environmental Biology). So yeah, stuff like that tends to be pretty damn annoying. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but when they go over the line, I'm not going to hold back. And why should I? And I have no reason to think that these experiences are unique to me. So when Hayden comes up against "Angry Atheists", there's the element of them/us being pissed because we spent much of our lives being told things that we now don't believe, and we're getting that same crap thrown in our faces by smug Theists who take actual pleasure in telling us they thing we're going to hell..... .....and we're just done with it. Theism has a position whereby it's considered "rude" to question it or openly oppose it, so I bet it seems aggressive and nasty when we do...because Theists are used to having it their way. Well, not any more.
Completely disagree with the hosts. People might think you're an asshole for pointing out someone's beliefs are nonsense but that mockery may be the thing they need to knock some sense in. If someone genuinely believes in a flat earth or santa or voodoo, you better believe I am going to mock the shit out of their beliefs and I make no apologies for it.
As awesome as it is to hear two witty, passionate, intelligent women talk about a myriad of subjects and take on some of the most complex topics possible... I really think Jen needs to "reign in" her passion and not cut Vi off at every opportunity something pops up or perhaps switch chairs.. not a real criticism more, it's something that comes up on the other Atheist experience shows where they decided there needs to be a CLEAR lead presenter (aka "host") that specifically gives the "guest" (even if they are considering themselves "co-hosts") an intentional segue-way to make a comment or make a point for efficiencies sake. It's difficult to follow two trains of thought even when they tend to agree most of the time and it's a little jarring. You both are fantastic though.. I love listening to you both. Just perhaps not at the same time 😂🤷♂️
I certainly can't and won't speak for all atheists but I do admit that I sometimes speak down to theists when they haven't taken the time to read their holy book and try and tell me to read it or start citing scriptures as if I hadn't read it which I have, several times. Some atheists do get annoyed because we have put in a lot of work and research into theology and philosophy and get annoyed by people who haven't but insist that they know better than you do. Another one of my favorites is when they say, "well you haven't been to my church" or "you haven't read or listened to this obscure or even well known person". Yeah atheists, myself included, can sometimes talk down to theists. It isn't that we necessarily know more than the theist but often we have put in more work than that person and get annoyed by the questions they ask or the things they assume we haven't thought about it considered. Most of the time, we have.
Ok, Vi and Jen! I won't expect a response but excellent conversation! All of you, but I'm glad of how you answered the caller, who was cool, too! I agree there is too much vitriol on line, it can be toxic. I try, as much as possible, to stay nice an respectful, especially if someone else doesn't. If it is sometimes a bit sarcastic, well that's usually only at the worst. Though I have more often, with a bit of simple kindness, gotten an apparent asshole to turn a complete 180 and we can have a good conversation. And, I've always ended my comments, in case it turn out to be my last one ever, with, Love and Peace, though I now do it with emojis! 👏💖✌️🎃
Well, I think it's sometimes true. If a believer doesn't think he's superior than me (in one regard), and I don't think I'm superior to him (in one regard), why are we even bothering to communicate? However, there's often a no-win situation. I find that try as I might, with some religious people, any forceful (i.e. effective) contradiction is interpreted as an insult, that I'm saying they're stupid, etc. I really try to be polite, and rather than being drawn into a fruitless argument, asking them, say, to look at something online that contradicts what they're saying, and then come back if they want. Common responses: "that's so rude!", or a string of put downs. Does anyone have a better approach? I'm not optimistic. Trying to correct ANYTHING online -- even simple, clear things like grammar and spelling -- mortally offends many people.
Yes but he didn't acknowledge that the hosts were part of the "some". It seemed to completely go over his head. These women treated him with plenty of respect and he didn't seem to notice because his mind was set on atheists being combative.
Firstly, THE most arrogant and intellectually condescending people I know or know of are religious. Tends to breed a superiority complex when you think you have the secret to the universe and the rest of time. But yea, I see how it's kinda easy to seem smarter when you hold the correct position (withholding belief) and religious people are programmed to think you are the arrogant enemy. That's not my fault, and it's not my fault that my view is correct. You wouldn't say I'm arrogant for withholding my belief in any number of wild "theories" out there, because it is the correct view to do so. I've had the exact opposite experience to this caller, he must be looking for fights. Even in my life, I've been in a sobriety group for 8 years and not one of them knows I'm an atheist while they preach about how necessary and important god and religion is. If anything, we need to be MORE arrogant. I just do not relate to this call or this caller.
Superiority is a human trait, theist, atheist or any other clasification you care to name. Some may see it more in Atheists, because that group have had religions of all sorts shoved down their throats, forever, and they are now becoming more confrontational because there now seems to be more openness regards the numbers of Atheists having a public voice.
@@aaronstypes4083 I don't have to make excuses for atheists or anyone else mate. Just an opinion that could explain the "in your face" approach by some. Atheists have been threatened with death (at best) for thousands of years, and it is only fairly recently that this outcome has become less of a feature in some societies. Tis little wonder some atheists now are quite forceful in their opinions (Especially concerning religions).
@@aaronstypes4083 Some Christians and Muslims consider it arrogant for someone to calmly say "I don't believe in your God". They consider it disrespectful for someone, anyone, to dare disagree with them or their God (or rather their pastor or imam) but not at all disrespectful for them to disagree with someone else. That's just wrong. They see yelling at someone "You're going to Hell!" (knowing nothing about the recipient) as somehow a kindness, but a response of "No, I am not." as a rude, arrogant, possibly angry atheist refusing the good news, no matter how nicely spoken the rejection may be.
Subscribed. I think Jen and Vi did a marvelous job of responding to this caller. Possibly related subject--until this morning, I had never heard the term, "intellectual bullying," when I saw a teacher use it in a resignation speech shown in the news. As far as I can tell, the term implies that anybody who displays competent knowledge of any subject is potentially liable to be seen as a bully who uses knowledge to silence or suppress the rights of those less informed. In other words, the kid who completes their homework assignment is disadvantaging those who have not. If this is a real thing, I assume that it has been, or will be, used against atheists or other skeptics. Since atheists are destined to win any argument with a theist, no matter how the outcome is described by the losers, does that mean all atheists are automatically bullies? I do not have the people skills that Jen and Vi displayed in this video, nor am I sure I would use them if I did. Any thoughts from other viewers?
I enjoyed the way this caller was handled. His argument was flawed since he was talking to two women that had a respectful conversation with him. I hoping he would acknowledge this but it seemed to completely go over his head. That was a clue about his mindset. I think he wants those angry conversations. When told that You Tube comments and other social media were places he could expect to find a lot of this type of dialogue, he happily said he would be participating, even to the point of giving his handle.
As a former Southern Baptist, when someone who does not share your faith is more verse in the Bible then a practicing Christian, it can come across as arrogant, but if some Christians knew their book and brought their A-game, it would be a fair conversation, and both would feel equally as arrogant. 😂 joking.
I hear so many broken and damaged callers, under the boot of bad ideas or just arrogant about their claims of "I think", ......that I’ve decided to no longer leave “smarty pants” comments. I’ll try to be more charitable. “under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.” ― Robert Anton Wilson "Be Excellent To Each Other" (Bill & Ted) But, Wow, sometimes it's not easy.
I definitely get a sense that formerly religious folk that have turned atheist have a chip on their shoulder for feeling duped for years by their churches. The anger is like a projection of their grudge of feeling misguided. I identify with the idea of perennial wisdom being stored in all religious and spiritual narratives, but I was raised agnostic more or less.
When someone realises they have been lied to all of their life and told they will burn in hell for all eternity for not believing those lies by people they trusted, it can make you a bit angry. It didn’t actually make me angry, I was just so relieved that it was all nonsense and then I felt so stupid for believing such nonsense in the first place. Now I can read the bible and have a good laugh about it all.
I find it both personally irritating and rather telling that this caller doesn't seem to realize that theists really are the source cause of 'loud atheists'. It's as if he can't see theists doing the same exact thing day in and day out.
Interesting that he called with two of the most chill hosts on the show. I think Hitchens (and to a lesser degree Dawkins) are partially to blame as well. I didn't like them as a Christian, but I REALLY didn't like them as a non-believer. I'm only just now after like 10 years able to take them at all seriously.
I am no longer a Christian and am searching also. I’m leaning towards agnostic right now but not leaving atheist completely out. What I have noticed is a lot of hosts and guests on these shows do speak in more scientific “big” words. I find it condescending at times.
I re-read the first five books of the bible (New English version, but Ive read NIV, JKV, and NJKV). If the individual described as "god" sat down with a psychiatrist or psychologist he would be diagnosed as a Dark Triad personality! The Narcissistic, Anti-social and Borderline traits are ALL there and repeated over and over. How could our ancestors be dumb enough to swap Thor for a psychotic stalker with endless and capricious rules?
I tend to agree with caller on some of that atheists I have spoken to. I myself am atheist and they seem to imply I joined some kind of club. That I cuss like a sailor. Drink . Go out and party. I mean not saying thats ok or not just not my kind of lifestyle. Some are as rude as ever.
I do think that what the hosts are saying is definitely true and there are definitely people on both side who are crazy and trying to trigger;however, I do think the hosts are also ignoring(or purposily not mentioning which I can kinda understand why plus it seems like they may have discussed it with the previous caller) that a surpringly large ammount of theists are more likely to simply take something a atheist is saying as negative or aggressive even if it is not meant to be also known as the "radical atheist" thing in the sense when a theist comments something about their religion unreleated it is okay, but when a atheist slightly suggests a idea or something the response is that "look its another radical atheist attacking us" even if it was just a question out of curiousity or even perhaps worry that a friend is overly quickly converting to something they know little about.
Atheist may often seem to be rude but they don't threaten people with "you're gonna burn in hell for eternity!!" Which is worst being rude or threatening people because they do not choose to believe your mythology?
Much love to Jen and Vi La for honestly admitting that the caller has a valid point about atheists on these forums being angry and insulting to theists. Eric, the other host, recently called atheists who use these forums, "Keyboard warriors who are full of vitriol because they can hide under a fake screen name." Kudos and love to Eric as well.
@Gary Thistle Hmmm. I wonder why the Talk Heathen hosts acted like atheist anger is somewhat unique to them. So much so that Vi said that she, like most atheists, went through an "angry phase." Is she imagining things?
Hayden sounds familiar, so I looked up the previous time he called in and rewatched. He had a pretty poor argument for why he became religious, and said "like" all the time (probably due to being nervous). A lot of the criticism on that vid was valid and addressed his argument, but there were also people being disparaging about his habit of saying "like" the whole time, and people making the "no true scotsman" claim.
I have had equal experiences, But the other way. Christians Who have the attitude that they are 'of coarse' better People. I an 'just' a godless heathen and I don't know better. Because they believe they have god on their side they look down their nose at me and condesend.
Who has been going up the pulpit for hundreds of years, spewing hatred, calling ordinary folk sinners and threatening them with hell and torture, then taking their money and buggering their children?
That is one of the main reasons why i dont identify as an atheist. I also doubt God, i also doubt religion, but i am not like THOSE people. I usualy dont get haughty, and even when i do, i try to do it in friendly and opened-minded way. And sure, there are some other reasons... such as my belief in possibility of God, soul, spiritual and esoteric things, and also my doubt in epistemolgic tools. I rather identify as agnostic but that label is also not perfect, i guess that only label that fits me is eclectic (perhaps also heretic and pluralist.)
Taylor swift and I are destined to be together. This belief makes me wanna be a better person. Why is it some foolish, unsubstantiated beliefs, we're allowed to mock and others are supposed to be held sacred? The crap about "we should respect all beliefs" needs to die out. Harmful, dangerous beliefs should be openly mocked. It's how we learn what's socially acceptable.
@@novatare if I said the Taylor Swift thing on a first date or a job interview there'd be a social price to pay. Only the most precious would mistake that for persecution. Well, or the most christian 🤭
If you're religious just picture how hard it would be to talk to a grown ass adult who believes in Santa Claus. It would be pretty difficult to talk to that person without sounding condescending.
There's nothing rude about telling people that you never met, that they were not "real "Christians and they are not real "atheists " and also there's nothing wrong in telling people they know what's gonna happen to them when they die." I understand that it must be difficult to talk to someone, who is not afraid to go to hell.
I think where some of it comes from is not science but logic. Science can’t disprove god - not does it try much of the time. But I’ve clearly pointed out the logical fallacies of theist positions only to have them flatly deny or just move on. I doubt many of us would say “you shouldn’t believe xyz” but I think many of us would agree that it would be beneficial to understand it’s a belief without evidence and often with no logical basis .. and with much logic being able to cast it in the light of being unlikely. So if we’re chatting and you do the equivalent of telling me 1+1=3, I’m going to (nicely) call you out on it. But I do generally agree that people on both sides can take it too far, without a doubt.
This behavior isn't exclusive to religion. Lots of other parts of society have similar behavior. Car owners, sports, video games, art, music, travel, restaurants, rival schools, movie reviews, fashion, etc. all have people who are boisterous.
I understand that some atheist are just not that nice in conversation. But i also understand very well why that is. I cant say i'm always nice and pleasant towards theists mainly because of my experiences. Its the dishonesty that always comes up. And the threat of hell angers me even more, people who believe in a real hell and still worship a monster that allows it to exist are inherently evil and immoral to me. And thats not even talking about the harm it causes in the real world. But also generally atheist are more knowledgable about the topics that are adressed and realize why the beliefs held and "reasons" are really bad. And we have heared it all a thousand times before. The same shit every time over and over again.
What he's failing to understand is that HE triggers the behaviour he's describing by his view of: "I believe in god and you're going to burn in hell".
Well no, you have literally just imposed that on him. He made it quite clear his religious beliefs vere more towards deism, and so accusing him of saying that without any evidence is pretty illogical and pathetic. You are not a logical rational sceptic; you made an assumption despite suggestion to the alternative based on your own biases and stated them as fact. You are the annoying kind of atheist, one who thinks they know everything about someones beliefs and is unwilling to listen to the basic information they give which contradicts your pre-determined view of them.
No hate like "christian" luv?
The proper response is, "Well, you are NOT going to heaven!"
Thanks for saying IT the way it is in REALITY!!!
I think you're making an assumption that may not be true, since we don't actually know what he's talking to atheists about. But I think he's probably replying to the more out there comments from atheists and those people are probably just more likely to be jerks in general.
"I insulted people, they insulted me back, and that proves my point that they're jerks!"
BOOM!!! ^THIS!
@@bulkvanderhuge9006bot…
Well it's almost inevitable to start getting rude when you've been having to refute the same old, tired, 100+ times exposed fallacious arguments to people who don't actually care what's real.
Exactly. I try very hard to keep a smile on my face, but that gets harder and harder to do when their views are shoved down your throat at least once a day. And, of course, they think it's perfectly okay to do that because they're "spreading the word of god". I mean, who doesn't want to hear THAT, right?
You know...if it bothers you to respond, you can always choose not to respond. You are not obligated to discuss with people, so if you are so annoyed with repeating shit, just shut the fuck up. Because you are not telling it repeatedly to the same person. They dont friggin know, you discussed that milion times already. And its also not their fault you are so insufferable smartass, that you simply had to discuss it million times already, even tho it annoys you.
@@skadi6750 Oh please, I'm no chihuahua yapping at every idiotic christian comment i see or hear, nor was I explicitly talking about myself, nor was I saying to then immediately start getting rude to every "new" christian you talk to. Also, just shutting up doesn't even offer an opportunity for correction, especially if they genuinely don't know what they're saying is fallacious. And that's of course only assuming that they are "new" and it hasn't been explained to them [many times] before.
Why do you have to refute anything? Can't you just live your life and let them live theirs? Or can you not handle the extreme emotional taxation of conversing with someone with different views? Might be a "you" problem here my friend. Maybe try to find a thicker skin or a spine and this won't be so uncomfortable. Btw, if you are continually refuting and the argument remains, maybe your refutation is only convincing to you. Maybe try to be less of a mental bigot and think that just because you think you figured something out, you have figured it out for the rest of us. If I see you as amoral inconsistent ideological trash, as one who rages at people he also thinks are stupid and deceived (explain that Atheist moral code one of you) I likely won't consider your "refutation." Sadly, I find your opinion as valuable as the character that produced it.
@@JoshHerbel This isn't about someone simply having a difference of opinion. It's about demonstrably false and fallacious information being spread as if it were true, regardless of what the truth is actually proven to be, and being forced upon every aspect of everyone's life. Almost every theist caller on these shows have been guilty of everything you're accusing me/atheists of, and maybe you'd realize that if you actually listened to the videos instead of wasting your time trolling the comments.
Love that there’s a term for it, the “angry atheist phase”. Maybe a reason for the angry phase is that often times atheism is so hard won, and they’ve had huge inner battles (sometimes outer battles too!) to get there and it can be frustrating to deal with people who are still in the thick of it. Could also be partly stemming from frustration towards the self, too. “Why didn’t I realize this sooner? And if I did, so can you!” Sort of thing. I don’t mean to speak for anyone, I’m just pondering the possibly complex reasons for this phase ✌️😁
I've never ever been a theist. I am not in the "angry atheist" phase but the "frustrated atheist" phase. I did not use to be in that phase for half a lifetime, until I became more closely aware of other societies (like the conservative part of the USA, or the Arab world almost entirely, or my own country's bible belt) that made me feel mostly ashamed for the stupid ideas that so many fellow humans can be made to believe.
Anger and frustration may be hard to distinguish though, and perhaps overlap with regard to how it shows, I agree.
What do you mean “to those people”….
@@landsgevaerSo do you have any proof or evidence for atheism being true?
@@macysondheim What do you think Atheism stands for? It is simply the state of not being convinced that there is sufficient evidence to warrant a belief in god.
The point is that there is a lack of any evidence, and in that case one defaults to disbelief.
@@landsgevaer So is that why Atheism can technically be classified as a disease according to the American Journal of Science & Medicine? 🤔
Question: "How do you know......?"
Answer: "I feel that....."
There's a big problem right there.
I'm not even sure they feel that way, I worry that they want to but don't and that's why they're so defensive. I've had people tell me they believe because they want it to be true which freaks me out D:
I used to be a believer. Pagan to be more exact, cuz I dont want the antichristian train to slam me onto the floor. I was very...private about it, but whenever I found someone, who actually wanted to talk, I always wanted it to be known, that I recognised, that feelings are something very different from knowledge. Thats exactly why I always said "believe" or "feel" instead of "know"....consider that. You dont have to be an idiot to believe. Being an engineer might not make me a genius, but it ensures, that I am not bottom of the foodchain either. Yeah, maybe on average atheists are more educated, no denial there, but averages are not an ensurance, that you or me are smart people:-D To be a believer with scientifical knowledge, you just have to be a person, whos primary driving and decisioning function is not knowledge, but emotion or instinct. Does not mean, you dont recognize, where the point of "I cannot prove this" or "This is where science steps in" is. Does not mean, you dont realize the logic. Means your mental state needs something else. Once I discussed this with an atheist friend. We realised, that where he drives his life around something having 99,99% possibility of happening certain way, I just concentrated on the 0,01% of exceptions and chances. But its not like I didnt know "the statistics". So...consider that:-D
@@bethsleepien9817
I'm going to test the RUclips filters.
@@bethsleepien9817
Leviticus 25:44 KING JAMES VERSION
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Leviticus 25:44 NLT
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.
^^^^^The jewish god is telling jews where to buy slaves from. He tells them to buy slaves from non jews from near them, from nearby villages. A jew can also buy children from non-jews and keep them as slaves. You can also buy slaves from non-jew families that live among you. You own those humans. They are your property. You can pass them on as inheritance. You own them forever. But, do not treat your fellow jews this way.
@@bethsleepien9817 Ok, looks like it depends on which video I post to. 1 post went through and the other did not while on another video, both were blocked.
I guess some Atheists can be viewed like that, but their are Christians that called me obnoxious and said I was being downgrading, or trying to downplay their beliefs, but that was actually far from the case. When I try to explain that...they don't wanna continue the convo.
And the religious aren't?
"i believe in something". Now that's a ringing endorsement. Wowee.
I've been spat on in two different churches for just being gay. And no I look like an average guy.
@@MrKit9 The "Good Book" demands we don't eat prawns, multiple times too, but nobody seems to mind breaking that "Divine instruction". No, homosexuals, that the Good Book barely mentions, that they do obey.
@@MrKit9 Sorry to read what you endured. Just wrong. Cheers.
I never said that, just that there are a lot of arrogant atheists and I wanna call them out on it
Pretty damn sure no mother would ever want her grown child to actually be born again.
Medfore
One comedian shared how each year his dad gave him a birthday gift of a buck for every year since his birth. When his sister annouced she was "born again" she received one dollar on her birthday.
You’ve never been to a re-birthing ceremony.
I sure wouldn't. It was so damn bloody and sticky the first time around.. I remember it like yesterday. Yuck!
"Jesus will come again...I'll probably fake it." --Anonymous
I was a christian for 45 years. Fundamentalist education for 12 years. Worked as a Church Musician for 20 more years, I began to question and study and educate myself and became an Atheist 20 years ago. When you have a religious group or person who will not question the dogma or origins or their faith then they like operating in the dark. As long as it's dark they can claim that anything exists there. They can operate like fools if they wish but don't use your faith to constrict MY life. If someone cuts their hand off yet claims that the hand is really there, do you put up with such nonsense or might you mock them? You will never find a greater collection, generally speaking,of liars, sub-intellectuals, hypocrites and angry Christers than in a religious sect. I speak from experience. You make your own decisions.
@Barthelemy you for proving that christians are mentally ill. I went to a Private religious school for 11 years. Daily formal study chapel, youth group, mission studies and on and on. I was a church musician off and on for 20 years. Like so many christians you lie with ease and comfort. Disgusting!
If there's a 'christian' heaven, I'll gladly choose the alternative.
The BBQs in Hell are da bomb. Satan sure can roast a good hog
I'm actually writing a story where an abused woman was killed by her husband and she had to be married to the guy in heaven too which is super fucked up.
Are you sure about that? 🤔
Why are y'all miserable? god is the existence of Love. Everyone believes Love exists. But This is A page devoted to.. complaining about something...you see as irrelevant. So irrelevant...you constantly talk about it... Awesome.
@@damianedwards2327 that's stupid. Whether or not christianity is true, Christians so exist, and their actions have an effect, same as everyone else.
I've been an Athiest now for well over 10 years and I get so tired of being called haughty all the time. Just left and right.
Mostly right, I'd guess.
Ya some people are pissed when they realize they have been duped.
“The comments section kinda proved my point.”
Meaning I didn’t like criticisms pointing out my bias I’m not considering.
I hate it. It sucks. Do not point out my bias. But it does do me good sometimes. It broadens my knowledge of myself. But I do not like it. And I don't think theists like it either.
@Michael theists can be assholes, too 🤷♀️ way to jump to conclusions
@@maggiefoster6295 You're right: nobody really likes having their biases pointed out---theists or atheists. Thanks for the honesty of admitting you are biased, because most atheists seem to take a special pride in pretending that they don't have biases.
@Michael And so you also prove the caller's point: many atheists feel the need to launch insulting, personal attacks, rather than sticking to attacking an argument. Like I once heard, "If someone can't deal with your argument, then they will deal with you."
Honestly, isn't that a deflection? What if the comments did prove the caller's point? Is that really so hard to concede? It's really hard to get around that now, after Jen and Vi La basically admitted that the caller is right. It's the elephant in the room that atheists in these forums refuse to admit. I am truly fascinated to see how atheists deny this, when it is beyond obvious, that is, how quickly, they insult, deny, and attack the theist rather than the argument.
I'm very proud of Vi with this one. She handled it perfectly!
Very fair and reasonable 👏
They/them*
Don’t assume the gender of others without first asking & being respectful.
@@macysondheim This was three years ago my friend, you gotta find something better to do than to try and correct a years old random comment. At this point they were still going by female and non-specific pronouns anyway.
I had a group of friends as a teenager, long long time ago , one was a Christian , they all came around to my house , as we were poor , my parents house wasn't very nice , he was the only friend who made comments and judged me, on my upbringing , my other friends liked me for me, that has always stuck with me , and rightly or wrongly I have never had time for religious people and avoid them at all costs.
Please please please learn to use proper punctuation. I thought I had a stroke when trying to read this
you say that like it's a good thing.
So in other words some atheists have sort of a... holier-than-thou attitude, eh?
Wonder if any other theism-related groups ever get like that...
You're deflecting 😏
@@blucatt1k Not necessarily. He'd be deflecting if the statement applied to him/her. However they are just pointing out that because some atheists are like this, doesn't mean all are, just like not all theists are this way, but there are countless examples of that too
@@blucatt1k May be reread the comment? Where do you think the phrase Holier than thou came from?
I made the same ironic comment. Hehehe
One thing they should of touched on is reciprocal condescension. There are many atheist that turn condescending in response to theists saying “god created the universe” or “evolution has been proven wrong”. The thing theists say often don’t compare to atheists. Saying you know the creator of the universe personally is another level of arrogance in my mind.
Well ask yourself why someone speaking with some common sense, logic & reasoning would make you feel stupid.
So the Talk Heathen hosts are wrong? They admitted the caller was correct. Vi La used the word "insufferable" to describe the atheists in these RUclips forums. She is right.
@@wordwarrior2350 If it is all pure opinion, ss you claim, with no right and wrong, then your very reply to me is not "right." Got it?
@@wordwarrior2350 So you can't even say if the hosts are right or wrong? Seems like an easy way out.
@@wordwarrior2350 You said you don't use RUclips to say what you think yet you reply and write long posts saying what you think? Do you see how self refuting that is?
How can a person post comments without saying what they think? It's okay to admit that you use RUclips to say what you think.
Rude? I'm happier than a clam that I live in a time when I can reject your god assertions without being killed for that rejection by people whose feelings are hurt by my rejection of their god assertion.
I really think the people that lost the power to force me to believe in their god are the ones that are angry about that loss of power.
Post post-deconvertion happens to also be the first time they hear others claim they have lost their morality, soul, and so on.
If someone tells me I am going to roast in hell for being a gay atheist I will get angry. I used to be angry and shred theists in comments, but got bored. Also not angry anymore. I am trying to experience the reality around me. These videos helped me so much once I decided to deconstruct...thank you.
They're always "the victim" 🙄
I’ve been an Atheist my entire life, never went to Church or even read one page of any religious text. I grew up in the South and I am 51 years old now. Never even came close to believing and my family growing up didn’t either. So my experience was different.
The rise of social media had changed my outlook some. First; I remember connecting with someone I had known years prior who was a creationist and didn’t believe in Evolution. It was my first time interacting with not just someone who thought that, but I had never even heard of Creationist before. I just remember being perplexed by the notion he was presenting and wondering what happened to him.
The second thing that happened was I was suddenly exposed to fellow Atheists for the first time. I had never knowingly had a conversation with a fellow Atheist before. I was able to listen and watch Atheist content and it allowed me to further solidify things I had only offhandedly considered before but never bothered to have structured arguments for.
The third thing is that people I was reconnecting with and I had cared about and at least thought I knew; were suddenly posting things that were explicitly offensive to Atheists in a general sense and I saw a side of them I had never been exposed to before.
My wife one said she didn’t like arguing with me because I always thought I was right. I responded to her; Honey, if I didn’t think I was right, why would I be arguing with you in the first place? Of course I think I’m right.
On the meme thing. I see loads of them. I even save some that I think are funny. I might share one with a fellow Atheist because I think they will appreciate it. What I don’t do is try to alienate my entire friends group (or a significant portion of) by being explicitly offensive. So I tend not to publicly share such stuff. I wish believers were as curious. I also don’t go to Christian facebook groups trying to pick fights either.
Now everyone has bad moments where they might not be acting their best and get snarky. And sometimes people just take something you said the wrong way. Maybe you worded it in a way that was clumsy or something and could easily be taken the wrong way, or maybe people were just looking to see what they wanted to see in your comment to start an argument.
Theist: god brought the hurricane to punish the gays.
Me: that's not true.
Theist: you're so condescending.
Me: OK.
And that's how most of my interaction with theists go.
How do you know, that it is not true?
@@jitakyoei4548 :how do you know it wasn't Krishna or zeus?
@@dalemsilas8425 I don't. That's the point. That's why you evaded my question. You countered an unprovable claim (god did it) with an equally unprovable claim (god did not do it) and adopted the burden of proof, which you cannot fulfill because you can't prove that god did not somehow cause it.
So now there are two people with equally unprovable claims shouting at each other, how wrong the other person is. You gained nothing.
To me the commenters on Christian apologists videos are the biggest arrogant trolls, wont address anything ever they just start preaching and say you’re going to hell.
I agree, fellow 1113 guy.
This entire show disproves his point 😂
If you going to preach your going to be preached right back to .
I'm just starting to get through the angry atheist stage. It's not been a mentally tranquil year 😂
What a great conversation, on all sides!
What sticks in Haydens craw is that some people ask him to show evidence for these gods that he randers on about and he just cant handle the fact that he cant, so that make them "rude".
Many theist hear what they want to hear not what I am actually saying.
It’s also important to remember that just because somebody behaves in a certain way doesn’t mean you can dismiss what they say. Somebody could very arrogantly explain orbital mechanics to me and I might not like how that person makes me feel but that doesn’t make them wrong about orbital mechanics it just makes them not very friendly
Sometimes hard to swallow but no less true for that.
when I read the title of the vid, I was expecting a different kind of call
It is not just new atheists, basically all new converts that act haughty and superior. Try talking to a new mormon. They act very superior and better than everyone else.
dunning-kruger effect, think that all of a sudden they know everything and are always right.
real knowledge and wisdom takes time
New atheists are likely to be more angry upon discovering that it's all been a lie, and now the people closest are turning their backs.
This would piss anyone off.
Its like when you learned santa wasn't real and everyone knew. Except your not 5, its not cute, and everyone treats you like your dumb for noticing. So ya, some people get a little angry. It would be weirder if they didn't.
@@awesomesause except no one insist that God is real, except theist. There is no one saying live your life how I say to please your imaginary Santa, or you will be tortured for all eternity. No real connection between God and Santa.
@@kenchristiansen2080 well besides the fact they are fictional. The similar thing would also be the naughty and nice list, but unlike santa who only gives coal as a gift, you get eternal damnation by god.
As an atheist and skeptic, I am deemed inferior for not accepting the unfounded claims that theists sloppily present. The superiority they invariably possess is embedded in the message they tell themselves. They are a royal priesthood, a holy nation. They are saved from the damnation I am supposedly facing. They rejoice in the obviously problematic plan of justice being meted out for those of us who can't allow themselves to be put in a state where faith trumps reason.
At some point, in certain situations, when the theist have gone above and beyond in performing mental gymnastics to deny an atheist position of being rational, being justified in their atheism just as equal as they being justified in their theism, that's when I feel I loose emphathy to a varing degree for that individuals ethics and moral compass, thus maybe seeming arrogant. Something I can definitely work on
I *love* that they freely admit there are insufferable atheists (I was one myself in my uni days) and even atheist groups that are obnoxious.
Partly because when theists are talking about other theists who have done bad things, it's usually 'misinterpreting the Bible' or 'not a true Christian'.
Shows honesty if you ask me.
I think most people who become Atheists start off really Militant at first, and then mellow with age. That's how it was with me.
atheists n marxists. lol im both
Who wouldn't be insulted when someone tries to sneak a sales pitch into a conversation? Behavior like that deserves kickback regardless of the topic.
Okay, I'm late to the party...well done! Brilliantly played!
Well done.
To this day many comments just make his point. Kneejerk atheist responses that utterly fail to look in a mirror.
It was a _great_ subject to raise and a great civil discussion of the topic. On a personal note, this touches on one of the reasons I left christianity. We called ourselves 'a peculiar people', supposedly different from the 'fallen' world. Yet in all my years as an orthodox then evangelical christian, it became clear that 'christians' are just...people. People who believe a thing and call themselves a thing.
Good, bad whatever - there's no difference at all. So why should I keep believing in fantasies?
Every person is born an atheist...that is, with NO religious beliefs (or any other kind, for that matter). Whatever flavor of 'faith' (a pisspoor substitute for critical thinking) that one embraces is from parental, authoritarian or peer pressure along with the culture into which one happens to be born.
Virtually all ADULT atheists are former believers who managed to rouse their inherent intellectual abilities and seriously investigate what they were conditioned to accept as 'truth' which is why they invariably know far more about the tenets and dogma of the institution from which they managed to escape than those who remain captive to it.
The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
When I look at the complexity of the human anatomy I can't help but feel there's more and maybe we just can't except it..
@@jee6213 So you think the human body wired and routed its self without intelligence guiding it? Was responsible for all the materials involved and then gave itself consciousness? I wonder how many non believers ever have really thought hard about it.
@@tylercampbell6365
I think about it frequently.
The evidence is all around in extant animals.
Evolution is like an onion (or was it an ogre? Oh well...).
Each new improvement is like a layer upon existing improvements. There are clues as to the eye's evolution in Planaria, jellyfish, snails, nautilus and squids.
The digestive system as well can be traced in such critters as Planaria, earthworms, fish and so on.
The muscular skeletal system started out as merely pulsating muscle tissue, then endo- and exoskeleton evolved, providing anchoring points for more complex muscle tissues. Bone replaced cartilage as a way to store extra Ca+ in Ca+ poor environment s - ie fresh water.
Everything evolves in stages, layers.
There is no eraser; evolution cannot go back and try something new. No mulligans.
Hence, evolution is layered
When you say that virtually all atheists are former believers, what are you basing that on? I live in the UK and almost everyone I know was never a believer.
@@tylercampbell6365 of course there is more but it isnt supernatural. We are discovering new knowledge all the time about the body... so far NOBODY has ever mentioned "oh look, this organ proves god"
Everyone who disagrees with you can appear haughty, loud and rude. It does not necessarily exist in the transaction, more often it is reverberations in the mind of the offended. Insight is hard.
Nono, that may be true in some circumstances but if you do not recognise that there are insufferably arrogant atheists, who behave that way on the basis that they are atheists, then you are either being purposefully blind to keep some notion of purity about your peers, woefully unexperienced with observing many atheists interacting with theists, or you simply are one of those insufferable atheists.
My sister said she believes in god because "it makes her happy". I explained to her that being a hermit and drinking until you pass out most nights is not generally as being happy.
Atheist here,
I get sick and tired of listening to garbage arguments for a God. If you suggest I "look at the trees" or "what happens if you are wrong?" stuff I want to engage in an interesting conversation, but if the level of conversation is very, very basic, I just do not want to converse with you. This happens with just about any field of interest, but there are so many honestly ignorant Theists that think I have done nothing to examine my beliefs.
In response to Hayden, as has already been said by a bunch of people, online forums such as these RUclips comment sections can be pretty harsh, but there's a LOT of elements involved, and it sure as hell isn't one sided. I can list quite a few Theists who frequent these pages who are fantastically rude, condescending, arrogant assholes.
Part of the issue is that Theists are coming to these forums telling us we're not only wrong to not believe in God, but that we deserve eternal punishment because of it...and that we're also immoral, evil, as bad as murderers....because we don't believe. I've been called a murderer by a Theist here on youtube just this weekend, because I "reject God" and that makes me exactly the same as Cain and just as guilty of murder. Or something. Theists have told me I should kill myself for not believing. And on the less obnoxious end of the scale, I've had YEC's tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about in relation to the very subject I have a fucking University Degree in (Environmental Biology). So yeah, stuff like that tends to be pretty damn annoying. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but when they go over the line, I'm not going to hold back. And why should I?
And I have no reason to think that these experiences are unique to me.
So when Hayden comes up against "Angry Atheists", there's the element of them/us being pissed because we spent much of our lives being told things that we now don't believe, and we're getting that same crap thrown in our faces by smug Theists who take actual pleasure in telling us they thing we're going to hell.....
.....and we're just done with it.
Theism has a position whereby it's considered "rude" to question it or openly oppose it, so I bet it seems aggressive and nasty when we do...because Theists are used to having it their way.
Well, not any more.
Completely disagree with the hosts. People might think you're an asshole for pointing out someone's beliefs are nonsense but that mockery may be the thing they need to knock some sense in.
If someone genuinely believes in a flat earth or santa or voodoo, you better believe I am going to mock the shit out of their beliefs and I make no apologies for it.
As awesome as it is to hear two witty, passionate, intelligent women talk about a myriad of subjects and take on some of the most complex topics possible... I really think Jen needs to "reign in" her passion and not cut Vi off at every opportunity something pops up or perhaps switch chairs.. not a real criticism more, it's something that comes up on the other Atheist experience shows where they decided there needs to be a CLEAR lead presenter (aka "host") that specifically gives the "guest" (even if they are considering themselves "co-hosts") an intentional segue-way to make a comment or make a point for efficiencies sake. It's difficult to follow two trains of thought even when they tend to agree most of the time and it's a little jarring.
You both are fantastic though.. I love listening to you both. Just perhaps not at the same time 😂🤷♂️
She's a friggin' bobblehead doll
I certainly can't and won't speak for all atheists but I do admit that I sometimes speak down to theists when they haven't taken the time to read their holy book and try and tell me to read it or start citing scriptures as if I hadn't read it which I have, several times. Some atheists do get annoyed because we have put in a lot of work and research into theology and philosophy and get annoyed by people who haven't but insist that they know better than you do. Another one of my favorites is when they say, "well you haven't been to my church" or "you haven't read or listened to this obscure or even well known person". Yeah atheists, myself included, can sometimes talk down to theists. It isn't that we necessarily know more than the theist but often we have put in more work than that person and get annoyed by the questions they ask or the things they assume we haven't thought about it considered. Most of the time, we have.
Vi, you are amazing!!
Lol I'm an atheist too but these comments are proving his point 😂
Ok, Vi and Jen! I won't expect a response but excellent conversation! All of you, but I'm glad of how you answered the caller, who was cool, too! I agree there is too much vitriol on line, it can be toxic. I try, as much as possible, to stay nice an respectful, especially if someone else doesn't. If it is sometimes a bit sarcastic, well that's usually only at the worst. Though I have more often, with a bit of simple kindness, gotten an apparent asshole to turn a complete 180 and we can have a good conversation. And, I've always ended my comments, in case it turn out to be my last one ever, with, Love and Peace, though I now do it with emojis! 👏💖✌️🎃
Well, I think it's sometimes true. If a believer doesn't think he's superior than me (in one regard), and I don't think I'm superior to him (in one regard), why are we even bothering to communicate? However, there's often a no-win situation. I find that try as I might, with some religious people, any forceful (i.e. effective) contradiction is interpreted as an insult, that I'm saying they're stupid, etc. I really try to be polite, and rather than being drawn into a fruitless argument, asking them, say, to look at something online that contradicts what they're saying, and then come back if they want. Common responses: "that's so rude!", or a string of put downs. Does anyone have a better approach? I'm not optimistic. Trying to correct ANYTHING online -- even simple, clear things like grammar and spelling -- mortally offends many people.
At least he used the word ‘some’.
Yes but he didn't acknowledge that the hosts were part of the "some". It seemed to completely go over his head. These women treated him with plenty of respect and he didn't seem to notice because his mind was set on atheists being combative.
Firstly, THE most arrogant and intellectually condescending people I know or know of are religious. Tends to breed a superiority complex when you think you have the secret to the universe and the rest of time.
But yea, I see how it's kinda easy to seem smarter when you hold the correct position (withholding belief) and religious people are programmed to think you are the arrogant enemy. That's not my fault, and it's not my fault that my view is correct. You wouldn't say I'm arrogant for withholding my belief in any number of wild "theories" out there, because it is the correct view to do so.
I've had the exact opposite experience to this caller, he must be looking for fights. Even in my life, I've been in a sobriety group for 8 years and not one of them knows I'm an atheist while they preach about how necessary and important god and religion is. If anything, we need to be MORE arrogant. I just do not relate to this call or this caller.
Superiority is a human trait, theist, atheist or any other clasification you care to name. Some may see it more in Atheists, because that group have had religions of all sorts shoved down their throats, forever, and they are now becoming more confrontational because there now seems to be more openness regards the numbers of Atheists having a public voice.
Nice excuse you make for atheists . . .
@@aaronstypes4083 I don't have to make excuses for atheists or anyone else mate.
Just an opinion that could explain the "in your face" approach by some. Atheists have been threatened with death (at best) for thousands of years, and it is only fairly recently that this outcome has become less of a feature in some societies. Tis little wonder some atheists now are quite forceful in their opinions (Especially concerning religions).
@@douglaslatham9904 So that excuses it? Sorry but it sounds like you are excusing it.
@@aaronstypes4083 Some Christians and Muslims consider it arrogant for someone to calmly say "I don't believe in your God". They consider it disrespectful for someone, anyone, to dare disagree with them or their God (or rather their pastor or imam) but not at all disrespectful for them to disagree with someone else. That's just wrong. They see yelling at someone "You're going to Hell!" (knowing nothing about the recipient) as somehow a kindness, but a response of "No, I am not." as a rude, arrogant, possibly angry atheist refusing the good news, no matter how nicely spoken the rejection may be.
@@aaronstypes4083 atheist bad, christian good amirite?
Subscribed. I think Jen and Vi did a marvelous job of responding to this caller. Possibly related subject--until this morning, I had never heard the term, "intellectual bullying," when I saw a teacher use it in a resignation speech shown in the news. As far as I can tell, the term implies that anybody who displays competent knowledge of any subject is potentially liable to be seen as a bully who uses knowledge to silence or suppress the rights of those less informed. In other words, the kid who completes their homework assignment is disadvantaging those who have not. If this is a real thing, I assume that it has been, or will be, used against atheists or other skeptics. Since atheists are destined to win any argument with a theist, no matter how the outcome is described by the losers, does that mean all atheists are automatically bullies? I do not have the people skills that Jen and Vi displayed in this video, nor am I sure I would use them if I did. Any thoughts from other viewers?
You seem to have good people skills to me. Hang in there despite being challenged. They need to be challenged.
For one thing, don't lump all atheists together. Second, the same accusation can very easily be directed at many theists.
I don't fancy being born again.
My head is too big and I don't like being smacked.
I enjoyed the way this caller was handled. His argument was flawed since he was talking to two women that had a respectful conversation with him. I hoping he would acknowledge this but it seemed to completely go over his head. That was a clue about his mindset. I think he wants those angry conversations. When told that You Tube comments and other social media were places he could expect to find a lot of this type of dialogue, he happily said he would be participating, even to the point of giving his handle.
As a former Southern Baptist, when someone who does not share your faith is more verse in the Bible then a practicing Christian, it can come across as arrogant, but if some Christians knew their book and brought their A-game, it would be a fair conversation, and both would feel equally as arrogant. 😂 joking.
My two favorite intelligent heathen women.
Excellent response. Atheist fanatics can be as bad as religious fanatics.
This was handled masterfully
where can i buy those mexican veladoras with you guys's images from?
I think that are only prototypes for now.
I hear so many broken and damaged callers, under the boot of bad ideas or just arrogant about their claims of "I think", ......that I’ve decided to no longer leave “smarty pants” comments. I’ll try to be more charitable.
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.” ― Robert Anton Wilson
"Be Excellent To Each Other" (Bill & Ted)
But, Wow, sometimes it's not easy.
Yes,yes I so get the angry atheist but we learn and grow
I definitely get a sense that formerly religious folk that have turned atheist have a chip on their shoulder for feeling duped for years by their churches. The anger is like a projection of their grudge of feeling misguided. I identify with the idea of perennial wisdom being stored in all religious and spiritual narratives, but I was raised agnostic more or less.
It would be impossible for an atheist to be more obnoxious than most theists.
Then there's Richard Dawkins...
I really hope that's a tongue-in-cheek statement.
Agreed! Theists are RIGHTEOUS assholes
When someone realises they have been lied to all of their life and told they will burn in hell for all eternity for not believing those lies by people they trusted, it can make you a bit angry. It didn’t actually make me angry, I was just so relieved that it was all nonsense and then I felt so stupid for believing such nonsense in the first place. Now I can read the bible and have a good laugh about it all.
I find it both personally irritating and rather telling that this caller doesn't seem to realize that theists really are the source cause of 'loud atheists'. It's as if he can't see theists doing the same exact thing day in and day out.
Little knowledge of science makes one an atheist but in depth study makes one closer to Him..Francis Bacon
What scientific evidence do you have for God's existence?
It's a process of learning
Interesting that he called with two of the most chill hosts on the show.
I think Hitchens (and to a lesser degree Dawkins) are partially to blame as well. I didn't like them as a Christian, but I REALLY didn't like them as a non-believer. I'm only just now after like 10 years able to take them at all seriously.
I am no longer a Christian and am searching also. I’m leaning towards agnostic right now but not leaving atheist completely out. What I have noticed is a lot of hosts and guests on these shows do speak in more scientific “big” words. I find it condescending at times.
I re-read the first five books of the bible (New English version, but Ive read NIV, JKV, and NJKV). If the individual described as "god" sat down with a psychiatrist or psychologist he would be diagnosed as a Dark Triad personality! The Narcissistic, Anti-social and Borderline traits are ALL there and repeated over and over. How could our ancestors be dumb enough to swap Thor for a psychotic stalker with endless and capricious rules?
I tend to agree with caller on some of that atheists I have spoken to. I myself am atheist and they seem to imply I joined some kind of club. That I cuss like a sailor. Drink . Go out and party. I mean not saying thats ok or not just not my kind of lifestyle. Some are as rude as ever.
These two are pretty good.
I do think that what the hosts are saying is definitely true and there are definitely people on both side who are crazy and trying to trigger;however, I do think the hosts are also ignoring(or purposily not mentioning which I can kinda understand why plus it seems like they may have discussed it with the previous caller) that a surpringly large ammount of theists are more likely to simply take something a atheist is saying as negative or aggressive even if it is not meant to be also known as the "radical atheist" thing in the sense when a theist comments something about their religion unreleated it is okay, but when a atheist slightly suggests a idea or something the response is that "look its another radical atheist attacking us" even if it was just a question out of curiousity or even perhaps worry that a friend is overly quickly converting to something they know little about.
Atheist may often seem to be rude but they don't threaten people with "you're gonna burn in hell for eternity!!"
Which is worst being rude or threatening people because they do not choose to believe your mythology?
This sounds a lot like the guy who called into Atheist Experience a lot a few years ago... that guy from the evangelical church there in Austin?
It's not.
Much love to Jen and Vi La for honestly admitting that the caller has a valid point about atheists on these forums being angry and insulting to theists. Eric, the other host, recently called atheists who use these forums, "Keyboard warriors who are full of vitriol because they can hide under a fake screen name." Kudos and love to Eric as well.
@Gary Thistle Hmmm. I wonder why the Talk Heathen hosts acted like atheist anger is somewhat unique to them. So much so that Vi said that she, like most atheists, went through an "angry phase." Is she imagining things?
@Gary Thistle Yes, it is clear that you feel betrayed and abused, maybe even victimized. It explains a lot. Thanks.
Perhaps Hayden might consider what it is about what he is saying that gets such a reaction?
Girl on the left needs to adjust her laugh a bit she sounds like Lorraine from old Mad TV
Hayden sounds familiar, so I looked up the previous time he called in and rewatched. He had a pretty poor argument for why he became religious, and said "like" all the time (probably due to being nervous). A lot of the criticism on that vid was valid and addressed his argument, but there were also people being disparaging about his habit of saying "like" the whole time, and people making the "no true scotsman" claim.
He doesn't like to be talked down to. So what.
I have had equal experiences, But the other way.
Christians Who have the attitude that they are 'of coarse' better People. I an 'just' a godless heathen and I don't know better.
Because they believe they have god on their side they look down their nose at me and condesend.
Who has been going up the pulpit for hundreds of years, spewing hatred, calling ordinary folk sinners and threatening them with hell and torture, then taking their money and buggering their children?
It's okay Hayden. We aren't all Dillahunty.
That is one of the main reasons why i dont identify as an atheist. I also doubt God, i also doubt religion, but i am not like THOSE people. I usualy dont get haughty, and even when i do, i try to do it in friendly and opened-minded way. And sure, there are some other reasons... such as my belief in possibility of God, soul, spiritual and esoteric things, and also my doubt in epistemolgic tools. I rather identify as agnostic but that label is also not perfect, i guess that only label that fits me is eclectic (perhaps also heretic and pluralist.)
Taylor swift and I are destined to be together. This belief makes me wanna be a better person.
Why is it some foolish, unsubstantiated beliefs, we're allowed to mock and others are supposed to be held sacred?
The crap about "we should respect all beliefs" needs to die out. Harmful, dangerous beliefs should be openly mocked. It's how we learn what's socially acceptable.
Yeah, 'cause that worked out really well in the '40s, didn't it?
Sorry bro, Taylor Swift is destined to be with me, right here me.
@@novatare if I said the Taylor Swift thing on a first date or a job interview there'd be a social price to pay.
Only the most precious would mistake that for persecution. Well, or the most christian 🤭
If you're religious just picture how hard it would be to talk to a grown ass adult who believes in Santa Claus. It would be pretty difficult to talk to that person without sounding condescending.
Senpai notices us?! 😳 Oh no. I'm... So sorry...
There's nothing rude about telling people that you never met, that they were not "real "Christians and they are not real "atheists " and also there's nothing wrong in telling people they know what's gonna happen to them when they die."
I understand that it must be difficult to talk to someone, who is not afraid to go to hell.
I think where some of it comes from is not science but logic. Science can’t disprove god - not does it try much of the time.
But I’ve clearly pointed out the logical fallacies of theist positions only to have them flatly deny or just move on.
I doubt many of us would say “you shouldn’t believe xyz” but I think many of us would agree that it would be beneficial to understand it’s a belief without evidence and often with no logical basis .. and with much logic being able to cast it in the light of being unlikely.
So if we’re chatting and you do the equivalent of telling me 1+1=3, I’m going to (nicely) call you out on it.
But I do generally agree that people on both sides can take it too far, without a doubt.
"I doubt many of us would say 'you shouldn’t believe xyz'"
You should see the atheists on Reddit lol
This behavior isn't exclusive to religion. Lots of other parts of society have similar behavior. Car owners, sports, video games, art, music, travel, restaurants, rival schools, movie reviews, fashion, etc. all have people who are boisterous.
Funny title.
I find that religious people are more often than not pompous, haughty, loud, and rude.
From my personal 1st person experiences anyways.
I'm less delusional does that make me better off? I say so, I don't spend time worrying about nonsense.
I understand that some atheist are just not that nice in conversation. But i also understand very well why that is.
I cant say i'm always nice and pleasant towards theists mainly because of my experiences. Its the dishonesty that always comes up. And the threat of hell angers me even more, people who believe in a real hell and still worship a monster that allows it to exist are inherently evil and immoral to me. And thats not even talking about the harm it causes in the real world.
But also generally atheist are more knowledgable about the topics that are adressed and realize why the beliefs held and "reasons" are really bad. And we have heared it all a thousand times before. The same shit every time over and over again.